Windows Vista -

[GNRfan2008]

Yeah, That is pretty stupid but i'm pretty sure i can give you the reason for it and it is $$$. They could also just be assuming those who bought pro want a more full featured version or business type version. I'm still betting they're motivated by the almighty dollar though. As for dell thats pretty sneaky of them and i'm sure they did it for the very same reason. When my parents bought there dell 8400 in early 05 the only choice at the time was MCE 05. I'm not sure if they qualify for any vista upgrade.

The Business version actually takes away Media Center, DVD Maker, and HD DVD Maker. That's not what I consider more fully featured. It sounds like it adds more server and security type functions, which are pretty much useless to me because I don't use servers and I'm pretty good at avoiding viruses and spyware. Dell ripped me off simply because they put that "Recommends" crap next to XP Pro, despite the fact that I have used both Home (on my parents' computer) and Pro on my computer and I have noticed ZERO differences to be honest. So basically, I paid a lot more money for Pro when it's not any different than Home, and now I can't even upgrade to either version of Vista Home. Well done Dell and MS. 

Meanwhile, I found a VERY nice blog about OEM Windows Vista.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070130-8730.html

It sounds like you can replace anything in the computer EXCEPT the motherboard. You are allowed installation with only one motherboard, so the second you try to upgrade your motherboard, they consider that a NEW computer. Otherwise, it sounds like a good deal.

The only reason i could think of they are offering the business to xp pro uses is cause xp pro was basically the business edition of xp. other then that i don't see why any home user would want it without all those features. Yeah there are a few subtle differences but not anything most users will ever notice. There is runas the file and folder encryption and something else. They both have sure screwed you and a lot of other people i'm sure doing that.

Well thats good to know. I don't plan on a new mobo anytime soon so maybe i will go for the OEM once i have main hard drive bigger than 10 gigs. I have a second one thats 80 but i use that strictly for personal data.

I have an internal 80 GB hard drive, plus a 250 gig external (which is where I run all my music from for iTunes and such, so I have tons of free space always available on the internal for installing programs). I also have upgraded my RAM. My comp came with 512 megs, but I upgraded and got 2 extra gigs last year so RAM shouldn't be an issue for me. But my fan is so loud that I might just end up waiting and getting something other than a Dell, take the RAM out of the Dell, stick it in the new one and have a kickass 3 or 4 gig computer with Vista perfectly installed by the manufacturer. I'd probably get a Sony or something, and if I did, it would likely be a laptop since I'm about to graduate college and might need that in the business world.

Wow you sure do have a lot of free space on there. Thats something i need too before upgrading to vista. I only have 512 and thats hard on xp pro sometimes. I personally prefer custom built computers. The one i have me and my dad put together. I don't like pre made ones too much proprietary stuff in them and installed with the os.

To be honest, I got the extra RAM in preparation for upgrading to Vista. But, I think I'll wait since it's turned out to not be as great as advertised a year or two ago. Also, to be honest I have not noticed much of an improvement with the RAM performance. When I go to Task Manager, it says I have like 2 gigs available but it doesn't seem like it's using it very well. I probably don't have it set up right though (the settings are probably still configured for a 512 MB RAM computer).

As for pre-installed crap, I will give Dell credit for giving me the option to avoid having a ton of crap already on my computer like you'll see with Best Buy, etc. Dell allowed me to say no to all the free trial software so that was a good thing at least.

[tim_m]

Yeah, That is pretty stupid but i'm pretty sure i can give you the reason for it and it is $$$. They could also just be assuming those who bought pro want a more full featured version or business type version. I'm still betting they're motivated by the almighty dollar though. As for dell thats pretty sneaky of them and i'm sure they did it for the very same reason. When my parents bought there dell 8400 in early 05 the only choice at the time was MCE 05. I'm not sure if they qualify for any vista upgrade.

The Business version actually takes away Media Center, DVD Maker, and HD DVD Maker. That's not what I consider more fully featured. It sounds like it adds more server and security type functions, which are pretty much useless to me because I don't use servers and I'm pretty good at avoiding viruses and spyware. Dell ripped me off simply because they put that "Recommends" crap next to XP Pro, despite the fact that I have used both Home (on my parents' computer) and Pro on my computer and I have noticed ZERO differences to be honest. So basically, I paid a lot more money for Pro when it's not any different than Home, and now I can't even upgrade to either version of Vista Home. Well done Dell and MS. 

Meanwhile, I found a VERY nice blog about OEM Windows Vista.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070130-8730.html

It sounds like you can replace anything in the computer EXCEPT the motherboard. You are allowed installation with only one motherboard, so the second you try to upgrade your motherboard, they consider that a NEW computer. Otherwise, it sounds like a good deal.

The only reason i could think of they are offering the business to xp pro uses is cause xp pro was basically the business edition of xp. other then that i don't see why any home user would want it without all those features. Yeah there are a few subtle differences but not anything most users will ever notice. There is runas the file and folder encryption and something else. They both have sure screwed you and a lot of other people i'm sure doing that.

Well thats good to know. I don't plan on a new mobo anytime soon so maybe i will go for the OEM once i have main hard drive bigger than 10 gigs. I have a second one thats 80 but i use that strictly for personal data.

I have an internal 80 GB hard drive, plus a 250 gig external (which is where I run all my music from for iTunes and such, so I have tons of free space always available on the internal for installing programs). I also have upgraded my RAM. My comp came with 512 megs, but I upgraded and got 2 extra gigs last year so RAM shouldn't be an issue for me. But my fan is so loud that I might just end up waiting and getting something other than a Dell, take the RAM out of the Dell, stick it in the new one and have a kickass 3 or 4 gig computer with Vista perfectly installed by the manufacturer. I'd probably get a Sony or something, and if I did, it would likely be a laptop since I'm about to graduate college and might need that in the business world.

Wow you sure do have a lot of free space on there. Thats something i need too before upgrading to vista. I only have 512 and thats hard on xp pro sometimes. I personally prefer custom built computers. The one i have me and my dad put together. I don't like pre made ones too much proprietary stuff in them and installed with the os.

To be honest, I got the extra RAM in preparation for upgrading to Vista. But, I think I'll wait since it's turned out to not be as great as advertised a year or two ago. Also, to be honest I have not noticed much of an improvement with the RAM performance. When I go to Task Manager, it says I have like 2 gigs available but it doesn't seem like it's using it very well. I probably don't have it set up right though (the settings are probably still configured for a 512 MB RAM computer).

As for pre-installed crap, I will give Dell credit for giving me the option to avoid having a ton of crap already on my computer like you'll see with Best Buy, etc. Dell allowed me to say no to all the free trial software so that was a good thing at least.

I notice the ram limitations with mine especially when i'm downloading at very high speeds with bit torrent. I'm on a 15/2 connection. When its downloading very very fast it sucks up all my ram to the point i only have well under 100 mb free. Check how big your page file is. I usually just set it to let windows set it. It may not have adjusted to the new amount of ram

My parents dell came with a lot of crap on it like that Mcafee security software crap. That was the first thing i removed from it. We ended up having to reformat it in the first few months cause of all the BSODS. I only put the OS back on and its been much better since. Another thing i didn't like they don't give you driver cds or dvds. After the format they had no ethernet adapter installed and the video card wasn't either. I had to download and burn them to cd for them.

[GNRfan2008]

Man, your parents got gipped by Dell then. Mine came with discs to reinstall the drivers for ethernet, Creative sound card, NVIDIA video drivers, etc. as well as the Windows XP Pro installation disc. They sent me a disc with AOL on it that I threw away of course, but at least they didn't install it on the computer itself. I've re-formatted a couple of times and at first I was completely lost with the driver stuff b/c you have to install it in a certain order. I called up Dell and found out what the order is and wrote it down so it's been all good since then.

Drivers had to be installed in this order:

1. Intel Chipset
2. Video
3. Audio
4. Network

[tim_m]

The only drivers there's came with was the Sound Blaster Audixy 4 software and driver. No driver for the gigabit eithernet or the Nvidia 6800 graphics card or chipset. They sent them to use after we called and complained then tried to charge us for them.

[GNRfan2008]

The only drivers there's came with was the Sound Blaster Audixy 4 software and driver. No driver for the gigabit eithernet or the Nvidia 6800 graphics card or chipset. They sent them to use after we called and complained then tried to charge us for them.

Damn that sucks. Mine came with 2 or 3 Dell ResourceCD's, 2 of which were pointless since one had the drivers I needed. The audio and video came on separate discs direct from Creative and NVIDIA.

[tim_m]

Yeah it sure did. I was not happy to find i could not get online after it booted the first time. Good thing we had 2 other computers in the house with cd burners and blank cds.

[Gunner80]

Wait at least 1 year before you make the switch to Vista.  Also stay away from OEM versions.

[kaasupoltin]

I think I'll stay by my OS X

[tim_m]

The only drivers there's came with was the Sound Blaster Audixy 4 software and driver. No driver for the gigabit eithernet or the Nvidia 6800 graphics card or chipset. They sent them to use after we called and complained then tried to charge us for them.

Damn that sucks. Mine came with 2 or 3 Dell ResourceCD's, 2 of which were pointless since one had the drivers I needed. The audio and video came on separate discs direct from Creative and NVIDIA.

There is apparently a workaround found already to do a clean install with the upgrade versions of vista. http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5932

[Izzy]

yey - it needs a supercomputer just to run it - and i thought Xp was a resource hog!

[pilferk]

Well, I've discovered that there is a nice alternative. You can buy OEM versions of Vista for like half price from Amazon and NewEgg for instance. The only thing is, there is zero support for it. OEM versions are what Dell, Sony, etc. put on their machines and that is why they are required to provide support for the user. Home Premium is $120 (a full version, not an upgrade) at NewEgg.com with $5 shipping. Amazon has it for for $130 with free shipping. Ultimate is $200 with $5 shipping at NewEgg.com and $220 with free shipping from Amazon. Pretty cool deal if ya ask me!

another thing about oem though good luck changing hardware. i hear its not going to be as easy as calling and reactivating. one review i saw on newegg says if your system dies and you have the oem the os dies with it. the person claims to have called microsoft several times and confirmed this.

By system dying, are you referring to a crash from viruses, etc. or the hardware itself dying? Cuz if it's just from viruses, then you can probably reinstall it. But if you're referring to the hardware, then that's the risk you take I guess.

Yeah i mean hardware. I guess i should've said that.

It's not surprising though. I mean it is for system builders, so the owner of the OEM software has the hardware knowledge and ability to fix things. If you buy OEM software and you are an end consumer, then it's a risk you have to accept. Microsoft does not make the Dell, Sony, HP, etc. parts.

Yeah...except it's crap.

Even a moderate number of hardware changes (increased RAM, new vid card, new sound card, new hard drive) will cause Vista (just like it would XP) to require "reactivation".  So, not only are you SOL if your MB dies and you need to replace it, you're limited in how much upgrading you can do to your system (even if it IS an OEM system....say, a Dell that's had more Ram added, a new vid card put in, and a sound card installed after you buy the system).

That just sucks donkey dick, and I EXPECT MS will likely find themselves having to make a little change to that quirk.  With XP, it was just a matter, even with OEM versions, of calling MS and getting a new key or "approval" for reactivation.  It sounds like Vista is not going to be, out of the box, quite that simple.....yet.

[GNRfan2008]

The only drivers there's came with was the Sound Blaster Audixy 4 software and driver. No driver for the gigabit eithernet or the Nvidia 6800 graphics card or chipset. They sent them to use after we called and complained then tried to charge us for them.

Damn that sucks. Mine came with 2 or 3 Dell ResourceCD's, 2 of which were pointless since one had the drivers I needed. The audio and video came on separate discs direct from Creative and NVIDIA.

There is apparently a workaround found already to do a clean install with the upgrade versions of vista. http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5932

Interesting. So could you buy a Home Premium upgrade and pull this off even if you have XP Pro? I would assume so since it would be running by booting the CD instead of XP and then running the CD.

[tim_m]

The only drivers there's came with was the Sound Blaster Audixy 4 software and driver. No driver for the gigabit eithernet or the Nvidia 6800 graphics card or chipset. They sent them to use after we called and complained then tried to charge us for them.

Damn that sucks. Mine came with 2 or 3 Dell ResourceCD's, 2 of which were pointless since one had the drivers I needed. The audio and video came on separate discs direct from Creative and NVIDIA.

There is apparently a workaround found already to do a clean install with the upgrade versions of vista. http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5932

Interesting. So could you buy a Home Premium upgrade and pull this off even if you have XP Pro? I would assume so since it would be running by booting the CD instead of XP and then running the CD.

That is the way i understand it. You will actually be installing vista twice but hey if it works you save money.

[Chief]

FYI, you probably know this but i'll mention just in case:  you won't be able to put the RAM into a laptop from your desktop dell pc.

Yeah, That is pretty stupid but i'm pretty sure i can give you the reason for it and it is $$$. They could also just be assuming those who bought pro want a more full featured version or business type version. I'm still betting they're motivated by the almighty dollar though. As for dell thats pretty sneaky of them and i'm sure they did it for the very same reason. When my parents bought there dell 8400 in early 05 the only choice at the time was MCE 05. I'm not sure if they qualify for any vista upgrade.

The Business version actually takes away Media Center, DVD Maker, and HD DVD Maker. That's not what I consider more fully featured. It sounds like it adds more server and security type functions, which are pretty much useless to me because I don't use servers and I'm pretty good at avoiding viruses and spyware. Dell ripped me off simply because they put that "Recommends" crap next to XP Pro, despite the fact that I have used both Home (on my parents' computer) and Pro on my computer and I have noticed ZERO differences to be honest. So basically, I paid a lot more money for Pro when it's not any different than Home, and now I can't even upgrade to either version of Vista Home. Well done Dell and MS. 

Meanwhile, I found a VERY nice blog about OEM Windows Vista.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070130-8730.html

It sounds like you can replace anything in the computer EXCEPT the motherboard. You are allowed installation with only one motherboard, so the second you try to upgrade your motherboard, they consider that a NEW computer. Otherwise, it sounds like a good deal.

The only reason i could think of they are offering the business to xp pro uses is cause xp pro was basically the business edition of xp. other then that i don't see why any home user would want it without all those features. Yeah there are a few subtle differences but not anything most users will ever notice. There is runas the file and folder encryption and something else. They both have sure screwed you and a lot of other people i'm sure doing that.

Well thats good to know. I don't plan on a new mobo anytime soon so maybe i will go for the OEM once i have main hard drive bigger than 10 gigs. I have a second one thats 80 but i use that strictly for personal data.

I have an internal 80 GB hard drive, plus a 250 gig external (which is where I run all my music from for iTunes and such, so I have tons of free space always available on the internal for installing programs). I also have upgraded my RAM. My comp came with 512 megs, but I upgraded and got 2 extra gigs last year so RAM shouldn't be an issue for me. But my fan is so loud that I might just end up waiting and getting something other than a Dell, take the RAM out of the Dell, stick it in the new one and have a kickass 3 or 4 gig computer with Vista perfectly installed by the manufacturer. I'd probably get a Sony or something, and if I did, it would likely be a laptop since I'm about to graduate college and might need that in the business world.

[Izzy]

What a piece of junk, read this:

Microsoft has admitted that speech recognition features in Vista could be hijacked so that a PC tells itself to delete files or folders.
Vista can respond to vocal commands and concern has been raised about malicious audio on websites or sent via e-mail.

In one scenario outlined by users a MP3 file of voice instructions was used to tell the PC to delete documents.

Microsoft said the exploit was "technically possible" but there was no need to worry.

The firm has pointed out that in order for the flaw to be exploited the speech recognition feature would need to be activated and configured and both microphone and speakers would have to be switched on
"The exploit scenario would involve the speech recognition feature picking up commands through the microphone such as 'copy', 'delete', 'shutdown', etc. and acting on them," a Microsoft security researcher wrote on the team's official blog.

Some Vista users have already tested the exploit and were able to delete files and empty the trash can so that the documents were not retrievable.

Microsoft has said that even if the machine was primed to accept voice commands it would be unlikely the user would not be in the room to hear the file with malicious instructions being played.

The firm also said that voice commands could not be used for privileged functions such as creating a new user or formatting a drive.

"There are also additional barriers that would make an attack difficult including speaker and microphone placement, microphone feedback, and the clarity of the dictation," wrote the Microsoft researcher.

While speech recognition was a feature of Windows XP, in Vista the use has been widened.

"While we are taking the reports seriously and investigating them accordingly I am confident in saying that there is little if any need to worry about the effects of this issue on your new Windows Vista installation," said the researcher.

I wouldn't trust Vista to break!

[AxlsMainMan]

A definate error, that is forsure..

[GNRfan2008]

FYI, you probably know this but i'll mention just in case:  you won't be able to put the RAM into a laptop from your desktop dell pc.

Yeah, That is pretty stupid but i'm pretty sure i can give you the reason for it and it is $$$. They could also just be assuming those who bought pro want a more full featured version or business type version. I'm still betting they're motivated by the almighty dollar though. As for dell thats pretty sneaky of them and i'm sure they did it for the very same reason. When my parents bought there dell 8400 in early 05 the only choice at the time was MCE 05. I'm not sure if they qualify for any vista upgrade.

The Business version actually takes away Media Center, DVD Maker, and HD DVD Maker. That's not what I consider more fully featured. It sounds like it adds more server and security type functions, which are pretty much useless to me because I don't use servers and I'm pretty good at avoiding viruses and spyware. Dell ripped me off simply because they put that "Recommends" crap next to XP Pro, despite the fact that I have used both Home (on my parents' computer) and Pro on my computer and I have noticed ZERO differences to be honest. So basically, I paid a lot more money for Pro when it's not any different than Home, and now I can't even upgrade to either version of Vista Home. Well done Dell and MS. 

Meanwhile, I found a VERY nice blog about OEM Windows Vista.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070130-8730.html

It sounds like you can replace anything in the computer EXCEPT the motherboard. You are allowed installation with only one motherboard, so the second you try to upgrade your motherboard, they consider that a NEW computer. Otherwise, it sounds like a good deal.

The only reason i could think of they are offering the business to xp pro uses is cause xp pro was basically the business edition of xp. other then that i don't see why any home user would want it without all those features. Yeah there are a few subtle differences but not anything most users will ever notice. There is runas the file and folder encryption and something else. They both have sure screwed you and a lot of other people i'm sure doing that.

Well thats good to know. I don't plan on a new mobo anytime soon so maybe i will go for the OEM once i have main hard drive bigger than 10 gigs. I have a second one thats 80 but i use that strictly for personal data.

I have an internal 80 GB hard drive, plus a 250 gig external (which is where I run all my music from for iTunes and such, so I have tons of free space always available on the internal for installing programs). I also have upgraded my RAM. My comp came with 512 megs, but I upgraded and got 2 extra gigs last year so RAM shouldn't be an issue for me. But my fan is so loud that I might just end up waiting and getting something other than a Dell, take the RAM out of the Dell, stick it in the new one and have a kickass 3 or 4 gig computer with Vista perfectly installed by the manufacturer. I'd probably get a Sony or something, and if I did, it would likely be a laptop since I'm about to graduate college and might need that in the business world.

Well yes of course. I was speaking of a new desktop, but a laptop would probably be more practical and I'd probably just save the RAM for a desktop once I had both.

[tim_m]

What a piece of junk, read this:

Microsoft has admitted that speech recognition features in Vista could be hijacked so that a PC tells itself to delete files or folders.
Vista can respond to vocal commands and concern has been raised about malicious audio on websites or sent via e-mail.

In one scenario outlined by users a MP3 file of voice instructions was used to tell the PC to delete documents.

Microsoft said the exploit was "technically possible" but there was no need to worry.

The firm has pointed out that in order for the flaw to be exploited the speech recognition feature would need to be activated and configured and both microphone and speakers would have to be switched on
"The exploit scenario would involve the speech recognition feature picking up commands through the microphone such as 'copy', 'delete', 'shutdown', etc. and acting on them," a Microsoft security researcher wrote on the team's official blog.

Some Vista users have already tested the exploit and were able to delete files and empty the trash can so that the documents were not retrievable.

Microsoft has said that even if the machine was primed to accept voice commands it would be unlikely the user would not be in the room to hear the file with malicious instructions being played.

The firm also said that voice commands could not be used for privileged functions such as creating a new user or formatting a drive.

"There are also additional barriers that would make an attack difficult including speaker and microphone placement, microphone feedback, and the clarity of the dictation," wrote the Microsoft researcher.

While speech recognition was a feature of Windows XP, in Vista the use has been widened.

"While we are taking the reports seriously and investigating them accordingly I am confident in saying that there is little if any need to worry about the effects of this issue on your new Windows Vista installation," said the researcher.

I wouldn't trust Vista to break!

umm are you aware of how hard that would be to pull off? it could happen with any voice recognition software

[jarmo]

What a piece of junk, read this:

Not that I'm a big Windows or Microsoft supporter, but that's lame.

You're aware that when you go online, other people  can get into your computer? Doesn't that mean the OS you're using is a pice of junk? What kind of an OS gives others this possibility! 


Personally I think voice recognition can be used for lots of good things......


/jarmo

[tim_m]

What a piece of junk, read this:

Not that I'm a big Windows or Microsoft supporter, but that's lame.

You're aware that when you go online, other people  can get into your computer? Doesn't that mean the OS you're using is a pice of junk? What kind of an OS gives others this possibility! 


Personally I think voice recognition can be used for lots of good things......


/jarmo

exactly my point. for this hack to work someone would have to get a voice file on your computer. they would have to get your mic on make sure your speakers are on. then execute the file. to do real damage they would also have to find a way around the popup that asks for administrator rights that is now in vista. you are more likely to get hacked by a website or get a virus then have this happen.