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Author Topic: Joel Osteen was one of Barbara Walter's 10 most fascinating people of 2006  (Read 8087 times)
Annie
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« on: December 13, 2006, 11:12:10 AM »

I just thought it was cool. I really like him because he speaks the truth. And he is cute! And smiley!And he is the same age as AXL!
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« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2006, 11:30:27 AM »

who's .dat ?
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« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2006, 12:20:55 PM »

who's .dat ?

He's one of the few semi-decent televangelists out there.  The calm branch of the Religious Right, if you will.
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« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2006, 11:24:54 PM »

Hey Annie, I respectfully disagree with you.  I do believe he's a major tool.  Sorry.   
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« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2006, 11:48:02 PM »

I'm a disillusioned youth who hates all sorts of organized religion.  ESPECIALLY the bastards on TV!

Annie...the cute one's are the most dangerous one's!  Don't fall for his baloney stories. 
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« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2006, 12:09:50 AM »

Thank you Garry, you just took the words out of my mouth!  I just spent the last half hour trying to find this snake-oil salesman's stance on evolution.  Couldn't find it anywhere.  He's slick enough to dodge this one eh?  If he denies evolution, he's a moron who can't be taken seriously by anyone with an iq over 90...and if he accepts evolution, he will have an audience of 300 instead of 30,000.  Best way out?  You got it, duck and dive, avoid the big questions and preach niceties. 

Annie, be a good person.  That means imagining yourself in the shoes of others, and treating them the way you'd want to be treated.  Live this life enjoying every damn second you can because there's 0 proof of anything after it's done.  That doesn't mean living the "Reckless Life" 24/7, it means take the time to appreciate the little things in life.  Make your true joys in life those things that are completely free.  Strive to learn something new every day.  Discover the wonderful world of science where the answers to life's big questions aren't answered, "Because God made it so,"  A life of blissful ignorance does you and those around you a disservice.

 beer  peace  Cool

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« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2006, 12:17:09 AM »

You know what pisses me off Axl4Prez?  That all these thiefs sell out arenas and stadiums, yet Axl is playing to half-full arenas. WHYYYYYYYYYYYYY?HuhHuhHuhHuhHuh  hihi

If you have DIRECTV...go to channel 369 and up, to see what these people are made of.  You see these "rallies" with people gyrating and undulating on the floor, it's pathetic!

God would not want that.  I know, who am I to say what God would want?  But I'm just saying.  Smiley
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« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2006, 12:27:00 AM »

You know what pisses me off Axl4Prez?? That all these thiefs sell out arenas and stadiums, yet Axl is playing to half-full arenas. WHYYYYYYYYYYYYY?HuhHuhHuhHuhHuh? hihi

If you have DIRECTV...go to channel 369 and up, to see what these people are made of.? You see these "rallies" with people gyrating and undulating on the floor, it's pathetic!

God would not want that.? I know, who am I to say what God would want?? But I'm just saying.? Smiley

Ha, actually 3/4ths full, don't believe the hype.  The haters love to say half-full, and they're ticking me off tonight.   hihi

Yeah, these evangelists disgust me.  It wouldn't be so bad if it was a message that didn't contradict common sense.  No holy book is any better than any other holy book.  Case closed.  Take your pick, be what you wanna be, just don't compromise your common sense and check your brain at the church/temple/synagogue entrance.  There should be a little sign at the doors that says, "Ripping off the elderly and feeble-minded since Year 1."   Grin

Can't people just be good without the carrot of heaven dangling from the stick?  For fuck's sake!   hihi
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« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2006, 12:43:22 AM »

Amen to that brother.

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SLCPUNK
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« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2006, 02:55:18 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok4Hv0LQiIA
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Hysteron
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« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2006, 02:58:43 AM »


Bahhhhhhh! Crazy Yanks.
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« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2006, 07:44:40 AM »

I definitely don't consider myself a Christian anymore (raised in a southern baptist church AND went to catholic school for 12 years) because to me Christianity in America represents conservative, christian right philosophy and all that narrowmindedness and bigotry that SOME Christians exhibit (i.e. your Jerry Falwell types), but Joel Osteen is not a hardcore as that.  I'm sure if you pinned him down on it he probablly would be against evolution and gay marriage, but his sermons really do have good, useful messages in them.  It's not so much about repent now sinners... he's more into how people can be prosperous and happy now.  I read his book Living Your Best Life, and seriously, take the religious stuff out of it, and you've got a nice self-help book with a lot of useful info.
If someone doesn't like him that's fine, but he definitely should not be lumped in with the others in the evangelical right.  I believe he's made a point to NOT include himself in that group.
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Annie
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« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2006, 12:15:50 PM »

I am no born again Christian. I talk to dead people, LOVE GNR, believe in reincarnation, and study metaphysical things. It's just for a televangelist, he seems sincere. I just find his show inspirational when you edit out the born again BS. I have studied with a great spiritual teacher named Doreen Virtue who teaches about angels, and one of Joel's sermons about angels was totally describing Archangel Michael. He keeps politics out of his sermon. I don't attend church, but I do like to tune into to him when I have time. And yes the cute ones can be dangerous, but like Gwen Stefani, I have a fatal attraction to cuteness!
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« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2006, 01:57:34 PM »

I talk to dead people

I....see

Hows that going for ya, is Ghandi really the great dancer the ther ghouls say he is?

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« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2006, 02:28:26 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD7jZIQWXuE
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« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2006, 07:23:11 PM »



SLCPunk, you fucking rock!  That clip was hilarious!  It is definite proof there are some stupid-ass mf'ers out there.  That my friends is where da munny's at!   Wink
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« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2006, 07:40:57 PM »

I have studied with a great spiritual teacher named Doreen Virtue who teaches about angels, and one of Joel's sermons about angels was totally describing Archangel Michael.


Annie, you sound like a chick with a good head on her shoulders.  If you ever meet up with Ms. Virtue again, can you please ask a few questions for me?  Earth is about 4.3 to 4.5 billion years old.
Now, 4,500,000,000 years ago when the Earth was a newborn baby, and no life existed...what were angels up to?  Were they influencing the slow development of our single-celled ancestors 4 billion years ago?  We humans have been here on Earth for a very, very small fraction of that time.  The oldest humanlike organism found is dated at 4.4 million years old.  Were the angels just hanging out in heaven playing the harp waiting for us to develop?  Did the bacteria, fungi, trilobytes, and dinosaurs have guardian angels?  What about the dinosaurs' souls??   Did the angels  hover around other planetary systems that already fielded complex life??  I'm just curious. 

The universe is about 13 billion years old.  Did the angels exist prior to the origin of our universe?  As you can tell, I could best be labeled a cynic, but I really do think about these things all the time.  I am constantly amazed how folks take their collective imaginations, bundle them together as chapters in a story, and accept them as fact.  Fascinating stuff.  Confounding, yet still fascinating!

 Smiley   peace 
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« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2006, 07:51:23 PM »


mikesc, that was totally kick-ass, thank you.   beer  The song itself musically is disappointing considering the fact Phil Collins had/has some pretty damn good songs.  I liked the lyrics though.  The concept was very ahead of its time.   peace
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« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2006, 08:21:21 PM »

I have studied with a great spiritual teacher named Doreen Virtue who teaches about angels, and one of Joel's sermons about angels was totally describing Archangel Michael.


Annie, you sound like a chick with a good head on her shoulders.  If you ever meet up with Ms. Virtue again, can you please ask a few questions for me?  Earth is about 4.3 to 4.5 billion years old.
Now, 4,500,000,000 years ago when the Earth was a newborn baby, and no life existed...what were angels up to?  Were they influencing the slow development of our single-celled ancestors 4 billion years ago?  We humans have been here on Earth for a very, very small fraction of that time.  The oldest humanlike organism found is dated at 4.4 million years old.  Were the angels just hanging out in heaven playing the harp waiting for us to develop?  Did the bacteria, fungi, trilobytes, and dinosaurs have guardian angels?  What about the dinosaurs' souls??   Did the angels  hover around other planetary systems that already fielded complex life??  I'm just curious. 

The universe is about 13 billion years old.  Did the angels exist prior to the origin of our universe?  As you can tell, I could best be labeled a cynic, but I really do think about these things all the time.  I am constantly amazed how folks take their collective imaginations, bundle them together as chapters in a story, and accept them as fact.  Fascinating stuff.  Confounding, yet still fascinating!

 Smiley   peace 
BTW, were you there 13 billion years ago? I find that hard to believe. You just said life didn't exist back then...
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« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2006, 09:08:26 PM »

I didn't live 50 years ago, yet I know life existed.

I didn't live 10,000 years ago, yet I know humans lived in small groups as hunter-gatherers.

I didn't live 65 million years ago, yet I know there was a massive world-wide extinction and the dinosaurs bit the dust...(btw, there were no humans around at the time, not even close.  our mammalian ancestors were very small at the time and ran around on 4 legs)

I didn't live 4.5 billion years ago, but I know that the oldest known radiometrically dated rocks came from that time.  Remarkably, meteorites that were also formed around the time our solar system formed are the same age as our oldest rocks. 

Here's a refresher course:  http://members.iinet.com.au/~drage/index.php?p=p3

For those fed creationist nonsense all their lives, this must be mindblowing stuff.  I challenge those unfamiliar with science to expand your horizons and enter the scary world absent of blissful ignorance.  Science will forever seek the truth.  Organized religions will forever try to obscure your view of the world.   Wink
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« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2006, 05:14:16 PM »

Axl said it best? on that Dead Horse song, NOBODY KNOWS QUITE WHY WE"RE HERE. I don't have all the answers but i believe in guardian angels! They have intervened too many times on my behalf for me to not believe in them. I had something really bad happen to me once and a voice whispered to me that saved me from being strangled to death. I also lost complete control of my car coming home from a beloved patient's funeral and I landed on a meadow without injuring myself or anyone else, with minimal damage to the car.
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« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2006, 05:35:12 PM »

Axl said it best  on that Dead Horse song, NOBODY KNOWS QUITE WHY WE"RE HERE. I don't have all the answers but i believe in guardian angels! They have intervened too many times on my behalf for me to not believe in them. I had something really bad happen to me once and a voice whispered to me that saved me from being strangled to death. I also lost complete control of my car coming home from a beloved patient's funeral and I landed on a meadow without injuring myself or anyone else, with minimal damage to the car.

How do they choose when and who to intervene for?
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« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2006, 07:03:51 PM »

Axl said it best? on that Dead Horse song, NOBODY KNOWS QUITE WHY WE"RE HERE. I don't have all the answers but i believe in guardian angels! They have intervened too many times on my behalf for me to not believe in them. I had something really bad happen to me once and a voice whispered to me that saved me from being strangled to death. I also lost complete control of my car coming home from a beloved patient's funeral and I landed on a meadow without injuring myself or anyone else, with minimal damage to the car.

How do they choose when and who to intervene for?
Check out www.angeltherapy.com
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« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2006, 07:10:19 PM »

Axl said it best? on that Dead Horse song, NOBODY KNOWS QUITE WHY WE"RE HERE. I don't have all the answers but i believe in guardian angels! They have intervened too many times on my behalf for me to not believe in them. I had something really bad happen to me once and a voice whispered to me that saved me from being strangled to death. I also lost complete control of my car coming home from a beloved patient's funeral and I landed on a meadow without injuring myself or anyone else, with minimal damage to the car.


Annie, that's cool as hell. ?I really think so. ?I think all faiths are beautiful things when they are of a personal nature and provide comfort without hate, intolerance, polarization, etc. ?

However, in too many instances, spiritual beliefs are held that limit scientific inquiry and render the "believers" completely ignorant. ?

Your belief in angels has obviously served you well from the experiences you described. ?That's cool. ?The flip-side of that coin are all of the negatives associated with fatalistic belief patterns. ?If one is to believe that good things will come their way if they just wish or pray...will end up very disappointed. ?It is our actions...every single action we take, every second of the day, that determines what will happen in our way-too-short lifetimes. ?Now, I'm not anti-prayer, because prayer/affirmations/wishing do help people reach goals. ?Some well-designed scientific studies have shown this. ?Reason? ?Because the person is very focused on their goal. ?Repeating it over and over keeps the person thinking on a sub-conscious level about how they can attain their goals. ?That's great stuff. ?If folks think others are praying for them as well, they will tend to do better too. ?The only folks who don't get any effect from prayer are those who are being prayed for, but don't know it. ?

 ?Now back to you Annie...almost strangled to death??? ?Holy crap! ?I sure hope you are hanging out with nicer (more rational) people! ? peace ?
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« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2006, 07:19:09 PM »

Yes I am. It was a very serious mistake to listen to a shrink that got me into that situation. I hear what you are saying.But at the Las vegas concert I was feeling a little sad and lonely the first night. A few minutes later Axl walked by and I met a nice guy who invited me to go meet his friends who tipped the bouncer to give us VIP access. That was totally unexpected. At Allstate Arena this really annoying guy was bothering me and when GNR came on the guys in front of me left and I was able to move up a row and get closer to Axl. Again totally unexpected! Disaapointments happen too like the cancellation of the Milwaukee concert where I lost $500 but the money came back to me in unexpected ways. I just take it one day at a time!
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« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2006, 07:30:17 PM »

Yes I am. It was a very serious mistake to listen to a shrink that got me into that situation. I hear what you are saying.But at the Las vegas concert I was feeling a little sad and lonely the first night. A few minutes later Axl walked by and I met a nice guy who invited me to go meet his friends who tipped the bouncer to give us VIP access. That was totally unexpected. At Allstate Arena this really annoying guy was bothering me and when GNR came on the guys in front of me left and I was able to move up a row and get closer to Axl. Again totally unexpected! Disaapointments happen too like the cancellation of the Milwaukee concert where I lost $500 but the money came back to me in unexpected ways. I just take it one day at a time!


Good to hear you are hanging out with a safer crowd.  Hopefully we'll see ya down the road at a show on the east coast.   peace
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« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2006, 01:53:18 PM »


lol my friend love that song he will laugh so hard when i show it to him thanks  rofl
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« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2006, 10:56:41 PM »

He is pretty interesting to listen to, if you have any kind of spiritual being
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« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2006, 12:25:23 PM »

Geez, I hate it when people critized my belief, not me but, Christianity.
I didn't live 50 years ago, yet I know life existed.

I didn't live 10,000 years ago, yet I know humans lived in small groups as hunter-gatherers.

I didn't live 65 million years ago, yet I know there was a massive world-wide extinction and the dinosaurs bit the dust...(btw, there were no humans around at the time, not even close.  our mammalian ancestors were very small at the time and ran around on 4 legs)

I didn't live 4.5 billion years ago, but I know that the oldest known radiometrically dated rocks came from that time.  Remarkably, meteorites that were also formed around the time our solar system formed are the same age as our oldest rocks. 

Here's a refresher course:  http://members.iinet.com.au/~drage/index.php?p=p3

For those fed creationist nonsense all their lives, this must be mindblowing stuff.  I challenge those unfamiliar with science to expand your horizons and enter the scary world absent of blissful ignorance.  Science will forever seek the truth.  Organized religions will forever try to obscure your view of the world.   Wink
I was going to lead you into this...

You don't know that the world didn't exist back then, neither do I. Yet, you use "carbon dating." Funny that you think carbon dating proves that God doesn't exist. Well, it does! The world was created by God because of the furthur evidence of carbon dating. However, carbon dating is  misleading. It could be 1,000 years ago when 9/11 occurs.

What really offends me about what you say about religions. You, "sir", are ignorant just like the rest of us. I believe in what I believe, okay! And what's funny is that you said Merry Christmas in one of your posts... therefore I guess you are a non-creationist christian?

BTW, Axl4Prez2004, did you know that your favorite role model is a Christian?
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« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2006, 03:10:14 PM »

Geez, I hate it when people critized my belief, not me but, Christianity.
I didn't live 50 years ago, yet I know life existed.

I didn't live 10,000 years ago, yet I know humans lived in small groups as hunter-gatherers.

I didn't live 65 million years ago, yet I know there was a massive world-wide extinction and the dinosaurs bit the dust...(btw, there were no humans around at the time, not even close.? our mammalian ancestors were very small at the time and ran around on 4 legs)

I didn't live 4.5 billion years ago, but I know that the oldest known radiometrically dated rocks came from that time.? Remarkably, meteorites that were also formed around the time our solar system formed are the same age as our oldest rocks.?

Here's a refresher course:? http://members.iinet.com.au/~drage/index.php?p=p3

For those fed creationist nonsense all their lives, this must be mindblowing stuff.? I challenge those unfamiliar with science to expand your horizons and enter the scary world absent of blissful ignorance.? Science will forever seek the truth.? Organized religions will forever try to obscure your view of the world.? ?Wink
I was going to lead you into this...

You don't know that the world didn't exist back then, neither do I. Yet, you use "carbon dating." Funny that you think carbon dating proves that God doesn't exist. Well, it does! The world was created by God because of the furthur evidence of carbon dating. However, carbon dating is? misleading. It could be 1,000 years ago when 9/11 occurs.

What really offends me about what you say about religions. You, "sir", are ignorant just like the rest of us. I believe in what I believe, okay! And what's funny is that you said Merry Christmas in one of your posts... therefore I guess you are a non-creationist christian?

BTW, Axl4Prez2004, did you know that your favorite role model is a Christian?


  OMG, where to begin.  Thank you for taking the time to write and I'm sorry you were offended.  I have no problem with religious belief systems.  It's when religion sticks its nose in the wrong place, that I have concerns.  I'll work in reverse here.  I take it in your PS you're saying Axl Rose is my favorite role model?   rofl  Oh man, not in my wildest dreams would I dare to live the life of Axl Rose.  While I respect Axl and wish him nothing but happiness, I question whether or not he really leads a happy life.  He is my favorite rock star, a brilliant artist, my favorite singer, my favorite lead man of my favorite band.  Role model?  Oh my god no.   rofl 

Many of my friends and family are what you call "Christian."  Most are intelligent enough to understand science doesn't just talk out of its ass.  Life on this planet evolved.  The proof exists in many different scientific disciplines.  This does not mean God or Gods don't exist.  My wife for instance who is quite intelligent (as well as beautiful) believes in God because something had to set it all in motion.  That's cool by me.     

Please entertain me by explaining how carbon dating could conclude 9/11 occurred 1000 years ago!  This is laughable ignorance.  This statement you made, "Funny that you think carbon dating proves that God doesn't exist," is a lie!  I want GNR management to ban your post!  Just kidding.  hihi  Seriously, I said no such thing!  No human being will ever be able to disprove the existence of God or Gods.  It's ridiculous to even argue about that.

If carbon dating is so horribly inaccurate, why is it that 97% of the time it falls within expected ranges???  Why is it that every dinosaur remnant ever dated dates older than 60 million years old, and no human being or proto-humans (oops, that's right, you probably think those were either deformed humans or retarded apes) ever date that old?  I'd think if the science was so flawed, our best and brightest who bring us inter-planetary travel, bio-technology, gene therapy, full mappings of multiple species' DNA makeups, and other wonderful accomplishments too numerous to mention, wouldn't be comprised of a community that overwhelmingly endorses evolution and discards "creationist science" as anything but science.   

The theory of evolution is about as rock-solid a theory as you will find, and the more you learn about it, the better off you'll be.  People love to put it down because it's a theory and not fact.  There's also a "germ theory of disease."  I'm betting it's pretty damn on the ball.  Wink

Have a Merry Fucking Christmas!  I know I will.  Whether you celebrate the birth of Jesus as "the reason behind the season," or if you're like me, you just celebrate the holiday as a special time to wish peace and love to all in the world who unfortunately don't have enough peace and love, Merry Christmas. 

PS: if you really want to celebrate the birth of Jesus though, wouldn't you rather do it when he was really born?  I believe he was born closer to Spring time.  The Romans were pretty damn smart to combine the Pagan worship of the Winter solstice with the birth of Jesus.  Everybody was happy!  Merry Christmas and have a Happy New Year!!!

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« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2006, 05:48:56 PM »

Reply to all of that above. Nice post by the way. However I will disagree with you on some points.


Fine, whatever, if you want Axl to be president, haha, well it's ironic to me.

How would you know what is a lie? How would you know what is truth? You have to give me proof, before I can realize it isn't a lie! Like this, I can see the moon at night just like everyone else, so it's must be true.

Of course, I'm not saying that God is true and I want you to change your view, but however it is my faith that I believe in God. Just as your faith in science.

You've probably read Genesis in the OT. It said in the beginning..., and God created the Earth in 7 days. What it meant was that each of those 7 days were not like in our calendar. It was over a long period of time. So yeah, I do believe that the Earth was created a very long time ago.

Oh, where does your facts lie on these 97% accuracy on carbon dating?

And about the evolution theory. Just want to let you know that Darwin even quits on the Evolution theory. I believe that we did evolve only a little, but we did not come from apes. I don't know if that is true, neither do you. But it would have been true if there were a REAL bone of these half-man half-ape. We don't see any REAL one, do you?

I hope you'll have a Merry Christmas as well. The only reason I'm celebrating is the birth of Jesus coming into the world. Uh, of course I know that Jesus wasn't born on Dec. 25th. It was long known as the Pagan holiday. I can agree with you on that.

P.S: There are no atheists in foxholes. Hope you'll have a great life!
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« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2006, 06:54:14 PM »

Reply to all of that above. Nice post by the way. However I will disagree with you on some points.


Fine, whatever, if you want Axl to be president, haha, well it's ironic to me.

How would you know what is a lie? How would you know what is truth? You have to give me proof, before I can realize it isn't a lie! Like this, I can see the moon at night just like everyone else, so it's must be true.

Of course, I'm not saying that God is true and I want you to change your view, but however it is my faith that I believe in God. Just as your faith in science.

You've probably read Genesis in the OT. It said in the beginning..., and God created the Earth in 7 days. What it meant was that each of those 7 days were not like in our calendar. It was over a long period of time. So yeah, I do believe that the Earth was created a very long time ago.

I hope you'll have a Merry Christmas as well. The only reason I'm celebrating is the birth of Jesus coming into the world. Uh, of course I know that Jesus wasn't born on Dec. 25th. It was long known as the Pagan holiday. I can agree with you on that.

P.S: There are no atheists in foxholes. Hope you'll have a great life!


difleha,

why must you create a separation that does not exist?  people can believe in both!!!  For the rational heads out there, please read the following:


"First and foremost, there are two separate Creation accounts in Genesis. The first one looks like this:

Genesis 1

 Let's go over it piece by piece:

Day One: God supposedly creates the "heaven and the Earth", and there are already "waters" even though the Earth is without form and there is still no Sun. Then, he creates light. But still no Sun. He even separates the light and darkness into night and day ... and still no Sun!

Day Two: God creates a "firmament" in the midst of the waters in order to separate the waters below from the waters above, and calls it Heaven (yes, according to Genesis astrophysics, there was a giant hard shell outside the atmosphere, keeping out the "waters above"; you can't make this stuff up, folks). Still no Sun.

Day Three: God gathers the waters into one place, to reveal the land. Yes, your eyes are not playing tricks on you: according to Genesis the seas are created not by gravity and irregularities in the Earth's surface, but by God literally pushing the water around to move it all into one place. Then, he made plants and herbs and grass. Still no Sun.

Day Four: God creates "lights" in the "firmament" of the sky. Yes, according to Genesis, those aren't stars you see; they're actually little pinprick lights in the hard shell which forms Heaven and keeps out the waters above. Then, he creates the "greater light" (read: the Sun) and the "lesser light" (read: the Moon) to govern the day and night, apparently ignorant of the fact that the Moon generates no light at all, and merely reflects the light of the Sun. So finally, long after the appearance of light, separations of day and night, and even plant life, he has finally gotten around to creating the Sun, and those little roof-mounted nightlights we call stars. Many so-called "creation scientists" expect us to take Genesis seriously as a scientific resource; I can't imagine why.

Day Five: God creates the birds and sea animals (including whales) before creating a single land animal, in total defiance of the fossil record. Mind you, this is actually the least absurd Genesis Day so far.

Day Six: God makes all of the land animals, and then he makes Man (in his own image, male and female simultaneously; this means that God literally looks like one of us), and gives him dominion over the Earth.

As I touched on earlier, many creationists and Biblical apologists like to argue that the Bible's creation story is fairly accurate as long as you don't take the word "days" literally. Leaving aside the fact that Genesis very explicitly defines "days" as the cycles of light and darkness which we all know so well, this particular apologist argument is still a farce, and one could still go blue in the face listing mistakes. How can anyone argue that a creation story should be taken seriously when it describes the sky as a hard shell with water above it, the stars as lights affixed in that shell, days and nights being separated three days before the Sun is created, oceans forming not by gravity but by God pushing the water around, plants and grass growing with no Sun to create the necessary sunlight, the Moon generating light, whales appearing before trilobytes, and himself looking just like a man?

If God looks like a man, does God have a penis? What does he use it for? And is it not overwhelmingly clear that primitive Man simply did not understand atmospheric precipitation and hence concluded that there must be a vast body of water in the sky from which rain fell, hence this silly "firmament" to separate the "waters below" from the "waters above"? How much evidence will it take to convince Bible apologists that the Bible has no more scientific accuracy than Dr. Seuss?

"OK, OK, you've made your point" you might say. Well, believe it or not, it gets better. You see, Genesis Chapter 2 is next, and guess what: it's totally inconsistent with Genesis Chapter 1!

continued in next post...
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« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2006, 06:54:36 PM »

Genesis 2

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
OK, let's have a look, shall we? We start with the ending of the story told in the first chapter, where God rests on the seventh day. All of a sudden, the story abruptly restarts, with no explanation. And does this story match the first one? Give yourself a cookie if you can correctly guess the answer:

Day One: God makes the "Earth and the heavens". Mist comes up from the ground and waters it (contradiction #1: in the first story, there was nothing but "waters" at first, with no exposed land until Day Three). God makes Adam, then makes the Garden of Eden for him (contradiction #2: in the first story, the plants came three days before Man). Then, he makes "helpers" for Adam, ie- all of the birds and animals (contradiction #3: in the first story, the animals were created before Man), which Adam names one by one (yes, Adam supposedly saw every single variety of animal and gave them all names). Then he stole a rib from Adam while he was sleeping and made it into a woman (contradiction #4: in the first story, male and female were created simultaneously). And the final contradiction: yes, this all takes place in one day, whereas the first story took six.

Conclusion
It is often said that if you just interpret the Bible in a non-literal fashion, it is fairly accurate to the scientific account of geology, astrophysics, cosmology, and evolution. However, like many creationist claims, this claim is oft repeated by people who have never bothered testing it to see if it is actually true. And this leads to the inevitable question: just how non-literal is a "scientifically valid" interpretation of Genesis supposed to be? We must disregard its descriptions of the structure of the Earth, we must disregard the order in which things happen, we must disregard the fact that it can't even keep its story straight between Chapter 1 and Chapter 2, we must disregard its laughable interpretations of rainfall, the Moon, and the stars, and we must believe that Adam was created a male, with a penis, even though the idea of a woman hadn't occurred to God yet. Naturally, this leads to the question of what Adam was initially supposed to do with that penis. Perhaps heavy masturbation was part of God's plan after all.

In short, the only way to interpret Genesis without dogmatically defying everything we have rationally determined about the workings of the universe is to treat it as pure allegorical myth, not historical storytelling. And of course, if one interprets it as allegorical myth rather than historical storytelling, then one must accept that it does not actually contradict evolution theory, because it was never intended to tell a factually accurate story at all. Indeed, many theologians and Christians have come to precisely that conclusion, looking at the language and the message of Genesis and concluding that it was intended to deliver a message (in the manner of Aesop's Fables) rather than presenting a historically accurate account of primordial events."

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« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2006, 06:58:20 PM »

I think those posts pretty much say it all. 

Think about it.  peace
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