why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs and ..

[jarmo]

Stairway may be lengthy, but comparing IV to the Illusions is a bit of a strectch, don't you think?

Yeah, it was compared to "Physical Graffiti" and "The Wall". 

"Use Your Illusion" is a cross between Physical Graffiti and "The Wall," proclaims GN'R comanager Alan Niven. "It's a record that's gonna amaze and frighten at the same time."

RIP June 1991




/jarmo

[oldleadbelly]

Tomass and acq. like I said before, something you ignored you should blame top hat aka slash is god from the bar for starting whose illness is work, since it was his comment that brought us down this road.

Its funny you still have not called him on that.

Now lets try and get back on topic shall we?
Because the question really still has not been answer.

     OK, OK.  I'll answer your question.  Axl gets shit about being self-indulgent for one reason...HE IS.  He's a selfish little asshole.  He's fucked up in the head, and he really only cares about his own designs.  He has an inflated opinion of his significance in this world, and he burns bridges with the media, bandmates, fans etc. because he is an arrogant dick.  He gets more criticism b/c he has pissed on more people.  This part of the board is full of VR supporters.  A lot of us like Axl still, but are rubbed a bit raw by his whole "deal."  Simply put, he has angered more fans of GnR so far than Scott has.  Hypocritical?  Maybe, but then again, humans are hypocritical by nature.

     Scott has a whole lot of this in his personality as well, and he is also called selfish.  Most of Scott's criticism can be viewed through the jabs he endures over his drug use.  He's called a fuck-up over and over again--not to mention a bad parent, and overall bad human being.  People constantly ask the question, "Why doesn't he just die already?"  So don't worry dave, Scott gets his.  I like both of them, even though I acknowledge their flaws.  I'm personally fairly conservative, and I know what my lifestyle is like, therefore I don't want my rockstars to be like me.  I want them with all the flaws and hardships possible, and ultimately to see them rise above them.  It's entertainment, and it's better when it's epic.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Tomass and acq. like I said before, something you ignored you should blame top hat aka slash is god from the bar for starting whose illness is work, since it was his comment that brought us down this road.

Its funny you still have not called him on that.

Now lets try and get back on topic shall we?
Because the question really still has not been answer.

? ? ?OK, OK.? I'll answer your question.? Axl gets shit about being self-indulgent for one reason...HE IS.? He's a selfish little asshole.? He's fucked up in the head, and he really only cares about his own designs.? He has an inflated opinion of his significance in this world, and he burns bridges with the media, bandmates, fans etc. because he is an arrogant dick.? He gets more criticism b/c he has pissed on more people.? This part of the board is full of VR supporters.? A lot of us like Axl still, but are rubbed a bit raw by his whole "deal."? Simply put, he has angered more fans of GnR so far than Scott has.? Hypocritical?? Maybe, but then again, humans are hypocritical by nature.

? ? ?Scott has a whole lot of this in his personality as well, and he is also called selfish.? Most of Scott's criticism can be viewed through the jabs he endures over his drug use.? He's called a fuck-up over and over again--not to mention a bad parent, and overall bad human being.? People constantly ask the question, "Why doesn't he just die already?"? So don't worry dave, Scott gets his.? I like both of them, even though I acknowledge their flaws.? I'm personally fairly conservative, and I know what my lifestyle is like, therefore I don't want my rockstars to be like me.? I want them with all the flaws and hardships possible, and ultimately to see them rise above them.? It's entertainment, and it's better when it's epic.

That is funny since Axl let slash, izzy and duff all make the kind of songs they wanted, yet when it came to making the kind of songs axl wanted to, he had to twist their arms or they just up and quit, and you think axl is the selfish one?
Its funny aside from  slash, izzy and duff everyone else who has worked with axl have said how nice and easy he is to work for.  So what does that tell you?  As for burning bridges with the media, slash kisses the medias ass and lies about Axl in the interviews because slash is a glory hound.  He craves the spotlight unlike Axl.  slash has a much bigger ego than axl.

[badgirl]

slash has a much bigger ego than axl.

 
curious, but how does one find an objective way to measure ego? i mean, is this your OPINION, or is this fact? and if it IS fact, i would love to hear your thesis and documentation on how one can quantify something as conceptual and subjective as ego.
please, indulge us all.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

slash has a much bigger ego than axl.

 
curious, but how does one find an objective way to measure ego? i mean, is this your OPINION, or is this fact? and if it IS fact, i would love to hear your thesis and documentation on how one can quantify something as conceptual and subjective as ego.
please, indulge us all.

shouldnt you be asking oldleadbelly this question also?
Just curious? Stop trolling with your person attacks.
Thank you. If you have a problem PM me and I have no problem discussing it over that.
Thank  you again.

[badgirl]

slash has a much bigger ego than axl.

 
curious, but how does one find an objective way to measure ego? i mean, is this your OPINION, or is this fact? and if it IS fact, i would love to hear your thesis and documentation on how one can quantify something as conceptual and subjective as ego.
please, indulge us all.

shouldnt you be asking oldleadbelly this question also?
Just curious? Stop trolling with your person attacks.
Thank you. If you have a problem PM me and I have no problem discussing it over that.
Thank? you again.

anyone can answer this question, however, you most recently stated that "slash has a much bigger ego than axl" so i would propose that you could answer it. unless of course, this is not your contention and you were simply echoing someone else's statement. moreover, i don't think that any of this needs to be addressed privately as the definition of "ego" is central to this thread which, as you know, was started under the auspices of the ego-related issue of self-indulgency. there is nothing tangental about my question and i am hardly trolling, merely calling you on your bullshit.
if you want to make a claim as a fact, be prepared to back it up with evidence; you know, of the non-opinion kind.

so again, would you please explain what factors you look to in determining such a fact. i would really love to know. you could teach us all something.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Like I said, slash is always craving the spotlight while Axl shys away from him.
That is one factor right there, was that a not good enough reason?? Slash LOVES attention, Axl hates is, that is why Axl keeps to himself.

And yes you are trolling since a person before me stated that Axl has a huge ego, yet you didn?t call them on it, just like someone way before me stated that Scotts problems were bigger than axls because of child abuse.

Try being more consistent in your actions.

Ps lets again try and get this back on topic please.
Thanks.

[badgirl]

Like I said, slash is always craving the spotlight while Axl shys away from him.
That is one factor right there, was that a not good enough reason?? Slash LOVES attention, Axl hates is, that is why Axl keeps to himself.

And yes you are trolling since a person before me stated that Axl has a huge ego, yet you didn?t call them on it, just like someone way before me stated that Scotts problems were bigger than axls because of child abuse.

Try being more consistent in your actions.

Ps lets again try and get this back on topic please.
Thanks.

we are on topic and i am quite consistent in calling you on your bullshit. if i see another poster who posts as much dreck as you, i will be more than happy to take issue with it.

so, your contention is that "spotlight craving" is the criteria used to determine "ego"... that is it? and could you please explain "spotlight craving" and what constitutes it?

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Like I said, slash is always craving the spotlight while Axl shys away from him.
That is one factor right there, was that a not good enough reason?? Slash LOVES attention, Axl hates is, that is why Axl keeps to himself.

And yes you are trolling since a person before me stated that Axl has a huge ego, yet you didn?t call them on it, just like someone way before me stated that Scotts problems were bigger than axls because of child abuse.

Try being more consistent in your actions.

Ps lets again try and get this back on topic please.
Thanks.

we are on topic and i am quite consistent in calling you on your bullshit. if i see another poster who posts as much dreck as you, i will be more than happy to take issue with it.

so, your contention is that "spotlight craving" is the criteria used to determine "ego"... that is it? and could you please explain "spotlight craving" and what constitutes it?

You are not doing a very good job calling me on anything especially when people are doing what I m doing before me, and you are just ignoring it. 

Do I really have to spell it out for you and make you look any worse on this point?  I am curious, how do you define someone having a big ego?  You really think that slash always want to be the center of attention i.e. craving the spotlight, doesn?t entail him having a huge ego? If not, then tell me what having a big ego entails.

And no this is not on topic since this topic is about scott and axl being self-indulgent.
Slash has nothing to do with this incase you have not notice.

[Sukie]

blah, blah, blah...What is it with you guys?  I think we should just retitle this to the dave and badgirl argument thread.   

Can you please stay on topic?  Thread title:  "why are scotts song on contaband  not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs and .."  I understand that threads evolve with different comments, but you two are just going at each other again. 

[badgirl]

You are not doing a very good job calling me on anything especially when people are doing what I m doing before me, and you are just ignoring it.?

Do I really have to spell it out for you and make you look any worse on this point?? I am curious, how do you define someone having a big ego?? You really think that slash always want to be the center of attention i.e. craving the spotlight, doesn?t entail him having a huge ego? If not, then tell me what having a big ego entails.

And no this is not on topic since this topic is about scott and axl being self-indulgent.
Slash has nothing to do with this incase you have not notice.

you cannot be serious. i will have to spell it out again, you seem to get confused so easily.
1. me ignoring what other people have said DOES NOT NEGATE the points YOU are making and supporting. do you understand that? so, just because top hat mentioned someone's problems are worse than anothers, does not mean that YOU didn't say that too. see? i would be more than happy to take issue with them if they were helping to spread this thread to 5 pages, but YOU are the one doing it, hence i take issue with YOU.
2. the issue is not how I define someone who has a big ego because YOU made the point, not me. I will remind you: you said "slash has a much bigger ego than axl", but you expect ME to define ego for you? why should i make your argument for you? are you not smart enough to do it yourself? i asked you to define "craving the spotlight", to quantify it. you did not do that and instead directed the question back to me... arguments don't work that way Dave. 
3. in case you and your psych degree didn't realize, I was not the one who brought up Slash or his ego. YOU did that. so why exactly do i need to stick to the topic when YOU made the topic that "slash has a much bigger ego than axl".

i will let you in on a little secret. when someone makes a point, offers an opinion or a statement as fact, that bit becomes fodder for discussion. so, genius boy, when you make a point about slash's ego, or izzy's dog, we can comment on it and ask you to elaborate on opinions or provide evidence for facts.

now, please re-read what i just wrote. you need to familiarize yourself with the process of critical thinking and of proper argumentation of points. maybe your psych cirriculum didn't provide these skills to you, but a basic liberal arts education demands English as a prerequisite for graduation and those classes (and those pesky books) teach you about reasoning, critical thinking and reading, all the things you so clearly seem to be lacking.

[badgirl]

blah, blah, blah...What is it with you guys?? I think we should just retitle this to the dave and badgirl argument thread.? ?

Can you please stay on topic?? Thread title:? "why are scotts song on contaband? not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs and .."? I understand that threads evolve with different comments, but you two are just going at each other again.?

sukie, with all due respect, the issue of "ego" is absolutely related to the overall issue of "self-indulgency". after all, to be self-indulgent, by my definition, is to think highly of one's self, to have a big ego. Since Dave was kind enough to mention that "slash has a bigger ego than axl" (though i don't really see how slash needs to be mentioned at all), i think it is absolutely within proper relevance to request for him to further define what he means by "ego" and "craves the spotlight".
the thread does go off topic when dave whines that i don't direct my comments to other people here, so i have to take go off-topic to explain it all to him. 

[RichardNixon]

Stairway may be lengthy, but comparing IV to the Illusions is a bit of a strectch, don't you think?

Yeah, it was compared to "Physical Graffiti" and "The Wall".?

"Use Your Illusion" is a cross between Physical Graffiti and "The Wall," proclaims GN'R comanager Alan Niven. "It's a record that's gonna amaze and frighten at the same time."

RIP June 1991




/jarmo

I think that sums up the UYI albums pretty well.

[mikegiuliana]

Tomass and acq. like I said before, something you ignored you should blame top hat aka slash is god from the bar for starting whose illness is work, since it was his comment that brought us down this road.

Its funny you still have not called him on that.

Now lets try and get back on topic shall we?
Because the question really still has not been answer.

? ? ?OK, OK.? I'll answer your question.? Axl gets shit about being self-indulgent for one reason...HE IS.? He's a selfish little asshole.? He's fucked up in the head, and he really only cares about his own designs.? He has an inflated opinion of his significance in this world, and he burns bridges with the media, bandmates, fans etc. because he is an arrogant dick.? He gets more criticism b/c he has pissed on more people.? This part of the board is full of VR supporters.? A lot of us like Axl still, but are rubbed a bit raw by his whole "deal."? Simply put, he has angered more fans of GnR so far than Scott has.? Hypocritical?? Maybe, but then again, humans are hypocritical by nature.

? ? ?Scott has a whole lot of this in his personality as well, and he is also called selfish.? Most of Scott's criticism can be viewed through the jabs he endures over his drug use.? He's called a fuck-up over and over again--not to mention a bad parent, and overall bad human being.? People constantly ask the question, "Why doesn't he just die already?"? So don't worry dave, Scott gets his.? I like both of them, even though I acknowledge their flaws.? I'm personally fairly conservative, and I know what my lifestyle is like, therefore I don't want my rockstars to be like me.? I want them with all the flaws and hardships possible, and ultimately to see them rise above them.? It's entertainment, and it's better when it's epic.

Dave that is without a doubt the answer to why axl gets so much shit.. He gave you reasons about both people.. I know no answer will ever satisfy you because you feel poor axl is getting ganged up on..

I see on the other posts you mention egos, so because slash gives tons of interviews he has a huge ego, and because axl shys away means he has less of one.. That's hilarious.. That doesn't mean anything/..  Axl's more of just a flake, he's crazy. What else could desrcribe one's behavior. he turned guns n roses into his own personal band and treated the other guys like they were just there to play.. Axl said he had to force n beg the guys to play his massive ego ballads.. Doesn't that show they weren't interested, they even said in btm they had nothing to do wtrih t4eh horns, and so on..The other guys moved on, axl is still in his dream world witht his foreveer album, he promised so much shit already, new songs next summer in 2001, wrapping it up years ago, making a statement following another canceled show in rio, missing two shows in a three week tour, blamed buckethead for everything, even called the guy erratic (he's one to talk) This is why the man gets so much flack for his actions.. Believe me if he was cool and reliable and not self centered he would be just fine..

[younggunner]

Axl's more of just a flake, he's crazy

That flaky, craziness brought the old band straight to the top....didnt see much concern back then...

he turned guns n roses into his own personal band and treated the other guys like they were just there to play.. Axl said he had to force n beg the guys to play his massive ego ballads.. Doesn't that show they weren't interested, they even said in btm they had nothing to do wtrih t4eh horns, and so on..

Oh really? So your basically saying being Slash didnt want to do what Axl wanted to do, Axl should have sucked it up and done only Slash type songs?

ANd just for the record. I read in an old interview thats somewhere on this site, that is what either Slash or Duffs idea to add the horns and stuff.

BUt thats not the point anyways....He didnt turn GNR into his old personal band. How come soings like NR and DC were already created before AFD. How come the band went along with Axl and made that kind of music even before they started? How bout Axl realized that they could expnad there audience by providing other types of songs.
Axl didnt ruin the band. GNR, as a group did. CAn you say egos,jealousy,and different musical philosophies?

The other guys moved on, axl is still in his dream world witht his foreveer album,

You have me cracking up on this one. How in your big head of yours can you say Axl hasnt moved on? The fact that he has only mentioned the old members once in that press release shows that he has moved on. In those 2002 radio interviews he would rarely talk about the old members. In fact, I think he requests not to be asked about his former bandmates. To me thats moving on.
The fact that he refuses to reunite or do anything anyone elses way shows that he has moved on. The fact that he has remained out of the spotlight and remained quiet has showed that he has moved on.

And what if that forever album is a classi? Then what will you say? O yea, I know, its because of the GNR name. What if that album is better than AFD or the Illusions? Then what?

The guy and the band have worked their asses off to make the best dam fukin album. Why do you have an agenda towards that. YES,? the road has been shaky and long, yes they could have done a better PR job, yes they shouldnt HINT at when the album might POSSIBLY come out, but when its all said and done its all good intentions. When its all said and done, the focus will shift from the soap opera to the music. And isnt that the reason why we are all here? Because of music we feel passionate about? No wlets see if the big boys will deliver...my chips are in...

he promised so much shit already, new songs next summer in 2001, wrapping it up years ago, making a statement following another canceled show in rio, missing two shows in a three week tour, blamed buckethead for everything, even called the guy erratic (he's one to talk) This is why the man gets so much flack for his actions..

Again, the album was pushed back in 2001 because of Buckethead.
You imply as if they have cancelled numerous RIo shows. They cancelled it because Buckethead left. Why and how were they going to play if a vital member left?
Missing shows is nothing new???

Yes, I agree, and as Ive said, Axl and GNr have deserved some of the critisim regarding their pr moves. No doubt.

Believe me if he was cool and reliable and not self centered he would be just fine..

Do you do stand up?

[tomass74]

And no this is not on topic since this topic is about scott and axl being self-indulgent.
Slash has nothing to do with this incase you have not notice.

Incase you have not noticed, you are the fucking one who started talking about Slash.

[tomass74]

Tomass and acq. like I said before, something you ignored you should blame top hat aka slash is god from the bar for starting whose illness is work, since it was his comment that brought us down this road.

Its funny you still have not called him on that.

Now lets try and get back on topic shall we?
Because the question really still has not been answer.

Again if you read my original post about  people arguing over these illnesses.. I was calling out EVERYONE that was talking about that. You are as parnoid as your hero. I didn't single you out dave-gnfnr2k.

[tomass74]

Stairway may be lengthy, but comparing IV to the Illusions is a bit of a strectch, don't you think?

Yeah, it was compared to "Physical Graffiti" and "The Wall".?

"Use Your Illusion" is a cross between Physical Graffiti and "The Wall," proclaims GN'R comanager Alan Niven. "It's a record that's gonna amaze and frighten at the same time."

RIP June 1991




/jarmo

GN'R comanager Alan Niven may have compared UYI's to those albums but c'mon. I think they are great and all although I rarely listen to them anymore.? But just because Gn'R's manager said it doesn't mean it's not a "stretch". UYI's don't come close. They are not timelss classics and have not stood the test of time like PG and TW except to hard core Gn'R fans.

[tomass74]

Tomass and acq. like I said before, something you ignored you should blame top hat aka slash is god from the bar for starting whose illness is work, since it was his comment that brought us down this road.

Its funny you still have not called him on that.

Now lets try and get back on topic shall we?
Because the question really still has not been answer.

? ? ?OK, OK.? I'll answer your question.? Axl gets shit about being self-indulgent for one reason...HE IS.? He's a selfish little asshole.? He's fucked up in the head, and he really only cares about his own designs.? He has an inflated opinion of his significance in this world, and he burns bridges with the media, bandmates, fans etc. because he is an arrogant dick.? He gets more criticism b/c he has pissed on more people.? This part of the board is full of VR supporters.? A lot of us like Axl still, but are rubbed a bit raw by his whole "deal."? Simply put, he has angered more fans of GnR so far than Scott has.? Hypocritical?? Maybe, but then again, humans are hypocritical by nature.

? ? ?Scott has a whole lot of this in his personality as well, and he is also called selfish.? Most of Scott's criticism can be viewed through the jabs he endures over his drug use.? He's called a fuck-up over and over again--not to mention a bad parent, and overall bad human being.? People constantly ask the question, "Why doesn't he just die already?"? So don't worry dave, Scott gets his.? I like both of them, even though I acknowledge their flaws.? I'm personally fairly conservative, and I know what my lifestyle is like, therefore I don't want my rockstars to be like me.? I want them with all the flaws and hardships possible, and ultimately to see them rise above them.? It's entertainment, and it's better when it's epic.

Good answer.

[mikegiuliana]

I sometimes wonder if people got on axl because he seemed different then he appeared from his reckless life.. ? It's just a question I myself ask..

I remember hearing afd as a kid and thinking these guys were nuts, fucking wild untamed rockers..? Even something like scom had attitude to it.. It was wild, and showed a softer side to axl, but it was kick ass though..

The first time I heard november rain I was thinking (well a few songs on the illusions) what happenbed to this wild child, this crazy guy? Seemed to go soft a bit, might be why some people got on him.. It's just another way to look at it, not saying it's the answer..

Depending on the time you started listeing to gnr you might not like the little change from afd to the illluisons.. I know songs like NR were done before afd was released, but to the person just checking gnr out don't know this..Afd was attitude and kick ass in a bottle, lies was raw as well, illusions somewhat toned it down and became a big production that wasn't for all..

Could be a reason or two he was frowned upon?