Title: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs and .. Post by: dave-gnfnr2k on September 13, 2004, 11:15:01 PM why are scotts song on contaband? not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs and the ones we have heard from CD are?
This always puzzled me. Any good legit answers? Both write about their problems yet there seems to be a double standard. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: killingvector on September 13, 2004, 11:29:02 PM scott has this whole 'woe is me, i'm an addict' whereas axl has this 'i'm an abused, tortured soul'? ?
I personally can identify with axl more than scott who has screwed himself over moretimes than not. The emotional problems that axl is dealing are quite deep and not easily solved. I feel for the guy. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Top-Hatted One on September 13, 2004, 11:36:55 PM I think Scott's problems are a lot more serious. I know Axl was abused but that was sooo long ago
Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: dave-gnfnr2k on September 13, 2004, 11:39:21 PM I think Scott's problems are a lot more serious. I know Axl was abused but that was sooo long ago Child abuse scars are something? that never heals and that was not axls fault, also axl is bi polar, another thing axl cannot help. Scotts problems, ie drug and alchol are from his own doing.? So how is drug and alchol abuse more serious than someone who is bi polar and was abused as a child? So you are telling me being a junkie and drunk is more serious than having been abused as a child? Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: killingvector on September 13, 2004, 11:41:56 PM At least an alcoholic or drug addict can seek help, quit the habit, and escape from the abyss. Someone who was abused can never put those demons to rest; they must live with them forever. It is a tough hand to play with; axl has not recovered from the abuse and neglect.
Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: younggunner on September 13, 2004, 11:45:12 PM Quote I think Scott's problems are a lot more serious. I know Axl was abused but that was sooo long ago lol, are you kidding? Scotts problems are addictions. Axls problems are things he cant control. Im not going to pretend to know about Axls mental health, because in the grand scheme of things, hes healthy but he has issues. First off, any type of abuse could be traumatising, no matter how long ago it is. It has so many trickle down effects asd you live life you cant even imagine.... They both have thier issues. Its not really abouts whos are worse. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Booker Floyd on September 14, 2004, 12:03:31 AM Despite my reluctance to participate in what is really just one of Daves countless childish, whiny "Maddy wipes the floor with..."-style thread, I think I can help answer this question.
Quote why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs and the ones we have heard from CD are? Of course it depends on who youre asking, but common sense tells me that Axls UYI songs werent called self-indulgent because of their personal subject matter, but because they were 6-to-10 minutes long with string sections, choirs, synthesizers, sound effects, etc. Yes, thats why you think those songs are great, but if you want to know why critics called them self-indulgent, there it is. Why arent Contrabands songs self-indulgent? Because theyre relatively raw, short and straightforward. Simple enough? Self-indulgence is Weilands work on 12 Bar Blues, which certainly compares to Axls. Quote also axl is bi polar, another thing axl cannot help So is Scott. His problems are a little deeper than just addiction... Quote They both have thier issues. Its not really abouts whos are worse. A surprisingly on-point statement. : ok: Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: killingvector on September 14, 2004, 12:10:26 AM Good post booker. I agree with you. ;)
Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Top-Hatted One on September 14, 2004, 12:17:26 AM yes and it's a fact that Scott is bipolar and has been his entire life.
I guess you're right about never forgetting the abuse but I also don't think people who were abused 30 years ago think about it every day of their lives. Scott problably has energies to go back to using heroin all the time because as they say heroin addiction never goes away. Right now Scott really seems to be controlling his addiction. I don't think he's gone this long without slipping in years. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: dave-gnfnr2k on September 14, 2004, 12:17:57 AM That?s funny booker since I didn?t say maddy is better than anything, I just used it as an example of people calling it self indulgent yet a song like falling to pieces is not.
As for the strings and all that other making the song self indulgent, so are zepplins songs self indulgent, is bohemian rhapsody, one of the best songs ever, self indulgent, are the beatles songs that do this self-indulgent? Just because an album or song is not raw does not make it self-indulgent. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: killingvector on September 14, 2004, 12:25:50 AM yes and it's a fact that Scott is bipolar and has been his entire life. I guess you're right about never forgetting the abuse but I also don't think people who were abused 30 years ago think about it every day of their lives. Scott problably has energies to go back to using heroin all the time because as they say heroin addiction never goes away. Right now Scott really seems to be controlling his addiction. I don't think he's gone this long without slipping in years. As someone who has suffered from abuse, not parental but another kind, when they were young, I can tell you that it affects my life every day. It is not something of which I consciously think but it has effected the person that I am today. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Top-Hatted One on September 14, 2004, 12:27:30 AM the only gnr song that was self indulgent was "My World" because Axl had complete control over that song and it really wasn't necessary. i don't have a problem with his lyrics. He wrote the lyrics to those songs..you can't fault him for expressing himself
Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Oddy on September 14, 2004, 12:31:37 AM dave and booker you guys seriously need to settle your differences.
don't you realize you two will always disagree? you have different unchangeable viewpoints on a subject. i suggest you get in a boxing ring, play ping pong, play chess, i dunno have have a running race because you will never come to a resolution. see at least if you guys verse each other in a chess game......there's a winner......and a loser. this constant arguing you guys never get anywhere. i dunno Booker i thought you would be smart enough to realize not to respond in these threads since you know 100% that you will disagree with it just by looking at who started it. Cumon' you were almost there and then you just had to go ahead and click on it and start writing. ah well atleast you tried : ok: Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: younggunner on September 14, 2004, 12:35:49 AM Quote Because theyre relatively raw Theres nothing raw about CB.Quote Scott problably has energies to go back to using heroin all the time because as they say heroin addiction never goes away. Right now Scott really seems to be controlling his addiction. I don't think he's gone this long without slipping in years. Im not saying adddictions are nothing and shouldnt be taken seriosuly. But with addicitons its all about choice and basic control....when you have mental health problems or have been abused, those are things you cannot control or chose to be involved with. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: dave-gnfnr2k on September 14, 2004, 12:36:03 AM dave and booker you guys seriously need to settle your differences. don't you realize you two will always disagree? you have different unchangeable viewpoints on a subject. i suggest you get in a boxing ring, play ping pong, play chess, i dunno have have a running race because you will never come to a resolution. see at least if you guys verse each other in a chess game......there's a winner......and a loser. this constant arguing you guys never get anywhere. i dunno Booker i thought you would be smart enough to realize not to respond in these threads since you know 100% that you will disagree with it just by looking at who started it.? Cumon' you were almost there and then you just had to go ahead and click on it and start writing. ah well atleast you tried : ok: First off this thread has NOTHING to do with booker, 2nd this post should have been sent thru PM, and 3rd I think this question is very fair, and its a new topic that has never been discussed and would be something good to talk about. Bookers post would have been fine if not for his first personal statement about me that was not even correct. So lets get back on topic, since? this thread has been good so far. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: younggunner on September 14, 2004, 12:54:01 AM Quote suggest you get in a boxing ring, play ping pong, play chess, i dunno have have a running race because you will never come to a resolution. We should have the first GNR Message board boxing match. That would be great. Tommy wasnt kididng when he said GNr fans are crazy....Booker tends to have a grandiloquent vibe to his posts which tend to irritate,,, me atleast...can say nor do no wrong, calculated type thang.... Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Naupis on September 14, 2004, 01:10:38 AM Both singers are tortured and have a more than checkered past. It is the drugs and illnesses that give them something to sing about and have helped them sell millions of records. Both singers have been hugely successful in life in spite of their problems, for that they deserve an atta boy....not a contest to see who's more fucked up.
Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Falcon on September 14, 2004, 01:19:54 AM It's definately due to song length and overuse of effects and goofy forays into orchestral drivel. Not to mention the videos accompanying those those songs so rightly deemed self indulgent.
12 Bar Blues is the ultimate act of self indulgent, a front man run amok left alone to his own devices. That said, it's a solo record, rightfully used to reflect the artists musical vision.. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Mr Cowbell ? on September 14, 2004, 01:19:55 AM I think Scott's problems are a lot more serious. I know Axl was abused but that was sooo long ago So you are telling me being a junkie and drunk is more serious than having been abused as a child? With that being said I can relate more to Axl's songs through. Scott's lyrics dont flow or really tell a good story, they are a good collection of thoughts, but I just prefer the story in Axl's and thats just my opinion Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: dave-gnfnr2k on September 14, 2004, 01:30:07 AM I think Scott's problems are a lot more serious. I know Axl was abused but that was sooo long ago So you are telling me being a junkie and drunk is more serious than having been abused as a child? With that being said I can relate more to Axl's songs through. Scott's lyrics dont flow or really tell a good story, they are a good collection of thoughts, but I just prefer the story in Axl's and thats just my opinion You are missing the point. You can help being a junkie or drunk. Just dont drink or do drugs. And being a junkie or drunk you got that way on your own, you started doing that crap, where as being abused as a child is something you have no control over, and like i said those scars are with you forever. I am still waiting for somethign to answer my analogy with those beatles, queen and zepplin songs and axls songs being self-indulgent. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Oddy on September 14, 2004, 01:37:33 AM sorry dave it wasn't an attack on you, its just that these sorts of threads always end up being around 60% argument between you two guys about stuff off the topic of the thread.
personally i don't relate to scott's lyrics at all. hell i can't even remember any of his lyrics and i listen to contriband a lot. tapeworm abortion or whateva. I only seem to remember the chorus of scott's songs, especially in the rockers his lyrics dont make much sense. I guess its just a different writing style, you either like it or you don't. I think scott has a knack for creating memorable vocal melodies, they're awesome on contraband but the lyrics really let it down. Its all how you interpret them i guess. I mean smells like teen spirit, wtf A mosquito, my libido, an albino? ??? and people consider that song genius. and booker i disagree with your perception of self indulgent. i see self indulgent as a song like, i dunno get in the ring. its more "im gonna kick your ass im the greatest *various metaphores to how much pain you can give someone*. I don't see november rain or estranged as self indulgent simply because they have strings and horns or whatever the hell. i see self indulgent as inflating your ego in a song, making the song revolve around you. ok that could be every song, but you know what i mean. or maybe you don't. :-[ i dunno i'll shut up now. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Top-Hatted One on September 14, 2004, 02:21:05 AM yeah but no everyone turns to drugs because they want to party.
Heroin is Scott's favorite way of medicating himself for bi-polar Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Top-Hatted One on September 14, 2004, 02:23:41 AM read some articles posted about scott being bi-polar at the official stp board. quite fascinating stuff. A lot of Scott's lyrics describe going what it's like going through the low side of bi-polar and how ugly it is.
Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Booker Floyd on September 14, 2004, 09:37:26 AM and booker i disagree with your perception of self indulgent. i see self indulgent as a song like, i dunno get in the ring. its more "im gonna kick your ass im the greatest *various metaphores to how much pain you can give someone*. I don't see november rain or estranged as self indulgent simply because they have strings and horns or whatever the hell. I never really said it was my perception...I think its more common perception among those who do choose to call those songs "self-indulgent". Quote That?s funny booker since I didn?t say maddy is better than anything, I just used it as an example of people calling it self indulgent yet a song like falling to pieces is not. The only self-indulgent thing about "Madagascar" would be the 2-minute quote breakdown, not his lyrics. So what would make "Fall To Pieces" self-indulgent? Personal lyrics do not mean "self-indulgent". Quote As for the strings and all that other making the song self indulgent, so are zepplins songs self indulgent, is bohemian rhapsody, one of the best songs ever, self indulgent, are the beatles songs that do this self-indulgent? To many critics, they are. I wasnt really giving my opinion, just explaining what many critics have pointed out over the years. Quote You are missing the point. You can help being a junkie or drunk. Just dont drink or do drugs. Like many have pointed out, Scott is also bi-polar. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: younggunner on September 14, 2004, 10:35:58 AM Quote The only self-indulgent thing about "Madagascar" would be the 2-minute quote breakdown What is so self- indulgent about the quotes?Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Booker Floyd on September 14, 2004, 10:57:20 AM Quote The only self-indulgent thing about "Madagascar" would be the 2-minute quote breakdown What is so self- indulgent about the quotes?One could certainly argue (as I have before) that using Martin Luther Kings speech in a song (especially one that appears more personal than social) is more than a little pretentious. But aside from that, agree or not, theres probably many people who find 2-minute quote breakdowns such as that to be self-indulgent nonsense. If you dont agree, then you dont agree. Theres not much more to say. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Naupis on September 14, 2004, 11:06:11 AM I also find using Dr. King's I have a dream speech about the civil rights struggles of an entire race of people as some sort of parrallel to some infighting between band members to be a little ridiculous. The lines they use may be fitting within the context of what he is trying to say, but that speech is sacred in this country and it almost belittles it putting it in a song where all he is singing about is how everyone hates him and he is not gonna take anymore. I like the song alot but it could have done without those samples. Especially using something as historically important as the MLK speech to whine about how your old band and everyone hates you.
Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: mikegiuliana on September 14, 2004, 11:27:25 AM Fall to pieces, one song going on when he joined the group, afd was basically an album about problems
Maybe with axl it's because it's about his relationships and the songs are massive productions.. mr brownstone=drugs scom=relationship I love those songs, i think it's more about those huge piano ballads, to me it took away from the group.. If axl was a regular guy and released music frequently and wasn't in seclusion all the time he wouldn't get such bothering.. When someone has time on their hands and has the same songs to think abou they find faults.. Things get boring, and you tend to see the negatives.. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: oldleadbelly on September 14, 2004, 01:18:07 PM dave, I'll answer your question about the beatles, zep, etc. Yes, a lot of the work by these bands is EXTREMELY self-indulgent. The beatles often claimed to have the answer to the world's problems in their songs, and Bohemian by Queen is a bloated rock opera all by itself--shamelessly self-important. In fact, that's what Queen was going for in that song...something larger than life. Here's the problem dave, you equate self-indulgent to bad. Though the songs and bands I just mentioned are self-indulgent, I love every one of them. They are rock masterpieces. Sure some critics give off a negative connotation when they call axl self-indulgent, but who cares. Be happy with the music you like. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. You don't constantly have to take up for GNR and Axl, they will be fine on their own. Once again, Self-indulgent does not equal bad.
Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: dave-gnfnr2k on September 14, 2004, 06:07:34 PM dave, I'll answer your question about the beatles, zep, etc.? Yes, a lot of the work by these bands is EXTREMELY self-indulgent.? The beatles often claimed to have the answer to the world's problems in their songs, and Bohemian by Queen is a bloated rock opera all by itself--shamelessly self-important.? In fact, that's what Queen was going for in that song...something larger than life.? Here's the problem dave, you equate self-indulgent to bad.? Though the songs and bands I just mentioned are self-indulgent, I love every one of them.? They are rock masterpieces.? Sure some critics give off a negative connotation when they call axl self-indulgent, but who cares.? Be happy with the music you like.? It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.? You don't constantly have to take up for GNR and Axl, they will be fine on their own.? Once again, Self-indulgent does not equal bad. Well people tend to use the term self-indulgent as a knock not a compliment, so i was just wondering. And Im not constantly taking up for gnr and axl, i was just asking a question to get a good convo going. Because on these boards there are many double standards. But thanks for a good answer. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: badgirl on September 14, 2004, 07:09:25 PM I also find using Dr. King's I have a dream speech about the civil rights struggles of an entire race of people as some sort of parrallel to some infighting between band members to be a little ridiculous. The lines they use may be fitting within the context of what he is trying to say, but that speech is sacred in this country and it almost belittles it putting it in a song where all he is singing about is how everyone hates him and he is not gonna take anymore. I like the song alot but it could have done without those samples. Especially using something as historically important as the MLK speech to whine about how your old band and everyone hates you. :hihi: true true. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: dave-gnfnr2k on September 14, 2004, 08:27:06 PM So was it bad when Living color in used MLK and JFK quotes in their song cult of peronality?
Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: younggunner on September 14, 2004, 09:30:07 PM If Maddy was played on the radio today, would people get offended by the MLK quotes?....the answer to that is NO. The question wouldnt even come up.
Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: St.heathen on September 14, 2004, 09:35:13 PM Personally i don't know enough about Scott's personal life to be able to judge him or comment on what he has gone through in life.
Since when do you measure up what problems in a persons life are more harming or painful than others? Life can be a fucking bitch ..."oh all his problems are self inflicted" how the fuck do you know? There could be lot's about his life we don't know and it's not really our place to know. At least he has experienced things - emotions, success and fuck ups - as should everyone by the time they are 6ft under. But it all makes song lyrics alot richer - music history shows us that. I don't know if you have tried writting songs. But ideas for songs come from many places. Some are biographical written from experiences, some are fiction maybe sparked by something you have seen. Some are a mix of the two and some are just words you fitted together and they work. You could call any artist self indulgent. If you look at any artists work you can some sort of pattern in what they sing about and alot of rock songs deal with similar topics such as; outsiders, love/hate, desire ect .......some are just words thrown together to fit in with the attitude of the music. Some music ...say someone like PiL or God speed you Black Emperor. Sometimes I can listen to them and it's self indulgent nonsense and does your(my) head in. But other times i can put it on when i'm all mellowed and makes sense and is fucking awsome. So it's very subjective - i know you were probably just wanting another Axl vs Scott argument. But there's simply not one. STP have made some great fucking records with varied themes running through the lyrics and so have GN'R. It's rock n' roll man.....if you analyse every fucking detail then you'll just drain the fun out of it. Just enjoy it if you enjoy it and ignore it if you don't - simple. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: the dirt on September 14, 2004, 09:35:26 PM If Maddy was played on the radio today, would people get offended by the MLK quotes?....the answer to that is NO. The question wouldnt even come up. It actually could... Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: younggunner on September 14, 2004, 10:15:25 PM Quote It actually could... Anything could....But there would be no uprising or questioning baout the way the song uses MLK quotes...only certain gnr fans could come up with somehting liek that.... Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Top-Hatted One on September 15, 2004, 12:05:32 AM Personally i don't know enough about Scott's personal life to be able to judge him or comment on what he has gone through in life.? Since when do you measure up what problems in a persons life are more harming or painful than others?? Life can be a fucking bitch ..."oh all his problems are self inflicted" how the fuck do you know? There could be lot's about his life we don't know and it's not really our place to know.? At least he has experienced things - emotions,? success and fuck ups - as should everyone by the time they are 6ft under.? But it all makes song lyrics alot richer - music history shows us that. I don't know if you have tried writting songs. But ideas for songs come from many places.? Some are biographical written from experiences, some are fiction maybe sparked by something you have seen.? Some are a mix of the two and some are just words you fitted together and they work. You could call any artist self indulgent. If you look at any artists work you can? some sort of pattern in what they sing about and alot of rock songs deal with similar topics such as; outsiders, love/hate, desire ect .......some are just words thrown together to fit in with the attitude of the music.? Some music ...say someone like PiL or God speed you Black Emperor. Sometimes I can listen to them and it's self indulgent? nonsense and does your(my)? head in.? But other times i can put it on when i'm all mellowed and makes sense and is fucking awsome. So it's very subjective - i know you were probably just wanting another Axl vs Scott argument. But there's simply not one.? STP have made some great fucking records with varied themes running through the lyrics and so have GN'R. It's rock n' roll man.....if you analyse every fucking detail then you'll just drain the fun out of it.? Just enjoy it if you enjoy it and ignore it if you don't - simple. ? Great Post! that's what I was trying to say about Axl. You can criticize him for being self-indulgent because lyricists right about whatever they are inspired by at the current time. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Eva GnRAxlRosette on September 15, 2004, 12:13:33 AM "some critics give off a negative connotation when they call axl self-indulgent"
I've never heard a critic use "self indulgent" as a compliment anyway, dave... good thread a lot of great songs are considered "bloated" or "self-indulgent"... some mentioned in this thread when they are just meant to be "huge" or (also as already mentioned in this thread)"larger than life" the answer to the question is that while both scott and axl may write songs that equally qualify for the "self indulgent" nomer... some fans of Scott/VR that resent Axl (for various reasons - ie: blaming him for ruining GN'R etc.) will just simply always criticize whatever he does.. and conversely praise whatever Scott does in VR because then its all that much better to somehow in their mind show that the problem with GN'R was Axl (by saying.. if 3/5th of GN'R suceed as VR with Scott then its Axl who was the problem - that type of thing, know what I mean?) also... while Scott has a rep for being a "bad boy" or "troubled" it is Axl who has been burdened with the "asshole" rep.. so basically for some they will always find fault and things to criticize about whatever he does no matter what Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Mr Cowbell ? on September 15, 2004, 05:45:47 AM [quote author=dave-gnfnr2k link=topic=15270.msg263822#msg263822 You are missing the point.? You can help being a junkie or drunk. Just dont drink or do drugs.
And being a junkie or drunk you got that way on your own, you started doing that crap, where as being abused as a child is something you have no control over, and like i said those scars are with you forever. Quote You are so blind by your love of Axl. How can you sit there and say being a junkie or a drunk is something you can stop from happening. Its a long dark road and that is why people OD and die. Alcoholism has been found in genes and is something that can be passed on. Its a very serious and dark world o fall into, and I am not missing the point, you are, you don't even understand how dangerous those problems can be, go ask Bon Scott or Keith Moon if they think they are serious things. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: darkmonth on September 15, 2004, 08:59:56 AM why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs and the ones we have heard from CD are? This always puzzled me. Any good legit answers? Both write about their problems yet there seems to be a double standard. Well, who gives a fuck? And why bring this shit up? I assume you want to start an Axl vs Scott lyrics flame war. Don't bother. Both of these guys are at the top of their field musically and there is no need to compare coz they are different styles. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: jarmo on September 15, 2004, 09:03:53 AM Both of these guys are at the top of their field musically and there is no need to compare coz they are different styles. You know that this is a GN'R board so maybe you won't find as many Scott fans here as you might on some STP board. If you see Scott being criticized here, it's probabaly because of that. For many people, including me, Scott isn't in the same league as Axl..... /jarmo Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: mikegiuliana on September 15, 2004, 09:49:02 AM So was it bad when Living color in used MLK and JFK quotes in their song cult of peronality? No because the dude was black :hihi: Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Freya on September 15, 2004, 11:14:41 AM Quote I also find using Dr. King's I have a dream speech about the civil rights struggles of an entire race of people as some sort of parrallel to some infighting between band members to be a little ridiculous. That taste in using the quote is questionable. Why do people think Maddy is about the old band? I thought it was partly a song about separating from his family and of course, being alone. When Axl did take all that criticism about OIAM, he did take it seriously enough to go read up on MLK and racism, to his credit. So he probably was genuinely inspired and perhaps trying to make amends. Although, knowing Axl's propensity for a self-centered world view, using the quote in relation to his experience could offend people. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: oldleadbelly on September 15, 2004, 01:51:11 PM Both of these guys are at the top of their field musically and there is no need to compare coz they are different styles. You know that this is a GN'R board so maybe you won't find as many Scott fans here as you might on some STP board. If you see Scott being criticized here, it's probabaly because of that. For many people, including me, Scott isn't in the same league as Axl..... /jarmo Exactly what was the point of posting this jarmo?? I could understand it if he had said something like, "Why are you guys busting on Scott so much?" or, "Damn Axl's voice is so grating, Scott is much better."? But he didn't.? He was simply saying that there is no need for the Axl versus Scott posts.? He showed no preference to either one, and I know a lot of Axl fans who have said the same. Whatever, it's your board, carry on. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: mikegiuliana on September 15, 2004, 01:57:00 PM This topic basically says to me scott should be getting the same shit axl is, this is not fair.. Scott has ONE song and we're already getting a conmparison to someone who has tons of songs... Where does the though even come up?
Also one is talking about the bands third n fourth album, this is vr's first.. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: jarmo on September 15, 2004, 03:37:35 PM Exactly what was the point of posting this jarmo?? I could understand it if he had said something like, "Why are you guys busting on Scott so much?" or, "Damn Axl's voice is so grating, Scott is much better."? But he didn't.? He was simply saying that there is no need for the Axl versus Scott posts.? He showed no preference to either one, and I know a lot of Axl fans who have said the same.? Whatever, it's your board, carry on. I will carry on, don't worry about that. : ok: I was saying this isn't the most neutral VR board on the planet. Most of us are GN'R fans who also like VR. Not VR fans who love Scott..... /jarmo Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: oldleadbelly on September 15, 2004, 04:19:45 PM Exactly what was the point of posting this jarmo?? I could understand it if he had said something like, "Why are you guys busting on Scott so much?" or, "Damn Axl's voice is so grating, Scott is much better."? But he didn't.? He was simply saying that there is no need for the Axl versus Scott posts.? He showed no preference to either one, and I know a lot of Axl fans who have said the same.? Whatever, it's your board, carry on. I will carry on, don't worry about that.? : ok: I was saying this isn't the most neutral VR board on the planet. Most of us are GN'R fans who also like VR. Not VR fans who love Scott..... /jarmo Yeah, I got that much...but still it seems to be a bit out of context. Keep on truckin'. : ok: Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: moreblack on September 15, 2004, 04:30:37 PM Quote For many people, including me, Scott isn't in the same league as Axl..... Quote He doesn't need to be in Axl's league. He's in Scott Weiland's league : ok: Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Butch Français on September 15, 2004, 04:30:47 PM Exactly what was the point of posting this jarmo?? I could understand it if he had said something like, "Why are you guys busting on Scott so much?" or, "Damn Axl's voice is so grating, Scott is much better."? But he didn't.? He was simply saying that there is no need for the Axl versus Scott posts.? He showed no preference to either one, and I know a lot of Axl fans who have said the same.? Whatever, it's your board, carry on. I will carry on, don't worry about that.? : ok: I was saying this isn't the most neutral VR board on the planet. Most of us are GN'R fans who also like VR. Not VR fans who love Scott..... /jarmo so Im at the wrong place? :-\ Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: jarmo on September 15, 2004, 04:54:53 PM so Im at the wrong place? :-\ Depends. If you're here because you think Scott Weiland is a God and you get annoyed when people say he's not, maybe.... :P Just like you won't find the world's biggest Axl supporters at Metal Sludge, you probably won't find the world's biggest Weiland fans on a GN'R board. /jarmo Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: mikegiuliana on September 15, 2004, 05:06:22 PM Quote For many people, including me, Scott isn't in the same league as Axl..... Quote He doesn't need to be in Axl's league. He's in Scott Weiland's league : ok: I agree bother two different singers of two different styles.. Axl is withoiut a doubt my favorite singer and in the top ten as frontmen.. Scott is a different type of guy, his stuff with stp was amazing... I know it wasn't big in other countries but it was huge during the grunge era... I think scott is the best pick for vr, i love the covers he sings, somethimes I feel he is compared to axl a little to much in regards to the covers.. I myself never sat there and went over how axl sang covers over other legends like bob dylan, queen, stones, aero etc.. I love the covers, and I expect axl to sound like axl.. I never sat there and said well he doesn't sound mlike freddy mercury on we will rock you..Two different guys, isn't fair.. I think scott does a great job on use to love her, mr brownstone, and it's so easy.. He makes the songs his own like everyone else that covers a song, the important thing is to listen to a cover as the person who's doing it, not the person they're covering.. If you listen to it's so easy and expect him to sound like axl then you'll never enjoy the songs.. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: tomass74 on September 16, 2004, 02:59:36 AM Ok, I ws trying to refrain from replying to this stupid ass post.? But the ignorance in here is fucking pathetic. Who the fuck is anyone to judge the severity of someone elses issues?? Half of you are probably spoiled little shits that havent seen the? the dark side of life unless you were sniffing someones ass.
Everyone deals with shit differently. I was abused as a kid and I don't go on using it as a cruch throughout my life and I really don't think about it every day. Everyone is dealt a certain hand in life and you gotta live with what you got and that is how I look at things. That's not to say that others that were abused are not tortured everyday of their lives....To sit and watch people that most likely do not know shit argue about what is worse, being abused or being a drug addict really pisses me off. Who the fuck are you?? I have seen that side of things too. My step father died from Heroin, my Mother is a total waste of life because of heroin, I lost a childhood friend, I have battled with Crack and cocaine myself, missed the opportunity to meet my biological father because he died of drugs. You tell me that abuse is more traumatising than drug issues. For me it wasn't....... It's different in every case.. To sit and watch people bicker about to people that you don't really know shit about and argue who's problems are worse is just wrong. I don't use anything in my past as an excuse and frankly don't like to talk about them because I don't want people to think I am looking for sympathy but I just got real pissed off. Anyway, this post is dumb. Why the fuck do you care so much what people think about Axl? And don't act like you thi swas a legit post and you wanted a nice discussion. You do not like VR and the only reason you are here is to stir up crap, fend for Axl, or highlight VR's low points. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: badgirl on September 16, 2004, 09:12:52 AM ^^^^ totally agree. i was thinking that same thing, what the hell do you know about Scott's drug use or Axl's mental/emotional disorders. Oh, because he admitted in an interview that he is bi-polar? suddenly you can speak for his mental state and for the disease? ::)
and newsflash: often times, drug use/abuse are CAUSED by mental/emotional disorders. drugs are used as a way to cope. most healthy, happy, well adjusted people don't go scrounging for the crack pipe. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: dave-gnfnr2k on September 16, 2004, 07:12:30 PM Tomass this post is a legit question but of coarse it?s not bashing axl and instead is asking the same questions of scott that has been asked and said of axl for years on this board.
As for who has the worse problems, no one pretends to know either of them but being abused, as a child is much worse than being a junkie, that was the point that was brought up. As for me being here to stir up shit, it?s funny people pose the same questions about VR that others have made about gnr, yet when they are made about gnr its ok but when its about VR its stirring up shit. The hypocrisies by some of the people on this board never ceases to amaze me. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: mikegiuliana on September 16, 2004, 07:18:25 PM I had said I believe it's because of the massive piano ballad done by axl, it was a change from what he sang about on afd n lies... Possibly it was *not sure* more grand that's why it got so much attention
I see a song like fall to pieces which is new and their second single, I don't know why axl gets more of a hassle but it's so early in the game that it doesn't even pay to compare the two different lead singers.. Dave I just don't know what you expect to hear?? One was during the bands third n fourth release, this is getting compared to a new group's second single.. I always thought great songesd like scom were take n very well, even brought gnr to the top with the number one single.. I think you're just reaching out there because it bothers you axl gets flack and no one bothers scott, but that's just how I view it.. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Booker Floyd on September 16, 2004, 08:10:09 PM As for who has the worse problems, no one pretends to know either of them but being abused, as a child is much worse than being a junkie As Tom-ass asked, who are you to decide that?? Who are you to determine which is "worse"?? When youre making posts declaring "my heros problems are worse than yours," Im afraid youve reached the absolute depths of child-like fanboy banter. The hypocrisies by some of the people on this board never ceases to amaze me. :hihi: Come on...havent you learned not to criticize others so-called hypocrisy? Funny, insnt it, that when youre caught in an indisputable, bold-faced contradiction, its "Booker, isnt it possible for peoples opinions to change?"? I guess not, since when it comes to Slash and people on this board, contradictions make you a liar.? Just another example of your own fumbling hypocrisy I guess...? : ok: Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: dave-gnfnr2k on September 16, 2004, 08:46:17 PM As for who has the worse problems, no one pretends to know either of them but being abused, as a child is much worse than being a junkie As Tom-ass asked, who are you to decide that?? Who are you to determine which is "worse"?? When youre making posts declaring "my heros problems are worse than yours," Im afraid youve reached the absolute depths of child-like fanboy banter. The hypocrisies by some of the people on this board never ceases to amaze me. :hihi: Come on...havent you learned not to criticize others so-called hypocrisy? Funny, insnt it, that when youre caught in an indisputable, bold-faced contradiction, its "Booker, isnt it possible for peoples opinions to change?"? I guess not, since when it comes to Slash and people on this board, contradictions make you a liar.? Just another example of your own fumbling hypocrisy I guess...?? : ok: Its a no brainer what is worse. When you are abused as a child you have no control over that, but when you become a junkie or drunk, its by your own doing.? You really cant compare being a junkie to being abused as a kid, come on now, even you can easily see which is more tramatic.? As for who said which is worse, i was not the first person to bring that up, it was TOP HAT (REMEMBER)? so try again. You are pointing your finger at the wrong person. I am curious to why you are calling me out on this when you should be asking him this question? Oh I forgot, his name says it all, Top hatted one. As for me contradicting myself, how did I do that?? If you are talking about my saying certain people on here are hypocrites than that is easy. People are allowed to ask questions about axl being self-indulgent on his songs yet other people are not allowed to do the same about Scott. So tell me how is that a contradiction? Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: badgirl on September 16, 2004, 08:51:39 PM When youre making posts declaring "my heros problems are worse than yours," Im afraid youve reached the absolute depths of child-like fanboy banter. :hihi: how come you manage to say such accurate and witty things to Dave's posts, but never to mine?.... ;) and newsflash genius: you can't pluralize "hypocrisy" and junkies, in many respects, DON'T choose to be junkies, rather they are led to that life, often because of abuse, often because of mental/emotional disorders, often because of a hard upbringing, often because a combination of all of the above. a basic psych 101 class could help you fill in those blanks. : ok: Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: dave-gnfnr2k on September 16, 2004, 08:57:17 PM When youre making posts declaring "my heros problems are worse than yours," Im afraid youve reached the absolute depths of child-like fanboy banter. :hihi: how come you manage to say such accurate and witty things to Dave's posts, but never to mine?.... ;) and newsflash genius: you can't pluralize "hypocrisy" and junkies, in many respects, DON'T choose to be junkies, rather they are led to that life, often because of abuse, often because of mental/emotional disorders, often because of a hard upbringing, often because a combination of all of the above. a basic psych 101 class could help you fill in those blanks.? : ok: First off, again what is with you people and being grammar police and spelling police, stop trolling and just reply to the topic at hand and not if i wrongly pluarlized a word. Thanks. 2nd, since I have a degree in psych, I think I know much more than you on this subject. And yes people choose to be junkies and drunks. They don't do it on purpose but its by their own doing, and scott was never abused as a child so what turned him to drugs? Oh him being bi polar, well there are meds for that, and not all bi polar people become junkies or drunks, i have friends who are bi polar, none of them are additcs or drunks, Axl isnt an addict or drunk either. So scott becoming an addict was by his own doing. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: badgirl on September 16, 2004, 09:05:58 PM a degree in psych? dare i ask from where. your interpretations of maladaptive behavior are severly lacking (and yes, this IS on topic) and, with your degree you should be aware that treatment of illness through psychopharmacology is not a cure all and is often a battle to find the right dosage, the right combination of meds, etc... and often that is not a cure all either. ::)
i really don't think you know what you are talking about on this topic so perhaps you should stick to simply defending Axl without trying to make qualitative statements about mental health. : ok: perhaps others on the board who suffer from these illnesses can back me up on this. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: dave-gnfnr2k on September 16, 2004, 09:12:19 PM a degree in psych? dare i ask from where. your interpretations of maladaptive behavior are severly lacking (and yes, this IS on topic) and, with your degree you should be aware that treatment of illness through psychopharmacology is not a cure all and is often a battle to find the right dosage, the right combination of meds, etc... and often that is not a cure all either.? ::) i really don't think you know what you are talking about on this topic so perhaps you should stick to simply defending Axl without trying to make qualitative statements about mental health.? : ok: perhaps others on the board who suffer from these illnesses can back me up on this. So tell me this then, what is to blame for scott doing drugs and being an alcholic? I am curious, do you know any one that is bi polar? I know THREE people that are, and none of them are addicts or aloholics. so what are you bashing your opinions on? And like I said I was never the one who started this which is worse, so point your finger at top hatted one. And I am not talking about axls mental health, I am talking about people being BiPolar in general, since someone claimed that scott is bi polar. I love how other people bring up this stuff yet people like you and booker blame me. : ok: Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: badgirl on September 16, 2004, 09:16:48 PM well good, as long as you submit that you have no clue as to what you are talking about..
to answer your question, how the fuck should i know why Scott became a junkie. Unlike you, i don't pretend to explain and qualify the behavior of relative strangers. i also wasn't aware that "blame" becomes the central issue in the debate over which affliction is "worse". how about you concede that its pretty fucked up to try and rate other people's emotional hell just so you can make some non-existent point shrouded in Axl hero worship. we know you love him Dave.? :yes: you should try making yourself a bit less predictable. you need to start making threads about everyone's "hypocrisies" surrounding Izzy's dog. you'll really have us all then! ETA: so you know three whole people AND have a psych degree!!! :o shit man, i won't question your expertise on this matter again. and, for the record, of fucking course i know bi-polar people. ::) and booker and i are targeting YOU with our comments because you are carrying the flame for someone else's argument. and it matters not who started it, you have made your points clear on the matter and it is those points we are in conflict with. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: dave-gnfnr2k on September 16, 2004, 09:27:38 PM well good, as long as you submit that you have no clue as to what you are talking about.. to answer your question, how the fuck should i know why Scott became a junkie. Unlike you, i don't pretend to explain and qualify the behavior of relative strangers. i also wasn't aware that "blame" becomes the central issue in the debate over which affliction is "worse". how about you concede that its pretty fucked up to try and rate other people's emotional hell just so you can make some non-existent point shrouded in Axl hero worship. we know you love him Dave.? :yes: you should try making yourself a bit less predictable. you need to start making threads about everyone's "hypocrisies" surrounding Izzy's dog. you'll really have us all then! There you go again thinking you are smart enough to speak for other people and put words in their mouth by claiming things that were never said? . Also, I'd say I know much more what I am talking about than you.? Again how many people do you know that are bi polar?? I would say none since you dodged the question. Oh so now I am trying to qualify the behavior of strangers? That is funny, havent people been doing this to axl since the tour ended in dec of 2002? Ah again its ok when people question axls behavior but God Forbid someone questions Scott or even slashs behavior, Here is that double standard again that certain people have on this board. But I dont know where I ever tried to qualify anyones behavior, would you point that out to me please. These last few rants but you, booker and tomass just prove what this thread is all about. Thank you for making my point for me. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: badgirl on September 16, 2004, 09:37:14 PM can you read? that was a prereq for your psych degree, was it not?
i'll itemize this for you so you don't get lost. 1. please explain what words i am putting into anyone's mouth. you weren't clear on that one. 2. i am not going to quantify how many bi-polar people i know because that is retarded. suffice it to say that i know a bunch, and have known a bunch, and not just bi-polar people. i know people who are afflicted from all sorts of mental emotional disorders. some seeking treatment, some not. but my friendship with these people hardly makes me "know more than you". i know more than you because i am smarter than you. : ok: 3. i don't know what "people" have been doing regarding Axl's behavior, i know what I have been doing. while i find Axl psychologically fascinating, i don't and have not pretended to know his mind or explain his decisions. so, save the "hypocrisies" argument for someone it applies to (i.e. not me). unless, of course, you can point me to an example of MY "hypocrisies". i don't speak for anyone on this board besides myself so please don't address your points on MY argument to include other people's thoughts. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: badgirl on September 16, 2004, 09:39:15 PM But I dont know where I ever tried to qualify anyones behavior, would you point that out to me please. Do you know what "qualify" means? it means you were trying to add a value to behavior (addiction) to make the point that drug use was not as bad as child abuse. ::) that's what that means. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: oldleadbelly on September 16, 2004, 10:17:58 PM This is a bit beyond the point, but it might shed some light on Scott. Scott, in his teen years, battled clinical depression. At the time his doctor did not diagnose him correctly, so he was left unmedicated. Scott turned to alcohol and cocaine because they helped him to numb the pain, so to speak. He was introduced to heroin during STP's Purple tour by Gibby Haines of Butthole Surfers. Scott discovered that heroin did the trick as far as easing his depression. Only after he was originally busted, in 94 or 95 I believe, was he diagnosed as being bi-polar. Now, as you should know dave (having a psych degree), bi-polar medications effect different people in different ways. Scott claims that when he is on them they completely numb him to human emotion. Not only does it wipe out his manic and depressed states, but also everything in between. For this reason, Scott has chosen in the past not to take them. Is this wise? That is not for anyone but Scott to judge, but that is the story. He also dealt with his brother, and best friend, being hit by a truck and killed when he was about ten.
Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: badgirl on September 16, 2004, 10:23:16 PM This is a bit beyond the point, but it might shed some light on Scott.? Scott, in his teen years, battled clinical depression.? At the time his doctor did not diagnose him correctly, so he was left unmedicated.? Scott turned to alcohol and cocaine because they helped him to numb the pain, so to speak.? He was introduced to heroin during STP's Purple tour by Gibby Haines of Butthole Surfers.? Scott discovered that heroin did the trick as far as easing his depression.? Only after he was originally busted, in 94 or 95 I believe, was he diagnosed as being bi-polar.? Now, as you should know dave (having a psych degree), bi-polar medications effect different people in different ways.? Scott claims that when he is on them they completely numb him to human emotion.? Not only does it wipe out his manic and depressed states, but also everything in between.? For this reason, Scott has chosen in the past not to take them.? Is this wise?? That is not for anyone but Scott to judge, but that is the story.? He also dealt with his brother, and best friend, being hit by a truck and killed when he was about ten. hmmmm.. so some people DO use illegal drugs to self-medicate... i think someone here mentioned that. ;) but leadbelly, unless you have three friends with depression, i am not sure you are qualified to speak intelligently on this topic. ;) but in all seriousness, i had heard bits and pieces about the depths of scott's problems. :( on a related side-note, one of my best friends is b-polar (among other things) and she can't seem to find a medication that works for her. she has been on just about everything (save for lithium, which i don't think would be the worst idea) and is still a mess. suggesting that you can simply "take meds" for any disorder is assinine in its ignorance. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: oldleadbelly on September 16, 2004, 10:42:49 PM This is a bit beyond the point, but it might shed some light on Scott.? Scott, in his teen years, battled clinical depression.? At the time his doctor did not diagnose him correctly, so he was left unmedicated.? Scott turned to alcohol and cocaine because they helped him to numb the pain, so to speak.? He was introduced to heroin during STP's Purple tour by Gibby Haines of Butthole Surfers.? Scott discovered that heroin did the trick as far as easing his depression.? Only after he was originally busted, in 94 or 95 I believe, was he diagnosed as being bi-polar.? Now, as you should know dave (having a psych degree), bi-polar medications effect different people in different ways.? Scott claims that when he is on them they completely numb him to human emotion.? Not only does it wipe out his manic and depressed states, but also everything in between.? For this reason, Scott has chosen in the past not to take them.? Is this wise?? That is not for anyone but Scott to judge, but that is the story.? He also dealt with his brother, and best friend, being hit by a truck and killed when he was about ten. hmmmm.. so some people DO use illegal drugs to self-medicate... i think someone here mentioned that.? ;) but leadbelly, unless you have three friends with depression, i am not sure you are qualified to speak intelligently on this topic.? ;) but in all seriousness, i had heard bits and pieces about the depths of scott's problems.? :( on a related side-note, one of my best friends is b-polar (among other things) and she can't seem to find a medication that works for her. she has been on just about everything (save for lithium, which i don't think would be the worst idea) and is still a mess. suggesting that you can simply "take meds" for any disorder is assinine in its ignorance. Indeed Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Sukie on September 16, 2004, 10:58:20 PM Let's get back on topic. If you want to call each other out, do it by pm.
Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: tomass74 on September 17, 2004, 03:33:05 AM well good, as long as you submit that you have no clue as to what you are talking about.. to answer your question, how the fuck should i know why Scott became a junkie. Unlike you, i don't pretend to explain and qualify the behavior of relative strangers. i also wasn't aware that "blame" becomes the central issue in the debate over which affliction is "worse". how about you concede that its pretty fucked up to try and rate other people's emotional hell just so you can make some non-existent point shrouded in Axl hero worship. we know you love him Dave.? :yes: you should try making yourself a bit less predictable. you need to start making threads about everyone's "hypocrisies" surrounding Izzy's dog. you'll really have us all then! There you go again thinking you are smart enough to speak for other people and put words in their mouth by claiming things that were never said? . Also, I'd say I know much more what I am talking about than you.? Again how many people do you know that are bi polar?? I would say none since you dodged the question. Oh so now I am trying to qualify the behavior of strangers? That is funny, havent people been doing this to axl since the tour ended in dec of 2002? Ah again its ok? when people question axls behavior but God Forbid someone questions Scott or even slashs behavior, Here is that double standard again that certain people have on this board. But I dont know where I ever tried to qualify anyones behavior, would you point that out to me please. These last few rants but you, booker and tomass just prove what this thread is all about. Thank you for making my point for me. Ok Mr. I am Sigmund Freud and I have a psyche degree and I work at footlocker, Can you enlighten me on something? What the fuck was the point of this thread. I would like to know since I supposedly helped you prove it. You may want to read my post again because you obviously didn't get the point. You really are a @&$#(&* Sad.................. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Butch Français on September 17, 2004, 06:12:16 AM so Im at the wrong place? :-\ Depends. If you're here because you think Scott Weiland is a God and you get annoyed when people say he's not, maybe....? :P Just like you won't find the world's biggest Axl supporters at Metal Sludge, you probably won't find the world's biggest Weiland fans on a GN'R board. /jarmo nonononono my good man, John Frusciante is God! :yes: ;D Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: St.heathen on September 17, 2004, 07:48:16 AM Just wondering if you could tell me which of Scott's lyrics you have found self indulgent?? I can't see it myself.
I don't really see it in Axl's writing either as i said before you could make that claim with anybodys writing. Now maybe on the trilogy videos especially "November Rain". As class as it is, once you have seen the "Making of ..." everybody else seemed pissed off with it all. They were very self indulgent videos. But come on man to argue over peoples illness. I mean i would expect someone with a degree on the issue to have a little understanding of Sociology and Psychology too. And have a lot more compassion for the complex nature of mental illness. You cannot say which one is worse, it's how people individually respond and deal with their problems. Axl and Scott would probably both kick your ass for bringing their lives up in such a way lol Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: tomass74 on September 17, 2004, 03:21:50 PM But come on man to argue over peoples illness. I mean i would expect someone with a degree on the issue to have a little understanding of Sociology and Psychology too.? And have a lot more compassion for the complex nature of mental illness.? You cannot say which one is worse, it's how people individually respond and deal with their problems.? ? Axl and Scott would probably both kick your ass for bringing their lives up in such a way lol THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!1 Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Acquiesce on September 17, 2004, 04:56:14 PM Wow, I can't believe we are actually arguing who has the worst set of problems. Both situations are horrible situations to deal with. Sure, Scott chose to try drugs but I doubt he chose to get addicted and let it destroy his life. Axl messed with some hardcore shit too and was fortunate enough to avoid addiction. Does that make him smarter or better than Scott? No, it makes him lucky.
Unless you are inflicted with a mental illness such as bi-polar then you cannot say what a person with such a disease will or won't do. You don't know what it's like to deal with the emotional torture. You don't know what it's like to be held an emotional prisoner by your own brain. You don't know what it's like to feel completely helpless because never will be a normal for you because there isn't a cure. Drugs become a way to escape those feelings, but unforunately it's extremely easy to become dependant on them because you're negative feelings become magnified when you come down. I think it's really digusting that people would let their blind fanaticism stoop so low as to argue whether someone's illness is valid or not. Get a grip on reality, will ya? Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: dave-gnfnr2k on September 17, 2004, 05:04:05 PM Tomass and acq. like I said before, something you ignored you should blame top hat aka slash is god from the bar for starting whose illness is work, since it was his comment that brought us down this road.
Its funny you still have not called him on that. Now lets try and get back on topic shall we? Because the question really still has not been answer. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: mikegiuliana on September 17, 2004, 05:14:52 PM dave what is your suggestions for the answers? Lets see scott did one song mentioning his problems with drugs and how it was fucking up his relations.. What does this have to do with why people have given axl shit over the years?
Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Acquiesce on September 17, 2004, 05:23:33 PM What are you talking about? My bar name?
Dave, it doesn't matter who started the off topic posting when you are the one making the stupid comments. Back to your original topic, I think some others answered the question already. I think some have this perception of Axl as being self-indugent because he comes across as this guy trying to remembered as someone important by releasing songs that are larger than life. Instead of going with the idea that less is more he has this obsessive need to add bells and whistles at every stop to impress everyone. I think the reason why people don't criticize the other bands that you mentioned because these musicians in general knew where to stop. Axl had a tendency to go a bit overboard, taking a bit away from the songs theirselves. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: dave-gnfnr2k on September 17, 2004, 05:29:05 PM What are you talking about? My bar name? Dave, it doesn't matter who started the off topic posting when you are the one making the stupid comments. Back to your original topic, I think some others answered the question already. I think some have this perception of Axl as being self-indugent because he comes across as this guy trying to remembered as someone important by releasing songs that are larger than life. Instead of going with the idea that less is more he has this obsessive need to add bells and whistles at every stop to impress everyone. I think the reason why people don't criticize the other bands that you mentioned because these musicians in general knew where to stop. Axl had a tendency to go a bit overboard, taking a bit away from the songs theirselves. So you claim that axl is trying to be rememberd by releasing songs that are larger than life? It really could be that those are the types of songs that he wants to make? So is led zepplin IV being self-indulegent? If axl really wanted to be remembered, he would have just kept making another AFD type album one after another but Axl wanted to evolove and grow as a song writer, there is nothing wrong with that. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Acquiesce on September 17, 2004, 05:35:36 PM If Axl didn't want to impress and be remembered he wouldn't be spending so much money and time on Chinese Democracy. There wouldn't be multiple versions of songs along with synthesizers, samples, orchestras, and whatever other excesses will be included on the album.
How can you compare Led Zep IV to Axl's indulgences? Do they use all the sound effects Axl uses? Am I missing something? Stairway may be lengthy, but comparing IV to the Illusions is a bit of a strectch, don't you think? Just for the record, I do like the Illusions and most of Axl's indulgences don't bother me but I can easily see the argument others make. BTW, could you please explain the bar reference? Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: badgirl on September 17, 2004, 06:03:14 PM Tomass and acq. like I said before, something you ignored you should blame top hat aka slash is god from the bar for starting whose illness is work, since it was his comment that brought us down this road. Its funny you still have not called him on that. Now lets try and get back on topic shall we? Because the question really still has not been answer. if you think Duff needs to choose his words more wisely, i suggest you heed that advice. i am not trying to be the grammar police, but it becomes quite difficult to read your posts thus, unlikely that we all can learn from their brilliance. i have stated and will state again, that whoever first made the point of which affliction was worse did not carry the argument over 4 pages. You did that Dave. :yes: no one is targeting top hat because YOU are the one making his argument for him.... is it that difficult to understand? if top hat was still contributing to this discussion and continuing to parade about the bone-headed belief in qualifying people's emotional experiences, i would be more than happy to take issue with HIM. But you really make it too easy for us, Dave. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: jarmo on September 17, 2004, 07:38:08 PM Stairway may be lengthy, but comparing IV to the Illusions is a bit of a strectch, don't you think? Yeah, it was compared to "Physical Graffiti" and "The Wall". :hihi: "Use Your Illusion" is a cross between Physical Graffiti and "The Wall," proclaims GN'R comanager Alan Niven. "It's a record that's gonna amaze and frighten at the same time." RIP June 1991 (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=5) /jarmo Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: oldleadbelly on September 17, 2004, 07:58:43 PM Tomass and acq. like I said before, something you ignored you should blame top hat aka slash is god from the bar for starting whose illness is work, since it was his comment that brought us down this road. Its funny you still have not called him on that. Now lets try and get back on topic shall we? Because the question really still has not been answer. OK, OK. I'll answer your question. Axl gets shit about being self-indulgent for one reason...HE IS. He's a selfish little asshole. He's fucked up in the head, and he really only cares about his own designs. He has an inflated opinion of his significance in this world, and he burns bridges with the media, bandmates, fans etc. because he is an arrogant dick. He gets more criticism b/c he has pissed on more people. This part of the board is full of VR supporters. A lot of us like Axl still, but are rubbed a bit raw by his whole "deal." Simply put, he has angered more fans of GnR so far than Scott has. Hypocritical? Maybe, but then again, humans are hypocritical by nature. Scott has a whole lot of this in his personality as well, and he is also called selfish. Most of Scott's criticism can be viewed through the jabs he endures over his drug use. He's called a fuck-up over and over again--not to mention a bad parent, and overall bad human being. People constantly ask the question, "Why doesn't he just die already?" So don't worry dave, Scott gets his. I like both of them, even though I acknowledge their flaws. I'm personally fairly conservative, and I know what my lifestyle is like, therefore I don't want my rockstars to be like me. I want them with all the flaws and hardships possible, and ultimately to see them rise above them. It's entertainment, and it's better when it's epic. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: dave-gnfnr2k on September 17, 2004, 09:30:44 PM Tomass and acq. like I said before, something you ignored you should blame top hat aka slash is god from the bar for starting whose illness is work, since it was his comment that brought us down this road. Its funny you still have not called him on that. Now lets try and get back on topic shall we? Because the question really still has not been answer. ? ? ?OK, OK.? I'll answer your question.? Axl gets shit about being self-indulgent for one reason...HE IS.? He's a selfish little asshole.? He's fucked up in the head, and he really only cares about his own designs.? He has an inflated opinion of his significance in this world, and he burns bridges with the media, bandmates, fans etc. because he is an arrogant dick.? He gets more criticism b/c he has pissed on more people.? This part of the board is full of VR supporters.? A lot of us like Axl still, but are rubbed a bit raw by his whole "deal."? Simply put, he has angered more fans of GnR so far than Scott has.? Hypocritical?? Maybe, but then again, humans are hypocritical by nature. ? ? ?Scott has a whole lot of this in his personality as well, and he is also called selfish.? Most of Scott's criticism can be viewed through the jabs he endures over his drug use.? He's called a fuck-up over and over again--not to mention a bad parent, and overall bad human being.? People constantly ask the question, "Why doesn't he just die already?"? So don't worry dave, Scott gets his.? I like both of them, even though I acknowledge their flaws.? I'm personally fairly conservative, and I know what my lifestyle is like, therefore I don't want my rockstars to be like me.? I want them with all the flaws and hardships possible, and ultimately to see them rise above them.? It's entertainment, and it's better when it's epic. That is funny since Axl let slash, izzy and duff all make the kind of songs they wanted, yet when it came to making the kind of songs axl wanted to, he had to twist their arms or they just up and quit, and you think axl is the selfish one? Its funny aside from slash, izzy and duff everyone else who has worked with axl have said how nice and easy he is to work for. So what does that tell you? As for burning bridges with the media, slash kisses the medias ass and lies about Axl in the interviews because slash is a glory hound. He craves the spotlight unlike Axl. slash has a much bigger ego than axl. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: badgirl on September 17, 2004, 10:03:35 PM slash has a much bigger ego than axl. :hihi: curious, but how does one find an objective way to measure ego? i mean, is this your OPINION, or is this fact? and if it IS fact, i would love to hear your thesis and documentation on how one can quantify something as conceptual and subjective as ego. please, indulge us all. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: dave-gnfnr2k on September 17, 2004, 10:16:53 PM slash has a much bigger ego than axl. :hihi: curious, but how does one find an objective way to measure ego? i mean, is this your OPINION, or is this fact? and if it IS fact, i would love to hear your thesis and documentation on how one can quantify something as conceptual and subjective as ego. please, indulge us all. shouldnt you be asking oldleadbelly this question also? Just curious? Stop trolling with your person attacks. Thank you. If you have a problem PM me and I have no problem discussing it over that. Thank you again. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: badgirl on September 17, 2004, 10:37:33 PM slash has a much bigger ego than axl. :hihi: curious, but how does one find an objective way to measure ego? i mean, is this your OPINION, or is this fact? and if it IS fact, i would love to hear your thesis and documentation on how one can quantify something as conceptual and subjective as ego. please, indulge us all. shouldnt you be asking oldleadbelly this question also? Just curious? Stop trolling with your person attacks. Thank you. If you have a problem PM me and I have no problem discussing it over that. Thank? you again. anyone can answer this question, however, you most recently stated that "slash has a much bigger ego than axl" so i would propose that you could answer it. unless of course, this is not your contention and you were simply echoing someone else's statement. moreover, i don't think that any of this needs to be addressed privately as the definition of "ego" is central to this thread which, as you know, was started under the auspices of the ego-related issue of self-indulgency. there is nothing tangental about my question and i am hardly trolling, merely calling you on your bullshit. if you want to make a claim as a fact, be prepared to back it up with evidence; you know, of the non-opinion kind. so again, would you please explain what factors you look to in determining such a fact. i would really love to know. you could teach us all something. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: dave-gnfnr2k on September 17, 2004, 10:48:08 PM Like I said, slash is always craving the spotlight while Axl shys away from him.
That is one factor right there, was that a not good enough reason?? Slash LOVES attention, Axl hates is, that is why Axl keeps to himself. And yes you are trolling since a person before me stated that Axl has a huge ego, yet you didn?t call them on it, just like someone way before me stated that Scotts problems were bigger than axls because of child abuse. Try being more consistent in your actions. Ps lets again try and get this back on topic please. Thanks. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: badgirl on September 17, 2004, 10:57:16 PM Like I said, slash is always craving the spotlight while Axl shys away from him. That is one factor right there, was that a not good enough reason?? Slash LOVES attention, Axl hates is, that is why Axl keeps to himself. And yes you are trolling since a person before me stated that Axl has a huge ego, yet you didn?t call them on it, just like someone way before me stated that Scotts problems were bigger than axls because of child abuse. Try being more consistent in your actions. Ps lets again try and get this back on topic please. Thanks. we are on topic and i am quite consistent in calling you on your bullshit. if i see another poster who posts as much dreck as you, i will be more than happy to take issue with it. so, your contention is that "spotlight craving" is the criteria used to determine "ego"... that is it? and could you please explain "spotlight craving" and what constitutes it? Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: dave-gnfnr2k on September 17, 2004, 11:14:30 PM Like I said, slash is always craving the spotlight while Axl shys away from him. That is one factor right there, was that a not good enough reason?? Slash LOVES attention, Axl hates is, that is why Axl keeps to himself. And yes you are trolling since a person before me stated that Axl has a huge ego, yet you didn?t call them on it, just like someone way before me stated that Scotts problems were bigger than axls because of child abuse. Try being more consistent in your actions. Ps lets again try and get this back on topic please. Thanks. we are on topic and i am quite consistent in calling you on your bullshit. if i see another poster who posts as much dreck as you, i will be more than happy to take issue with it. so, your contention is that "spotlight craving" is the criteria used to determine "ego"... that is it? and could you please explain "spotlight craving" and what constitutes it? You are not doing a very good job calling me on anything especially when people are doing what I m doing before me, and you are just ignoring it. Do I really have to spell it out for you and make you look any worse on this point? I am curious, how do you define someone having a big ego? You really think that slash always want to be the center of attention i.e. craving the spotlight, doesn?t entail him having a huge ego? If not, then tell me what having a big ego entails. And no this is not on topic since this topic is about scott and axl being self-indulgent. Slash has nothing to do with this incase you have not notice. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Sukie on September 17, 2004, 11:26:35 PM blah, blah, blah...What is it with you guys? I think we should just retitle this to the dave and badgirl argument thread. ::)
Can you please stay on topic? Thread title: "why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs and .." I understand that threads evolve with different comments, but you two are just going at each other again. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: badgirl on September 17, 2004, 11:36:01 PM You are not doing a very good job calling me on anything especially when people are doing what I m doing before me, and you are just ignoring it.? Do I really have to spell it out for you and make you look any worse on this point?? I am curious, how do you define someone having a big ego?? You really think that slash always want to be the center of attention i.e. craving the spotlight, doesn?t entail him having a huge ego? If not, then tell me what having a big ego entails. And no this is not on topic since this topic is about scott and axl being self-indulgent. Slash has nothing to do with this incase you have not notice. you cannot be serious. i will have to spell it out again, you seem to get confused so easily. 1. me ignoring what other people have said DOES NOT NEGATE the points YOU are making and supporting. do you understand that? so, just because top hat mentioned someone's problems are worse than anothers, does not mean that YOU didn't say that too. see? i would be more than happy to take issue with them if they were helping to spread this thread to 5 pages, but YOU are the one doing it, hence i take issue with YOU. 2. the issue is not how I define someone who has a big ego because YOU made the point, not me. I will remind you: you said "slash has a much bigger ego than axl", but you expect ME to define ego for you? why should i make your argument for you? are you not smart enough to do it yourself? i asked you to define "craving the spotlight", to quantify it. you did not do that and instead directed the question back to me... arguments don't work that way Dave. :hihi: 3. in case you and your psych degree didn't realize, I was not the one who brought up Slash or his ego. YOU did that. so why exactly do i need to stick to the topic when YOU made the topic that "slash has a much bigger ego than axl". i will let you in on a little secret. when someone makes a point, offers an opinion or a statement as fact, that bit becomes fodder for discussion. so, genius boy, when you make a point about slash's ego, or izzy's dog, we can comment on it and ask you to elaborate on opinions or provide evidence for facts. now, please re-read what i just wrote. you need to familiarize yourself with the process of critical thinking and of proper argumentation of points. maybe your psych cirriculum didn't provide these skills to you, but a basic liberal arts education demands English as a prerequisite for graduation and those classes (and those pesky books) teach you about reasoning, critical thinking and reading, all the things you so clearly seem to be lacking. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: badgirl on September 17, 2004, 11:40:53 PM blah, blah, blah...What is it with you guys?? I think we should just retitle this to the dave and badgirl argument thread.? ?::) Can you please stay on topic?? Thread title:? "why are scotts song on contaband? not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs and .."? I understand that threads evolve with different comments, but you two are just going at each other again.? sukie, with all due respect, the issue of "ego" is absolutely related to the overall issue of "self-indulgency". after all, to be self-indulgent, by my definition, is to think highly of one's self, to have a big ego. Since Dave was kind enough to mention that "slash has a bigger ego than axl" (though i don't really see how slash needs to be mentioned at all), i think it is absolutely within proper relevance to request for him to further define what he means by "ego" and "craves the spotlight". the thread does go off topic when dave whines that i don't direct my comments to other people here, so i have to take go off-topic to explain it all to him. :) Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: RichardNixon on September 18, 2004, 07:13:29 AM Stairway may be lengthy, but comparing IV to the Illusions is a bit of a strectch, don't you think? Yeah, it was compared to "Physical Graffiti" and "The Wall".? :hihi: "Use Your Illusion" is a cross between Physical Graffiti and "The Wall," proclaims GN'R comanager Alan Niven. "It's a record that's gonna amaze and frighten at the same time." RIP June 1991 (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=5) /jarmo I think that sums up the UYI albums pretty well. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: mikegiuliana on September 18, 2004, 09:28:31 AM Tomass and acq. like I said before, something you ignored you should blame top hat aka slash is god from the bar for starting whose illness is work, since it was his comment that brought us down this road. Its funny you still have not called him on that. Now lets try and get back on topic shall we? Because the question really still has not been answer. ? ? ?OK, OK.? I'll answer your question.? Axl gets shit about being self-indulgent for one reason...HE IS.? He's a selfish little asshole.? He's fucked up in the head, and he really only cares about his own designs.? He has an inflated opinion of his significance in this world, and he burns bridges with the media, bandmates, fans etc. because he is an arrogant dick.? He gets more criticism b/c he has pissed on more people.? This part of the board is full of VR supporters.? A lot of us like Axl still, but are rubbed a bit raw by his whole "deal."? Simply put, he has angered more fans of GnR so far than Scott has.? Hypocritical?? Maybe, but then again, humans are hypocritical by nature. ? ? ?Scott has a whole lot of this in his personality as well, and he is also called selfish.? Most of Scott's criticism can be viewed through the jabs he endures over his drug use.? He's called a fuck-up over and over again--not to mention a bad parent, and overall bad human being.? People constantly ask the question, "Why doesn't he just die already?"? So don't worry dave, Scott gets his.? I like both of them, even though I acknowledge their flaws.? I'm personally fairly conservative, and I know what my lifestyle is like, therefore I don't want my rockstars to be like me.? I want them with all the flaws and hardships possible, and ultimately to see them rise above them.? It's entertainment, and it's better when it's epic. Dave that is without a doubt the answer to why axl gets so much shit.. He gave you reasons about both people.. I know no answer will ever satisfy you because you feel poor axl is getting ganged up on.. I see on the other posts you mention egos, so because slash gives tons of interviews he has a huge ego, and because axl shys away means he has less of one.. That's hilarious.. That doesn't mean anything/.. Axl's more of just a flake, he's crazy. What else could desrcribe one's behavior. he turned guns n roses into his own personal band and treated the other guys like they were just there to play.. Axl said he had to force n beg the guys to play his massive ego ballads.. Doesn't that show they weren't interested, they even said in btm they had nothing to do wtrih t4eh horns, and so on..The other guys moved on, axl is still in his dream world witht his foreveer album, he promised so much shit already, new songs next summer in 2001, wrapping it up years ago, making a statement following another canceled show in rio, missing two shows in a three week tour, blamed buckethead for everything, even called the guy erratic (he's one to talk) This is why the man gets so much flack for his actions.. Believe me if he was cool and reliable and not self centered he would be just fine.. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: younggunner on September 18, 2004, 12:27:17 PM Quote Axl's more of just a flake, he's crazy That flaky, craziness brought the old band straight to the top....didnt see much concern back then...Quote he turned guns n roses into his own personal band and treated the other guys like they were just there to play.. Axl said he had to force n beg the guys to play his massive ego ballads.. Doesn't that show they weren't interested, they even said in btm they had nothing to do wtrih t4eh horns, and so on.. Oh really? So your basically saying being Slash didnt want to do what Axl wanted to do, Axl should have sucked it up and done only Slash type songs? ANd just for the record. I read in an old interview thats somewhere on this site, that is what either Slash or Duffs idea to add the horns and stuff. BUt thats not the point anyways....He didnt turn GNR into his old personal band. How come soings like NR and DC were already created before AFD. How come the band went along with Axl and made that kind of music even before they started? How bout Axl realized that they could expnad there audience by providing other types of songs. Axl didnt ruin the band. GNR, as a group did. CAn you say egos,jealousy,and different musical philosophies? Quote The other guys moved on, axl is still in his dream world witht his foreveer album, You have me cracking up on this one. How in your big head of yours can you say Axl hasnt moved on? The fact that he has only mentioned the old members once in that press release shows that he has moved on. In those 2002 radio interviews he would rarely talk about the old members. In fact, I think he requests not to be asked about his former bandmates. To me thats moving on.The fact that he refuses to reunite or do anything anyone elses way shows that he has moved on. The fact that he has remained out of the spotlight and remained quiet has showed that he has moved on. And what if that forever album is a classi? Then what will you say? O yea, I know, its because of the GNR name. What if that album is better than AFD or the Illusions? Then what? The guy and the band have worked their asses off to make the best dam fukin album. Why do you have an agenda towards that. YES,? the road has been shaky and long, yes they could have done a better PR job, yes they shouldnt HINT at when the album might POSSIBLY come out, but when its all said and done its all good intentions. When its all said and done, the focus will shift from the soap opera to the music. And isnt that the reason why we are all here? Because of music we feel passionate about? No wlets see if the big boys will deliver...my chips are in... Quote he promised so much shit already, new songs next summer in 2001, wrapping it up years ago, making a statement following another canceled show in rio, missing two shows in a three week tour, blamed buckethead for everything, even called the guy erratic (he's one to talk) This is why the man gets so much flack for his actions.. Again, the album was pushed back in 2001 because of Buckethead. You imply as if they have cancelled numerous RIo shows. They cancelled it because Buckethead left. Why and how were they going to play if a vital member left? Missing shows is nothing new??? Yes, I agree, and as Ive said, Axl and GNr have deserved some of the critisim regarding their pr moves. No doubt. Quote Believe me if he was cool and reliable and not self centered he would be just fine.. ;DDo you do stand up? Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: tomass74 on September 18, 2004, 03:15:36 PM And no this is not on topic since this topic is about scott and axl being self-indulgent. Slash has nothing to do with this incase you have not notice. Incase you have not noticed, you are the fucking one who started talking about Slash. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: tomass74 on September 18, 2004, 03:21:51 PM Tomass and acq. like I said before, something you ignored you should blame top hat aka slash is god from the bar for starting whose illness is work, since it was his comment that brought us down this road. Its funny you still have not called him on that. Now lets try and get back on topic shall we? Because the question really still has not been answer. Again if you read my original post about people arguing over these illnesses.. I was calling out EVERYONE that was talking about that. You are as parnoid as your hero. I didn't single you out dave-gnfnr2k. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: tomass74 on September 18, 2004, 03:26:13 PM Stairway may be lengthy, but comparing IV to the Illusions is a bit of a strectch, don't you think? Yeah, it was compared to "Physical Graffiti" and "The Wall".? :hihi: "Use Your Illusion" is a cross between Physical Graffiti and "The Wall," proclaims GN'R comanager Alan Niven. "It's a record that's gonna amaze and frighten at the same time." RIP June 1991 (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=5) /jarmo GN'R comanager Alan Niven may have compared UYI's to those albums but c'mon. I think they are great and all although I rarely listen to them anymore.? But just because Gn'R's manager said it doesn't mean it's not a "stretch". UYI's don't come close. They are not timelss classics and have not stood the test of time like PG and TW except to hard core Gn'R fans. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: tomass74 on September 18, 2004, 03:28:19 PM Tomass and acq. like I said before, something you ignored you should blame top hat aka slash is god from the bar for starting whose illness is work, since it was his comment that brought us down this road. Its funny you still have not called him on that. Now lets try and get back on topic shall we? Because the question really still has not been answer. ? ? ?OK, OK.? I'll answer your question.? Axl gets shit about being self-indulgent for one reason...HE IS.? He's a selfish little asshole.? He's fucked up in the head, and he really only cares about his own designs.? He has an inflated opinion of his significance in this world, and he burns bridges with the media, bandmates, fans etc. because he is an arrogant dick.? He gets more criticism b/c he has pissed on more people.? This part of the board is full of VR supporters.? A lot of us like Axl still, but are rubbed a bit raw by his whole "deal."? Simply put, he has angered more fans of GnR so far than Scott has.? Hypocritical?? Maybe, but then again, humans are hypocritical by nature. ? ? ?Scott has a whole lot of this in his personality as well, and he is also called selfish.? Most of Scott's criticism can be viewed through the jabs he endures over his drug use.? He's called a fuck-up over and over again--not to mention a bad parent, and overall bad human being.? People constantly ask the question, "Why doesn't he just die already?"? So don't worry dave, Scott gets his.? I like both of them, even though I acknowledge their flaws.? I'm personally fairly conservative, and I know what my lifestyle is like, therefore I don't want my rockstars to be like me.? I want them with all the flaws and hardships possible, and ultimately to see them rise above them.? It's entertainment, and it's better when it's epic. Good answer. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: mikegiuliana on September 18, 2004, 03:36:41 PM I sometimes wonder if people got on axl because he seemed different then he appeared from his reckless life.. ? It's just a question I myself ask..
I remember hearing afd as a kid and thinking these guys were nuts, fucking wild untamed rockers..? Even something like scom had attitude to it.. It was wild, and showed a softer side to axl, but it was kick ass though.. The first time I heard november rain I was thinking (well a few songs on the illusions) what happenbed to this wild child, this crazy guy? Seemed to go soft a bit, might be why some people got on him.. It's just another way to look at it, not saying it's the answer.. Depending on the time you started listeing to gnr you might not like the little change from afd to the illluisons.. I know songs like NR were done before afd was released, but to the person just checking gnr out don't know this..Afd was attitude and kick ass in a bottle, lies was raw as well, illusions somewhat toned it down and became a big production that wasn't for all.. Could be a reason or two he was frowned upon? Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: the dirt on September 18, 2004, 05:08:18 PM Quote The other guys moved on, axl is still in his dream world witht his foreveer album, You have me cracking up on this one. How in your big head of yours can you say Axl hasnt moved on? The fact that he has only mentioned the old members once in that press release shows that he has moved on. In those 2002 radio interviews he would rarely talk about the old members. In fact, I think he requests not to be asked about his former bandmates. To me thats moving on.The fact that he refuses to reunite or do anything anyone elses way shows that he has moved on. The fact that he has remained out of the spotlight and remained quiet has showed that he has moved on. You're forgetting about him insulting Izzy, Duff, and Slash at the shows here and there... I sometimes wonder if people got on axl because he seemed different then he appeared from his reckless life.. ? It's just a question I myself ask.. I remember hearing afd as a kid and thinking these guys were nuts, fucking wild untamed rockers..? Even something like scom had attitude to it.. It was wild, and showed a softer side to axl, but it was kick ass though.. The first time I heard november rain I was thinking (well a few songs on the illusions) what happenbed to this wild child, this crazy guy? Seemed to go soft a bit, might be why some people got on him.. It's just another way to look at it, not saying it's the answer.. Depending on the time you started listeing to gnr you might not like the little change from afd to the illluisons.. I know songs like NR were done before afd was released, but to the person just checking gnr out don't know this..Afd was attitude and kick ass in a bottle, lies was raw as well, illusions somewhat toned it down and became a big production that wasn't for all.. Could be a reason or two he was frowned upon? I agree that there was an edge, a venom if you will, to even the sweetest songs Axl sang. Maybe he WAS frowned upon by some, with the direction of some of the tracks on the UYI, but it is /was clear that these types of tunes were in him to begin with. Some people may have frowned upon certain choices and the way things went because their badass crazy hero was not exactly how they wanted him to be, and it spoiled their....................illusions :P Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: younggunner on September 18, 2004, 05:08:22 PM Quote The first time I heard november rain I was thinking (well a few songs on the illusions) what happenbed to this wild child, this crazy guy? Seemed to go soft a bit, might be why some people got on him.. It's just another way to look at it, not saying it's the answer.. Funny thing is songs liek that were created before AFD ;)Quote Afd was attitude and kick ass in a bottle, lies was raw as well, illusions somewhat toned it down and became a big production that wasn't for all.. And if GNr did a few albums like AFD they would have been frowned upon. You cant please evryone. It obiviously didnt effect too much people when they put out the illusions and the tours....So I think you are in the minority with your rnr crusade.Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: mikegiuliana on September 18, 2004, 05:22:06 PM I don't think gnr would have been frowned upon at all if they did a few albums like afd, that's the reason they were loved so much, they took something during a time of glam and monster ballads and kicked ass.. We'll never know for sure, but a second afd type straight out kick ass rock wouldn't have hurt anyone.. The reason I don't agree another afd type album would have hurt them is because some groups stay one way for years n years..I think teh afd thing where they needed to progress was just something the fans say now..
Look at old metallica, kill em all, master of puppets, ride the lightning, and justice for all... All killer albums, they were just striaght up heavy metal... Black was still hard but showed a softer side, just seems from then on they got a label of being soft, I loved their earlier stuff myself.. UYI's brought out more fans because they could identify with more types of music..It'l bring moms n girls out more.. I had alot of fans that were more for harder rock like metallica and anthrax. They loved afd, but found the newer stuff "soft" Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: younggunner on September 18, 2004, 07:30:27 PM Quote I don't think gnr would have been frowned upon at all if they did a few albums like afd, that's the reason they were loved so much, they took something during a time of glam and monster ballads and kicked ass.. We'll never know for sure, but a second afd type straight out kick ass rock wouldn't have hurt anyone.. The reason I don't agree another afd type album would have hurt them is because some groups stay one way for years n years..I think teh afd thing where they needed to progress was just something the fans say now.. Although Im sure Gnr would have created some kick ass rock type albums, it woul dhave been pretty hard for them to top AFD. You make it seem like they could do it like its nothin....Quote Look at old metallica, kill em all, master of puppets, ride the lightning, and justice for all... All killer albums, they were just striaght up heavy metal... Black was still hard but showed a softer side, just seems from then on they got a label of being soft, I loved their earlier stuff myself.. The difference between those type of bands and GNr is that even the hardcore/AFD still enjoyes the ILlusions. UYI's brought out more fans because they could identify with more types of music..It'l bring moms n girls out more.. I had alot of fans that were more for harder rock like metallica and anthrax. They loved afd, but found the newer stuff "soft" GNR made it clear from the get go that they were a diverse type band. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: jrs2001_99 on September 18, 2004, 07:50:46 PM why are scotts song on contaband? not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs and the ones we have heard from CD are? This always puzzled me. Any good legit answers? Both write about their problems yet there seems to be a double standard. Where has anyone said that Axl's contributions to UYI and the "new" stuff were self-indulgent? Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: mikegiuliana on September 18, 2004, 08:07:34 PM Youngunner, it would have been very hard to top afd, but not impossible to stay on the level, a bunch of those hard rockers on the illusions were carry overs from afd.. I don't think you need to top yourself each time, just be consistent is all one could ask.. :beer:
Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: Acquiesce on September 19, 2004, 02:10:34 AM Stairway may be lengthy, but comparing IV to the Illusions is a bit of a strectch, don't you think? Yeah, it was compared to "Physical Graffiti" and "The Wall".? :hihi: "Use Your Illusion" is a cross between Physical Graffiti and "The Wall," proclaims GN'R comanager Alan Niven. "It's a record that's gonna amaze and frighten at the same time." RIP June 1991 (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=5) /jarmo Now that's a gigantic stretch to make that comparison! Although, one could argue The Wall was self-indulgent as the Illusions. Title: Re: why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs an Post by: dave-gnfnr2k on September 19, 2004, 02:32:16 PM why are scotts song on contaband? not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs and the ones we have heard from CD are? This always puzzled me. Any good legit answers? Both write about their problems yet there seems to be a double standard. Where has anyone said that Axl's contributions to UYI and the "new" stuff were self-indulgent? You are joking right? Peoplel are always saying that on this board, where have you been? People were saying back in 91 about axl the songs were self indulgent. |