Heavy-Metal: yes or no?

[Axls Locomotive]

Ignorant dick.

Listen to Hangar 18 by Megadeth and tell me that's 'just noise', you pussy.

i probably like a far more diverse range of music than you...but i digress

did i say every song? i was talking generically about the genre...sure there are good songs in every genre but in general metal music produces a lot of crap

and your terse and low-brow reply suggests that you wouldnt know a good lyric if it hit you in the face

[Cubb]

what comes under rock?
what comes under metal?

both these answers are pretty much the same. a band can belong to different types of rock and metal because of the different songs they play,eg. gn'r they wud be assumed soft rock for songs such as november rain,dnt cry and estranged,pop rock for songs such as sweet child,paradise city an yesterday,punk rock for songs like get in the ring,mr. browntone and things like that, just the same way they wud be considrd metal for songs like out ta get me,double talkin jive back off bitch.
Then again other people wud consider some of thes songs to be in the wrong place,but thats what makes music great, u can decide your own taste an the songs an music that u like. u can consider gn'r to be metal or not because ther is no law to say they are or aren't.

i dnt particulrly like "new rock" because i dnt think its as good as old classics like gnr,the stones,aerosmith,sabboth or zepplin an loads more but i do like some of the new songs just the same way i like some "metal" bands an not others for example i dnt like slipknot or megadeth, but that dsnt mean every1 considers them to be metal bands.

[Metallifuck]

i dnt like slipknot or megadeth, but that dsnt mean every1 considers them to be metal bands.

Please don't use a shite, un-talented pop 'nu-metal'  band in the same sentence as Megadeth.

If you don't like metal that's fine, but don't think that bands like Slipknot and Korn are what the majority of metal is.

[Cubb]

If you don't like metal that's fine, but don't think that bands like Slipknot and Korn are what the majority of metal is.

thats xactly my point, metal isnt jus one type of music an not every1 considers certain bands to be metal like others would.

[Rob]

There's no way you can lump metal all into one category.  There are so many different types of metal its friggin ridiculous.  It ranges from death metal bands like Venom to hair metal bands like Poison.  When refering to metal you need to be much more specific to which types you are talking about.  Also to say all metal is noise is frigging retarded.  Listen to Marty Friedman, Chris Poland, Alex Scholnick, Kirk Hammet, Dimebag Darrell, and so many other ridiculously talented guitarists that play metal.  And of course most of your best drummers are metal drummers because metal drumming is faster and more complicated than most drumming.  And there are also many talented metal vocalists like Bruce Dickinson, Halford, Ripper Owens, Joey Belladona...just to name a few.  Where metal vocalists catch a bad rap is with death metal.  Ignorant people like the dude who made the "noise" comment seem to think all metal singers are constantly yelling and growling at you.  Also listen to just one Iron Maiden album and you'll see that it covers a huge range of emotions and topics.  Anyone who thinks it only covers one thing is just plaion stupid.  A band like Iron Maiden has songs about all kinds of historical events, supernatural stuff, sometimes some personal emotional stuff, and countless other topics.  I could go on for hours, but I won't so that's all.

[Walk]

Metal is rock music with classical influences. It's more technical and difficult to play. The songs are more complex. For a metal fan, 3 chords just isn't good enough. Heavy metal bands often see themselves as musicians instead of "rock stars". They have much more talent, and they know it.

Slipknot, Mudvayne, Linkin Park, Taproot, Limp Bizkit, and Disturbed ARE NOT METAL. MALLCORE IS NOT METAL.

[Kujo]

Luciano Pavarotti(sp), one of the most famous opera singers ever, and one of the 3 Tenors was once asked who he thought had the greatest singing voice. His answer: Rob Halford.

[Walk]

Other great metal singers with great, high voices are Eric Adams, Geoff Tate, Bruce Dickinson, Michael Kiske, and Hansi K?rsch. Singers with great low death metal voices are Ruben Rosas, Chris Barnes, and Chuck Schuldiner. When it comes to singing, metal has the better artists.

Hell, metal has the better guitarists, bassists, and drummers too! It is, of course, more difficult to make good metal than good rock, because metal requires more talent. This is also why metal tends to be less popular, it's more of a selective, acquired taste.

Finally, don't forget more complex doesn't always mean "better". Lots of metal is crap, and lots of rock is good. Keep a diverse taste in mind. In a while, I'll probably make a "metal bands for newbs" thread to help people discover a great new type of music.

[Axls Locomotive]

Metal is rock music with classical influences. It's more technical and difficult to play. The songs are more complex.

actually thats progressive rock youre talking about not heavy metal

[Walk]

Have you ever heard of progressive metal?  Classical influences can be found in all genre's of metal if you look hard enough. Gorguts, for example, is very avant-garde death metal. Graveland and Burzum are black metal with some classical influence on them. Grave Digger, a power metal band, often have classical themes in their music (and their ENTIRE Rheingold album!). Cacophony is speed metal with classical influences (and Marty Friedman, the guitarist, is better known for his work with Megadeth).

Most progressive rock just means adding a fiddle, flute, keyboards, or other "exotic" instruments.  Not all of it is like this, but a lot of it unfortuantely is. Saying metal doesn't have more classical influence is ignorant. Rock is more based in folk music.

[Walk]

I decided not to make a new thread, but here are my recommendations. I'm going to keep this simple. Here are good bands to introduce people to the various types of heavy metal out there. Post your favorites here. No mallcore and no hard rock (AC/DC, Kiss, etc) allowed. Metal only. Grindcore with metal influences like Carcass and Napalm Death is ok, Anal Cunt and GWAR is not. Here are my recommended bands.

Power Metal- Blind Guardian, Gamma Ray, Iced Earth, Dragonforce, Stratovarius, Helloween
Thrash Metal- Megadeth, Slayer, Sodom, Kreator, Tankard, Sepultura
Death Metal- Death, Atheist, Cynic, Devourment, Morbid Angel
Progressive Metal- Yngwie Malmsteen, Liquid Tension Experiment, Dream Theater, Symphony X, Adagio
Black Metal- Burzum, Darkthrone, Graveland, Immortal, Emperor, Bathory
Doom Metal- Trouble, Black Sabbath, Saint Vitus, Down
Heavy Metal- Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Motorhead, Manowar, WASP, Accept, Running Wild, Grave Digger

[gilld1]

You can't slag something as mallcore just because a group is successful and sell a lot of albums.  So is GNR mallrock?  Sure Metallica doesn't rock like they used to but they still kick more ass than most bands out there.  Plus, you can actually enjoy/tolerate it.  Where do you classify a band like System of a Down or Soulfly that blend metal with virtually everything?  What about COC and Down?  Southern metal? 

At any rate, the recent Anthrax stuff has been decent.  Mastadon rocks pretty damn hard old school style.  Lamb of God, so-so.  In my opinion, the metal scene is pretty weak.  Far too much cookie monster vacals.  But everything comes back again, metal surely will too.

[Walk]

Cookie monster vocals?  Sure, there are some lame death metal singers, but there are some excellent ones, too. Harsh vocals enhance the music if they're done right. The lame singers usually use machines to help them out, or their voice just isn't designed to go that deep.

As for mallcore, it's usually groove-based, stupidly downtuned, solo-less (or mediocre solos) trend music. It usually has breakdowns, soft singing, then "heavy" choruses. It has rap elements. It's dumbed down rock music with "heavy" groove. Yes, I do know many people include Pantera in this group. Dimebag's solos keep Pantera out of this territory, if only just. It doesn't have to be popular to be mallcore. Mallcore is mallcore.

Down is metal, I don't know what COC is, Soulfly is Max Cavalera's cash-in after Sepultura, and System of a Down sucks. There, settled that one.

[gilld1]

I'll throw some more at ya.  Queens of the Stone Age, sure they're down tuned but Josh Homme can play the hell out of a guitar and his work in Kyuss should earn him some credit.  Rage Against the Machine, rap influence with metal, Morello is the man, it hammers you and hits you just like a metal album, but is it?  Say what you will about Korn, but their first album, when they were hungery and nasty, was absolutely metal.  The onslaught of copycats quickly made it not metal though?

[Walk]

I haven't heard any QotSA, so I can't judge on that. I'll probably check them out someday, since Kyuss is a decent band. Rage and Korn are definitely mallcore.

The only album that I can't decide on as metal or mallcore is Chaos AD, by Sepultura. The previous album, Arise, was definitely metal. The following album, Roots, was definitely mallcore. Chaos AD falls in between. I guess it could be called mediocre groove-metal, but it also has mallcore elements. I do like a few songs on it. Besides this, I have absolute positions on everything else.

[gilld1]

Here's maybe a curveball for you.  By your own current, as of today 5/23, standards I want your take on mid 80s era Ozzy, kind of cheesey, trying to sell albums, but yet rocked?  The same could be said for several bands, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, for example.  Rocked at first, absolutely metal, but then became kinf of parodies of themselves.  IM's whole Eddie sthick for example.

[gilld1]

Walk I can understand initial resistance to System of a Down but believe me, they rock.  It took me several listens of their first album to finally get it and now that I do I am a true convert.  You're on a GNR sight, Axl likes them, would Axl like sucky music?  Sorry, couldn't resist!  Anyway, sit back, smoke a j, open your head and wrap it around SOAD.  The best music is the most challenging.

[Walk]

Axl is a lunatic. He can make great music, but his tastes are questionable. (Fiona Apple?). I have heard some SoaD on the radio and my friend's house, and it was boring. I heard Chop Suey, Toxicity, and one other song I forgot. The political gimmicks and lyrics aren't any good, either. The only good thing they have is the hilarious Steal This Album cover, but that's it.

Ozzy Osbourne mallcore? Put the joint down. Mr Crowley is as metal as it gets. He had many bad songs then, but they were definitely metal. His best material during the 80's can even rival Black Sabbath at time. As for Iron Maiden, they never sold out, period. Terrible example. Hell, they started to get more commercial after they ABANDONED the Eddie concept! (Blaze era). Judas Priest have definitely made some bad albums (Turbo, Point of Entry, Killing Machine), but never mallcore. Just pop rock. They can be forgiven.

Even if SoaD is mallcore's best, it's not as good as metal. I just get sick of the same chug chug chug riff and terrible singing.

EDIT: Assuming SoaD is metal, the 30 or so bands I listed are better. Let's not fight over labels and admit they're a bad band compared to dozens of others more worthy of my listening time.

[gilld1]

You admit that JP did some thing in the vein of "pop rock", isn't that the father of mallcore?  Or at least an uncle!

Another curbeball, Anthrax, the first to bridge rap and metal, always a little different than the stereotypical metal band, somewhat political, metal?  IMO, yes.

[Walk]

Anthrax did "I'm The Man" as a joke, nothing more. Also, check out the band S.O.D., which some Anthrax guys did as a side project. They have always been political in the punk interpretation of the word. Not the gimmicky SoaD/RatM type. In fact, they're the punkiest of the 4 "pillar" thrash bands (Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, Anthrax), which explains their somewhat mavereck status.

As for pop rock, come on, that goes back to the Beatles and the Rolling Stones. Judas Priest never got close to mallcore (and the Beatles certainly never did!). Turbo is actually a fun album if you forget that it's Judas Priest you're listening to.