Should VR call it quits and return to their side projects?

[alex420gnr]

No doubt velvet revolver has revitalized the public career of the guys - they are more visible now and getting bigger gigs than they could with snakepit, Loaded, Neurotic Outsiders etc.

Scott Weiland will always do fine either solo or with STP (I prefer him solo myself)
Slash will pretty much always do decent as far as a following
Duff can't draw huge crowds, but he may be the most talented of the bunch (plays guitar, bass, drums, vocals, songwriter)

Matt is getting the best exposure has has had in years

Dave is clearly profiting the most (fame-wise, artistically, and financially)

I have seen the following side-projects:
Snakepit 2.0 - better than VR
Loaded - WAY better than VR
STP 2X
Scott solo 2X
Izzy 2X with Duff in Japan

If there was no VR we would have snakepit, loaded, izzy being able to tour, STP or scott, and perhaps N.O

My question is whether you would prefer 5 times as many bands which are definitely better or one mediocre band

btw - I have seen VR twice and was not impressed

discuss

[RichardNixon]

No, no, and hell no.

[Carlos_f_Rose]

mmm I had liked to listen more music of  Slashs snakepit Version 1, they were the real deal, even better than some GNR songs. No GNR song can beat neither can I by Snakepit in my opinion.

VR rules!

[badapple81]

Velvet Revolver aren't great (good but not great).. but they are still tonnes better than any of the side projects.

So no.

[Jonathan]

Should VR call it and quit?

NO.

[eirian]

That's an interesting question.

Personally I'm not as impressed by VR mainly due to Scott, I don't particularly think his vocals tie in well with the music that they play. And in the VH1 Behind the Music programme the music when they were jamming was certainly a lot heavier (and to my mind better) than what appeared on Contraband. Plus what will Scott write about now he's clean? Flowers in the Garden? I might be wrong but the music doesn't seem to have the gut wrenching personal feeling about it that gnr did...everyone there played with their heart and soul (and i saw them loads of times) in this outfit it seems to be lacklustre at the best of times. Going through the motions...where are Slash's solos? MIA?

I still wonder if they wil produce a second album, they cut short the European tour in July last year, cos they were 'desparate' to get back into the studio...well...its more than 6 months later (and Duff had said that they wanted a Christmas release) sooo.....we might not even see a second album.

So...I would love to see Slash's Snakepit again...and Duff seems to be relegated to the background, even Axl gave him a song to sing. If VR folded it would be great to see the individual guys on the road again.

Should VR quit? Possibly.

[Genesis]

You're joking right? 

[tomass74]

I'm sorry but if you think Snakepit version 2.0 is better than VR than I seriously question your ear for good rock n'roll... Anyway, VR calling it quits is the dumbest fucking idea I ever heard unless it meant a Gn'R reunion....

[badapple81]

That's an interesting question.

Interesting for about 2 seconds. It's a dumb question.

[lastroots]

Yeah, I would absolutely love that.

Snakepit was one of my fav bands around 2000 when I saw them live here in Cologne. Loaded kicked ass as well.
I never cared about Weiland or STP.

Yes, it would be great. They made great music back then, way better than that lame mainstream "rock" they're currently up to, with a lame singer and lame rehashes of old Guns songs.

Btw, I'm completely serious.


/lastroots

[GNR - CROATIA]

Who would post such a thread if not Axl himself?
Both Snakepits were extremly good.
However,  I would give Snakepit 2 advantage  both over Pit 1 and over some GNR stuff.
Snakepit 2 was pure rock n roll.
Loaded was average in my IMO.
Neurotics were great!
VR may not be as good as Snakepit 2 yet,  still,  they get under skin after a while (especially after you see them live).
Fact is,  statement that we would be having Snakepit 2 around or Loaded if it weren't for VR is completly wrong.
Slash broke up Snakepit 2 a year and a half before VR started.
Loaded did the same.
This is as best as it gets and it can only get better.
Although,  wouldn't mind having Gilby or at least Izzy around...

[C0ma]

I still wonder if they wil produce a second album, they cut short the European tour in July last year, cos they were 'desparate' to get back into the studio...well...its more than 6 months later (and Duff had said that they wanted a Christmas release) sooo.....we might not even see a second album.

Are you serious........ 6 months, because it has taken over six months to write-record-and release an album you are assuming it will never come out. Well what does that say for Chinese Democracy?

As far as trading VR in for individual side projects. I wouldn't. The core of this band has a ton of potential, I just think that Wieland is a terrible lyricist, and some of the music my have been dumbed down (by him or for him) durring the recording process. I would love it if Wieland decided to go off on his own and VR put together an album sort of like Santana with the various guest Vocalists. That way they could put out an album as sort of a try out for the "next" album. you could see how the band writes and plays with a variety of different singers. I think that process may point out the Scott was the weak link in the band...... Not that I don't like Scott, It's just that stylisticly he is very different than the direction this band should go in.

[Malcolm]

You know what would be really cool?Maybe just for a one time thing or a really short tour..Is to have all the bands on one bill with VR headlining..I mean Snakepit 1 could open,then Loaded or Neurotic,then STP,then Snakepit 2 then VR...all playing 5 or 6 songs except VR

[Butch Français]

heeeeeell no! none of their sideprojects were better or even equal to VR imo.

[Mikkamakka]

I think Snakepit 1.0 was much better than VR (and most of the GN'R stuff...), and I prefer even Snakepit 2.0 over VR, but those bands weren't successful and broke up. I'm happy that VR's around, they have the potential and I hope for a more blues-rock-based second album.

BTW Scott is a very good lyricist but Contraband is not his finest work. Now they'll have more time for the album, they have more material, know each other so it'll kick ass! 

[avesia]

VR is no "one mediocre band"

[mrlee]

should one of the best rock acts out at the moment quit, a band which are good and have some fame finally, a band conisting of members of favourite bands......quit? A band that if it wasnt for them, scott wouldnt be off drugs so y ou wouldnt have STP anyway now.....quit??

NO FUCKING WAY

[Smoking Guns]

I say Snakepit 1 with duff on Bass and Gilby on rythym.  THat was a bad ass album.  Back and Fourth again is an awesome song.

[Eazy E]

should one of the best rock acts out at the moment quit, a band which are good and have some fame finally, a band conisting of members of favourite bands......quit? A band that if it wasnt for them, scott wouldnt be off drugs so y ou wouldnt have STP anyway now.....quit??

NO FUCKING WAY

Seriously, I can't believe some people are actually answering this question with "Ehhhhh, I kind of miss Slash's Snakepit"

[Smoking Guns]

We just all miss the old slash.

[SourBaby]

Are you people crazy??? They shouldn't quit... The only reason why there record isn't out yet is because they have been on the road for a long time. They had ozzfest this summer.... you know the sort... I am not giving up.... It's not like it's been nine years

[babydolls]

i loved snakepit and stp - but really think VR rock.  they put out their first record pretty fast after cementing the line-up - but its still a good record and is great live.  Their second album should really show how they work, write and play together more.

my vote is totally with VR.  Both times i've seen them live - they've been fcn great.

strongly doubt that stp would be around even if VR never happened.

[Thorazine Shuffle]

VR have not reached their creative peak yet.? I think they will do so with the new album.? On the last album, they we're just trying to find their niche.? And with Scotts outside problems at the time, he couldn't put in 100%.? Nah, Contraband is ok, but I know that the new album will kick some serious ass.? So hell no, they should not, and will not call it quits.

[mikegiuliana]

it would be pretty damn hard for slash to ever duplicate his work with gnr, it's second to none and arguably the best guitar work of our generation

I hope vr sticks around then one day gnr reunites

[IzzyDutch]

I think when Slash would play with Duff and Izzy his guitarplaying would come very close to the GN'R stuff. Cause Slash would always take Izzy's stuff chordchanges and immediately blur out riffs and leads. Izzy would bring more out of Slashs's guitarplaying when it comes to riffs and solos then Scott.

Hell even Slash said the 10 track album they did with Izzy in "The Project" was the best instrumental GN'R album ever.

[makane]

All sideprojects together ain't worth Velvet Revolver.

[Rob]

I personally prefered Snakepit's first album to VR's first album.  That being said they definitely shouldn't hang it up.  VR are one of the biggest rock bands going right now.  Barring a GN'R reunion, Slash and Co. would be stupid to go their separate ways.  And they definitely have the potential to top any of their solo records with this upcoming album.

[SumoWrestlerOfBeer]

No, because seeing Slash, Duff, and Scott Weiland on stage at the same time is pretty fucking incredible. Although, I'd prefer an STP reunion and then some project involving Slash, Duff, Matt, and Izzy (and hell, Axl, but we all know the likeliness of that at the present time).

[Redrocket16]

No fucking way if their next album is a s good allaround as contraband was then keep on making em i seen them at the acc in to last year AND IT WAS THE TIME OF MY LIFE

Slash is the king

slash is rock and roll

[The Dog]

Musically, I think VR is pretty terrible.  Slash seems like hes asleep on most of the record and Scott just bores me - first two STP discs are great, the last 3 are pretty average.  I def listen to snakepit more then I do VR.

But VR seems to be 10,000 more times popular then any of the side projects, so I enjoy reading about and seeing Slash and Duff in the press more.

VR should have got Josh Todd instead of Scott.  Shame rock is so fickle these days, Buckcherry was really f'ing good. I DEFINITELY listen to BC a lot more then VR.

[Carlos_f_Rose]

Buckcherry is actually an excellent band...  their first album is great and its similar to VR

[The Dog]

Buckcherry is actually an excellent band...  their first album is great and its similar to VR

I don't think there that similar at all.  Buckcherry reminds me more of post appetite guns, aerosmith with some stones influence mixed in as well.  Its just raw rock with some good riffs and a very under rated frontman.  Their first album BLOWS AWAY contraband.  Other then Slither, most VR songs are pretty boring.  I am a HUGE slash/duff/STP fan and I really can't remember the last time I even THOUGHT of putting on a VR song.  Its not horrible and certainly better then most of the crap out there now (which isn't saying much at all), but it should have been A LOT better.  I really hope Axl releases Chinese Democracy around the same time as the new VR record....one, b/c it'll be great to have so much new music to listen to and most of all 2, b/c I can see fans debating who is better for YEARS!

[Smoking Guns]

That first Buckcherry Album is awesome.  When I first heard they were working with Keith Nelson and Josh Todd I was so happy.  I just don't know what went wrong.  It could have been Josh's drug habbit.  Anyway, I agree that he is a rock band front man.  I am unsure if Weiland is or not.

[Carlos_f_Rose]

About Buckcherry as I told you before, I think it's an excellent band, but I only listened to their first album, and barely saw their second's album video called BOMB or something like that, I think they sold out with the video...

[The Dog]

About Buckcherry as I told you before, I think it's an excellent band, but I only listened to their first album, and barely saw their second's album video called BOMB or something like that, I think they sold out with the video...

2nd album was called TIME BOMB.  Its not as good as the first, but still pretty good.  I'm not bashing VR and contraband, but I think I'd prefer TIME BOMB over VR too.  Even Josh Todd's solo record is pretty kick ass.  VR is just SOOOO average to me...its boring in my opinion. 

I almost wonder if choosing scott was a marketing decision, thinking they'd have a bigger audience b/c of all the STP fans out there (more of them then buck cherry fans).

As for Josh's drug problem...um...HELLO!?!?!? SCOTT HAS A HUUUUUUUGE DRUG PROBLEM!!!!!!!

[Carlos_f_Rose]

I heard that Scott's drugs problem is already in the past...  anyway I also think VR's contraband wasnt that good, but certainly they have a lot to give in the next album.

[WARose]

i personally think that Vr are boring....  few cool riffs AND WHERE ARE SLASH`S SOLOS? and the singer sucks. he was really fuckin cool in STP, but now i`d consider him a pussy. i don?t even watch VR concerts, because of that guy.  the only positive aspect of VR is Slash, Duff and matt playing together...
they should replace dave with izzy or gilby or any other cool guitarist and search for a new singer....

i think the first slash`s snakepit record was FAR better than VR by the way...  but i don`t think every member should continue on his own..  whose guys were made to play together (slash, duff..........matt is ok, too)

[The Dog]

I heard that Scott's drugs problem is already in the past...  anyway I also think VR's contraband wasnt that good, but certainly they have a lot to give in the next album.

When they first recruited him it was def still a problem, wasn't he in legal trouble and rehab when they first kinda got started?  My point is, if thats why they said no to Todd, I just think its REALLY ironic they hired Scott.

[Carlos_f_Rose]

Who is Todd man, the buckcherry singer?

[Mr Cowbell ?]

No doubt velvet revolver has revitalized the public career of the guys - they are more visible now and getting bigger gigs than they could with snakepit, Loaded, Neurotic Outsiders etc.

Scott Weiland will always do fine either solo or with STP (I prefer him solo myself)
Slash will pretty much always do decent as far as a following
Duff can't draw huge crowds, but he may be the most talented of the bunch (plays guitar, bass, drums, vocals, songwriter)

Matt is getting the best exposure has has had in years

Dave is clearly profiting the most (fame-wise, artistically, and financially)

I have seen the following side-projects:
Snakepit 2.0 - better than VR
Loaded - WAY better than VR
STP 2X
Scott solo 2X
Izzy 2X with Duff in Japan

If there was no VR we would have snakepit, loaded, izzy being able to tour, STP or scott, and perhaps N.O

My question is whether you would prefer 5 times as many bands which are definitely better or one mediocre band

btw - I have seen VR twice and was not impressed

discuss

That may be worse then my less educated posts.  VR is making more money then all those other bands combined. Why would they go back to solo projects?

[Sillything]

Velvet Revolver is boring, but some riffs are ok but where are the solos? Loaded is way better! I absolutley love that record! Neurotic Outsiders may be one of the best bands of all time. I think they are up there with GnR and Sex Pistols.
Slash's Snakepit was just horrible.

Scott Weiland suck so they should drop him. If the can't anyone else Duff should start up Loaded again and have Slash on lead guitar.

Or maybe Neurotic Outsiders with Duff on bass instead of John Taylor and have Slash play with Steve Jones

Who cares if it sells records? Should they? They've already got the money.

And I really hope they leave Axl alone now and don't come crawling back to him

[IzzyDutch]

I prefer all the solo projects (Izzy/Duff/Slash) over VR. I'd rather have seen Izzy/Duff/Slash working together.

Still hoping that Izzy is gonna release material with them on it this year or next year like he said. I'd rather have them three working together with a drummer and Izzy/Duff on vocals then Axl.

[HellRevisited]

 hey Silly Thing,I agree VR is a boring band, but your Neurotic Outsider lineup confuses me.they worked the way they were,removing JT & adding Slash wouldn't make sense.
you didn't like either Snakepit?the first one was kinda blah,but I loved the second one,Rod rocked.

[JDA]

If VR went back to side projects it would probably be the dumbest thing anyone of them could do. 

[mikegiuliana]

I don't know why people keep arguing about scott bach or todd.. they chose scott no sence in saying they should had done this or that.. it is what it is, stp had some damn good albums, core rocked purple etc... Not everyone can like scott.

[oldleadbelly]

I don't know why people keep arguing about scott bach or todd.. they chose scott no sence in saying they should had done this or that.. it is what it is, stp had some damn good albums, core rocked purple etc... Not everyone can like scott.

It's really useless Mike.  Scott is going to catch shit on this board til the end of time.  The irony in it all is that most of the VR bashing revolves around "where are Slash's solos?" and "where's the bluesy stuff?"  Then many of the same people bashing VR for not sounding like Guns turn around in the same breath and say "Axl's a genius, this stuff sounds so different and visionary."  Which is it people?  Do you want the Guns sound, or something fresh? 

Naturally, Scott is going to take heat here b/c this is a gunners-first board, but for God sakes, give the man his due.  He was frontman for an extremely successful, and creative band before VR.  He's not holding anyone back creatively.  The dude is out there in his influences, and his solo work more than shows his creativity.  He put steel drum, lap-steel guitar, and mellotron in a country song.  Maybe you didn't like it, but it's pretty creative.  He gets destroyed about his lyrics, but then you praise Josh Todd.  Fuck, i'm done ranting.

[tomass74]

I don't know why people keep arguing about scott bach or todd.. they chose scott no sence in saying they should had done this or that.. it is what it is, stp had some damn good albums, core rocked purple etc... Not everyone can like scott.

It's really useless Mike.? Scott is going to catch shit on this board til the end of time.? The irony in it all is that most of the VR bashing revolves around "where are Slash's solos?" and "where's the bluesy stuff?"? Then many of the same people bashing VR for not sounding like Guns turn around in the same breath and say "Axl's a genius, this stuff sounds so different and visionary."? Which is it people?? Do you want the Guns sound, or something fresh??

Naturally, Scott is going to take heat here b/c this is a gunners-first board, but for God sakes, give the man his due.? He was frontman for an extremely successful, and creative band before VR.? He's not holding anyone back creatively.? The dude is out there in his influences, and his solo work more than shows his creativity.? He put steel drum, lap-steel guitar, and mellotron in a country song.? Maybe you didn't like it, but it's pretty creative.? He gets destroyed about his lyrics, but then you praise Josh Todd.? Fuck, i'm done ranting.

I wouldn't worry about... Most people bitch about him as some lame type of revenge of all the shit people talk about Axl...... Scott is a talented mofo..

[Communist China]

No, no, and hell no.

Well put.

[hyn_zie]

That's an interesting question.

Personally I'm not as impressed by VR mainly due to Scott, I don't particularly think his vocals tie in well with the music that they play. And in the VH1 Behind the Music programme the music when they were jamming was certainly a lot heavier (and to my mind better) than what appeared on Contraband. Plus what will Scott write about now he's clean? Flowers in the Garden? I might be wrong but the music doesn't seem to have the gut wrenching personal feeling about it that gnr did...everyone there played with their heart and soul (and i saw them loads of times) in this outfit it seems to be lacklustre at the best of times. Going through the motions...where are Slash's solos? MIA?

I still wonder if they wil produce a second album, they cut short the European tour in July last year, cos they were 'desparate' to get back into the studio...well...its more than 6 months later (and Duff had said that they wanted a Christmas release) sooo.....we might not even see a second album.

So...I would love to see Slash's Snakepit again...and Duff seems to be relegated to the background, even Axl gave him a song to sing. If VR folded it would be great to see the individual guys on the road again.

Should VR quit? Possibly.

[glow=red,2,300]
Velvet Revolver are ten times better than the Snakepit outfit, and if VR weren't around slash wouldn't be in the pit as he felt he was falling off the wagon again as members of the group were dabling in some heroin and what not, it was inevitable that slash and co would surface as a group but maybe not Guns n roses, i've lost interest in izzys work its to slow and plain, the river album was ok got bored after a while [/glow]

[oldgunsfan]

Sure as hell hope not.  People may have been a little let down that there weren't some longer killer Slash solo's, but people, if they call it quits, IMO, there will be no rock bands. 

Sure everyonce  in a while a band will put a out a cathcy song, but that would be it, one song.

Some of the best songs on Contraband will never be played on the radio.

 

[Mr. Mustard]

Suckertrain Blues is an amzing song and if that doesn't quench some thirst for old G n' R, well that's as close as you are going to get.  Slither was an awesome single.  The slower stuff was certainly enjoyable, maybe not groundbreaking for some but still.  I could argue that November Rain was an overproduced, over the top, wimpy song.  It's all preference, but Contraband was pretty good for a rookie album.  I would think more people would be encouraged for them to take a second crack at it. 

*ducks as people who think I am criticizing November Rain begin to throw things*

[Communist China]

Contraband was pretty good for a rookie album

Yeah, I mean, rookie albums can't be that good--- *remembers Appetite for Destruction*. Oh wait...

[oldgunsfan]

Personally I think the band now calling itself Guns N Roses should call it quits

[Communist China]

That has basically already happened. Several times.

[oldgunsfan]

That has basically already happened. Several times.

i meant permanently, not in the middle of a show or otur

[Communist China]

That has basically already happened. Several times.

i meant permanently, not in the middle of a show or otur

 

Well, if this tour fails then they will be officially over, so, yeah, I don't know how to end this. Maybe a smily face! 

[Mr. Mustard]

Dude, if you are expecting another Appetite for Destruction then you are going to be disappointed.  And don't blame Weiland either because it's obvious the entire band is not interested in making another 'Appetite.'  Sorry.  They actually want to try new things.  Perish the thought! 

[oldgunsfan]

according to slash, there's 10 songs with Izzy that are the best GnR album we'll never hear

[metallex78]

according to slash, there's 10 songs with Izzy that are the best GnR album we'll never hear

He's probably lying, Slash lies all the time apparently...

[mikegiuliana]

I'm not looking for another afd... That is regarded as one of the best rock albums in history.. So good chance about one in a million can make such an album.. I'm just looking for an energetic hard rocking album that kicks some ass.. COntraband did that for me, just give me a little more guitar solo.... if this was christopher walken, I'd want more cowbell

[oldgunsfan]

according to slash, there's 10 songs with Izzy that are the best GnR album we'll never hear

He's probably lying, Slash lies all the time apparently...

ooops, i forgot

[MR W,AXL ROSE]

VR call it quits,are you kidding,bring on the new album 

[Jim Bob]

according to slash, there's 10 songs with Izzy that are the best GnR album we'll never hear

He's probably lying, Slash lies all the time apparently...

He's also a consumate press, photo and media opportunist and manipulator

[Communist China]

according to slash, there's 10 songs with Izzy that are the best GnR album we'll never hear

He's probably lying, Slash lies all the time apparently...

He's also a consumate press, photo and media opportunist and manipulator

Totally. No, don't let my facial expressions show sarcasm, I believe this. No really.

[hyn_zie]

Suckertrain Blues is an amzing song and if that doesn't quench some thirst for old G n' R, well that's as close as you are going to get.? Slither was an awesome single.? The slower stuff was certainly enjoyable, maybe not groundbreaking for some but still.? I could argue that November Rain was an overproduced, over the top, wimpy song.? It's all preference, but Contraband was pretty good for a rookie album.? I would think more people would be encouraged for them to take a second crack at it.?

*ducks as people who think I am criticizing November Rain begin to throw things*

I thought November Rain was a whimmpy song too and thought that it was a overated, it might of been successful in the charts and everyone who thinks its a good song are not the Hard Core fans of Gn'r as they only know about Sweet Child O'Mine before that, most of the band when recording it wanted to move on after recording but Mr Axl Rose continued to work on it for months and it still didn't reach Number 1, i could pick a shit load of songs that are much better than November Rain

[NicoRourke]

Yeah right?

I thought November Rain was a whimmpy song too and thought that it was a overated, it might of been successful in the charts and everyone who thinks its a good song are not the Hard Core fans of Gn'r as they only know about Sweet Child O'Mine before that

What the fuck ? It is still a song that fans are asking for today ! People love when NR is being played. What's a hard Core GN'R fan anyway ?

I agree with you that some people only GN'R through NR, Don't Cry or SCOM, wich pisses me off. But NR is a classic GN'R tune, along with others like WTTJ, etc.

most of the band when recording it wanted to move on after recording but Mr Axl Rose continued to work on it for months

Most of the band... Yeah, like Matt Sorum (What's with the piano ?) Back then he was refering to the song as a masterpiece.

it still didn't reach Number 1

So ? Was the song recorded for that purpose ? Was it made to be N?1 ? Or maybe it was something Axl cared about ?

[tomass74]

Alot of people hate November Rain.. That was also when alot of people stopped liking Gn'R.

[oldgunsfan]

I think the band like Novemeber Rain when it was stripped down with Axl playing piano.  They didn't really go for the orchestra and backing singers.  Especially when they brought them on tour.

NR and DOn't Cry are 2 of GnR's oldest songs written

[Krispy Kreme]

No doubt velvet revolver has revitalized the public career of the guys - they are more visible now and getting bigger gigs than they could with snakepit, Loaded, Neurotic Outsiders etc.

Scott Weiland will always do fine either solo or with STP (I prefer him solo myself)
Slash will pretty much always do decent as far as a following
Duff can't draw huge crowds, but he may be the most talented of the bunch (plays guitar, bass, drums, vocals, songwriter)

Matt is getting the best exposure has has had in years

Dave is clearly profiting the most (fame-wise, artistically, and financially)

I have seen the following side-projects:
Snakepit 2.0 - better than VR
Loaded - WAY better than VR
STP 2X
Scott solo 2X
Izzy 2X with Duff in Japan

If there was no VR we would have snakepit, loaded, izzy being able to tour, STP or scott, and perhaps N.O

My question is whether you would prefer 5 times as many bands which are definitely better or one mediocre band

btw - I have seen VR twice and was not impressed

discuss

The entire premise is flawed. VR is not a mediocre band. You weren't impressed? How is is possible? Were you in the last row and passed  out? You are probably the only person alive who would have such an opinion. VR is better than all five bands combined.

[tomass74]

"VR is better than all five bands combined. "

I almost agree with that... For now I still have to give the edge to STP....

[tomass74]

I have seen the following side-projects:
Snakepit 2.0 - better than VR

Thanks fo rthe laugh hahahahahahah....   

[Nightfall]

Yes they should! or at least Duff and Dave and continue with Loaded