Potentially habitable planet found

[WhiteRose]

By SETH BORENSTEIN, AP Science Writer

WASHINGTON - For the first time astronomers have discovered a planet outside our solar system that is potentially habitable, with Earth-like temperatures, a find researchers described Tuesday as a big step in the search for "life in the universe."
 
The planet is just the right size, might have water in liquid form, and in galactic terms is relatively nearby at 120 trillion miles away. But the star it closely orbits, known as a "red dwarf," is much smaller, dimmer and cooler than our sun.

There's still a lot that is unknown about the new planet, which could be deemed inhospitable to life once more is known about it. And it's worth noting that scientists' requirements for habitability count Mars in that category: a size relatively similar to Earth's with temperatures that would permit liquid water. However, this is the first outside our solar system that meets those standards.

"It's a significant step on the way to finding possible life in the universe," said University of Geneva astronomer Michel Mayor, one of 11 European scientists on the team that found the planet. "It's a nice discovery. We still have a lot of questions."

The results of the discovery have not been published but have been submitted to the journal Astronomy and Astrophysics.

Alan Boss, who works at the Carnegie Institution of Washington where a U.S. team of astronomers competed in the hunt for an Earth-like planet, called it "a major milestone in this business."

The planet was discovered by the European Southern Observatory's telescope in La Silla, Chile, which has a special instrument that splits light to find wobbles in different wave lengths. Those wobbles can reveal the existence of other worlds.

What they revealed is a planet circling the red dwarf star, Gliese 581. Red dwarfs are low-energy, tiny stars that give off dim red light and last longer than stars like our sun. Until a few years ago, astronomers didn't consider these stars as possible hosts of planets that might sustain life.

The discovery of the new planet, named 581 c, is sure to fuel studies of planets circling similar dim stars. About 80 percent of the stars near Earth are red dwarfs.

The new planet is about five times heavier than Earth. Its discoverers aren't certain if it is rocky like Earth or if its a frozen ice ball with liquid water on the surface. If it is rocky like Earth, which is what the prevailing theory proposes, it has a diameter about 1 1/2 times bigger than our planet. If it is an iceball, as Mayor suggests, it would be even bigger.

Based on theory, 581 c should have an atmosphere, but what's in that atmosphere is still a mystery and if it's too thick that could make the planet's surface temperature too hot, Mayor said.

However, the research team believes the average temperature to be somewhere between 32 and 104 degrees and that set off celebrations among astronomers.

Until now, all 220 planets astronomers have found outside our solar system have had the "Goldilocks problem." They've been too hot, too cold or just plain too big and gaseous, like uninhabitable Jupiter.

The new planet seems just right ? or at least that's what scientists think.

"This could be very important," said? ? ? ? NASA astrobiology expert Chris McKay, who was not part of the discovery team. "It doesn't mean there is life, but it means it's an Earth-like planet in terms of potential habitability."

Eventually astronomers will rack up discoveries of dozens, maybe even hundreds of planets considered habitable, the astronomers said. But this one ? simply called "c" by its discoverers when they talk among themselves ? will go down in cosmic history as No. 1.

Besides having the right temperature, the new planet is probably full of liquid water, hypothesizes Stephane Udry, the discovery team's lead author and another Geneva astronomer. But that is based on theory about how planets form, not on any evidence, he said.

"Liquid water is critical to life as we know it," co-author Xavier Delfosse of Grenoble University in France, said in a statement. "Because of its temperature and relative proximity, this planet will most probably be a very important target of the future space missions dedicated to the search for extraterrestrial life. On the treasure map of the Universe, one would be tempted to mark this planet with an X."

Other astronomers cautioned it's too early to tell whether there is water.

"You need more work to say it's got water or it doesn't have water," said retired NASA astronomer Steve Maran, press officer for the American Astronomical Society. "You wouldn't send a crew there assuming that when you get there, they'll have enough water to get back."

The new planet's star system is a mere 20.5 light years away, making Gliese 581 one of the 100 closest stars to Earth. It's so dim, you can't see it without a telescope, but it's somewhere in the constellation Libra, which is low in the southeastern sky during the midevening in the Northern Hemisphere.

Before you book your extrastellar flight to 581 c, a few caveats about how alien that world probably is: Anyone sitting on the planet would get heavier quickly, and birthdays would add up fast since it orbits its star every 13 days.

Gravity is 1.6 times as strong as Earth's so a 150-pound person would feel like 240 pounds.

But oh, the view. The planet is 14 times closer to the star it orbits. Udry figures the red dwarf star would hang in the sky at a size 20 times larger than our moon. And it's likely, but still not known, that the planet doesn't rotate, so one side would always be sunlit and the other dark.

Distance is another problem. "We don't know how to get to those places in a human lifetime," Maran said.

Two teams of astronomers, one in Europe and one in the United States, have been racing to be the first to find a planet like 581 c outside the solar system.

The European team looked at 100 different stars using a tool called HARPS (High Accuracy Radial Velocity for Planetary Searcher) to find this one planet, said Xavier Bonfils of the Lisbon Observatory, one of the co-discoverers.

Much of the effort to find Earth-like planets has focused on stars like our sun with the challenge being to find a planet the right distance from the star it orbits. About 90 percent of the time, the European telescope focused its search more on sun-like stars, Udry said.

A few weeks before the European discovery earlier this month, a scientific paper in the journal Astrobiology theorized a few days that red dwarf stars were good candidates.

"Now we have the possibility to find many more," Bonfils said.

Link to article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070424/ap_on_sc/habitable_planet

[Mr. Redman]

Fucking cool! This is going to be interesting.

[freedom78]

Very cool.  I just bought a condo there!

[GNRreunioneventually]

cool. i'd love to learn more i hope they make this into an episode of some kind on the Science Channel

if its that far away they'll have to build a new ship that runs on anti- matter and not regular fuel. anti-matter can get them there quicker than anything, while if they left now using regular fuel, they wouldn't get there till about 2060. And if they survive the time warp the youngest member of the crew would bein there 80s or 90s by the time they get there. So unless they can get a ship that runs on anti-matter it will just continue to be a dream.

[25]

I don't fancy the 120 trillion mile commute. Imagine being trapped between a drunkard and a screaming child on that flight.

[Timothy]

I don't fancy the 120 trillion mile commute. Imagine being trapped between a drunkard and a screaming child on that flight.

 

God that would drive someone to kill ....

[Robman?]

cool. i'd love to learn more i hope they make this into an episode of some kind on the Science Channel

if its that far away they'll have to build a new ship that runs on anti- matter and not regular fuel. anti-matter can get them there quicker than anything, while if they left now using regular fuel, they wouldn't get there till about 2060. And if they survive the time warp the youngest member of the crew would bein there 80s or 90s by the time they get there. So unless they can get a ship that runs on anti-matter it will just continue to be a dream.

too bad, according to Einstein, traveling at the speed of light is theoretically impossible. But he's been wrong before.

For this planet to support life it would have to have carbon in the atmosphere, since to our knowledge, all life forms must be carbon based. And if the planet does not rotate, i would suspect that the dark side would be a lot colder than 32 degrees.

They also say that the sun would be "20 times larger than our moon." Sure, the red dwarf will not be as powerful as our sun, but at that closeness it would appear very bright. As you stood on the planet you'd have to wear sunglasses and if you looked up, you'd be blinded.

[polluxlm]

too bad, according to Einstein, traveling at the speed of light is theoretically impossible. But he's been wrong before.

Impossible for matter, not energy...

[Robman?]

too bad, according to Einstein, traveling at the speed of light is theoretically impossible. But he's been wrong before.

Impossible for matter, not energy...

and what would a ship and person be made up of? matter.
not to mention time dilation and such if we could.

Einstein has shown that as something accelerates and travels at great speeds its mass increases. And the larger the mass of the object, the harder it is to give it a push to make it accelerate some more. So when the speed of the object gets really close to the speed of light, its mass becomes almost infinite making it impossible to actually give it the speed of light (or speeds faster than the speed of light).

CHINESE DEMOCRACY eventually was correct in stating that antimatter could be used, because when it is combined with matter it releases vast amounts of energy. Of course, we have no technology that allows us to produce antimatter for an extended period of time.

[Doc Emmett Brown]

And it's likely, but still not known, that the planet doesn't rotate, so one side would always be sunlit and the other dark.

I long for the day when we can play a game of galactic pool.  Give this planet some angular momentum by hitting it off to one side with a large asteroid, and then watch it spin madly.

The planet was discovered by the European Southern Observatory's telescope in La Silla, Chile, which has a special instrument that splits light to find wobbles in different wave lengths. Those wobbles can reveal the existence of other worlds.

The European team looked at 100 different stars using a tool called HARPS (High Accuracy Radial Velocity for Planetary Searcher) to find this one planet

Several years ago when I worked at JPL as a student, there was a cool project called Terrestrial Planet Finder.  They use inteferometery (AKA wobbles) to detect planets because it's a more robust method to subtract out the starlight, and see what's left over.  This method was successful in discovering many gigantic jupiter-like objects.  It looks like HARPS may be even better at finding the smaller size planets.

[GNRreunioneventually]

actually they are making anti-matter as we speak. But the process is very time consuming and dangerous for if the partical accelerated explodes the outcome could equal a disaster as big an atomic bomb.

and yeah Einstein did say that there was like a "speed limit" in space and time and if a person is traveling past that limit it could rip a hole in space which means a worm hole or black hole could form or something like that. I know some of astrolegy but not alot but i'd love to learn more. Space interests me some what.

Any one know of any classes i can take while still in high school?

[Grouse]

actually they are making anti-matter as we speak. But the process is very time consuming and dangerous for if the partical accelerated explodes the outcome could equal a disaster as big an atomic bomb.

It is my understanding that we are only able to create minuscule amounts of antiprotons and that only recently somewhere at the start of this century we were able to create antiprotons that were "cold" enough to experiment with....

So I think we're quite some centuries away from actually creating usable antimatter...

[WhiteRose]

actually they are making anti-matter as we speak. But the process is very time consuming and dangerous for if the partical accelerated explodes the outcome could equal a disaster as big an atomic bomb.

and yeah Einstein did say that there was like a "speed limit" in space and time and if a person is traveling past that limit it could rip a hole in space which means a worm hole or black hole could form or something like that. I know some of astrolegy but not alot but i'd love to learn more. Space interests me some what.

Any one know of any classes i can take while still in high school?

I get the feeling you might enjoy a beautifully made NOVA production entitled 'The Elegant Universe'... it's absolutely wondrous and extremely well made in every regard.

It'll blow your mind and captivate your imagination in some really positive ways.

I believe the DVD set can be purchased through PBS, but here's the amazon link as well.

Cheers,
W.R.? ?

http://www.amazon.com/NOVA-Elegant-Universe-Maria-Spiropulu/dp/B0000ZG0TA/ref=sr_1_1/104-6277369-9891963?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1177544544&sr=1-1

[WhiteRose]

I know some of astrolegy but not alot but i'd love to learn more. Space interests me some what.

I'd also have to recommend the Carl Sagan mini series on DVD entitled 'Cosmos'.?

http://www.amazon.com/Cosmos-Carl-Sagan-Jarom%C3%ADr-Hanzl%C3%ADk/dp/B000055ZOB/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-6277369-9891963?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1177546463&sr=1-1

[Doc Emmett Brown]

^^ I was searching for some Cosmos clips on youtube. This one is cool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JHEqBLG650.

I know some of astrolegy but not alot but i'd love to learn more. Space interests me some what.

astronomy.   

Any one know of any classes i can take while still in high school?

For me it all started with AP physics. If you have that in your high school, you should take it!

[Mr. Redman]

actually they are making anti-matter as we speak. But the process is very time consuming and dangerous for if the partical accelerated explodes the outcome could equal a disaster as big an atomic bomb.

and yeah Einstein did say that there was like a "speed limit" in space and time and if a person is traveling past that limit it could rip a hole in space which means a worm hole or black hole could form or something like that. I know some of astrolegy but not alot but i'd love to learn more. Space interests me some what.

Any one know of any classes i can take while still in high school?

Does your high school offer Astomony [sp?] I know mine does, but I'm not into that stuff. I'm just tryin' to get done with the last 30 days, I've been told I'll be expelled next time I get into trouble, hopefully I can manage.

[MCT]

I don't fancy the 120 trillion mile commute. Imagine being trapped between a drunkard and a screaming child on that flight.

^^ I was searching for some Cosmos clips on youtube. This one is cool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JHEqBLG650.

I know some of astrolegy but not alot but i'd love to learn more. Space interests me some what.

astronomy.

A lot and somewhat azwel.

I don't fancy the 120 trillion mile commute. Imagine being trapped between a drunkard and a screaming child on that flight.

 

Where do you come up with this stuff?!?

[Mama Kin]

too bad, according to Einstein, traveling at the speed of light is theoretically impossible. But he's been wrong before.

Impossible for matter, not energy...

All matter is energy.

[freedom78]

actually they are making anti-matter as we speak. But the process is very time consuming and dangerous for if the partical accelerated explodes the outcome could equal a disaster as big an atomic bomb.

and yeah Einstein did say that there was like a "speed limit" in space and time and if a person is traveling past that limit it could rip a hole in space which means a worm hole or black hole could form or something like that. I know some of astrolegy but not alot but i'd love to learn more. Space interests me some what.

Any one know of any classes i can take while still in high school?

I get the feeling you might enjoy a beautifully made NOVA production entitled 'The Elegant Universe'... it's absolutely wondrous and extremely well made in every regard.

It'll blow your mind and captivate your imagination in some really positive ways.

I believe the DVD set can be purchased through PBS, but here's the amazon link as well.

Cheers,
W.R.   

http://www.amazon.com/NOVA-Elegant-Universe-Maria-Spiropulu/dp/B0000ZG0TA/ref=sr_1_1/104-6277369-9891963?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1177544544&sr=1-1

Hmm...I saw Brian Greene speak on string theory back when I was in college and while impressive, it struck me as failing  to ultimately reconcile relativity and quantum mechanics.  Then again, that was seven or eight years ago, so perhaps it's advanced considerably?

Personally, I think Hawking's "A Brief History of Time" is a good place to start.  It hits on most of the important topics, and is generally written for the layman.  But if you're unfamiliar with the ideas surrounding physics, time, and space, it will still blow your fuckin' mind. 

[GNRreunioneventually]

thanks for the link man i have seen that show as well and every tuesday night before ECW i watch whatever Carl Sagan bit they have on the Science Channel (256 where i'm at)


and i know i'm a bad speller but i try

and  Grouse  i know that the technology surrounding the feild of anti-matter and anti- protons is farly new up untill about a couple of years or so i knew what a partical accelerated  was but didn't know what it did then i saw that one show that said that they make anti-matter by speeding up atoms or something like that. Once again i don't know alot ... excuse me "A LOT" but i'd really like to learn more.


and Almost Famous i don't know if my school does or not. My school is really small only about 350-400 kids all together in 9th through 12th grade. But i will check into it

[SLCPUNK]

Very cool.  I just bought a condo there!

Amazing isn't it? There are already pre-construction sale condo ads on craigslist!

[GNRreunioneventually]

Very cool. I just bought a condo there!

Amazing isn't it? There are already pre-construction sale condo ads on craigslist!

ok we've heard enough of the smartass things on this thread. I laughed the first time now your killing it. This is turning into a somewhat intelligent thread here if you have nothing to add then just watch or ask questions if you don't understand or something or what ever.......

[Gordon Gekko]

Seems to be ideal. In the winter, all the elderly Jewish people could fly down to the hot planet so we wouldn't have to deal with their driving.

[polluxlm]

and what would a ship and person be made up of? matter.

Not necessarily. Matter is bottom line energy with different frequencies, so it is theoretically possible to transfer matter into pure energy.

[Robman?]

and what would a ship and person be made up of? matter.

Not necessarily. Matter is bottom line energy with different frequencies, so it is theoretically possible to transfer matter into pure energy.

but what are you gonna change it into? light energy? Thats actually a creative idea.

[polluxlm]

and what would a ship and person be made up of? matter.

Not necessarily. Matter is bottom line energy with different frequencies, so it is theoretically possible to transfer matter into pure energy.

but what are you gonna change it into? light energy? Thats actually a creative idea.

It's not my idea. I saw it on some NASA videos about their 'Tether' project. You saw nothing in bright light or infared, but when they used cameras to detect the ultra violet spectrum you could see several shaped objects coming and going around the 'Tether'. It all ended with the 'Tether' getting an overload of electricity and breaking in half. It was explained by a physician that the nature of the objects meant that they could have been made from pure energy.

The conclusion was that these objects could infact be alien crafts. Hard to believe, sure, but check out the video on google. The first one seems to have been removed, but you can find part 2 here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8524267568796529301&q=the+case+for+nasa+ufo%27s

[Doc Emmett Brown]

Hmm...I saw Brian Greene speak on string theory back when I was in college and while impressive, it struck me as failing  to ultimately reconcile relativity and quantum mechanics.  Then again, that was seven or eight years ago, so perhaps it's advanced considerably?

That's cool you saw Mr Greene.  Last week I saw Hawking give an informal talk about the progress being made in reconciling relativity and QM, but the solution is still elusive.  In freshman year, physics students take the basic introduction to special relativity, and there's no probability involved at all.  All the equations are determinisitic. Sophomore year brings intro to QM, and now all of a sudden, all the questions are prefixed by 'What is the likelihood of...'.  There is an abrupt jump in the mode of thinking. 

Take for instance, Einstein's gedanken experiments, and compare to the situation of an electron tunneling through a barrier.  It used to be that we (as macro humans) could more easily relate to the thought experiments rather than tunneling which is a probabilistic event.  But computers have changed all that - as the chips become smaller, we approach the laws of QM and have the chance to explore it and test our understanding of it.   It seems we've made much more progress on one end than the other.  We need the ability to travel large distances and create large masses that bend space-time.

[LeftToDecay]

Bleh. 20 light years away. Atleast my layman's brains fail to see how space exploration could ever benefit from this discovery in a maningfull way.
12 hours of fame as various news medium covered the discovery, then 2 months of 4 page articles&speculation  in (identical) science magazines and then..that's us done and everyone can forget it is there.
20 light years.it could take good few hunred years  til we even have space mounted telescopes efficient enough to actually "see" something that far away.
Manned flights to mars, pernament self sufficient base(s) in mars/moon would be such a turn on. a "potentially habitable" planet 20 light years away.pffff.
Our own neighbours(atleast Venus&Mars) would measure as major freakin jackpots on the same "potentially habitable" scale.

[MCT]

So what do we do, LTD? Do we shun our human nature and stop reaching for the stars?

Also, your "layman's brains" should read more. The benefits are substantial and the implications, profound.

[GNRreunioneventually]

first off LTD Venus is to cloes to the sun so its to hot 2ndly Mars has a week atmosphere so we'd all die of cancer from the radiation within a short time of our arrival. Coures i don't know maybe if we planted a few trees there, the amount of oxygen would rise and the atmosphere growing thicker. Right?

i'm not sure about the last part of my statment though

[freedom78]

first off LTD Venus is to cloes to the sun so its to hot 2ndly Mars has a week atmosphere so we'd all die of cancer from the radiation within a short time of our arrival. Coures i don't know maybe if we planted a few trees there, the amount of oxygen would rise and the atmosphere growing thicker. Right?

i'm not sure about the last part of my statment though

Mars could be terraformed to create a breathable atmosphere, though the habitability of Venus seems less likely, to me.  And, Mars has ice which, if the temperatures were raised by creating a greenhouse effect, could help to support life.  As far as human habitation off of Earth goes, Mars makes the most sense (not that this new planet isn't exciting, but we certainly won't be there any time soon).

[GNRreunioneventually]

first off LTD Venus is to cloes to the sun so its to hot 2ndly Mars has a week atmosphere so we'd all die of cancer from the radiation within a short time of our arrival. Coures i don't know maybe if we planted a few trees there, the amount of oxygen would rise and the atmosphere growing thicker. Right?

i'm not sure about the last part of my statment though

Mars could be terraformed to create a breathable atmosphere, though the habitability of Venus seems less likely, to me.? And, Mars has ice which, if the temperatures were raised by creating a greenhouse effect, could help to support life.? As far as human habitation off of Earth goes, Mars makes the most sense (not that this new planet isn't exciting, but we certainly won't be there any time soon).

i'll agree to that. I'd say the soonest we, as humans, have of getting there would be by the year 2080 or 2120 assuming that Einstien is right about us not being able to go faster than the speed of light. 20-30 years to get the amount of money to build a new ship then another 20-30 years to build it to be flawless. Another 5-10 years to train people to go up in the ship fix it if shit goes wrong ect. and another 40-50 to actually lift off and get there.

What do you all think?

[freedom78]

i'll agree to that. I'd say the soonest we, as humans, have of getting there would be by the year 2080 or 2120 assuming that Einstien is right about us not being able to go faster than the speed of light. 20-30 years to get the amount of money to build a new ship then another 20-30 years to build it to be flawless. Another 5-10 years to train people to go up in the ship fix it if shit goes wrong ect. and another 40-50 to actually lift off and get there.

What do you all think?

Considering we haven't gone anything CLOSE to the speed of light, I'd say that's a VERY generous estimate.  A manned craft has yet to go to another planet that's nearby, so going to this place anytime soon (within 100 years) seems really unlikely.  I'm willing to bet that before we spend trillions sending people there, we'll send some sort of deep space probe...after all, you'd hate to get there and realize that it's not habitable.

"Fuck!  We've traveled all this way, the planet's not habitable, and we only have 3 boxes of Rice-a-roni left!"

[LeftToDecay]

So what do we do, LTD? Do we shun our human nature and stop reaching for the stars?

To quote myself here,

Manned flights to mars, permanent self sufficient base(s) in mars/moon would be such a turn on. a "potentially habitable" planet 20 light years away.pffff.

Meaningful steps onwards in space exploration are always great news. Getting confirmation that in theory habitable planets existhere and there in space doesn't do anything to space exploration.
Any scientist could have told you(prior this discovery) that odds of habitable planets not existing, considering the vast amount of different types of stars out there, are virtually zero.
I can pretty much guarantee to you, right here and right now, that by the time we have made so gigantic leaps onwards is space research that we can actually see this planet somehow(feel free to understand the term "see" in any way you like here), we have millions of more interesting things to look at.
We, as a mankind, are currently on a stage where we need major steps onwards in the field of the technology space exploration is done with in order to keep doing space exploration that actually goes/leads to somewhere.

[LeftToDecay]

first off LTD Venus is to cloes to the sun so its to hot 2ndly Mars has a week atmosphere so we'd all die of cancer from the radiation within a short time of our arrival.

My point was that if we lived some 20 light years away from our current solar system and looked at here and discovered Venus/Earth/Mars they'd all look very much potentially habitable.

Of course, we couldn't actually see any of the 3 planets. Them being 20 lightyears away and all. We would just have to assume they are there judging from the way light coming from the star they orbit acts.This would give us absolutely no ways to have detailed info of their atmosphere or conditions in general. All we'd know about the planets would be their size, how close to the sun they orbit and their gravity.Then we could start guessing and assuming things based in those 3 factors, plus the nature of the sun they orbit.
The immense heat in Venus is mostly caused due to it's "own" conditions, not sun.If it was up to sun the temperature on Venus "should" be around 40-70 C or so. Instead of the immense 600-700 C or whatever it actually is.

[GNRreunioneventually]

i'll agree to that. I'd say the soonest we, as humans, have of getting there would be by the year 2080 or 2120 assuming that Einstien is right about us not being able to go faster than the speed of light. 20-30 years to get the amount of money to build a new ship then another 20-30 years to build it to be flawless. Another 5-10 years to train people to go up in the ship fix it if shit goes wrong ect. and another 40-50 to actually lift off and get there.

What do you all think?

Considering we haven't gone anything CLOSE to the speed of light, I'd say that's a VERY generous estimate.? A manned craft has yet to go to another planet that's nearby, so going to this place anytime soon (within 100 years) seems really unlikely.? I'm willing to bet that before we spend trillions sending people there, we'll send some sort of deep space probe...after all, you'd hate to get there and realize that it's not habitable.

"Fuck!? We've traveled all this way, the planet's not habitable, and we only have 3 boxes of Rice-a-roni left!"

thats very true

first off LTD Venus is to cloes to the sun so its to hot 2ndly Mars has a week atmosphere so we'd all die of cancer from the radiation within a short time of our arrival.

My point was that if we lived some 20 light years away from our current solar system and looked at here and discovered Venus/Earth/Mars they'd all look very much potentially habitable.

ok i see your point now, thats true too. I really have no idea how they can tell if its habitable or not by just looking at it, its probably the type of lens they use or something.........



hopefully we have a CHINESE DEMOCRACY before we start going to other planets

[MCT]

So what do we do, LTD? Do we shun our human nature and stop reaching for the stars?

To quote myself here,

Manned flights to mars, permanent self sufficient base(s) in mars/moon would be such a turn on. a "potentially habitable" planet 20 light years away.pffff.

Meaningful steps onwards in space exploration are always great news. Getting confirmation that in theory habitable planets existhere and there in space doesn't do anything to space exploration.
Any scientist could have told you(prior this discovery) that odds of habitable planets not existing, considering the vast amount of different types of stars out there, are virtually zero.
I can pretty much guarantee to you, right here and right now, that by the time we have made so gigantic leaps onwards is space research that we can actually see this planet somehow(feel free to understand the term "see" in any way you like here), we have millions of more interesting things to look at.
We, as a mankind, are currently on a stage where we need major steps onwards in the field of the technology space exploration is done with in order to keep doing space exploration that actually goes/leads to somewhere.

You're failing to see the bigger picture and prattling on about practicality here and impracticality there and whatnot, and it's hardly lending credibility to your line of thinking.

Getting confirmation that in theory habitable planets exist here and there in space doesn't do anything to space exploration.

Sure it does. It pushes.

For one thing, the probability of extraterrestrial life is fascinating. And to confirm it would put Humanity in perspective in relation to the Universe. Cherished notions would crumble, religious and societal institutions of all sorts would scramble to adapt, new ones would crop up, governments would react, and the informed citizenry would fundamentally change. Essentially, life would change.

Of course, things would still go on as they do. You'd still work your job, pig out on pizza, buy new clothes, protest the seal hunt, what have you. The world wouldn't fall into anarchy. But on an individual level, somewhere deep inside, people would change. And this would grow into a collective change as we came together as a species, embraced our own nature and walked through the door of discovery. And this, in a general sense, would push space exploration across board.

Also (and I get that you're looking at more practical and short-term considerations) it should be noted that our sun has a finite lifespan. And at some point in the next 10 billion (?) years, if we're still around, it wouldn't hurt to have a new planet or 50. And what's wrong with looking right now?

^I deliberately ignored the obvious technological evolution that would continue through the years and the possibilities that would go along with it for the sake of making a point.

Any scientist could have told you(prior this discovery) that odds of habitable planets not existing, considering the vast amount of different types of stars out there, are virtually zero.

Basically, don't waste my time, right?

Based on that, a news anchor is wasting my time if he's presenting a story about a giant squid finally being caught on camera. We already knew they were lurking around down there in the depths. We've seen them washed up on beaches and all digested in a sperm whale's belly. And that should be enough. Who cares if this is the first time we've ever seen a live one doing it's thing. It's unimportant. And we shouldn't care or waste money and/or time on it.

I don't buy it. Sorry.

I can pretty much guarantee to you, right here and right now, that by the time we have made so gigantic leaps onwards is space research that we can actually see this planet somehow(feel free to understand the term "see" in any way you like here), we have millions of more interesting things to look at.

http://www.terrestrial-planet-finder.com/index.html

Seems like your short-term practicality argument vs the long-term impracticality of the search for habitable planets just took a hit. It's not all so far away that we'll have no room left on the plate...

We, as a mankind, are currently on a stage where we need major steps onwards in the field of the technology space exploration is done with in order to keep doing space exploration that actually goes/leads to somewhere.

A more apt description of our current state of affairs is that we are currently at a stage where the world is replete with problems and we are unable to focus on any given thing as much as we should. As such, space exploration in general becomes a budgetary juggling act.

But I think we're doing pretty good with what we've got.

[Axlfreek]

^i love this guy 

[Axlfreek]

The search for life gets serious

Posted on Friday, 27 April, 2007 | 7:17 | Comments: 0
Swiss scientist Michel Mayor, who heads the European team that announced the discovery of a new potentially habitable planet, has his sights set on an even bigger target, detecting signs of extraterrestrial life. Mayor predicts that top researchers are less than two decades away from being able to detect real signs of such life -- if it exists. "There's only one thing we can do. We can do science, we can do experiments. We have the methodology, the ability to do this simply on science, so let's do it,'' the University of Geneva scientist said Wednesday. Mayor, who was credited in 1995 with co-finding the first planets outside our solar system, said the scientist in him was unsure of the presence of other life forms in our universe. "But, personally, I feel comfortable with the idea of life existing elsewhere,'' the 65-year-old said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press. Leading astronomers are describing the discovery of the new planet as a big step in the search for life in the universe because it is just the right size, might have water in liquid form, and in galactic terms is relatively nearby at 120 trillion miles away.

But there is still a lot that is unknown about the new planet, named 581 c, discovered by the European Southern Observatory's telescope in La Silla, Chile. The telescope, which Mayor helped design, has a special instrument that splits light to find wobbles in different wave lengths, revealing the possible existence of other worlds. "It is an absolutely fantastic instrument with great precision,'' Mayor said, but added that the planet's diameter, atmospheric makeup and contents have yet to be confirmed.

 

[GNRreunioneventually]

hey nice find Axlfreek where'd ya get it?

[Axlfreek]

hey nice find Axlfreek where'd ya get it?

www.unexplained-mysteries.com


its on the main page.

[LeftToDecay]

You're failing to see the bigger picture and prattling on about practicality here and impracticality there and whatnot, and it's hardly lending credibility to your line of thinking.
For one thing, the probability of extraterrestrial life is fascinating. And to confirm it would put Humanity in perspective in relation to the Universe. Cherished notions would crumble, religious and societal institutions of all sorts would scramble to adapt, new ones would crop up, governments would react,etc etc etc

It is utterly heartbreaking you regard my line of thinking ever so lacking in credibility.

Also, it is interesting you manage to dismiss my line of thinking lacking in credibility as a whole and hop into  few paragraphs of new age filosofy of how mankind responds to alien life in very same post.
Not that there was anything wrong with that, as Seinfeld could tell you. It's just that hop from knowing there is a planet we know next to nothing about some 20 light years away to spreading red carpent to our ameba/furry/humanoid  neighbours is pretty huge one.

Again, as it is now we can't "see" the planet at all. When we manage to bring to the table some  info about it's atmosphere, what it is made of, conditions in there in general..then it is time to get exited or disappointed. And again I am sure when that happens we have a good selection of more interesting/equally interesting things to look at in the sky.
As it is now we are far away from being able to rule out there isn't life in our very own solar system. Searching for it some 20 light years away makes nice food for thought and is great for imagination and all that but..we have no means to really do so yet.

The TPF  sounds like an interesting idea. Based  on the site you linked though, it looks like yet another  exiting concept by nasa that is miles away from being anywhere but at the very beginning of it's development and has ridiculously optimistic ETA dates slapped all over it.The site itself hasn't been updated in 3 years.
Obviously It will be very exiting to see what it is capable of doing/finding if/when it gets finished.

It does little to my main argument though.As long as we know nothing about this planet and are unable to actually look at it, it just isn't  a big enough turn on. The mere fact that hay it exists isn't a huge deal. Well it is fun to know for sure. But do understand that it doesn't spark a religious crisis and journey to my within just yet. The fact it was discovered so soon (alongide with another small distant planet at some point last year was it?)after we began using the um " double star light based detection method" would suggest that it is not very uncommon sight to have planets ize of earth  that close to a star. As do statitics as a whole.
Just give it some time, they'll keep popping up.

[GNRreunioneventually]

why would it cause a "religious crisis"?

[freedom78]

why would it cause a "religious crisis"?

Because a lot of people are small minded?

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Didn't God create aliens also? 

[GNRreunioneventually]

why would it cause a "religious crisis"?

Because a lot of people are small minded?

true, but still i don't get it

[Tatu]

"I saw it first" will say Bush.

[WhiteRose]

Didn't God create aliens also??

That has got to be one of the most beautiful posts I've ever seen here... and what a delightful question too.?

Cheers,
W.R.

[GNRreunioneventually]

Didn't God create aliens also??

That has got to be one of the most beautiful posts I've ever seen here... and what a delightful question too.?

Cheers,
W.R.

i'm gonna ASSuME something*


was that a seriouse question or a smartass remark bashing religion?

i'm not gonna preach to you if it is........just asking...........

[WhiteRose]

Didn't God create aliens also??

That has got to be one of the most beautiful posts I've ever seen here... and what a delightful question too.?

i'm gonna ASSuME something*


was that a seriouse question or a smartass remark bashing religion?

i'm not gonna preach to you if it is........just asking...........

I'm not sure as to the intensions of the question that 'GnRFL' asked (perhaps they'll provide some clarification) but I think it's a fascinating question none-the-less.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

I think God and religion are two different things. Religion has given God a bad name in many cases.

I do believe there is a God, but is God what religion would lead us to believe he is? ( this could have an entirely new thread devoted to it)

So I guess I ment the question to cut both ways.

[freedom78]

I do believe there is a God, but is God what religion would lead us to believe he is? ( this could have an entirely new thread devoted to it)

A better question might be "Is religion what God would want it to be?"

[Axlfreek]

i wonder how many ufo sightings there have been compared to "Axl" sightings between 1994 and 2001 ?

[GNRreunioneventually]

I do believe there is a God, but is God what religion would lead us to believe he is? ( this could have an entirely new thread devoted to it)

A better question might be "Is religion what God would want it to be?"

thats actually a good question really.

cause with all the bombing and shit like that, if you ask me the muslims are the most fucked up of all. I think they believe that "if your not a muslim or if you don't agree with there faith then you must die" or something like that.

I'm no where nere an extreme anything i'm a Lutheran actually which is just this side of Catholic.



any way back on topic now, anything new about this planet? does NASA or ESA have a website where you can look at things like these?

[MCT]

It is utterly heartbreaking you regard my line of thinking ever so lacking in credibility.

What's really heartbreaking is that you quoted but a fraction of my post and freely stuck undue ideas in between my lines.

Look, I threw a few cents into the mix and I made a point or three. And contrary to what you think, I didn't conform to any standardized box. So lay off with the filosofy and the like. And go read more. Your argument needs it.