Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I don't want this to be a political thread for starters.

I can't and i really mean it, I just can't stand it when people say that they're proud of "their" race or "their" country and they hate so and so country.

To be honest i think it's all pathetic. I ain't proud of being british and i aint proud of being Pakistani origin as i see it;s nothing to be proud of. Whoever the government is wouldn't bother me so rulings doesn;t play a part in it. I just generally don't see why people say such things or feel such things. I see it as we're all human and this is my planet as well as everyone else's so thus i don;t understand nationalism (not too political).

Anyone care to explain or points of view?

You lack the ideals of your ancestors, which happens to a lot of people living in the modern world. Interestingly, the liberal media holds people to a double standard. Those from strong, successful cultures are criticized for what their ancestors did in the past, but they are shunned for expressing pride in their ancestor's accomplishments. In a truely neutral worldview, one would judge neither accomplishments nor shames. We don't have that.

Nationalism accepts different cultures as organic entities with holistic ideals. This goes against the current order of globalism, pseudocapitalism, multiculturalism, and egalitarianism. It's easier to sell products, ideologies, and lies to people without a strong cultural background.

We have been stuck in this mess ever since WWII ended, and it has only gotten worse since the fall of the USSR. We need China to become a stronger rival.

www.anus.com

so who would you stand up for if some other country attacked britain? sit on the fence?

and this is not one big happy world you know...your statements are commendable but naive

and just imagine if there were no individual cultures in this world...if we all bought the same products and taught the same way...and if all the people wore the same clothes...what a poorer place this world would be...thats what globalism is doing to the world, it will lead us all into monotony...its the pop world but on a bigger scale...

not all nationalism is the bad nationalism that derogates other countries or races...its not as if people really care what happens in a country thousands of miles away, they care what happens around them...

Sakib, there's nationalism and then there's jingoism.   Guess which one causes threads to get locked in the Jungle  ;)

Since you have roots & association with 2 very different places/cultures, you can see things globally. I would say that is an advantage for you.  But sometimes it is convenient and even useful to filter the world down to one way of thinking or one single ideal in order to get a job done. 

i.e. Democracy vs. Fascism during WW2.  A dose of healthy nationalism got the job done, and then we made up with the enemy via the Marshall Plan, etc, etc.

A couple of weeks ago, I read about India's space program and how we (I mean the US) are planning to send some of our instruments on board their ships.  Well, I think these global ventures are a good thing, but the nationalistic side of me proudly supports our own homegrown American private enterprise expeditions into space.  I want that to succeed, I want to be proud of American entrepreneurship succeeding over bulky government organizations, global or not.

I'm not locking this thread.  It's not political as far as i'm concerned, so there's nothing wrong with it.

I also see nothing wrong with national pride, but I do agree with Skib's fundemental point that we're all living on the same planet and that we shouldn't let imaginary boarders change the way we view others.  I can't wait till after uni when I can travel around and get to view other cultures and meet people from around the world.  I imagine there will be many friendly people and many rude people - just like back home.

If France went to war on Britain, it depends why they're going to war. If they're going to do turn is all into slaves and makes us have poor living conditions (doubt they'd do that but this is purely an example) then sure i'd fight for Britain. If it's just for power but i don't see anything wrong with the laws they set upon britain then yeh i'd sit on the fence.

EDIT; I don't mind different cultures i do mind the "Indians have better culture then Pakistanis" or "Pakistani culture is more enjoyable than the Arabs"- (i've heard that one, trust me) unless the culture involves something insane such as mass murder.

To me, stuff like all that "proud to be American" crap is pointless.  Why be proud of something you have no control over?  It's good to be proud of an accomplishment of yours, like pride in being a great guitar player after years of work, or proud of your cooking abilities.  Cultural pride to me is meaningless.  Enjoying and following traditions of your culture is a good thing-- don't get me wrong on that.  However, saying you're proud to be American, British, French, Azerbaijanian, etc. is pointless.  Does anyone go around saying "Woo hoo!!!  yeah!!  Blue-eyed pride!!"  or go marching around talking about how they're proud to have brown hair?  Not that I've seen.  Ethnic and national pride, no matter what the race or ethnicity, is stupid.

Flame away.

Man, the American's go so far overboard with national pride that they can't even see the boat anymore.  I feel embarassed for you guys whenever I see that damn flag on TV.  *shudder*


As for sitting on the fence when the French invade - fuck that!  I really, really don't want go to war (trust me, i'm not the kinda guy that would live to tell the tale).  Still, given what our grandparents went through to keep the Germans out in WW2 I would feel ashamed to sit back and let our country get taken over.

"proud to be an american crap"

arent your accomplishments part of what makes up your country?

numerous generations of my family lived in my country, and they were a part of building this country, a part of its history, a part of its culture...i dont really understand your attitude...this attitude feeds standardisation and globalisation and not enough individuality imo



yes, but thats not just nationalistic pride, there are other factors involved like governments using nationalism to their advantage...you can choose to be critical and a nationalist...thats the problem, the nationalism is far too intermingled with government policies

I don't see how that relates to nationalism. The USA is one country, and do all people buy the same products there? Or wear the same clothes?

I also disagree that globalism leads the world to monotony, in fact it increases diversity.

I agree with this post 100%.? To say that pride for one's country is the same as pride for one's eye color is just ridiculous.? There are certain ideals - which whether we always hold up to them is debateable - that have historically set this country apart or have defined this country.? In general, people are expressing their pride in being part of these ideals.? Each country has its own history and ideals, just like the United States.? If you are from England is it stupid to root for England inthe world cup?  How is having pride in one's city, neighborhood or home any different.  Each country has had a history of trials and tribulations that help define it and make it unique from others.?

For some reason there is this mentality that if people have a strong sense of nationalism it means that they hate all other countries or don't recognize what is good about other countries.  Having pride in one's country and recongizing the positives of other countries are not mutually exclusive positions.
Having pride in one's country and reconizing the merit of other countries' culture and history are not mutually exclusive.?

This may not have anything to do with your post, and probably is going to sound somewhat racist....but I really wish more mexicans were proud to be mexican, and actually wanna stay in mexico. (i know, immigration is a whole other subject, something i feel very strongly about, so I won't even start to get into it here.

Something that pisses me off is when black people say they are proud to be black, it is alrirght, but when white people say they are proud to be white, they are made out to be racist.

I'm damn proud to be finnish, it's what my grandparents fought for. And died for.

I'd hapily take up the arms and join the front if anyone thought invading.

It's propably a lost fight anyone, but that was what it should be the last time.

Put more mines on our borders.

I don't agree that much to Sakib views, I think history or nationality shouldn't be forgotten, there's been mistakes, sure and maybe there's something to be learned from that. But it also the "base" of what someone will be. For an example I'd live an completely different life would be raised in some Arab country, or States or United Kingdom.

Sakib.. you don't really want to go calling me pathetic, do you?  :hihi:

How so?




That is because most of the people who say it are racist.......




They are proud to be Mexican. But not proud living on two dollars a day, that is all.

I am proud to be an American. I'll fly my flag where ever and how ever I want .There is nothing wrong with flying the flag or being patriotic. I have a cross with an American flag on one leg and then an Italian flag tattooed on my forarm.

How could you not take pride in who you are and where you came from and who your ansesters(sp?) were.

yeah.. what BLS said... anyways Americans do it better anyways......

the fact that you are american is just one big randomness coincidence. do you know that ?


anywa, i agree with Sakib and Duffman23235.

what's interesting also, is that the most patriotic countries in the world would be
 - the united states of america : a young country with NO history.
 - islamic / extremist / identity? troubled countries like : israel, palestine, iran ...

i mean, french don't give a fuck about their countries, and that's fun, i mean, we love our wine and cheese that's it ;)

BerkeleyRiot points out that in some ways people are part of their country' achievement.
yeah. theorically. but when you get down to it, the more the person does, the less they are tied to their country.

take a random fat ass at wall mart with his redneck truck : helluva patriot
take some great american scientist : it's all about hard work and studies, fuck usa he'd say
take some great sport player : it's about god, his team, his training ... and then his country.

the more you do, the further you are from the global environment : your country.

you think people at l'oreal give a fuck about france. they don't.

nation pride will a big issue : world globalization of economy, globalization of terror and political issue, everything is global ...

i mean, if you study 4 years in the us, then do an internship in japan, then work for a french company, then marry a brazilian woman, are you really from country X anymore ?

proud of your country ? really ? how far ? do you like everything your country does ? or do you just like what fits your ideas ?

1st your ancesters are certainly not from the us of a.
second, the fact that you can't spell some of your language words makes it all funny :)

thats somewhat true. Im american, lived in japan for 5 years, philippines for 2 years, married to a filipina and i feel different than most americans when it comes to most shit... we do things the best thats only coz we have the best from all countries.

o couldn't agree more. I'm proud that i'm predicted and will inshallah achieve excellent GCSE grades and i've got many certificates of achievement. I'm not proud of being related apparently to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) or of being a British citizen.

you are the kind of person who nationalism a bad name...you do it best eh? maybe you should have a look at a previous thread where, in a poll,  most americans couldnt find their country on a map...


I think you would be surprised, do you think companies like Nike or Adidas sell only in the US for example


multinational corporations will always try to maximise profits...selling the same products in different countries is just one way they do this

what about languages dying out or being spoken far less often, thats been happening and it will continue to happen...just look at the recent Eurovision song contest, just about every entry was sung in English...and thats culture, and its saying adios

i find it funny when watching adverts for countries, for instance i saw one about turkey and its trying to emphasize its history and culture...to me it just comes across as forced or cheesy, its not really what the country is about...

whatever... who cares... yeah we do everything the best... and you know it... who cares what your poll says or who can find what on what map...means shit to me.... dont care... fuck it.. coz i bet what ever kind of silly country you sititng in right now hasnt been to the moon or sent things to mars or even has shit to do with dick in the big picture... piss off..

and what is turkey about smart guy? who gives a god damn rats ass about turkey or chad or egypt or venezuala or any of those other no name shit places on the map that dont mean shit about anything... if they were so concerned about trying to emphasize thier history and cultrue then stop trying to act american. dont buy our clothes or watch our movies or listen to our bands.. listen to some bullshit turkey band or a band from Chad.... bet you they dont want to do that coz you know why? it sucks. it would suck shit.... you just proved my point... americans do it better and thats fact... you cant post whatever shit you want about our problems and what you want but still you all wear levi jeans, listen to guns n roses, drink jack daniles and smoke marlboro smokes...  all american made...

i would love to see you do a job interview man ;)
knowledge and curiosity just flow out from your pores.

i guess you can be a janitor, you don't have to know anything about geography :)

lol yeah i guess so..

but since you brought it up i work for the Missle Defense Agency.. i know quite a bit about geography.. and esp N Korea.. another stupid shit country.. i know all thier little sites and alot more ... who cares anyways coz those countries have shit anyways... fuck em all ..

To go back to the point about globalism bringing monotony, I think this may just be a case of confusing two similar terms-- globalism and globalization.  To me, globalism is the fact that many cultures exist on one planet-- this can help to promote diversity.  Globalization, meanwhile, is the attempt to further one or two major cultures around the globe.  The latter will provide monotony as everyone will become one in the same.  The former may cause some monotony as eventually a lot of people may take pieces of other cultures and put them all together into just a single "earth culture" composed of pieces of many cultures.

Who knows, just my two cents.

And also, in regards to the comments about being proud to be American meaning being proud of the country's accomplishments, Those are two different things.  An American, by a dictionary definition, is simply one born in America.  A person born in American but living in, for example, Brazil is still technically an American.  It is possible to be American and have nothing to do with the country's accomplishments.  Something like that should be phrased more likely "I'm proud of America's accomplishments" rather than "I'm proud to be an American."

I know, it's mostly semantics, but still, I just wanted to get all of that off my chest.

You are so right.

people that are not proud of their nationality because it's "random", must not be proud of their family either (since that is random as well).

which means you're not proud to share the blood of your ancestors and all they achieved in life.

that makes me feel sick to my stomach. i can only imagine how your families must feel.

not right
white people do not share some grave history / past.
come on. don't be a fool. you are theorically right, but come on ....

you can be proud of your family, of the people you know, of the people around you

but your country ... man, that's 300 millions !
gimme a break.

you have no history. you're just a drop in the ocean.

i, on the opposite, matter a lot, cause i rock. :)

You bring up the past like alot of people do. And that's the bad part. Everyone wants to live in the past. There's never a move forward, completely.

Kockstar, your views are arrogrant and naive. ?Maybe if you actually visited some of those countries you made fun of you might have a more objective opinion, or maybe you'd realise that America really isn't that interesting in comparison.

didnt you read ? he works for the Missle Defense Agency !!!!

Random or not I will still take pride in where I come from. And the US.. We have our own history and just because we are a rather new country compared to the others around the world doesn't mean shit. I take pride in my country and those countries in which my family came from cause it all makes up who I am as a person. Random or not.. It's who I am and Im damn proud of that.

What do we do the best?

my country ahs probably invented more things per head than any other country in the world dimwit

the country i live in, invented television, telephones, tarmac, radar, logarithms, whisky, anaesthesia, the first cloned mammal,  microwave ovens and the modern day economics your country now uses.

and discovered brownian motion, penicillin, insulin to name but a few

..not to mention this man http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Carnegie who just happen to use most of his enormous fortune for the benefit of others

your pathetic attitude gives reason for people to look east for inspiration and culture rather than west...and the only dick to be seen, is up your arse

jack daniels...i wouldnt exactly call that real whisky  :hihi: drink Scottish whisky, you know, the real stuff  :hihi:

and btw, after a wee search, marlboro was actually begun in London  :hihi:

Levi Strauss was born in Germany  :hihi:

oh and Slash just happens to be English, not completely American made you know  :hihi:

His response was provocative, but it doesn't make it right for you to insult him like that. You're smarter than that.

i apologise, sometimes my passions get ahead of me as you probably know by now..and its nice to know im not universally looked down upon, cheers

i have very mixed views on this sort of thing and i never can generally make my mind up.

ok the best example of the type of things that piss me off are, funnily enough today, myspace bulletin someone had sent round some chain mail of a poem taking piss out of chavs, now thats fine cause i hate chavs. the chorus though was t he bit that annoyed me "x white chavs", i found that rather annoying as there are many, black and indian etc chavs too, so why single out the whiteman, yes, the stereotypical chav is white, but they base themselves on stereotypical black rapper icons. and if someone had put a song saying "x black chavs" there would have been account lockings etc and i just find the racial balancing very biased.

i agree on the everyone lives on the same planet, but when youve got idiots like Hitler (making people have something against germans) or i cant even remember his name the man that organised 9/11 (making people very, in a way scared of the middle eastern born community) i think racial equality just wont be gained. i mean humans are naturally competative, so competing races is probably natural.

anyways thats my oppinion lol. btw may i make very clear now i have no problem with any other race, i treat every person with the same attitude. They are fine with me and i will be fine with them, if they choose to be a dick and become a problem in my life then i will do the same.

This is a difficult one for me. I'm sure a lot of you know that I'm very liberal in my beliefs, so in that respect I have a certain disregard for national boundaries and cultural difference. But at the same time I love my country (Ireland) and am proud of it's history, it's heritage and it's various cultural activities; traditional music, sports etc. I suppose if I was made to choose I would be in favour of nationalism provided it is passive, I see nothing wrong with someone being proud of their country, as long as this doesn't breed hatred or prejudice, and that there is a respect for other cultures, for instance I have an interest in far Eastern cultures such as Japan, as well as many others, i.e Africa, France.

Clearly the good 'ole U.S. of A also has the best education system in the world too. ?:rofl:

And everyone who's from a loser silly country better make way for #1!

haha *resists saying alot of things to own  kockstar999s ass* it would get political if i said what i though to you.

hehe i think i know what country you are reffering to  :peace: , but you forgot one thing.....hovis best of both  :rofl:

on the the more serious side. his kockstars earlier comments saying that egypt was of no importence was absolutly retarded, they were one of the first civilisations, they built things like the pyramids (which later inspired pyramid tea bags) when they had no machines, some of the things today that t hey made cannot be understood, there whole relationship to do with the stars is very interesting stuff.

Don't make us come up there and "liberate" you............

Id call for the country that removed Hitler and took Berlin :hihi:

problem there is. every war ive seen the USA come into, and late, is because they would financially benefit.

oh and not to mention your leader is insane and a threat to the world until he is removed. anyways ignore that but it had to be stated.

I wouldn't worry about Jeb, after Dubyas run nobody will want another Bush, not for a while anyway.

It ain't gonna happen............

Everybody is jumping ship. W has hit an political iceberg and is sinking fast. Do you really think that his stupid brother will have a chance after this mess?

thats why i said we have the best of all the countries.... doesnt matter where it came from origanly its american now isnt it?

Im damn proud to be american.. and my ancestors are americans.. Maybe you just have nothing to be proud of.. when was the last time the french had something to be proud of? I have nothing against the french but its pretty funny when they bash americans..

(http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/4025/pepelepew4yx.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

90% of wars, at least, are fought for economic reasons. The first law of economics is scarcity. Fundamental beliefs in biology are that all species reproduce more than needed, and the strong survive. Putting these 2 fields together explains most wars.

US vs. EU on foreign aid

Europeans frequently criticize the U.S. for not giving as much foreign aid as they do. The Oxford Analytica think tank, though, has gone beyond governmental giving and concluded that "if private donations are included in this analysis, the United States is among the most generous donor countries in the world." The U.S. governmentally gave 16.3 billion dollars in aid in 2003, but religious organizations contributed $7.5 billion, private foundations and corporations $6 billion, and universities $2.3 billion by providing scholarships that support students from developing countries. Individuals also made donations. Europeans give much less privately, often believing that social problems should be taken care of by governments.


Ahh Bleeding heart european liberals are quick to hate the US.. But lets see them empty there pockets!

Stay on topic.

Just stop it.

The foreign aid is based on GDP, and the USA places near the bottom.

first, if you read what i said, you'd understand that i dont care about my nationality or country, so bash the french as you want, it makes me smile :)

second, i say it again, your ancestors are not americans, their most likely french, irish, belgian, or what ever, ..... unless you're a native american.

;)

there was an article about that in today's paper
an example,
private american foundation donations,
                   3 billions for foreign issues
                   30 billions for national issues

but lets not go on that matter, american private foundation do a lot and give a lot, so that's good.

why are you calling me a communist? does calling for help from a christian country automatically make you a christian? no of course not...this is a typical response you get from Americans who cant deal with being second best even though they are second best in so many ways, including attitude
slash will always be english
you can keep marboro, gives you cancer
whisky isnt yours matey, we make it and we make the best in the world, the original product, everything else is a copy
and most jeans are made in the far east :hihi:

well it wont be long before China comes along and buys more and more of your companies, that would make the products Chinese wouldnt it?

They got IBM............. :o

Who is next?

why are you keep bringing up slash? who gives a rats ass .. Slash prolly has an American passport and is an american citizen.. the point was who's countrys music do most countrys listen to? American music, and films are the most popular... not some local band for a country called Chad or Sudan or Greenland...? and i told you why its the most popular is coz its the best.... coz americans do it better.. you cant try to split hairs and trace Marlboro or Jeans or Jack Daniels or any other piece of americana back hundreds or thousands of years and say its not really ours.. but the fact is it is american.. America has the best of all countrys and thats what makes it the best.. the best at everything...its the best at everything coz it has the best from everywhere..?

kind of funny that china hasnt been to the moon or mars yet have they.? blah. americans do it better than anyone and you know it.

OK I've ignored up til now but you're bigotry has gone to far at this point. Don't you realise that this is exactly why you guys have a negative image now adays? America surely is a great country when it is run properly but you are not the best at everything, by a long way. China may not have been to Mars or the moon but they built the only monument on the planet visible from the moon, before modern America even existed. Take you're head out of your arse please.

Some Americans really make me sick with their "Patriotism"? ::)? Make's me wish my country would have never sold New york? :hihi:

And cockstar you have to be the most naive person ever!? :rofl: Thank god all Americans aren't like you or I would be one of al qaeda's biggest supporters? :beer:? ;)

The great wall of china is not the only man made thing visible from space.. thats not true...

here we go again tracing back 100s of years to make it seem like where ever yoru from has anything to do with the success of new york...

intelligent...

yeah the Missle Defense Agency building is ..... ? lol cracker ;)

cockstar : you are NOT american, i bet your ancestors are from beligum or finland or what ever looser  country you want ....




ps: finish got a problem with that ? ;)

no dude im american.. parents are american.. grandparents and great grand parents are american.. .. here you go again trying to trace shit back decades and hundreds of years to try to say that nothing is american...? ? but the fact is america does it better coz it has the best from everywhere...? split all the hairs you want and say that hundreds of years ago egypt might have invented the wheel or something but now in 2006 who cares about egypt or chad or zimbabwe coz those places are shite! and dont mean dick to the global picture.

what an intelligent reply . 

You can't see the great wall of china from space.? that's a myth.? If you're going to refute someone with an (lame) example, at least have something factual.

Prove me wrong. And you haven't adressed the rest of my post.


I disagree : http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=4840
http://www.chinapage.com/china-space.html

And a quote:  according to American astronaut Eugene Cernan, speaking during a visit to Singapore: "In Earth's orbit at a height of 160 to 320 kilometres, the Great Wall of China is indeed visible to the naked eye."

 ?If you have something against nationalism or patriotism (just exactly what do those terms means cause I think alot of people confuse the two) that's fine and your right. ?But don't knock America as some immigrant or young country. ?All countries, albeit France, Japan or even Cuba are immigrant countries. ?It's just not as if people sprouted up in Russia or have always been there since the big bang. ?Every country is a country made up of immigrants if you take it back far enough.
 ? I consider myself American, although my ancestors are all of Germanic decent. ?I don't call myself a German or German-American. ?I take pride in the fact that my elected leaders are willing to take a stand for something and just not stand on the sidelines. ?I take pride in being part of the American-military machine. ?I can take pride in all of these because I am part of the system no matter how small or insignificant; just like the sense of pride you get when your favorite football team wins. ?It seems it's the cool thing now to knock America and if that gets you through your day more power to ya. ?No amount of hatred or pride is going to change the fact that America has more influence (good or bad) on the world than any other nation. ?Like Aristotle said, everything in moderation. ?It seems that lately there's been an abundance of hatred and ignorance going on though.

ok, Jamie that is an enhanced picture.? You couldn't see that with the naked eye from space (which I assume is what your original claim was; if not then what's the big deal about seeing any small object from space then.)? And, I might add that you're using NASA (whammo, an American entity) to prove your point.? Doesn't Ireland have a space agency?

Fine then if you'll look at my post again you'll see a similar picture taken from a European shuttle, the second link. And I'll admit Ireland does not have a space agency, certainly not one I've heard of, as we don't have the financial resources to explore space, but at least I'll admit and not try and say, although I love my country, that we're the best in the world at everything.

(Edit):
Plus my aim is not to bash America, I have admitted here:


that America is can be a great country. Just because I don't agree with your current government (which I will say nothing more about for fear of the thread getting too political) does not mean I hate your country in every way, far from it. That would make me a hypocrite. All I am pointing out is the evident bigotry of some of the people posting in this topic, and their refusal to admit that America is not the beginning and end of the planet.

I dont need to prove you wrong.. just do a google search and you can prove yourself wrong.. and there wasnt anything else to address in the rest of your post... a bunch of opinion followed by telling me to pull my head out of my ass..

you didnt address anyhting that i said.. why do most coutrys watch american movies, tv, and listen to american bands? surely they have alternatives in thier own countrys dont they? ill tell you why coz they want the best and we deliver...  would you rather listen to a garge band from greenland or listen to Alice Cooper?

yes it is... everywhere in the world is or can be influenced in some why by what we do... 

The Gunslinger is correct.. you cannot see the Great wall with the naked eye from space.. that is a satelite image that is zoomed in.. Do i need to post satelite images of my house and say that my house is visible from space!

Kockstar you have every right to be proud of the US.. I Am.. FYI.. More foriegners serve in our military then any other countries military!

And Wat EVER im totally bugn..

I think its quite obviouse you dont like americans.. Cause i remember your post saying NY Try to be french or some shit like that.. you just sound anti american and it makes me wish our American Grandfathers would have sat at home while the Germans took you country with ease.. I wish we would have just done like you all want us to do and mind our own buisness and stayed out of other countries affairs.. We could have just dealt with Japan and saved thousands of american lives and cost alot more of your lives.. You might not even be alive today if we would have done that!

Well ignoring everybody eles's aurguements... heres my thoughts

I believe personal acomplishments and experiences should define a person. Not their race, nationality, family, ect.  I define myself as an individual and I make my choices based off of my own beliefs.

When people view themselfs as "American" or "Black" or "Republican" they do themselfs a disservice and make self actualization near impossible. Also, pride related to groups, familys, orentations, ect. causes large problems and often  sparks racism, sexism, prejudism, ect. towards other groups of people.

For instance, there would have been no slavery if "white" people had never become prideful and arrogant towards the "black" people. If white people had defined themselfs as individuals instead of as "whites," there would have been no racism.

Im not saying people will always like each other, but as long as people are self-respecting individuals they can control their anger and dislike in a respectful manner.

In the end people should be independant because group association blinds people from self-actualization and reason.

Im sure I could have made this a bit more coherant... but for now this is it.

    -jack

I enjoy Irish beers more than American....they've been working on their favorite past-time for centuries now!

Buggin, is it true that the only reason that there are trees along the Seine was so that the Germans could march in the shade?

and that right there is why we have the best military... coz we have the best from all the countrys... and why do the best from all the countrys want to join or move to the US? simple.. coz they are the best and they want to be part of or surrounded by thier peers.. the best....

nah cause it looks cool and that way we can set up these shitty stores so that the fat ass american tourist can buy their 5 dollars postcards while wearing their white sneakers and ugly sweat pants :)

ahah kiddin. trees are just pretty.

-Jack- said it clearly.
alright the usa are great. fine.

what i hate is when a LOOSER , a failure, with a shitty job and shitty face and shitty brain , with no culture takes PRIDE from that.

if you're shitty, if you shop at wal mart with your flip flops on, and wear wifebeaters to work, if you never read a book, if you're ugly, if you're fat, then shut the hell up, american power and might is not your issue. you're not in the game.

if you're cool, good looking, with a cool job, read, know about the world, in one word: smart, then ok, you can be proud.

but if that thing here :

(http://www.dba-oracle.com/images/redneck_smoke.jpg)

is proud to be an american i say fuck that.

so in the end it's all about the person.

if you are a great person by what YOU DO, then fine be proud. of yourself.
if you're ust shitty and ugly, shut the hell up.
when i read an "american" who can't even write in english, i'm like, gimme a break .... [cf. page 2 "ansestors ?"]


:)

I have done a google search and I have come up with at least two space images showing the Great Wall from Space, plus and article stating that the wall was visible from the space shuttle, which you'll find the link to in my post on the previous page. And I am yet to find any images of other man made objects from outer space, if you have any I would love to see them and would immediately admit that I was at fault. And yes it was opinion but it was logical opinion, unlike your every country but America sucks opinions.

And fine I will adress what you said, I will admit that I like a lot of American films and music and a small number of TV programmes, but of my top 10 favourite bands, only 2, including GnR are American, I like more British and Irish Television than American ie Monty Python, Fawlty Towers, the Young Ones, Blackadder, Podge and Rodge etc. and like many Irish films, Intermission, Adam and Paul etc. ?many chinese films, Bruce Lee and Jet Li etc. and French films Taxi 1 and 2. And I'll admit that I'd rather listen to Alice Cooper than some random Greenland band, but I'd rather listen to Thin Lizzy or Black Sabbath than Alice Cooper.


Please see the article in my second link.

And there is a difference between national pride and bigotry, you have every right to be proud to be American, I'm proud to be Irish, but saying that every other country in the world is inferior to America in absolutely every way is racism not national pride.


Like what? Give me a decent example, beyond films and music, an example that can change the world in a way that has never been changed before.

so u just dont like fat americans who shop at walmart and dont read good books? you just like the ones you see on TV or in the Movies.. the cool looking ones...the good looking ones..the rich ones, or the ones with good jobs?

whatever... ?

Just Curious WAT Ever bugn shit!!

Since your so worldly what other countries have you visited?

Since im a Fat Dumb American I will list them for ya starting with Japan, Saipan, Hong Kong, Phillipines, Singapore, Aussie, South Korea.. hmm i think thats it.. Canada and mexico really dont count!

Jamie you will also find that alot of americans Take alot of pride in being Irish.. I know i do.. ahh what would i do if i was french..  :crying:

i was being stupid :)

i love you all !!! ;)

i dont give a fuck where you're from  ..... just try to spell ancestors right ;D

You have quite the persecution complex.




Yea, but did you learn anything while you were there?

Did you bring something back because of it? (Cold sore from Singapore does not count.)





I almost always spit my freedom fries out when I read a poster tell everybody how awesome the USA is, while misspelling everything at the same time.

why? What have i achieved being a member of my family? I'm proud of what my family have done to benefit us but why our nationality? different issue totally.

Yea, quite the stretch.

Ignorance from America's side you mean, thinking that "they" do not need the rest of the world? ::)




and Cockstar are you really that naive to think that people in other countries only listen to American music? or watch American movies, or their crappy tv shows? and do you really think that people in America only listen to American music or watch American movies etc...? If that's the case than I feel sorry for you because you're one deluded and narrowminded person? :no:

no i dont think that.. i didnt even say that... reread, or dont reread... matters not.

btw isnt this thread about "Racial Pride"... not national pride?

in that case im sure you all hate me... Im a white american male age 30 so everyone in the world has a reason to hate me..  blacks, hispanics, women, muslims, gays all have thier own cause or crusade and im to blame.....

Thats me.. the 30 year old, White, American Tattooed Male..... everyones enemy....

There is not always an American solution to every world problem........





Don't believe everything you think...........

i cba to find all the times you say about why does everyone watch american stuff etc etc.
maybe cause its shoved down our throats, maybe because america owns channels like mtv they shove there nation mainly down everyones throats, there many british bands and swedish and finish bands that have got more quality than any american band have right now. Your country is so big and has a large population and made use of wars to get its profit up hence it being a big country...at the moment. Every country falls, it happened to you in the 30s and it will happen again just like it does to every country, so please, stop making yourself look any more foolish than you already are.

yeah we forced you to subscrbe to MTV and watch it... ...We have such a large population compared to say China or India and they have "Bollywood" lol.. another rip off from the americans... ..

if there are soo many british, swedish and finish bands that are sooo much better than american bands why havent i heard of them? Im sure if they were sooo much better they would have gotten an international recording deal trying to make some "american dollars" or toured "the states" ... but you know what? nobody has heard of these bands.. you know why? coz they suck and arent good enought to tour the world or the states or anywere out of Finland, Sweden or Chad or the Dominican Republic... you know why? they arent the best... only the best bands tour worldwide and have world wide success.. and for the most part it is american bands... 

Not every country fails... If we "failed" in the 30's as you say we wouldnt be here today would we? pretty good rebound wouldnt you say from "faliure" to the best in 60 years....  stop making yourself look any more foolish than you already are

hehe keep talking asshole because in fact all of those bands have toured the states and toured other countries like japan. Oh yeah and your moon landing, ever heard of area 51?

what bands are they? ?who is "there many british bands and swedish and finish bands that have got more quality than any american band have right now"

This isnt a music thread whos is better... but for debate it proves that nobodys is as influencial or popular as americans are.. ?

Ive never heard of Area 51... please teach me about it and all you know about the moon landing....stop making yourself look any more foolish than you already are

oh purlease, music is subjective, anyone who tries to reason music is better from one continent that another needs their head examined....the reason so many american bands are well known is the gross marketing that comes hand in hand with their popularity, the reason you dont know many European bands stems from your ignorance and the fact that European bands cant compete money wise with promotion in comparison with the US, plenty of great European bands but then again, its all subjective

i didnt want to make it a music thread.... and whats the reasons they cant compete moneywise??? coz nobody competes with us.... coz we are the best

Want a tape measure to tell us how much bigger our dicks are too?  ::)


(http://img289.imageshack.us/img289/161/tapemeasure9va.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

thats not true.. i piss on my balls.

That looks to be 3 inches on the dot ;D

We may have to aruge that Americans are more honest now..........

Although maybe it is a vision thing rather then being endowment challenged?

 :P



Speak for yourself..............

True it is only 3 inches, but it's a fat max

Kokstar you're a fool. You and few others maybe are turning this into a debate about politics, music etc. It's a debate about should we be proud of our country or race.

Proud is such an odd word to pair with those things.

You had no choice where you were born or what skin color you are. Race is sociological creation rather than a biological one. IE our genes are the same.

Staying focused on these things seems a way to keep people divided and gets in the way of human growth and development.

(As Chris Rock says -I'm paraphrasing "What makes you think you're so special because you came out of a pussy in Detroit" To then turn around and say ?USA is so awesome, rah rah rah?. Seems so???dumb.)

thats Sakib! I thought we were debating should we be proud of our country or race... your input has been noted and next time i will try to remember what Sakib told me. ?Iam such a fool.... :no:

My pride in my race (the HUMAN race, FYI) fluctuates from day to day, minute to minute, depending on the actions of my fellow man.

To quote a great man talking to a great frog:

"Big city, hmm? Live. Work, huh? But. Only peoples. Peoples is peoples. No is buildings. Is tomatoes, huh? Is peoples, is dancing, is music, is potatoes. So, peoples is peoples. Okay? "

skinny people > fat people
beautiful people > ugly people
rich > poor
smart > dumb
fast > slow
young > old


society and success has nothing to do with your nation or race.

some of us here will band more hot women than some others will ever watch on his computer
some makes more money at 23 years old than some others at 30


it's all that matters. you can be american, indian, mongolian, what ever you want. ;)


but i love you all, really !!!

Ever heard of "The Beatles", the most influential band of all time?

The most annoying thing about Racial pride is the way people get offended.

Lots of black people always call white people "Honkeys" or "White boys"...

...and if the white people return it like calling them "N*ggers" or "Black boys" they get real offended because of their double standards. Thats one thing that really drives me crazy. Also, if you say to a black person that you don't like them, they automatically assume its because of their race and it makes me sick that people think everything in this world is to do with race.

i also hate it how black people can call each other niggers, that makes no sense to me. especially when they do it in acting, a white 8 year old for example watches a movie and a black man calls another black man a nigger, hes gonna think its alright, so he goes and calls someone a nigger, well you do the math.

i agree. Honkeys???? what the hell is that? First time i heard that word to do with race. Me and my m8 call mules Honkeys as they're a cross breed of horses and donkeys

bull honkeys !!!

From the ever informative wikipedia.com:

""Honky" was probably derived from Civil War era "Yankee". It could also possibly a combination of the Wolof word honq meaning pink or pale and hunky, an alteration of bohunk, a nineteenth-century pejorative term for an Eastern European. "

Hunky was also the term used in Eastern Europe for a menial worker.

I am:

A half Jew/Russian
Half Irish/Scotch

And 100 percent don't give two shits and a flying fuck.

In the relative short term it leads to diversity. In the long run, it leads to monotony.

what the hell is globalism?

http://www.harlemglobetrotters.com/start.asp

i dont get it

He was being funny.   :hihi:

Kockstar, I like you man.  You crack me up most of the time.  It seems to me that you say things on here just to get people pissed at you.  Sure, at the core you beleive what you say, no question, but you say it in such a way that just makes me laugh.  There is a certain "Sawyer" quality about your approach (refering to the great American TV Show "Lost").

Do we in fact (as Kockstar has said repeatedly) do things better than everyone else?  Well not everything.  But one thing we do do better than everyone else is pop culture.  That's a fact folks.  TV, movies, music, fads, etc....we definately have a global strangle hold on those things.  Funny how a place with a very short history and no real culture of our own (not counting the Indian culture we destroyed when we took this country), can in such a short period of time dominate popular culture.  Kind of a show of strength really.

I am proud to be an American.  Sure, it was luck that I was born here instead of someplace in South America or Africa.  Therefore it may be more appropriate to say I'm proud of my luck.  Damn I'm lucky!!!

Charity Case, i don't understand, why does being American make you lucky? I'm sure you;d have had as much luck being Japanese or British or Morrocan

that's what the internet calls a TROLL

I know what an internet troll is, but it still makes me laugh because he's getting to some of you.

And what I meant about being lucky is.....I consider myself extremely lucky to have been born in the US as opposed to Mexico, Haiti, Cuba, France, Guatamala, Africa, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Sudan, Yemin, United Arab Emerites, Afganistan, Russia, Iceland, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc, etc, etc.  My point is that if where you are born is all luck as some have indicated in this thread (correctly), then I consider myself lucky because I could have been born in any of those countries/continents I mentioned above which would suck ass compared to being born in the US IMO.   : ok:  Of course there are places I'm sure are just as good as being born here like Canada, England, Ireland, Germany, Finland, Japan, etc.  But when it comes right down to it, after having traveled a bit around the world, there is just no place I'd rather be than the good old U S of A.  Just a personal preferance is all.

Isnt it grand to have won the birth loto? ... lol.... yes it is fun to get to some of them... its sooooooo easy..

makes us less bored sometimes, so thanks ;)

but trollin is ridiculus man, you suck.

anyway, americans are fat and dumb and they're all gonna die in plane crashes.
;)

edit: wait, except for my girlfriend and her family, and my friends there, and the nice ones .... yeah whatever ...

reading that post reminds me of watching the gay porn service menof the grand USA(marines ,army , navy, airforce). (and you thought ya knew it all).

predudice sucks anyway you slice it dice it, tottaly buggin , rock on! :)

Well yeah it is quite easy to get to people by being a bigot, that's something people don't look at very kindly nowadays, at least people with a sense of morality anyways. I could think of thousands of ways to offend people over the internet but I'm not gonna do it just because it's easy. That's just acting stupid.

Come on now.  He's not being a bigot and to label him so is just wrong.  You can disagree with him, but don't pull the racist card for god sakes.   ::)

He's just trying to get under your skin by stating the the US is the best at everything and that the rest of the world sends its best to the US only making the US better.  He says it in a way that just gets under your skin is all.  But being a bigot...I see no hatred toward any race or religion or ethnicity in his posts.  I just see pride in being an American.  Which is of course the topic of the thread.

I don't think it's wrong at all, he has mentioned many countries and many races in his little America is the greatest rants so therefore he is displaying bigotry. I would happily have disagreed with him if he didn't display these tendancies, I've disagreed with a few people in this thread and not called them bigots, because they're not displaying bigotry.


Yeah and what is the point in doing that, getting under people's skin by saying things like that is neither funny nor witty. And I have no problems with national pride, something I have already stated. I just don't like this my country is better than yours crap, and that in my view is racism

People don't like Americans just because of Bush/Iraq are stupid. Just because someone says that they are proud to be American doesn't mean that person loves Bush, war, and oil. I for one hate bush, I think he is the worst Pres. the US has ever had, but I love my country and because of the morals and beliefs it was founded on. So next time someone says they are proud to be American, don't assume that they are a bush/war loving and a gay-bashing asshole.

This post wasn't meant for anyone in particular, I was just skimming through this thread and thought it was the right place to put it.

Which was? No really i dont know what morals and beliefs you're chatting on about. As far as I know USA was built up by European nations in order to take control and get rid of the natives. So please really what am i missing here?

Sure, Sakib, the morals and values of the Arab people are sure ones to brag about!

Where the hell did Arabs come from? What the hell are you chattin on about? Now you dont make sense. What "Bragging" are we talking about? teach me

You're missing A LOT!  I think you need to pay more attention in school.  And if you graduated, I think you should consider going back. 

Americans have a lot to be proud of and a lot to be ashamed of (much like every country).  That nonsense that we have no history just makes me  ::)   Its not about quantity of time, its what you do with it.  I think certain Euro nations should recall what today is (and no, I don't mean 666 hahah) and maybe take the time to think about the Americans and other Allies who died at Normandy so they could have their freedom.

I don't feel offended by that comment one bit. I've learnt only sections of america for my history exam such as

-Foreign Policy USA 1910-29
-Change in society USA 1910-29
- STUFF about prohibition and wall street stuff and other bits n bobs i forgotten the title of the actual module. And also the League of Nations

On a SEPERATE exam

-USA 1929-1990 The wider world and USA's attitude aka foreign policy
- Stuff about hippies, New Deal, Consumerism, how usa benefited from WW2, Dust bowls, Hoovervilles, (4got module name)
- Race issue from 1929-1990; Rosa Parks, Elizabeth Eckford (i think thats her name), Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, KKK etc.

There you go, that's my syllabus. Got an exam on 1910-29 and germany 1919-1945 on friday actually and got the other one usa 1929-1990 next week.

btw, this is my final year of secondary school, got ma GCSE then college man. And i'd have just turned 16

so you admit to knowing less then 50% of the USA's history yet talk about the nations early beginnings even though you only studied the 2nd half.  I would take some more classes buddy  :hihi:

So nothing of the Marshall Plan, the Vietnam War, Regan?  It seems like you have a pretty PC class there.  Martin Luther King and Malcom X were great men (ecpsecially malcom X) but there only a small portion of 20th century history.  And Rosa Parks?  Give me a break, that woman did jack shit.  She was a secretary for the NAACP.  She wasn't the first and she wasn't the last black person to refuse to give up her seat; she just happen to get all the publicity.

Marshall Plan, Dawes plan yes, Vietnam yes but all that is under foreign policy. And as for knowing 50% of the history well i only talk about what i know hence the TEACH ME bit

regardless if she wasn't the first to refuse to give up a seat, she single handedly was the catalyst for the bus boycott which led to an organized and effective civil rights movement.  She was an icon.  Just an ordinary person who had had enough.  I think it took remarkable courage to do what she did.  I'd hardly say it was "jack shit".  She may not have been "the last person to refuse to give up her seat" but I imagine she inspired thousands to do so......

I don't think you should be coming to a GNR message board to learn about early american history  :hihi:   But I think what alexh0618 was referring to was freedom of speech, religion and press, seperation of church and state, as well as a democratically elected government without a king.  Read about the american revolutionary war as well, we were BIG TIME under dogs and came very close to losing a few times. 

I'm proud of been English, the only time when it becomes too much is when people believe anyone who is not from their country is a piece of shit who should die

About a low a blow as one could give. But considering the source............



Damn skippy.

And made more of an impact on our country?s history then the angry gun lover ever will.

Rosa Parks was better than MLK. She didn't plagiarize. She didn't have a massive movement behind her, either. But none of the famous civil rights "heroes" can match up to Marcus Garvey, W.E.B. DuBois, and the other black nationalists. Malcolm X was as close as it got. Today's icons, like Sharpton and Jackson, are worthless.

i know that. That's obvious but dream on. America was built on dreams not reality no offence to any American. Firstly there's no such thing as free speech, it doesnt exist. Secondly the WASPs were in control of USA and thus majority of immigrants were screwed as well as the native americans. So no offence but there;s no such thing

And this is from the same guy who said, "And as for knowing 50% of the history well i only talk about what i know".

Didn't you just say you didn't know about early american history!??!?! hahahah This dude is a trip.  I think the US has more free speech then a country like China or Iran or N. Korea.

maybe you should try less insults and more arguments on why you dont agree...

Personally, I think an arguement could be made that Muhammed Ali did more or African American's in this country than Rosa Parks and Malcolm X combined.  He was the first famous black athlete (person) that it bacame ok for white people to root for and in doing so it changed the opinons of alot of white people.  At the time, white people were more apt to follow sports than to follow African American leadership speeches and protests.  I remember my father telling me how the rise of Muhammed Ali (and his rise in popularity really) had a much more tangible impact on reducing racism in the US than Malcolm X or MLK (at least from his perspective - that of a white male).  I'm not sure if Ali in fact had more of an impact, but I think a strong arguement could be made.

Whatever American makes, the rest of the world takes.....

btw so long to that camel jockey Al Zarqarwi ... karma is a bitch isnt it you sick bastartd...

oh shut up and try to build stronger buildings. :)

they were strong enough.. the govermnet knocked them down...

you're a big fool. I did talk about what i know but no one is TEACHING ME ANYTHING! The only thing i've learnt is that you're hiding something or you're a fool. 4THE LOVE OF GOD, SHUT THE HELL UP AND MAKE ME LEARN!!!!
THERE's freer speach but NOT free speech

teaach me now