I Can't Believe What I Just Heard!!

[Angel Down]

Was watching a news story about the latest high school massacre.

In light of it, students are now demanding they be allowed to carry guns on campus, so they can defend themselves. 

Yeh, that's a solution! 

[GNRfan2008]

Are you talking about the shooting at Northern Illinois University? If so, it's not a high school. And they're adults by the time they're in college. This is the second college slaughter in the last 10 months. If they feel that they need to carry a weapon to protect themselves or help others in such a situation, then I support it.

[Angel Down]

University students!

By that stage of their education, I would expect them to know so much better.

Perhaps, the notion is being expressed by Freshmen, straight out of highschool?

Is it too costly to provide metal detectors?


Also, I am suprised that the student's lecturers did not pick up on any emotional disturbance? Unfortunately, many university teachers do not exercise proper duty of care of their students. Yes, they are young adults - who still need to be supported and guided so they may reach their full potential at university.

I can only hope that some good educators on campus use the opportunity to discuss the issue and explore the question - 'should uni students be allowed to arm themselves'.

You do bring up two debatable points GNRfan2008 - the need for protection or to help others.

[The Dog]

Are you talking about the shooting at Northern Illinois University? If so, it's not a high school. And they're adults by the time they're in college. This is the second college slaughter in the last 10 months. If they feel that they need to carry a weapon to protect themselves or help others in such a situation, then I support it.

are you out of your mind?

I couldn't list all of the reasons why this would be an absolutely terrible idea...

[Genesis]

I think they need to improve security on campuses. You shouldn't be able to walk in with a gun, let alone three. More cops are needed on campus. Allowing students to carry guns is the stupidest thing I've heard in light of what has happened.

[norway]

More cops are needed on campus.

You must have horrible conditions there, hope for a change in USA.

[lynn1961]

Are you talking about the shooting at Northern Illinois University? If so, it's not a high school. And they're adults by the time they're in college. This is the second college slaughter in the last 10 months. If they feel that they need to carry a weapon to protect themselves or help others in such a situation, then I support it.

I don't agree with that.  They may be adults, but you get one fucker..one psycho/stupid fucker that walks in with a gun.  Second college slaughter in the last 10 months?  Let's talk about the past slaughters...high schools, elementary schools, anywhere. Then there is work places, too.  And McDonald's.  Some random store in a mall  It's America.  The right to bear arms has gone overboard.  I don't agree that we have the right to bear arms, like that.   I, personally, don't believe that the "right to bear arns" has anything to do with carrying a gun.     

[Angel Down]

I recall that Finland was recently rocked by several massacres/attempted massacres.

Is is true that Finnish people also 'have the right to bear arms'?

If it is true, then how is this right explained in the Finnish Constitution?

Just to compare the two.

[GNRfan2008]

Are you talking about the shooting at Northern Illinois University? If so, it's not a high school. And they're adults by the time they're in college. This is the second college slaughter in the last 10 months. If they feel that they need to carry a weapon to protect themselves or help others in such a situation, then I support it.

I don't agree with that.  They may be adults, but you get one fucker..one psycho/stupid fucker that walks in with a gun.  Second college slaughter in the last 10 months?  Let's talk about the past slaughters...high schools, elementary schools, anywhere. Then there is work places, too.  And McDonald's.  Some random store in a mall  It's America.  The right to bear arms has gone overboard.  I don't agree that we have the right to bear arms, like that.   I, personally, don't believe that the "right to bear arns" has anything to do with carrying a gun.     

Never owned a gun in my life nor do I ever plan on it, but I am a college student at a big school (second largest in the nation in terms of acreage, so it is very spread out and very difficult to monitor every inch of the campus properly) and I realize how easy it would be for some nut to come in blasting away at random classes, which is exactly what happened at Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois. If there aren't laws to somehow stop the whackjobs from having guns in the first place, then I'd feel more comfortable if there was better security -- perhaps a cop in every class (holy shit, the costs on this would be through the roof at major universities) or the more chaotic free for all with everyone being allowed to have a gun on campus if they are licensed to do so. Anyway, something should be done about the issue. Perhaps banning guns altogether but the problem with that is the criminals will always find a way to get weapons on the black market and one of the good things about this country is that a woman can actually save herself from getting mugged and raped if she has a gun in her purse. Likewise, older people can protect themselves from getting mugged.

Also, I am surprised that the student's lecturers did not pick up on any emotional disturbance? Unfortunately, many university teachers do not exercise proper duty of care of their students. Yes, they are young adults - who still need to be supported and guided so they may reach their full potential at university.

They said he was off his medication and that he wasn't even a student at NIU at the time of the shooting. He had transferred after the Spring 2007 semester to the University of Illinois. He was also described as harmless and gentle by people who knew him. So it has nothing to do with NIU's professors. He got off his meds and went bat-shit crazy. Perhaps now they will start instituting at the very least metal detectors at every door to enter college class buildings.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080216/NEWS07/802160362/1008

[Izzy]

Was watching a news story about the latest high school massacre.

In light of it, students are now demanding they be allowed to carry guns on campus, so they can defend themselves. 

Yeh, that's a solution! 

hmmm, solutions....solutions

here's one....its a shot in the dark i know, a bit...'far out' perhaps, but i'll say it anyway

Ban guns

How many shootings in college and Universities has the UK had.......

Hmm i wonder.....

[mrlee]

why not just do what the UK do and install cameras everywhere so nothing is private so people would shit themselves for one, and two more likely to be caught before it happens.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Are you talking about the shooting at Northern Illinois University? If so, it's not a high school. And they're adults by the time they're in college. This is the second college slaughter in the last 10 months. If they feel that they need to carry a weapon to protect themselves or help others in such a situation, then I support it.

At first that sounds like a good solution, but the more I think about it...I was undergrad. in college about 15 years ago.  Are the kids anymore mature or responsible now than they were then?  The overwhelming majority of students at school were responsible and mature...but with more students armed, inevitably that will lead to more V. Techs and N. Illinois' situations.  Sure, a brave student may react in time to take out the gunman halfway through a rampage....but....it also may make the situation even worse by exciting the shooter and turning the horrible situation into more of a game.  Hell, I didn't trust my suite-mates when it came to taking my Ramen Noodles!  What'll happen when they're pissed at a girlfriend or boyfriend, if they come home drunk from partying, and guns are everywhere?  It just doesn't seem like a safe situation to me. 

That said, I don't know what the answer is...or even if there is an answer.  I do agree that technology that employs cameras can be very helpful, especially in densely-packed populations...but that still probably wouldn't have made a difference in the N. Illinois tragedy.      

[CheapJon]

Was watching a news story about the latest high school massacre.

In light of it, students are now demanding they be allowed to carry guns on campus, so they can defend themselves. 

Yeh, that's a solution! 

hmmm, solutions....solutions

here's one....its a shot in the dark i know, a bit...'far out' perhaps, but i'll say it anyway

Ban guns

How many shootings in college and Universities has the UK had.......

Hmm i wonder.....

exactly, civilians don't need guns

[Angel Down]

That said, I don't know what the answer is...or even if there is an answer.  I do agree that technology that employs cameras can be very helpful, especially in densely-packed populations...but that still probably wouldn't have made a difference in the N. Illinois tragedy.      

Perhaps, the answer may be to write it out of the constitution.

Other countries have very strict gun laws, where it is forbidden to carry a gun in public. In fact, these countries make sure that any behaviour to do with guns is very strictly policed.

[TAP]

I was a graduate student at NIU ( quite a while ago), had an office in the building right next to the lecture theater where the shooting happened. 

[Axl4Prez2004]

That said, I don't know what the answer is...or even if there is an answer.  I do agree that technology that employs cameras can be very helpful, especially in densely-packed populations...but that still probably wouldn't have made a difference in the N. Illinois tragedy.      

Perhaps, the answer may be to write it out of the constitution.

Other countries have very strict gun laws, where it is forbidden to carry a gun in public. In fact, these countries make sure that any behaviour to do with guns is very strictly policed.

Well, that may be a problem.  I'm sure the Founding Fathers of this country never imagined guns like the guns of today.  For god's sake, what were they back then, muskets?  How long did it take to load those damn things?  There has to be a middle ground between banning every firearm in the country and letting folks walk around with automatic weapons.  Where that middle ground lays perhaps might best left to the states?  If I lived on a farm or out in the middle of the wilderness, you can bet your ass I'd have firearms.  If folks are living in the city, are there many examples of folks using concealed weapons as a deterrent?  I don't think so, but I'm not sure. 

[Genesis]

More cops are needed on campus.

You must have horrible conditions there, hope for a change in USA.

Thankfully, I don't live in the U.S of A.

[Angel Down]

Good points.

Why any civilian feels the need to carry around semi automatic weapons is beyond me. They could definately be banned.

But then that doesn't address the problem of say a sniper rifle.

mmm, bad thought: It just occurred to me that these campus shootings, and the like, could very well be the old U S of A's version of the suicide bombing. 

Same effect, only different weapon.

[BlowUpYourVideo]

a shot in the dark

Was that deliberate??

[Axl4Prez2004]

Good points.

Why any civilian feels the need to carry around semi automatic weapons is beyond me. They could definately be banned.

But then that doesn't address the problem of say a sniper rifle.

mmm, bad thought: It just occurred to me that these campus shootings, and the like, could very well be the old U S of A's version of the suicide bombing. 

Same effect, only different weapon.

Nah, the fundamentalist terrorists actually have a message.  These a-holes over here are just angry and decide to take their frustrations out on the innocents around them.  Both types of suicide/homicide are horrible and wrong, but at least I can see there's an ideology behind one of them (no matter how warped it is).

It still is important to remember as horrible as all this stuff is, every year there are more suicides than homicides.  The biggest threat to your long-term well-being and safety is looking right back at you in your mirror.   

[fuckin crazy]

Archie Bunker hits the nail on the head.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CLjNJI54GMM

[*Timothy*]

Archie Bunker hits the nail on the head.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CLjNJI54GMM

 

Bunker you be crazy!

[SLCPUNK]

How many shootings over the last few weeks? About three separate incidents?

[polluxlm]

Worried about going to school?

[CheapJon]

Worried about going to school?

not in sweden

[Vicious Wishes]

Arming everyone isn't the answer. Outlawing guns isn't the answer either, because if you do, only criminals will have them. There are millions of guns in the USA. Even if you banished them today, there are still millions of guns in the USA. I don't know the answer, but I know people who really want them will find a way, legally or illegally. A gun is as easy to find as pot or a piece of ass. And if you don't know how to find any of these things you're quite sheltered.

[Angel Down]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Nah, the fundamentalist terrorists actually have a message. 

And the message being expressed by the school shooters:

Society has let me down.

It's time to find/breakdown the hidden messages given by these poor victims.

[SLCPUNK]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

I don't accept your argument, but pretending I wanted to play along...Which one should we eliminate in order to stop these shootings?

[Angel Down]

 

The gun manufacturers!

(Two birds with one stone)...

[SLCPUNK]

Maybe we should rid the earth of people and let the guns live in peace. Hmmm?

[Angel Down]

Well, there would be no-one around to pull the triggers!

[SLCPUNK]

See, now it's safe.

[polluxlm]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

I don't accept your argument, but pretending I wanted to play along...Which one should we eliminate in order to stop these shootings?

Society, in it's current state, needs to be eliminated.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Nah, the fundamentalist terrorists actually have a message. 

And the message being expressed by the school shooters:

Society has let me down.

It's time to find/breakdown the hidden messages given by these poor victims.

The "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument is quite absurd.  The same could be said for nuclear weapons.  "Nuclear weapons don't kill millions of people.  People kill millions of people!"  That puts it into perspective for me. 

btw, I understand why you label these murderers as "victims."  I really do.  Whether they are the victims of poor parenting, poor genes, a less than ideal environment growing up, a system unable or unwilling to recognize their mental health needs, etc., it all sucks. 

Here's what I do know.  This dude has had psych. issues in the past but was able to stroll into a fucking gun shop, buy the weaponry necessary for a blood bath, and carry out his plan.  This wasn't some "spur of the moment" "crime of passion."  It was cold, calculated, and fucking evil.  Shit like this can't be stopped.  Fuckers like this will continue to slip through the system. 

So, what have we learned.
1  There are crazy people.
2. There will always be crazy people.
3. If crazy people get guns, many people can die.

Solutions?  Anybody??

Personally, I think we need gun control.  Weaponry has developed so far past what our Founding Fathers meant when it came to bearing arms.  Does anybody here really think their pistols, rifles, etc. will provide adequate protection from the rise of a totalitarian government power?  Give me a break.

[fuckin crazy]

Solutions?  Anybody??

Put the mentally unstable in the same FBI data base that contains felons and spouse abusers. That would prevent the vast majority of these people from getting firearms.

Personally, I think we need gun control.  Weaponry has developed so far past what our Founding Fathers meant when it came to bearing arms.  Does anybody here really think their pistols, rifles, etc. will provide adequate protection from the rise of a totalitarian government power?  Give me a break.

I disagree with gun control. There are laws on the books, if used, that would prevent most of the carnage. We have a constitution right to keep and bear arms, and I will exercise my rights to keep it that way.

This country has lost too many of it's freedoms. Once they are gone, you don't get them back. I don't want anyone taking any of my freedoms.

And yes, small arms are a deterrent to tyranny. The reason for most people wanting to get out of Iraq is because of casualties. Most of those casualties are caused by small arms and IEDs. Remember Bosnia? ... small arms.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"-Ben Franklin

[polluxlm]

Solutions?  Anybody??

Put the mentally unstable in the same FBI data base that contains felons and spouse abusers. That would prevent the vast majority of these people from getting firearms.

These days, mentally unstable is what exactly?

See, to me singling out 'potentials' on secret government lists isn't a solution in a society that is at least under the impression of being free. We should focus on why society produce these people.

But that's just tedious, right! Let's drug, imprison and kill whatever comes out of the machine instead. We're making money here, after all.

[fuckin crazy]

These days, mentally unstable is what exactly?

Involuntary commitment to a mental institution.

We should focus on why society produce these people.

A lot of it is brain chemistry.

[polluxlm]

These days, mentally unstable is what exactly?

Involuntary commitment to a mental institution.

That's the effect, not the cause. What is the cause?

We should focus on why society produce these people.

A lot of it is brain chemistry.

No shit! But you as I know the brain doesn't produce chemicals for no reason. There's always an external factor.

 

[fuckin crazy]

These days, mentally unstable is what exactly?

Involuntary commitment to a mental institution.

That's the effect, not the cause. What is the cause?

We should focus on why society produce these people.

A lot of it is brain chemistry.

No shit! But you as I know the brain doesn't produce chemicals for no reason. There's always an external factor.

 

How about genetics then. Many of these wacks that go all postal have been diagnosed paranoid/schizophrenic.

But here is one that wasn't, but he didn't kill anyone but himself.

Killdozer

[polluxlm]

Genetics explain why a person may have certain traits and predispositions. Which means you may carry the increased probability of flying of the bat in your genes, but that still has to be triggered by some external set of events. So once again it comes down to the structure of society.

We can also mention the not so insubstantial amount of synthetic shit we consume each day. May have an unpleasant effect on our genetic material.

You ask me all this focus on genes and mental state is starting to sound very vaterlandish.

Ihren papieren bitte?

[fuckin crazy]

You ask me all this focus on genes and mental state is starting to sound very vaterlandish.

Ihren papieren bitte?

That will only happen if we get another Republican this fall.

[polluxlm]

You ask me all this focus on genes and mental state is starting to sound very vaterlandish.

Ihren papieren bitte?

That will only happen if we get another Republican this fall.

Republicans, democrats. Show me the difference.

They both like to arm and bomb, spend your tax dollars on hookers, toxify your food and vote you into misery. Fuck, in reality Clinton was a bigger dealer than Escobar. Johnson? The Kennedy's? Please.

[fuckin crazy]

Fuck, in reality Clinton was a bigger dealer than Escobar.

Maybe, but Bush consumed more of the product.

[Angel Down]

The "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument is quite absurd.  The same could be said for nuclear weapons.  "Nuclear weapons don't kill millions of people.  People kill millions of people!"  That puts it into perspective for me. 

OK, let me take you back to the Regan Years - you remember how close we got to being blown to smithereens - that 7 second dely button - MAD!

Why were people so concerned when Regan was in power?  Wasn't the button just beside his bed? (joke at the time) Wasn't the decision up to him?

You don't want people like that waking up with a grumpy head...

[Sin Cut]

I recall that Finland was recently rocked by several massacres/attempted massacres.

Is is true that Finnish people also 'have the right to bear arms'?

If it is true, then how is this right explained in the Finnish Constitution?

Just to compare the two.

Off course we're armed, we got polarbears dammit! And mammoths.

So, what have we learned.
1  There are crazy people.
2. There will always be crazy people.
3. If crazy people get guns, many people can die.

Solutions?  Anybody??

Personally, I think we need gun control.  Weaponry has developed so far past what our Founding Fathers meant when it came to bearing arms.  Does anybody here really think their pistols, rifles, etc. will provide adequate protection from the rise of a totalitarian government power?  Give me a break.

Don't get insane.

[SLCPUNK]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

I don't accept your argument, but pretending I wanted to play along...Which one should we eliminate in order to stop these shootings?

Society, in it's current state, needs to be eliminated.

Just the guys who gang bang dolls.

[Bandita]

I know I am late to this thread but I can't believe someone actually said the solution to this is to have students running around with more guns.  Gee, what a great idea that would be on a college campus where some are probably drunk or high. 

I didn't read through everything here but to me the issue is how damn easy it is to GET guns in this country.  That is what truly scares me.

[Axl4Prez2004]

I know I am late to this thread but I can't believe someone actually said the solution to this is to have students running around with more guns.  Gee, what a great idea that would be on a college campus where some are probably drunk or high. 

I didn't read through everything here but to me the issue is how damn easy it is to GET guns in this country.  That is what truly scares me.

Absolutely Bandita.  We've got a country full of people who can't control their impulses...let's give 'em easy access to weapons that can kill lots of people really fast.    

F'in Crazy, maybe you misunderstood me when I said gun control.  Shouldn't there be some longer waiting periods?  mandatory background checks?  etc.??  Didn't this latest dumb-ass at Northern Illinois U. purchase his weaponry recently?  Come on.

[fuckin crazy]

F'in Crazy, maybe you misunderstood me when I said gun control.  Shouldn't there be some longer waiting periods?  mandatory background checks?  etc.??  Didn't this latest dumb-ass at Northern Illinois U. purchase his weaponry recently?  Come on.

I think the 7 day wait is long enough for people to cool down. I believe that was the purpose for it's institution. Currently, only 24 states use the federal government for background checks(NICS), the others use their own systems; which is a recipe for disaster.

Both the NIU student and the VT one bought their firearms through a legal business, but they were acquired illegally. That is why the NICS needs to be revamped to prevent this type of thing from happening.

The NICS, if it had a listing of institutionalized people, and all states used it, would have prevented, or at the very least mitigated, both of those tragedies.

[Jaci_Roxx]

I recall that Finland was recently rocked by several massacres/attempted massacres.

Is is true that Finnish people also 'have the right to bear arms'?

If it is true, then how is this right explained in the Finnish Constitution?

Just to compare the two.

We don't have the right to bear arms in Finland, and we need a license for a weapon (you can only get one if you can prove that it's your hobby and have someone agreeing with you on that etc). And it's not possible, or at least it's very difficult to get a license for a weapon that's been classified very dangerous (ie. automatic weapons).
But of course you can get guns illegally here as well. But I think the kid who killed people at school here actually had a license for his weapon. I think it was a Mosquito 22. (We have the same gun at home.)

He thought he was doing the right thing. He was killing people who "didn't deserve to live"... Helping the natural selection or something. And then he killed himself.  He had been described meds for depression but he didn't take them, there was none in his blood at the time of the shooting. He may have had several conditions, but we will never know.

[crazycheryl]

Honestly, I think spree killing is a trend. these kids decide to kill themselves but want to go out in a blaze of glory instead of just quietly offing themselves. They see how much media attention and uproar it causes in society and they figure, well, I was never famous for anything and if I died no one would care or even know what I suffered through, so why not get my 15 minutes after I am gone. People will sure remember me. I will make a lasting mark on society even if I am dead. Whereas before I would pass away without so much as a whisper, this will cause everyone to rage because I took other people with me.

I honestly think that sort of twisted thinking is going on with these kids. They want to be glorified in death for something they were not in life. It is so very sad that most of these kids think mass killings are their claim to fame. Maybe, if we didn't give them as much attention, other folks considering suicide and taking several people with them, would think twice about taking the other people with them.

But too, there is so much hate in society because of all the unfairness that people must deal with on a day to day basis. Believe me, I've made threats like I want to blow up the cable company after making appointments several times, taking time off of work, and then no one shows up but I would never do that. I just get extremely frustrated at the state of society and how the average Joe must put up with so much shit because we really don't have control over so many things in life. But a normal person will just find boards like this to bitch or bitch to friends to get stuff off their chest. Some people just snap and bam. But I see a disturbing trend with society and parents not teaching their kids that life is going to be unfair. My parents would tell me to get over it because life was unfair. They never tried to make situations fair just because that is how it is supposed to be. So, I learned early on that life basically is never fair for reasons we can understand and some we can not. But I see parents today that try to make everything fair for their kids and will even go to bat for the kid to make sure their kid is treated fairly. While I understand the thinking here, IMO it is just better to let the kids learn and explain to them that things are not fair and we can't always do something about it. I do this with my kids and they are cool when they don't always get their way at home and school because they are starting to get this fact.

[Angel Down]

IMO it is just better to let the kids learn and explain to them that things are not fair and we can't always do something about it.

Try growing up with parents and grandparents who went through WW2!

At least that is one lesson they were able to pass on the next generation.

[russkwtx]

If I were a teacher or a professor the last thing I would want is for my students to be carrying guns on campus or to the classroom. What happens if the student does not like the grade he got on his midterm? What if a student is upset at something I said or showed in class? What if the student simply did not like me, for whatever reason? It does happen. Educators should not have to live in fear for their lives or worry about getting blown away over a grade some wacko considers "unfair."

[crazycheryl]

If I were a teacher or a professor the last thing I would want is for my students to be carrying guns on campus or to the classroom. What happens if the student does not like the grade he got on his midterm? What if a student is upset at something I said or showed in class? What if the student simply did not like me, for whatever reason? It does happen. Educators should not have to live in fear for their lives or worry about getting blown away over a grade some wacko considers "unfair."

Absolutely. You are a 100% right. It is moving in that direction. I see parents - I have kids - who are pissed that their son or daughter got a certain grade and they actually go to the teacher and argue to see if the paper can't be regraded. I'd actually be afraid of the parents too!

[Gunner80]

Was watching a news story about the latest high school massacre.

In light of it, students are now demanding they be allowed to carry guns on campus, so they can defend themselves. 

Yeh, that's a solution! 

hmmm, solutions....solutions

here's one....its a shot in the dark i know, a bit...'far out' perhaps, but i'll say it anyway

Ban guns

How many shootings in college and Universities has the UK had.......

Hmm i wonder.....

Yeah that will fix everything.  Shit happens in life, how far are you willing to go? Are you willing to sacrifice more and more of your freedom for complete safety?

P.S. I own four rifles and one .22 magnum, and the last time I checked they have killed zero people.

[GeorgeSteele]

Was watching a news story about the latest high school massacre.

In light of it, students are now demanding they be allowed to carry guns on campus, so they can defend themselves. 

Yeh, that's a solution! 

hmmm, solutions....solutions

here's one....its a shot in the dark i know, a bit...'far out' perhaps, but i'll say it anyway

Ban guns

How many shootings in college and Universities has the UK had.......

Hmm i wonder.....

Yeah that will fix everything.  Shit happens in life, how far are you willing to go? Are you willing to sacrifice more and more of your freedom for complete safety?

P.S. I own four rifles and one .22 magnum, and the last time I checked they have killed zero people.

The Bill of Rights was not created to narrow our understanding of what is means to be free.  If a person can't go to college without the threat of being shot, they're not free.
 

[w.axl.rose]

whats up with all these school shooting and threats? i just got an email that was sent to all school students saying that someone has issued a thread on our campus and they are allowing us to stay home this friday and that LAPD will be investigating this and will have major security on friday 

[SLCPUNK]

The Bill of Rights was not created to narrow our understanding of what is means to be free.  If a person can't go to college without the threat of being shot, they're not free.
 

Nice.