I hate it when jazz is compared to classical...

[Walk]

http://bbs.anus.com/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001881

This thread also has an article that reveals a lot about most rock music. I don't know if the genre itself is inherantly vapid, but most rock is absolute crap, and the crap is celebrated. It's frightening that songs like Imagine are considered classic, but the ideology behind the music is terrible and the music itself is aesthetically attractive, but artistically void. There are many better songs. Hell, Lennon and the Beatles even wrote better songs! Yet the asinine, mediocre, Communist song Imagine gets the attention of tasteless critics. In the meantime, no one outside of the metal underground talks about Bathory, Darkthrone, or Hellhammer. Electronic music outside of mindless techno is also ignored. No one talks about classical music after the early 1900s, either...

I smell a global conspiracy here. 

[Genesis]

Jazz? Snore.... 

[ClintroN]

Jazz? Snore.... 

jazz goes alright

[Axls Locomotive]

the forum article is just exaggerated bullshit...and the person who posted that article knows little of 50's music and the origins of rock and roll...

i like some modern jazz, jane monheit and other female vocalists especially...jazz that just aimlessly goes nowhere is unlistenable to me

[Walk]

The article is wrong for painting all of rock music as worthless, but it's generally correct about the genre: most of it is bad. The same can be said of 99% of everything else, though.  It's the top 1% that makes the great stuff, but that elite isn't always recognized; if anything, they're ignored while the less talented bands are celebrated. The whole atmosphere seems to encourage mediocre people to put out music because they have an agreeable philosophy, even if their musical skills are lacking. Take Imagine as an example of a bad song with a popular message thats easily accepted.

An old punk saying is, "here's a chord, here's another one, and here's a third, now go make a band." Not all minimalistic music is bad, and lots of punk is good, but this saying shows the simplistic nature of generic punk rock. To a lot of people, punk's mesage is more important than the music behind it, and that's what kills scenes, when anyone can make bad music with a popular mesage and succed temporarily. Then everyone burns out and runs to a new fad. It happened in LA, and not even GnR could stop it. It happens to all scenes.

Jazz's problem is the same problem that faces progressive rock/metal. At times, it's like a parody of complex classical song structures. Technique and skill is often emphasized more than songwriting ability. Yngwie's latest few albums are examples of this, even if his 80's stuff was brilliant. Jazz doesn't have to be this way, but the Dionysian worldview has the genre in a chokehold. The worst problem is, a lot of jazz musicians think they really are elite and talented! At least punkers realize they're not virtuosos! 

Simply put, these musical worldviews (yes, even nihilism!) can ruin great music. Great music usually has a theme behind it, but the whole scene suffers when this becomes more important that the music itself. Scenes burn out in cycles and there are new fads, and its record companies that encourage this. They want a worldview behind music because politics change, worldviews change with the time, and there is always going to be new music to $ell when this happens. Hence the rise and fall of jazz/glam/grunge/black metal/whatevercore. If people could understand music for music's sake, there would be no need for all this.

The sad thing is, people really listen when Bono exploits Africa to get attention and sell records. No one wants to think about how much of that charity money is actually going to those sellouts.

[Gunner80]

Music is music - if it's good I listen to it- if it's bad I don't. The same thing can be said for just about the whole music loving world. What does shit (topics) like this prove to anyone anyway? I'll tell what, NOTHING!

[Walk]

I dunno, man. Look at how Izzy dismissed Grom as Nazi music without hearing any of it. The sad thing is, much of the music loving world does put too much importance in song meanings and lyrics. Yes, a lot of Grom fans are stupid Nazis, but a lot of their fans, like me, enjoy the music. But this good music will never, ever be mainstream.

[Axls Locomotive]

The article is wrong for painting all of rock music as worthless, but it's generally correct about the genre: most of it is bad. The same can be said of 99% of everything else, though.  It's the top 1% that makes the great stuff, but that elite isn't always recognized; if anything, they're ignored while the less talented bands are celebrated. The whole atmosphere seems to encourage mediocre people to put out music because they have an agreeable philosophy, even if their musical skills are lacking. Take Imagine as an example of a bad song with a popular message thats easily accepted.

An old punk saying is, "here's a chord, here's another one, and here's a third, now go make a band." Not all minimalistic music is bad, and lots of punk is good, but this saying shows the simplistic nature of generic punk rock. To a lot of people, punk's mesage is more important than the music behind it, and that's what kills scenes, when anyone can make bad music with a popular mesage and succed temporarily. Then everyone burns out and runs to a new fad. It happened in LA, and not even GnR could stop it. It happens to all scenes.

Jazz's problem is the same problem that faces progressive rock/metal. At times, it's like a parody of complex classical song structures. Technique and skill is often emphasized more than songwriting ability. Yngwie's latest few albums are examples of this, even if his 80's stuff was brilliant. Jazz doesn't have to be this way, but the Dionysian worldview has the genre in a chokehold. The worst problem is, a lot of jazz musicians think they really are elite and talented! At least punkers realize they're not virtuosos! 

Simply put, these musical worldviews (yes, even nihilism!) can ruin great music. Great music usually has a theme behind it, but the whole scene suffers when this becomes more important that the music itself. Scenes burn out in cycles and there are new fads, and its record companies that encourage this. They want a worldview behind music because politics change, worldviews change with the time, and there is always going to be new music to $ell when this happens. Hence the rise and fall of jazz/glam/grunge/black metal/whatevercore. If people could understand music for music's sake, there would be no need for all this.

The sad thing is, people really listen when Bono exploits Africa to get attention and sell records. No one wants to think about how much of that charity money is actually going to those sellouts.

you think too much...

and i think youre wrong about bono...