Representative Foley turns out to be a secret card-carrying member of NAMBLA.

[Surfrider]

you two are really really funny.? I don't need to know about the dems scandals, unlike most americans i read the paper.? but thanks for the little recap.? The point of this thread is to discuss Foley, not democrats who committed sick crimes years ago.....?

the point of my post was that its pretty vile to protect a suspected pedophile for political reasons.? To say "they did something but not enough" is just? ? c'mon.? Really.? ?I'm sure you're smarter then that.? They could have done A LOT more.? Had the page not come forwad Foley would still be in office and still IMing teenagers and the GOP members who knew about it wouldn't have a problem, well, maybe till AFTER the election.

turning this into a reps vs. dems discussion about who is the bigger scum bag is just so childish.? Stay on topic, we're talking about Foley here.

make another thread if you want to discuss ALL sick, perv politicians.

I agree.  Nothing makes me more sick than watching Republicans try and defend the higher-ups in the Republican party that may have known about this.  Don't turn this into a Democrat/Republican thing.  This issue is just a clear example of the state of American politics - placing the party and power in front of what is right.

[sandman]

you two are really really funny.? I don't need to know about the dems scandals, unlike most americans i read the paper.? but thanks for the little recap.? The point of this thread is to discuss Foley, not democrats who committed sick crimes years ago.....?

the point of my post was that its pretty vile to protect a suspected pedophile for political reasons.? To say "they did something but not enough" is just? ? c'mon.? Really.? ?I'm sure you're smarter then that.?

so they didn't do enough. not sure why you have a problem with that statement. we're saying the same thing. just becuase i didn't put it caps??? earlier i also said this...

"if it's proven that someone knowingly protected child molestors, i'll be first in line calling for their head."

it was reported to the authorities by members of the GOP. i'm not gonna accuse them of a major crime until i know all the facts.

just like i'm not gonna accuse the DEMS of knowing about this but not leaking it until election time (after the ballots had been printed). OR abc news and other news outlets who may have known about this months ago. lets wait til we have the facts.

[Guns N RockMusic]

The Washington Times just called for the resignation of hastert.  If he had any idea this was going on, he needs to resign.  Foley needs to be put on public display and stoned.  This isn't a Democrat, Republican thing, but it seems taht when the person in error leans to the left, their actions fall upon deaf ears.  I'm glad to see people center of right calling for the head of Foley.  Kind of dispells the accusations of double standards.

[The Dog]

his isn't a Democrat, Republican thing, but it seems taht when the person in error leans to the left, their actions fall upon deaf ears.  I'm glad to see people center of right calling for the head of Foley.  Kind of dispells the accusations of double standards.

sigh, you just can't help yourself can you???  So its not a Democrat/Republican thing, but a "left" / "right" thing?   

You're pretty transparent dude.  Way to stay on topic too. 

[Bud Fox]

Nicely put sandman.  In other words, Republicans generally don't tolerate the behavior while Democrats turn a blind eye or even go as far as to celebrate it.

Bud Fox thinks you are either perjuring yourself here, or grotesquely obtuse.

The GOP Leadership sat on this stuff for years until ABC News outed this perv. They were forced to do it. All the news stories are saying this stuff was common knowledge in Congress, all the pages knew he wanted to get into their pants. Explain to Bud Fox how this is "not tolerating" inappropriate behavior. Explain to Bud Fox how Democrats celebrate the sexual abuse of boys?

The fact he was sending emails asking for pictures of teenage boys who weren't even on his staff, and the fact it was well known among the page staff that the guy was pitching it to these boys should have triggered an investigation over a year ago. Why didn't it happen? From what I've read, two reasons: Foley is a tight buddy with Jeb Bush. Foley is also a tight pal of Rush Limbaugh's. Foley's district was a safe win if the NeoCons just kept it quiet. At the very least, heads should roll over this cover up. And yet you post away with this belligerent swagger and tell everybody that the GOP "doesn't tolerate this behavior." You are just as bad as the molester, lying for those who covered up this act. Bud Fox thinks it is you who celebrate the sexual abuse and mishandling of our children.

So far all news reports are reporting that the Republicans were finally shot in the foot by their own xenophobic partisanship, and kept this a secret amongst themselves. What a bunch of sick fucks.

[sandman]

blind partisanship is leading people to making assumptions about what people did or did not know.

sounds like a rush to judgement by many.

lets wait til the facts are known.

what happened to innocent until proven guilty???

[The Dog]

blind partisanship is leading people to making assumptions about what people did or did not know.

sounds like a rush to judgement by many.

lets wait til the facts are known.

what happened to innocent until proven guilty???

I don't know, ask the people at Guantanamo Bay 

All jokes aside -  the facts ARE ALREADY out.   members of the GOP knew about Foley and rather then report him or investigate him told the pages to ignore him or watch out for him.  I think if/when a full investigation takes place we will only find out about more people connected to hiding facts.  That last bit is an assumption, yes.  But the facts are Foley is guilty of the IMs/emails and there are people who knew about them and didn' report them.

[sandman]

blind partisanship is leading people to making assumptions about what people did or did not know.

sounds like a rush to judgement by many.

lets wait til the facts are known.

what happened to innocent until proven guilty???

I don't know, ask the people at Guantanamo Bay?

All jokes aside -? the facts ARE ALREADY out.? ?members of the GOP knew about Foley and rather then report him or investigate him told the pages to ignore him or watch out for him.? I think if/when a full investigation takes place we will only find out about more people connected to hiding facts.? That last bit is an assumption, yes.? But the facts are Foley is guilty of the IMs/emails and there are people who knew about them and didn' report them.

no, the facts are not out.

what EXACTLY do you mean when you say "members of the GOP knew about Foley"? what did they know?

that's key information that no one knows yet. there's lots of confusion as to what e-mails were known about and IF they were sexually explicit. many questions still to be answered. hopefully the FBI will uncover all the facts and the guilty partys can be held accountable.

This is from House Majority Leader, J. Boner....

"One thing is certain: no one in the leadership, including Speaker Hastert, had any knowledge of the warped and sexually explicit instant messages that were revealed by ABC News last Friday. Had Speaker Hastert or anyone else in our leadership known about Mr. Foley's despicable conduct, I'm confident the speaker would have moved to expel Mr. Foley immediately and turn him over to the appropriate authorities," Boehner wrote.

"We also need to know why these messages surfaced only last week, on the final day of legislative business before the November elections. If this evidence was withheld for political purposes, one can only speculate as to how many additional children may have been endangered before this information was finally revealed," he wrote.

[The Dog]

blind partisanship is leading people to making assumptions about what people did or did not know.

sounds like a rush to judgement by many.

lets wait til the facts are known.

what happened to innocent until proven guilty???

I don't know, ask the people at Guantanamo Bay 

All jokes aside -  the facts ARE ALREADY out.   members of the GOP knew about Foley and rather then report him or investigate him told the pages to ignore him or watch out for him.  I think if/when a full investigation takes place we will only find out about more people connected to hiding facts.  That last bit is an assumption, yes.  But the facts are Foley is guilty of the IMs/emails and there are people who knew about them and didn' report them.

no, the facts are not out.

what EXACTLY do you mean when you say "members of the GOP knew about Foley"? what did they know?

that's key information that no one knows yet. there's lots of confusion as to what e-mails were known about and IF they were sexually explicit. many questions still to be answered. hopefully the FBI will uncover all the facts and the guilty partys can be held accountable.

This is from House Majority Leader, J. Boner....

"One thing is certain: no one in the leadership, including Speaker Hastert, had any knowledge of the warped and sexually explicit instant messages that were revealed by ABC News last Friday. Had Speaker Hastert or anyone else in our leadership known about Mr. Foley's despicable conduct, I'm confident the speaker would have moved to expel Mr. Foley immediately and turn him over to the appropriate authorities," Boehner wrote.

"We also need to know why these messages surfaced only last week, on the final day of legislative business before the November elections. If this evidence was withheld for political purposes, one can only speculate as to how many additional children may have been endangered before this information was finally revealed," he wrote.

Lets assume for a moment that that is 100% true, that nobody had any clue as to what the exact words/intentions of the email/IMs were....these ARE the facts:

in 2005 the page told his dad about the emails requesting his pic and asking him what he wanted for his birthday.  The dad went to Rep. Rodney Alexander, who contacted Hastert.  Hastert, rather then dealing with the matter himself, has his office pass the matter on to a House clerk.  The clerk after learning the messages weren't sexual but overly friendly in context pass it on yet again to the chairman of the Page Board, Rep. John Shimkus....

From CNN.com
Shimkus tells Foley to "immediately cease any communication with the young man." He recalls later that Foley assured him and the clerk of the House that the e-mails would stop.

ok...so at this point they KNOW something is amiss.  Whether or not they know what the emails said or not...Foley got a slap on the wrist.  In any other profession where adults interact with kids this would have been investigated big time.  Can you imagine a teacher acting like that and then just getting a warning??  Hastert and Shimkus stuck their heads in the sand, brushed Foley under a rug and hoped it would pass on.  If you truly believe that at this point in the story Hastert and Shimkus did all they could regarding this matter then you need to step back from the rep/dem aspect of all of this and just use some common sense.  Why is an adult being overly friendly to a teenage boy who he wasn't even working with, commenting about other kids bodies and how mature they are??? 

[Bud Fox]

no, the facts are not out.

what EXACTLY do you mean when you say "members of the GOP knew about Foley"? what did they know?

that's key information that no one knows yet. there's lots of confusion as to what e-mails were known about and IF they were sexually explicit. many questions still to be answered. hopefully the FBI will uncover all the facts and the guilty partys can be held accountable.

Whats a matter, you got something against child molesters being brought to justice? Are they some group you like to protect for some reason? Your support of this pervert has outed you to this forum, dirt bag.

[Bud Fox]

ok...so at this point they KNOW something is amiss.  Whether or not they know what the emails said or not...Foley got a slap on the wrist.  In any other profession where adults interact with kids this would have been investigated big time.  Can you imagine a teacher acting like that and then just getting a warning??  Hastert and Shimkus stuck their heads in the sand, brushed Foley under a rug and hoped it would pass on.  If you truly believe that at this point in the story Hastert and Shimkus did all they could regarding this matter then you need to step back from the rep/dem aspect of all of this and just use some common sense.  Why is an adult being overly friendly to a teenage boy who he wasn't even working with, commenting about other kids bodies and how mature they are??? 

A failed president, a failed war, now a failed Congress. What is left to them but this kind of slimeball horseshit? They will smear people as terrorists and defend child molesters - this is how low they will go. GOP-NAMBLA, take a bow.

[The Dog]

ok...so at this point they KNOW something is amiss.  Whether or not they know what the emails said or not...Foley got a slap on the wrist.  In any other profession where adults interact with kids this would have been investigated big time.  Can you imagine a teacher acting like that and then just getting a warning??  Hastert and Shimkus stuck their heads in the sand, brushed Foley under a rug and hoped it would pass on.  If you truly believe that at this point in the story Hastert and Shimkus did all they could regarding this matter then you need to step back from the rep/dem aspect of all of this and just use some common sense.  Why is an adult being overly friendly to a teenage boy who he wasn't even working with, commenting about other kids bodies and how mature they are??? 

A failed president, a failed war, now a failed Congress. What is left to them but this kind of slimeball horseshit? They will smear people as terrorists and defend child molesters - this is how low they will go. GOP-NAMBLA, take a bow.

I would LIKE to think if they saw the really bad IMs/Emails they would have done more...but thats just the point, they had to have at least THOUGHT something could be up and rather then investigate, they turned their backs on it, shook their finger at Foley and told him he was being a bad little boy and to not do it again.  Thats crap.

EDIT - Whoops...looks like I spoke too soon...

Hastert told reporters on Monday that he was not aware of the complaint against Foley until last Friday. He acknowledged his staff was made aware of it last fall, but he said there was "no reason to bump it up to me at that time."

However, both Majority Leader John Boehner and New York Rep. Tom Reynolds, who heads the House Republicans' re-election campaign, said they had spoken with Hastert about a complaint concerning a former page from Louisiana last spring after being hold about it by Rep. Rodney Alexander (news, bio, voting record), R-La., who had sponsored the teen.

"I believe I talked to the speaker and he told me it had been taken care of," Boehner said in an interview Tuesday on radio station WLW in Cincinnati. "My position is it's in his corner, it's his responsibility."

Reynolds insisted several times in a Monday night news conference in his Buffalo-area district that "I took it to the speaker" this spring when Alexander also mentioned the inappropriate e-mail to him.

Foley had been originally confronted in the fall of 2005 about his communications with the one page. According to a weekend statement issued by Hastert's office, Page Board Chairman John Shimkus, R-Ill., and the House clerk met with the Florida lawmaker and told him to "immediately cease any communication" with the page.

Unlike GOP leaders Reynolds and Boehner, Shimkus read the 2005 e-mail.

So at least one GOP leader, Shimkus, knew of the emails and just gave Foley a slap on the wrist.

Is that enough facts?? Or do you still need more.  Don't worry, I'm sure more are to come.  Like I said before, use some common sense here, its obvious heads were turned away in hopes that a scandal would just go away on its own.

[sandman]

no, the facts are not out.

what EXACTLY do you mean when you say "members of the GOP knew about Foley"? what did they know?

that's key information that no one knows yet. there's lots of confusion as to what e-mails were known about and IF they were sexually explicit. many questions still to be answered. hopefully the FBI will uncover all the facts and the guilty partys can be held accountable.

Whats a matter, you got something against child molesters being brought to justice? Are they some group you like to protect for some reason? Your support of this pervert has outed you to this forum, dirt bag.

more insults. but i appreciate you keeping them in the thread though instead of randomly PMing me. 
but i guess those will come once this thread gets closed. 

secondly, i've made it perfectly clear that i despise this man. in no way have i offered any support his way.

but that doesn't fit your agenda, so you continue to build up a false argument for me, and then criticize said false argument.

[sandman]

hanna - you continue to make assumptions. i will not do that. and i'm probably not being clear....i believe your assumptions very well could be true (that some hid info or didn't do enough). but i want proof. in part because i want to know EXACTLY who did what so they can be held accountable (instead of throwing accusations around at an entire party).

this is what i read, which conflicts with your post. which is true...who knows? which is why i will wait.

In his statement, Shimkus said that in late 2005, he was notified by the clerk of the House at the time - Jeff Trandahl, Tomaszewski said - that the clerk had been told by U.S. Rep. Rodney Alexander, R-La., about an e-mail exchange between Foley and a former House page from Alexander's home state.

"I took immediate action to investigate the matter," Shimkus said in the statement.

"In that email exchange, Congressman Foley asked about the former page's well-being after Hurricane Katrina and requested a photograph. When asked about the email exchange, Congressman Foley said he expressed concern about the page's well-being and wanted a photo to see that the former page was (all) right."

"Congressman Foley told the Clerk and me that he was simply acting as a mentor to this former House page and that nothing inappropriate had occurred. Nevertheless, we ordered Congressman Foley to cease all contact with this former House page to avoid even the appearance of impropriety. We also advised him to be especially mindful of his conduct with respect to current and former House pages, and he assured us he would do so. I received no subsequent complaints about his behavior nor was I ever made aware of any additional e-mails."

IF TRUE, i don't really have a problem with shimkus. big IF.

i want the correct people to be held accountable. the facts are NOT clear.
 

[The Dog]

hanna - you continue to make assumptions. i will not do that. and i'm probably not being clear....i believe your assumptions very well could be true (that some hid info or didn't do enough). but i want proof. in part because i want to know EXACTLY who did what so they can be held accountable (instead of throwing accusations around at an entire party).

this is what i read, which conflicts with your post. which is true...who knows? which is why i will wait.

In his statement, Shimkus said that in late 2005, he was notified by the clerk of the House at the time - Jeff Trandahl, Tomaszewski said - that the clerk had been told by U.S. Rep. Rodney Alexander, R-La., about an e-mail exchange between Foley and a former House page from Alexander's home state.

"I took immediate action to investigate the matter," Shimkus said in the statement.

"In that email exchange, Congressman Foley asked about the former page's well-being after Hurricane Katrina and requested a photograph. When asked about the email exchange, Congressman Foley said he expressed concern about the page's well-being and wanted a photo to see that the former page was (all) right."

"Congressman Foley told the Clerk and me that he was simply acting as a mentor to this former House page and that nothing inappropriate had occurred. Nevertheless, we ordered Congressman Foley to cease all contact with this former House page to avoid even the appearance of impropriety. We also advised him to be especially mindful of his conduct with respect to current and former House pages, and he assured us he would do so. I received no subsequent complaints about his behavior nor was I ever made aware of any additional e-mails."

IF TRUE, i don't really have a problem with shimkus. big IF.

i want the correct people to be held accountable. the facts are NOT clear.
 

What you posted is spot on with what i have read.  Shimkus and the clerk were both made aware of that email.  neither (to our knowledge thus far) knew about the really bad IMs/emails.  But you're missing my point:

If you were Shimkus and the clerk, wouldn't you do more then just say "stop talking to the kids". Wouldn't alarm bells be going off like crazy!!!  Wouldn't you investigate it a little further?  Wouldn't you at least monitor him or not allow him to have anymore pages?  yeah, its great they confronted him, but I'm sorry, I think its safe to assume, and yes it is an assumption b/c only Hastert and Shimkus will ever know their own thoughts behind not doing more, but I have to think that their lack on investigating was politically motivated.

If a principal learned of one of his teachers talking to a student in such a way, told him not to do it again, and then the guy went out and committed a crime or got really lewd in his corresspondence with a kid the principal would be responsible.

My post also points to Hastert lying about knowing about the email...TWO reps said they spoke to him about it.  Again, its their word vs. Hasterts, but I think its safe to assume who is lying here.  These aren't Dems making the claims they told Hastert, its his own party.

[GeorgeSteele]

All indications are that Coach Hastert knew about Foley's messages, at least the "overly friendly" ones.  Even staunch conservative editorials and activists are calling for his head.

http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/ap/2006/10/03/ap3064217.html

With that said, I doubt Hastert will be forced to resign and I'm sure the GOP will have no trouble emerging from this scandal unscathed.  They've survived the WMD farce, CIA leaks, Abu Ghraib - this is nothing, they're bulletproof.  I will now light myself on fire. 

 

[Mal Brossard]

I had said I was going to refrain from posting anywhere at HTGTH for various reasons, but due to the fact I have not yet been banned (or even given any karma, how about that?), I'll weigh in on this.

This is nothing new, but the media tries to usually keep it covered up when it happens to a Republican.  Why did we hear all about Gary Condit while knowing little to nothing about Joe Scarborough?  Condit is banished from politics, while Scarborough is given his own MSNBC show.  Everyone knows about Clinton and Monica, while few people know of the liasons of Bob Barr and Henry Hyde with their respective mistresses.  Clinton gets impeached, with Barr and Hyde leading the proceedings.

"Democrats never capitalized on these affairs, says author Jackson Thoreau. "The 1988 presidential campaign of Democrat Michael Dukakis actually fired Donna Brazile for merely trying to get reporters to look into the reports that Bush Sr. had an affair. Meanwhile, Republican operatives were rewarded financially for spreading such rumors about prominent Democrats. And Democrats kept scratching their heads, wondering why they lost elections when they were afraid to really fight back."

And before anyone says the search for GHWB's affairs would have proven fruitless anyway, I recommend you look into a certain Ms. Jennifer Fitzgerald.

And it doesn't just happen between adults.  Congressmen have been caught doing sexual things with aides and pages as far back as at least 1973.  I'm not excusing it, I'm pointing out that it's been going on and being covered up for a LONG time.

1973-- Gerry Studds, D
1980-- Dan Crane, R
1989-- Congressional Call Boy Scandal, which the majority of you have probably never heard about

I coud list off a ton more from both major parties that have been involved in sexual acts with minors.  The point is it happens and no one should be too surprised about it.  Shocked, certainly.  But not surprised.  Priests are doing it, shit, why not Congressmen too?  Half of them have no ethics whatsoever, rather following the dollar and their libidos.  Religion, morals, and ethics to them are just words for the cameras.

Now it all comes down to what this does to politics in America.  For all those who love painting the right-wing as a bastion of morality and the left-wing's support of gay rights, abortion, and anything else your God disapproves of, this is reality slapping you in the face.  Hastert, and anyone who aided in a cover-up of any actions of anything sexual with children should be ousted in some way or another.  But in a country that can't even convict a President of lying under oath, no matter how much evidence they have in front of them proving that he did, I doubt we'll see it happen.

And I could say a ton about the ACLU defending NAMBLA, but I'll avoid it and just post this quote--

"I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."  ~Voltaire

If we don't fight for the freedom of speech or the press for even for things we don't want to hear or think shouldn't be said, then we are still permitting the limitation of freedom.

[TAP]

Too funny - Fox News is calling Foley a Democrat.

[SLCPUNK]

Too funny - Fox News is calling Foley a Democrat.

You gotta be fucking kidding me................

[SLCPUNK]

I am speaking in general terms.  I sometimes disagree with some of the cases that these people criticize from the ACLU.  Just as the ACLU is a left-leaning organization, these people are all far right journalists.  I, however, think that both sides are correct, legally speaking, part of the time.

That sure seems like a safe answer to me..........

Everything comes down to Bush with you.  First, Bush is not my man.  Second, I think the torture/denial of a trial to overseas combatants is not governed by our Constitution.  I don't see how you can say these people should have the benefit of our bill of rights?  It really has nothing to do about redefining anything.  Now, if you want to talk Geneva conventions, then I will agree with that there have been some violations.

You supported Bush since day one dude. Then changed your user name when the shit started to hit the fan. They should be afforded the rights of the GC and Bush doesn't want that. But Bushco also passed a recent bill that simply removes a suspect?s right to challenge his detention in court. Expanding the definition of an "enemy combatant" to very vague terms. It has been widely reported that the language in the bill makes no distinction between citizens and non-citizens.