45% of Americans want Bush impeached

[GeraldFord]

Then what exactly does warrant impeachment? Where do you draw the line? What do you have to do in order to be held accountable? These people who were not truly elected to begin with have created a horrible disastrous war based on lies.

What do you think someone needs to do before the people say enough is enough?

Accountability.

Accountable for what?

Being a poor leader?? Being incompetent? Sucking at their jobs?

That's why they get 4 year terms and we have another election.? That's how they're held accountable for stuff like that.? The party has certainly been held accountable (see the mid term results) and are floundering going into '08.? The Neo-Con movement is on lifesupport at this point.... I think history will certainly hold this administration accountable, too.

Impeachment is for those in office who have committed "high crimes and misdemeanors".? To me, that means done something illegal.? So far, as of right now, we don't have proof positive that's been done....all we have is speculation, anecdotal evidence, and some guesswork with Bush.? With Cheney, you have a tiny bit more...but the wasp nest you'd have to weave through to get anything concrete would probably take a Herculean (and very LONG) effort.? Again, you MIGHT be able to draw up articles of impeachment based on that, but......not on the most solid of foundations.? And then you get into EXACTLY what I said you would: He said/she said.? And if the dems fail (since that's where the articles would come from) the political backlash could, potentially, be HUGE.? Why?? When they can simply wait out the next 18 months and very likely take the white house and possibly a bigger slice of the legislature?

Look, I "get" the angry thing.? But I think calling for impeachment is based more on that emotion, and the feeling of almost "betrayal" of the American people by this administration (although the American people did a good job betraying themselves by reelecting this admin), than on anything really concrete.? Again, I get that.? But the time for revenge, or whatever it is people are seeking from impeachment, is long past.? The country is in shambles (relatively speaking), in the middle of a wrongheaded war, and has basically succeeded from the world with our isolationist foreign policy in regards to much of the free world (the "we'll do it whether you like it or not" attitude has killed us).? And the fact of the matter is, impeachment isn't going to solve any problems.

It's time for us to start counting down the days until the current turducken is out of office, and for Congress to minimize his influence as much as possible.? It's time for them to use their "balance" in the checks and balances.? Yes, it likely means 18 more months of Iraq, and all the crap that goes with it.? ?But impeachment MIGHT (and I stress might) cut 6 months off that...maybe.? Likely not, because that time frame is based on only impeaching Bush.....which means Cheney would be in office, and I doubt things would get better.? You impeach them both.....and their terms are over before you get a "verdict".

You gain, really, nothing by impeachment except a sense of satisfaction or revenge.? It's just not worth it.? It's not worth the resources you'd have to commit, which are better used in other places.? It's not worth the time you'd have to spend, which is better spent in other places, and it's not worth the political capital that would need to be risked, that could better be risked in other endeavors.? That's the reality of the situation.? I agree, it's not ideal...but it's playing with the hand we've been delt in the game we've been playing the past 7 years.

At the very least there should be impeachment hearings--to see if Bush did do something illegal that he could be impeached on.

And it is not about "revenge." As I stated before, it's about accountability. Maybe future presidents will think twice before they start wars based on lies, if they think they will have to face a consequence.

[stolat]

They could start by looking into the Florida voting debacle that ensured Bush got into power in the first place.

[pilferk]

At the very least there should be impeachment hearings--to see if Bush did do something illegal that he could be impeached on.

Senate Judiciary Hearings (which is what I think you're talking about) might occur....but there would have to be some very surprising evidence and testimony presented...stuff we've not been privy to so far..for it to go any further than that.  And we may see them before the end of GW's term.  Like I said previously: If you actually uncover evidence that a crime was comitted, then impeachment HAS to proceed forward.  Barring that.....it's just not a worthwhile pursuit.

And it is not about "revenge." As I stated before, it's about accountability. Maybe future presidents will think twice before they start wars based on lies, if they think they will have to face a consequence.

You keep saying it, but what you're asking them to be held accountable FOR (being incompetent and being poor leaders) is outside the scope of the instrument you're asking to be used to HOLD THEM accountable.  That smacks of revenge, to me.  It's not about justice, it's about meeting out any form of punishment you can think of simply to do so because you're disgusted.  You want them "held accountable" by any means you can grasp at because you're pissed off.  I get that sentiment.  I just don't think it's workable to do it.

 What you're suggesting would be like arresting Paul Pressler, formerly of The Gap, because he was an awful CEO (something Gap sharholders would probably like to do, I might add).  He didn't do anything illegal, underhanded, or deceptive.  He was just very bad.  The Gap board and shareholders were pissed.......so he was fired (akin to being "voted out of office").

 I'm disgusted, too, I might add....and I agree: there should have been some accountability....back in 2004.  You'll have to take up WHY there WASN'T with the voters. As I said during that election process:  Bush is a VERY bad "CEO" for this country, provenly bad...and he should be "fired".  The voters disagreed.  Such is democracy.....and such is hindsight now.  The electoral process is SUPPOSED to be where the accountability you're asking for is meted out to poor candidates, poor leaders, and those showing gross incompetence.

[pilferk]

They could start by looking into the Florida voting debacle that ensured Bush got into power in the first place.

What happened in Florida was a travesty...moreso because we'll never know the ACTUAL results.

But I'm not sure you can assign any sort of legal "blame" for that on GW.  Jeb, maybe (who should have let someone, anyone, else make the decisions on that whole process), if you can prove tampering. 

Really though, it was almost 7 years ago.  He was reelected this term.....and not by anything "shady" either.  The voters made their bed....and the world is being made to lie in it.  Now we just have to deal with the lumps, broken springs, stained pillowtop, etc until we can all buy a new mattress.  Sucks, but it's pretty much the only realistic choice we have.

Congress just needs to do their job and exile him to "lame duck" status and marginalize him. 

[freedom78]

And it is not about "revenge." As I stated before, it's about accountability. Maybe future presidents will think twice before they start wars based on lies, if they think they will have to face a consequence.

I'd like to believe this, but after the President immediately prior to Bush was impeached for lying about a BJ, you'd think Presidents would come in believing there is a pretty low threshold for impeachment...WELL below lying to start a war.

Really though, it was almost 7 years ago.  He was reelected this term.....and not by anything "shady" either.  The voters made their bed....and the world is being made to lie in it.  Now we just have to deal with the lumps, broken springs, stained pillowtop, etc until we can all buy a new mattress.  Sucks, but it's pretty much the only realistic choice we have.

I quite enjoyed that analogy...especially the stained pillowtop. 

[pilferk]

I quite enjoyed that analogy...especially the stained pillowtop. 

Thanks!

You know, these threads aren't nearly as "fun" anymore.  Now we have two anti-administration posters arguing how best to deal with the administrations failings.

2 years ago, this would have been a free for alll, with at least a FEW people jumping to GW's defense.  Note the deafening silence that has ensued....

I wonder if those people who voted for Bush are questioning their OWN role in "holding him accountable".

[freedom78]

I quite enjoyed that analogy...especially the stained pillowtop. 

Thanks!

You know, these threads aren't nearly as "fun" anymore.  Now we have two anti-administration posters arguing how best to deal with the administrations failings.

2 years ago, this would have been a free for alll, with at least a FEW people jumping to GW's defense.  Note the deafening silence that has ensued....

I wonder if those people who voted for Bush are questioning their OWN role in "holding him accountable".

Yeah, if the conservatives on the board are in this thread, it's a few pages back, by now.  I voted for Bush the FIRST time, but since that vote was cast in Indiana, and he probably didn't really win in Florida, I can safely say that my vote wasn't anything close to decisive. 

I must be a huge dork, because I often think how fun it would be to live in a swing state.

BTW, with what substance is the pillow stained with, in your analogy?  I thought about asking, earlier, but was afraid it would kill the upbeat mood if you answered "Blood." 

[pilferk]

BTW, with what substance is the pillow stained with, in your analogy?  I thought about asking, earlier, but was afraid it would kill the upbeat mood if you answered "Blood." 

Multiple bodily fluids and excretions.  Blood, urine, sweat, shit.....maybe some semen and vomit.  There's so many stains, at this point, it's hard to tell.  Think of a mattress you might see under a bridge.....

I'm thinking of the pillowtop more as an analogy to "our" reputation, btw.  But I suppose you could use that particular "piece of the mattress" for whatever "piece" of this fiasco you want.

[freedom78]

BTW, with what substance is the pillow stained with, in your analogy?  I thought about asking, earlier, but was afraid it would kill the upbeat mood if you answered "Blood." 

Multiple bodily fluids and excretions.  Blood, urine, sweat, shit.....maybe some semen and vomit.  There's so many stains, at this point, it's hard to tell.  Think of a mattress you might see under a bridge.....

I'm thinking of the pillowtop more as an analogy to "our" reputation, btw.  But I suppose you could use that particular "piece of the mattress" for whatever "piece" of this fiasco you want.

If the pillowtop is our (American) reputation around the world, then I think the stain has to be semen, from a premature ejaculation.  Why?  Because what could be more harmful to someone's reputation?  Especially in a world filled with gabby women.  Currently, we're in that "Uh, sorry, that's never happened before" phase of dealing with this Presidency.

BTW, I think we should both pat ourselves on the back for hijacking this thread and turning it into a discussion of bodily fluids.

[stolat]

Draft him and send him to Iraq

[Krispy Kreme]

I must be a huge dork, because I often think how fun it would be to live in a swing state.
?

Fuck, I live in Texas. It means that my vote does not count at all. The state, my city, my county, is going Republican no matter what (unless  you live in far south Texas  which is all Mexican and Democratic). I  would love to live  in swing state where one's vote actually mattered. As it  is, there is no incentive to vote  because the result is foreordained.

[Bodhi]

for those in the know, how likely is this to happen?

who gives a shit...the guy is out of office next year anyway....what a waste of time....

[fuckin crazy]

for those in the know, how likely is this to happen?

who gives a shit...the guy is out of office next year anyway....what a waste of time....

It seems like a conservative would be interested in the Rule of Law, or the remains of that principle anyway.

If I'm not mistaken, you worked for JPL. What is your take on his attack on the sciences?

[Booker Floyd]

the guy is out of office next year anyway....

Much to your chagrin, considering how much youve defended him.