Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I find life and the whole how we got here theories fascinating because I don't think we will ever know exactly what this was all about. to think that 65 million years ago dinosaurs walked the face of the earth still blows my mind and the sheer size of them is just amazing. Earth has been through numerous ice ages and the first hint of human life dates back only 10,000 years. I find it hard to believe I am an ancient descendant of monkey life though
When I was younger my parents introduced me into religion, they were raised baptist and catholic respectively but I could never buy into it or put all my devotion into living that kind of lifestyle.. I can't really rap my head around religion of any kind and I'm not knocking anyones beliefs actualy I'm happy you atleast have something you believe in but it just doesn't do it for me. I'm 26 and I'm searching for the meaning of life.. :hihi: just kinda curious if anyone has seen it or can give me a clue on how to go about finding it :hihi:

 :beer:

i'm with you. I'm not a damn dirty ape, however, i am christian. :)

you don't have to live a certain life style to believe in God. Hell i'm a bad example of some one good. I swear and curse and i can be a down right asshole somtimes. But if you believe then you are forgivin. Thats why Jesus died on the cross cause he knows i'm not perfect and that you're not perfect so he just thought he'd die for us.

If that makes sence to you all good if not well then ask a paster or a father. Because it goes into alot more detail.

:peace:

I dont think humans are suposed to know...

I think we're just a stage in the evolution, and that whatever we evolve into in a few million years might understand.
we're just amoebas in the history of universe.

IKNKN, it's actually much further back than 10,000 years for humans, just sayin'.

Evolution is real on the micro and macro levels.  Don't let anyone tell you that it is incompatible with belief in God or Gods for that matter.  There are many ignorant and sometimes downright stupid people who will try and tell you otherwise.

Beware of those who tell you they have all the answers...without evidence.  That is the difference between science and religion.  One is always open to revision based on evidence.  That would be the former.  The latter is unchangeable, extremely subjective on many different levels, and inherently divisive.  There have been tens of thousands of different faiths conjured up throughout mankind's history...each believing itself to be the one true faith.  There is one scientific method.  One.   ;)

 :peace:
 

There is no grand scheme meaning to life.  its what you make of it.  Theres a great line from fight club about how were all from the same compost heap or something like that.

I think life should be lived that when you're 90 years old you can look back on what you've done/accomplished and be happy.  thats a good life.

there certainly is no "way" to live your life.  do as you please yourself.  if you're searching for a meaning or a reason for life chances are you just haven't found yourself yet.  don't look to books (or a GNR message board, hehe) for the answers to life, look to yourself.

very inspiring  : ok:

couldnt have said it better myself

It's all about the flying spaghetti monster man.......

The last part of what I said was half jokingly...I'm not looking for the meaning of life here at htgth.. morre I guess asking the differences between science and religion..as i have gone 26 years just living my life and not really believing in any religion and question the scientific method of evolution.. not all of evolution just human beings.. to me there is no real answer and all of the theories seem flawed and the flaws are blantantly obvious

One must go out there and experience life.....to really discover what makes a human being truly a human being......... I think if you cut us, we all bleed.........

And if religion doesn't do it for you......take inspiration from social reformers such as Martin Luther King, Ghandi, Mother Teresa, Nelson Mandela.......Kenndey for some..........John Lennon for others........

(Got that off a cereal box)!

humans did not evolve from monkeys. humans and monkeys evolved from the same creature.

Yes, somedays I rather spend time with the animals....

I wish my science teacher looked like 2nafish's avatar!  That's classic!  Yes, 2nafish is correct. Thanks 2na.
BTW, IKNKN, if you are left scratching your head at the holes evolution has, that's normal.
The fossil record gets bigger every year, the genomes are revealing themselves everyday, the advanced dating methods that are being honed just further bolster what's been laid down before them.  If you are listening to pseudo-scientists on the religious side of the debate, you better be religious because God help ya, you're in trouble.  Pseudo-science permeates the debate.  If I hear another pseudo-scientist try to explain away the homo habili, australopithecus or neanderthals as "retarded humans" I'll probably scream.  Nah, no I won't, I'll just laugh.

I would suggest you hop on over to the closest university you can find (that isn't funded by televangelist rip-off artists) and I want you to audit a class on evolution or heck, even anthropology, wait, even astronomy, or yeah, geology, genetics, anatomy...the list goes on and on.  The changes that take place over tens of thousands of years (or in the case of the Universe, billions) are very difficult to conceptualize. 

People ask me (since I'm not a church-goer), "Do you believe in miracles?"  I say yes I do.  Everything around us is a miracle.  Do I believe a magical hand of a God is controlling things around me or even me?  Heck no and I think it's irresponsible to live like that. 

Do I have my own beliefs about an after-life?  Yes I do.  I don't believe in heaven or hell.  I'd like to think it involves absolute knowledge.  Beyond that, when it comes to convincing other people they should believe what I believe, I think that's bullshit.  Be a good person, help others and help others to help themselves.  Be kind, be courteous, laugh, have the ability to be self-deprecating, and never lose the desire to learn.  The more you know about everything the more you get out of life.  Be 100% honest with yourself and as honest as you can with others.....oh yeah, and one more thing, blast some Guns N Fuckin' Roses on those speakers and have a great time doing it!   :yes:

Yes, yes, now I must ask, what are the supposed "flaws" in evolution you're referring to "when it comes to humans but not the rest of the animal kingdom" etc. 

     

How come the souls of animals are always pure?

Pick up a couple books by Zechariah Sitchin.  Interesting stuff that could shed some light on things.

I'm with you Captain! ;D

Their descendants are still around today i.e: birds. Not all of the "dinosaurs" were large.


There is evidence to support 4 glaciations; During the Pre-Cambrian(2bybp) , The late Ordovicion(435mybp), the Permian(250mybp), and of course the Pliestocene(1mybp)-really four cycles; the last of which probably ended 10,000years ago.


Depending on what one calls "human life", Man(Homo habilis) evolved 2.5mybp, whereas, Homo sapiens evolved about 1mybp.


You are not, that is obsfucation thrown in by religious assholes to confuse those who are ignorant about evolution.


I will, one has to be delusional to believe in a "magic man" in the sky who grants wishes.

SEE How do we know that christans are delusional (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVuw1wEuaAQ&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Escienceblogs%2Ecom%2Fpharyngula%2F%3Fpage%3D2)

Oh, I almost left out, just as there are therories to explain a heliocentric solar system or gravity, there are theories to explain how evolution works, but evolution is a fact that is undesputable.

Gawd is real, how else would you explain bananas? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z-OLG0KyR4&mode=related&search=)

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLqQttJinjo&mode=related&search=) is one way.:)

BTW, I loved the "Shoot The Dog" video. Funny stuff.

This is the creature, or so the catholic church would have you believe, that comes to get you if you masturbate. or give out condoms in africa.

I thought that was human spawn that popped out the vag. if a woman has pre-marital sex.   :hihi:

or, is it what happens to the physical form of humans that are sent to hell because they weren't Christians?  All those poor, poor souls who lived before Christ and the ones after Christ who were born in areas not frequented by missionaries.  They all look like 2nafish's avatar!   :rofl:

Ahh, the flippant people on here are indeed miserable. Why don't you guys read The Screwtape Letters. If you haven't, funny.

Flippant?  probably; miserable? probably not.


I don't read very much fiction, but when I do, I prefer to read something that wasn't criticized by it's own author.

Ahhh, good ol' difleha.  Hello!  Do you see a lot of miserable people here?  Don't count me in.  I'm as happy as Jessica Alba's panties thank you very much.   :)

First of all, he said it was distasteful to write, because he, Lewis, was acting as Screwtape in his book. It was horrific for him ,as a Christian(Don't argue that with me, he reconverted to Christianity when he was 31), to write that. In 1959, he went back and do the book in a different way. There wasn't anything wrong with The ScrewTape letters.

Why are you guys so stubborn? What's wrong with admitting your guilt to God? You spend as much time trying to disprove God as I believe in God. How come you can get a picture of God and acknowledge him but not believe in him?

i can get a picture of a flying spaghetti monster that plays backgammon with penguins on the third tuesday of every month contaiting the letter M; that doesnt mean i believe in him.

Lol, that was so funny of me to say. Well, I'm not that good at proving because after all, you can't prove or disprove God, but at least I believe in Jesus and God.

^^^Now that's the Difleha I've come to know and love!  You love Jesus, wonderful...now how about you open up a science book so that in 50 years when you get to meet him you don't sound so darn silly.   ;)  While you are doing that, I'll construct some more run-on sentences that probably pretty accurately describe my scrambled thought processes right now.  :)

I shit you not, I've been told by a born-again whack-job that I'm not going to heaven because I don't believe in what they believe in.  I told them that I'm a good person...I've never killed anybody, etc., etc., but it just doesn't matter.  Apparently, you can be a mass-murderer, serial rapist, and child molester, and still make it into heaven if you accept Christ as your lord and savior.  Pardon me if I say, "Bullshit." 

Personally, I find some comfort in exploring my spiritual side.  I like to believe that after I die my soul or whatever you want to call it, my essence, will go on an infinite journey of enlightenment.  I will learn everything, see everything, hear everything, taste everything, smell everything, touch everything, etc.  Yes, it sounds ridiculous, but it's my vision and I don't push it on anybody...unlike evangelical or fundamentalist religions.

I do think highly of my own belief structure.  I have a friend who says that he's be a terrible person if it wasn't for his Christian beliefs.  I asked him why he has such little faith in himself.   :( 

That is a baited question, and I will not bite. Well, on second thought ... maybe I will. Which God?


I don't "acknowledge" any God because there is not any evidence to support one.

Merely reworked pagan myths....

totaaly agree
but for me there are only two theories of our excisting:

-god really made everything (god excist)

-nature made everything  (god don't excist)

Ok, but if we exist, why do we exist? What are we here for?

- if god really made everything, what does that mean? (do we live according to theories about heaven and hell?)
- if nature made evrything, how do we fit in with nature? (law of the jungle)

First, I must profess ignorance in matters philosophical, but why does there has to be a reason?

The joy of philosophy is that the more questions you ask and the more answers you try to come up with, there will always be new questions that keep poppping up.

everything effect must have a cause. its called causality.

No, science studies cause and and effect...........philosophy is a different branch........

i wasnt trying to disprove God, merely point out that your belief in God is actually quite ridiculous. Its as likely as my flying spaghetti monster.

western philosophy has studied causility as far back as aristotle.

Philosophy should allow you to argue beyong the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Religon tries to answer what it is to be human - philosophy also looks at it without having to be judged by proven scientific concepts.

Philosophy has 7? different branches.

Some arguments such as free will vs destiny use the example of cause and effect as a possible aswer to how the world works.

i dont mean to sound arrogant but i've studied philosophy, whats your point?

Good then if you've studied philosphy then you should be open to the idea that not everything can be put down to cause and effect because that is pure science. There is an argument for free will and phenomenons. Scientific language is not always the best langauge to use when talking philosophy. The language of myticsm is also good.

Philosophy is more than a science it is also encompases the study of humanity.

Does that come straight from George W Bush University?  Ya gotta love black and white, right or wrong, good or evil with no in-between outlooks.  Disprove the possibility God or Gods set the Universe in motion 12 to 15 billion years ago.  Anything's possible.  Believe whatever you want, just don't force it on anyone else.  Don't let your personal beliefs in unprovable entities cripple scientific progress (i.e. stem cell research).  If you oppose federally funded stem cell research because you oppose the idea of the federal government spending money in an area where private companies may be more efficient, that's one thing...but this current baboon in the White House has taken his own "right and wrong" approach and has set us behind.

The very same hateful religious zealots who today march in protest against embryonic stem cell research should all be signing legal papers so that in the future when cures for terrible diseases are discovered, they will not be allowed to save themselves using the treatments.  (but you know they will...fucking hypocrites)

fair enough, but for someone who says "First, I must profess ignorance in matters philosophical, but why does there has to be a reason?" - Simply saying every effect must have a cause is more than enough of an answer.

And that should raise more questions, if you want to make it a philosopical discussion.

Cause and Effect:

You strike a match so then it lights. All the science associated with a match and flint are working at exactly the same time.

But then what is the human effect upon that action? Say if the science doesn't always come into play? For the match to be lit the rules of science should be there all time. Sometimes they are not. Have you experience times when the match has lit when you haven't expected it to?

Does it depend upon the way you hold the match.......the angle. Maths is 3D after all - you should have learnt that from The Simpsons.

Say if someone is having a 'full on' time happening in thier life. Imagine a heated scene in a room laden with energy. Someone is trying to light a match to get the 10th cigarette lit. Caught up in the heat of the moment it takes 3 attempts for a match to ignite. Two types of energy would have gone into lighting that match.

Since energy is never lost it is always changed into another form - heat energy or motion energy - does the human energy in the room have any affect upon the lit match.

Also, TIME is an entity unto itself and has a funny way of adding to the physics of any situation.....


***(and then Aristotle and co would discuss it for days upon end............ = philosophy)***



 

First of all, you guys think that your religion is better than the rest of us. You're putting us(Christians mainly) down. That's a bad attitude, you know. Second, the reason why I have run-on sentences is because I have a severe hearing loss, dumbass. I have to work harder in life than you do, see? That means you, Axl4prez. You have to watch out what you're saying. You've threatened my belief and my disability.

The reason why mass-murder, serial rapist, bad people...can still be a Christian is because while they can still be a Christian, it is harder to have strong faith in that. You'll start to doubt because you've done those bad things, and you'll think that you won't go to heaven no matter what Jesus said about repenting.

If you guys keep on doubting and reasoning, it will be harder for you guys to believe in God's existence that way.

my goodness, imagine employing doubt and reason to come to a logical conclusion. wouldnt it just be easier to live in a submissive state accepting whatever clap-trap is fed to us?

I guess some people do need to understand their lives and actions on that sort of level. That is certainly setting youself some very high standards to maintain and live up to. All people need some motivating force.

As long as that god is also a god of forvieness.........because some people (science) can argue about self-esteem issues in these kind of instances.

According to some book, we are all born in the image of god. To rub the point in, Jesus lived on Earth as a human being (one of us) - means that we are all capable of being truly awsome human beings!

And the next question is.............

Well, what was it about jesus that made him so awesome? What makes any human being awesome?

Is it actions, words, actions + words, genes, environment?

What blew my mind was Live Aid in 85. The telephone and studio pledges in between acts were really full on and emtional. Everyone one just realized that they were some real human problems in the world that needed to be solved.

Some music happened - live satellite link between 3 arenas - London. Phillidelphia, Seattle? - the other person to do a live satellite thing like that was Elvis!

And then Geldof did "I Don't Like Mondays!"........

And then some music happened. Funny how there are strong links between maths and music...........

And the even funnier thing about it is that Geldof of all people happens to be the unifying human link in all of it.........

Cos there certainly must be leprechauns running amok in Ireland......(the random element).........

Difleha, how the hell was I supposed to know you have severe hearing loss? 
An even better question is how the heck that causes you to compose run-on sentences!?!?  I was making fun of myself dumb-ass (dumb-ass meant in a nice way).

This following sentence hurt my head:  "The reason why mass-murder, serial rapist, bad people...can still be a Christian is because while they can still be a Christian, it is harder to have strong faith in that. You'll start to doubt because you've done those bad things, and you'll think that you won't go to heaven no matter what Jesus said about repenting.

If there is a heaven, something tells me mass murderers, rapists, child molesters, embezzlers, etc. won't be part of the fun no matter how much they "believe" in any particular religion.

Stop the madness!!!!!  People can be perfectly good people while believing or not believing in any particular religion.  When it comes to evolution, you can be a good person and not understand evolution...you'll just be mis-informed.  :( 

Calling someone a dumb-ass isn't very Christian of you.....

^ Exactly. ;)

That was my quote, I should have left the "philosophical" part out. What I meant was, there can be an explanation; there does not have to be a reason. Reason implies there was a conscious decision made in the formation of the Universe.

How does hearing loss equal run on sentence ?



I see. Once reason is off the table, I can come to understand your version of Gawd?

Ok, how is this for spooky...........

You know how I was going on about Geldof and and Live Aid last night...........well, syncronicity has just reared its ugly head. Woke up and just caught an interview with Geldof on Parkinson!!!!!

He too was talking about Live Aid saying that when he walked out on stage with the Rats he felt such a connectedness - could have been to do with the electrical loop they had running around the world...... ;D

He said he had a moment of calmness (without sounding too hippy) and hasn't been calm ever since!

The leprechauns are most certainly at play!? :nervous:

Re:God

Some people experience stuff in life where they are almost forced to consider the possibility God on a rational level.

Coffee and chocolate do it for me.

Huh ... what ... I can't hear you.

 :o

You are going to hell for that!

My friend, I look forward to beer volcanoes and stripper factories.

hahahaha, well that sounds like heaven to me.

If only there is a bourbon lake at the base of that volcano, I have emailed Prophet Bobby about that.

Now be fair!  ;D