'Sicko' Shows Michael Moore's Maturity as a Filmmaker

[freedom78]

Pretty much every union here in Canada provides dental services...

Hell, if you stack cans down at Loblaws, you get your dental services covered right there, plus lots of other goodies

As far as prescriptions go, Canada has drug plans on both the federal, and provincial level.

Most of my Grandparents are on the "Trillium" plan, which Im fairly certain is federal.

That's what I thought.

So then what is this stuff Sandman is referencing?

If I make an appointment to see the doctor at 1:30, I know I'll probably end up twiddling my thumbs in the waiting room for a solid 20 minutes...its just the way it goes

I'm fairly certain that's not solely a Canadian problem.   

[Lisa]

?While the health care system in Canada covers basic services, including primary care physicians and hospitals, there are many services that are not covered. These include things like dental services, optometrists, and prescription medications.? http://www.canadian-healthcare.org/page4.html

"Public-sector spending on health care is expected to reach $104 billion this year (2006), while private-sector expenditures will reach an estimated $44 billion." (source: CIHI)


"The shortage of doctors and nurses in Canada: Some feel that Canada's health care system does not adequately compensate health care providers. This has led to a "brain drain" of Canadian doctors and nurses, which have left Canada to pursue careers in the United States. Attracting and keeping skilled medical workers is a priority if Canada is to be able to provide proper medical services."


the federal government in canada has established a $4.5 billion Wait Time Reduction Fund. i wonder why??? but at least there's been some improvements...

"Although provinces and territories report wait times in different ways, information shows median wait times for non-emergency care have clearly declined for some services. For example:

- In British Columbia, the wait time for cataract surgery has been reduced to 7.6 weeks from 9.9 weeks;
- In Ontario, the wait time for radiation for cancer care has been reduced to 4.4 weeks from 6.4 weeks;
- In Alberta, the wait time for hip replacement has been reduced to 12 weeks from 16 weeks and for knee replacement has dropped to 17 weeks from 22 weeks."


? ?

please note....non emergency services=wait times....and they are giving a very big range there. Please also note that YOU DO NOT LIVE HERE, therefore, as I stated earlier, you don't know how it works and it is easy to post stats but I can assure you that they are very broad and quite incorrect.
Medications we do pay for but it is not alot of money and most people work somewhere that has a drug plan to have these meds covered. Those who do not or cannot afford them get them for free from the government if they are on social assistance or low/fixed income. Typically, who cannot afford 12-16$ for antibiotics? please,cost of prescritions is not an issue here, especially in Ontario. Seniors are assisted with cost or receive them free, same goes for students as well.
Again, Dental is usually  included in most jobs but again, if your job does not offer a dental plan and you cannot afford it, the government will pay for it all or you pay what you can afford and they will pay the rest. There is alot of shared care programs for people of low/fixed income.
What you are missing the point on is regular heath care, access to doctors etc is FREE for EVERYONE..meaning a young family with a couple kids doesn't have to go into debt to have theirs kids innoculated, or get treatment for an ear infection...and we are NOT LIMITED as to how many times we feel the need to seek medical attention. You can post all the shit you find, all the stats that YOU think are fact but you will never actually know.
As for the shortage of family doctors, it is a problem in some areas, but no one suffers because of it. WE have walk-in care centres, urgent care centre and always the hospital emergency room if need be to seek medical help...at a big fat zero dollars.
FREE BASIC HEALTH CARE is what is needed in the US...people who live in poverty, most times die in poverty because they can't afford to go to hospital or a doctor. WAKE THE FUCK UP AMERICA!

[Chief]

That was great stuff thank you!!!!!

moore on CNN

Michael Moore Rips Wolf Blitzer on CNN: "Why Don't You Tell the American People the Truth"

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/video/56446/

[SLCPUNK]

If I make an appointment to see the doctor at 1:30, I know I'll probably end up twiddling my thumbs in the waiting room for a solid 20 minutes...its just the way it goes

Twenty minutes!!!???

I've waited well over an hour to see a doctor before even getting back into the exam room, where I continued to wait.

I'd say average wait here is 20 minutes no problem.

That was great stuff thank you!!!!!

Yea, Moore at his finest. I like it when people get some fire under their ass and get down with the get down.

On his website he continues to set them straight:

http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/news/article.php?id=10017

[SLCPUNK]

By Andrea Hopkins Thu Jul 12, 5:06 PM ET

CINCINNATI (Reuters) - Fresh from the hospital and still hurting from a $757 prescription drug bill, moviegoer Ron Jackson emerged from a screening of Michael Moore's documentary on the U.S. health system feeling outraged and exuberant.

"It's a great movie," said Jackson, 63. "I have insurance, and I still paid over $700 for one prescription -- just 30 days' worth. They've let Wall Street control the whole thing, it's as plain as the nose on my face."

Weeks into the staggered release of Moore's "SiCKO" across the United States, moviegoing Americans have revived the debate over national health care -- a staple in most of the developed world, but long resisted in the United States.

Health-care reform is a hot topic in the 2008 presidential campaign, and a slew of candidates have promised changes to bring better care to both insured Americans and the nation's 45 million uninsured.

Atia Huff, 64, said she was heartened by the applause that broke out at the end of the movie but worried only those who already agreed with Moore's outlook would bother to attend.

"I think it's preaching to the choir," Huff said.

Moore won an Academy Award for 2002's anti-gun documentary "Bowling for Columbine." He made more enemies -- and drew the label "enemy of America" from the right -- with a critical look at President George W. Bush's war on terrorism in his 2004 documentary "Fahrenheit 9/11."

"SiCKO" tells the stories of Americans who say they were denied life-saving treatment by insurers. The film has received mixed reviews, with some criticizing it for a lack of substantive comparison of the U.S. health-care system with that of countries that offer universal health care.

'IT'LL NEVER BE FIXED'

"It should be compulsory viewing for everybody, but some people don't want to hear," said Huff, a retired interpreter. She said she's already seen the movie twice -- the first time with a school teacher who said she'd worked too hard for her health-care benefits to pay for those who hadn't.

"I'm very pessimistic it will ever change," Huff said.

Many Americans remain firmly opposed to universal care.

"We are not a socialist country .... If our system is so poor, how is it we have one of the highest standards of living in the world?" asked Cincinnati electrician and businessman Mike Cavanaugh, who offers health insurance to his workers.

"Anyone, and I mean almost anyone, who is willing to go to work 40 or 50 hours a week and pretty much just do the minimum can have a decent life here," he said. "Tell Michael Moore to find a new home if he cannot appreciate the blessings this great country has bestowed upon him."

But in downtown Washington, Tom and Sue Stevens left a "SiCKO" screening more convinced than ever that the United States should adopt universal health care.

"We are ready, but the politicians and the businessmen are not. The health-care industry certainly is going to oppose this for all they're worth," said Tom, a college professor.

Sue, a retired medical technician, said she'd seen hospital administrators fight to contain costs for needed care.

"Everything now is based on cost -- how much money they can save. And a lot of people that work in hospitals themselves can't afford the insurance that hospitals offer because their pay is so low," she said.

In New York City, 75-year-old Philip Peppis said he was ready to vote for change in November 2008.

"How did this country get so completely selfish?" he asked after leaving a "SiCKO" matinee. "It's really embarrassing, the way this country treats people."

But in Columbus, Ohio, small business owner Sherry Pymer said she had no intention of seeing the movie and would never support universal health care.

"I'd be very, very afraid of that. You hear the stories about how bad health care is in Canada," said Pymer, 55. "Michael Moore is nothing to me. He's just somebody looking to get a big rise out of somebody."

[sandman]

?While the health care system in Canada covers basic services, including primary care physicians and hospitals, there are many services that are not covered. These include things like dental services, optometrists, and prescription medications.? http://www.canadian-healthcare.org/page4.html

"Public-sector spending on health care is expected to reach $104 billion this year (2006), while private-sector expenditures will reach an estimated $44 billion." (source: CIHI)


"The shortage of doctors and nurses in Canada: Some feel that Canada's health care system does not adequately compensate health care providers. This has led to a "brain drain" of Canadian doctors and nurses, which have left Canada to pursue careers in the United States. Attracting and keeping skilled medical workers is a priority if Canada is to be able to provide proper medical services."


the federal government in canada has established a $4.5 billion Wait Time Reduction Fund. i wonder why??? but at least there's been some improvements...

"Although provinces and territories report wait times in different ways, information shows median wait times for non-emergency care have clearly declined for some services. For example:

- In British Columbia, the wait time for cataract surgery has been reduced to 7.6 weeks from 9.9 weeks;
- In Ontario, the wait time for radiation for cancer care has been reduced to 4.4 weeks from 6.4 weeks;
- In Alberta, the wait time for hip replacement has been reduced to 12 weeks from 16 weeks and for knee replacement has dropped to 17 weeks from 22 weeks."


? ?

FREE BASIC HEALTH CARE is what is needed in the US...people who live in poverty, most times die in poverty because they can't afford to go to hospital or a doctor. WAKE THE FUCK UP AMERICA!

i could turn your statement around on you and say "you do not live here so you do not know how it is." but i won't because that would be simple-minded. throughout this thread i have admitted i am not sure what system would be better, and that i am not completely aware of all the issues of the U.S. system, not to mention foreign ones.

many in this thread have also been sharing information. your attitude is a small example of the major problem...no one talks about change. people get defensive and are more concerned with being "right" than actually effecting anything. if people better understand social systems and begin to feel confident that the pitfalls can be avoided, maybe more pressure will be put on washington.

and by the way, 5 weeks wait time for radiation for cancer is life threatening.

[sandman]

we could all post horror stories all day.

http://www.thestar.com/article/216280 - A year wait for skull surgery in Canada.

[SLCPUNK]

Corporate Amerika loves guys like Sandman. 

[freedom78]

Canada is not good enough example 'eh? Canadians posting in this thread saying they get to a doctor without a hassle is not good enough? The fact that they are not turned down for payment of service by greedy HMOs isn't strong enough evidence?

NO!! a couple canadians posting in these threads is NOT enough.

we could all post horror stories all day.
http://www.thestar.com/article/216280 - A year wait for skull surgery in Canada.

Perhaps the logic escapes me, but if the testimonials of board Canadians aren't evidence of a good system, then why are stories of poor care (which is tied to a specific problem in ONE province, by the way) evidence that it's a bad system?  I don't think anyone has argued that it's a perfect system.  I don't think anyone has argued that it should be replicated 100%, flaws and all.  We can learn a great deal from the problems others have had with national healthcare, and adjust any system we create accordingly. 

As long as there are 47 million uninsured people in the US, we have a  healthcare problem.  Canada has a population of 32 million, and we have 47 million uninsured.  We have MORE uninsured people than they have people!  Yeah...and THEIR system is the one with problems.       

[GeorgeSteele]

A friend of mine just left his job to start his own business, so he loses the health coverage from that job, unless he pays the COBRA premium - $1,250 a month for family coverage.  And COBRA expires after 18 months, so it will be even higher than that when he has to enroll in an individual, non-employer plan. 

[sandman]

Canada is not good enough example 'eh? Canadians posting in this thread saying they get to a doctor without a hassle is not good enough? The fact that they are not turned down for payment of service by greedy HMOs isn't strong enough evidence?

NO!! a couple canadians posting in these threads is NOT enough.

we could all post horror stories all day.
http://www.thestar.com/article/216280 - A year wait for skull surgery in Canada.

Perhaps the logic escapes me, but if the testimonials of board Canadians aren't evidence of a good system, then why are stories of poor care (which is tied to a specific problem in ONE province, by the way) evidence that it's a bad system?? I don't think anyone has argued that it's a perfect system.? I don't think anyone has argued that it should be replicated 100%, flaws and all.? We can learn a great deal from the problems others have had with national healthcare, and adjust any system we create accordingly.?

As long as there are 47 million uninsured people in the US, we have a? healthcare problem.? Canada has a population of 32 million, and we have 47 million uninsured.? We have MORE uninsured people than they have people!? Yeah...and THEIR system is the one with problems.? ? ? ?

i agree. and i haven't argued what you accuse me of.

but you're trying to simplify a very complicated issue.

[freedom78]

i agree. and i haven't argued what you accuse me of.

but you're trying to simplify a very complicated issue.

Do you mean that you haven't argued that it's a bad system?  Perhaps you haven't said it as such, but as you keep offering up evidence of its failures, I did draw that conclusion.  You're a confounding person, sandman (take that as a compliment).  You offer up moderately conservative views, yet claim to be leaning toward Hillary (I THINK that was you  ).  You give evidence of Canadian healthcare failures, but don't think it's bad.         

But I don't mean to oversimplify!  I'm no healthcare expert, by any stretch, but I certainly realize that this is an enormous problem which may require a complex solution.  But I do think it's simple to look at the state of American healthcare and to say that there is a problem. 

[SLCPUNK]

A friend of mine just left his job to start his own business, so he loses the health coverage from that job, unless he pays the COBRA premium - $1,250 a month for family coverage.  And COBRA expires after 18 months, so it will be even higher than that when he has to enroll in an individual, non-employer plan. 

I never really understood COBRA, why is it so friggin expensive?

[GeorgeSteele]

A friend of mine just left his job to start his own business, so he loses the health coverage from that job, unless he pays the COBRA premium - $1,250 a month for family coverage.? And COBRA expires after 18 months, so it will be even higher than that when he has to enroll in an individual, non-employer plan.?

I never really understood COBRA, why is it so friggin expensive?

I'm no expert, but if you're covered under an employer plan, you and the employer split the premium (usually around 25%/75%).  Once you quit or get fired, the COBRA rules require the employer to give you the option of staying in that plan for up to 18 months, except you're now on the hook for 100% of the premium.

[freedom78]

A friend of mine just left his job to start his own business, so he loses the health coverage from that job, unless he pays the COBRA premium - $1,250 a month for family coverage.  And COBRA expires after 18 months, so it will be even higher than that when he has to enroll in an individual, non-employer plan. 

I never really understood COBRA, why is it so friggin expensive?

I'm no expert, but if you're covered under an employer plan, you and the employer split the premium (usually around 25%/75%).  Once you quit or get fired, the COBRA rules require the employer to give you the option of staying in that plan for up to 18 months, except you're now on the hook for 100% of the premium.

That sounds about right to me.

[SLCPUNK]

That sounds about right to me.

Ra ra, ra RA ra ra..........

[freedom78]

That sounds about right to me.

Ra ra, ra RA ra ra..........

Touch?.

[SLCPUNK]

Oh little Cheney, you got so much love, little Cheney
And you take it where it strikes and give it to the likes of me
Oh little Cheney, he got so much love, little Cheney
So I see you when I can, you make me all a man can be

And I want you to be my acrobat, I want you to be my lover
Oh there were others who would treat you cruel
And oh little Cheney, you were always someone's fool

Little Cheney, you got so much time, little Cheney
Though you've grown beyond your years, you still retain the fears of youth
Oh little Cheney, you got so much time, little Cheney
But you're burning it up so fast, searching for some lasting truth

And I want you to be my acrobat, I want you to be my lover
Oh there were others who would treat you cruel
But oh Cheney, I will always be your fool

And I want you to be my acrobat, I want you to be my lover
Oh there were others, and I've known quite a few
But oh oh Cheney, I'm still in love with you

Stepped into my life from a bad dream
Making the life that I had seem suddenly shiny and new
Oh Cheney I'm so in love with you
Stepped into my life from a bad dream

[Drew]

Michael Moore is a prime example of what is wrong with our health care rigth now. Just look at him and how overweight he is. And here he is running is mouth about giving control of health care over to the government. I mean come own?? Why in the hell would I ever want to turn my health care over to the government. I mean, they done such a great job with social security and other programs haven't they? 

And now the government wants to be in charge of what doctor I see and when I see the doctor? No fucking way!!!!

I don't see high marks about this health care program in Canada. All I hear is bad thing after bad thing after bad thing.

[stolat]

At least the people can make the government accountable for a poor health system.

Big business is accountable to nobody.