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Author Topic: Potentially habitable planet found  (Read 12512 times)
WhiteRose
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« on: April 24, 2007, 09:20:43 PM »

By SETH BORENSTEIN, AP Science Writer

WASHINGTON - For the first time astronomers have discovered a planet outside our solar system that is potentially habitable, with Earth-like temperatures, a find researchers described Tuesday as a big step in the search for "life in the universe."
 
The planet is just the right size, might have water in liquid form, and in galactic terms is relatively nearby at 120 trillion miles away. But the star it closely orbits, known as a "red dwarf," is much smaller, dimmer and cooler than our sun.

There's still a lot that is unknown about the new planet, which could be deemed inhospitable to life once more is known about it. And it's worth noting that scientists' requirements for habitability count Mars in that category: a size relatively similar to Earth's with temperatures that would permit liquid water. However, this is the first outside our solar system that meets those standards.

"It's a significant step on the way to finding possible life in the universe," said University of Geneva astronomer Michel Mayor, one of 11 European scientists on the team that found the planet. "It's a nice discovery. We still have a lot of questions."

The results of the discovery have not been published but have been submitted to the journal Astronomy and Astrophysics.

Alan Boss, who works at the Carnegie Institution of Washington where a U.S. team of astronomers competed in the hunt for an Earth-like planet, called it "a major milestone in this business."

The planet was discovered by the European Southern Observatory's telescope in La Silla, Chile, which has a special instrument that splits light to find wobbles in different wave lengths. Those wobbles can reveal the existence of other worlds.

What they revealed is a planet circling the red dwarf star, Gliese 581. Red dwarfs are low-energy, tiny stars that give off dim red light and last longer than stars like our sun. Until a few years ago, astronomers didn't consider these stars as possible hosts of planets that might sustain life.

The discovery of the new planet, named 581 c, is sure to fuel studies of planets circling similar dim stars. About 80 percent of the stars near Earth are red dwarfs.

The new planet is about five times heavier than Earth. Its discoverers aren't certain if it is rocky like Earth or if its a frozen ice ball with liquid water on the surface. If it is rocky like Earth, which is what the prevailing theory proposes, it has a diameter about 1 1/2 times bigger than our planet. If it is an iceball, as Mayor suggests, it would be even bigger.

Based on theory, 581 c should have an atmosphere, but what's in that atmosphere is still a mystery and if it's too thick that could make the planet's surface temperature too hot, Mayor said.

However, the research team believes the average temperature to be somewhere between 32 and 104 degrees and that set off celebrations among astronomers.

Until now, all 220 planets astronomers have found outside our solar system have had the "Goldilocks problem." They've been too hot, too cold or just plain too big and gaseous, like uninhabitable Jupiter.

The new planet seems just right ? or at least that's what scientists think.

"This could be very important," said? ? ? ? NASA astrobiology expert Chris McKay, who was not part of the discovery team. "It doesn't mean there is life, but it means it's an Earth-like planet in terms of potential habitability."

Eventually astronomers will rack up discoveries of dozens, maybe even hundreds of planets considered habitable, the astronomers said. But this one ? simply called "c" by its discoverers when they talk among themselves ? will go down in cosmic history as No. 1.

Besides having the right temperature, the new planet is probably full of liquid water, hypothesizes Stephane Udry, the discovery team's lead author and another Geneva astronomer. But that is based on theory about how planets form, not on any evidence, he said.

"Liquid water is critical to life as we know it," co-author Xavier Delfosse of Grenoble University in France, said in a statement. "Because of its temperature and relative proximity, this planet will most probably be a very important target of the future space missions dedicated to the search for extraterrestrial life. On the treasure map of the Universe, one would be tempted to mark this planet with an X."

Other astronomers cautioned it's too early to tell whether there is water.

"You need more work to say it's got water or it doesn't have water," said retired NASA astronomer Steve Maran, press officer for the American Astronomical Society. "You wouldn't send a crew there assuming that when you get there, they'll have enough water to get back."

The new planet's star system is a mere 20.5 light years away, making Gliese 581 one of the 100 closest stars to Earth. It's so dim, you can't see it without a telescope, but it's somewhere in the constellation Libra, which is low in the southeastern sky during the midevening in the Northern Hemisphere.

Before you book your extrastellar flight to 581 c, a few caveats about how alien that world probably is: Anyone sitting on the planet would get heavier quickly, and birthdays would add up fast since it orbits its star every 13 days.

Gravity is 1.6 times as strong as Earth's so a 150-pound person would feel like 240 pounds.

But oh, the view. The planet is 14 times closer to the star it orbits. Udry figures the red dwarf star would hang in the sky at a size 20 times larger than our moon. And it's likely, but still not known, that the planet doesn't rotate, so one side would always be sunlit and the other dark.

Distance is another problem. "We don't know how to get to those places in a human lifetime," Maran said.

Two teams of astronomers, one in Europe and one in the United States, have been racing to be the first to find a planet like 581 c outside the solar system.

The European team looked at 100 different stars using a tool called HARPS (High Accuracy Radial Velocity for Planetary Searcher) to find this one planet, said Xavier Bonfils of the Lisbon Observatory, one of the co-discoverers.

Much of the effort to find Earth-like planets has focused on stars like our sun with the challenge being to find a planet the right distance from the star it orbits. About 90 percent of the time, the European telescope focused its search more on sun-like stars, Udry said.

A few weeks before the European discovery earlier this month, a scientific paper in the journal Astrobiology theorized a few days that red dwarf stars were good candidates.

"Now we have the possibility to find many more," Bonfils said.

Link to article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070424/ap_on_sc/habitable_planet

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Mr. Redman
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« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2007, 10:43:34 PM »

Fucking cool! This is going to be interesting.
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« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2007, 11:44:11 PM »

Very cool.  I just bought a condo there!
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« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2007, 12:05:12 AM »

cool. i'd love to learn more i hope they make this into an episode of some kind on the Science Channel Cheesy

if its that far away they'll have to build a new ship that runs on anti- matter and not regular fuel. anti-matter can get them there quicker than anything, while if they left now using regular fuel, they wouldn't get there till about 2060. And if they survive the time warp the youngest member of the crew would bein there 80s or 90s by the time they get there. So unless they can get a ship that runs on anti-matter it will just continue to be a dream.
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« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2007, 02:51:19 AM »

I don't fancy the 120 trillion mile commute. Imagine being trapped between a drunkard and a screaming child on that flight.
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« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2007, 02:58:39 AM »

I don't fancy the 120 trillion mile commute. Imagine being trapped between a drunkard and a screaming child on that flight.

 rofl

God that would drive someone to kill ....
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« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2007, 06:54:32 AM »

cool. i'd love to learn more i hope they make this into an episode of some kind on the Science Channel Cheesy

if its that far away they'll have to build a new ship that runs on anti- matter and not regular fuel. anti-matter can get them there quicker than anything, while if they left now using regular fuel, they wouldn't get there till about 2060. And if they survive the time warp the youngest member of the crew would bein there 80s or 90s by the time they get there. So unless they can get a ship that runs on anti-matter it will just continue to be a dream.

too bad, according to Einstein, traveling at the speed of light is theoretically impossible. But he's been wrong before.

For this planet to support life it would have to have carbon in the atmosphere, since to our knowledge, all life forms must be carbon based. And if the planet does not rotate, i would suspect that the dark side would be a lot colder than 32 degrees.

They also say that the sun would be "20 times larger than our moon." Sure, the red dwarf will not be as powerful as our sun, but at that closeness it would appear very bright. As you stood on the planet you'd have to wear sunglasses and if you looked up, you'd be blinded.
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« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2007, 07:52:20 AM »

too bad, according to Einstein, traveling at the speed of light is theoretically impossible. But he's been wrong before.



Impossible for matter, not energy...
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« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2007, 04:20:19 PM »

too bad, according to Einstein, traveling at the speed of light is theoretically impossible. But he's been wrong before.



Impossible for matter, not energy...

and what would a ship and person be made up of? matter.
not to mention time dilation and such if we could.

Einstein has shown that as something accelerates and travels at great speeds its mass increases. And the larger the mass of the object, the harder it is to give it a push to make it accelerate some more. So when the speed of the object gets really close to the speed of light, its mass becomes almost infinite making it impossible to actually give it the speed of light (or speeds faster than the speed of light).

CHINESE DEMOCRACY eventually was correct in stating that antimatter could be used, because when it is combined with matter it releases vast amounts of energy. Of course, we have no technology that allows us to produce antimatter for an extended period of time.
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Doc Emmett Brown
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« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2007, 04:57:54 PM »

Quote
And it's likely, but still not known, that the planet doesn't rotate, so one side would always be sunlit and the other dark.

I long for the day when we can play a game of galactic pool.  Give this planet some angular momentum by hitting it off to one side with a large asteroid, and then watch it spin madly.


Quote
The planet was discovered by the European Southern Observatory's telescope in La Silla, Chile, which has a special instrument that splits light to find wobbles in different wave lengths. Those wobbles can reveal the existence of other worlds.

Quote
The European team looked at 100 different stars using a tool called HARPS (High Accuracy Radial Velocity for Planetary Searcher) to find this one planet

Several years ago when I worked at JPL as a student, there was a cool project called Terrestrial Planet Finder.  They use inteferometery (AKA wobbles) to detect planets because it's a more robust method to subtract out the starlight, and see what's left over.  This method was successful in discovering many gigantic jupiter-like objects.  It looks like HARPS may be even better at finding the smaller size planets.
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« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2007, 06:59:44 PM »

actually they are making anti-matter as we speak. But the process is very time consuming and dangerous for if the partical accelerated explodes the outcome could equal a disaster as big an atomic bomb.

and yeah Einstein did say that there was like a "speed limit" in space and time and if a person is traveling past that limit it could rip a hole in space which means a worm hole or black hole could form or something like that. I know some of astrolegy but not alot but i'd love to learn more. Space interests me some what.

Any one know of any classes i can take while still in high school?
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« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2007, 07:18:51 PM »

actually they are making anti-matter as we speak. But the process is very time consuming and dangerous for if the partical accelerated explodes the outcome could equal a disaster as big an atomic bomb.

It is my understanding that we are only able to create minuscule amounts of antiprotons and that only recently somewhere at the start of this century we were able to create antiprotons that were "cold" enough to experiment with....

So I think we're quite some centuries away from actually creating usable antimatter...
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« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2007, 07:58:32 PM »

actually they are making anti-matter as we speak. But the process is very time consuming and dangerous for if the partical accelerated explodes the outcome could equal a disaster as big an atomic bomb.

and yeah Einstein did say that there was like a "speed limit" in space and time and if a person is traveling past that limit it could rip a hole in space which means a worm hole or black hole could form or something like that. I know some of astrolegy but not alot but i'd love to learn more. Space interests me some what.

Any one know of any classes i can take while still in high school?

I get the feeling you might enjoy a beautifully made NOVA production entitled 'The Elegant Universe'... it's absolutely wondrous and extremely well made in every regard.

It'll blow your mind and captivate your imagination in some really positive ways.

I believe the DVD set can be purchased through PBS, but here's the amazon link as well.

Cheers,
W.R.? ?

http://www.amazon.com/NOVA-Elegant-Universe-Maria-Spiropulu/dp/B0000ZG0TA/ref=sr_1_1/104-6277369-9891963?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1177544544&sr=1-1
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« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2007, 08:16:10 PM »

I know some of astrolegy but not alot but i'd love to learn more. Space interests me some what.

I'd also have to recommend the Carl Sagan mini series on DVD entitled 'Cosmos'.? Smiley

http://www.amazon.com/Cosmos-Carl-Sagan-Jarom%C3%ADr-Hanzl%C3%ADk/dp/B000055ZOB/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-6277369-9891963?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1177546463&sr=1-1

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« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2007, 08:23:36 PM »

^^ I was searching for some Cosmos clips on youtube. This one is cool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JHEqBLG650.

I know some of astrolegy but not alot but i'd love to learn more. Space interests me some what.

astronomy.    Wink

Quote
Any one know of any classes i can take while still in high school?

For me it all started with AP physics. If you have that in your high school, you should take it!
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« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2007, 08:30:30 PM »

actually they are making anti-matter as we speak. But the process is very time consuming and dangerous for if the partical accelerated explodes the outcome could equal a disaster as big an atomic bomb.

and yeah Einstein did say that there was like a "speed limit" in space and time and if a person is traveling past that limit it could rip a hole in space which means a worm hole or black hole could form or something like that. I know some of astrolegy but not alot but i'd love to learn more. Space interests me some what.

Any one know of any classes i can take while still in high school?

Does your high school offer Astomony [sp?] I know mine does, but I'm not into that stuff. I'm just tryin' to get done with the last 30 days, I've been told I'll be expelled next time I get into trouble, hopefully I can manage.
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« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2007, 08:52:58 PM »

I don't fancy the 120 trillion mile commute. Imagine being trapped between a drunkard and a screaming child on that flight.
^^ I was searching for some Cosmos clips on youtube. This one is cool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JHEqBLG650.

I know some of astrolegy but not alot but i'd love to learn more. Space interests me some what.

astronomy. Wink

A lot and somewhat azwel.

I don't fancy the 120 trillion mile commute. Imagine being trapped between a drunkard and a screaming child on that flight.

 rofl

Where do you come up with this stuff?!?
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« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2007, 10:24:01 PM »

too bad, according to Einstein, traveling at the speed of light is theoretically impossible. But he's been wrong before.



Impossible for matter, not energy...

All matter is energy.
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« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2007, 10:42:09 PM »

actually they are making anti-matter as we speak. But the process is very time consuming and dangerous for if the partical accelerated explodes the outcome could equal a disaster as big an atomic bomb.

and yeah Einstein did say that there was like a "speed limit" in space and time and if a person is traveling past that limit it could rip a hole in space which means a worm hole or black hole could form or something like that. I know some of astrolegy but not alot but i'd love to learn more. Space interests me some what.

Any one know of any classes i can take while still in high school?

I get the feeling you might enjoy a beautifully made NOVA production entitled 'The Elegant Universe'... it's absolutely wondrous and extremely well made in every regard.

It'll blow your mind and captivate your imagination in some really positive ways.

I believe the DVD set can be purchased through PBS, but here's the amazon link as well.

Cheers,
W.R.   

http://www.amazon.com/NOVA-Elegant-Universe-Maria-Spiropulu/dp/B0000ZG0TA/ref=sr_1_1/104-6277369-9891963?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1177544544&sr=1-1

Hmm...I saw Brian Greene speak on string theory back when I was in college and while impressive, it struck me as failing  to ultimately reconcile relativity and quantum mechanics.  Then again, that was seven or eight years ago, so perhaps it's advanced considerably?

Personally, I think Hawking's "A Brief History of Time" is a good place to start.  It hits on most of the important topics, and is generally written for the layman.  But if you're unfamiliar with the ideas surrounding physics, time, and space, it will still blow your fuckin' mind. 
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« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2007, 11:39:20 PM »

thanks for the link man i have seen that show as well and every tuesday night before ECW i watch whatever Carl Sagan bit they have on the Science Channel (256 where i'm at)


and i know i'm a bad speller Embarrassed but i try

and  Grouse  i know that the technology surrounding the feild of anti-matter and anti- protons is farly new up untill about a couple of years or so i knew what a partical accelerated  was but didn't know what it did then i saw that one show that said that they make anti-matter by speeding up atoms or something like that. Once again i don't know alot ... excuse me "A LOT" but i'd really like to learn more.


and Almost Famous i don't know if my school does or not. My school is really small only about 350-400 kids all together in 9th through 12th grade. But i will check into it

peace
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