How bad did Izzy leaving Guns effect Axl?

[Wheres Izzy]

I was wondering if anyone else thought it had as grand an effect on Axl I think it did. I think this one probably stung more than anyone else leaving. Izzy, while not a major contributor as far as playing, was a big key to the song writing process and Axl and him wrote alot of great songs together. I have heard versions of their relationship that differ greatly as to how close they were back in Indiana but once in L.A. (a time that had to be a big adjustment period for both of them) they were together for a while. Also almost all of the videos from Use Your Illusion have some sort of reference to Izzy being gone. It goes back and forth tho to Axl cursing Izzy out before songs on stage after he left to Izzy coming right back when Gilby went down for a little while. I am led to think they had an odd relationship. I think when Izzy left it may have really hurt Axl and suddenly he lsot it a little. I have heard Slash in interviews point to Izzy's departure as when it all started to fall apart. Maybe being forced to be the centre of attention in the worlds biggest band and being accused of being all kinds or predjudice and everything else Axl was getting slammed with had him on the edge and losing an old friend just really sent things spinning downward. Anyone agree?

[Rockin' Rose]

Maybe

[Falcon]

Well, Axl's been somewhat less than prolific since Izzy's departure so draw your own conclusions..

[Dave_Rose]

I think it did have an effect on Axl I mean Izzy wrote some great songs didn't he write Patience erm and Izzy was a creative guitar very talented guy but I dont know how Axl feels about it well no one does really.

[jellyhead]

Izzy's contribution was huge.  To put it into perspective, since 1991 when Izzy left, GN'R have only released one new original song, Oh My God.  One new song in almost 14 years....

Kinda points towards who was doing the bulk of song ideas.   

[GypsySoul]

Seems to me (in my very limited knowledge of Izzy) that Izzy doesn't stick to any one gig for too long.? So I would think that he's been that way his entire life.? I also think that probably Axl, more than the rest of them, knew this about Izzy.? Just like Izzy probably knows Axl better than the rest of them.? Doesn't mean they like the way the other one is.? I think he and Axl are more like brothers that are constantly fighting but if one needed the other (like the Gilby thing), that they would be there for one another.? Anyways, I think Axl would have been more surprised if Izzy stuck around.

[Dave_Rose]

Its been 14 years of silence

[journey]

I would think if someone just left a band unexpectedly or sooner than desired, that would have an effect on the entire group of people involved. But, if he wasn't passionate about it  (the band) anymore, than it was for the best. Some people aren't comfortable living in the public eye, and that's totally understandable. He's still making music, I have three of his albums. But, I guess he wanted out of that whole lifestyle, so that's what he did.

[Krispy Kreme]

I was wondering if anyone else thought it had as grand an effect on Axl I think it did. I think this one probably stung more than anyone else leaving. Izzy, while not a major contributor as far as playing, was a big key to the song writing process and Axl and him wrote alot of great songs together. I have heard versions of their relationship that differ greatly as to how close they were back in Indiana but once in L.A. (a time that had to be a big adjustment period for both of them) they were together for a while. Also almost all of the videos from Use Your Illusion have some sort of reference to Izzy being gone. It goes back and forth tho to Axl cursing Izzy out before songs on stage after he left to Izzy coming right back when Gilby went down for a little while. I am led to think they had an odd relationship. I think when Izzy left it may have really hurt Axl and suddenly he lsot it a little. I have heard Slash in interviews point to Izzy's departure as when it all started to fall apart. Maybe being forced to be the centre of attention in the worlds biggest band and being accused of being all kinds or predjudice and everything else Axl was getting slammed with had him on the edge and losing an old friend just really sent things spinning downward. Anyone agree?

I agree 100%. Izzy's departure was the beginning of the end. He was the main song writer and when he left Axl figured he had to go in a different direction because he could not go in the same direction as well as Izzy.

[Krispy Kreme]

I think it did have an effect on Axl I mean Izzy wrote some great songs didn't he write Patience erm and Izzy was a creative guitar very talented guy but I dont know how Axl feels about it well no one does really.

Actually, we do know. Axl made repeated references to it at concerts. The most acerbic was in 1993 when he called Izzy a mother fucker and dedicated Double talking jive to Izzy in June 1993, which, as we all know, was reserved for people Axl had a particular hatred for. So obviously Axl was bitter over losing a long time friend and colleague.

[volcano62]

Its been 14 years of silence

 

[Johnnyblood]

In short, Izzy was probably Axl's last link to planet earth. More than anyone from the original lineup, Izzy understood the importance of basic songwriting structure, good riffs, and good chord changes. And you could draw a parallel between that sturdy creative approach and a broader approach to managing the band, something about which Axl obviously developed some odd theories, and sadly, he put them into practice (see: capturing the band name; threatening to fire lead guitarist onstage; non-communication with bandmates; endowing himself with leadership skills that he didn't actually have; etc).

With Izzy gone -- actually, before he was gone, hence his departure -- Axl had no one to connect him with these basic Rn'R principles. Axl also lost a touchstone with his Indiana past when Izzy left, someone he respected and someone with whom he had a common experience going back to high school days.

There was only one Izzy in Axl's life. You could argue that Slash, Duff, and Steven could be replaced, at least as far as their impact on Axl's psyche.

But Izzy was unique and irreplaceable. Without Izzy around Axl has had to totally reinvent the wheel, which is one reason I think it has taken so long for him to complete the current record. And we won't know if he can write a good Izzy-esque rock song until we hear the record. I think Izzy probably haunts Axl at times in a way that Slash never does.

Axl said it best sometime during the Appetite era: Izzy always was always the first one to know what the next move of the band should be. And after Appetite and Lies, Izzy's next major move was to leave GNR. He obviously was never into UYI, so when he finally left in '91 I immediately thought of that quote by Axl. How true, m'lord. How true.

[noizzynofuture]

Nice post johhny

And my avatar says how i feel

[Wheres Izzy]

wow (standing up and applauding for Johnny) nice post. Very nicely put.

[Mikkamakka]

In short, Izzy was probably Axl's last link to planet earth.

With Izzy gone -- actually, before he was gone, hence his departure -- Axl had no one to connect him with these basic Rn'R principles. Axl also lost a touchstone with his Indiana past when Izzy left, someone he respected and someone with whom he had a common experience going back to high school days.

There was only one Izzy in Axl's life. You could argue that Slash, Duff, and Steven could be replaced, at least as far as their impact on Axl's psyche.

I always had the same feeling. With Izzy gone Axl lost his connection to the band, 'cause (except Dizzy, who didn't really matter) they had similiar personalities, they were good friends and Gilby was also similiar to them so Axl felt he's alone, he thought he should fight against the other bandmembers, needed to strengthen his position, he fired Gilby and took his 'new Izzy', Paul Huge, but it totally broke up the band. And then he wanted to kill the old band and create a new one, 'his band'. But it's still doesn't seem to be working without Izzy. Izzy was very important for GN'R, but maybe they could have further Guns N' Roses without him, but Izzy was indispensible for Axl, so the band was over.

[RichardNixon]

IMHO, when Izzy left, GN'R became Axl's solo band, in his mind at least. And I agree that Izzy was the one who was the glue that held the band together, wrote great songs and helped Axl write great songs, understood music theory and how to write great hooks, and so on. When Izzy left, it was the begining of the end.

However, I think that Axl has found a new musical backbone and collaborative partner with General Tommy Stinson.

[sic.]

I think he and Axl are more like brothers that are constantly fighting but if one needed the other (like the Gilby thing), that they would be there for one another.?

I think that coins their relationship pretty well. Didn't Izzy even have another (albeit brief) visit in the band around the time Slash had left? I remember reading this from some magazine articles. Also, Axl even mentioned Izzy stopping by in front of his house in early 2000. But Axl was the one this time not willing for a meeting... Shame, really. I think Izzy could still make a very strong songwriting companion to Axl, even though he might never be a touring member of GNR again.

[anythinggoes]

Its been 14 years of silence

its been 14 years of pain

[Ted Nugent]

Wasn't there a reference in a Rollingstone article a while back about Izzy going to Axl's house and Axl left him standing at the door?

[anythinggoes]

Wasn't there a reference in a Rollingstone article a while back about Izzy going to Axl's house and Axl left him standing at the door?

axls side

Rose seems estranged from many old associates - a scenario not helped much by the numerous lawsuits that have occupied his attention for a significant part of the last decade. He casually mentions that a while back his security camera caught an unannounced visit by Izzy Stradlin to his front gate, but quickly adds that he had no interest in getting together with the old school buddy and former collaborator, whom he originally followed to Los Angeles from Indiana. ''It wouldn't be healthy for me,'' Rose explains. ''Izzy went back to Indiana,'' Rose continues, shaking his head in disbelief. ''That pretty much explains the absurdity of the whole goddamn thing. The fucking idea of going back to Indiana - I am not even bagging on Indiana - I just know how much Izzy hated it. I went to high school with this guy. It's pitiful. It was the fame of the heroin addiction and the fear of death. When Izzy woke up in New York with EKG pads all over his body and doesn't know how they got there, and knows, 'I think I OD'd last night and made it back home' - that was pretty much it. Before that he was pulling away, but that was the end. Then when he got straight...I think it really has to do with what it takes to face that big audience. I wouldn't call it stage fright. It's something else, and to psyche yourself up for that, the old Guns doesn't seem to be able to do it without medication.''

izzys side

He says his last face-to-face contact with Axl was six years ago. "I'd moved back out to LA. I bought this old Norton Commando 850, and was riding around one day and I thought, fuck it, I'll go by his house. Bastard, he lives up in the hills, in this big house, I'll go and see what he's up to, what he's doing, you know?

"And I go up and he's got security gates, cameras, walls, all this shit, you know. So I'm ringing the buzzer, and eventually somebody comes and takes me up and there he is. He's like, 'Hey, man! Glad to see you!' Gives me a big hug and shows me round his house. It was great.

"Then, I don't know, probably a month later, one night he calls me [and] we got into the issue of me leaving Guns N' Roses. I told him how it was on my side. Told him exactly how I felt about it and why I left. And man, that's the last time I've talked to the guy!

"But, I mean, he had a fucking notepad. I could hear him [turning the pages] going, `Well, ah, you said in 1982... blah blah blah...' And I'm like, what the fuck - 1982? He was bringing up a lot of really weird old shit. I'm like, whatever, man. But that's the last time I talked to him.

"Every two or three years I'll put a call in to the office and say, `Hey, tell Axl gimme a call if he wants to'. But I mean... the weirdness of his life. To me, I live pretty normal. I can go anywhere. In 2001, I don't think people really give a shit. But for Axl, I know for the longest time, because his face was all over the television and stuff, I don't think he could really go anywhere or do anything.

"And I think because of that he kind of put himself in a little hole up there in the hills. He kind of dug in deeper and deeper and now I think he's gone so fucking deep he's just... I mean, I could be completely wrong. But I know he doesn't drive [unheard of in LA] and he doesn't... he doesn't do anything. I've never, never seen him in town. Isolation can be a bad thing, but Axl's been at it for a long time now. You know, he always stays up at night..." He drifts off, not even trying to find the words this time.

[willow]

Okay heres my 2cents. Axl lives in  a world based on loyalty and trust. Izzy, (he thought was the one he could trust above all else). Izzy broke it all in one big move. The End

[GypsySoul]

In short, Izzy was probably Axl's last link to planet earth. More than anyone from the original lineup, Izzy understood the importance of basic songwriting structure, good riffs, and good chord changes.

Its been 14 years of silence

its been 14 years of pain

No offense to Izzy (or any of youze) but IMO Izzy leaving Guns had as much a bad effect on him, personally & professionally,? as it might've on Axl.
In those 14 years, Izzy has given us such great songs as ...
And didn't Weiland throw out ALL of the stuff Izzy contributed to Contraband?

It is kinda sad when long time friends part ways but that's just life.? People grow in different directions sometimes.

[Johnnyblood]

However, I think that Axl has found a new musical backbone and collaborative partner with General Tommy Stinson.

I agree about Tommy, and I think Fortus is another good guy to have around. It's good to hear Tommy talk about how much input all the members have. There's a lot of talent in the new lineup.

[FragileVision]

I agree, I think Stinson and Fortus are excellent guys to have in the band - They seem very enthusiastic, and loyal.

As for Izzy leaving, I definitely think that it had a huge effect on Axl - I mean, he's a fantastic lyricist and songwriter on his own, but the songs that he and Izzy cowrote just had a certain rock n' roll magic to them. Izzy is still my favorite Gunner, and I'll always miss his contributions.

But I'm extremely optimistic for what the new band has in store - I think that Stinson and Fortus have the right rock sensibilities to recapture an Izzy-like feeling for the music.

[Walapino]

I still dont understand whats the big biff with Axl and the fact that Izzy went back to Indiana or said whatever in 1982... thats pretty weird and sad actually. It would seem as Axl doesnt accept people changing their minds and feels "betrayed" if they do.
I really wish Izzy would one day return atleast to write songs with Axl for a future album, seems far fetched but stranger things have happened.