Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Chinese Democracy the Sgt. peppers of the new millennium

I think that Chinese Democracy, much like Sgt. Peppers did back in the 60?s, is going to surprise the music world.  Just reading what Dizzy, Axl, Tommy and the other people from Paul Buckmaster to Marco Beltrami have said about this album, it is going to be very special. 

With Sgt. Peppers, the Beatles turned a lot of heads because that album was a huge step in that bands progression, and a huge departure from the Beatles old style.   Sgt. Peppers was nothing like the Beatles did before it, and Chinese Democracy is going to be like nothing we have heard before from Guns n? Roses. 
Tommy calls the new songs ?earth shattering? and Dizzy has said the songs will exceed our expectations.  Those statements make me wonder how amazing this album could very well be.  Brian May and Tommy have both talked about how outrageous/amazing Axl's voice is on the album.   Tommy also alluded that the rockers on CD will be like old gnr,  while Zakk Wylde said the songs he heard from CD sounded like AFD on steroids.

Axl?s lyrics are said to have deeper meaning than on past albums, and we know there is a song about John Lennon, a song about Axl?s childhood abuse, and I am sure ones about the old band and  the break up with Steph Seymour.  This album will also have some political flavor with Chinese Democracy and Oklahoma (if that song makes the album).

I believe Chinese Democracy is going to showcase the new bands diversity and could still be talked about years from now much like AFD is still proclaimed as being just as fresh today as it was 15 years ago.  CD is said to be a melting pot album by Axl and I think you will be able to tell what each members input was to each song.  I think each song will have each member?s trademark, something they can all be proud of.

I am not saying this album will be the best album ever, but I believe it?s going to something that will inspire discussion for years to come.  and not only will it serve to cement Axl's legendary status as the ultimate rock star, it will preserve the dignity of the guns n roses name in the annals of rock history

It's something we can only see when we hear it. I'm not sure if this album will be the new Sgt. Peppers, I think the album will be good only to fans and people who liked the GNR once.
And I don't buy those kind of info. All the membeers should say good things about the album, it's pretty obvious. They wouldn't say "nah, this album sucks big time, it's just a musical beast for Axl's ego". Sure, I do think that CD will be really amazing, but I say this 'cause I liked every new song I already heard.

Anyone else surprized Dave started this? I don't think CD will be the huge hit Sgt Pepper was. The music scene is different. The beatles WERE HUGE, and I mean HUGE when they dropped Sgt Pepper, they didnt disappear for 12 years and come out with Lennon and 3 new guys. I hope it sells well, but the way the music world is today I doubt it will be selling at any record number.

On a side not not counting what Tommy, Dizzy or the other band members say. (Heck I read in interviews which bands all the time and they say their new album is the best ever) From what I heard and what others like Wylde, May, and the others say I think CD musically is gonna be a hell of an album, Axl has put soo much time and effort into this, this might be the perfect album.

great post dave!  :D

the way that sgt pepers is said to have paved the way for a lot of the music we have today... i believe that cd will also open up new avenues of popular music

no they aren't going to invent new chords... but i think that they are going to use a lot of elememts that aren't present in popular music today

and as far as the diversity... thats going to be a big thing with this album
we keep hearing how its a collaborative effort and how they all had input on the entire album.. track by track
so yeah i definitely think it will have that in common with Sgt Peppers

i think too that even the fact that several different producers have worked with the band in the studio will be reflected and add to its diverstiy

the word innovative comes to mind
yeah... i think that with 8 (or more!) talented musicians input they got some pretty innovative ideas on there as a result of blending their different ideas

and like sgt peppers, i'm thinking there will be songs on cd that some people and some critics won't get...
or understand why its on there...

one funny thing came to mind... sgt. peppers was done by was the same bad with a different name...
and gnr is a different band with the same name  ;D
i read that they did it under /as this other band (sgt peppers... ) so that they could be free of what people would expect of them... even be free of what they would expect of themselves...
i thnk its actually kind of similar... like from tommy's recent comments... gnr had to become a different band for the music to evolve

First off cut out the personal remarks about me OK? Thanks.
Second, did you even read my post or understand what I was saying?
I NEVER said it was going to be as big as Pepper and I NEVER said it was going to sell record numbers.

MY point was CD like SP its going to be a huge change from what gnr has done in the past and its going to turn a lot of heads since its so different and something we have not heard before.

Rah Rah sis boom ba ::)

The difference is "peepers" was recorded by the same band that recorded all the earlier beatles albums (unless you buy into the paul is dead theroys) whereas this new gnr album is recorded by a whole new band which in reality throws all logic of you post out the window. sorry.  :-\

Anybody suprised that Dave posted this on every board he post on?  :hihi:

I don't think CD will have an impact like Sgt Peppers did. Cd will sell well but the musical enviroment is so different these days. If its not pop enough then it won't do great. Yeah it will sell lots of copies but if it doesn't live up to hype then it will just fizzle.

Wow another personal remark toward me, gotta love it eh?

Again, I never said CD is going to change music, I dont know why people keep bring this up and trying to change the topic.
My point was once again, this album is going to be a huge step in a new direction for gnr like the beatles took for SP

And Saul, this is the direction the band would have gone if slash and Co was not in the band, but they didnt like this direction so axl found people who did.

Ok you guys, that's gonna be my only remark about his: STOP the personal comments on Dave already and the replies such as: "Rah Rah sis boom ba  ::)". First, it does not add anything to the thread, second, we don't really care if you like Dave or not, if you don't like his thread you don't have to participate in it.

Now let's get back to the topic, thanx: Chinese Democracy the Sgt Peppers of the new millennium?

no.

no matter what people like or don't like
this album is going right beside AFD UYI LIES TSI & the GH album in the GN'R section of the cd stores
and in history as well

it will be a crucial part of gnr and music history REGARDLESS
if nothing else - for better or for worse - it will show just WHY the band ended like it did

anyway, i still think that its gonna sound like GUNS N' ROSES
Tommy even said so...  :P
but that doesn't rule out it being innovative becuase there are so many guns songs that are nothing like the rest...
yet they still have that sound - hm... what is that sound..
oh yeah...
Axl!   :P

but seriously... something about GN'R... that I fully expect to live on in the spirit of this new CD

the very thing about it being different and new.. .and exciting.. thats GN'R - thats what i expect from Guns N' Roses  : ok:

It doesnt matter if it "sounds" like Guns N Roses or not.

This album cant be their "sgt peppers" album because it's their debut album. Sgt Peppers was a huge departure in sound and style for the beatles from all their other albums BUT it was created and recorded by the same band that recorded all the other beatles albums.

This democracy album is by Guns N Roses yes , but not the same guns n roses who recorded afd or UYI so how could anyone possibly say "their direction will have changed" when they dont have any material on wax to "change directions" from?

That must make sence to someone no?  ???

Not dissing dave at all here , his post woulda made for good conversation/specualtion had this album been by the old band but whereas this is an all new band it just destroys the comparison of this version of GNR and the beatles. Maybe we can revisit this topic when this version of GNR are ready to release a third or fourth album.  :peace:

Its amazing how the topic can go from one thing to...this is gnr, this is not gnr thread.
I try and post a new topic that has nothing to do with if this band is still gnr yet it gets turned into that.
Nice going.

*sigh* but your thread has EVERYTHING to do with who in actuality is IN the band dave!!  :rant:

Think about it for a minute , this album will be this version of GNR's DEBUT album! This new band has NO collective recorded output to "change direction" from! The beatles did!!

A better thread would be "will democracy be this version of gnrs "afd" album?"

If you dont understand what I'm saying then I'm sorry .. I couldnt make it any clearer. I'm not trying to piss on you or your thread but it really doesnt have any logic. Sorry.  :-\

how about then.. would it be a "valid" thread if it was

will the new album take GN'R in a different direction?
will it be a big departuer from past GN'R albums?
will it be innovative?

thing is GN'R could continue in the same vein as AFD... or UYI...
easily
frankly i don't know what new GN'R can do that old GN'R hasn't done because old GN'R has done SO much variety of types of music...
but there is the factor - thank god - of the new players...
which will/ apparently have taken GN'R into a major progression from the past body of GN'R work

anyway.. like i was saying
GN'R could if it was Axl's ambition (or lack of) fail to take a musical leap or bound
thats as far as this topic goes

i get what you are saying Saul
i even said that in my post that its a different band

but i like the idea of thinking about CD being like sgt pepers in that its innovative...
if that doesn't apply to old gnr vs. new gnr
then i'll take it as applying to Axl - he's always wanted to progress the band musically
from afd to illusions alone that is clear

so if the sgt peppers' thread angle doesn't fit the gnr scenario because of what you stated
which is obvious (that its a new/different band) i still enjoy discussing what has been said about
the album by the band members and others who have heard it
and speculating on it...

we already know its a different band
well of course... except its still Axl steering the vehicle
always has been ;)

whoa , slow down tiger!! Off topic? I havent taken this thread off topic one bit. In fact I think I brought some common sence and rational thought to it. I'm sorry if you cant see/understand/comprehend what I'm saying but I'm sure someone will ..


Oh , now yer just being huffy! I'm not saying this band ISNT guns n roses. of course they are. But they are a very DIFFERENT guns n roses then the band who recorded afd and uyi 1&2 ... this new band has NO recordings under their belt so obviously there is no way POSSIBLE they could change their "musical directions" when they have never HAD any musical direction .. very much unlike the beatles.

Is that so hard to understand dave? Doesnt anyone understand where I'm coming from?!

Seriously , I've been very polite I thought in my replies .. if you wanna make a very subjective thread like this one dave you should be prepared for some people to reply who may not see things 100% your way. I think if you re-read my replies and use some clear headed judgement and thought you would understand better where I'm coming from.

In no way am I trying to say this new band isnt Guns N Roses. But to say this album might be a "change in their musical direction" is really a very strange thing to say about a band who have never released an album together.

So what should I have said Axl changing his style instead of Guns n roses? Would that have been logically? Because when I said Gnr, i was talking about Axl and the different incarnations of gnr he has been in, its the same thing. but if you want to get techinal, then sub Axl in the the name guns n roses. But it does not really matter who backing axl in guns n roses, it still does not change the fact the style on CD will be different from the style on AFD and the UYIs.
The name on the album will still be guns n roses.

if the comparison isn't applicable to the band's progression since its different band members...
its could still be a valid comparision/discussion in a lot of other ways because, like i posted, we have a lot of reason to expect it to be innovative and have a lot of variety much like Sgt. Peppers

aw... why can't we get along here and people just have fun?  :no:

I dont see the point of carrying on with this conversation since it's obvious (by comments here and the debacle at the gnrbar) that persons involved here cant accept some level headed subjective debate.

When you make a very subjective thread like this you shouldnt expect it to follow down a one way street , dave.

And just so you wont go off on a full blown temper tantrum like you did in the exact same thread you created and had locked at the gnrbar I will offer you this as my closing thought ...

Yes , Chinese Democracy WILL be GNR's Sgt Peppers album .. identical in every way. The new band will totally change musical directions then they have followed in the past. No song on democracy will sound anything like the songs the new band have put out before. This new album will easily be unlike any album they have put out before.

 ::)

its nice to know you went off topic in both threads.
You did it there first, then did it here.
god job saul.? : ok:

I do have a question for you tho saul.
When total album sales for guns n roses are talleyed, will the AFD/UYI gnr and the CD Gnr have seperate sale numbers or will they be combined?

They will be combined, so for music sake the band guns n roses have progessed, if that took losing members, so be it, but the band is still guns n roses and you can still claim they have progressed since AFD.

And AGAIN for the record, the reason I am pissed is because you are trying to turn this topic into a this band is not guns n roses thread, it has nothing to do with if  you agree with me or not.

hahahahaha

I know you people!

Slash_is_God here! ;D

I see this arguement will go on by all means neccessary : ok:

When did this conversation, that you started have any thing to do with GNR's sales quotas? Why are you, Dave, changing the topic?

Get this straight: New BAND! This is thier first release! GNR haven't released a cd in how long? So technically the band was dead. Along comes the new GNR. This is all brand new. Not a rehashing. Not a regrouping. This is just brand new with an old name. Crazy concept isn't it?

Does anyone other than dave really think I went off topic?! Every reply I made in this thread contained logical reasons why you cant compare this bands debut album to the beatles "sgt peppers" album. And isnt this thread about democracy and the sgt peppers album?! So how then have I gone off topic?!  ???

The fact is dave I disagree with you and made valid points why. Calm and mannered. I stayed very much on topic and explained why I disagree. Theres no other way to look at it. I dont have to go and edit anything I said to hide anything .. it's all there. Nowhere did I stray from the subject at hand.

In a world of public message boards and communication you must be ready to , if you plan on creating subjective threads ,  accept and handle the opinions of others in a civilized manner wheter or not they agree or disagree with you. In this case I disagree with you and have tried to explain to the best of my abilty why by offering you easy to understand logical reasons.

The sales from "guns n roses" is irrelavant .. totally. Your topic was if this band will change musical directions like the beatles did with sgt peppers album. My reply was very simple ... impossible for a band who havent released an album to change directions. Did anyone in the new guns n roses play on afd? UYI 1&2? No. So how could they change musical direction in any way shape or form? What I'm trying to tell you is not rocket science.


And AGAIN , how many times do I need to tell you that I'm not trying to turn this into a "this is not guns n roses" band but rather "this is not the band whose musical direction caused them to record afd and UYI's therefore how can THEY change muisical direction?"

Geez.

Funny. I see Eva and Dave. Where's KV?  :-*

Just messing. Nothing against Eva and KV. Dave on the other hand . . .

You already have but like I said in my other post, would I have been better off using the name Axl Rose and not the band name? That is a simple question you have no answered.

So answer that question.

First, I liked your first post, Dave. It could have been a great topic, but was ruined by some people (including you). Sorry.

Back to the topic, I agree with you, but I agree with the doubting Thomas-side, too. CD can be a significant change in Axl's career, but not in GN'R's history, 'cause the new band called GN'R is a really different band. Let me answer your question: "When total album sales for guns n roses are talleyed, will the AFD/UYI gnr and the CD Gnr have seperate sale numbers or will they be combined?" Yes, they will be combined, but even if Axl left and others, for example Robin Finck would have the possibility to use the Guns N' Roses brand and Finck would release an album with Dr. Dre, Britney Spears and Niam Gallagher, even its sale numbers would be added to AFD and UYI. Would you think that it's the same band with a very different sound? And as others mentioned, Beatles didn't have a 13 years pause (they had been existed for only 10 years), they released 1 or 2 albums in every fuckin' year of their career.

I don't like that Axl calls his band Guns N' Roses, but it's really offtopic, and doesn't really matter if I try to see the real meaning of what Dave ha said. The most important thing that hopefully this album will be a huge surprise for today's music market, with some new experiments. I hope this album will be really huge - if it's not a success, then Axl's over. I hope that 2005 is the year.

No it wouldnt for the most part. You asked about the music. Had you posted about the lyric content of the album your thread would have been justified. For the most part axl usually had nothing to do with the music slash , duff and izzy created.

Anyways dave , we can run around in circles all night .. it wont prove anything. I feel I've made VERY valid points about the original subject and I thinkit's time to move on.  : ok:

And saul for the record, I didnt hide anything with that quote from me.
I realized i was hot headed and thats why i deleted the post after I posted it.

"The most important thing that hopefully this album will be a huge surprise for today's music market, with some new experiments. "


yeah...  i was reading some reviews of sgt peppers... and i was imagining some of the same things being said about CD...

it was actuall y pretty funny to entertain.  one in particular contained a comment on one of the tracks ("when I'm 64")
that I can easily imagine hearing that about some track on CD that people won't 'get' or that people will think doesn't 'fit'.... if i find the link i'll post it but it was something along the lines of "why is this song on this album!?"

and on a side note... there have been way more senseless / silly thread topics posted here and on many other gnr boards that have ended up in decent conversations....   just a thought/ observation

Sorry dave, didnt mean to make it so personal, but the only comparison you really have then is the above stated?


Don't alot of bands try and change their sound or music after their first or second album, some try to scale back, some try to take it to the next level, some try to write about different things, so in a way Rod Stewart the way he changed to Disco in the 70's from being rock, could make his disco era compatible to Sgt Pepper?

There is no way CD could be comparable to Sgt Pepper, they had so many succesful singles of that album.

If you are saying that an artist, like axl, changing his musical style makes his album comparable to Sgt Pepper, then when Garth Brooks became Chris Ganes, his rock alter ego, that would make his CD comparible to Sgt Pepper.

There I solved it Chris Ganes cd = Sgt Pepper cd = CD

I just seen Chris in the $4 bargain bin...

what the members of the band say of the album doesnt really mean anything.....Its like slash and co, they were talking how great their album was, (needless to say I felt disappointed) of course the band is gonna say  their album is awesome.....they did it !
I cant imagine someone saying, 'oh you know.. the album we just made sounds like shit'

How many of the "avarage music buyers" do you think will say "this album sounds a lot different compared to the old albums" instead of "oh, it's a new band. they don't sound anything like the old one"?


Sure, most people on the boards will know it's a new band, but will the casual music buying person care? Do these people know who is/was in the band or do they just listen to the music?


Maybe CD is GN'R's "Achtung Baby". Yeah, they didn't change the band, they changed the sound of the band dramatically with that album.



By the way, I've never seen so many people from The GN'R Bar in one thread.....   :o



/jarmo

From what everyone is saying (who heard the album) it seems as though there is plenty of instrumentation to the album. The first time I heard "oh my God" I thought it was cool but they sort of blodded all these instruments together and it sounded like the beginning stages of what CD would sound like. Now fast-forward to the 2002 VMA's "madagascar" sounded much more refined and solid than "OMG" . I only heard half of Madagascar at the VMA's and it was stuck in my head for months, not to mention the lyrics were deep and very thought out. These days everything is about the hype, I think (and hope) CD will be one of the only CD's to ever live up to or be better than the hype.

I'll wait to hear the album before I make a judgement. From my own personal expectations, there will be enough AFD in this to satisty those who are holding on for what was.

COmparing the two is crazy, how can you even consider this baed on those bootlegs..? Most of those songs are average at best..

To say gnr is progressing is also a false statement, it's more like a rebirth of an old name with new people bringing out their firs talbum as one..

Instead of everone sitting around pretending they know anything besides what the artists of the album say(which is going to be good) just wait till you hear it for yourself..

I know someone is going to think I am lying, but I had took the link from the remixed version of the blues where it has the echo with axl's voice and posted it on a forum not(people that wouldn't care which artist) dealing with music. and out of twenty people one liked it..So the idea is people here are biased and so desperate for anything that they are calling average songs masterpieces..

Cd will probably be the new gnr's breakout album.. I'm sure it will do great, but everyone is getting so ahead of themselves..

CD is so earth-shattering that it will reach to as many peoples hearts beyond time and space as the Sgt Peppers has. I wish! :D


It'd be shattering if You were taking this band for "Axl and his backing band". :hihi:

Before everything,
This Guns n? Roses will be Guns n? Roses of the new millennium, I must say.

One of the problems the new band will face is the fact that people expect GnR to be this misfit group of just off the street riffrafs singing about life on Sunset Blvd, which was the basis of AFD. Gnr 2004 is now just an brooding iconoclast with a group of studio musicians behind him. That's not meant to be a criticism because these players are really really good and they can tour in their own right. The difference of course is a change in how to view the nature of this band; when most people don't get what they order in a restaurant, they can't get passed that the fact that lobster is smaller than it looks in the picture. Hopefully the music will be strong enough to pull in many of the old fans, but the new gnr will lose and has lost alot of old ones. The only absolution they can find is in putting out a great, not good or fair, but great album.

Even if old gnr stayed together, that image would have been long gone. It ended really with AFD. Stayed around with the illusions in terms of appearance. But if you think that old Gnr would still be viewed as that leather and boozed, grimy band, years later, when they are 40 yrs old...you couldnt be more wrong.

GNR is a band. They are not trying to perceive to be like AFD ot any 80's type stuff. They are established guys who are in a band to make meanigful music and continue the gnr legacy, musically. The days of RNR imagery and attitude are over. The way you push your image is by having attitude and balls through your music. ANd if the music works, your image, whatver the fuck it may be, will work.

One thing the old group could have portrayed was living hard, sex drugs rock n roll..Juat because you become big doesn't mean your habbits will change, it might actuyally fuel them because your money source us unlimited..


You canb take most 80's rock bands and even though they weren't still suffering on the strip living in one room they were still living the rockstar life of excess.. I loved that image with the original guns.,.. They wore their lives on their sleeves, they were real, not posers..

Gnr is the one group i notice that gets shit for being fucked up a few years after their decadent debut.. I always laughed when axl went off about the guys dancing with mr brownstone when they were like this 2 years before in 87.. Look at any group, they rocked out and got hammered, every great band did it.. The whole I don't give a fuck reckless life of gnr was one of the things that made them so appealing to me and many others..
To sum it up, they wqouldn't have had that street feel anymore, but they could have had the party life, loose women life..Sex drugs n rock n roll :peace:

Beatles fan here.

Sgt Peppers wasn't the album that kick started the Beatles new music direction. Rubber Soul did. The subject needs to be changed to reflect that, because saying it was Sgt Peppers, is just incorrect.

Sgt Peppers was unique because it was a concept album, much like what Floyd later did. I don't believe Chinese Democracy is a concept album. Nothing we have read indicates that (actually a good concept would be if Axl actually came out and told us the release date).

I think Dave, my friend, that the title needs to read:

Chinese Democracy the Rubber Soul of the new millennium?

or...

Chinese Democracy the Rubber Soul for Guns N' Roses?

It certaintly represents a new direction for GN'R. This isn't the old GNR. Its definitely represents a new musical direction for them.

This is a great way of summing up the new/old GNR thing. It should really be the final word on the subject.

As for Dave's original post and question...

For me, the captivating thing about Axl and the new band is the possibility that the new album could be a paradigm-altering moment in pop/rock history, and this has been the thing that has kept me tuned all along. It's the reason that, before I got on the internet in 97, I kept my Rolling Stone subscription, and the reason I used to go the grocery stores every month and read Hit Parader, Metal Edge, and RIP to get any little bit of news about GNR I could (are they still together, are they recording?). It's the reason I spent $250 on a ticket to the first Vegas show and drove across the country to see it. It's the reason I've spent (sad to say) probably weeks/months of my life since 97 reading and writing posts on this board.

So, it's the imagination and the possibilities of CD, based on what we've felt before from Axl/GNR, that makes one think that it could be good enough to create a brand new emotion, a new kind of high.

That said, it's impossible for any band or album to compare the Sgt. Peppers impact. There have been better bands than the Beatles, better albums than Sgt. Peppers, and better songs than A Day In The Life, etc... And many bands have had their "Sgt Peppers" album, where they break out of their creative shells and release something much more ambitious than they've ever done. If you listen to and read about A LOT of music you see this comparison about 4 or 5 times every year... "[insert album] is [insert band name here]'s Sgt. Pepper. Groundbreaking. A sprawling masterpiece. Yadda yadda".

But it's the moment in culture that has made Sgt. Peppers something that just about everyone recognizes almost 40 years later. And I'm just not sure that such a thing is possible from music anymore, and no matter how good CD is, I don't think CD will astonish a music world that has been trying to astonish people ever since Sgt Peppers (and, for that matter, Pet Sounds) came out.

How can the democracy album represent a new musical direction for them when the fact remains that they have never released an album together?  ??? This isnt like a band replacing a lead guitar player. This incarnation of "guns n roses" is all new from the ground up with only axk remaining.

It IS guns n roses , sure .. but it isnt the band who's musical direction lead them to create AFD and UYI's. So I dont understand how this album can be a new direction for "the band"  ???

Its very simple. The GNR legacy will keep on keeping on with the release of CD. That is after all what we are talking about. The GNR Legacy. And the release of CD marks a new day for GNR. Much like the release of Rubber Soul did for the Beatles.

We have already discussed this asepect and moved on, why are you bringing it up again? Stop trying to turn this into a this is not/this is guns n roses thread

You point has been taken. Now move on.

Like I said before, it does not matter who is in the band.
The band is called guns n roses, and what fans know of from the musical style of what guns n roses brought to the table, this album is going to be totally different.
So when a kid in the record store sees the new album, and puts it in, they rae not going to be hearing the same style that was on AFD or UYIs.

You give any random person the new songs and ask them what band is this.
They will ask if its guns n roses, eventho slash and duff are not playing on the song.

Everyone is talking, no one knows how this will effect the new group.. I'm sure other groups thought their new albums were amazing too,

I would say metallica thought their st anger album was great, but it isn't..

The idea is to wait and not speculate on what it will do, or to compare it to such legends as the beatles..

In order for this album to leave a mark it must be known about, I think the new band is doing a terrible job so far in promotion for it..Who else knows anything about what tommy says?? The vmas was the ultimate way to kick this album off.. In the real world people think axl made some half ass comeback, had plastic surgery and hired some goons..  Not trying to sound harsh but the average old gnr fans I know and the casual ones I've met outisde of the internet would have no clue what's going on...I could mention chinese d to alot of people and they wouldn't know what I was talking about..

Any great artist was progressing during a time when they were still on people's mind, talking about the average joe being aware of the group..

I think it would be safer to say how this album will affect the new audience when we see how involved the group gets in promotion, how early they release a single, if the music is somewhat of what people are listening to now... Sure the gnr name alone carries a ton of weight, but for me for this album to be a smash it must go beyond the person buying it on gnr's rep, or the fan who waits on the message boards..

A change in music is a big deal, something like afd doesn't happen much.. I hate today's emo shit but there are tons of people that love it, so not everyone's needs will be filled by your musical taste..

You just can't compare the beatles to new gnr in anyway, one had the world going nuts, the other was similar ten years ago.. Be patient if possible and let teh music do the talking.. Hyping this album to be bertter then anything that ever existed, based on a few bootlegs, and as I said they were not even amazing songs..

I disagree the songs we heard are not amazing.
The blues and madagascar are better than 90% of the crap they play on the radio, and those songs are the so called fillers on the album. Plus we have not even heard the finished songs yet since they were just live.
Remember when Nov Rain was first heard live, most fans said it sucked and it was not that great, yet now its one of guns n roses best songs ever.  Madagascar is right up there as one of the best gnr songs ever written IMO, and i think the studio version is going to be amazing.

Those songs are not so called fillers, they're b sides at worst.. He had to play something new for us to hear.. I agree they're better then most songs on the raido... I personally never though of them as mind blowing.. I'm not a big piano keyboard guy..  There's no way I put them with estrangfed or november rain.. I liked nr when I first heard it, I was a little in shock because of the length but it was good.. \

Some songs do grow on a person, that's why I say listen to something a few times before you judge it..

My thing in this topic was just to let the songs do the talking and not to compare it to the beatles before it comes out..

I was not comparing the quality to the beatles, since we have not  heard all of CD, my point was, CD will be the SP for guns n roses meaning, the style of the band is going to change drastically, now you claim that was rubber soul and that is fine, but I was just making a point, if you get CD and plan on hearing another AFD or UYI, you are gonna be in for a suprise.   CD is going to change guns n roses for ever much like Peppers did for the beatles.

Hear, hear.? :D
I hear their musical turning point was Rubber Soul. It was their first jump and they had kept evolving their music ever since.

And then again Beatles is most known for Yesterday?? :confused:

Dave,

I wonder how it's possible to be different and more advanced then the illusions.. Illusions have epic ballads, regular ballads, short hard rockers, long hard rocker...Pianos, keyboards, harmonicas, bongos, etc..  The only possible difference I could see is possible use of an orchestra, industrial, with synths, sound effects,, I couldn't see why they needed a second keyboard player..

I'm going to say this as a gnr fan, I never liked industrial, turntables, synths, and anything in the types of NIN, or prodigy... It's never been my thing, this was one reason I loved gnr so much.. This is why I hate silkworms..

Buckethead is an amazing guitarist, he did some excelletn work with some real rock influences, for mom, electric tears, colma.. etc... Those were great starters for ballads.. I somehow nfeel they used bucket more for his sound effects and bizarre playing, I hope they didn't overload on that..When I say that I mean songs like silkworms. and oh my god..


Progression is great,  i'm all for it, but when  your band is established as hard rocker with epic ballads like things queen  would do you have to be carefull on what you introduce to the fans..

I know dave you're very big into these new (well old) boots, but not everyone loves them as much as you, so understand some fans fear what might happen..a

If I could chose types of songs from the past it would be wttj, pc, you could be mine, civil war, coma, dust nad bones..I love hard rockers..

I just worry it might be industrial rock adn piano ballads..

ANd new gnr are posers?

The songs we have heard are songs that are not meant to legitimize the gnr comeback and this new band. They are filler songs that will help contribute to the album. Meaning if they are in fact fillers and do not turn out to be the best songs on the album, we are in for a very special album

When peopel say different direction/sound they dont mean in terms of strucutre. There will be ballads,rockers, etc on CD just like there was on UYI and every other rock album in history.
It will be different than the illusions in terms of sound,lyrics, and focus. It will be more organized. Stuff liek that.

CD will be  amelting pot of all types of osngs with a classic feel to it. We will not be getting a NIN album. I promise you.

No one ever said new gnr were posers, i was talking about old gnr and their lifestyles,, Saying they were the real deal in the fact they wrote about their lives, afd was a biography in song.. ;)

When I say the new songs we heard are fillers, I am talking about songs that are not going to be used as singles, meaning they are not the best songs this album has to offer, and like I said madagascar and the blues are two of the best gnr songs ever.

I really like this thread.  It may have lost focus a bit, but I think it started good conversation.  I think I understand what Dave is saying.  It's not so much about Chinese Democracy being better than Sgt. Peppers; it's more about this being the album that shows a much different vision.  And, I think there is no denying this is Axl's vision.  The other guys may have song wriiting credits, but even Axl admitted he helps steer it in the right direction.   I'm not sure this album will have the influence that Sgt. Peppers did; there is no denying GN'R aren't at their peak of popularity anymore and the Beatles were.  This isn't a slam towards GN'R, but most bands when being compared to the Beatles in terms of being influential aren't going to favor well.

That being said, I think you are going to see Axl's best work lyrically and without question emotionally.  He's stated he wants the music to do the talking and we all know he's dealt with a lot of issues over the last few years.  I do worry a little about the album being overproduced, but am curious to see what all elements he comes up with.  We've already heard about orchestras being involved, but have also heard there are classic style rock songs as well.  I like Madagascar and The Blues, but kind of get bored with them after awhile; I'm really anxious to hear some aggressive songs.  I am anxious to hear what Buckethead provides because he is obviously talented, but I hope he doesn't go crazy with his solos.  I know he's got crazy skills, but he loves to shred and that just sounds annoying, IMO.  I can't wait to hear the album and see if it sounds anything like we expect! 

^^
Im glad a few people understand what I am talking about and not trying to make it a this isnt guns n roses thread or thinking that im saying CD is going to be better than Peppers.

So, all you were saying is that Chinese Democracy will be a lot different from previous GNR albums, as well as current popular music? Okay, I agree with you. Is there anyone who thinks otherwise?

All due respect to you, but didn't need to invoke Sgt. Peppers in the thread title to make such a minor point.

Really....the Sgt. Peppers comparison is a completely arbitrary one.  If the point is simply that Chinese Democracy will be different from the other GNR albums (like we didnt already know that), than why not

1) Simply say so

2) Make a more relevant comparison, like Motley Crues Generation Swine or something.  After all, the principles the same, and the comparison actually makes some kind of sense (two 80s/early 90s hard rock bands coming back with an "updated" sound, experimenting with electronica, etc.).

Instead, Dave compares it what is widely accepted as the greatest album ever for no apparent reason...

And why is that?? The beatles were the biggest band of the 60s and gnr were the biggest band from 87-93.
It also got people to read the thread, so I think the title is perfect.?

Its amazing that certain people on this board are now complaining about how people name their thread.

But here ya go booker.
CD is going to change the way people look at rock music in the 2000s just as the beatles did with SP in the 60s

I think it will be loved by all the hard core fans who are stuck on led zepplin and 80's rock and I think it will be loved by posers who are covering up their good charlotte stickers with GnR.

But unlike SP I think critics are gonna hate it. It could be the best thing they ever heard but they will have issues with axl and I think most will hate it for that  reason.

Faith No More - Angel Dust was the Sgt Pepper of the new milleniium
Chinese Democracy hpefully will just fill a huge gap and end speculation

More cowbell I agree (love the snl will ferrel skit)

On  the last part I think the reason it will get shit is because it's a new band with a familiar name,..Not everyone thinks it's right top continue without the other guys.. Also if it is somewhat techno or industrial, it will get the losing the roots speech.. If the music is very good to great then what a reviewer says doesn't matter, people will recognize it-.--- I never take reviews seriously, the person just might not like that type of music..

At first I was one of those people, but now I just want to move on and enjoy something from axl..

Booker, ANY Gnr comparison to Motley Crue is equally as silly as comparing Chinese to arguably the best and most important album ever written. Jarmo's equation to Gnr's Achtung Baby is probably the most accurate-it will be different sounding musically but the lyrics and melodies will be all Axl/Gnr.