Here Today... Gone To Hell!

here's the link.  

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story?id=6185031&pageid=rs.Home&pageregion=single2 (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story?id=6185031&pageid=rs.Home&pageregion=single2)

Read the 10th paragraph.

Mysteryon... you know anything about this?  or anyone??

Hope this isn't true


Edit by Will: link fixed

Who the fuck is Slash to tell me what's goin' on with Chinese Democracy? If I know well, he's out of GNR about 8 years ago.

Here's what Slash says: "I don't know any more than you do," Slash says of Chinese Democracy. "There's only a couple of songs with vocals on it -- I know that for a fact. But it will come out one of these days."

Only a couple of songs with vocals on it? I count at least six: Oh My God, Chinese Democracy, Mad., Rhiad, Silkworms and The Blues. The album w/o vocals thing is an urban legend...There's just no way Brian May and other insiders lied when they say they heard at least 12-15 songs with vocals...Plus I don't see Axl working ten years on a project w/o recording vocals. It just does not add up.

yeah i think thats bullshit

but just cause he played those songs live doesnt mean he has actually finished the vocals  though, gotta remember that

shit i have over 40 songs complete for my cd and i only have vocals actually complete on 2

so hell anything is possible

but how would slash know that private info?

and i thought he didnt give a shit anymore

Brian May said in 2000 axl had 2-3 albums worth of material with vocals on it.
This is just more proof is a LIAR

Slash has been out of the loop for YEARS.....I think he's one of the worst possible sources for Axl info out there ( along with MYSTERIOUS POSTER, and others who I shall not name :hihi:.

Dunno how slash knows this or heard it. I say he's full of shit on this one

where did brian may say he has  2 or 3 albums with vocals?

vocals are usually last folks if he had the vocals done we'd have an album thats a fact


didnt tommy or one of the members say that all their parts were done but axls?


i believe its true

this doesnt mean he doesnt have lyrics


its just he hasnt gotten around to recording them

Strange.

Whatever though. Maybe it was taken out of context.

I don't trust any writers.

Maybe Axl was upset with his vocals and deleted them. Who knows?

However I think and hope it's not true.

he heard them
he said axl played him pretty much everything he had done
and that was 2 or 3 albums with vocals.

"I don't know any more than you do," Slash says of Chinese Democracy. "There's only a couple of songs with vocals on it -- I know that for a fact. But it will come out one of these days.""

We follow GN'R pretty closely, I'd say..... and that "fact" is a lot more than any of us know.

The one thing that makes me think Slash is right would be the Rolling Stone article from a few years back. Axl played the tracks for the writer, but the vocals for those tracks hadn't been recorded yet. So that is one piece of evidence suggesting GN'R/Axl are taking a long time with the vocals.

But if that's the most negative rip Slash can come up with though, I'm guessing he really is out of the loop. As far as Axl is concerned, I'd prefer for him to get the vocals right rather than rush things because the album has taken so long. It's already been eleven years; there's no reason to sacrifice quality to get the album out a few months earlier.

Does anyone have a transcript of the "dive in and find the monkey" (?!) fax referenced in this article? I'd never heard anything about it before, especially the part where Axl promises to have Chinese Democracy completed.

Slash wishes ::)

God I'm so fucking sick of Slash & Duff talking shit about Axl for a bit of cheap publicity. I like Velvet Revolver, I really do, they're a good band so why the fuck do they feel the need to do this? They're not in GN'R and they don't know shit about what Axl's doing.

Ok, you're gonna have to forgive me for this, I don't remember all the facts, but last summer Axl went into some LA club and played some tracks from Democracy on CD, right? Don't you think we'd have heard more about it if the vocals weren't even on the damn songs? There's just no fucking way that Axl hasn't done the vocals yet, it's impossible. And HOW would Slash know?!

Tommy Stintson said the album was nearly complete. No vocals isn't nearly complete.

AND.....what about that clip that you can download from (I think) Newgnr.com, the radio advert used to publicise the 2002 tour? That included clips of the new songs, from the studio, and OH YEAH - THEY HAD FUCKING VOCALS.  :rant: :rant: :rant:

axl played tracks!

didnt mention either way about vocals

maybe it was just instrumental tracks, which is why axl wasnt worried about playing them and getting them ripped off

that advert may be clippings of one song, slash said 2

jus cause we've heard 4 or 5 new songs doesnt mean he's actually finished recording them

this doesnt mean axl doesnt have the songs finished, he just hasnt recorded them

slash probably knows people still in axl's camp and im sure the convo has came up

slash has nothing to gain from lying about this

First off all there's Brian may's 3 albums of finished songs with Axl's  "OUTRAGEOUS" vocals see newgnr for the radio innerviews to sownload). Then there's Moby saying it took ages to coax Axl to sing as he fe;lt he was being pushed to fast. There's the Boston promo songs, recorded no doubt years after and with different players and producers to Oh My God.

I mean, HELLO?! I imagine Slash really believes what he says and may have a good source, but we probably all know infinitely more about what HAS been said about GnR the past years. I bet he has no idea Brian May went near it.


I think it's funny in this interview how Matt tries too hard to come across as harcore as Slash, Duff and Weiland.It may be true that he snorted half of Columbia, but he seems so anxious to be remembered as a bad boy like the others not just 'the drummer'.

yes,slash know that,as i know!
slash i like you,but slash fuck you

Sounds like Slash is getting really sick about being asked about the old GNR and Axl, etc...sounds like a very annoyed and off the cuff response to me...he had to know that the media would ask him that kind of crap once VR's album came out though...ah, just another mad, mad day on the road....

Yeah, because Rolling Stone wouldnt have run the VR feature if Slash and Duff didnt make those comments... ::)  I also didnt know that qualified as "talking shit," but leave it to fans such as yourself.


I dont think weve heard anything about the songs as it is, so what difference would it make?


Doug Goldstein said the same thing in 2000...


Ive never seen or heard anything that definitively identifies those clips as studio ones...

Slash is probably wrong about it...but hes hardly "talking shit" and if he is wrong we should see the album soon.  If not, then maybe he wasnt far off...

Well
1)Axl didnt have a problem laying down vocals for Oh My God when he wanted 2

2) his voice sounde amazing on the new songs(and old) live

so why wouldnt there be vocals on more than a couple of songs....
it doesnt make any sense... he  has the money to be in the best studios and have all the time he wants... its bullshit

not to mention we've known lyrics to the songs he played live
and song titles to a lot of the other songs.... so its not like he's having writers block and cant write words.

slash is a loser

I'm sure Slash knows less about the level of completion of CD than the average fan does  ::)

You've never seen or heard anything to indentify those clips as studio ones? Ever tried listening to them?

Did I say Rolling Stone wouldn't feature VR without the Guns references? It's the Guns references that are making most of the headlines though ('Slash has no Axl to grind, etc, etc...'), and it seems to me that Slash & Duff are constantly putting Axl down to look good.

I do consider going on Howard Stern and giggling like a bitchy schoolgirl about Axl's appearance to be 'talking shit'. I consider talking about someone else's album, that you have fuck all to do with, and we know isn't true to be 'talking shit'.

I don't know what the truth is, but

Robin left because he was tired to work on instrumentals as they didn't have complete songs (with vocals)

Doug Goldstein said in 2000 that the album is 99% musically done, 50% vocals done

Josh Freese left 'cause he thought the album was ready to be released, but it didn't happen

Axl doesn't say anything as usual

Slash's source must either be the Velvet Rope forum or Ivan from Argentina  :hihi:

I don't even need to check this nonsense to know it's false

Actually no:

''As far as I can tell,'' says GnR's manager Doug Goldstein, ''we are now 99% musically done and 80% vocals done. (RS 01/2000 (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=30))

80% vocals done four years ago. Even if Axl re-recorded some of his parts, I just can't believe there are only two complete tracks on the album right now. Wasn't the album in the mixing process last year in July (according to Tommy) -- we never knew when it was complete, if it ever was? Usually the vocals are already done when a record enters the mixing process right?

I'd say that this is most likely the case.

Maybe Slash is referring to two songs that he knew of having completed vocals back when he was still in the band.

Man, most of you Axl worshippers are paranoid.

I figured that much... :yes:

You mean three 4-second clips?  No, I wouldnt call that definitive proof that theyre studio clips...Could just as well be clean studioboard recordings.


You implied that Slash and Duff make these comments (answers to questions that theyre asked) in order to get publicity...well, the VR article will run regardless - so thats out.  Unless you think theyre doing it to provide message board fodder and consider that publicity...


First off, no, its not the Gnus stuff making headlines.  Youve named one tiny newpaper article that has such a headline.  I can give you dozens more that dont.  So ease up with the hyperbole there...

As for putting him down, thats your own sensitivity.  Slash said, probably wrongly, that Axl only has a couple of vocal tracks.  You have to be really sensitive to interpret that as a put-down.  If he is wrong, its likely that it was said out of pure error rather than an effort to put him down.  


Then youre as oversensitive as I suspected.  Forget that Slash and Duff intentionally avoided commenting on his appearence (and always have), laughing at a comment is "talking shit".  If it aws Slash and Duffs intention to put Axl down, and its certainly no difficult feat, they could easily do so.  But when youre example of their bullying is laughing at others comments and answering questions that theyre asked concerning that album honestly (if not erroneously), its safe to say your oversensitivity to the subject is bizarre.

Im sure you were just as outraged when Axl told the others to suck his dick, said Slash was in his ass, made comments about their albums, called Slash a liar, etc.  : ok:

And we dont know anything about this album and its level of completion.  Weve heard nothing.  Believe those second-long clips are studio ones if it makes you feel better, but theres no certainty there.  The album is supposedly almost done - just like it was 4 years ago.  So that says it all about what "we" know about this album.

Its no secret Axl took his time with the vocals. He has said many times that in order for him to sing on a track the music has to be at a certain level. That level was achieved when the band solidified. The tracks and most of the albums are completed. If anyone thinks otherwise they are dumb. SLash is about 3 - 4 yrs late with his info.

Theres not 1 show on the tour that Axl sounds as good as that. Including the soundboards.

Why cant they simple say no comment and be persistent about it? I understand they are asked in every interview about GNR and Axl but why do they have to talk about it. I dont care if they talk about old GNR and what they did, but when the questions come up about Axl's appearance, musical direction, album and band they should simply say No Comment. If they said that every interview, peopel would stop asking. Or if they took Sorum over to the side one day and said stop being a lil pussy and running your mouth every second liek you were the one who helped built the band then maybe they wouldnt have a spokesperson to say what they wanna say in SOrum.

Or they can do something {which I personally dont like} what Axl does. Have a particluar interview foward them the questions. He does this so he doesnt talk about the old members.


Almost every VR article I have read mentionsa not just old guns but new guns. Its pathetic.

And Sorum should shut the fuck up. He acts like he was a pivotal member of GNR. Im not saying hes not good but he has no right to say one word. He has no class.

Although Slash changes his tune from time to time and basically lets SOrum do the talking atleast he doesnt run his mouth like SOrum does. If any has the right to run his mouth is SLash. Sorum should shut the fuck up.

LOL, isnt it funny how Slash is always saying how hes not interested in new gnr and how he doesnt give two shits about them, and doesnt know anything about it, etc,etc
/ Yet he knows that they have only a handful of vocal tracks down...and ladies and gentlemen...HE KNOWS IT FOR A FACT.

Slash give it a rest and go work on your followup.

IMO, the bottom line is that Slash has no way of knowing "for a fact" how many tracks have vocals recorded over them.

He speculate as much as he wants based off gossip he's heard.  It's his right.  But, being that he hasn't spoken to Axl Rose since 1996, and by all accounts isn't friendly with any new members of the band, I don't see how he could know with any reasonable degree of certainty.

Ali

Hmmm...



 ???

Your glaring hypocrisy aside, Sorum didnt even say anything really derogatory about Axl, other than hes screwing Matt out of royalties, which gives a little insight as to why Matt doesnt go out of his way to be flattering.


 :confused:

Sorum is a grown man who was a member of Guns N' Roses for six or seven years...nobodys "letting" him talk.

Those clips from the Boston promo are defiantly studio clips. You can tell just from the opening riff to Chinese Democracy, it sounds nothing like the way it sounds live. And the other way you can tell is by Axl's vocals, he isnt singing the same way he sings live now.

First off, I said that whole class thing because I think its funny when people on the boards bring it up. So I decided to take part in that Class ethics and show how stupid it is.

And I stand by what I said in those quotes 100%. Its fukin RNR. So when Axl wants to disuss the past and his former friends and he says what he says...that rnr...not always bringing it up in a pussy way like sorum does or the way Slash and company always act like they are higher than Axl. Its cool if you think you are...then say it straight up dont beat around the bush.

Sorum didnt say anything that bad in the RS interview but its that he has said shit in the past and hes always saying something. Im not asking nayone to kiss Axls ass. All Im asking is to read a VR interview not a what do you think of Axl and GNr interview.

Booker do you have a life? Im sure I could go back to your posts and show your contradictions. But I dont because who the fuck cares. Its the fukin summer. Go out and get laid.

 :rofl:

Sure you did...


You sound very confused...So basically, its okay for Axl to insult past members, but anyone insulting Axl should "shut the fuck up".  Gotcha.


Well, if thats all youre asking, you should read every sentence other than the one or two dedicated to Axl/GNR.


Im sure you could too... : ok:  

Thanks for the concern, but theres no need to worry...Im just fine.  Doing a search for your laughable contradictions takes seconds, actually.  Like this for example, from a few days ago...


 :hihi:

Only took me 45 seconds  : ok:

Booker, do you have some sort of inferiority complex, enjoy arguing with anyone about anything, or just have a love of manipulating facts to make yourself look good?

I never said Slash saying that only 2 songs were complete was a put down. I said he was stating 'facts' about a band he has nothing to do with.

Laughing at someone's appearance? Not a putdown, just totally pathetic for someone pushing 40.

I'm tired of Slash and Duff's sniggery little comments about Axl in every interview. It's pathetic. If Axl comes out with C.D., and does tons of interviews putting down VR, I'll feel the same.

What Slash & Duff seem to have forgotten is that most Velvet fans are Guns fans, and a lot of those are Axl fans too. By doing this in interviews constantly, they're pretty much asking their fans to choose. I agree with Younggunner, maybe if questions on GNR were met with a 'no comment' - consistently - then Velvet Revolver could finally be recognised for being Velvet Revolver.

And if you can't tell that those clips are studio cuts, you need to pull your head out of your ass.  :drool:

Like usual you took a topic and threw it on the person who posts something you dont like. What else is new?...

No, I said they should say it directly instead of sugar coating it. If there gonna say something, say it...instead of saying well ya know, bla bla bla....

The temptations got me.. what can I say???
I was gonna take some time off but I have gotten a GNr rejuventation over the past few days. So Im excited to talk about GNR again. SOrry to rain on your parade.

Keep up the good work soldier, Im off to class....catch you latas

Instead of worrying about my contradictions...go analzye Slashs' contradictions...
Slash is always saying how hes not interested in new gnr and how he doesnt give two shits about them, and doesnt know anything about it, etc,etc
/ Yet he knows that they have only a handful of vocal tracks down...and ladies and gentlemen...HE KNOWS IT FOR A FACT.

younggunner/BF: your last posts don't bring anything to the thread. Who cares if younggunner said he would leave and then came back? It has nothing to do with the topic. You can talk about that in PMs if that's really important to you, or there's still The Jungle section for Off-Topic threads. Thanx. :peace:

my initial response to him was all on topic..then as usual Booker made it a non topic debate....

Dude, you're so wrong. Any musician (or someone who really have a good ear) can tell you the difference. Yes, theres certainty there. It's studio clips. The Finck's intro in Chinese Democracy sounds different than any other live version. It's not about audio quality between soundboard source and bootleg source, it's the fuckin' guitar sound as the whole. Axl sounds way better in those clips too. Even Madagascar and The Blues sound different.
I don't want to discuss about Slash being a liar, I guess he's sources couldn't hear the final CD mix and only heard some demos without vocals. I don't label him as a liar. But claim that is no proof that this clip is studio clips is far away from the truth. Try to listen to Live Era and AFD and come back here telling you can't notice the difference between the live ones and the studio ones!  : ok:

For all these slash fans that think its ok that slash says all this bullshit about Axl, I don?t want to hear any of you crying when Axl starting talking negatively about slash and duff.

 If there's one thing I've learned reading this board is to never underestimate the utter stupidity of the die-hard Axl worshiper. So now you're all crying because Slash says he knows that only a couple songs have vocal completed. As if any of you ass-clowns knows whether it's true or not. Then you take those innocuous little comments to twist them to fit your ill-informed opinions of Slash, such as pointing out that this "proves" what a liar Slash is.
 
 Well if Slash says there's only a few songs with vocals, & says he knows it for a fact, that's good enough for me. He's in the business, he knows people noone here would know, what does he gain by lying? I'll take his word any day over you people, & you too, Mysteron. You would post the moon is made of green cheese if that's what "Managament" told you.

It's pretty fun how slash says that he is over the GN'R thing but he can't stop talking about GN'R. All he has to do is tell the Interviewer that he will not answer any GN'R ?. And I really doubt that he has a fucking clue as to what Axl has and doen't have.

lets see, slash says good luck, guns was great at one time, and the obvious, CD isn't near being done.


axl says , suck  my dick, your a liar, your an albotross, your albums suck, ect ect ect/////who is badmouthing who?


wow, some of you are just blind.

Yeah right! The "when" Axl starts talking badly about the other guys... :hihi:
Please! That's all that comes out of his mouth for pete's sake..LOL this is too funny

Why do you expect someone to act intelligent and civilized if he's unable to do that?

I like the 'excuse' of the most arrogant and narrow-minded people: 'Well, it's me, like it or not, I say what I think, so fuck off'. I admire Axl as a musician, he used to be my idol, but he's not for years. And it's because his personality that comes through his words and actions.

Yes, Voodochild, I meant soundboard.


I didnt say it was one or the other, but face it - the clips are merely seconds long.  Theres talking over much of them.  Theres no telling what their origins are.


Until CD is out there, there is no proof.  You can assume and speculate...you might possibly be right.  But you certainly cant prove anything.

There is no possiblity of being wrong, those are defiantly studio clips. Listen to the guitar at the beginning of Chinese Democracy, theres no talking there, and it sounds like its in the studio, and it sounds totally different than the guitar live. Listen to the studio clip and then listen to it live, totally different. If you cant tell the difference between a live and studio track then you have problems.

Get your ears checked.

What it all comes down to is it KILLS you axl-worshiping nitwits to see Slash & co do well without Axl. It really, really bothers you, don't it?

Hip Hip Hurray! You "proved" there's actually :30 worth of studio recorded material. Chinese Democracy Starts Now!

But we can prove it's not live, so it only can be studio. ;)

Come on people,  Slash is talkin about the songs GnR played live.  That is the only new material that Slash or anyone for that matter "knows for a fact" has vocals. Im pretty sure thats all he meant.  Dont read into it so much, and stop bickering.

Hey Im new here,  Im just excited that there is so much happening that is GnR related.  I think we'll be hearing Axls vocals pretty soon.

out  :peace:

After going back a reading the interview I think that is what he ment to RumJungle, but didn't GN'R have like 12 songs done when Slash was still in the band such as This is Love . I think I remember reading that some were.Any waywelcome to the board RumJungle : ok:

You know that Axl couldn't put like only 10s vocals in each track just to make a radio promo, right?  :rant:

I doubt it. Why do you think that those were the only songs they were playing live. Probably b/c they were a few of the songs that were done being recorded with instruments AND vocals.

Of coarse it?s good enough for you what ever slash says, because eventho slash is proven liar, time and time again certain fans will believe anything he says.  Even this new lie that Axl only has two songs done with vocals.   Its pretty funny considering like I said Brian May already said in 2000 that Axl had 2 or 3 albums done with vocals, plus Axl played those songs for that night club with vocals, plus beta, her son and the band members wives have all heard completed songs with vocals.  So slash who is not even in the band knows more than these people that have heard songs with vocals on them? Now that is stupid.  So you are going to take the word of a proven liar over people that have heard the material and not just taking yet another stab at Axl?  As for us twisting anything, how are we twisting anything slash says to make him out to be a liar? He does that all by himself, just look at his contradictory comments and the bullshit he makes up.

Btw assclown? Can't you make a point with out calling someone a name?

Realllly?j/k.

My point was he was getting all hot & bothered to "prove" something that was pretty meaningless.

I wasnt getting all hot and bothered. I was just stating how it was so easy to tell that those are studio clips.

^

yeah but if axl took a shot at last in an interview like this, there would be a thread with 20 pages on it calling axl an asshole and all of that

Just like when he talked about how duff used to have panic attacks, axl got bashed left and right on this board for that comment.  

Hey Dave, let's start a character assassination on Brian May, he made those comments 4 years ago, where's the proof? He must be a fucking lying scumbag because surely if it was ready 4 years ago it would of been out by now right?

^^

Just another sunday and crash diet were never offical released so does that mean those tracks do not have vocals?   :rofl:

The interviewer asked axl outright if oh my god was the only song with vocals and here is what brian may said.


MAH: Now this is really interesting because there has been so much speculation about this new album, 'Chinese Democracy' (potentially it's called) and there are many, many people who've spoken to journalists, who've played with Axl over a number of years now, who have laid claims recently that the only one track that Axl has ever laid down a vocal part for is 'Oh My God' but you're saying that there are more vocal parts then?


BM: Oh yeah, there's a whole album of vocal parts. In fact, there's two albums worth that they've got there, at least. They played me everything. Axl actually sat down and made me listen to everything (laughs) and there's some wonderful stuff there

Alright Dave, you've proved that Brian May said that, but that's all you've proven. Now prove all those tracks really do exist. You can't.

Why don't you prove they don't exist?

Are you gonna quote Slash?  :hihi:



/jarmo

Thats a good one Jarmo!!!  : ok:

Looks like he got you there providman!!

 ::)

Fucks sake

How would Slash know?

Thats absurd. Slash should talk less about Axl and more about his new band.

Does it mean that there are complete songs? It means only recorded vocal ideas, but no word if there is music with vocals, or only vocal ideas.  ???

I don't think so. You can't "prove" a negative. I've had this argument before, just like I can't "prove" that bigfoot doesn't exist. I'll give you another example. If I were to believe that giant green lizard people exist at the center of the earth, & you disagreed, how could you prove it that they don't?

You can prove a negative wrong. If you can prove that the songs exist, then you can prove if songs dont exist. Its just that in this situation you cant because they do infact exist.

Providman is every bit as big a Slash nut swinger as any of his alleged Axllites. He's full of shit and bitterness...it is consistent and sad to read. That being said, I guess Axl didn't play David Wild from Rolling Stone 12 songs (only one of which was an instrumental-Oklahoma) in Dec 99? Right providman, David Wild lied as well? Just made up shit....the whole Rolling Stone article was a lie. In any case, whether or not Axl has recorded 6 songs with vocals or 60...what good does it do us? We can't hear them and maybe never will. He has released one original studio song in 13 years. The hard cold facts are downright ugly.  ;D

Thank God!!! I thought only I believed that! ;D
Anyway, their leader, K'grqing J'zz'yrrex, came to me in a dream and told me that Axl took a trip to the Holy Core on the submarine studio and played "General" and "Leave Me Alone".  They had vocals, but not in English.  The recorded portions are in Esperanto, for Axl wants hormony between all nations, men, and lizard people.

Seriously, this argument is moot.  There's what appears to be a great deal of evidence that Slash is wrong, but he would most likely have better contacts in the biz than ANY of us.
Who the fuck knows?

/Mike

You're right. If proof exists that something exisits, then you can prove a negative wrong, in that case. However, no proof exists that Axl has 3-4 albums with vocals complete, & just because Brian May said so 4 years ago isn't proof, just like Slash saying there's only a couple of songs with vocals isn't proof of anything, either.
Choosing to belive something someone said is not necessarily proof, pro or con, of anything.

So now you people are going back 5 years to make your idiotic points?

You Axl people are pretty funny calling other who don't share your views bitter. You all seem so angry all the time. So much misdierected anger. Tell me madagas, does it kill you too that VR is really doing well while Axl just keeps floundering?

True, but I think I'm gonna keep siding with the fact that Axl has vocal tracks on a lot of songs, not necessarily 2 albums worth, because everyone who has heard them say that there is vocals recorded. Slash is one of the only people who say there isnt, and he has nothing to do with that band, so I think its safe to say that there is vocal tracks recorded on most, if not all, songs they have chosen to record.

It's not meaningless. He was just telling to Booker how the "studioclips" is, in fact, studio sourced. Didn't saw any mention to CD being finished...
BTW, those studioclips are amazing and sounded fantastic. It means to me that the album can be awesome and it's not possible at all that Axl could have only those songs with vocals. He just took those songs that he will not release as singles to introduce a little bit of the new sound back in 2001. It might be a total different sound right now, but he wouldn't play any more new songs if the album was yet to be released. It means that he has no more finished songs? No fucking way!!  :no:
This RS article is edited. They didn't put all the things Slash said. Maybe he said something like "There's only a couple of songs with vocals on it but it might be a lot more-- I know that for a fact. But it will come out one of these days." and the guy only put what he wanted.
So, I guess Slash isn't a liar and Axl has a lot of finished tracks and some waiting to the mix.

zzzzzzzz.... Providman, read my post again, I said nothing positive about Axl. As for Contraband, let's just say it has already been sold to my local used cd store. Listened to it, absorbed it, got bored with it, and sold it. As for Axl, he's done nothing so I won't judge what I have not heard. I will say at least Slash does something. Better to try and be completely average, than to not try at all. As Bill the Butcher would say about you (Providman) and Contraband..."you are neither hot nor cold. Thus, I will spew you out of my mouth." The only known record I care about this year comes out next week.....Wilco "A Ghost Is Born"... ;D

How is it not proof? Like I said, Brian May, Beta, her son, that guy from the RS interview, the people that heard the songs he played for the night club, the wives of the band members, all heard more than two songs with vocals on them. So all these people are lying and only slash is telling the truth?

That is a good one. Now I think I have heard it all.

As for us going back 5 years ago to prove a point, the point is, if 5 years ago he had vocals on all those tracks, that means he has even more vocals done since its many years later. Its simple logic, but slash fans dont use simple logic because it would just  make too much sense.

Well VR's album was released without any vocals,just  Scott's singing

In my opinion

Slash is probably just saying what he has heard, im sure he is trying to get as much information as he can as to what Axl is up to with the album (there is a reason why he is appearing on BTM with Adler, who has repeatedly sued Axl and Guns to try and get more money, he obviously cant let go. Duff obviously has, refusing to be on BTM and saying in that KNACC interview that hes not really interested). People are probably feeding Slash shit to keep him happy and he is regurgitating that shit to reporters which is getting to us! i mean Axl wouldnt even let him in to one of his gigs i dont think he is going to let Slash or any of the ex members know what is going on! Its got to be rumors, like everything with GnR these days.

As for Axl having limited vocal tracks done, its obviously crap, granted vocals are the last thing to be added as your putting together a song, but there have been numerous reports from numerous people that he has got vocals recorded and you cannot go this long without laying down a vocal track, even Axl on his own timescale would have gotten pissed off!!!! People seem to be fogetting that we dont actually know how many songs Axl has for the album or even albums (it better be bloody albums). He could have loads of songs recorded! There is no way the record company would let him get away without putting vocals on tracks. At least some of the albums are done, Axl is most probably mixing together the final one or in the worst case scenario going over all the stuff that has been recorded by other producers, messing it all up until he is 100% happy with what he is hearing, which as we know could take bloody ages.

The boston promos, they soundlike studio clips to me (drums are way to clean). If they were cleaned up soundboards they would have had to have been thrown together in a hurry, and i dont know where and when Axl would have approved them, they would have been taken from the 2002 N American tour yeah (best soundboard, only something like 7 of them in the world), which started on Nov 8th now if your gonna advertise for a show that takes place on 2nd December, you start advertising weeks in advance. Maybe someone can tell me when the advertising first aired, i dont know cos i live in the UK? What im trying to say is, it seems highly unlikely that Axl or management would suddenly go midtour, 'oh lets advertise for boston with some of the new songs, hmmm shall we get the finished studio cuts or polish up some soundboards, oh wait not much time to do that we only have 20 or so days to sort something out. We will have to get someone to cut it together, polish up the tracks, to much hassle, lets just use the studio tracks' and there is the fact that Axl didnt exactly sound anything like he does on those advertisments at the begining of the 2002 tour, he was sounding awsome towards the end: Pittsburgh soundboard anyone?

Its to much hassle to throw something together like that in such a small space of time, we all know how much of a perfectionist Axl is, he would have had to approve it, hence more time taken.

What i want to know is why we are only being treated to these so called B-Sides. What about the real stuff, this amazing stuff that everyone says Axl has locked away, and what about these legalites that need sorting. Something is stopping Axl putting out the album, maybe he cant put them out so is stuck sitting around tinckering with the tracks waiting for whatever the situation is to be resolved!

Jonx

Why do people who think differently have to be "ass clowns" and "idiots". I don't remember Slash "fans" being bashed/name called like that on that board. You can like whoever you like in the band, you can hate Slash, you can hate Axl, who the fuck cares. Just don't call others ass clowns because they think differently.


And yes there is proof, unless you want to call Brian May a liar. He's said in the past that he has heard at least one album worth of material with vocals. If I'm not mistaken, there's an audio of that interview on newgnr.com (it might be a different interview though).

Thanks Timothy.  I think any songs written while slash was still in the band are probable long gone by now.  But you never know.  

out  :peace:

Providman is a moron -

Brian May- a legend -  has actually been in the studio with Axl and worked on the new CD.

Slash- a has been- has not been anywhere near the project since the day he realized he wasnt good enough for guns n roses and he left.  

Slash should keep his mouth shut, so should providman -

Maybe providman is Slash

does anyone know where i can download that boston promo... i cant find it on limewire

YG:  Almost every VR article I have read mentions not just old guns but new guns. Its pathetic.

----- thats a good point.  Sure talk about the old band - the breakup, etc.  But why talk about the new band, the material, Axl's appearance even.  

YG:  Sorum should shut the fuck up. He acts like he was a pivotal member of GNR. Im not saying hes not good but he has no right to say one word. He has no class.

-----Axl's done everything he can to screw him out of royalties.  Why doesn't he elaborate on this.  Thats a hell of accusation to make off the cuff.  Tell it to the judge, Matt.  Perhaps getting to fuck 18 year old girls everyday just because he was in GN'R makes up for it?

Although Slash changes his tune from time to time and basically lets SOrum do the talking atleast he doesnt run his mouth like SOrum does. If any has the right to run his mouth is SLash. Sorum should shut the fuck up.....

------Amen to that. Yep, that Matt - he's got huge balls  :hihi:

YG:  Slash sys he doesn't know anything about it, etc,etc-  Yet he knows that they have only a handful of vocal tracks down...and ladies and gentlemen...HE KNOWS IT FOR A FACT.

-------That's what I totally don't get.  Slash said he knows it for a fact - He made a point of stating it as fact.  I don't want to hear that  "well, he musta meant something else..." or "he could be mistaken".. or "he might just be saying what he's heard.  He is saying that IT IS A FACT.  How the fuck does he know this FOR FACT.  Thats Slash for ya - like I have said before - he needs to learn to express himself better 'all things considered'.   :hihi:


YG:  When Axl wants to disuss the past and his former friends and he says what he says...that rnr...not always bringing it up in a pussy way like sorum does or the way Slash and company always act like they are higher than Axl.   Its cool if you think you are...then say it straight up dont beat around the bush..... They should say it directly instead of sugar coating it.  If they're gonna say something, say it...instead of saying well ya know, bla bla bla....


------About Axl saying Slash and Duff can suck his dick; Slash is a liar;  Matt is an albatross - thats honesty for ya.  There is no pussyfooting around.  He says how he feels and YES there is something about that to be respected.  Statements such as the one Slash made just last week in the New York Post where he says he doesn't want to blame Axl - that Axl seems to be the scapegoat for everything... where he says he takes some of the blame but then turns around in his comments immediately and makes Axl the scapegoat with these words: "there is no one else to blame but Axl".[/u]  Now thats pussyfooting.

Why does he talk like this?  Can't he say that he had musical differences which he and Axl could not agree on so he didn't see any reason to stay.

Remeber what Axl said in the GN'R obline statement from August of 2002   "Slash chose not to be here over control issues. Now people can say 'Well Axl, you're after control of the band too.' You're damn skippy. That's right. I am the one held responsible since day one."
------------------------------
Dave posted Brian May's quote:  "Oh yeah, there's a whole album of vocal parts. In fact, there's two albums worth that they've got there, at least. They played me everything. Axl actually sat down and made me listen to everything (laughs) and there's some wonderful stuff there"

Providman:  Now prove all those tracks really do exist.  You can't.
Jarmo:  Why don't you prove they don't exist?  Are you gonna quote Slash?

thats pretty funny - but oh so true - Thing is we there are far more things that support the theory that the album exists (yes - with vocals) than there is to the contrary.  The most oft cited arguement to the contrary being that it has not been released.  Just because it has yet to be released does not prove it doesn't exist.  I'd go with the fact that its existense has been reported by people who have worked on it in the studio, people that have heard it, the band members, and the record company and management, and Axl's hope to announce a release date soon, along with having heard live with my own ears songs that they wrote, as supporting my belief that it does indeed exist.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bottm Line:  As for Slash's knowing for fact -  if he does not know this for fact - then he is misrepresenting what he knows and stating something that is untrue (aka: lying).

Man.this is getting ugly. Look, it probaly is just Slash giving a rather 'colored' response to another GNR related question. Maybe Slash does want to move on, but as 1 part of the 2 main stars of GNR, the media never will let him....I still doubt he's right on this, but is an offhanded comment worth this much acrimony?

Jonx - The boston promo was aired before the NA Tour starts. It reminds me how could The Blues has the ending solo in that promo before they played this part live? Of course, assuming it's soundboard and Booker is right.
So, to me it's more than enough proof.  ;)

You know it has always been Axl's thing to talk shit and take names. Since when did Slash and Duff start acting like they were Axl anyway? They always seemed to play the role of the victims. Poor Slash and poor Duff....finally freed from Axl's evil Tyranny.

But whats this? Could it be that these two maybe aren't the innocent party after all? They sure seem to like talking a lot of shit don't they?

Man, I always had some respect for these two, because they played it cool, instead of the in your face go fuck yourself persona that Axl embodies. But they are all the same. Its just that Axl is better at it, because its just who he is. He is and always has been that which his innitials represent (W.A.R.). He's intense, and he is volatile. But Slash and Duff, are now doin the same thing, which seems odd. The only difference is, when Axl does it, inside I say "fuck yea!"...but when these two do it, I say "shut the fuck up."

I do hope Slash and Duff are enjoying there time in the limelight with this Velvet Revolver shindig. I do love rock music, and enjoy it for what it is. I think its funny that the best thing they did as a band is the cover to Pink Floyds "Money." It goes to show that Slash is at his best when he has a good song to do his thing with. Too bad Contraband doesn't have that special something that Money eluded too. Axl gave Slash kind of what Money did. A great canvas to work with. Unlike what he has obviously been given with these Contraband tracks.

This all makes me crazy for CD to be released so I can see Slash and Duff try to talk shit about that. And Axl can finally rest his foot right the fuck up their ass firmly right where it belongs.

BM  I have been saying for years that slash and duff are not so innocent.

As for this vocal thing again.

Now, if Axl really does not want the songs to leak, maybe he has the vocal tracks on another DAT tape incase the songs do leak they have no vocals, but the lyrics and vocals ARE done since tommy said Axls singing is great on the album and the vocals are very deep.

So if there are no vocals done then how would tommy  know this?

You can get the Boston promo at www.newgnr.com in the downloads section, or whatever its called over there.

Oh okay. So it's okay if Axl talks shit, because he is better at it? Because "it's his thing"? :rofl:

Funny.

All he is saying is that Axl has always been that way, so its nothing new. Slash has now started acting like that, so its like he is trying to change to get more publicity.

lets just say that those who believe Slash wouldn't knowingly make a false statement, are now bound by what Slash "knows for fact"

so... (according to what Slash "knows for fact") there are vocals on only a couple of tracks - as of June 16, 2004.

time will tell
and there won't be any denying when the time comes

I know - Duff and Slash have always been portrayed as the victims, but it is becoming increasingly obvious that there are no saints connected with GNR.

U have to say there all as bad as each other - while i like to hear Slash's views on GNR if he is just going to bad mouth Axl  then maybe he should just stick to Velvet Revolver.

why do some people here take what slash or matt say so personally?

you dont know them. you dont know axl. who are you to judge any of them so harshly? do you have no faults of your own that all you can do is criticize people you don't know (not only that, but criticize people who created music that you love)? what have they done to offend you so personally?

this thread is pathetic and it is nearly impossible to have a conversation with a rational, level-headed person on this board without some crazy person jumping in and causing controversy. a lot of you need to stop whining like a bunch of school girls over spilled milk. to an oustide observer you would be making a fool of yourself.

try going to this forum instead:

www.buymeadiaper.com

The most intelligent thing said in this whole thread  :yes:

this is stupid. your logic doesnt make sense. if he didn't say "for fact", would it make any difference? no. you'd still be blaming him for saying "axl only has vocals on a couple tracks". the "for fact" part is implied in that sentence regardless of whether he states it or not. the point is, its what HE believes. a person can be wrong without being a LIAR.

for example:

axl said the album would be out a couple years ago, did he not? thus, he lied, right?

what about all the other band members who said they would be releasing the album at different points in time? were they liars, or did they believe something that wasnt true because they didn't have the appropriate facts necessary to come to the correct conclusion.

and dont turn this into a game of symantics, because there have been times when they have said it WILL be out at some point, without saying "hopefully" or "maybe".

Point is, i'm just trying to show how your logic makes no sense. they are not liars just as you cannot claim slash to be a "liar" because of his statement.

Exactly. Legalities, people keep saying that Axl is clearing up the legalities, something is holding back the album stopping Axl putting it out. Could it be Slash!

Alright madagas. we all got our insults in & as usual the point got lost somewhere in between. I too can't wait for AGIB(although I've been listening to it for the past 2-3 months on wilcoworld.net). I think Wilco is probably the best band out there right now. Did you see them on Letterman last night? They played Hummingbird(it was 'f'in awsome)

I missed Letterman, fell asleep, woke up at 1:05 pissed! Have not heard the record, chose not to download it and am getting very anxious. The reviews sound great. Tweedy is my boy. As for the topic at hand, Axl says shit about Slash, Slash says shit back....stereotypical  spoiled rock star bull shit. Who cares? This has been done so many times before. Waters vs Gilmour.....Jagger vs. Richards in the 80's etc etc etc. They all sound like idiots to me. Drivel.

Slash is a has-been? Guy, some people will really love you this board!

You surely like Finck's playing and it explains a lot of things.  :yes:

Exactly. I don't know why people are so sensititive to automatically call him a liar, as if he knows the truth and is denying that Axl has more vocal recordings. WHY would he lie about it? What would the point be? I would hardly call this "talking shit" either, but of course, as always, people are making him out to be the bad guy and trying to defend Axl - over nothing. I don't think Slash meant that to talk shit.

Buddha_Master said they (Slash, Duff, and Matt) like to play the role of victims - but Axl doesn't? He does, he just has childish ways of "defending" himself, such as throwing temper tantrums and saying things like "suck my dick" and blaming everyone but himself.

He did not want to do that or put himself through the rigors of taking the band to that level even if he was capable of writing it. Was he capable of doing it? Absolutely 100%. I think that some of the riffs that were coming out of him were the meanest, most contemporary, bluesiest, rocking thing since Aerosmith?s Rocks. The 2000 version of Aerosmith Rocks or the 1996 Aerosmith Rocks by the time we would have put it out
It?s not something I would want to approach (without Slash) because at the time there was only one person that I knew who could do certain riffs that way.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking anything away from the alumni in regard to their prior performances on record or touring to support the albums.

I guess you forgot to mention all that.


As for the whole topic. Ive said this a million times. Both Axl and Slash are at fault for GNRs breakup. They both were too stubborn with each other....now fast foward to what we have today....

Slash can talk about old GNR all he wants. More power to him, and he has that right to do so. But when he continuosly says shit about Axl and the new band he is a pussy. Flat out pussy.

Slash, if you think this new band is gay...say it...dont say some sugar coated shit. Say whats on your mind otherwise dont say anything. Tell you interviewer not to bring up Axl or GNr the way Axl requests in his interviews.

 And please dont go on Howard Stern and say you could give 2 shits about Axl or gnr{despite you wanting to go see them at vegas} and then a few weeks later say Oh Axl doesnt even have vocals on tracks...and state it as fact....shut the fuck up and go work on your follow up....

If you look at all of the Slash vs Axl debates we have...where do they originate from? Mostly from when Slash opens his mouth and changes his story over the years. Axl has layed low.
Slash has been arguing against himself all of these years and he is looking like an ass.

Aside from a few concert rants he has said nothing negative toward the old band. It is what it is....OVER.... something Axl has moved on from years ago and obiviously Slash and company hasnt...but whatevr....

God forbid Axl has indeed created an album close to or surpassing AFD or the Illusions....Time will tell...and as this saga has gone on... although Axl is by no means an angel, I have grown to appreciate him even more....now just release it motherfucker/....

PROVIDMAN

Let me ask; what exactly was the point you were trying to make providman?

All i saw in your posts were childish insults directed at people who thought Slash was lying or mistaken. They also said why they believed this and pointed out a couple of interviews in which the oposite was said!

Are you trying to tell us to believe anything Slash says? and take it as fact? Or are you only trying to show us that your 'love' for Slash has no boundaries?

If Slash said the world was flat, and stated it as fact would you believe him?

I know the question sounds stupid, but looking at your posts i think im right in saying your devotion to him has no limitless. Its so ironic how you come here to criticise some Axl fans, your worse, much worse. At least they 'adore' and defend Axl in a GnR forum, whilst you come to a GnR forum to attack Axl and 'defend' Slash.

What you say if a Axl fan went into the VR forums and said that VR will not make any more albums because Axl said so in an interview? You'd probably label them as a 'Axlite', Axl-lover, blind Axl wanabe etc...   Look at yourself!!! Your pathetic!!! Your exactly what you keep on complaining and whining about, a 'blind' fan who worships everything about his idol no matter if its right, wrong or whatever.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh

You people are nuts, Axl has already squashed all of them live on 2002 tour and Slash,Duff and Matt "I snorted half colombia" Sorum are squashing him too. I dont care who starts it or whatever both sides are pathetic. Stop taking this crap to personally cuz u dont know any of them and prolly never will. If it pisses you off then skip it dont whine.
They decided to take it this route instead of being reasonable so fuck'em.

Well in that case, Axl is a pussy too for saying shit - that is, when he says anything at all.

And what does Slash continuously say about the new band? You call giggling at a comment that Howard Stern said "continuously talking shit"? And saying that Axl only has a couple songs with vocals on it, is being a "pussy"? So he is now a "pussy" for making a comment about the new album. I don't see the need to resort to name calling.  


How is this at all saying that the new band is "gay"? God, he didn't say anything against anybody or even imply that he hates the new band.


And how do you know what's on his mind?

Also, I find it stupid that a lot of people say that he was lying about the VMA's (because he "had" to know about it), but now he's lying because he wouldn't know about the new band.

If Slash stated it as a fact, I don't know what exactly to believe. Of course I never knew Brian May to be a liar, but he did say that years ago.

Whatever the case, I don't know why people are making such a big deal out of nothing.

thanks ChineseBedouins!!

I can answer this. That people can't take what someone says as a fact - I believe that included Slash and Brian.


Oh, and this post isn't a childish insult - saying that because he has a different opinion he basically worships Slash? You aren't doing anything different than he is.


That is why he pointed out that you can't take someone's word as a fact.


::)


I don't believe that providman attacked Axl (correct me if I'm wrong) but yes he did attack the fans who always take everything Slash says as an insult to Axl, because when Axl does it, they think it's "cool" and okay.


Slash, by saying that he knows there are only a couple tracks with vocals on them, didn't predict the future, though he did say that the album will come out. He only made an statement which was probably based on something he heard from someone else.

But to answer your question, yes I would accuse them of being blind for believing whatever Axl said, because Axl cannot predict the future, and anyone who thinks so would be crazy.


So are you.

I honestly don't think Slash is too concerned with what recording Axl has done.  I'm sure Slash just heard his information from a music insider that knows way more than anybody here and he probably believed it based on that person's credibility.  This is similar to how we hold Jarmo and Mysteron both in a high regard and believe much of what they say.  Many people accuse Slash of being a liar; I'm not sure that's totally true.  Both Axl and Slash have said things that aren't totally accurate and a little malicious, but that's to be expected in a way.  Axl referred to their split as a painful divorce, so obviously they both have mixed emotions toward one another that will continue until they decide to resolve them...

I'm not going to waste time wading through six pages of fatuous arguments.  I will simply address the initial post.

If you read further down the article, it says "Axl fired Slash in 1996".  Okay, we all know that is untrue.  Axl did not own the GNR name in 1996 (or before any of the former members quit) andf hence did not have the power to fire Slash.  When Slash was in the band, Axl and Slash shared equal partnership, and in that case, one member cannot legally fire another.  Sorum was a replacement, not an equal partner (as Duff one said), so Axl could fire him, but he could not fire Slash.

What I am getting at is that there is one inaccuracy in this article.  So that leads me to believe that other things in the article were either taken out of context, or misrepresented by the writer.  That's the problem with interviews, they have a tendency to take someone out of context.

Hell, isn't that what Axl was ranting about on "Get in the Ring", along with numerous rants at various live shows over the years?

If Slash did make that statement in the context it was presented, I wonder how he knows this "for a fact".

Keep in mind that NOBODY here has heard any studio songs other than "Oh My God".  Just because Axl has played other songs live doesn't mean they're fully recorded in the studio.

Brian May says Axl played 15 tracks for him?  That really doesn't mean anything.  That was a few years back, and Axl could've done anything in four years.  He could've scrapped those vocals, he could've scrapped those entire songs, and knowing Axl's propensity for ultra-perfection, he probably did.

But time will certainly tell.  If the record comes out soon, we'll know Slash was incorrect.  If it doesn't, that would indicate that Slash was correct.

But I still would like to know how Slash knows this, no matter what context his statement was in.  Not because I am challenging him, but I'd be curious to know what connections he still has to Axl.

what I said is not stupid.  and my logic does make sense.  His saying he knows for fact makes all the difference.  if he said he heard that Axl has vocals on only a few tracks - then so be it.  I wouldn't doubt that he heard that.  We've heard that, too.  The 'for fact' is not implied.  He states "I know this for a fact."  If he did not say it, it would not be implied.  If its what he believes, then saying you 'think' or 'believe' is not the same as saying "I know for a fact".  

I did not say his claim to "know for fact" is a lie.  
I said IF he said that without indeed actually knowing for fact, then he was misrepresenting what he knew.  

Misrepresenting that you know something to be fact, when you in fact DO NOT KNOW IT FOR FACT is lying.  IF this is the case with Slash's statment - then he is lying.  


Stating that you know about something that in the present exists in a certain state - stating that you know for fact about the state of those matters - if you do not KNOW FOR FACT about them is lying - plain and simple.

If Slash said that he "knows for a fact" that there are "only a couple of songs with vocals on it" and he really doesn't know that for fact - that is knowingly making a false statement (lying).

Oh wait.. you're going to say its not knowlingly making a false statement if that is what he thought was true when he said it.  But I'm gonna be quick to tell you that Slash is the one who went out of his way to add that he KNOWS THIS FOR A FACT and regardless of how much drugs or alcohol Slash has abused over the years and how many brain cells he may have killed - he knows the difference between saying "I think"/"I believe" and saying "I know this for a fact".

As far as semantics... lets get this out of the way...

Purely hypothetical (example)

June 30, 2004:  The label and GN'R agree on a release date for the album (having been mixed, mastered, etc... done.  legal issues settled, etc.) .  Lets say the release date selected/ agreed to is October 5, 2004.  

July 5, 2004:  Axl releases a statement that he "knows for a fact" that the album is going to be released October 5, 2004.

Something - ANTHING-  could happen between July 5, 2004 and October 5, 2004 that could change the planned release date.   What?  Who knows.  (As a GN'R fan we could come up with quite a few scenarios).   But the point is that it could in fact be delayed and October 5, 2004 could come and go without a release.  Would that make Axl a liar.  No.  Because in my hypothetical scenario here, Axl said what he in fact truthfully did know for fact on the date he made the statement.

Making statements about planned events that don't take place does not mean that a person who made any such statement lied about the facts that they knew.  Saying what you know (and those things that you know indeed being actual facts) at the time that you say it - and then the plans changing after the fact - does not make what you said a lie.

Eva, you wanna talk facts, lets talk facts........

YOUR beloved axl rose said back when he played rock in rio something along the lines of " well be back here next summer with a whole bunch of new songs " , i cant be arsed to look for an actual quote of the exact words he used because im not that sad but i know im pretty close to what HE said as a fact!

Well, next summer came and no new songs , and so did the next summer, and the one after that.......

Stop talking shit eva, get a life, dont beleive EVERYTHING  you read, axls shit doesnt smell of roses, just like slash`s doesnt, and to be honest, nobody with an ounce of sanity left in their heads really gives a fuck what slash said or what axl said.

Its all about the music and getting out there and doing something .

Axl hasnt produced anything , slash and co has.

That's the problem though - it's not a planned event. This is about the state of the album now.

I want to know how he knows this for a fact, because I don't think Axl and Slash both sat down to listen to them the way that he and Brian May did. He probably took what someone said as a fact. Or like Dizzy said, the interviewer could have made a mistake.

I also think it is possible that he only has a couple tracks with vocals, because I do know someone who said that Axl was having trouble perfecting the vocals - BUT I don't know what that means. He could only have two tracks of vocals or he could be just doing finishing touches.  

And before anyone says that I'm just trying to prove that Slash is right, I'm not. I'm only saying that it is possible that he is right and shouldn't automatically be called a liar.

But anyway, if Axl releases the album anytime soon, we can then discuss whether or not Slash was lying.

But why did Slash make this statement? I think thats the question. Why does he have to offer this information...to Rolling Stone no less? He didnt have the balls to give his source though.

This goes way WAY beyond Axl saying Slash could suck his dick. This is attacking Axl on a business level. He is attacking the mans livelyhood. It helps, along with the Stern appearance to paint a very unfair picture of Axl. He has to know full well that Axl, being Axl, is going to have to respond to these accusations.

If he is asked a particular question, be real about it. But if your not asked shit, why offer something from a supposed insider. What was the point for him saying this? Anyway this for them is all about business, and Slash should do a little thinking when he opens his mouth, especially in regards to (what I guess is just) a rumor that he heard. That is low, and especially from a member of GNR who got hit left and right with bullshit rumors. Now he's going to create his own about Axl.

No, because atleast he says whats on his mind. He doesnt pussyfoot around anything. And your last sentence says it all.

No, I didnt say that ...I said because Slash on one hand says  how "he doesnt care about Gnr/axl and what they are doing, etc." yet on the other hand he says oh its fact that he only has a few vocals on some songs. Well buddy which is it.
Its a big deal because when peopel disagree with Slash, all the slash come out and state how poor ol innoscent slash is just saying what he heard. Why should anyone think what Slash says is true or accurate? Afterall he says he knows nothing about axl and gnr and cares to know nothing? So why even say it?

No, just becaus eGnr doesnt release anything soon doesnt mean jack shit to what SLahs has said. Why should someone who has said numerous times that he has no knowledge or doesnt even care about the situation "facts" outweigh or higher than someone who actually was there and heard the material with their own ears?

No, why dont you get a life. Eva has a great life and you dont need to be talking to her like that.

I agree its all about the music. But just because one person is has done something doesnt mean shit. Good for VR. They made an album in a yr. Whippty doo...Quite Frankly its an average album.But thats for another topic.

All I ask you is what if CD is a masterpiece. Who is anyone to say when or how long an artist should take to release something. Escpecially when theres so much more going into it than just making and recording an album......
But if quanity is better than quality thats your opinion

um, does anyone realize that axl is the only one working on this album right now. everyone else is doing their own thing. hence, axl's parts are the ones that are being worked on. hence, vocals arent done. hence, i bet vocals arent done on any of the tracks yet. its been like this for the past several years. axl wont add vocals until everything else is done. that brian may interview is really old, and the vocals could be really poor quality demo shit for all we know.

also, off topic, youngunner, you say not to tell eva to get alife cuz she doesnt deserve that kind of talk, but when someone else in this thread tells someone to get a life and go get laid, you dont come to their defense because thats disrespectful?

btw, i take back the "stupid" comment eva, but there is no need to make it seem like a contest between people who believe slash versus axl, which is how you portrayed it. this discussion about vocals shouldnt involve personal attacks on people's characters, because we are not in a position to know what is true and what is not.

also, there's no way slash volunteered this info out of hte blue, i'm sure the reporter asked him about axl and that was his response. if someone asks him something, he is allowed to answer whatever he wants. he doesnt give a shit about what axl thinks, pissing axl off, etc- at the same time, he does not hold the same amount of anger at axl that axl holds towards him, which is precisely why he doesnt say things like "the new band is gay". its not because he's a pussy, its because he doesnt really think much about the old band- is that too hard to understand??? if you are going to criticize anyone, it would be axl for not letting go of his anger towards the old guys. (aka: they can suck my dick).

Wait let me get this strait, the guy who couldnt even get into a nu-GnR show says that Axl only has a couple of vocals.....riiiiiight.

sure, no problem... facts  : ok:
Slash likes talking facts.
Facts are cool.


It is a fact that Axl said they'd be back next summer with a whole bunch of new songs.
Yep, he said that.  It is a fact that he said that.  You say it is what "HE said as a fact"... However, how can something that did not yet take place be considered (or be claimed) "as a fact"?  A fact is something that either a) exists b)existed.

(Fact is defined as: Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed.)

Future events can be planned.  And the existense of those plans can be considered fact.
But the future event itself is not a fact unless and until it occurs.



I'm not talking shit.  I have stated my views quite clerly and coherently.  Thats a fact.
btw... even if I were talking 'shit' and you told me to stop, I would not.
You didn't even say 'please'.  Its a known fact that people are more prone to comply to requests when asked in a polite manner.  


You are saying I don't have a life.  I do have a life, thank you very much.  So that is not a fact.
You are being very rude.  That is a fact.


now you are assuming I believe "EVERYTHING" I read.  Assumptions are not facts.
and it sounds like you are telling me what to do.  Thats not a fact or an opinion.
That is just plain obnoxious.



ooo  you got a fact in your arguement.  : ok:
Shit does not smell like roses.  Fact.  very good phaseONE


aw... there ya go again.   :no:
thats not a fact phaseONE (http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/finger/823.gif)
there are thousands and thousands of people who are interested in what Slash and Axl have to say
Don't know if I have any proof to offer... but I think Rolling Stone magazine interviewed Slash because they might have some idea about what interests people  -  seeing how they have a circulation of  1.25 million per issue its safe to say that not all of their interested readers are lacking "an ounce of sanity"

and well obviously, I give a fuck.  And I have at least an ounce of sanity in my head
although you imply that I don't... which again - is not talking facts at all now is it?  (http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/finger/823.gif)  
Hm... matter of fact, I think its safe to say that you are insulting me.  
And I thought you wanted to discuss facts  :-\


 

If thats ALL 'it' was about - then why does Rolling Stone Magazine circulate 1.25 million issues every week?  And anyway - Slash is the one talking about Axl's project.  So don't tell me what its about.  And if you came to a message board to discuss music and this 'shit' doesn't interest you, why are you reading and posting replies about what I've said.   Oh, thats right. Because you wanted to discuss facts.  Well, you did a bang up job of that, now, didn't you?  



aw, you were this close...
What you said is not a fact.  What you said is an assumption.  (one I disagree with).
Axl hasn't released an album.  Slash has.  Now, that there is how you state a fact.

I believe that Axl will release an album - and that's a fact (that I believe he will).



edit: corrected formatting

How exactly you interpret  "Well if Slash says there's only a few songs with vocals, & says he knows it for a fact, that's good enough for me."  as him saying that you can't take what someone says as fact is beyond me. I may be wrong, but i think its best if he answers it for himself.

I have not said whether i think Slash attacked Axl or if he is talking about the present or the past situation with GnR, Ozzycat on a topic in the VR section said that Slashs comments were taken out of context, so i have asked him to see if he can provide a more detailed transcript of the interview.

If you see what he posted on this topic, his only intent is attacking GnR fans and their opinions. You are right he has not attacked Axl or GnR, but just read any other post of his 200 and you'll see where im coming from. It is clear his agenda is to constantly bitch about the band and its fans, if you don't want to see this its not my problem. I think every GnR and VR fan in this forum would agree with me. I mean how can you complain about someone believing everything Axl says when you (meaning provid) does exactly the same, only difference being his idol is Slash.

Im sure no-one at the VR sites likes a 'hardcore/blind' Axl fan at their forums constantly insulting its members and the band they like.

i posted this a couple months ago from a story a guy told me on another board. he was an engineer for Chinese Democracy and some people here did some detective work and figured he was legit. A day later the guy got a hold of me and asked me if i coul;d delete everything i posted because he was coming under intense pressure and was afraid of being blacklisted, as he put it "i want to work in this town again". Not the kind of response one gets from a band to deny the story. As it goes, i think mysteron contacted the label and asked or however he has his inside knowledge, i assume told who it was and they came down on the guy.

the guy said there's basically however many songs with scratch vox which he explained as demo vocals, just humming the melody so the band knows where to come in etc.....judging by the reaction he gave me, the label lost it on him, i can only guess because he gave away secrets.....

i asked jarmo to delete the thread so don't bother going to look for it.

I want to add something to this post.....

People say they "respect" Axl for speaking his mind, no matter what he says.  I say that's a laughable reason to respect anyone, no matter who it is.  If all you do is sputter negativity and insults at other people, you don't deserve one damn iota of respect, no matter how honest you're being.

And AxlGunner's post is correct, you'll notice that Slash only speaks about Axl when he's asked.  Axl doesn't do that.  Rather, he has sputtered venom at every turn onstage during his 2002 tour and the previous shows.

Why?  Because he's obviously bitter, and he's attempting to get the fans to take his side.  Axl's interviews of the last few years are much better, because he doesn't call names.  He presents his side of the story, which is fine.  Axl is entitled to his side of the story, he is entitled to present his side of the story, and his side of the story is just as valid as the other sides (even though I personally may not agree with some of the things he says).

But all the enraged rants (a la "suck my dick!") do not constitute "Axl presenting his side of the story".  What he is doing there is trying to get the fans to take sides, trying to pit them against the former members, because he displays these paranoid delusions that everybody is out to get him, and he tries to convince the fans that these delusions are reality.  And it seems many people have indeed been convinced and have adopted Axl's mentality.  They assume that because Axl is bitter and angry at his former bandmates, his former bandmates must also feel the same way about him.  And the reality is, they probably don't.  They probably just feel (as Slash said) their relationship with Axl ran its course, and that's the end of the story.

And even if they did feel bitter and resentful towards about Axl....well, let's hypothetically assume that Slash is out to get Axl and would love to make Axl-esque statements to him.

To paraphrase something Eva once said, "I would respect Slash more if he came out and said 'suck my dick', at least he'd be honest then."

Firstly, do any of you really believe that the reason Axl is making flagrantly nasty and provocative statement such as those is to defend the good name of "honesty"?  Do you believe that honesty is the sole motivating factor behind his rants?  I don't think any of you believe that Axl rants in the name of honesty, so it's pointless to respect him just for being honest anyhow.

Secondly, I could not disagree more with Eva's statement.  Even if Slash really wanted to say "Axl can suck my dick!" onstage, I would have no respect for him if he did.  I don't give a damn if he would've been displaying more honesty or not.  I would not respect him for blatantly trying to get the fans to take sides, for blatantly trying to turn the fans into Axl haters, for blatantly trying to stir up a shit pot which doesn't need to be stirred -- because the overactive imaginations of certain 'fans' are damn sure already stirring it, and I'm talking about both sides when I say that; both the "Slash is a liar" crowd and the "Fuck Axl Rose" chanters.

Back to the point, I respect Slash because he doesn't come out onstage and air his dirty laundry, because he doesn't come onstage and try to force-feed his opinions of Axl to the fans.  The fact that when Slash comes onstage, he focuses on what he is there to do, play a show and entertain the fans, and leaves his personal issues with Axl as just that...personal matters between himself and Axl, and doesn't bring them onstage.  He only speaks of Axl when asked, and actually, that's the only thing I don't like about Slash, the fact that he even bothers to answer the same old questions about Axl at all, when he should just tell the reporters/interviews that he doesn't want to discuss that anymore, because he's discussed it to death.

Again, how do you know what is on his mind?


How does relating something he heard from someone else to an interviewer "caring" about the music, or even caring at all? That doesn't mean he cares enough to hear the album. He was asked, and he told what he knew about it. Just because you don't think he should have said anything about it at all, doesn't make what he said untrue.
 


Not many people did say he was correct in saying that, but only that it is a possibility that it's true, and if it's not, it doesn't make him a liar. If he knows that it isn't true, why would he say it? What would be the point?


He probably knows people who are in touch with Axl or people who know someone who is. A lot of these rumors get out to people. If he said it was a fact, I'm almost inclined to believe him. He said he knows it as a fact, so I'd take that over anyone's opinions here.


If it comes out soon, then we will know that what he said was most likely incorrect. If it doesn't then we will know that he could have been correct. So no, it wouldn't prove anything, but it would still give us an idea of whether or not it could have been true or not.


No one said that Slash's word outweighs Brian's, and I wouldn't, because I would seriously believe anything that Brian says, because I think if anything was untrue, or even a rumor, Brian wouldn't say it. I don't know Slash personally. BUT, Brian said that YEARS ago and things could have changed. I wonder if Brian would say the same thing now. Probably not. Axl could have started all over, and I really wouldn't be surpirsed if he did, being the perfectionist that he is.

There were probably 5 seprate rants from the past tour that Axl has said somethign about his former bandmates. So to say he has taken every chance hes gotten to say negative stuff about the band is false. Plus when exactely has Axl himself addressed the hwole gnr situation and how he feelsa about the old band? Rio, and last tour. And in the press release he didnt say one negative thing about them.

How is he attempting to get the fans to take his side. Its obivious he doesnt need to regain his old fans back. The people who care about GNr have remained. Hes got his fans.

Maybe hes so fed up that Slash has lied over the years. MAybe thats why he is "bitter". Maybe theres a reason he feels that way. Maybe its not just because he wants to be a dick and curse. Maybe theres a reason he feels the way he feels.

And your right. In the press release all Axl did was tell his side of the story. And he refuses to answer anythign regarding his old band mebers in interviews. Thats somethign SLash should do. If you notice, most SLash vs. Axl debates originate from when Slash opens his mouth.
Slash has been debating with himself over the years and its kind of funny to watch.

Are you serious? So your telling me that everyone was on Slash's side prior to the 2002 tour? And then when GNR went on tour and Axl made a few rants, people opinions changed? Hell fukin no....
Maybe its because people are always hearing SLash say something different and just keep bringing the same old stuff up. All he has to say is no comment to Axl/new gnr questions and tell Sorum to shut his mouth up as well.

Just because you think Axl is trying to get fans on his side doesnt mean its true. Its far from true. Axl could give two shits what anyone thinks on the topic. He says what he says. Axl stayed out of the spotlight for years. He hasnt said one word. SLash has been giving interviews since he left. He said his story and whatver he wanted to say millions of times. Axl goes on tour for the first time and decides to say how he feels about Slash. Maybe SLash is lying. ANd thats why Axls mad. Thats why hes angry. Doesnt he have the right to say how he feels?

Slash should simply say no comment. Not laugh and giggle like a lil school girl. And certaintly not say what he thinks he knows about CD, especially since 2 weeks ago he said he could careless about them. Then why even say something about it? Whats the point? WHo cares what Slash says about new gnr. He has no clue about the material or what they have recorded. All he knows is that hes out of a band.

I find it real funny how you now are saying Axl tries to manipulate fans. It cant get any funnier.

All i can say about this constant "Slash is a liar" "Slash contradicts himself" "Slash changes his mind about everything" etc

Well if you're been having a gallon of jack daniels and an 8 ball of cocain every day for 4 years you're minds gonna be pretty fucked up. He probably lost whatever intelligence he once had. He probably can't even remember things he has said only days ago. He's also probably lost ability the to articulate whats on his mind into words.

Drugs are bad, Slash does his best to stay truthfully, but sometimes he can't put the words together to say what he thinks properly. Thus all the problems. :smoking:


This is just a theory ofcourse. 8)

I love the twisted logic of the majority of people on this board. I remember before I left the boards people were defending Axl saying he had every right to say the things he did about the old band members. Slash or Duff could say the most innocent things about Axl and people would get all up in arms about it. The bottom line is shit talking is lame no matter who does it. I don't like it when Axl, Slash, Duff or anyone does it. But you can't have it both ways, you can't defend Axl for doing it and then say the other guys have no right. Just like you shouldn't defend Slash and company and then bitch about Axl. The more things change the more they stay the same around here.

Im not debating what he said was true or not. I could careless about what SLash says regarding gnr.
My point was why even say what you know if you constantly tell people you could give two shits baout it.

No, like I told Dizzy before...whether CD comes out or not doesnt have anything to do with what Slash says. Brian May has heard 2 albums worth of material and it didnt come out. SO what does that mean. He was lying? Slash comment are not the watermark to see if CD is doen or not. SOrry to tell you that.

Plus hes put on a few pouns in the gut and face.....lol as eminem says...jp america

I dont have a problem with Slash and company saying whatever they wann say about Axl/GNr. BUt i do have a problem because half the time they try to act like they are above that by saying "oh i dont care about Axl/gnr, i dont know anything about it dude, yaydaydyay" yet on the otherhand there relaying me facts about CD. How is that possible. Stick with one side. EIther say what you want or simply say no comment. They cant have it boht ways.

That's five more than Slash has ranted during the ongoing VR tour.


That isn't what I meant.  I don't mean decide whose music is better.  Obviously, people will come to see Axl because they like the music.  I meant that Axl is attempting to convince the fans who is right or wrong when it comes to the breakup.  If he just presented his side, that would be fine.  Fans could take it for what it's worth, same as they would Slash or any of the other former members.  But Axl doesn't only do that, he has to call names and hurling mud as well.


But yet Slash doesn't do the same thing.  His side of the story obviously conflicts with Axl's side, so based upon that, one might deduce that Axl is the one lying, yet you don't hear Slash spewing insults and calling names.  You only hear Axl doing it.


Thanks, you made my case for me and you also contradicted yourself.  On one hand you state that Axl doesn't care, then you turn around and state that Axl is pissed at Slash for lying.  Why would Axl get angry at Slash for lying to the audience?  He doesn't care what they think, remember?  So why would he need to refute what Slash said to an audience when he doesn't care what they think?  The answer is very clear, my man, Axl does care what they think, and he wants those fans to believe what he believes, plain and simple.



No no no.  I'm not referring to anyone's opinions on either of them.  I was directly describing the manner in which Axl addresses tha fans as opposed to Slash's.  Nowhere did I cite how the fans actually reacted or might react.


He doesn't bring it up, and you acknowledged that yourself in your very next statement.


I concur, and I've already said that.


I doubt very seriously you actually believe that.  There is no other reason for him to vent his rage that way to an audience unless he is trying to manipulate them.  If he wanted to vent about Slash, he could vent to anybody.  Friends, associates, employees, Beta....anyone.  You're stating that he just randomly picks his audience as the ones to whom he rants about these issues?  Give me a break.  There's a reason he picks those times to vent that bitterness of his.  He wants the audience to see it the way he does.  Laugh at it all you want, there's no other reason why he does it.

If Axl really didn't give two shits about what the audience thinks, I highly doubt he'd waste his time ranting about it.

I mean hell, when you need to take a load off your mind, who do you talk to?  Someone you're close to, or a slew of total strangers?  You don't tell strangers (i.e. an audience at a concert) anything unless you do care what they think and want them to believe a certain thing.


His "rights" are beside the point.


Poor attempt to discredit what I said.  Just read the above, it's common sense.  Hell, you should have put a :rofl: on there for good measure, like Dave does every time he wants people to know he's laughing at their "funny" beliefs.

Yep and maybe '50-100' less than Slash since break-up. Both have talked their fair amount of shit between them, but i think Slash has been alot worse, maybe because Axl was 'hiding' so many years.

As for the break of the band I think that Slash and co. were to fucking high to probable remember what really happened. What happened was probable something in-between what they all say. : ok:

Oh yes, I definitely recall Slash saying "Axl's a bad cop and he can suck my dick!" 50 to 100 times.   ::)

Yet you say that Slash and co. "talk shit continuously" about Axl, and you base that on this and the Howard Stern discussion. Whatever.



I would call this debating whether or not what he said was true:


And you just assume that it's not (the truth), when the fact that Brian May said that YEARS ago has NOTHING to do with the state of the album NOW.

Slash NOW says, as a fact, that there are only two tracks of vocals. Things may have changed since Brian has heard the recordings. Axl could be redoing the vocals - you don't know more than anyone else does, but like I said before, Slash probably knows people who know that information.


Then don't say that you don't, when the whole reason why you're posting in this thread is to say what they should and shouldn't say about Axl/GNR.


First of all, they aren't "trying to act." Just because Axl acts like a child and resorts to temper tantrums and stupid comments such as "suck my dick," doesn't mean that is what Slash is thinking (though I know you have this belief that you know what is in Slash's mind).

Second of all, I don't understand your problem with Slash answering a question which he was asked. He didn't say what he thought about it, whether it is good, bad, whether he was happy, or sad - he didn't claim to care - he simply answered a question.  

Not exactly that, but referred to him in interviews, tv etc.. in a derrogatroy way.

Only in the loosest sense of the word.  Stating that he disagreed with Axl using the GNR name and that he disagreed with Axl's preference of musical direction is not insulting Axl.

(Regarding Slash's response to the crowd's "Fuck Axl Rose" chant I said): "in my opinion slash said 'was that really necessary' because as usual he wants to look like 'the good guy' who has no 'hard feelings' against his 'bro'.  i'd prefer if he just came out and said something like 'axl can suck my dick' instead of being two faced"


No, I think he has issues with Slash and Duff.  I think he said they could suck his dick the way any one else means it when they say it.  Its an insult.  In no uncertain terms he is providing a colorful verbal depiction of what he thinks of them... and what he thinks they are worthy of.


I can understand what you are saying.  You prefer if they both 'made nice' - even if it was just for show.  I can understand that.  Yes, it would be a hell of a lot easier to be a GN'R fan.  But, the fact remains that Axl has issues with Slash and Duff.  And though some will dispute it (despite the existence of a 16 page law suit in which they claim that Axl maliciously and intentionally defrauded them; desspite the numerous comments that Slash continues to make such as the "no one wants to blame Axl (for the breakup of the band) but there is no one else to blame" and his other recent comment saying that "Scott always wants to work and thats a change - it was impossible to get Axl to do anything") - the fact remains that Slash and Duff have issues with Axl.  



Blatantly is synonymous with honestly.  ;D
hehe... I know it also means in looser terms "brash" and "ballsy" (is "ballsy" a word?  lol.  I dunno :P )
Thing is I personally prefer Axl's explicitness to Slash's ambiguity or even (dare I say) covertness - regardless of whom it might offend - to me, it is preferrable.

But again, at the same time I understand what you are saying.  Axl drew a clear line between himself and Slash & Duff when he said they could "suck his dick."  But no more so than "Saul Hudson & Michael McKagan" V. "W. Axl Rose" (the cover page of the lawsuit) does.

And to anyone who says they have their reasons... I say - so does Axl.


Does it really matter if it is in the press or in front of a crowd at a show or in a statement on your official website?  
In person, with the words coming out of your own mouth, in front of thousands of eyewitnesses - or on your own website eliminates the chance of being misquoted or of some claiming that it must be a misquote (as some in this thread even mentioned that Slash may be misquoted.)
Though, I can understand if you say you'd rather go to a show and just hear the music.
Thats cool.  With Axl, though, you can count on him to share his feelings with us personally.  When has he ever not done so?  I can understand if that you'd prefer if he didn't.  You are not alone in that.  But, I rather Axl just be who/how he is... and not hide or sugar coat his feelings - even if it means that I get home from a show 20 minutes later than I would have if he didn't.  Even if it means that some fans are going to be pissed about it.  
The day Axl starts measuring his words for the sole sake of not riling anyone up - is the day he stops being Axl.  

So far as force-feeding, I get what you are saying.  I'm sure many would prefer if they did not have to hear about it.  You can ignore /deny even if you'd like the implications of what is quoted 'offhand' in an interview or the accusations buried in a sixteen page document - but when Axl makes a statement in front of an audience it is unavoidable and undeniable.  And to fans who like you don't care about "all that shit" I can understand that you'd prefer he didn't make ya have to hear it.  



I hear ya.  Even if he only speaks about Axl when asked, its of of little consequence.  When he does make comments like the ones he made in this interview (about knowing for fact that there are vocals on only a couple of tracks) its really not too difficult to see why he does - regardless of what would make our being GN'R fans easier - the fact is that these men have issues with eachother and they are going to express it - its going to come out one way or another.  

anyway. like i said above several times.  i understand and will add - respect your opinions as you've stated them.  i would hope no one would take offense at any of my comments.  :peace:

He is SLASH and he's out there in the music industry knowing things and meeting the right people you won't ever meet;and this also goes for the rest of you people who seem to know everything about Axl Rose who gives a flying fuck about you.  you don't know SHIT!
 And Dave you called Slash a liar,I think the only liar in this picture is Axl,he's been giving the wrong information about the CD for a long time now. Hey Bud,think twice before u post.  :peace:

Firstly, I didn't mean to take your statement out of context, so I hope you didn't interpret it that way.  And I just used your comment as an example, you're certainly far from being the only person who's ever said that he/she respects Axl for speaking his mind.

Secondly, I addressed the alleged "two faces of Slash" in the last post.  I said that just because he tells people to stop chanting "Fuck Axl Rose" does not mean he is two faced.  Despite the fact that Slash may have issues with Axl, that doesn't mean that he has a "Fuck Axl Rose" mentality himself.

Another thing is that Slash is probably damned sick and tired of hearing the name "Axl Rose".  He probably wishes people would stop asking him about it.  Now you may say, "well then, why does he always answer questions about Axl?"  Well, even in the interviews where he answers questions about Axl, at times he seems to be frustrated at having to answer them.


Well, I am not saying that either of them has to lie.  Axl doesn't need to go onstage and say "I love Slash so much" or anything like that.  Neither does Slash.  What I wish for is to be able to go to a show and watch a band perform.  VR did a good job of that.  I saw Velvet Revolver in Philadelphia a couple weeks ago, and Slash (again) stopped the "Fuck Axl Rose" chant by telling the fans that the Philly Riot had nothing to do with VR, and to "just leave it alone".  He again stopped the chant moments later by saying "We're playing an old school song now (Used to Love Her), but let's just leave the redhead out of this".  Then after the song, Duff piped up and said "Scott rules would be a better chant".  As I said, the two of them focus on the show at hand, because that is what they are there for.  They don't try and make Axl haters out of the crowd.  They don't try to make the fans look at the situation a certain way.  Unfortunately, some of the fans there were already doing that, and Slash and Duff made it a point to shut those people up.  And since I was there, I can tell you they were both serious about it.

But fortunately, not VR fans are like that.  It's funny, because when I was outside the venue waiting in line to enter, this older guy walked up along the line and said "can I get a Fuck Axl Rose chant?  Come on, he fucked us here [in Philly] last time!"  And every single person (including myself) looked at him like he was some weird alien or something.  One guy even said "Damn, the show hasn't even started and that dude's already drunk!"  It was funny to witness.   :D


True, but the difference is that Duff & Slash did a much better job at picking their time to "draw the line", so to speak, between themselves and Axl.  Judging by your last statement (regarding Axl force-feeding his sentiments), I think you'd understand that.  You don't need to read Slash's and Duff's lawsuit brief if you don't want to, but if you're at an Axl show, you're going to be listening to what he says whether you want to or not.  The difference is that Duff & Slash picked the more appropriate forum to "draw the line".



I agree....but there is a difference between Axl's new rants and the old days...Axl used to rant about asshole reporters and things like that.  In other words, people that the fans didn't give a damn about.  But now he rants about hhis former bandmates; people that he knows the audience adores.  It isn't considerate to the fans who love all the members of the original GNR to hear one slamming the other so viciously.  And yes, I am aware Axl is not exactly a poster boy for consideration, but you catch my drift.   ;)



Precisely....we all have our beliefs as to why the original lineup isn't together, but we still love all the members for what they've given us (Minus those damned Steven haters around here that I have to correct all the time  :P ).  So it upsets me when Axl says these things about these musicians whom I admire for the music they gave me.  And contrary to what my detractors out there would like to believe, I'd say the same thing if Slash was the one saying "Axl can suck my dick!".  Hell, even though Slash hasn't said things like that, I've still heard enough from him about Axl, and I've already said that Slash should tell these damn reporters "next question please!" whenever they pester him about Axl, because I get tired of reading a question like that every damn time Slash gets interviewed.  He needs to buck up to them and tell them to piss off.   : ok:

Now lets take those 5 rants and compare them to every interview Slash has basically done since leaving GNR.


NO he isnt. He is saying that SLash is a dick. NOthing more nothing less. To try and make this a "axl is trying to manipulate people" is ridiculous.

Im not debating if what Slash is saying, or Axl for that matter is true or not. Im discussing the fact that SLash says all this stuff about Axl, yet he doesnt care and has facts on CD. WHich is it.


Axl is a frontman, SLash plays the guitar. You dont go to see SLash and expect him to say anything. Axl rants and says whatver is on his mind.

BUt he doesnt say what we both would liek him to say. Thats where I have a problem. I dont have a problem with him saying whatver he wants. BUt when he says he doesnt care yet brings up stuff about the topic then hes lieing.

Stop bringing it up. Theres no proof of that plus its ridiculous.

And if I go by that, the same could be said about SLash. AFter all he has been in a million interviews since he lft and is always talking about Axl/GNr. Half the time his responses try to insinuate that Axl broke up the band etc. BUt hes not manipulating.

Why tehre are two sides to every story. One side has spoken for years where the other has just come out of the woodwork.

Yea its common sense. EVERYONE AXL HAS BEEN TRYING TO MANIPULATE YOU WHEN HE SAYS SLASH IS A PUSSY. HEADS UP.

Are you a little girl? Axl said SLash could suck his dick. BIg deal. What does that have to do with the way SLash is always implying that Axl broke up the band.

Are you dense? Im not debating what SLash has said. Im saying that what he said contradicts what he has been saying about Axl/new gnr.

Everyone expresses themselves differently :D

Second of all, I don't understand your problem with Slash answering a question which he was asked. He didn't say what he thought about it, whether it is good, bad, whether he was happy, or sad - he didn't claim to care - he simply answered a question.  
My problem with SLash is not what he says per say but his whole attitude. One day he says he could give 2 shits about Axl/gnr etc then anohter day he is giving me facts on CD, in an article about hs band. He cant have it both ways. And whats even more pussy about it is that he sugar coats everything.ALways implying stuff instead of saying it.

Yep. SO dont go. And please stop insinuating that all of Axls rants are about SLash. When thats not the case. And those slash rants are no more than a minute long. He doesnt sit down and lecture the audience about Slash being a dick.

but dizzy how do u know they stopped the chants not to bash axl as much as they didnt want axl having anything to do with their show

its like wrestling if people cheer u they love u, if they boo u they still love u, if not they wouldnt give a fuck either way

i think slash stopped them because they are velvet revolver but yet people still couldnt shut up about someone who isnt even in the band

if i were in a band like that and they were chanting something about a guy no longer in the band it would hurt my ego and piss me off cause they arent focusing on my new band instead they are focused on axl rose


axl is the greatest front man because he plays the awesome face character and the great heel character but he is still loved and respected either way , just like chicago 92 when he tells the crowd to "shut the fuck up"

who else could get away with that

so maybe we shouldnt honor slash and duff for defusing a chant because it may not have had anything to do with not wanting to bash axl

they just didnt wanna hear his name at their concert, imagine being the singer of a new band and the crowd only talks about the old singer, i think slash and duff were more on ego control than worried bout fans bashing axl

BS. Slash would not know how many tracks are finished, or any kind of details about anything pertaining to the new GNR.

We don't know that, D.

The crowd was chanting that because obviously they thought that's what the band wanted to hear, as to say that they are on their side. If VR had a problem with Axl's name being mentioned at one of their concerts, they would probably have the same problem answering questions about Axl in all of their interviews, which they don't.

Do you think that Axl would have stopped them from chanting "Fuck Slash" at a GNR show? No, because Axl starts saying shit like that himself, saying "Slash can suck my dick" and such, so he definitely doesn't have a problem with Slash's name being mentioned at his own shows.


He could easily know someone with that information.

And I like how people are saying that he wouldn't know the details about anything pertaining to GNR, yet before people insisted that he was lying about the VMAs, and that he would have known about it beforehand because he probably have friends that know such information.

::)

That's what people like to think. People like to twist his words around to make him out to be the bad guy, and give their own interpretations of what he says. But he said that he blames himself as well, and that no one wants to blame Axl. You can take that any way you want to. Of course Slash is going to have his own side of the story, and he gives it, but he does it without name calling and he doesn't try to get the fans to "choose sides."


Oh, so because Axl is a frontman, he has the right to throw tantrums and call people names? And no, you don't expect shit like that from Slash, because he is there to play music and not act like a four year old. Can't say the same for Axl. If I ever went to see GNR live, it wouldn't be to hear the rants and negative comments about Slash.   
   

Sure. Slash has given his side of the story, without throwing tantrums, name calling, and blaming everybody but himself. As Dizzy said, all the rants such as "suck my dick" do not prove anything or explain his side of the story. He is just trying to get the audience to take his side.


Did you even read my post? Slash never implied that he gives a shit about the state of Chinese Democracy and I'm sure he didn't go out of his way to find this out. He probably heard about it, was asked about it, and answered.

Well atleast we know Slash isnt inside Axl's ass anymore.
 :hihi:

hehe just kidding common people stop analyzing this thing its really sad this happened to the most exiting duo in rock history. Peace.

As I recall, I dont remember Axl telling anyone from the old band to "suck his dick" on the 2002 tour. All he would say is that they didnt want to work on certain songs, and Axl had to kind of force them to do it. Correct me if I'm wrong, tell which shows he said "suck my dick Slash."

PS: Once he said that Slash is in his ass, but that was b/c someone was annoying him with a sign.

Im not just going on what he has recently said. Lets not forget there are a million slash interviews out there.

Welcome To THe Jungle baby......

Of course not. Because Axl doesnt rant about Slash every 5 seconds like your making it out to be. He ranted a handful of times on the last tour baout him. Each time no more than a minute. Hes not siting down and giving lectures on SLash, so relax.
And when hes not giving rants, he showing you why hes the worlds greatest frontman. ;D

This new thoery that you guys have been throwing around is funny as hell. First off by Axl curising doesnt mean hes trying to explain his side of the story. HE just calling him a dick, nothing more nothing less.
Please stop with this bullshit manipulating audience thing.


He went out of his way to say it in an interview and state it as fact. WHich contradicts hiw whole "i could give 2 shits about what Axl is doing with that band of his" attitude.

It is a fairly pointless exercise trying to analyse everything, you know - why certain people said certain stuff, acted in certain ways, etc.

The way I see it, I can't tell what Slash thinks about any of this or Axl, because one second he's saying bad thing about Axl, then he's stopping a crown chant against Axl, then he's commenting on CD, then he's trying not to get involved in the issue, then he's happy to comment on the issue....

I think both have their side to say, and as far as I'm concerned they can say it. Be honest. Axl comes out and he says exactly what he thinks of Slash/old members. I haven't a clue what Slash thinks. If he wants to come out and say "fuck Axl" or "Axl's a joke" or whatever, then that's fine with me too.

Maybe Slash is trying to be the better man, rise above name calling, etc. That's fine if you're gonna do it properly and not comment at all, but when he still lets comments slip out here and there, it seems like he wants to look the better man, but still wants to get snide digs in on Axl.

It could be he's really trying not to comment on it, and honestly doesn't want to cause friction, but it's understandable why people might think he's being two-faced.

You can't tell which it is.

@#$%Muther

P.S. Axl saying what he thinks, and talking to the crowd is what he does. I wouldn't class it as throwing a tantrum.

it was in albany. before out ta get me i think. i was there. it was a cool intro, i enjoyed it, but i certainly didn't take it for gospel.

it amazes me that some people can find ways to justify axl saying whatever the fuck he wants but dont allow slash to do the same. you make excuses for axl that you dont apply to slash. i dont know why i get annoyed at people being so naive but i do, and like a train wreck i cant help but watching this thread.

and dont say there's a double standard because people are trying to bitch about axl and let slash say whatever he wants, because you are forgetting how this all started. people started calling slash a liar, and then others jumped in to point out your hipocrasy by using your own arguments to show how you should be critical of axl also if you are going to criticize slash. i dont think anyone really cares what axl says, and everyone agrees he has a right to say it- the only reason it was brought up is to get people to realize how biased their perceptions of reality are.

but its useless trying to convince some people, i think we should just stop.

I just listened to Albany, and Axl doesnt say anything before Out Ta Get Me, so maybe it was in another part of the show, or maybe he didnt say it at all.

hmm i'm 99% sure it was albany, cuz i was there for it. not sure if it was out ta get me but i thought it was. i thought axl ends his rant with something like "yea well i'm serpico and theyre the cops and they can suck my dick cuz theyre out ta get me"... but i might be wrong on the parts after "dick". it might've been another before another song then.

I was also at MSG but i dont think thats where he said it.

What are you in denial?

Heres the rant...

"Now I was uh, perusing. I was reading all about my integrity, cause that's what I'm known for I guess---selling out my integrity. That's why I'm here with you now, cause I don't give a fuck I guess. Yeah, that's why we worked real hard at this, that's why these guys worked real hard at being in a band that they can get abuse for, because "they're the guys in the way of getting the old band back together." That's horseshit. I'm not trying to bum anybody out, but, you know, I was thinking about it. I'm pretty blunt so people get real pissed. And I haven't done a lot of talking on this tour. Ill shut up real soon don't worry. Y'know, I tried acting nice and that just ends up fucking me right up the ass. They take advantage of that. "Axl said something nice so how can we use that to our advantage?" The truth is they didn't want to be here for you at this level and they don't want to take it farther. I mean, that's their business right? But not at my expense or yours. You've been played. You've been lied to. You've been used. Youve been manipulated so that they can ride around in limos and jam with Snoop Dogg or whoever the fuck. You know, I don't care, that's their business. But they shouldn't really do it at your expense or mine. Now as soon as I say this it'll be on an MP3, someone will transcribe it, and the next person will say "Can you believe Axl said that? I mean my god. I mean he hasn't put out a record. I don't know why he would say that. I mean who does he think he is? That's not very nice. The other guys, they have gotten over it and they're his friend now and they're willing to be his friend and he just needs to grow up." I'm sorry. I'm a little bit more blunt. I mean Slash may sound like a De La Hoya, but he's the fuckin Vargas. That's just how it is. And just because he's got a bunch of guys agreeing doesn't mean shit. The truth is that they're a bunch of bad cops and I'm the fuckin Serpico and they can 'suck my dick'!
"Y'know without Axl and Slash we wouldn't have November Rain and Estranged." Well you don't know what the fuck I went through to get that guy to play those songs. You don't know about the argument we had at K&M studios, because Duff and Slash came to me going "We're not gonna do that song, we're not gonna do this song, nope, nope, we're just not gonna do it." But I wanna do it. We'll do it right now. This song is called 'patience'."


Oh, well thats perfectly understandable...I mean, its not like he could just talk about the guy holding the sign, Slash is obviously an accomplice who deserves mention... ::)

Also...Not to "prove" that Slash is right or anything, but just a quote to take into consideration, from an interview done about 11 months ago...

IGN: Since we're talking about rock musicians, what was the deal with you
arranging some orchestral sections for the impending Guns N Roses album?

Marco Beltrami: That was sort of just work for hire. I guess they'd heard
some of my orchestral music of mine. I met with Axl and he played me these songs, asked me my ideas about them, and I told him what I thought they needed.
They gave me four songs to orchestrate. A couple of them I did more than orchestrating, I actually wrote some melodies and stuff. It was a fun project. I really enjoyed it. The music was eclectic and at the time that I was doing it there were no lyrics on the songs that I was working on. People ask me about the album and I really have no idea about the release. I thought it was coming out last September. I'm the wrong person to ask about that.

IGN: He came to you with the tracks then, so you weren't ever in the studio with the musicians or anything like that

Marco Beltrami: No, they had finished tracks. On one song I actually wrote a guitar part, but they pretty much had the band tracks down and then I added orchestral stuff on top of it.

I guess I have a cut version of it then b/c i listened to SCO'M and it went right into OTGM without any talking. I'll have to get another version of the show then. And about the fan with the sign, yeah sure he could have cussed out the fan, but he probably wasnt really thinking about it at the time and thats the first thing that came out of his mouth. Maybe not!!!

Actually its the other way around.  Certain people were getting all pissy when Axl would talk about the old band at the 2002 shows.   Those slash fans said Axl should just shut up and stop talking about slash, eventhough for years before Slash was always bashing Axl.  And now again it is ok that Slash is making up lies about Axl and talking shit, but you know once Axl starts talking about Slash again these same people that are saying its ok for slash to talk about Axl will stay Axl should not be talking shit about slash.  It really amazes me how ass backwards things are when they come to things like this.  Atleast Axl does not have to make up things when he talks about Slash.  The is the point of calling Slash a liar and having him shut up.  But slashs head is so fucked up from all the drugs and booze he does not even know what day it is.

If anyone's interested, read the concert's thread from 2 years ago where people who went there posted their reactions to the 'rant'. they are very interesting, and some are being echoed here today. also, notice how they are civilized critiques and not mindless bashing and name calling, also its a civilized argument and not one attacking axl personally (unlike like some of the people posting in this thread) .

(also, to dave, notice that i am someone who now says slash can say whatever he wants, and back then i also said axl could say whatever he wants. stop making up stories that fit your deluded perceptions of gnr/slash fans cuz you are wrong.)

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=54;start=40 (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=54;start=40)

mine is there also, and, personally, i loved the rant, its typical axl- but at the same time you people here aren't in a position to talk shit about slash when what he says is tame compared to axl. people have different personalities and different ways to say things- one is not better than the other.

if someone calls slash a pussy because he wont call axl a dick then you're fucked up and i wonder how you get along with people in the real world. i, personally, have no desire to go around badmouthing people i know who i have a problem with, thats just my preference, because its not worth my time, and that's the way slash handles it also. let the man make a few snide remarks if they happen to slip by- the man's not perfect, but who is? its like not talking about an ex-girlfriend who you now hate cuz she fucked you over- you want to let it stay in the past and not talk about it, but every now and then when the topic of her is brought up, you'll let something slip- not because youre a pussy, but because its human nature.

name one person from the thread i posted who criticized axl for speaking then and now supports slash.

you live in a fantasy world dude.

The only thing fucked up, is thatt people like Dizzy, and others (you know who you are), that take all this too seriously. That makes me wonder how thye get along (as AxlGunner puts it) in the real world.

All I really did was point out some hypocracies and contradictions in what Slash and Duff had said and done. But, in the end, this is just entertainment.

In fact, I laughed when Slash said he refused to watch GNR's VMA performance. He contradicted himself. Or this rumor that he created about Axl and only recording vocals on 2 songs. Its a rumor....but its fucking funny.

Shit, I never laughed harder when Axl said Slash was up his ass, or that he was fucking Serpico, and they can suck his dick. That was classic. If you guys can't see the humor in that, then point blank...you guys are fucksticks. I love Axls rants...they are never NOT good. Slash, is entertaining in his " im a dummy" way. You know, the classic of all classics, grammy speech. He said (from memory) " This is fucking great, oh shit, did I just say fuck." I watched that over and over till my tape melted. Slash is fucking funny. He is just funny in a different way now. Axl is funny for the same reason reason he always was.

Anyway happy friday...and to all the other dads out there (even you Slash)...have a fucking kickass fathers day yo!

I am not talking about that thread. I am talking about all the times Axl has said something about Slash or duff and gets roasted for it, and people saying Axl should just stop talking about the old members. Everyone knows who these people are and its fine to play dumb but we all know it happened, and no I am not going through posts from 2 years ago just to find them, I have better things to do.

So, once Axl starts talking again and saying stuff about slash and duff people like  you and the others can't say shits since most of  you think its ok that slash talks about axl.

The reason Slash and Duff get free passes from the 'normal' world when talking about Axl is they aren't the villan. In most peoples eyes the reason there isn't a 'real' Guns N' Roses is Axl fucked it up.

Another thing, VR is on a press tour and are being asked questions about the old band and about Axl.....IMO they do a good job of answering the questions with out bashing him to much (he does give them plenty of ammo). In 2002 Axl walked on stage and started talking about his 'other freinds' and banning former members from shows.

So don't compare Axl going on stage unprovoked and bashing his former band mates, to VR doing press for an album that got released and fielding questions.
 

Yes, he does give his side of the story, but in which of those interviews did he say "Axl can suck my dick," or any name calling, etc... I like how people say that they each have their own story and are going to speak their minds in different ways, yet when Slash gives his side of the story people say he is lying, is out to get Axl, or is being two faced. But Axl says "they can suck my dick," and it's okay.  


It doesn't matter how long the rants took, that's not the point. And he can show us that he's the world's greatest frontman without throwing fits and making uneccessary comments. If Slash said, "Axl can suck my dick" you wouldn't be defending him for it (he already gets a hard time when he says anything because people have this belief that everything he says is against Axl.)


I know he isn't trying to explain his side of the story by saying "suck my dick." That doesn't explain anything. If he DID explain his side of the story, that would be fine, and people could either agree with it or not. But what is the point of saying "they can suck my dick"? He's not doing anything but trying to get people to agree, and to think his rants are "cool." You would accuse Slash of the same thing if he spouted off shit like that, because there is no other reason for it. If Axl wants to vent he could talk to ANYBODY, but there is no other reason for saying that shit to an audience unless he is trying to get everyone on his side.


Out of his way? I don't think he said, "Hey, you won't believe this shit I found out about Axl!!!" I don't think he went out of his way to find out about it or talk about it. He probably heard about it, and was asked a question on the subject, and related what he knew to the interviewer. He didn't show concern or imply that he cared.


I heard Chris Thompson talking about it in January or February that Axl was having trouble perfecting the vocals.


See, younggunner, this is the whole reason why Axl rants the way he does: to get people to think it's "cool."


How did he contradict himself? Did he say he watched it and then say he didn't?

And I doubt he "created" this rumor. If it is just a rumor, he probably heard it from someone else. I don't see a reason he would just make that up.

Stop arguing with Dave & the other Axl-lovers who are blinded by their passion and deny every fact, create factoids and they explain the inexplicable. They live in their world, they know CD is coming, Slash is a liar, Axl cares of them, Axl is always right and he is perfect. I know it's hard not to comment their weird thinking, but try it.  : ok:

I think this arument has hit a stand still anyway and this thread should probably be closed because of it. People like this are talking shit about "Axl-lovers" even though they are doing the same thing for Slash and Company. Everyone is taking this entertainment medium and getting way too fucking serious about it.

I think we all just need to take a few hits and chill the fuck out. Its only Rock N' Roll.

It's no more pathetic than the people who get all up in arms because Slash or other ex-members say something that is remotely negative. They act like a bunch of star-struck children. It's embarrassing and pathetic.

You would think people on both sides would learn to move on already.

You got to understand first, the nature of being a fan of something, or someone. When there is someone talking shit about someone you break it down if you are a fan of him, or were a fan at some point. Its when you talk shit about someone for doing the same thing that you are doing on the flip side, is when your words of being "embarrasing and pathetic" more applies.

Anyway, I understand how passionate we can all get about this. We are fans. That is why we talk here. GNR (members past and present) talk a lot of shit. So I suppose that is why we all do. A fan, is short for FANatic. And so we can get a little fanatical sometimes.

Just try and keep yourselves in check. Find the humor in shit that isnt life altering. This is only entertainment, so find the entertainment in it. Like fucking with people who take things to far, and get too serious. Life is crazy with assholes taking shit too seriously, and this is an escape from it at times. We dont need things like that here do we?

Anyway my pimp hand is feeling strong these days. Recognize.

But the thing is Slash is not the villian and slash even admited in an older interview he fucked up big time.
Yes they are all to blame but slash even claimed sometimes he didnt  put 100% effort into the band.

Also slash refused to go near a lot of the stuff axl wanted to try, so how is that Axls fault.  The only reason people tend to believe slash is because he keeps saying it, while axl does not do interviews that often, so people tend to take slashs side, even tho he keeps changing his mind what really happened.

No, the reason people are so up in arms about this comment is because its simply not true and slash is saying he knows for a fact. Slash is flat out lying, and that is why people are calling slash on this.  If axl made up a lie about slash, axl would be getting bashed for 20 pages, calling him an asshole and  a prick.
So why is it when slash tells a lie and says its a fact he does not have to answer for it?

How am i blinded? I am just curious.  And how is what slash said here a fact? Slash is the ONLY person who has said axl only has 2 songs done with vocals for CD, yet for about 10 other sources since 2000 axl has had atleast 2 albums done of material with vocals?  Also tell me this, how can slash not be a liar if his stories of what happened keep changing?  Answer me those simple questions.

Dave dave dave...i was just trying to smooth shit out around here.


...ah well fuck it.

Exactly, and that is what you did. You gave your side of the story, and when people disagreed and tried to argue with it, you said we are taking this too seriously.

If you don't want to be a part of the discussion, fine. No one is forcing you to respond to this thread.

I think this whole debate just shows the sad state of the band right now. We spend more time on this board talking about what Slash/Duff have to say about GNR than we do talking about the actual music. I guess that is because they refuse to give us music or anything to talk about, but it sucks either way.

do you really think that you bitching about it on some message board is really gonna stick it to him or something? i dont understand how he's "answering for it" in any way by you calling him a liar? he doesnt even know who you are. nor would he care.

i dont understand why you feel personally compelled to bitch about him. i also like how you "cant be bothered" to look for any quotes where people start bashing axl after he said something bad about slash. where are the 20 page threads dude? the mystical land of narnia?

Very cool.  : ok:
I think that even though we obviously can't all agree -
that we can keep things in check with the right mixture of
respect and humour

the humour is basically built in
just add water... Uh, I mean respect  : ok:
and that includes respecting that, despite the element of humour,
that some fans actually care about what happens to and/or what is said about
the musicians/people they are fans of.  Doesn't mean they don't 'have a life'!
I know I do!  But, as a huge fan of Axl's, I care about how he is portrayed /
what is said about him and his work and the new band, etc.  
So if its "all about the music" for you - then that's fine - but respect the fact
that some people/fans care beyond the music.  

 :peace:

( :o sorry for quoting so much text )

Very cool.  : ok:
I think that even though we obviously can't all agree -
that we can keep things in check with the right mixture of
respect and humour

the humour is basically built in
just add water... Uh, I mean respect  : ok:
and that includes respecting that, despite the element of humour,
that some fans actually care about what happens to and/or what is said about
the musicians/people they are fans of.  Doesn't mean they don't 'have a life'!
I know I do!  But, as a huge fan of Axl's, I care about how he is portrayed /
what is said about him and his work and the new band, etc.  
So if its "all about the music" for you - then that's fine - but respect the fact
that some people/fans care beyond the music.  

 :peace:

( :o sorry for quoting so much text )


Shit its cool babe. Thats why I said what I said about being a fan (its in one of those quotes you put up). Im a fan too obviously, and my loyalties (however one wants to take that) is more with Axl, because I appreciate the change he is trying to do, and has sacrificed to do it. I think some look at that very one demensionally, and cant see what that can represent, musically (it is all too similar the revelation and changes the Beatles made (though theres was as a collective) and just Axl had this foresight. Shit, this isnt the place to get into it.

I guess what im saying is that of course I agree because its what I had just said (about being a fan).

I still dig Slash, but have to call things as I see it. Anyway, but some get so heated with the pointing fingers, that I think they need to chill out, and put this into perspective. But this is a GNR board, and last I checked Axl is still in the band finishing this bitch up. So when somone comes here with misguided anger and disdain for the man, this is certaintly the wrong place for it, and comes across as obnoxious. As I am sure going to a VR board and calling Slash a punk bitch would be there. Its innapropriate dialog to have with fans of the man.

That is something people need to recognize to. Its kind of annoying. Im just trying to do my thing, because its friday. And I got shit to do tomorrow.

Maybe it's possible that the truth lies between what Slash said and what some others, like Brian May, have said.  Is it totally impossible to imagine only two songs being finished?  I think it's very possible only two songs are completely, 100% finished.  Now, I'm sure there are vocals down on several tracks, but with the way Axl likes to add multiple layers to each song, then maybe he only has two songs completely finished and ready for CD.   And maybe he has others completely finished that are going on the second or third album.  Axl has mentioned before that they wrote songs with in the last couple of years that have pushed some previous ones down the list.  I never would have guessed in 1990 that much of the entire GN'R fan base would be this divided.  With all of this constant debating about Axl being an asshole and Slash being a liar, it's almost hard to believe that at one time we all supported them both and they were able to accomplish as much as they did...

Booker, what year did Marco make those comments? I forgot...

Its no secret that there was a period of time in which there was no vocals on most of the tracks. Im curious to know when Marco said that.


Can I see that quote. I never seen that before....
Theres a difference between perfecting vocals and not having vocals.

If you think Axl Rose is ranting and saying stuff just to seem "cool" then you know jack shit about Axl.


Booker posted the exact dialougue. Its not liek Axl went on a cursing tirade towards Slash. But whatver this is a dead topic now so theres no point to go back and forth.

Youngun, Beltrami recorded or worked on the Gnr material in 2002! The interview was 11 months ago but he is talking about a release for the album in Sept 02..before the US Tour. Don't let Booker fool you. A little distortion...Booker, any comments? That is a fact. But, it also shows you the ludicrous amount of time it has taken to release this record.  :o

2003.


It's just a rumor (Chris Thompson is a singer that I know) And yes, I know there's a difference... but he said that he was having a hard time with it... He said this after Christmas... no, I don't have a quote - because I was there, and I overheard him say it to a group of people...


Like Dizzy said, Axl really does give a shit about what they think because otherwise he wouldn't try to get people on his side.

"marco Beltrami: That was sort of just work for hire. I guess they'd heard
some of my orchestral music of mine. I met with Axl and he played me these songs, asked me my ideas about them, and I told him what I thought they needed.
They gave me four songs to orchestrate. A couple of them I did more than orchestrating, I actually wrote some melodies and stuff. It was a fun project. I really enjoyed it. The music was eclectic and at the time that I was doing it there were no lyrics on the songs that I was working on. People ask me about the album and I really have no idea about the release. I thought it was coming out last September. I'm the wrong person to ask about that. "


So because the few songs Axl had Marco work on had no vocal track on it means that axl only has 2 songs with vocals? How do you figure that?

I say we just drop it. Who cares what SLash says. What he said really wasnt the thing that pissed me off. It was a whole other issue. But fuck it. Look how pathetic this thread is.
Back and forth everyone defending everyone. SO I say fuck it. Ill be a good lil soldier and let SLash say what he wants and at the end when GNR release the album ill have a nice lil smirk on my face.

Didn't slash say on the stern show that the last time he talked to axl was when he quit the band ?

Kind of a strong statement to say he knows for a fact about the vocals (i'm not sure the band knows how many finished songs there are).

In slash's defense, i don't think he ever goes out of his way to say anything bad about axl.  Sometimes when answering questions about the old band it's interpreted that he's saying something negative when he's just trying to give his point of view.

I've said it before, if during the period of 96 thru 2004, axl had gone to slash, duff and matt and said he was ready to put the bullshit aside, they would have jumped at the chance to put out a record.  i'm still not convinced, given VR's success, that they wouldn't still like to put GNR back together.  I think it's still the reason they hold back on their comments (aside from matt).   I don't think they want to burn their bridges and for the most part hold their tongue suprisingly well.

That weird logic again.
First, if Beltrami worked on songs without vocals, it wouldn't mean there are no finished tracks, nobody said that. It only means that there is no proof that they have cpmpleted songs. Maybe they have, but gave the incomplete ones to Beltrami, maybe they don't have completed songs, only a few.

Second. Like all of you can realize, English isn't my mother tongue. But what does 'couple' mean? As far as I know it can mean a pair, like 2 songs, and it can mean a few, like 6-8 songs. Correct me, if I'm wrong.

Third. I haven't heard the Brian May interview, but did he say he had heard finished tracks with vocals, or he said he heard an album worth of vocal melodies/ideas? It's not the same.

Fourth. I really wonder why the album hasn't finished. And if it was finished, why the hell it's not released? If Axl sometimes released at least a press release about the state of CD, there would be less bullshit about the album.

Besides Axl not wanting his lyrics out. If he gave a song to Marco without lyrics wouldnt marco be able to interupt the song better and come up with better arrangements and melodies to fit. if the songs had lyrics and were 100 complete he wouldnt be able to contribute much. I think Axl gave him some "bare tracks" to see what he could work out.

I think slash is a great artist and everything but when it comes down to axl and his buisness,then who cares what he says.

Here's my 2 cents worth.

Perhaps this information was made available to Slash and Duff through their lawsuit against Geffen/Universal; in regards to Geffen/Universal releasing the "Greatest Hits" album.

It's a known fact that Geffen/Universal released the album as a means to claw back some of the 13 million dollars that Mr. Rose has spent on his "yet" unreleased project.

Geffen/Universal needed some grounds to back up their case, maybe this tidbit of info was just that.

Again, this is spectulation. Nevertheless, I believe that for Slash to make a comment such as that, (and knowing that Rolling Stone mag would publish it) he must have some source of information.

Later,

Blair



 

awesome dead horse!

that is very possible in my opinion, they had to show why they wanted to release it, gave out that info, and no one could argue with it

good job!

Well when Rolling Stone went go interview Axl a few years ago, they only heard instrumentals, no vocals.

Maybe when they were interviewing Slash they mentioned that and thats where Slash got his info.

To me its bullshit because of the number of people who have heard the material and the fact that the boston promo has 3 studio songs on it. CD,blues and Maddy.

I think SLash is a few years late with his info.

I dont think that is right, I thought the interviewer said only oklhoma didnt have vocals.  I thought the rest did.

i gotta go back and read the article..you could be correct

Imagine Led Zeppelin's Physical Graffiti remixed by Beck and Trent Reznor, and you'll have some sense of Axl's new sound.

Song after song combines the edgy hard rock force and pop smarts of vintage Guns N Roses with surprisingly modern and ambitious music textures. In addition to the album's almost grungy title track, tentative song titles include ''Catcher in the Rye,'' ''I.R.S,'' ''The Blues'' and ''TWAT,'' which he says stands for ''there was a time.''


I guess you're right

 How many songs on IRS demo CD was said to have vocals on?  

It's kinda funny, RNRIII the new GN'R were supposed to return *next time* and play some NEW songs. Buckethead left (at-least that was the excuse) and the *next time* never happend  ;)

That -Ryhiad- song, i always thought it sounded unfinished. It was in a demo state maybe.

Didn't Izzy used to write all the best songs anyway? maybe they should get Izzy back  :) - ...and get Buckethead back too  : ok:

IMO Axl wrote the best songs.
coma, civil war, estranged, breakdown, locomotive,  nov rain, etc etc plus axl wrote a lot of the lyircs on AFD even tho people think it was mostly izzy

I am not an expert on who wrote what, although my fav GN'R song list differs from yours. My top GN'R tracks would go something like:

Nightrain, Think About You, You`re Crazy, Paradise City, Rocket Queen, Don't Cry, Perfect Crime, Double Talkin' Jive, The Garden, 14 Years, Estranged, The Blues, Madagascar...  : ok:


Civil War never really done much for me  :)

One thing all GNR fans know is that Axl won't sing during the writing process. He does'nt sing a note until he gets finished music to work with. It's always been that way.

If the music is still evolving it would make sense for him not to have done much singing.

Yes and all that was true during one peroid of time with this band.

But as Stinson has recently said...
"There are just so many little aspects that are being finalized on that record that every once in a while someone will go, 'God, I just realized you hit a bad note in this one place. We just found it.' And I'll go in and sort it out.
Stinson added that he thinks the record is finally almost done, and the only thing that's holding back its completion is legal issues.

Other than the legalities, Im sure there a good possibility Axl is just tinkering with some stuff. But if there werent any vocals, Stinson would have said it in that article. Period

that is in no way true. If there were no vocals there is NO WAY stinson would dare say otherwise. that would be like betraying axl. also, "only thing holding back its completion is legal issues"... this could mean a lot of things. it could, for instance, mean that once axl fixes his legal issues he can focus on completing the album by recording his vocals and mixing the album. it does in no way imply that he is "just tinkering" with it.

this isn't a 63 chevy that you tinker with on weekends.

If that was the issue, he would have said it. Just like Goldstein said the vocals werent done back in like 2000.

 He might have an album done, I'm sure he's got hundreds of poems written by now, but still it's likely when he phones the studio up to hear what they are rehearsing, he's not singing along. As for stinson, why would he say axl has done no vocals if he was'nt asked?

He  obiviously was asked about the state of CD and his work with GNR. Hence the explanation of why CD isnt out yet. His answer was Axl is a perfectionist and the legalities aspect.

If there werent any vocals down he would have said it.

But WHY would he say that ? What would be his motivation? That would only harm his bandmate, why would he do that.

Slash may got some inside information that we don't know about, BUT (and this is a big one) we, the hardcore idiots usually know just as much as the actual GNR band members. I think Slash would be one of the last persons on this planet to actually know what's going on with the new GNR. He would certainly not be able to get information that we (and the rest of the band) don't know about from Axl Rose. So where does this so called "information" of his come from?

There's only one "passage way" for Slash to get this info, and that is from the record label. Geffen. That's the only way for Slash to get information from Axl's camp. Slash has personally admitted he doesnt know anyone in the band (except Dizzy) and Axl have stated himself that he's replaced "every single thing" since the old GNR fell to pieces.

So in my opinion, even if Slash says "I know this for a fact", I'm not beliving it for one second. When the current band members doesnt know everything, why would Slash know more than them?

Go back to talk about stuff you know Slash. New GNR are a mystery. Especially to you.

Because he doesnt need to lie? How would it harm Axl? If the vocals arent done, they arent done. theres nothing to hide.

If there were no vocals down by now, Axl would have a much bigger problem on his hands other than the vocals. He would have no band.

 And he did'nt, but he also did'nt say a thing about vocals being done or not.

 Axl employs all of the band members, they get paid if the album is done or not, however at least one defector has surfaced so far, buckethead, although it sounds like his contract has him bound to the band no matter what. So again, not an issue.

Perhaps from people who have worked with Axl, the music community is pretty small in L.A.

You are kidding me right? Not one note for this album has leaked out and Axl has had everyone involved sign a confidentiality paper saying they cant say anything about this album to anyone, so you really think someone in this project, all whom Axl trusts with his life?s work will really talk to slash and tell him only a couple songs have vocals. I don?t think so.

Yeah because people don't talk, as long as it's off camera or tape I'm sure alot of people have said things.

Here is one more point.
Axl is a smart guy and I am sure the vocal tracks are on a seperate DAT track just incase a song leaks out, they will not have vocals.  That way the vocals will be added in last in the mixing process.  

Auugh!   It doesn't matter if he heard it from someone.
It doesn't matter if that someone is someone who might have access to studio recordings
The point is that That is NOT KNOWING something for a FACT!  

For starters the only way to know something like this FOR A FACT would be through FIRST HAND KNOWLEGE

and even if Slash himself walked into the fucking studio or into Geffen's vaults or wherever the fuck they keep studio recordings and listened to X amount of tracks with his own ears and only two songs had vocals on them - THAT STILL WOULD NOT MEAN THAT VOCALS DON'T EXIST elsewhere on other tracks

and it doesn't even matter (to this arguement) whether they DO OR NOT.
what I take issue with is his saying HE KNOWS FOR A FACT

even if he has a hundred reliabe sources that have heard only a couple of songs with vocals - that does not justify his saying what he said.

Here's a phrase Slash shoulld learn:  "As far as I know"

When Slash said this he went out of his way (so to speak) by making a point to ADD it after his comment

Someone brought up in this thread earlier about that engineer that posted about hearing X amount of tracks with only scratch vocals...

um.. so fucking what!?

it does not mean that those tracks were there for the sole purpose of working on instrumentals....  and that the vocal tracks are locked in some fucking vault


AND if vocals are not finished - STILLL SO WHAT

the problem with what Slash said is that he knows for a fact

and we can argue this til we are all fucking 80 years old

slash claims to have factual knowlege about the new GN'R CD.

I can' t prove that he doesn't
so whoever wants to believe him and believe what he said is true
enjoy.

I just had to reply to the "maybe he heard something" issue being raised for the umpteenth time in this thread.

Hearing something - even something TRUE does not mean that you can make the statement that he made.

ONLY is a very specific exclusive term

to KNOW whether ONLY applies he would have to have knowledge about EVERY track that exists.

Im-fuckin- possible, in my opinion... which yeah its a contradiction...
so let me say EXTREMELY HIGHLY WITH A 99.9% probability unlikely  ;D




 

Here we go, from Axl himself:
 http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=28

oh so are we saying that this is how Slash knows for fact?

Axl is Slash's source
mystery solved

In this interview Axl said he writes the vocals last
so what are we saying?
that there are no lyrics either?  ;D

He also said he was doing vocals.

You guys are way hostile, did anyone mention that, none of what you said was what i inteneded. I happened to be reading that interview just then and saw that. AFAIC, Mystery solved, Axl has vocals recorded.

I never said slash knew anything for a fact, I just said if he heard anything it probably came from people who worked with axl at some point, because the L.A. music scene is not that big.

AxlRosette, you need to relax and read before you snap. : ok:

I read what you posted.  You posted an article.  
You didn't say anything about the article.
so how could i be saying anything about what you said? (cuz you didn't say anyything)
my comments were not directed at you - so how am i hostile?
i am not hostile
i just have a quck wit  ;D

and i'm having a fine relaxing time  :peace:
hope you are too  :D

edited:  "I'm about three-quarters of the way through, and it's a very difficult process for me."

this is the part you are talking about?

i see  : ok:

i didn't think that was a point of dicussion since whenever anyone talks about how there definitely were vocals done (for example when Brian May heard them) someone always says oh well even if there were vocals they were probably scrapped....

sorry i missed your intended point
(but that is because you didn't say anything! )
its all right though...i gotcha now
 :peace:

If I misunderstood you, I apologize.

But yeah, that's the part, I just included the rest of Axl's responce because I thought it was a cool explaination as to why he is working the way he is, making sure the music is so good that it challenges him to do his best.

i think we need to remember that the old gnr was a band of assholes.  then they got way too famous, way too quickly and became very rich assholes.  axl has lied about cd being released or closed to finished.  who knows if he meant to or not but he has.  and just about every old band member has said something shitty about axl because they are all a bunch of rich cry babies who wish they were still famous.  let's face it VR isn't going to have anything close to the impact, sales, or crowds that gnr had back in the day.  the only people buying that record are old gnr fans and old stp fans.  that band is not going to bring any young listeners in, because the music simply sounds like its ten years old already.  and if that's what you like, then fine.

long story short, i can't believe anything slash says because all he's done is talk shit about axl since he left.  and axl has talked plenty of shit about slash too, so clearly these guys are not on the same level anymore.  i would be shocked out of my mind if slash actually knew anything about the production of CD.  everyone who has been associated with this band acts like a child.  it's pretty sad that the only way slash can get any press is when he talks shit about axl.  because he knows no one will ever remember him for being "VR guitarist slash"  they'll always remember him as being "former gnr guitarist slash."  they're all a bunch of spoiled rich fucks who have no idea how to act normal, live normal or conduct themselves in a normal way and that includes axl.  

the fucking album will come out when it comes out.  it's really sick that the "fans" of this band have resorted to fighting over the words of a singer and a guitar player who parted ways nearly ten years ago.  who cares???  i'm sick of waiting for CD too, but there's better things to do with my time then give a shit what former members have to say about projects that they aren't even involved with.

Dave, that's fucking true

who cares who wrote what lyrics on afd

use your illusion lyrics are muchdeeper and better than anything off afd


damn everytime i read that inteview about what c.d. sounds like i just keep wondering

why the fuck wont he release it!!!!!!!!!!!

only one man knows the truth:
AXL ROSE

Sooo many posts over one little issue...

LYRICS or NO LYRICS? - I like to think that there are lots of lyrics and CD is 97% finished & will be released soon : ok:

-

It makes no sense to work on an album for 10+ years simply to knock out the lyrics in a day  ;)

_______________________________________________________________
GET REAL - THERE ARE LYRICS WRITTEN. SLASH WAS JUST WANTING ATTENTION!

For a few years now Slash has said about the new Guns that he'd just like Axl to release the thing, or that he doesn't want to talk about the new GN'R really all that much, but never anything too critisizing (sp?)... Now if for the 1000th time a reporter goes and askes the same stupid question about GN'R, something's gonna slip out. The whole thing's been blown out of proportion.

But here's what I don't get:

If in an interview a bandmember has said, that the only thing dragging the project from a release is a bunch of legal issues, why is this thing even an issue...?

the fucking album will come out when it comes out.  it's really sick that the "fans" of this band have resorted to fighting over the words of a singer and a guitar player who parted ways nearly ten years ago.  who cares???  i'm sick of waiting for CD too, but there's better things to do with my time then give a shit what former members have to say about projects that they aren't even involved with.

Best post on this thread.

Here's a thought... CD will be a collection of sounds with only a few songs featuring ACTUAL lyrics. That way during any future gigs, Axl can appear on stage for about 1 out of every 4 songs performed, thus ensuring no voice blow out senarios  :yes:


Future gig sernario:

The intro movie thing...
Welcome to the Jungle [feat. lyrics]
Solo - Dizzy
Solo - Buckethead
Solo - Buckethead + Robin
----a bit of a break to re-arrange the stage
Madagascar [feat. lyrics]
Solo - Robin
Solo - Drum that is...
Solo - Buckhead throwing his sticks about
Speach - [feat. Axl] ...this can change depentant on mood swings - speech/rant  ;)
The Blues [feat. lyrics]
----another break to re-arrange the stage for the 2nd time
Solo - 2nd Drum solo
Solo - 3rd Buckethead Solo
Solo - 1st solo from Stinton
Paradise City - [feat lyrics]
----3rd break of the night
encore - new song to end night on, feat maybe afew lyrics  ;)

---shows over---

 :smoking:



 

Good post to ask the moderators to lock the thread.

i can't believe some here are actually defending slash's position. Goes to show you that even the most moronic of comments by a half wit guitarist will delude others into absorbing his baseless tripe.

We have six new gnr songs with lyrics. If anyone seriously believes that these have not been recorded, they are mad. If anyone seriously believes there are not others that have been recorded (with lyrics) then they are just as mad. Fifteen million dollars doesn't just pay for Cola Cola and Jelly Beans and Blockbuster movie rentals. I guarentee that the label kept tabs on how the money was spent over the last eight or so years; it's business. If axl was investing it in his house, then there would be lawyers sicked on him.

Slash was speaking out of line and without first hand knowledge of what was true. He should practice saying 'no comment ' for a change and back up his notions that he has moved on; perhaps he borrowed the Sweet Child riff too many times on Contraband to completely cut the chord.

I wasn't going to bother posting inthis thread, but seeing how it got 200+replies already I couldn't resist the temptation...

Sorry if this has been posted already (  I wasn't gonna go through 12 pages...) who cares what Slash says? Isn't he involved in another project? How would he know? Does he have an insider in GNR? Maybe Chris Pittman?

I don't give Slash any credibility regarding this issue. None, nada.

:rofl:

:yes:
its that simple
 : ok:

Just came from the supermarket.  Duff is featured in Bass Guitar magazine.

Duff (on the songwriting process in GN'R)

"We wrote the music without Axl."

...and the hits just keep on coming!

IF they wrote the music without Axl then how did Axl hear that opening riff to SCOM and love it and make sure it showed up on AFD?

Wow more bullshit, gotta love it


Here is DUFF quote about writing songs for AFD.

DUFF: If one person brings in a song to this band, it always gets raped by the other four people. It always gets changed around to where its Guns N' Roses.

I think he means 3 other people if axl was never there  :rofl:

Of course they did   ::)

I think Duff must have been drunk. Or perhaps referring to post 1993 GNR when the guys were writing their own stuff, and Axl writing his?

im sure there were songs that duff,slash and izzy were sittin around jammin and after they got finished axl got the music to write lyrics to


axl doesnt play really any instrument but piano, so songs that had no piano im sure axl didnt pick up a guitar and say here ya go slash try this guitar melody

so the songs like dont damn me, im sure they wrote the music axl got the music and wrote lyrics for it

its not that he didnt hear the music he just didnt create it

I agree. One thing to add: Axl's piano playing improved a lot by trying to make NR perfect. He wasn't really good earlier, on the UYI tour he played really good, and I have a feeling that he's now better than ever.

So you think it would not bi posible thet he would show Slash a melody on a piano and than ask him to play it on a guitar

not for a heavy song

and he already credited slash for estranged so i seriously doubt it

Look... I've been in bands for many years now.  Every band I have been in is the same.... the musicians write the music, and the singer writes the lyrics and main vocal melody.  Then they all suggest stuff to each other in rehearsal.  Stop trying to glorify anything Axl did into anything more than he did.  What Axl did was an integral part of GnR and without him, yes GnR, would not have been the band it was... however, without any of them, GnR would not have been the band it was.  They all played a massive role and no one here has ANY right... not at all, to take that away from them.  If Duff says they wrote the music without Axl, he means the band wrote the music, and the singer (Axl) didn't.  Hearing a guitar part and saying how cool it is, it should be on the album, is NOT writing!

Fuck sake... I hate when people who know shit about it, start talking about music and writing etc....

I do not argue your point that 'hearing a guitar part and saying how cool it is, it should be on the album, is NOT wriitng.

Further I TOTALLY AGREE that no one here has ANY right... not at all, to take (credit for their contributions) away from them.

and to take that a step further - no one INCLUDING THE BAND MEMBERS - should take credit away from the other band members for their contributions.

Even IF Axl ONLY came up with meodlies, to simply say that they "wrote the music without Axl" is not an accurate or fair statement.  

You don't need to be a professional musician or otherwise to understand that the melody is an integral part of the music writing process.

And that is NOT to say that Axl's contribution composition wise was limited to the vocal melody.  I cite it because that aspect of his contribution (so far) has not been challenged (in this discussion).

Duff's statement (at the very least) was oversimplified and misleading.

He also says that they had to "make a drummer out of Steven"

I think that is taking something away from Steven, IMHO.

I think everyone knows that it doesn't really matter who wrote any of the songs.Anyone can write a song but it takes more than one person to make the songs great.November Rain was on Illusion 1 credited to Axl Rose,but as we see on the Greatest Hits it's credited to more than just Axl.Most likely the band,all of the member had ideas that worked in that song,just like VR and GN'R,not just 1 person really writes the songs.That's just what I think :smoking: