American Floyd Landis Wins 2006 Le Tour de France

[D]

I dont believe he is guilty.

The press want to slay cheaters so bad they jump the gun in my opinion.

The dudes testerone was high but not the performance enhancing testosterone which was actually low. The dude had been taking cortisone shots for his hip and Im sure thats what has his tests all fucked up.

[Mal Brossard]

i can't explain myself in english but in france everybody knows yes... many proofs of it.

Okay, I guess there's no reason trying to have a converstion/debate with you then.


About the drug test. Has anyone ever thought that testosterone levels in American men could actually just be higher then other men in other ocuntries? It is a genetic posibility.

This is a country that has only existed for 200-some years.  It would take much longer for genetic changes like you're suggesting to take place.

Besides, the normal radio of testosterone is 1:1.  It requires a 4:1 to set off a positive test via the Tour's testing standards.  Do you really think testosterone might NATURALLY be four times higher in American men rather than European?  And if so, why hasn't this shown up on several other Americans' tests?

A 4:1 ratio does not occur in anyone naturally unless they've got something going really wrong (such as an extra Y chromosome).  And the fact he hasn't tested positive before this makes it even more questionable that it's natural.

Let's get that B sample tested!

[Drew]

I dont believe he is guilty.

The press want to slay cheaters so bad they jump the gun in my opinion.

The dudes testerone was high but not the performance enhancing testosterone which was actually low. The dude had been taking cortisone shots for his hip and Im sure thats what has his tests all fucked up.

Great points D.

This is a country that has only existed for 200-some years.  It would take much longer for genetic changes like you're suggesting to take place.

Besides, the normal radio of testosterone is 1:1.  It requires a 4:1 to set off a positive test via the Tour's testing standards.  Do you really think testosterone might NATURALLY be four times higher in American men rather than European?  And if so, why hasn't this shown up on several other Americans' tests?

A 4:1 ratio does not occur in anyone naturally unless they've got something going really wrong (such as an extra Y chromosome).  And the fact he hasn't tested positive before this makes it even more questionable that it's natural.

Let's get that B sample tested!

But there still stands a possibility about the higher levels of testosterone in American men. Small maybe, but it's still there.

Good points made on why the high testosterone level havn't shown up before in previous test.

[Brody]

I dont believe he is guilty.

The press want to slay cheaters so bad they jump the gun in my opinion.

The dudes testerone was high but not the performance enhancing testosterone which was actually low. The dude had been taking cortisone shots for his hip and Im sure thats what has his tests all fucked up.

Yes.. I think your right on..

[D]

Landis however screwed himself by saying he has naturally high levels of testosterone.

This was ignorant in my opinion for him to say cause if that were true,  his other tests wouldnt have been negative.


Facts are he was struggling, and the day he went from 12th or whatever he was to first with a bullet is the day his levels were off.

I dont know, I want to believe him but its lookin kinda fishy.

[Brody]

On July 27, 2006 the Phonak Cycling Team announced that Landis had his "A sample" test positive in a drug test given to him after Stage 17, as part of the Tour's standard doping precautions. His "A sample" tested positive for an abnormally high ratio of the hormone testosterone to epitestosterone during Stage 17 of the race (B sample testing results which could confirm or refute A sample tests are not yet complete). On the same day the allegations were made public, Landis denied doping in order to win the 2006 Tour de France.

Landis has been suspended pending the results of a second test or "B sample." His team has stated he will be fired from the team should his B sample prove positive.[8] There is some debate as to whether the test necessarily proves doping.[9] In particular, hypothyroidism, which Landis has, causes low levels of SHBG, which in turn can cause relatively high levels of testosterone (since testosterone must bind with SHBG before it can be biologically processed out of the system). The net result is an accumulation of testosterone and an abnormally high T/E ratio. Even though he is on medication for his hypothyroidism, thyroid levels are notoriously unstable in those with hypothyroidism, even if taking medication[citation needed].

[Slashead]

Floyd Landis was doped. Period.
His performance in the 17th stage was, hmm, unbelievable. ?

[Communist China]

Floyd Landis was doped. Period.
His performance in the 17th stage was, hmm, unbelievable. ?

If he doped when they say he doped, it wouldn't have helped him in the 17th stage. These aren't short term drugs. You can't take a bunch of steroids, and the next day have a really good day. It doesn't work like that.

If steroids helped like that, athletes would take them day before for lots of events. Like the Super Bowl. They don't test you on Super Bowl Sunday. So if you wanted, you could take every steroid on earth on that Saturday. But it wouldn't make you any better.

[Slashead]

Floyd Landis was doped. Period.
His performance in the 17th stage was, hmm, unbelievable. ?

If he doped when they say he doped, it wouldn't have helped him in the 17th stage. These aren't short term drugs. You can't take a bunch of steroids, and the next day have a really good day. It doesn't work like that.

If steroids helped like that, athletes would take them day before for lots of events. Like the Super Bowl. They don't test you on Super Bowl Sunday. So if you wanted, you could take every steroid on earth on that Saturday. But it wouldn't make you any better.

Well, that's not the opinion of the experts. Testosterone is a stimulant that works instantaneously. Floyd needed that kind of thing to recover after being in difficulty during the 16th stage.

[Brody]

Floyd Landis was doped. Period.
His performance in the 17th stage was, hmm, unbelievable. 

If he doped when they say he doped, it wouldn't have helped him in the 17th stage. These aren't short term drugs. You can't take a bunch of steroids, and the next day have a really good day. It doesn't work like that.

If steroids helped like that, athletes would take them day before for lots of events. Like the Super Bowl. They don't test you on Super Bowl Sunday. So if you wanted, you could take every steroid on earth on that Saturday. But it wouldn't make you any better.

Well, that's not the opinion of the experts. Testosterone is a stimulant that works instantaneously. Floyd needed that kind of thing to recover after being in difficulty during the 16th stage.

No seriously It takes about 2 weeks.. thats coming from the experts

[Slashead]

Breaking news : 100 meter recordman Justin Gatlin doped.
Testosterone again...
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=sportsNews&storyID=2006-07-29T200735Z_01_L29766302_RTRUKOC_0_US-DOPING-GATLIN.xml

[Communist China]

Breaking news : 100 meter recordman Justin Gatlin doped.
Testosterone again...
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=sportsNews&storyID=2006-07-29T200735Z_01_L29766302_RTRUKOC_0_US-DOPING-GATLIN.xml

This isn't a doping thread, this is a Tour de France thread about Floyd Landis.

[Slashead]

This isn't a doping thread, this is a Tour de France thread about Floyd Landis.

You must be kidding...
By the way, testosterone seems to be very much in fashion lately.

[Mal Brossard]

"Naturally" high testosterone levels, eh?

Synthetic testosterone found in Landis sample
Associated Press


NEW YORK -- Lab tests show that some of the testosterone in Floyd Landis' urine sample taken at the Tour de France was synthetic and not naturally produced by his body as he had claimed, according to a newspaper report.

The French antidoping lab testing the American cyclist's samples detected that some of the hormone came from an external source, The New York Times reported on its Web site Monday night, citing a person at the International Cycling Union with knowledge of the result.

The result undermines the defense that Landis has stood behind since the news last week that he tested positive for an elevated ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone following his stirring comeback in Stage 17 of the Tour de France.

Landis won that Alpine stage and went on to claim the Tour title.

Earlier Monday, Landis officially requested the testing of his backup urine sample.

"We've sent the fax to the UCI this afternoon," said Jose Maria Buxeda, one of Landis' two Spanish lawyers, of the Swiss-based International Cycling Union. "Now we'll have to adjust to their calendar."

If the "B" test is negative, Landis would be cleared. If it's positive, the 30-year-old American would face formal doping charges and could be stripped of his Tour victory and banned for two years.

Buxeda said he's not sure when the "B" test will be carried out at the Paris doping laboratory, though it could be sometime this week. Landis, who has returned to the United States, is willing to attend the analysis depending on the date, Buxeda said.

Landis' lawyers say they fully expect the backup test to confirm the original finding.

Landis, speaking in Madrid on Friday, said his test results had nothing to do with doping and that the high level of testosterone in his body was the result of his natural physiology.

Testosterone is a naturally occurring male hormone that is banned when it is found in a ratio greater than 4:1 to another hormone, epitestosterone.

Oscar Pereiro of Spain, who finished second overall in the Tour de France, would be declared the winner if Landis loses the Tour de France title.

It would be the first time in the history of the Tour of France that the winner has been disqualified for doping.



And from ESPN...

"Since Landis' abnormal A sample was taken on a day that he turned in an extraordinary performance, making up eight minutes in a mountain stage on a solo breakaway, it seems logical to presume a cause-and-effect relationship. In the interest of balance, it should be mentioned that synthetic testosterone isn't generally used for instant recovery purposes, but taken in long cycles during strength training to help with workout recovery and build muscle mass. Cyclists aren't interested in bulk -- they worry about weight nearly as much as jockeys -- and if you've ever taken a look at their upper bodies, you know they're not doing a lot of lifting. A cyclist rifling the medicine cabinet for a quick fix would have been far more likely to get a transfusion, take a blood-boosting substance like EPO, or pop some speed -- all of which are now easily detectable in doping tests. There's no doubt that athletes do stupid things and are fully capable of taking an ill-advised or possibly ineffective drug in a given situation, but a number of experts raised their eyebrows over this result, which didn't recur in Landis' two subsequent tests at the Tour."

[Drew]

Landis' backup doping test result expected Saturday

By JAMEY KEATEN, Associated Press Writer
August 1, 2006

PARIS (AP) -- Tour de France champion Floyd Landis is expected to learn the results of his second doping test Saturday, and even if that sample is positive it could take weeks to decide if he will be stripped of his title.

Analysis of the "B" sample is expected to take place Thursday through Saturday at the Chatenay-Malabry lab outside Paris, the International Cycling Union said Tuesday.

If the "B" sample is negative, Landis would be cleared. If it is positive, which his lawyers expect, he could be stripped of his Tour victory and banned for two years. Landis could become the first Tour winner to lose the title in a doping case.

He will be given "due process" to defend himself before an arbitration panel -- which could delay any possible penalties -- if he continues to deny the allegations, UCI president Pat McQuaid said.

"It could take weeks," McQuaid told The Associated Press by telephone. If the test is confirmed, no penalties could be decided "until the disciplinary process is completed."

It could take even longer if the case goes to the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

Landis tested positive for an unusually high ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone following the 17th stage of the Tour de France, where he staged a remarkable comeback in the Alps to make up for a poor performance the day before.

The American cyclist has insisted that his body's natural metabolism -- not doping -- caused the result, and said he would undergo further tests to prove it.

The New York Times reported Monday that tests on Landis' "A" sample show some of the testosterone in his system was synthetic, putting his defense into question. The report cited a person at the UCI with knowledge of the result.

McQuaid said he had not seen the lab findings, and could not confirm the news report. He and other UCI officials said the union's rule book restricts release of such information.

"It's big news, certainly, but it doesn't change the protocol," McQuaid said. "It's not our policy to give out details about such cases."

UCI spokesman Enrico Carpani insisted the results of the test are confidential and no one at the governing body would have leaked results to the Times.

Landis' personal doctor, Dr. Brent Kay, of Temecula, Calif., said he hoped the results of Landis's carbon isotope ratio test and of the initial T/E test were false positives, the Times said. He did, however, acknowledge that the initial test found a ratio of 11:1 in Landis's system. He and Landis are seeking an explanation for that high level.

The results were expected to be released Saturday morning, Carpani said. The UCI asked the French lab to speed up its analysis before it closes for the holidays, officials said.

"The longer it goes until the 'B' sample is tested, the more speculation, and the more denial and the more of everything that goes on," McQuaid said.

Landis' lawyers in Spain filed an official request for the "B" test late Monday. The UCI had already filed its own request earlier Monday because of concerns about the case dragging on.

Landis' Swiss-based team, Phonak, said it wants the results as quickly as possible.

"The sooner that's done, the better it will be for the team," said Phonak team manager John Lelangue, who declined to answer any other questions.

On Friday, Landis said he would "explain to the world why this is not a doping case but a natural occurrence."

But after determining that Landis' ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone was more than twice the limit of 4:1, the lab performed a carbon isotope ratio test on the first of Landis' two urine samples to determine whether it's natural or synthetic, the Times reported.

UCI lawyer Philippe Verbiest confirmed that an isotope test had taken place, but refused to indicate the ratio or provide any other details of the first lab test.

Oscar Pereiro of Spain, the Tour de France runner-up, would be declared the winner if Landis loses the Tour de France title.

Associated Press writer Jean-Luc Courthial in Paris contributed to this report.

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news;_ylt=AqSg06jhiN4ljZE80aYvkft.grcF?slug=ap-landis-doping&prov=ap&type=lgns

[Mal Brossard]

I heard from someone that not only was his testosterone more than twice the legal limit, but it was nearly 3 times-- 11:1.

If the B sample comes back clean, someone has a lot of explaining to do.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

I hope it's clean.

[Slashead]

I hope it's clean.

It isn't clean. Floyd's backup urine sample confirmed high levels of testosterone.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060805/ap_on_sp_ot/cyc_landis_doping

[Drew]

Disappointing. But I guess it's not all that surprising in todays world of cheaters and greed.

[Mal Brossard]

Typical.  Justin Gatlin, Floyd Landis, and anyone coached by Trevor Graham all getting nailed in a week's time.

Way to represent your country, idiots.