Here Today... Gone To Hell!

http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/music/interviews/story.jsp?story=562537

He said: "... It's a more talented band that we have now, much more talented than Guns ever was. There were Guns nights where it was magic, but we were fucked up half the time. No, 99 per cent of the time. As players we weren't really maximising our potential. So, as far as aggression and talent are concerned, this is a much better band. I don't know if another band will ever achieve the kind of world domination Guns N' Roses managed. But if they do, it's going to be us."

Utter bullshit

VR are great but they struggle to compete with even GNR's average material

Also...isn't this just another vr vs GNR debate - its been trodden into the ground, some people prefer VR (yet visit a GNR board ???) and most of us prefer GNR.

I feel embarrased for him being quoted saying something so silly.

that is rubbish.. just because you're fucked up, doesn't mean you don't have talent, or enough talent.

and i'm sorry but i think that talent was clearly displayed in the studio and on stage, so whatthefuckever.

Actually no, its duff claiming VR are better than the old guns n roses not the new band.

I love Duff, but he is really out there on that one. Its really sad if thats the way they are thinking. No wonder they couldn't see Axl's vision!!!

Correction:

IF another band does it it AND THEY WILL - it will be the new GnR Chinese Democracy

i can't believe i told this ass hole i was his fan and shook his hand...this is bullshit. VR suck. i saw them and it was such an average show from 3 guys that used to be in a great band. sure duff is playing better. but i wouldn't trade GN'R for VR ever. and they're not that talented. their cd is not even in my top 10 cds right now and it wasn't when i first bought it either... jeez how could someone that used to be so cool like Duff say this amount of bullshit... i liked them better when they were on drugs. it stoped them from saying BS like this.

if Duff said that, I'm really desapointed by him. He seems to reny his glory past with GN'R. It's sad that what used to be the biggest Rock band in the world in the late 80's/early 90's, sudenly has turned into a war between bandmembers.?

Why do you all always have to whine like a bunch of babies? Duff, isn't insulting Axl or his new band. If he is insulting anyone, he is insulting the band he was a part of, but it's not even an insult! As much as I love VR, I don't think they will ever live to the old band's magic so I will disagree with him there. However, I have no problem with what he is saying because in his opinion the old band were too fucked up on drugs to maximize their talent like they are able to do now. What the hell is wrong with that statement?

he's underestimating the brilliant monster that was guns n' fucking roses.

Who said that Duff is insulting the new band? This thread is talking about how duff thinks VR is better than the orginal gnr that he was apart of.

Who brought up duff is bashing axl and the new band in this thread? NOONE, why do the gnr bar people keep coming here to troll and make the threads off topic?

I agree with you and disagree with Duff, although I think he can find more pleasure and joy playing in VR than he had playing in GN'R.

i like VR and contraband is an above average to good cd but i think they played better fucked up cause the solo's,songs,bass lines,riffs,lyrics,vocals,drums etc etc etc were all 10 times better than anything on CB. However DUff couldve meant live they are better than old gnr, that he and slash play better live now than they did then.? On that its possible i suppose meaning strictly his and slash's live ability.

I do agree with D somewhat in what he was saying that Duff thinks he, Slash and Matt....even a clean Scott now, are at the top of their game that they have all left drugs behind. They will never be what GNR was and that statement is a little out there, but what do you people think he is gonna say, "that he is in a second rate band now?" If he really thought that there would be no point to playing or recording. More power to all of them that they are clean, happy and making music. If Duff thinks that makes them better than old GNR, who cares. They're not, we know they're not, and I think deep down he knows they're not.....but again, is he supposed to tell that to the general public? That wouldn't look too good.

The idea of VR some day being bigger than GNR used to be is just laughable.

No you dont say anything about what band is better.  He just has to say guns n roses when I was in it was great, and now I am in VR and this is my best work post gnr.

Oh my god!!! How can he say that?  How dare he?  My weekend is ruined now!!!  I am so pissed off.  This is an insult to me.  He plays better sober than fu$ked up, NO WAY!!!!  He isn't allowed to say that!!

P.S.

Suckertrain Blues ROCKS.

Duff is saying what Axl has been saying for years-they were great players, but were messed up with drinking/drugs.

In other words, he's saying Dave is better than Izzy and Scott is better than Axl. What-the-fuck-ever!!!  :rant: :rant: :rant:

Now, now
like some ppl said above, I think he?s rather comparing yesterday?s himself with today?s.

And GNR (millennium) supporters should show some consideration for VR fans.?
Coz soon the time come and? :peace:

LMAO! Wow, I always saw Duff as the more respectable one out of the 3 Gunners in VR, but that just sank. How lame is that?

what duff said is completely ridiculous, i think he's just saying it to hype up vr, i like velvet revolver but was very disappointed, i don't think they're playing better, probably worse IMO, they're playing nowhere near where they used to, that being said, if that wasn't max potential, which i suppose is possible being so wasted all the time, what the fuck was? ???

Duff is basically stating that contraband is better than AFD and the UYIs.

You have to give him credit for being an optimist.? Perhaps not very realistic, but an optimist all the same.? :)

Wow, do you just pull this stuff from your ass or what?

Oh god no!! Duff's obviously back on the drink and drugs again if this is anything to go by.

I knew someone was bound to post this.. Of course I knew everyone would be thrown off by the title too.. Anyone that can read between the lines can see he means they're better as "musicians" because unlike during the gnr days they're now clean.. In the interview it stated nothing will be as big as gnhr, that is because he knows gnr was better.. Again people are just getting upset over nothing, duff, slash, n matt are clean, he's just simply saying heads are clear, now they can be better musicians.. : ok:

^^
Actaually he stated if anything is going to be as big as guns n roses was back in the hayday it will be VR.
Am I right?

You're so full of shit, you just posted this to bring problems.. He is saying he's a better musician now then when he was in gnr because he's clean.. Of course I expected nothing different from you dave

And??

It reads more as him saying they're better on a night to night live basis...

So when duff and slash were making afd and the UYIs they were not musicans? What were they then?

That was part of what he was saying.
Duff said VR is a much more talented band.
He should have said VR is a much better live band but he didnt say that.
Talent just does not have to do with playing  live shows.
And izzy was messed up during the UYI sessions, and they were all messed up during the AFD sessions.

He is just stating that they're better when they're clean, what's so hard to understand.. I knew you would sit here and twist everything

Alright, now can we quit the bashing?

And Dave - whether deliberate or not, you're just provoking him, he said a better musician.

I did not twist anything.
Like I said, duff said this band is more talented than Gnr ever was.
but ok since you are saying its about them playing live, albums aside.

Do You really think the live shows that VR puts out in 2003/04 are better than than the shows that gnr put on from 87-93?

The ritz show in 88, which is widely reguarded as one of the best gnr shows ever,? has VR played a better show than that?

Of coarse some of the UYI shows will be uneven but that UYI tour was the lonest tour for any band ever up to that point.
They toured for over three years for that tour.

It seems like he's saying VR are more even than GN'R was. GN'R were magic some nights and others they weren't.

What's the big deal? Of course he's gonna say VR is great. Everybody says their latest album and/or current band is the best thing they ever did.



/jarmo

Of course I don't thin k the shows are better then 1988 ritz buyt that's not what he means.. He's speaking about himself as a clean player compared to when he was fucked up playing years back,,Say he does feel he's a better musician, he feels he's more productive and creative does that mean he's wroing because gnr was huge?

I understand what he's saying, you're beating a dead horse here..

I bet there are people here that just read your title and flipped,..

 : ok:

Good post...

Exactly.. It's the same when tommy says gnr is more advanced now.. Dave will believe this without hearing cd.. The mebers of their new grouips are just being positve... I believe duff is just proud of himself now..

I mentioned this a while back on newgnr.com, but the more Slash and Duff come out in the media and say things like this, it just makes them look stupid.  I used to like Slash and Duff, but everytime they suggest how their band is better then the old gnr, or Axl is just fucked up, I lose a lot of respect for them.  It seems like every other week, the old members have their little digs about Axl, and the new or old band.  I'm tired of it all.  It's almost like there scared of when Chinese Democracy will hit, because when it does, everybody will finally know that Axl is the real genious here.  If the ex-members of GNR are so into VR and like it that much, then they should keep it that way.  They  should let GNR go, because they seem pretty damn excited to be working with Scott in VR.  But the reality of it is, is that they can't let it go.  They really want to be in GNR deep down.  You can tell this by the things they say.  It was only a couple of years ago when Slash said that if Axl called, he would rejoin him, and the same with Duff.  Slash and Duff keep hearing the hype and the rumors about Chinese Democracy and they are getting nervous, and jelous. 

Do I blame The ex-members?  No, GNR was like a family to them.  Whenever you get that close to something or somebody, it is hard to let go.  However, they shouldn't have been so nieve in the first place and quit the band.  Dizzy knows, Matt knows, Slash knows, Izzy knows, Duff knows, and everybody else who ever worked in GNR knows that Axl is the General.  Without Axl, the group and name GNR would would have never have been as huge.  Axl has made everyone in that band.  Slash, Duff, and Matt just made a bad decision in life and now they have to deel with it.           

peace and rock on

I agree completely.? I just thought the funniest thing was that he said Velvet Relover would be the band, if any, that could be as big as G N' R.? Could he really believe that?

Let me say this.
Duff (and slash) should choose their words more carefully then, because a lot of people reading this article are going to come to the same conclusion as me and others, that think he is saying vr is more talented than the old gnr, and yes some others will see it the way you are mike.? T hey just need to stop bring up the old band and axl in all their interviews, and if the interviewer asks them a question, just say no comment, or IM in VR now not gnr.

I don't agree with you  peeps, if they stayed they'd still be sittting around waiting.  The only reason they mention the old group is for the same reason tommy mentions cd all the time of late, because they get interviewed and asked about all these things..

Is it so hard to believe they're happy where they are..? They've been there done that, btm said if it was equal terms they would think about joining.. The guys are out there being interviewed dealing witht the press, axl is missing, it's unfair to compare the guys and say you lose respect becaused they're not in some vcave hiding, they deal with what's going on..

Axl gets interviews from the biggest groupie ever kurt loder so the interviews are tame.. Only with gnr could someone lose more respect for the old guys who actually get out, tour, play, give interviews then to someone who is never around and does none of those things..

I don't think they care about cd, it could have been released at anytime and they would have played..

There is a difference between tommy talking about CD and slash or duff talking about guns n roses.
Tommy is in guns n roses and CD is their album.
That would be like you saying slash and duff shouldnt talk about contraband.

I've been following eevry vr interview when I can watch tehm, and if you see them through europe you'll see everyone that interviewed them brought up gnr, or axl.. It's not like they sat around just talking about him and his actions, or whatever else.. Part of being in a group like gnr and moving on is getting these questions asked..

I say it's two bands now, at one time or another everyone loved the old group so leave it at that. an interview means nothing.. Lets say duff fells his band can be the biggest since old gnr, then why shouldn't he?? I bet you feel new gnr will be bigger then anyone out tehre since the old gnr.. ? That's ok though, and you haven't even heard one album yet..

Put it this way, duff and slash will be asked more about gnr today then tommy would.. All I'm saying is that they can't avoid it because it was a huge band they were apart of..

A sign of a truly dangerous band :hihi:


And that's that!

I agree with Jarmo, what's the BFD? Yeah of course he's gonna say VR is gonna be bigger than old GN'R and stuff. It's not like he's gonna come up and say: "yeah our album is ok and we're pretty good live but I have to say we kicked more ass when we were in GN'R." He's gonna say they're going to dominate the world, etc. He's promoting his album and his band, that's normal. I don't see it as a negative comment. I see it as something taken out of context and disproportionate. All I'm gonna say is that the comparison with old/new GN'R is not necessary (but still normal), he should maybe compare VR to today's bands.

No need to get our pants in a knot. I think he just totally misuses the word "talent".

He probably meant their playing abilities as musicians, which depend on their level of sobriety, whereas talent is a continuous thing.

I would like to know the exact context Duff was speaking in.

If he meant live they are at the top of their game better that makes sense, that as an overall band they are better, meaning each member has an equal say whereas GNR was Axl's way i may agree, but if he is speaking musically he is way way wrong.

Slash's guitar work compared to his work on GNR albums is slightly above mediocre.

Im a huge Slash fan and i consider him an all time top 5 guitarist but like ive stated in other threads, his solos on the ballads are more "so fine,yesterday" than NR,estranged,scom or KOHD

So in that regards Duff would be wrong he has zero basslines on CB that compare to RQ,RNDTH,SCOM or Coma

No he isn't.? He kept using the word "we", so he obviously meant the band as a whole, not individual members.? Try reading more carefully.



No he isn't.? He was obviously talking about their stage performance, since he made reference to the way they were drinking and using drugs.


VR blows away GNR's live shows in 1992 and 1993.? Just watch the UYI DVDs.  They were banal, as the entire band was just going through the motions.? After Izzy and Steven were gone, the old band didn't have it live-wise anymore.? However, I will concur that up until 1991, the original GNR will never be equaled by anyone, be it VR or Axl's new band.? So I disagree with Duff even though I understand what he means.


Nope.? There will never be a better show than that from any former GNR members unless they're all together again.

That toyko show was just one show not what the whole tour was like.
Look at gnrs last show ever in argentina, that show was simply amazing.
Guns n roses put on over 3 hr shows back in the UYI days, what does VR play for like 45mins to an hour now?>
come no now.
Even if duff thinks they are a better live band from the vids i have seen or heard of vr, they are not better live than the old band. 

I can't believe you actually think VR live is better than GNR?  What are you smoking? 

Yeah, if it's a festival. Their own headlining shows have been around 80 minutes or so.




/jarmo

Very true, as for dave dude I went to the 2002 tour at msg and the shows werwe 2 hours, this was including all teh tons of new material they had.. I felt tehy could have definetly cut one of those opening acts and did more of their own stuff..

Vr has been doing soime good setlists, some shows are longer then others.. You say 45 minutes to an hour but that more when they aren't the headliners, they played a few festival as mentioned..

Besides to stay on topic I still don't understand how you interpet eevrything new gnr can possibly say but you can't get what duff says? He's just saying the guys play better now because they're clean.. It's real simple dude..

Also if he feels that the band he's in is the best thing since gnr then that's his right to..It's not like he and the others weren't a few reasons the old band was so good..

Topics like this get blown way out of context, ever board I've seen it someone goes wacky over it.. Just take a second to read it and it makes sence.. ;)

Dave you also seem to forget the idea they sign autographs and get involved with the fans,take pics (not all shows) when I saw new gnr they were on and off quick..Revolver plays alot of songs, just gnr's songs are longer so it's about equal..Parts of the gnr show was waiting for axl to come around with the piano..

Some of you treat these musicians like wrestlers from the WWF lol Like you have to pick sides and have to argue your guy's case for them.

What is wrong with these people - adults.  Having opinons??  At least when they are asked, they give their honest and fair opinion.  They don't go telling people what they can or cant ask.

It doesn't matter if you or i don't agree with it.  But you can't let it distract that you like their records and talents lol It's madness.

We all here give our opinions and discuss details of their lives everyday. Why can't they give their opinions on matters that ARE their lives and have been important and personal in their lives like GN'R was?  We are just observers. He actually helped create the reason why we are all here.  Give the guy some repsect.  Certain people are digging in deep to every comment or action made by Ex-GNR guys, creating this  VR vs GNR thing that for most of us does not exist. 

He has been there, done it and lived it. Give him that respect. They are not going to know who you or I are. If you lose interest in them, they are not going to notice are they?
 

I think it's obvious that he means VR is more technically prolific than in the wasted Guns days.  More "talented" was the wrong word to use though.  But hey, what do you expect him to say?  Things were better when I was drunk and my new band will never be as good as the old one? 

Now make an album to prove it.

Thats why you and the redhead have parted ways.

Thats fine. If you think you are more professional and play much bette rnowadays, I have no proble. They say experience makes you wise...

But that last part about the talent is comical. I dont care if you hate Axl with a passion. Old GNR skates circles around VR. Its not even an issue. And lets not forget someone named Izzy. Tlak about talent....
Duff, you have a nice lil band. Lets not drink too much of the coolaide....



  Sorry but that aint happening buddy. Not even new gnr will reach what the old band once did. FOr starters its a completely different musical landscape. And you also need a ground breaking album as well.

I dont have much of a problem with what Duff said other than the fact that hes putting down old gnr. Ill take a fucked up old gnr band over "experienced" VR any day. But as jarmo said. Its not that big of a deal. Usually everyone talks a big game when they have something current out. Too bad the music side doesnt match the chatter.

I havnt been following them closely lately but when I was the set/ and the Weiland chatter? was the same.

I could only imagine if Axl said something like this

we are not talking about the new guns n roses, we are talking about the old band that duff was in, and those shows were three hours.   why are you talking about the gnr that played in  2002?

 I have never once hear anyone from the new band say this band is more talented to the old gnr, not once, if you heard that then point it out. 

So why do you keep bring up the new gnr when this article is not talking about this?

One day Guns n' Roses will reform, because of the pressure on them. This is already written...

C'mon Duff, thats bullshit n' you know it man!!!!

i have been playing VR alote recently n seriously, the riffs are so plain n' the song structures n' all that shit are so 'oh yeah, not bad' , they sound like a teenage band. VR have nothing over the greatest band in the world, even the new band.

I just cant beleive that Duff, GNR are still the greatest band in the world mate, you've gotta realise that!!!!!!

not only 2hrs+ concerts, but without setlists. i thought most of, if not all, old gn'r concerts were done without setlists. yet they still managed to blow you away like it was all perfectly structured in advance.

true, but some of those concerts were sloppy as hell, meaning setlist, playing 3-4 songs then picking Patience early in the set just didnt work for me.

Actually, I've seen more than one show from the UYI tour, I was just using those DVDs as an example.? And I've spoken to more than one person who saw GNR during the 1992 tour and thought they sucked.? I wouldn't have gone that far, but one dude I spoke with said "Guns N Roses absolutely sucked cock."? Another guy saw them with Metallica and said they put him to sleep.


I didn't care for that show at all.? Acoustic sets and drum solos are boring as hell.


Whatever I'm smoking, I must have stolen it from you, because you seem too stoned to have actually read what I said.

Do yourself a favor and come up with something better next time, because "what are you smoking?" is the most hackneyed, cliched putdown out there.

First of all, the old Gnr definitely had setlists. I went to seven shows from before the UYI albums were released (Indianapolis May 91) until the Skin and Bones tour at the end. They mixed up the opener and a few other songs, but it was a similar set of songs, especially towards the end. The only off the cuff stuff you got was the cover songs or instrumentals they would play prior to the Gnr songs. Secondly, Duff is only saying that because they are better musicians now, ie they can play their instruments better because they are not fucked up. That is obvious-it is also obvious that their creative side has not quite caught up with their technical skills!  : ok:

now that i agree with.

The whole they dont use set lists thing just means they didnt play the same set every night in the same order.
Yes they played a lot of the same songs but most times they were in a different order and they played different songs different nights, yes they played the classics every night but they rotated about 5 or so songs each nite to make the show fresh.

Your right-it was definitely not as cookie cutter as the Velvet setlist...or the new Gnr setlist. But, the Velvet setlist's are very disappointing and quite frankly boring for a group so allegedly "on the edge." I still want to see them if they play a good venue in Atlanta. Wink Wink. :hihi:

Oh come on people, what's wrong with what he said?  As far as for Slash, Duff and Matt...yeah they are probably more skillful now than when they were on drugs. That's probably what he meant. Replace one certain member with this other guy (We all know who they are), and yeah, we would probably get a group that is much more technically talented than classic GnR ever was.

The first 2 pages of replies here are ridiculous... "VR suck blah blah"

First of all, Duff was actually in the original GNR, unlike anyone else here. That means that Duff knows what it was like to get through the tough recording process for UYI, the huge tour in support of it, and the struggle to keep the core of the band together afterwards. Did any of you lot actually stop to think that there may have been reasons for Duff being unhappy in the original GNR? Of all the original (ex)members, to his credit, he was the one that stuck it out the most, even after his closest bandmate Slash left acrimoniously. He obviously believed in Guns N' Roses, and was willing to do anything for it, until it got in the way of his health, which is a step too far. There were bound to have been pressures, stresses and strains throughout the whole saga, every one of those guys will tell you that.

This leads me to my second point. VR are a new band, but comprised of solidly established and competent musicians. There is no bullshit pressure from scores of yes-men, there is not the problem of drug addictions among band members seriously affecting the progress of the band in any great way (touch wood Mr. Weiland), and the band members all get along like a house on fire. VR is basically Guns N' Roses without all the negative points I mentioned above.

It is almost as if Duff is saying that his primarily good experience with VR so far is what the old days of GNR should have been like, had it not been for all the crap that ultimately blew the band apart. He is enjoying his role in the much tighter, cohesive unit of VR much more than he did in GNR, because he is able to focus 100% on the thing that matters i.e. THE MUSIC.

I don't see why everyone around here gets their knickers in such a twist.

I cannot believe the amount of disrespect commanded by Slash and Duff by so called Guns N' Roses fans... some people care way too much. It's only rock and roll for Christ's sake.

well lets remember this backing of duffs opinion if axl or a new member of gnr claim the new gnr is better than the old. OK

I find it very funny that VR fans were all up in arms when I an others claimed the new band is more talented than the old gnr yet when duff says that vr is more talented its ok.

Well good! I would fucking hope that Axl, after all this time putting together a new band and recording CD etc., is of the opinion that it is better than the old GNR. Otherwise what was the point of all the heartache when the band broke up?What was the point of spending millions of dollars recording one album?

It's only natural for people to want to surpass their previous achievements; Duff has high hopes for VR, (mrealistic or not, it doesn't matter, more power to him), and I should fucking hope that Axl has high hopes for the "new" band after all this time.

However, if anyone else in the "new" band says that they are better than old GNR, they can shove it. Quite simply because they were never in the old band, and thus do not have the same grounds for comparison as old dogs like Axl and Duff.

^
What about axl or dizzy, what if they say it?

Woo before I even read this topic I knew it was going to be trouble from the title lol..
I think what Duff said was taking out of context.

Im not neccasrily going to agree with him, but it IS his opinion, and Duff was in GnR, we weren't, maybe...well not even maybe but he DOES know alot of stuff we don't/didn't. Maybe that comment came from incidents we didnt see or we didn't know about or hear about....

But Im not trying to make an excuse for him, I think that comment, yes was alittle, out there to say the least. But that doesn't make it a rude/bad comment. Its just him stating his opinion. Which isn't a crime.....I think its alittle soon for him to say VR is better than GnR, I mean only one album, c'mon...but that doesn't mean that in future years VR will become something amazing like GnR...GnR was the perfect band at the perfect time..Velvet Revolver has to make a place for themselves if you ask me. They are a perfect band, but maybe just not at the perfect time...but they are a great enough band to become the perfect band at the perfect time...

So basically, lets not make Duff into a monster...its not THAT big of a deal...
Erin

"No, 99 per cent of the time. As players we weren't really maximising our potential. So, as far as aggression and talent are concerned, this is a much better band"

This was more the anchor of this statement. It was more from a sobriety point of view. Which, in that case, only he can be the judge of, not us.

Sorry, but the '92-'93 shows were not fresh, not at all. It was really boring to have the same seltist, the only change is that they play Bad Obsession or not and Nightrain is the opener or It's So Easy. With every concert they lost a lot of energy and you can't feel that they had a great time.

PS: I like the Tokyo DVD, they did so much worse concerts after that.

PS2: VR is a better live band that GN'R was in their last 2 years, but the '87-'91 GN'R was better than VR, although they were full of drugs and messed some songs and were worse players than they are now, but they were hungry. That's what won't come back, and VR has the maximum hunger that '40-years old milliomaires' can have but not as much as they had in 1988.

I mentioned the new guns because you need to mention the tshow length of vr, you seemed to pick the shortest show time they played because of not being the headliners at festivals.. Plus you're being a little kid trying to make this interview into something it isn't, you seem to take things to teh extreme when the answers people give don't suit you..
I tell you again, he feels they play better now because they're not fucked up, it doesn't matter if tehy are better or not then the gnr days, it's how HE feels/... He lived through both groups so he knows best..

Saying that I don't know what else you want?
On a side note do you take tommy's word that this new gnr is more advanced then the illusion days? Either way the point is it's just people having faith in their new bands and their material..Duff compares his playing to gnr because that's a band he was with the whole time..

He didn't sit there and knock axl, he sat there and basically knocked himself and believes he'll be able to be more productive as aplayer now because he's clean.. No one can deny what he says because only he knows.. Who is anyone to sit here and say he's wrong, regardless if he mentioned gnr.. ?

it's so sad to see one of my childhood heroes fuck up like this... he appears to be in denial, cause in reality they are totally lost without axl.

becuase he feels he's a better player now being he's clean.. Yeah it's such a shame, they need axl like a hole in the head.. These guys love to play, being with axl they'd be sitting in their houses waiting for years..

No one can make me feel different about this, one he's pushing his new band, and two he feels like a better player because he's clean, he used gnr as a reference.. I can't see anyone not understanding this article.. :o

Sad part is how everyone is up axl's ass when he does nothing forever.. That's what makes me sad of one of my childhood favs

Explain this then..... Why couldn't he say that the band is really talented and that they feel they're playing better than ever?

Explain to me why he has to say they are more talented than Guns N Roses. That's either pure stupidity (not realising that that is obviously offensive), or he was being offensive on purpose (which is disgraceful).

You tell me this, and then I'll understand the article.

@#$%Funker

Edit: Why is it that another VR v GNR battle has to start here. Why don't people discuss the actual point, that being the one above. If you have a brain you avoid making such comparisons unless you were doing it on purpose to wind people up.

I'm not duff, I can only i9nterpet what he was saying..
ok if you read this entire statement you'll see his is refering to himself, hence 99% of the times meaning himself
"That was an anomaly, it was a freakish thing that happened and the whole world caught on. It's a more talented band that we have now, much more talented than Guns ever was. There were Guns nights where it was magic, but we were fucked up half the time. No, 99 per cent of the time. As players we weren't really maximising our potential. So, as far as aggression and talent are concerned, this is a much better band. I don't know if another band will ever achieve the kind of world domination Guns N' Roses managed. But if they do, it's going to be us."

He mentions as players, he is talking about him n slash.. I read the entire article, not just the one paragraph dave posted(even though he posted the link, we know people are lazy)
I think he could have worded it better, if he meant the entire band he would have been bashing axl, he is saying as players they are better now.. He used gnr because this is what he gets asked in every interview, i follow the interviews all through europe they were always asked about teh old band.. It was used as areference because people know gnr, he's just comparing his days between sober n high.. I think way to much is being taken from this article.. He definetly could have worded it better, but I understand how to read between the lines..

he said this prior in the same interview

"Since the day this thing started, we've heard a lot of people saying it wouldn't work. But they're falling by the wayside pretty quickly," McKagan says. "We didn't have these huge ambitions. It wasn't about trying to top what we did before. Nobody can top Guns N' Roses.

usually I hate VR Vs. Gnr topics.a nd this one isnt an exception.
he said that they werent playing to their full potential before..now they are all sober and aware of what they're doing, so they can enjoy what they are doing much more than ever before,hence his comment.
He also said that nothing can top GNR, which is true....but hopefully VR ill come close...as someone said theis album is just to plain, but then that's what they wanted to do.....the wanted the album to be hard in your face- rock n roll
hopefully their next album they concentrate a little nmore on the song structures!!

Hey... my point is only about that one sentence.... which is what this topic was about.

The rest of what he said was very true and there was nothing wrong with it. The rest of the article was fine. Duff is cool.

However, that particular sentence was very ill advised and was a moment of stupidity on his part. We all have them I suppose.

@#$%Funker

Thats all fine and dandy. BUt to many old gnr fans, the album content doesnt match thier talents or potential.

Like many have said, and like I have said earlier, the problem is not the whole quote. Its mostly that sentence where he says Vr has more potential now. ANd that comment is pure stupidity. A fucked up GNR is 100x better than a sober, weve been through it all VR. You know why? Because a fucked up GNR had Axl Rose and a fucked up GNR had pure venom and agression. This band doesnt.

SO if you wanna go on sales, yea VR had done great. NAd no1 is saying they dont deserve it. The music is descent. NAd its better than most of the stuff thats out there. BUt as a fan of them, they didnt deliver for me.

I think Duff meant that as a live band they are stronger musicians in Velvet Revolver than they were in Guns N' Roses.  I mean Contraband is no way as good as Appetite, but in the studio you get to keep doing it until you get it right - live you only get one shot and if you are totally hammered, there is good chance you are gonna screw it up.  Guns were so screwed up back in the day that they were sloppy in a lot of their concerts - even their best ones.  For instance, the Ritz 88 show Axl himself said "the rest of the country might think we are the sloppiest band in the world - but I really don't give a fuck".  Axl has also said that they had to turn down Izzy's guitar because he would be in the wrong key or even playing the wrong song.  Duff totally butured the opening of Sweet Child in Paris.  Don't get me wrong I think VR misses Axl and Izzy's songwriting abilities and they aren't the dangerous out of control band that GNR were.  I think GNR was the better band because they were hungrier and more inspired and lived the we don't give a fuck attitude to the hilt.  But that also caused them to be sloppy musicians at times.  VR has good songs, not as good as GNR - but good, they aren't as dangerous - although Scott does add some unpredictability to the band.  But I think the one aspect that VR may be better, is being a more consistent live band.  Since they are not all messed up they can concentrate on the music and are a tighter band and better live musicians.  They might not reach the highest peaks that GNR did, but they always come to play and they aren't sloppy musicians.

The guys have the same talent they were born with. You can't just decide to have more talent later in life. You can only make better use of your natural talent. Maybe that's what Duff was going for with that statement. But no way do you start with Axl/Slash/Izzy/Duff/Stephen, and then go to Weiland/Slash/Kushner/Duff/Sorum and say that the second group is more talented. Nope. And I love VR.

Duff has a business degree now, its smart business to promote your band with shit like that. People who know Guns N Roses but may not really truly know VR may hear a statement like that and buy the cd.

Controversy sells records, If GNR and VR had a east coast/west coast type rap feud where they talked shit about each other and bashed one another in magazines it would set the music world on fire!

People love reality tv type crazy controversy, Duff says that and when Axl comes back if he says CB was ok but shows that Slash had peaked as a guitarist and maybe bashes a few of CB's songs

damn that would kick ass and really interest fans.

2Pac ran into Notorious B.I.G. backstage and told him something like "no hard feelings, lets make some money" and boy did they make some money!  their raps were great but is it a coincidence that they had their biggest selling records during that feud whereas before they were good rappers but never really exploded?


Feuds kick ass!

to bad tu pac n biggie can't spend the money now :hihi:

I don't think Duff's quote was a big deal.  He's not going to say, "We're a good band, but we never will be as good as we were."  I'm sure he just thinks that because they are clean and sober that they can be more focused and maximize their potential better.

Now, the world domination part, I don't buy.  I don't see VR or Axl's line up dominating the world like they did.  Both projects are really good, but when the original GN'R exploded out of nowhere and hit their peak, they were a force that couldn't be stopped until they stopped themselves...

I don't remember that any band would have dominated the world music above the age of 40. Maybe Queen did that...

Duff days VR are more talented than old Guns because they are sober now.

I can understand that.

Based on the GNR bootlegs from the new band and comparing them to the songs on Contraband, I would say GNR is more talented than VR as a whole.

steven tyler and aerosmith were around the same age axl is now when they released Pump, aerosmith one can argue were bigger in their 40's than in their heyday and GNR can go even beyond that


We have seen and heard VR so we can legitimately say that VR will never be world dominate. I think we have to at least hear Chinese Democracy before we assume whether or not Axl is capable with the new lineup.

We cant automatically say there is no chance, for all we know Axl has an album that makes AFD,Nevermind and metallica's black album look like a new found glory record

we cant damn axl before we hear it!

I don't agree D, you can't say vr could not be dominate by hearing one album, their live shows have been awesome, even though they were once gunners doesn't mean they don't need to go through all the steps to becoming a big band.. It will take time like everything else in life.. I'm not saying they will be huge but it's way top early to know.. They basically did a promo tour just getting their names out there..

I think the new album contraband is great, they had their loyal gnr, and stp fans to helpo give them a jump start, now they will take it from there.. SLither did reach number one on the modern rock charts, I'm sure fall to pieces will do the same.. The name vr is still an unknown to alot of people, so I believe a little patience is needed.. The album came out in june, it's september, not that much time..

Even though I am not comparing the two, just using it as an example, afd took a year to top the charts, scom was teh deciding factor.. I think all in good time things will happen, even though I think they're doing very well now..

As for aero compared to the new guns we'll have to see. permanet vacation 87, pump 88, etc get a grip were all pretty big albums for the group and the lineup never changed..? I think aero fit back in very well with the guitar rock and hair bands of that time, plus the run dmc thing was huge which broaden their popularity..

oh no mike my fault i didnt mean it that way. i wasnt saying they cant be world dominate, i just meant people have something concrete where they can form an opinion on Velvet Revolver, i was tryin to say that we cant assume that Axl cant be as big as his heyday till we hear something, then we can form an opinion.

with VR they are great and have the potential but if people dont think they can be they at least gave them a chance and formed an opinion based on what they have heard

but its premature right now to say that Axl cant reclaim the top of the world.

yeah D we can only wait then form an opinion.. I hate waiting!!! :rant:

I think VR is cool, I saw them live in Paris and they were great, but we need something more "global" with "chinese democracy", something definitely much bigger in the success. You know here in France, expet most of old GNR fans, the general public doesn't know who Velvet Revolver are. They don't absolutely have a clue. Nobody knows them. It's not like Guns n' Roses back in the days when Hits like knockin' on heaven's door, don't cry, november rain or you could be mine etc... were played everydays on radiostations here in France. Do you see what I mean? with" chinese democracy" we need something more global, just bigger. Only the name "Guns n' Roses" can do it again. Here, the general public knows who Axl Rose is. He is famous.

nesquick it takes time to become established, the group has only been around a few months album wise.. You can't expect a band to be global in such a short period, tehy may be from groups that were great but they still need to follow the guidlines like a nerw group to become known worldwide

By the time gnr was playing KOHD, and songs from the illusions they had toured all over and been out for years n years,.. I definetly think new gnr has the chance to go global very quickly because they're know all over the world, the name vr isn't known yet.. To be honest I'm supirsed how good vr is doing already..

Everything takes time..

Oh yeah, they're so lost that their debut album hit number #1 on the charts, went platinum within two months, and their maiden U.S. tour sold out venues everywhere.? Sure buddy, they're lost, aren't they?? ?::)

Now I'm not getting in to this VR GNR battle but come on buddy, you can't have "sold out venues" as a argument.  Alot of the places that Velvet Revolver played at in the US only held like 300 to 500 people.  Therefor, selling out a venue wasn't that hard to do for VR.       

yes and no. I mean "contraband" is way too "hard" to be popular in a country like France. It sounds too metal, too loud to be "global". It's not good enough to be appreciated by the whole general public. Guns n' Roses did it back in the days mainly because of the music wich was universal mainly because of Axl Rose songrwriting talent. He knew how to make the perfect sound that everybody could enjoy (teenagers, men, women, everybody). In fact Axl knew how to make a Hit. Even today, look at "the blues"...it could be an instant Hit. a # 1 pretty easily. It just sounds like a Hit: Piano, mid tempo song, a blues-rock vibe, and wonderfull to listen to. So it's not only a question of time, but mainly a question of music.

I agree the blues could be a big hit, it's very pop radio friendly.. It's the type of song all ages could enjoy.. I agree the illusions was an album for everyone, but it did start with afd best debut from a band

The reason gnr was big wasn't just about song writing, it was because of their attitude during a period in music where it was dominated by hairbands, their style and decadent lives were a breath of fresh air.... Their music had greeat writing, vocals and killer guitar.. It was a lethal combo..As for the sound not being able to move in certain areas, I would say I don't agree.. Believe it or not one of the most anticipated albums (number one in entertainment weekly) is system of a down.. I can't speak for France, but in the USA a hard rock band can easily be huge,..

???

I think you mean 3,000 to 5,000

Maybe it wasnt hard, but the fact that most sold out in mere minutes is kind of impressive.

Very impressive, and very smart.

The buzz they created with the sold out shows makes for great copy and helps bring a sense of urgency to to ticket buyer.

Just one in the long line of brilliant moves made by VR and management.

You nailed it, friend.  This is the most sensical argument I've heard yet on this thread.  : ok:


I agree with you on everything except GN'R's relation to hair bands.  Thing is, Guns basically had all the elements of hair bands at the time - big hair, loud guitars, tight pants, leather, a bit of makeup, and a debauched lifestyle dominated by sex, drugs, and rock 'n' roll.  The main difference is that Guns did it BETTER than anybody else on the scene.  Their style was far more raw and timeless, and they brought danger back to a scene that was dominated by the harmless likes of Poison.  Plus they had infinitely stronger songwriting, as you said.  That's why people still like GN'R, while most 80s hair bands are relics of the past and touring bowling alleys.

My main point is that in the 80s, GN'R fit into a scene that already existed - they just did it better than anyone else.  Today, there's really no bands similar to the new model Guns N' Roses.  I mean, Nine Inch Nails just isn't that popular anymore.  I think Velvet Revolver is much more timely than the new GN'R in that thier music is grungier (what with Scott Weiland) and fits easily into modern rock playlists.  So they're in kind of the same position as GN'R were in the 80s, with two differences.  Firstly, their music, while good, is not earth-shatteringly good enough to make them the biggest rock 'n' roll band in the world, as GN'R became.  Secondly, they're now 40-year old millionaires with wives and children, and this is a demographic that has trouble becoming the biggest band in the world.  Of course, that doesn't mean they can't become popular and influential - just look at Aerosmith.

Dave, I already implied in my previous post that I would have no problem with Axl or Dizzy saying that new GNR is more talented than the old band, because at least they have the experience of being in the old band as a basis for comparison, unlike the other guys like Tommy, Robin etc.

Duff obviously feels much more confident about VR's abilities and future than he ever did about GNR while he was in that band. It's only natural that he feels the way he does when he has had such a life-style turn around in the last 10 years.

Glad to see there are a few people with intellect on this board, I was beginning to worry... i wish ppl wouldnnt rip into things without using their head and really thinking about what ppl are saying - this kind of mis-interpretation of what ppl have said is exactly what the bands all moan at the media about!

Great post from Old Man In Chains

Please think rationally and dont swing from one side to another or be bias. I cant believe some are now saying, "i hate duff now, vr are crap cuz of what duff said" etc etc. Argh, the frustration! lol

Bob :-)

The funny thing is, if axl said the same thing about the new band being a more talented live band than the old, there would be a thread with over 100 posts bashing axl and cussing him out.

when people on this board claim the new band plays the songs just as good if not better than the old, the people defending duff in this thread are up in arms claiming that is the more abursd thing they have ever heard.

Yeah I agree with that. People would defintely bash Axl for that and let old members get away with that. This is why chinse democracy needs to come out b/c then music will do the talking. Although I do agree with Jarmo though any time some ones either starts a super group or making a come back they will say it's better than anything.

yeah very true. It's funny how so many VR fans are trying to tone down these remarks; let's see if they demonstrate similiar patience when axl proclaims that his new band is better than what GnR was at the end of the Illusion tour.

My thoughts on duff's foot in mouth disease:

* he needs to watch what he says because using the word 'talent' turns a commentary on the drug status of the late GnR into some egotistical and nonsensical comparison between the two bands. Talent is an innate ability; it is not effected by drugs, malaise, or ego. It is always there. To say that VR is more talented, considering 3/5 of the band is old GnR, essentially means that Scott and Dave are greater than Axl and Izzy, which of course is wrong.

*Duff is correct if what he is trying to say is that the old band at the end of the Illusion tour was a shadow of the band VR is now in terms of quality of musicianship. Since axl wasn't a drug abuser, duff should have spoken only about the music end of the comparison. Axl always ran hot and cold, I didn't see too big a drop off as the year went on. I do think that the new GnR looked and sounded better than the old guys during the middle and last leg of the UYI tour.

Duff has sold out.

I read in old interviews that he said it gets old and boring playing the same setlist every night and now with VR it seems that is mostly what they were doing.

He also said that Contraband was the most dangerous album they have worked on.

He also alluded to make us believe he thinks Contraband is the best album he has worked on.

I love you Duff Man, but don't be acting like VR is the best thing you have done Because I own "Believe in Me" and thats DANGEROUS

To be fair to Duff, he is currently in VR and wants to say whatever he can to make the band sound good.  And when he said they are more talented than Gn'r, he mentioned because of the fact that Gn'r was messed up on drugs a lot.  This band is not (except for Slash maybe :)).  Overall, there's no question Gn'r was a more talented band with Izzy and Axl, but live, there were times when Gn'r sucked because of the drugs. 

In fairness to Duff though, I think VR is a cool band and think they are a hidden gem for fans of real rock. But when he tries and sell VR by saying stuff like I stated above it just makes him look like a dumbass. If he wants to sell VR thats fine, but dont sell out GnR to do so. And play different set lists, he was the one who said it was BORING to play the same ones, I know Scott can't memorize the lyrics to Mr Brownstone, but atleast mix up the list.

It is really hard to believe that only a few people can read through what Duff is saying, He is claiming they are much better players now they are clean, than they were when with GnR, he didnt dis Guns, at all, Duff is a pretty intelligent guy,  he is just stating facts that him and Slash are beter players now than they were in GnR, he isnt saying they are a better band, read the quote it is pretty easy to understand.  You Axl nutswingers are so definsive, hey I hope he (Axl) does put out his album , but two things VR has going for them that old Axl doesn't have is an album out on shelves, and a pretty sucessful tour. Bottom Line.

i agree with dave on the axl point, i cant understand why everyone is so sympathetic to the old members when in interviews they basically admit to havin as much fault as axl.

Axl was clean they werent, i dont know many of u that personally on the board, but have u ever been a clean  guy and u hang around people on drugs? it sucks and is so frustrating.

they quit axl also which makes it even crazier to bash axl.

VR kick ass, new gnr kick ass i will always love axl better than the old members but it doesnt mean i dont still love the old members just not on the same scale as axl.

well except Matt he has turned into someone i dont care for.

looks like duff has been at the drugs and alcohol again :hihi:

OK, now everyone, CALM DOWN! Let's think this through a bit. Here is something to consider. Duff probably gives ten interviews a day, everyday, week after week, month after month. He said one thing, to one interviewer and now it is being dissected and analyzed by legions of GN'R geeks (myself included!).

I don't think it's fair to take one comment made off the cuff and then use it as proof that Duff? stating as fact that VR is better than GN'R. I am sure that Duff is proud of GN'R's legacy and does not believe that VR is a better band than GN'R. He probably just meant in the interview that now that they are all clean, they can focus better and put on a tighter show than when they were all fucked up.

Duff's wrong in saying that Vr are more talented than Original GN'R. But he was right in saying that they weren't maximising their potential. Drugs and Alcohol ruined that band and probably stopped them from doing more marvellous things.

hahahhahahahaha,what a ballshit
i'm so disapointmenti i n duff(he was my favorite old gnr memeber),but he is so stupid
it same like  michael jordan or zinedine zidane said"i'm more talented now then i was talented before 15 years"
stupid duff

I've never read something so stupid, how does a basketball player that has a prime with his abilities compare to a musician that can get better as time goes on? There is no such thing as age in music for your abilities, sure if he was 60 or 70 his fingers would have some trouble playing, but being clean and being a physical specimen would only make sence that he can perform better.. Your sports comparison is total nonsence..
I guess with your way of thinking then axl is no where near what he use to be being he's old?

I couldnt' even understand what that basketball analogy was trying to say. Thanks for somewhat of a synopsis.

I agree with that, And it's funny cos Matt said in inferno (finnish mag) that "we 3 (slash, duff, matt) were the good guys of GNR, and that they always gived 100% in their performance....Now Duff is saying that they were fucked up 99% of time

No shit man. It's not hard to figure out.

Some of you guys act like a bunch of fuckin' old ladies on this board sometimes!

Axl Rose, Buckethead, RObin Finck= 10000 times better than Velvet Revolver.  I admit I did buy the album for myself as well as my girlfriend, and I love Contraband.  But I always seem to bring up how much better the new GN'R is than VR.  We all know how obsessed davegnr2k with the new gn'r and how great of a band they are.  I would have to agree they are the greatest around.  VR comes in second, but not even a close second.

Update: Buckethead is out.

And please, don't make it a Nu-GN'R vs. VR thread.

But BH will still be on the album,so there is hope.

gunsnroses-axl,duff,izzy,slash,mat
velvet revolver:slash,duff,matt and two new guys

then duff said that velver revolver singer are more talented than axl
and duff said ballshit because he is jealus of axl

He never even knocked axl, why make it more then it is.?

Lets just say he lived it, and feels the three ex gunners will be more productive clean then fucked up, which is the case, regardless how good they are..No doubt they're playing awesome live

He said: ".. I don't know if another band will ever achieve the kind of world domination Guns N' Roses managed. But if they do, it's going to be us."


Sounds like a challenge to me Axl. (Knock the shit out of 'em Axl).

yeah, that'll be the day ::)

Chinese Democracy starts WHEN??

It's amazing the hatred towards the old members, most likely he meant bands out there now, I doubt he sits around thinking of new gnr..Besided what's wrong with being confident in your new band, especially when two original and one replacement of the older gnr is in the band... He probably says this because he feels being striaght they can top their best from being fucked up... Duff just has faith in the guys, I'll tell you one thing they're tight as hell live and matt sounds great on ther drums..

Doesnt that say something? Doesnt that show that although they appear to be the victims, and appear to be the "good guys", that even some of thier old fan base sees through that and sees maybe the truth?

I find it very interesting how although in the public, Slash and Duff are considered the "good guys" and Axl is the villan, yet when you concentrate soley on the fanbase, it is split pretty evenly. Meaning, you have the people who dont view Axl like the public does, and people who dont view Slash and Duff liek the public does....

To me it shows that the truth has caught up to Duff and Slash. People read all the old interviews and form an opinion, then they see the old lineup change thier tune frequently and say questionable things. Then they see Axl, although quiet, has been consistent with what he says over the years.
The main problem the hardcore gnr fan has with Axl is the waiting of CD. NOt his personality or what he says.

I find it interesting how it has all unfolded over the years.

Kind of like Kerry and Bush. ;D

Yep and when the chips are on the line....you know you want Axl..I mean Bush leading the way.

YG, I shouldn't even worry aboutt eh dribble people say these days, I think there's hate towards the old guys because of teh wait for cds, trust me if the thing was out ages ago no one would be fighting over these petty issues.. Alot of people jumped sides during the lawsuit issues, and after vr emerged.. How many times have I read CD isn't out because of duff nh slash, they have become villans too, I think it's unfair when it doesn't sem to be the issue, you can do an entire album and someone might be able to stop it from being released, but it would be done as far as it could be..

I like both groups, I'll be the first to admitt that I didn't like the change, when you grow up with one gnr, there is no other.. My only beefs with axl is how everything has went since 2002.. I've been tough on him, but not because of his singing, or his selection of guys, more on the forever wait.. The idea that he could be a little more into the fans (he knows there are sites devoted to cd talks) and give an update in some way every so often.. Those are things I can't understand, wether people accept the aswers he gives or not, it's part of being famous..

There's a site which is their official site, I can't understand why we can't get a nobody to run it and have little bits of info posted there every so often, or even make it the official site for selling gnr merchandise..Sorry I drifted,,..

I can onl;y speak for myself, I follow the vr interviews and I don't think the guys are doing anything bad which would make them be dissed so bad, sure they had drug problems, and whatever else.. The group is over, and it's not in either groups best interest to have a reunion at the moment (vrt is doing good, and would be a diss to have any ex gunner run for a reunion, they respect their band mates, and for the new gnr, there's way to much invested, so many guys and such a wait.. ) both need to prove things on their own..



To sum this mess up, I've always like the members of gnr,  I don't think the interviews are anything so bad to dislike someone so much.. I think it's out of frustration for the wait of cd, and as for axl my only beef is the lack of solid info, and all teh waiting, once everything hits it'll all work out, and people will ease up..Sure people will like one group better, I'll just try and like both and give each album a big listen before I say anything :beer:

NuGNR is not existent right now, they don't exist. They are nothing, like a de-clawed cat or a de-fanged dog

VR is better than nothing, therefore VR is better than NuGNR : ok:

That makes VR better than The Beatles. They must be the best band in the history of recorded music!  :hihi:




/jarmo

lol @ jarmo.

just the fact that he is comparing the vr record which i can't even remember the name of and listened to 1 time to appetite for destruction and use your illusion 1 & 2 shows that duff isn't in his right mind. i used to like the guy for not turning on axl like a bitch, but judging by his recent comments in the media i'm starting to believe that he is just mad that he didn't stick around like dizzy did. instead he wanted to rush out this piece of shit record and put out ridicilous solo projects. it's a hard fall, so it must be a bitter thing to watch guns n' roses rise again without him on board.

Exactely thats my point.
Also when you really look at it, the wait hasnt been that long, simply because of how the whole project has evolved. But thats for another thread.

I understand. But is it that big of a deal that GNR havnt updated us during this whole time? We are still here. We are still anxiusly awaiting the album.
Axl knows the gnr fan will check out the album. So by revealing little tidbits of info he is taking away the mystique that has been built up over the years. The fact that the band says very little fuels the mystique even more.
Axl and the bands main goal is to provide the fans witht he best dam possible GNR could create. Lets say CD is a masterpiece and is considered by fans and media an all time great album. Will you then be syaing, O I wish Axl could have communicated more during the yrs?
GNR know we are here. They know we have been frusterated and anxious. Just hang in there.
When the album is out, and GNR are out in the public again, they will be much more fan oriented{in terms of website}



I think Axl summed it up best in Albany. But ill put it in the context of old gnr as a group...

Old gnr talk a big game butr when its all said and done its just not there. I particularly mean in terms of music. They say how Axls ideas were crazy, they just wanna rock, yadayadayada, u know the rest....yet when they put out thier album,IMO it doesnt match up to what they are capable of or have been talking about. Thats my biggest problem with the old guys...

I would say it's the most intelligent post in weeks, but I can't say it, 'cause I really like all your comments and like your fight against stupidity. How sad you can't make others think....

So I agree with you and it's good to read comments like yours.  : ok:

God the Axl ass kissing is out of control.  CD is coming out in November, November becomes February, February will then become May.  It never ends. 

If it wasn't for bootleggers, you'd have Oh My God and and the VMA medley.

You people act like Axl is the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Isn't that weird that on a Guns N' Roses board you might find people who actually like Axl? Who knew!  :o



/jarmo

 He is. We will see him walk on water shortly after Chinese Democracy,.

 He is. We will see him walk on water shortly after Chinese Democracy,.

You will see him walk on water, because Chinese Democracy will be released when hell freezes over.

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Good one philly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


the only thing better about Duff now is his apperance, im very impressed with how he looks now and how well he changed his appearance.

i like velvet revolver, i like scott weiland BUT axl would still be more entertaining sitting on a stool singin show tunes than VR are.  VR are entertaining, i have their new york ballroom show on dvd *thanks skippy* and it rocks but better than GNR? are u kiddin me?

What??? ???

 :rofl:
this contradiction is nothing new
they are always changing their stories
its obvious that either only one or the other is true
and oh.. they don't play wasted anymore
uh-huh... yeah... right

there is so much speculation in this thread about what Duff 'meant'
what he said is very clear





 :hihi:? Another GOOD one YoungGunner? : ok:
yet, Axl will still always get the blame from some fans for GN'R's demise? :no:



again, he makes it clear that he is not specifying 'live playing'... he said this band is more aggresive and more talented
whats up for argument about what he meant?? ::)

:hihi:



it is NOT far fetched to conclude this as KillingVector and OTHERS who read his comments concluded...

for that matter...? shouldn't we really talk about 2/5 of the band as Steven was the original and definitive GN'R drummer?
so Scott, Dave, and Matt are better than Axl, Izzy, and Steven....?
besides Duff maximizing his potential now and Slash displaying more talent now than he did when he was in GN'R (god I almost 'gagged' on that phrase).
*goes to play NR and Estranged.. and DTJ... and SCOM Slash parts* ;D

S-tone Quote: just the fact that he is comparing the vr record which i can't even remember the name of and listened to 1 time to appetite for destruction and use your illusion 1 & 2 [end Quote]

If you have only listened to it once. Does that make your opinion as valid compared those who have listened to it since it came out?  You have potentially had the best part of what? 13 years? To listen to those albums. So it will be hard for even CD to measure up to them.

.................................................

younggunner Quote: I think Axl summed it up best in Albany. But ill put it in the context of old gnr as a group...

Old gnr talk a big game but when its all said and done its just not there. I particularly mean in terms of music. They say how Axls ideas were crazy, they just wanna rock, yadayadayada, u know the rest....yet when they put out thier album,IMO it doesnt match up to what they are capable of or have been talking about. Thats my biggest problem with the old guys...
[end quote]

They have continued to work though. They have worked away from each other for a good number of years and between them. They  have played a variety of styles.  Released a number of albums, have many gigs under their belts.   Always given time to the fans after gigs spending hours after the gigs with fans and fans appriciate that.

But what they are doing now musically  is a result of being apart.  Growing up on a personal level. Wanting to be a band again. Wanting to work with the chemistry they have got together. But in a different environment away from the stress's and excess' they once had between them.   I'm not saying they weren't part of the problem in GN'R'S demise. They have admitted their faults themselves.

The fact; which is a hard one to over look. Is that 4 out of 5 of the original GN'R, have over the years, sorted their differences. Because i really don't think it's a simple old GNR vs Axl - thing.  I think they all pissed each other off at some point.  And we have read various bits and pieces over the years that suggest that.
But they have all been able to put their differences aside and have all played together since they broke up. 

You can't always hold people to everything they have said in every interview over the years.  People live, experience, succeed, fuck up, get angry, then learn from mistakes and othertimes they are chilled and talkative.

They (ex-GNR) have moved on, they know what they want to do, where they want to be and they know what stress' they don't wan't to have around them.  They have made a great record and they did it with no fuss.   I really don't see the - Slash didn't play aswell as he could have - thing.  I see him trying to create a new band.  They have a shared vision on things  and if it's to be a true band, then you have to give them time. Scott doesn't want to be fronting a GN'R either.  He himself has ...not held things back.  But is trying a difference in his approach - so i see it anyway.  He hasn't come on in drag yet lol  I'd love to see peoples reactions to that lol


The next album has the potential to be something really exciting because they are finding their feet again together  and with two new people involved.  The confidence of having a good successful album and live dates behind them will make a big difference imo. 

 This is not all deciated to you youngaxl lol  I went off on one slightly there lol You know what its like dude.     

How do you know he isnt?

Yes they have. And thats great. BUt for me personally none of that work has gotten me exited or said wow, they are living up to their potential.
If its an image/public thing, then yes they have been out here doing whatver.

Yea, Axl chose to remain out of the spotlight all of these years, I atleast know he hasnt been doing nothin. I know that he and the band have worked extremely hard in not just making music, but have been working hard to make meaningful music that we once enjoyed. I know that music is thier number one concern and not the past and who they are today.
And on the 2002 tour Axl and the band hung out with fans as well. But Ill give you that they arent a fan friendly band in that regard. They are tehre to do one thing, put on the best possible performance they can, anything after that is gravy....

And thats great. But what does that exactely mean? How come Axl is frowned upon if he has chosen not to be involved with them? Does that mean hes selfish and cant let go of the past? Why cant it just mean that he wants nothing to do with them for whatver the reason? Why do people have to choose his friends? Hes a big boy.
Yea, it would have been nice if they could have all settled their differences. But this is not fairy tale land. People have issues with other people, people feel betrayed, etc etc....
I understand the old lineup has settled their minimal differences. I just dont get why pquote] eople get on Axl for not wanting to get back with them.? Hes doing his thing and the old guys can do thier own. I just dont need them telling me that their current band has more potential than old gnr because they are more wiser. Ill take a fucked up old gnr anyday of the week

Ok and? Im glad you think its a great record. If it works for you then thats great. BUt to the majority of the world its not a great album. This album or its song will be discussed in a few yrs from now. The reason we are expecting so much is because of thier past and their capabilities.


 They can all the time in the world. BUt when the members themselves proclaim that this band and album reeks fo danger, etc then you have to step up to the plate. You have to walk the walk. You talk all attitude and a big game, you then gotta do it.
How come Slash didnt need time to create one of the best band ever with his debut album? Now he needs time because?
Im not syaing you have to make a brilliant album every time. But when you say things you have to step up. You cant just say tehm and expect people to buy into it, no matte rhow big you once were.



I woulkd agree only if they werent playing GNr {or even STp} covers, and have Izzy Stradlin come out jamming on stage. You cant have 4 ex gnr members on stage and expect the fans not to think about old gnr, etc

lol, its cool. I understand. It happens, I go off and little rants many atime.

NOt to sure about this, but wasnt everyone saying how Slash came out on stage all wasted a few months back? I particularly dont care. Its rnr, but since you asked I thought id reply.

yes indeed.

Axl can release a record with full of his own farts and it will be better than VR contraband!

Contraband is very disappointing record!    >:(

Wow, I didnt know someone could ACTUALLY say that lol...but hey its all in opinion, and I think thats how we should look at Duffs comment...Im a fan of Duff, always have been, always will be..
Erin

I always had the fear that some of you think this way. How fuckin' sad.  :(

The joy I get from Slither and SuckerTrain Blues, has far exceeded the enjoyment I get from Madagascar, the Blues, or Chinese Democracy.  It is just a matter of opinion. 

But really the bottom line is there is no Chinese Democracy.  There is Contraband.  And I like Contraband.  When the new GNR actually brings something to the table mabey we can talk. 

well thats how duff feels, he feels tighter and with vr and is feeling the energy with them, i think he means as a unit being talented on stage with a tight set. i can't believe he would even think that as for music wise, gnr could be topped, by even themselves or by even the new gnr. he was right on one thing when guns were on they were magical, i can't even imagine the feeling of having the power to make a whole stadium full of people rise to their feet wanting more.


rock n' roll

I really don't know what Duff is talking about when he says VR is more talanted then GNR.  Its almost like a marketing plot.  There isn't anything memorable at all about Contraband.  None of the songs really stand out as true classics and its not entertaining when you hear Scott Weiland singing but in the back of your head, you wish it was Axl.  It doesn't matter how much talent is in your band, if you can't creatively write music then your screwed.  Axl can accomplish more by himself then VR can accomplish without Axl.  There is a hell of a lot of talent in VR but Contraband just plain sucks.

Speak for yourself  : ok:

I would agree, however I wouldn't say that Contraband sucks.   I think that Velvot Revolver is a good band, but if we are getting critical, then here it goes... 

There are no songs that really stick out.  I have talked to a lot of people about this new band and asked what they think.  I get the same answer from a lot of people.  "It's good, but it's nothing special".  I would have to agree.  I like the song Slither, but it's not going to be a song that people remember down the road.  Now I'm not saying that VR isn't talented, I'm just saying that after 1 album, they haven't done anything that any other band out there hasn't or isn't doing.  They don't set themselves apart from anything out there today.  This is the reason I have grown to love and stick with Axl.  I truly think Axl has the ability to write music of this sort (something that can really stick out and change music), and he also has that distinct voice or voices that make him one of a kind.  People will always remember songs like November Rain and Sweet Child O'Mine (songs in which would have never been GNR if he wasn't there).  Also because of the way he sings, a lot of people tend to remember GNR's version of Knockin On Heavens Door as apposed to Bob Dylan's (and this can be debated, but I think you guys get my point).

So all in all, I think Velvot Revolver is a good band, but not anything special.  On the other hand, I think wherever Axl is, that project can be special.

peace and rock on!   
     

I agree with just about everything you said. With GNR I get this special feeling and excitement knowing that they have the potential to be something big yet different than all the others.

In summary...
VR rock, GNR will rock the world

Thanks younggunner.  I have read some of your past posts, and I think you and I are on the same page.  Agree on a lot of the same stuff.

peace

I thought Duff still had a little sense left in his drugged out, jelly-brain.  'Guess not.

Do you lot have one ounce of brain power between you ?

VR IS mostly the old GnR lineup... and when you play music for 20 years, you get better....

sooooooo... twat heads... VR IS more talented than the old GnR.  Because Matt, Slash, and Duff are more talented than they were 20 years ago.

Overall, they are a better band.

Sure, the tunes aren't GnR's top standard, but playing wise, they are all better than the old  GnR lineup.

And one other thing ... VR DOES rock harder and better than the new GnR.  Fact.  Because... hehe... funnily enough... yeah... funnily enough they are a ROCK BAND!  the new GnR is NOT.

If they were more talented than the old band then why didnt it show on contraband? As for contraband vs new gnr, the new gnr with BH is much more talented than VR.  I have been saying the new band is more talented (live wise) than the old gnr for a few  years now and I got bashed left and right, now that duff says VR is more talented than the old gnr (live wise) but now that duff says it, you guys all agree.  Yes and Duff was in the old band and I was not but its pretty easy to tell how well a band plays live or not.

I just cant wait until axl or dizzy say the new band is more talented than the old because the thread will look much different than this.

Dave, lets think about all this...

the new GnR, hasn;t proved themselves to be more talented yet...

they butcher... YES... BUTCHER, most of the old songs.  You are a fool if you can';t hear the way they destroyed most of the old songs.

VR play GnR songs better than NewGnR.

And I am sorry, but Contraband is FULL of better material than the new stuff Axl showed off.  Full.

I know it's opinion based, but so is what you are saying.  We all have our opinions.  But I am right :D

Do it once more and you'll be out of here. I've told you a few times already about our rules and with your post count I'd expect you to actually understand them. Obviously I was wrong.

I don't care how long you've been here, obviously you have a hard time accepting one of the basic rules we have and that's not a good thing.


/jarmo

Duff is comparing themselves to what they were like 15 years ago....of course they are better players now! both more skilled and playing better live since they're clean! is it that hard to understand?
and dave, it won't be the same if Axl or Dizzy says it about the new band, cos they will be comparing the new guys to the old, while Duff are comparing him and the others to themselves 10-15 years ago. but we all know you won't understand what I just said so, blah.

and thanks for trying Dave - S.I.T.N, but just give it up man, no matter how right you are, nothing will ever make the other dave see things the right way when Axl is in the picture. :peace:

I get fucked off by people not reading and understanding stuff....

sure I slag people off if they act like twats.  Fucking hell... people should get a grip.

I'm off.  I can't be arsed coming here anymore.  Guns N' Roses are doing fuck all, and I am getting sick of reading narrow minded cockhead's talking shit.

I have had a nice time talking to some of you.  Unfortunately,  to many people on the board have forgotten what made GnR so amazing and have forgotten that GnR was GnR because of it's members, not because of one fucking person.

I hope you all have fun.

Bye.

Dave

Glad to see you leave

Sorry to see him go, aside from the insults I agreed with many of his points.

hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.........

{when Vr show their talents on an album, then Ill say they got better}

Sorry to that guy to see him go. However, New GNR don't butcher the old songs, they play it at their own style. If you like it or not, it's just a matter of opinion. Heck, not even VR play those songs good or GNR after the demisse of Steven and Izzy sounded good. Well, the UYI songs sounded the way they supposed to be, but not the AFD songs (specially the drumming.) And to Dave-gnfnr2k, like I told you before, B'head is a good guitarrist, but he is not the savior of GNR.
He maybe really fast but some songs that he shred don't go with the songs i.e. WTTJ, ISE and RQ. On the contrary his NightTrain solo is amazing. If this band is prone to succeed, it has to be A BAND. And yes, I have listened his cd's are nice to listen but not amazing. As for Duff clame, well it's his opinion.  :peace: :peace:

"Get that guy outta here!? Are you listening to me Mr. Security Man?? That guy right there!? Gone!? Yeah!" - W. Axl Rose, Rio 2001. :hihi:

Vr is a fuckin awesome band! It is very simple, if you want to see their performance , go their show , they're incredible! Duff says, and i agree with him , that old gnr is less talented than vr, Why ? just because VR is a real band ,  not any of them is more important than the others , everybody has his word for the songs!! I saw the making of mtv music award 2002........nothing is done without axl , but axl can do lots of things without any of the musicians . old gnr were all fucked with drugs , there were less talented than VR because the musician werent clear when the played. The talent belong to personn who are concious in what they do! when you are stoned you don't fucking care about what you're doing. I remember not long ago i was stoned ( yeah i know its bad) and i playd guitar it was fuckin awesome!! i find some riff that are really cool ! but you'rent satisfied becoz it's not 'you' xwho created it!
So duff don't fucking care about the old gnr nd i agree with him : gnr is dead . New gnr is not gnr . it's just an other band " Axl and some fuckin good musician" who are going to release their first album " chinese democracy".
Peace : ok:

hey kayoss i do that everytime someone gets axed!!!!!!!! dang it!  :hihi:



i dont agree that u get better and 20 years later u are a better musician etc, the proof is in the pudding, whether slash was holding back or whatever i think even the most faithful slash follower would have to even agree that contraband isnt anywhere near slash's ability.

you compare fall to pieces solo to NR or SCOM, i think some people forgot how great slash use to be.

and Velvet Revolver would have no chance of playing old GNR better than New GNR.

ive said it a million times, the new band plays the fuck out of those songs, Paradise City at the VMA's was the most amazing thing ever and the new band can come closer to playin the old songs on point than scott could ever come to singing em

honestly could u see Scott tryin to sing welcome to the jungle? or garden of eden or Coma?  and sing em with axl on key on register and not dull the songs out by droppin em down an octave?


i like contraband but i agree with PEEPS he had the best point of all, nothin on Contraband really sticks out at all except YGNR and LTA but the rockers are just all on the same level, which is what makes it impossible to choose the next rocker single,they are all average to good songs but nothing great.


I admire people that stick up for VR cause i do love that band, but compared to W. fuckin Axl Rose its just an unwinnable argument in my opinion, we are talkin about the greatest frontman of all time period!  you cant fuck with it, u cant!

I agree , he has many valid points, which in my opinion are correct, but i guess, if you dont like to kiss Axl's ass around here you get the boot, guess known of them got pricked by Axl at a show for not showing up.

what are u all talkin about? that guy didnt get the boot, he was insulting a fellow member and go warned, Jarmo does that, he gives u chances but there are rules on the board and it makes this board the best. He didnt boot that dude, he just told him to stop insulting.

lol - Sorry, D.  I had honestly not noticed.

Keep living in your bubble.  It must be fantastic when you don't have to face facts..... : ok:





/jarmo

An older musician plays music better,but in most cases,loses the ability to write. Why? Well simply because their life is good. No alcohol problems,no drug problems,no women problems,they are rich people with no worries.What is there to write about then??? They start making songs about pink,their favourite colour or about their stiff upper lip.

That goes for VR too. Their life is good and peaceful now,so,even if Slash can play guitar much better now,we'll never hear him produce another song like wttj or scom.

Axl is the exception that confirms the rule.It seems that his life has been far from peaceful in the last 10 years.The band breaking up,the work of creating a new GNR,the pressure on him to deliver,and it seems that his love life hasn't been all roses either.
   He isn't an ordinary songwriter either.Of course,he wrote songs about sex,drugs& Rock N' Roll,but the themes of his songs arevery varied and original.That's why CD won't be some aging rocker desperate attempt to get back in the spotlight

You must? really forget how the old guys played the songs live didnt you?
The new guys play the songs just as good if not better than the old band.
Just listen to nighttrain? for example.
The new bands version is much better than the orginal, the problem with people that say the new band butchers the old songs is you are comparing the old bands studio versions to the new bands live versions and you just cant do that.

Id put bostons version of nighttrain against any live perforamce of nightrain you can find from the orginal band.
Take its so easy from boston and put it against VRs live version, the VR version isnt as good.

And Contraband wasnt that great.
Madagascar and the blues are better than anythign off of contraband, and oh my god, riyadh and Cd are better than any rockers on contraband.

You really think anysong on contraband is better than madagascar and the blues?
Most of us have been listening to these two songs for 4 or so years and we are still not tired of them, do y ou really think in 4 years you will still be listening to any song on contraband.

You think VRs was...Scott in particular?


So youre saying Axl has problems.? Well, I guess that only applys to him and the VR guys have had absolutely zero problems in the past 10 years.? ::)


If you say so...It seems like your point is "Axl is the exception to my inane rule simply because hes Axl."?


From the same guy who said...


Hypocrite? 

:yes:


Yes, Mr. Music Is Subjective....there are some who like songs off of Contraband better than anything by the new GNR so far.?


And since when did your listening habits start affecting the opinions of others?

Maybe I am in the minority, but I'd say LTA and YGNR are easily as good as Madagascar and The Blues.  I still like Madagascar and The blues, but haven't listened to them for awhile.   Maybe I will be the same way with LTA and YGNR a year from now; we'll see.

As for the rockers, I want to see what Axl comes up with before I compare.   I will say that I must be the only one who doesn't like Riyadh; I think it's one of the worst songs GN'R ever.  Chinese Democracy isn't bad, but I think there are better hard rocking songs on Contraband.  Same with Oh My God...

I will also say I've seen both versions of GN'R live in person and on bootlegs.  I'll agree the new band can rip Nightrain up; they do it very well.  I get tired of Buckethead's constant "Look at how fast I can play" approach, but he does rock on this song.  The new band may have a little more full sound but then again, they have more people playing.  I thought they were great in Columbus 2002, but would probably put that '88 Ritz show still at the top. 

As he said...Axl is not an ordinary guy. Hes unique.

Yea but the old members dont write about that stuff. They just lay down music. And hand it over to Scott...

dave I really don't like the blues and maddy, I like the songs off contraband much better..

I was never really into the big epic ballads, never crazy about keyboards or the piano with guns..

I feel with the use of three guitarists they could do much better.... If I had to make a list of the rockers like OMG, silkworms, rhiad, and cd, I'dd definetly have them as weaker gnr tunes, plus the synths, and industrial sound is not why I loved gnr.. I hope the album isn't like those songs..

Put it this way when I heard omg in 99 I was like this is different, then was like geez all these years and this is what we get? I hate sound effects like that..

Then that crushes the foundation of his theory, doesnt it?

No, because he is saying with age, they wont be able to write music not just lyrics liek they did when they were younger/hungrier...

Then you might be on the wrrng board. Gnr will have all out rockers as well as other types of songs. It iwll be  amelting pot so they say....

btw omg is an awesome song, as is silk worms...I htink Rhiad as a whole is the weakest, but i do like the guitars

You must? really forget how the old guys played the songs live didnt you?



Doesn't that line right there, strengthen Duff's statement - which started this topic?

No it does not since I implied duff saying Vr is more talented meaning not just live, duff IMO was always talking about writing songs since its been said by he and slash VR is the best stuff they have ever done. 8)

I think Duff has a valid point. At least playing wise. I mean him and Slash are probably better players than they were 19 years ago or even 12 years ago. Same with Matt. But as far as overall I love contraband but the songwriting on any gnr album is better. But any song on contraband is better than the stuff I have heard from the new gnr. Well at least that's my opinion which means anyone who freaks out is being stupid. And the exact same rules go for what Duff said because it is HIS OPINION.

...

Because their lives were "peaceful," which weve discovered isnt the case.  That was the foundation of his thoery.  And he listed some complications in Axls life that "proves" hes an exception, when anybody could easily do the same for any member of VR.   


Well similar to how some express disbelief at how anybody could possibly enjoy VRs songs more than Axls, I have to admit to having similar feelings for those who dismiss Contraband and call "Slikworms" awesome... :-\

I really dont get on peopel for liking CB. If you like it great. Its music everyone has an opinion. I know many dont like silkworms or whatver, I could careless. It gets me excited, I enjoy it a lot when I listent to it. I dont sit there and say gee golly Booker and the gang say Silkworms is bad, I cant like this.

I think it's rather obvious what Duff means, he and Slash are much better players and have honed their skills to a greater degree.  Personally, Duff no longer has the annoying "clank" and Slash has evolved as a player far more than I could have ever hoped.   Matt's a better player than he was circa '93 and isn't confined, limited or restrained by the majority of VR material as he was in his days in GNR.

Slash and Duff can claim anything they want but It's all about fucking Axl Rose  : ok:

So why is it such a stretch to say the new gnr are better players than the original gnr?

I think VR is a great new bandf out there right now and I'm sure they will be around for ahile. I kinda shocked that   Duff siad, something like that. They will never reach the level GNR were at and going to be again.  They both are very talent fully bands to get me wrong but it's just not going to happen.

I don't really think it's that much of a stretch to conclude that either, though Axl's new guys don't have too much creative experience collectively, it's still a good assembly of musicians who played the old songs pretty damn well in '02.?

However, if you lined them up today (less frontmen and sans keyboard players from GNR just for comparisons sake) 4 on 4, Robin, Richard, Tommy and Brain vs Duff, Slash, Matt and Dave, that's pretty much a no brainer as far as creative resume's.

I disagree in part.  Tommy is more talented than Duff. Tommys solo work is by far better than Duffs solo work.
This bad was much stronger with BH on co lead but they are still pretty damn good without him.
I think robins talent is really going to shine when we hear his work on CD.  His blues solo is awesome IMO.

To be fair, although the members of new gnr solo work is excellent and stands on its own merit, they are now in a band. And they have to mesh as a band. And they have to make material that meets or surpasses what the old lineup did as a group...

Duff's solo work is horrific, got to go with Stinson on that one.? But, within the make-up
of a group, Duff's far exceeds Tommy (so far).? Tommy wasn't a creative force in the "Mats and we have nothing to go with GNR.? Nod to Duff.

I liked BH in GNR but I never felt he elevated the group, (that's just my opinion) musically, the disebodied schtick attracted me to him.? He's an original, that's for sure.? ?The fact remains he's never wrote one song within the body of a group that's remotely memorable or etched in the fabric of the musical listening public...yet.

Nod to former lead guitar player.

Robin is what got me interested in New GNR (Rose, love him or hate him, is always interesting, GNR or not).? I loved his stage presence in nails and enjoyed his interpretations of the old tunes in 02.? He's just got to prove he's got the creative goods to carry the band guitar wise.

we wont know how well this new gnr has gelled until he hear all of Cd, but if tommys contrabution is anything like he did on his solo stuff, then wow

Call me when Tommy, Robin, or any of the other new guys write anything that touches SCOM, NV, PC, Estranged, Jungle or any other epic song Slash and Duff contributed to writing. So what if you don't think Duff's solo work is as good as Tommy, again, when his band releases songs that are better or more lasting than the aforementioned then I will come on here and eat crow.

This is the concept that I am not sure to this day you understand. Snakepit sucked, Duff's band sucked.....but you put them, Axl, Izzy and a drummer in the room and you get those epic songs. With the old guns they performed as a the sum of their parts, not individuals. You may think that so and so is better but who cares when it was Duff who played the Bass on all your favorite songs. It wasn't tommy or bucket or robin or anyone else you tout as being more talented.

The reason duff and slash's work was so great in gnr is because Axl pushed them to be their best. If slash had his way that SCOM riff never would have been developed. slash also hated working on estranged.

So if axl can pull that stuff out of them, i cant wait to see what axl can push tommy, robin and bh to do.

That's cool how you sat in the sessions to see how Axl was able to pull all that stuff out of Slash and Duff. So what if Slash didn't like playing Estranged, didn't mean he didn't right all the guitar stuff you lust about, he just got bored because the song was so long. To give Axl credit for that is ridiculous. SCOM, so what if he was screwing around, it was still his genius that came up with it. I think you give Axl much to much credit for all that band did. Out of all 70 or so songs the band released Slash, Duff and Axl played on all of them. You can say it is his doing those songs are great till the cows come home, but that is completely absurd. That is like saying Slash is responsible for Axl singing the way he does because he pulled it out of him with his great guitar riffs and without them the songs would be shit. This "Axl s the reason the songs were the way they were" mentality is a little dillusional.

I think it just eats at you you can't somehow erase Slash/Duff from those tracks because admitting you love those songs means admitting you love them for their music as well and I know that is very hard for complete unabridaled Axl lovers to do. So to diminsh their impact on the song you just chalk it up to Axl insturcting them how to play as your saving face for admitting you love Slash and Duff because they played the guitar parts on all your favorite songs. When you are sitting there fantasizing about Estranged rather than admitting you love Slash for his riffs in the song you think "Thank God for Axl because without him I wouldn't have this." Not, "man, without Slash this song wouldn't be half as good as it is." The whole argument is just not rational.

This is where the discussion goes downhill.  I don't disagree that every artist needs a creative foil, a dynamic with a musical soul mate if you will....but...

We could also conclude Axl's been lost without without Slash, based on their output and success outside of their own partnership.

We wont know that until CD comes out but if it never comes out, then you would be correct.

That will be answered once we hear CD

No it won't, at least not on this board. Proof of that can be seen on the varying opinions of OMG or any other new song released. I don't think any of them touch old GNR on their best days. They're good songs, but nothing we haven't heard before formula wise out of Axl. Other peple think some of the new songs are among the best songs ever written by the brand name Gun's n' Roses. That disparity is not going to go away strictly because we get a new album.
 
We can already tell you ahead of time the people on this board who will say the album sucks and is wildly overproduced and those who will say it is better than anything they have ever done and the new band has burried the old and the album hasn't even been released yet.

This board has turned into the U.S. political structure, two wildely polarized sides who refuse to admit as a matter of principal that maybe the other side is right as it will then reinforce the fact they had wasted 7-8 years on this board arguing for something that didn't turn out to be true. No one is going to do that regardless of what that album sounds like. Good or Bad.

Yep.  But until then...

awesome analogy naupis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

only thing on that one post naupis, it isnt that axl is the reason that slash created great solo's but it is possible axl maximized slash's potential by not lettin slash settle for good enough.

some of the contraband solos sound like good enough, whereas axl wouldve made him do it over and over till it was a beast of a solo.

u can use a sports analogy here, its the same reason a player can do horrible on one team and get traded and become a superstar on another team if the coach knows how to motivate and push his buttons.

i listen to the blues and the solo is good but i can only imagine a slash like NR,estranged solo over top of it, thats the only thing stoppin the blues from being classic, the lyrics are some of the finest ever written by axl but its missin that memorable solo, robins is good but not classic.

slash admitted himself CB was recorded in what 2 weeks? so yeah for 2 weeks the solo's are good but imagine if he had really took his time like he had to with axl?

How do you know this was ever the case?


Yeah, and both Illusions were recorded in 30 days....LIES in a day..... :-\ 

30 days to do the illusions? come on dude!

maybe slash intentionally dulled down his style some to fit into the new bands sound?

not dulled down in a bad way but to evolve and update the more modern flavor of VR.


if axl didnt push slash then why would slash quit? if slash was free to play whatever he wanted i dont think there wouldve ever been any problems.

Remember axl talkin bout how he was wantin to make a slash record but slash refused to work

how come people dont hold that against slash and constantly make axl out to be the dickhead?

if axl was gonna make a slash record then what was the problem?

Scott's style is not to do those epic type songs. Find me one song on CB where a minute long Estranged /NV solo would fit within the context of what the band was trying to do. Doesn't mean he isn't capable of more, its just not the sound their band was going for. I guarantee if you put a gun to Slash's head he could easily come up with a huge epic riff because he makes riffs, its what he does. He didn't do it on CB because it wasn't called for, and it would have seemed out of place given where the band went musically. His solos are shorter and more streamlined. I like the epic stuff more, but I can at least see it wasn't a lack of talent or guidance that produced shorter solos on this album, but the musical tastes and direction of the band.

Besides....what does he really have to prove? 50 years from now they will still be playing Jungle, NR, SCOM and PC and it will always be his guitar on those songs and he will still be an icon. He tried something different on CB, nothing gained nothing lost. I hardly think though he suddenly forgot how to do epic riffs because Axl wasn't in the room playing wet nurse for him.

"We did the Use Your Illusions, which was a double record, we did the basic tracks for that in 30 days, and it was 30 tracks.  Put the guitar solos on and it was done." - Slash

And its well-known that the second side to LIES was done in a day.

So time wasnt really the factor.  Slash has said that once he comes up with a solo, he goes over it a few times and it rarely changes.  He gets what he wants quickly.


Its hardly as simple as that...


Yeah...never quite understood that.  I dont recall saying Slash refused to work...but that when something "worked" Slash would back away from it.  Now the syntax of Axls written endeavors is often confusing and bizarre, but this is a concept that could have benefited from some explaining.  What does it mean?  Slash would come up with a great riff, and then go, "Nope...this is too good"?

And when Axl says "Slash says he didnt want to work that hard," what does that mean?  Because history shows that Slash is anything but lazy.  While Axls the one not releasing anything, missing shows and cancelling tours...Slash was always doing something.  So laziness isnt very plausible. 

I find it hard to believe that Axl really wanted to make a Slash record. 

I find everything very weird, cause u know really on behind the music, slash didnt really give a clear cut answer either.

personally i think they just got burnt out on each other, its happened to many great bands.

I think they spent way too much time on the road for the illusions, they needed a break to get away from one another, not dive right back in the studio

i think bein burnt out caused some tension which caused some conflicts that both axl and slash were to stubborn to work out.

I still believe if the old band could get in a room for 2 hours and be moderated they would work out their differences.

im hoping that if axl ever does release CD that some of these questions will be answered a little more clearly, but then it goes into a presidential type debate where u have to choose a side on who to believe.


has axl ever gave his side as to why the old members left?

Dude, you forgot the people that appreciate the old band, but wants to give this new band an opportunity. Besides, it's a matter of opinion.   :peace:

How do you know it wasn't.

I'm on the wrong board because I don't like certain part's of gnr's music?? Is there no fans that prefered the afd/lies era? He desides to slip in industrial rock, so I should just love it?? Gnr was about something, there was a certain sound and style to their music.. He just decides to change the sound of the group, it won't be everyone's favorite.. Look at groups like aerosmith, and  metallica, I'm sure their older fans are more into their early stuff, everyone has a right to like a certain era and style and be a fan..

Silkworms is absolute shit, one of the worst songs I've heard... If I wanted industrial, I would have been a prodigy fan...

The bottom line is duff is full of shit, and deserves to become a bigger laughing stock than Axl is for a bullshit laughable statement like this. VR is more talented than GN'R is/was. Bullshit. Let's put it to the general public. I'm thinking anyone with friggin ears would say GNR. If VR are more talented than GNR, lets see some proof. Cause there sure as hell isn't any on Contraband, and there wasn't any in Manchester.

I don't believe they're better, just better musicians like I feel he was saying aka being clean..

As for the general public, you'll be suprised how many people don't like gnr period.. I remember the argumetns in hH.S. about nirvana compared to gnr, etc etc. We love gnr, but there are tons of people that aren't into axl' voice.. I've also been bringing contraband to the gym I got to, and people have asked me about the music because they liked it..

I think everyone is going overboard with duff's stamtent, so glad tommy is planning for world domination by spring.. It's just words hyping their bands : ok:

This is so freeking true.  Slash deserves a lot of credit for being the one who came up with all those riffs, but Axl deserves a medal for being the one who actually had the balls to put them on the album.  It's like Slash didn't believe in himself, but Axl was there to tell him that it was good shit, and it can be even better.  It's like SCOM for example, yeah Slash came up with the intro, but if Axl wasn't in charge, it would have never been on the album.  My point is, Axl knows a good thing when he sees one.  C'mon you have to give him credit for that.  I give Slash credit for his ideas, and talent (even though sometimes he was just playing around) but I also give Axl credit for seeing the brilliance in Slash.  That is a talent as well!     

I'm so glad axl did everything, imagine these guys didn't have him, how would they use the bathroom.. Being a boss doesn't make you talented, it just means you had to have your own way, and just like at work when someone annoys me I just do it so they shut up..

I love how everyone knows what happened through all the years, axl said they didn't want to play the ballads.. Yet he gave such thanks to slash's playing in estranged.. Two massive ego ballads as in estranged and november rain, must have sucked for the others..

I'm sick of this thread, making duff out to be the worse person ever from a few words, and then everyone else is only good because axl pushed them..

Slash has done so many good solos outside of gnr, you make it sound like he can't play.. WIthout slash those solos wouldn't exist, so axl could have pushed from here to china and the songs wouldn't be the same..

And 50 yrs from now no1 will be talking baout his "focused" work on CB. Noone is syaing SLash isnt capable of making epic solos are even great hard rock solos. BUt they havnt shown up since he left GNR. Is it a coincedence? EVen if he doesnt want to do that stuff, he will be remembered when he went all out.

Thats why GNR are the greates band in the world because they have offered and will offer different kinds of music to its fans. And you can take what you want. Thank GOd they dont have the same type of albums and music.

That comment was made like last year and he was joking around.

Now go ask the non gnr/slash fan what great solos they have liked since he left GNR.

Being a boss, or in Axls case, a leader steers the band from good to great. No1 is takign away what the old members did. NO, SHit without their talents and creative musical ability we would never have those great solos. But without Axl they wouldnt exist in the first place. The point is that  Axl was the main force that drove the best out of those players.
Its obivious that Slash and the gang are AT THEIR BEST when Axl is around. Now lets see if that theory works with Axl.

You just don't get my point.  I agree that Slash is a great guitar player, but I believe Axl got more out of him.  You just don't want to give Axl any credit do you?  And yeah, we do know a lot of what went on because we are big GNR fans.  Ofcourse we don't know everythiing, but we do know that Slash didn't like Estranged, and we know that if Slash had it his way, SCOM wouldn't have been, and we also know what Slash's Snakepit sounds like.  I'm not saying it is bad, but it isn't that great.  And I love how you point out that Axl praised Slash's solo work on Estranged.  Why wouldn't he?  His solos were brilliant.     

And by the way, being a boss-coach-teacher-director-producer, is a talent.  Maybe you have had bad experiences, but there is a reason why they have that title.  C'Mon, you can do it...........give Axl some credit :)

I never said axl wasn't a huge talent, I just feel like everyone is getting into this the ex members can't be as good without him being there to push him.. I don't agree, contraband isn't for everyone, but to me I see a very good all around album, has the rockers and ballads with good solos..
I think people are missing the fact that this band is not gnr, and they're not trying to be gnr.. You don't need to have huge solos to get your playing across..Scott is their lead singer, plus a new rythym guitarist that both might not want to go in the direction like gnr's style.. I really believe scott has his style, and that as a group they're just doing what they want. Slash proves (not like he needs to) that he can do big solos in Ain't life grand, those are kick ass guitar parts..

I also feel they have nothing to live up to with their project, vr is a band doing their own thing.. I don't know what it is, but it may just be shorter rockers n ballads.. Take a song like slither I love the solo, and the live solo is so much better then the studio, it's extended..

As for the duff thing, I was just saying I hate how people are trashing him over one statement, not like he said something about axl.. He sat there and said he was fucked up most of the times, he bashed himself.. I find it hard to knock someone that gives us music with few delays..
I don't say tommy's full of shit when he says things like, gnr on steroids, and how the music is beyond the old guns, and speaking of world domination in the spring..You have people on the board saying the new stuff is better then the old, and praising cd before it even comes out.. The myth is bigger then the actual songs. He's just hyping his band, just as duff is.. Only difference is duff lived through both bands and is out there playing the material..

Finally this topic is so big, I wish some people(first timers) would just read a few old responses and just agree or disagree.. This topic is just uselss already.



a non slash fan wouldn't know any other solos.. Plus the utter lack of cd is making people bitter towards the old guys..

Here is one thing a lot of you slash fans are totally missing. They are now all claiming (duff, slash and izzy) that they were messed up a lot during the UYI days, and that axl was a so called dictator and always wanted to control everything.
Well it seems to me the reason Axl had to take charge is because the others were too messed up to know what was going on and axl had to make sure everything kept running smoothly.  Have any of you ever tried working with someone who is always fucked up on drugs or booze?  Axl was the only person who didnt want gnr to die, duff, izzy and slash didnt seem to care since they could keep themselves clean, and then they all quit the band one after the othre.

I think axl deserves some credit for trying to keep the band afloat.

Well said Mike!  I understand you better now.

 : ok:

They cant run away from their past. You can keep saying how they want to keep it simple and all that. To an extent thats fine. But tehn peopel cant grant them right and Axl wrong for not keeping it simple. If Axl went under a different name would you hold him to lesser standards than what he did with GNR? I know I wouldnt. I would expect the same great work or better. Why want or expect less.
And its not the fact that CB is simple, its that they could have done much better and still keep it "simple" but they only did it in a few weeks, so I guess its unfair to expect much more...

What bothers me is that he said they have more potential now then before. Or whatver he said in that extent. Again, Ill take a fucked up GNR over a more wiser GNR any day. WOuldnt you>?

He never said that, it was Zak Wylde

When he said the music is beyond old guns...he isnt saying its better. Hes saying its going to farther levels musically than old gnr did. Basically they started where old gnr left off and continued on. How is that hyping your band?

Spring Domination was in joking context.

I think the new songs are great. But it wont mean anything if the album sucks. The songs we have heard are the songs that make an album great. They arent the singles/hits yet to the hardocore fan they are appreciated much more than the general public{like iso,estranged.etc}
Cd has to come up in a very big way. It has to be as good or better than the old material. And if its everything peopel say it is and if they were able to mesh all the unigue talents into 1, we are in for a special album.

Yes, for now...
Exactely. Because outisde of GNr slash hasnt come up big.

lol, everything seems to come back to Axl. How bout peopel are starting to realize that there really is 2 sides to the story and that SLash and the old band arent the victims as they once were percieved to be.

Its the constant changing of the stories and the way they speak that is making osme fans bitter. The fact that they keep adding fuel to the fire only divides thier fan base.
But overall your correct....When CD is released all of the nonsense and pussy shit that goes on here will go away.

This board and the others are going to go to another level. There will be too mcuh to talk about when CD is released. Too bad CB didnt really give us much to talk about other than comparisons. The threads on CD will be great. I cant wait to see discussions on the songs,lyrics the bands...its oging to be priceless...

very well said Dave, ive been tryin to make a similiar point for some time now.  How were Duff and Slash gonna make important business decisions if they were fucked up all the time?  I think that led to Axl getting the bands name etc, Here is yet another twist

maybe axl was afraid that Duff or Slash would overdose and die therefore he needed the name just in case that way he wouldnt be tied up in all sorts of litigations over the name with family members etc of slash and duff?

Slash and Duff admit how bad they were so this isnt impossible, Duff's pancreas exploding couldve killed him, Slash admittedly went blue in front of an elevator

i think axl did what he had to do and slash and duff have themselves to blame.



Writing music with people i know for a fact that it is possible to get more out of a player than they normally would give.

I have a friend and when he writes on his own its unfocused and just a thousand ideas going nowhere

when he writes with me, i smooth out his ideas, shape them, give them direction and am in his ear to try this and try that.

His stuff comes out like a monster when we cowrite.

So it's possible for someone to bring the best out in you.

I play basketball in leagues etc.

Ive been on teams where i may score 4 points a game and just be a shitty player, but when i play with my friends im unstoppable at times and score around 15 or 16 points a game, im not saying its necessarily true but it is possible for someone to get more out of u.

How did they do afd then, how did they do lies, how did they perform, how did they do the material.. I'm sure they were fucked up, but they weren't always to an extreme... I've worked with tons of drunks, and they were great construction workers.. How many countless bands did super work while stoned or drunk.. This is nothing new, you make it sound like because axl was clean he was doing everything.. They even said his apperances were few and far between.. He missed the shows, he threw the hissy fits, yet he was the one with the clear head..

The man has given 5 songs in 12 years,,yet the old members were keeping him down.. Nothing visable to me has ever proven the old guys weren't doing their jobs... Of course there were extreme cases, but I doubt it was all the time, probably more on the downtime..

As far as everything running smoothly, never seemed to be any big problems.. I never heard of the ex members missing shows, in fact you always hear about where was axl..

I bet if? the guys stayed they would have died from drugs n drinking just for the fact they wouldn't have anything to do.. What would the new gnr do without side work?
The members were albe to write their own albums and form band and tour, doesn't that show anything?

As for the slash didn't do anything amazing solo wise because it's not remembered is wrong.. When ever artists do things that aren't big(known projects) outside their known bands they don't get the same recognition

By the way dave what are you just an axl fan, you say slash fans,, Don't you like the entire old band?

Read the Axl-interviews. He never said anything like that. After you read them you'll get the point that he always wanted to control GN'R. Not Izzy, not Slash, but Axl.

I have read all the interviews and what do you think the reason axl wanted to control gnr for?
Because the other members were too high or drunk to be able to make decesions with a clear head, that is what I think the reason was.

Slash and Duff cant have this both ways.
And their statements about  them being too messed up and that is why they are more talented now may hurt their court case against axl.  Axl can just point out those interviews and say he had to take control because they were too messed up and maybe axl will even claim they were asked but they just dont remember.

How many countless bands through out time made amazing music while being drunk or high on heroin? Did they all need to sign their rights to the band away?

All your favorite musical talents were fucked up in some way at some point, it doesn't mean they weren't capable of doing their jobs.. I've never seen any evidence that shows they couldn't perform, your albums are proof as are the live shows... I really couldn't care if tehy were drunk on stage, this is rock n roll it's pretty norm.

Because the other members were too high or drunk to be able to make decesions with a clear head, that is what I think the reason was.
How does one with mental problems and a drug n booze problem perform during the afd era, how does he make choices?

I disagree, but that's it. Your opinion against my opinion. I think Axl wanted to control because he thinks he's an alpha+ male and cannot tolerate if someone else tells him what to do. AFD wasn't Axl's album, it was GN'R's album, and it's their best. After Lies Axl thought he is the second coming of Jesus and forced everything through GN'R while others' songs were left out. Later decided to rid of the band to rebuild his own GN'R. He's been working with them for 4-7 years and wasn't able to delvier anything, although he decides in everything. Well, he doesn't seem to be able to control the band - if that was what he wanted then we'll enver hear CD.

What songs were left out? Its funny you say that since axl had to twist slashs arm to work on songs like nov rain and estranged.  I have never once heard slash or duff ever say axl was not willing to work on one of their songs.
If its true please give me a quote.

I disagree, but that's it. Your opinion against my opinion. I think Axl wanted to control because he thinks he's an alpha+ male and cannot tolerate if someone else tells him what to do. AFD wasn't Axl's album, it was GN'R's album, and it's their best. After Lies Axl thought he is the second coming of Jesus and forced everything through GN'R while others' songs were left out. Later decided to rid of the band to rebuild his own GN'R. He's been working with them for 4-7 years and wasn't able to delvier anything, although he decides in everything. Well, he doesn't seem to be able to control the band - if that was what he wanted then we'll enver hear CD.


Are you saying that songs like Estranged,NR,Don't cry,Coma,Locomotive or Breakdown were forced onto the Illusions by Axl?  And why is that a bad thing?Appetite was great,but if the Illusions would had been 2 more AFD's,than GNR would not be the legend that it is today.

I said it before and I'll say it again. Contraband is the clearest picture of what would had happened to Guns N' Roses if Axl didn't get his way: Good rock band,good songs,good riffs,NOTHING special.

I say Estranged, Yesterdays, My world were surely forced onto the UYI albums, maybe even Breakdown, Dead horse, Shotgun blues, the second Don't Cry and November Rain. Some of them (Estranged, NR) are really great songs, some of them belong to the less great songs of the old GN'R. On the other hand, don't forget, that Locomotive and Coma are Slash's songs. I don't have a problems with the changes in the musical direction on the UYIs... but Axl hears a band dying and so do I. The others' didn't want that double double album, one of the reasons of Izzy's departure was this, not to mention his problems with Axl behaviour.

I disagree with your opinion on Contraband: it's not the same band and if they had only one intention it was not to make a GN'R-type record.


You surely know the AFD and UYI-era demos just like I do. You can say that they weren't good enough, but don't forget that neither GN'R's other demos sound like the finished songs.
More...He mentioned a lot of songs (without titles) that he wrote with Duff and Steven and were planned to be on the UYIs. They didn't make the record. Slash said he wanted to record a song which he wrote in one of his previous band. Later he wanted it to be on TSI. Axl nixed it. Slash had some riffs of the first Snakepit album, but Axl didn't want them (and there were others he wanted but in a different form). Before Slash left, they still had rehearsals but they were working on only Axl's material (without Axl, of course, who doesn't have the habit to go to rehearsals), 'cause Axl didn't want their (Slash, Duff, Matt - Gilby had been fired by then) ideas.

Is it hard to believe that GN'R was made by 3-5 guys, not noly 1?  :-\

Imagine, name the one album gnr is know for and gets all the praise? Every big countdown always has afd, try and find the illusions.. Those albums were alot softer, they attracted more women with those monster songs

level headed..
1 million for don't cry
2 million for November rain
3.5 million for estranged

Gnr went somewhat pussy and big budget during the illusions..

Sorry bro, but Illusions completed GNR as a group.  Turned them into a super group.  All good rock bands have very good hard and slow songs.  Very few bands are very popular and have success with just hard stuff.  Zeppelin, Def Leopard, Aerosmith, Metallica, all have slower type songs.  Without the illusion albums, GNR wouldn't nearly be as big.  Now I'm not saying those albums are better than AFD, but they really helped their success.    Therefor, I wouldn't say they went pussy, I would say they went intellegent. 

metallica's best albums were all before the black album, they did so many killer albums by keeping their sounds, now they have gotten the sellout label, same as aerosmith... Zepplin is just amazing.. Def lepp went so pop witrh songs like photograph, and pour some sugar on me..

Afd was a great gnr album, illusions were more of what axl wanted.. don't cry, nr, estranged, coma, my world, very selfish tunes.. I'm not debating the quality of those songs, except my world, just saying they drifted as a whole.

Afd was raw, reckless, n untamed, illusions have their moments, but the stand out trakcs were very soft to the average fan.. That's how I feeel though..Your antrhrax, metallica, megadeth fan was into the afd sound, the softer music listener prefers illusions

The reason for AFD's bigger popularity is simple:It can be understood by any headbanging moron. The Illusions are far more subtile and intellectual.

I'm truly sorry for all the GNR fans that don't understand the Illusions and think Guns went pussy with them.

lets see keyboards,bongos, pianos, harmonicas, etc,, .. I just think huge ego self indulgent songs weren't what gnr was about.. They went from wild to tamed.. Same reason I don't like the blues n maddy, very self soft and selfish tunes.. I like the illusions, I just don't think change always means better. Alot of gnr fans say this NOW, it wasn't the case then

You're probably a Nirvana fan  :)

If having nevermind makes you a nirvana fan? Having a preference in albums doesn't mean someone is wrong. I think nirvana is very overrated for the record.

Other people think that UYI's popularity is simple: they became a pop rock band. They add that AFD are far more subtle and intellectual and honest. I really love the UYIs, but in the past 2-3 years I've hardly ever listened it.

I can agree with what you're saying., Sorry if I came off a little crazy, the waiting to hear the album is driving me mad,... Instead of just listening to music it has become this think-a-thon about everything in the past..
All I ever wanted was just one album, I have been waiting since the illusions  :crying:

i love the illusions and i love appetite, whats with the u cant love both styles of GNR?


how did GNR go pussy when axl wrote NR before he moved to LA and dont cry was the first song ever wrote in GNR?

GNR are a multi skilled beast

if they had made afd over and over they would be ACDC a great band but ACDC arent on GNR's level

Diversity is what seperated GNR from the other bands, the fact they could kick your ass and touch your heart and soul at the same time, something thats very rarely been achieved in? music.

In GNR u get Coma,WTTJ,PC? without Axl u get serial killer,and the contraband rockers

with SLash you get estranged and November rain, without slash you get maddy and the blues

which one comes closer to duplicating success?

thats a rhetorical question no one has to answer that!

Well said  :yes:

I understand d, I was only saying I prefer hard rocking songs like afd, but I do like the illusions, gnr has always been my favorite band..,...

I just never thought we'd be without new music for so long.. :'(

come on, the Illusion albums were great (especiallu use 2 for me because it was my first gn'r album). I absolutely love long epic songs.

Translation:

With Slash, you get great songs that are released and available for your listening pleasure.

Without Slash, you get crappy bootleg recordings of songs that could be great, but may never see the light of day, and may sound completely different if they do.


Slash's Contraband rockers, because they actually got released.? Meanwhile, Axl's beautiful songs collect dust on the shelf, meaningless to the entire world, save for the few who have heard subpar bootleg recordings.? Great songs can't duplicate shit if they're not released.


You're absolutely right, because anyone who gives it any thought will reach the same conclusion I reached above.

So what happens, Dizzy, when the album drops? Everyone of your arguments above will become obsolete. ;)

Dizzy the album will come out, the thing is slash and vr just half assed the album while Axl is taking his time by making three albums at once.
You really think the album will never come out?

If Axl releases an album, then you can balk all you wish about who's more successful.? Until then, he's accomplished nothing.

That was not the question, do you believe the album will come out, lets say in 2005?

This has gotten out of hand....love you who love...hate who you hate! I mean Duffs opinion doesnt have to effect yours, but that doesn't mean our opinion should effect his, nor should we call him wrong, or him call us wrong....

Cant we all just get along lol
Erin

Hey All,
Been awhile since I have posted here, personal problems kept me away. Some of you may remember me and some may not. Things really haven't changed around since I have been gone, not sure if that is good or bad. I don't really have anything to add, I just think it is sad that this thread has turned into what every thread turns into. Which band is better new or old? In my opinion that is a question that you simply can not answer until the new band has put out an album. You can't base an opinion on four or five songs, and as Dizzy pointed out one was the only official release. Lets just drop that line of discussion. By the way Ms Duff we share the same name my name is Erin too.  :D

I think Duff is wrong but well he is in titled to his opinion  just as I am to mine ,so it's all good. :peace:

How do you know they half assed anything, you have no clue what they wanted as a group.. Just because the album for axl takes longer and longer doesn't mean it's getting better n better.. I think contraband rocks and that's all that matters... They played what I like, hard rockers, and ballads..

As for the album, there is no true indication it is coming out besides some same old banter from dizzy n tommy.. They can say whatever, but until there's an actual date, single/video then it's not.. Sure it will eventually come out, and I will also one day be old, these thing are inevitable

And even IF (if) Chin Demo comes out, and it does well...
what then? another album in another 12 years?
I honesly believe after the whole Chin Demo thing ends that will be it.

VR on the other hand could potentially release a new album every year, they're not short on creativity or the desire to get out there and play.

hehe see there, you get it! lol  :yes:

And LionGoddess...isn't Erin just an awesome name haha...now if you middle name is Lea then Im gonna be freaked out haha...

Erin

last night before i went to bed i watched the "fall to pieces" video.

i was so moved, i was thinkin, this is so great, nothin could top this right now

I do love Velvet Revolver and maybe ive been over critical at times because i do love Scott Weiland and Slash's solos are very good.

Immediately after watchin that, i watched the VMA 2002 performance.


HOLY FUCKIN SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

now at times axl was off a tad but damn when he was on he was the greatest thing ever!? People who trash his voice are crazy!? the wttj opening scream, his wails during Madagascar and the high screams durin PC were just amazing.

when buckethead and company kick it in at the end of PC, old band, new band that was some of the greatest display of musicianship ive ever heard in my? life, right before the "i wanna go section* when bucket is finger tappin*? i was blown away! and ive seen this 50 times.

Madagascar after all this time still really moves me, especially the music, the guitar licks right before axl starts his first scream and right after before the verse starts, fuckin unbelievable!

So Duff is right, VR are great and are easily the best band out at the moment outside of the RHCP's of course, but GNR just are on a whole nother level even when they arent at their best and to me it isnt even close.

yes im an axl mark but i cant deny just how the VMA performance made me feel, i was in awe 2 years later!

D, I couldnt agree with you more. I watch teh Vmas every now and then, and it blows me away. Evne though Axl wasnt at his ultimate best he and the band flat out rocked. You can feel the enegy and power from that performance.
The opening to Jungle is amazing...Maddy is all around perfect. I think that version of MAddy stands right next to the Rio version. And PC the band flat out shines. They played the fuck out of that song. Its scary. The best part was when RObin and Bucket meet at the front and just jam away and then RObin leans into him before he leaves. I love that part....and ROund 1 is always cool as well....

Its gets a bad wrap but overall it was a great performance....

VR can deliver many albums,so what???  If their debut album is good,but has nothing special on it,what makes you think that in the future they can do better?

I'd rather have a Chinese Democracy once every 12 years than one Contraband every year.Assuming,of course,that CD is as good as it seems to be

Saying it has nothing special is just a opinion, now both slither n fall to pieces have become number one on the mainstream rock charts, they booted linkin park off, they knocked usher off in america when contraband was released.. I wouldn't say they haven't released anything special..

It's not for everyone, but to say something like you'd rather have a cd every 12 years over a cb every year is foolish, I want music, I don't want to sit around wondering.. You can put what ifs in the cd player..


D, nice statement, I loved the vmas... I sometimes watch it, but not as much, I get depressed and think of all the things that might have happened.. :'(

What was supposed to happen? You keep bringing this up. I suggest next time you watch the VMAs, let the tape run and listen to the Axl interview again. Most of your questions will be answered...

Axl had (and still has a masterplan): not to release CD until he's alive. Don't fool yourself that Axl didn't want to release CD in late 2002-early 2003. He surely wanted but something (or some things) happened, otherwise he's crazy.

HE didnt...
He said after they do the north american leg they would go back and do some more RECORDING. That tour was supposed to end early January. If GnR were to release an album then it would probably have been in the summer or the fall of 2003.

He still said recording. Meaning it wasnt nearly finished....

obviously the album wasn't done and wasn't in the shoot so to speak. The tour was a chance to get the band some experience together in front of a crowd and lay the groundwork for some publicity. However, the cancellation coupled with buckethead's departure has pushed the project's target date back, perhaps 15 months. I think we were all mistaken when we thought the 2002 was a spark for what was to come.

I'd rather have a Chinese Democracy once every 12 years than one Contraband every year.Assuming,of course,that CD is as good as it seems to be





MADMANDAN - Velvet Revolver gave me 2 great concerts this summer in Philadelphia and Atlantic City, and a kick ass CD.  So judging by the Summer of 2004, Velvet Revolver outshines the New Guns N' Roses. 

He said do some more recording and then do an american leg of the tour, he definetly didn't mean we wouldn't have anything two years later..
Did he tour north america to warm up? Don't fool yourself he didn't get out there from 2001-2002 just to go away and let the others do solo careers.. Who knows what the reason was, lack of confidence, or buckethead, either way there's no way he planned on taking this long.. Dizzy mentioned him tweaking old songs, that might have been something

You couldn't be more egocentric if you tried.

Good for you!!  If VR furfills your need for great music,there's nothing wrong with that.They ARE a good band. But they just don't do it for me

VR do it for me but just on a different level than GNR.

People always ask me how i can dig GNR,bon jovi,Prince,RHCP,elvis presley,country music and Rap/R&B at the same time.

each gives me something different that the other doesnt.

VR are great, i like listening to them when im driving,working out or bike riding.

However they are a level below GNR.

top level

Guns N Roses,Bon Jovi,Prince,Red Hot Chili Peppers,Aerosmith

level just below meaning i like them but arent on the same plain as the above artists

Velvet Revolver,Limp Bizkit,Linkin Park


VR are very enjoyable and are great but compared to GNR they are like how STP was compared to Nirvana or 98 degrees compared to backstreet boys for all u boy band lovers out there, u know who u are! :hihi:

GNR are more talented simply cause they will be more diverse, it takes more talent to do multiple stylings and do them well a la Prince, than it does to do basically the same style over and over.

Of course he didnt think it woul dbe another 2 yrs. SHit happens. It was supposed to come put this past spring.

Yes, it was a warmup. They did that tour to get out of the studio and gel as a band, Also to play the old songs one last time.

They shouldnt have done cities like Idaho and Tacoma, they should have done a qucik major city tour. WOuld have been more productive.

I think this recent delay has come from a combo of things. The lawsuit thing, GH, Bucket, and letting the members wrap up their solo stuff. The time is coming....

I certainly hope the vocals on CD are a vast improvment from the MTV awards 2 yrs ago. I have to say I was mortified when this was initially aired 2 years ago and I viewed again recently and was appalled once more. However, im of and have always been of the opinion that Axl needs to quit running round the stage so much - even on the Illusions tour, he struggled to sing well and run and that's gotten worse as he's got older. I'm sure his studio vocals will be top-notch, but that MTV performance set them back IMO - probably knocked Axls confidence when he viewed the show

How do you know that they planned to release it this spring?  ??? Axl said in a couple of interviews that he wants to release it in 2001, spring of 2002, but I've never heard anything about this spring. (On the other hand: Axl's interviews are the proofs that he wanted to release CD years before...)

Do you think that a tour named Chinese Democracy World Tour was supposed to be only a warm-up and the he planned to record for years and not release anything?  ???

[quoteAxl said in a couple of interviews that he wants to release it in 2001]Then someone named Buckethead joined the band.

where/when

I have no clue why they named it CD. My guess is that after the first leg of the tour concluded they were gonna go back and finish it up and then start the 2nd leg od CD witht he actual new material.

Again, last tour basically had nothing to do with CD.

well...i kinda understand why duff said that...anyway, i completly disagree and it hurts to know that duff said that... :rant:
he is in a new fase of his life, happy and productive. i understand that he now produces more music of his own, or better, has more conscience of it....but even so, i dont believe he trully believes that, he is just excited about VR... ::)

1. Based on an Axl-interview: "The expectations of the band turns now to the new album, "Chinese Democracy", which will be released in June."

2001.01. http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=37

Buckethead had been playing for Axl for almost one year when this interview took place.

2. DJ: When is it gonna be the new album? Is it possible that we're gonna have a new record from Guns N' Roses?

Axl: Yes, I've heard. Um, hopefully we will put out a new single umm sometime this spring and then the record gonna be done in June or shortly thereafter.

2001.01. http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=39

3. R&P: We know that Chinese Democracy will be released in June, but we wanted to know what the reasons are for taking so long before releasing the album?

Axl: We hadn't written songs or recorded for many years. There were band changes and there were many changes in the record company. blah, blah, blah. Axl didn't deny what the riporter said.

2001.01. http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=38

4. On launching the tour in China:

?It?s a dream realized. A dream come true. The right time, the right place and the whole thing came about by chance. I guess it?s meant to be. This was something we could not turn down. The most exciting thing is getting the band out there to begin doing some shows and these are some big shows. It?s a way for us to play for a lot of people and have a lot of fun. It?s also a warm up so we can have an understanding of how to start our Fall tour. And that?s a warm up for the Spring tour. This thing is starting now and much like Use Your Illusions that went for two and a half years, this thing is going to go off and on for the next two or three years and we?ll see how it goes. We?re really looking forward to seeing all the different people in the different countries and this is a great opportunity.?
(...)Guns N? Roses will go back into the studio immediately following the aforementioned dates to put the final touches on the forthcoming ?Chinese Democracy? album. (...) It feels right, the timing, and a lot of things. We?ve sorted it down to what songs are on the record. What the sequence of the songs is. The album cover art is ready.

2002. 08. http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=82

5. But it will come out and we will, we'll go back, we'll do some more recording and then we'll start the American leg of the tour... And see how it goes from there.

2002 VMA http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=47

6. Ditch: You've really, you've... It sounds like really nurtured relationships with these guys, and the new disc "Chinese Democracy". Umm, do you have any idea when the fruits of those labours will come to harvest?

Axl: Uhh, sometime during the next year.

2002.11. http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=50

+1. in Rio, I think. Axl said sg like 'See you next summer with a bunch of new songs' (not to mention Axl's 1996 press release in which he said the new album would be out in 1997)

It's obvious that Axl always wants to release the album, but when it'd be the time he puts off the date. Simple as that. On the other hand maybe we'd have CD if the 'World Tour' didn't end early for some reasons. And the bandmembers are saying bullshit when they always tell a supposed release date (month), or, which is more likely, they get an info from Axl and then the Big Bossman changes his mind again. Hell, I've never thought that 3 and a half year after Rio, after Axl told the fans another time that 'the last tour was the end of somehing, now this is the beginning of something new", I didn't know he might means it's the beginning of another 10 years silence...

I feel the bottom line is if axl already had two albums worth of material which he has mentioned in interviews before 2002 he should have just released one shortly after he realised bucket was no longer with the group.. He could have toured on that album with one in the wings for another year and finished the third (which seems to be the one we always hear about) as they went along and this...

It's hard to believe one album which was recorded last is holding everything up, seems a bit odd.... It's my opinion, even if he originally wanted to do three albums over three years or something he should have changed plans once he knew buckethead was not going to be contributing to the curent installment anymore..

Cut your losses and release the material you've had for all these years, there's always time to do more.. Tons of bands give frequent albums( 2 yrs), plus they're doing this with world tours.. New gnr has had nothing but free time to create.

I showed Axl some of the material I'd been writing.? He looked at it and said "I'm not playing this shit."? The stuff he was into, I just couldn't understand.? So I went with the rest of the guys and did the Snakepit album.? Then Axl comes to me and asks for the material back.? I said "dude, that material's gone, and if I remember correctly, I was turned down flat."

--Slash

That is according to slash.
Axl said on those same songs, Axl asked slash to work on them some more and to fix them up to make them better, and slash refused so axl said he cant use them. 

 :hihi:

Thats what you asked for, correct?

Okay Dave, it's riddle time.? Read your original statement, then read my answer, and riddle me this Batman...

Riddle number one.? What did Davie ask for the first time?

(I don't know.? What?)

Davie said he never heard Slash or Duff say Axl wouldn't work on their songs, and that he wanted to see a quote from Slash or Duff stating otherwise.


Riddle number two.? What did Dizzy tell dear ol' Davie?

(I don't know.? What?)

That Slash did indeed say Axl wouldn't work on his songs, and Dizzy did indeed provide a quote that Dave asked for.


Riddle number three.? How did Davie respond to that now that he had the exact answer that he asked for?

(I don't know.? How?)

Once Davie had the answer, he just changed the damn question.

: ok:

Well since slash is a known liar, he just bended the truth just a bit.
And its funny he said axl asked about the songs later, which means what? He wanted to use them and was willing to work on his songs, he just wanted slash to fix them up more but slash refused so axl said he can't unless slash fixed them up.? so again slash is full of shit. He cant even tell the whole truth

Axl has lied to us more times than we should ever care to get into. Neither of them would know the truth if it hit them square in the face. To sit here and try and argue based on what either of them have said is ridiculous as both of them have/will continue to lie through their teeth to advance whatever personal agenda they may have.

What has axl lied about? And dont say about when CD will be out because that is not lying.  Slash has always changed his story the old band and what happened while axls story has always been pretty much the same.

He has lied about the entire CD project, from promised tour dates to telling fans we should see something within X amount of time, that is all par for the course. He works his stories around things that are convient for him. Slash does the same thing. Bending the truth is a character flaw, and they are both miserably guilty. Where you seperate the 2 and say its OK when Axl has bent the truth but not Slash, I look at the fact that both are equally capable of lying and have both done so in the past.

A lot of you guys here, just base your opinion on how Axl feels about certain issues at any given time..  When BH was in the band: "oh he is so cool, much better than Slash..bla bla", then when BH leaves, and Axl gets angry: "oh, BH is such an asshole, I never liked him anyway..bla bla" , I really hope Slash and Axl works things out and do something together.. It's a possebilety that many of you really don't want to think about..  But if they do, I'm really curious about your reactions.. If Axl goes out in the media and says something like: "Slash and I are friends again.. We are working on a new album, and we are really happy to be in a band together again" 90% of you guys would be like: "oooh I loooove Slash, he is soooo right for GnR bla bla bal.." Face it: None of us would problably ever had heard about neither Axl or Slash, if it wasen't for the two of them together with Duff,Izzy and Steven..  Show some respect for God's sake ! Don't make so harsh comments about past or present bandmambers.. Just because you are frustrated because you have been waiting for ages for a new album, dosen't make it better if you leave it out on the other members, does it?

I don't see why we have to call either Axl or Slash liars, at least not about the incident you guys were talking about, with the songs.  Its human nature to tell a story in a way that makes you look as good as possible.  They both have said essentially the same thing, Slash wanted to do certain songs he had written.  Axl didn't like them.  Those songs eventually became the Slash's snakepit album. 

As far as who was the biggest asshole in the situation, I suspect the truth lies somewhere in the middle. 

How many times do i have to say, guessing a release date is not lying. You cant lie about the future just the past.  I dont know what is so hard to understand about this, and then people like you wonder why axl wont give his best guess when Cd might be out because people like you turn it around and claims he lies. That is not a lie. Its like me saying, oh I plan on going to NY this weekend, then something happens so I dont go then you calling me a liar because I didnt go. How is that lying. A lie would be me saying I went to NY last weekend when in fact I did not, see the difference?

The only lies people can claim axl has made are about this album and when its coming out, but like i said you cant lie about the future or what you plan on doing only what already happened, and that is what slash is always lying about, things that happened in the past,, so try again and give me a real reason how axl has lied.

Axl was pissed that BH quit the band when things were finally falling into place. They had RIR4 just ahead and probably the album dropping soon after that. You can have a great working relationship but if someone just up and quits you are going to be upset with them. 

As for slash and axl working together again, that will never happen so dont hold  your breath.

How do you know that Axl isn't lying about the past and Slash is? I know you're think this because "Slash is always changing his story", but I want to see some cold hard evidence. I mean proper quotes, not taken out of context either.

Remember Axl's big rant against the press in Get in the Ring, about how the press were constantly twisting and misinterpreting everything that everyone in the band said about anything? Well nothing has changed since then, just because Slash is no longer in GNR it doesn't mean that the press aren't still up to their usual tricks.

I mean, it really doesn't matter a fuck, because at the end of the day we're all here to celebrate the great music that the two of them contributed towards, but quit painting one side as a competely innocent victim here. Axl isn't totally to blame for anything that went wrong in the past, and Slash isn't totally to blame either. These guys lived in each others' pockets for nearly 3 years during the Illusions tour; just like living with the same person for 3 years, there are bound to be gripes on either side about stuff. When this is coupled with the BIG pressure the band was under to maintain the aura they had achieved with UYI, it's bound to blow any working relationship apart. Everyone paints these guys as some sort of demi-god, superhuman rockstars, but they are only human like the rest of us.

I'm not "sticking up" for any particular "side" here, because it isn't necessary. Slash and Axl had a great working relationship that just blew apart under the pressure, and that's all there is to it. Like has been said before in this thread, there are two sides to every story, and then there is the truth.

Its easy, slashs stories about the old band are ever changing, his views on what happened change pretty  everytime he talks but  axls stories about the old band have always remain pretty much consistant. 

Just look at the horn section and back up singers. Slash on an old interview (UYI tour) admited it was his idea yet on BTM he basically said it was Axls idea.  There are a bunch of others im not going to get into but you get the idea.

Dave,

Slash has not changed his story once.? Not once.? He's given various reasons for leaving the band, but they're remained the same.? Just because he has more than one reason for leaving the band does not mean he's "changed his story".? Every time Slash has been asked why he left the band, he says that he didn't want to wait around, and/or that there were musical differences.? That's pretty much it.? Just because he doesn't explain the circumstances in complete detail every single time doesn't mean he's lying, and it doesn't mean he's changed his story.

And Dave, given the fact that you contradict yourself quite frequently around here, I guess that makes you a liar too.? Remember the "Sebastian Bach would make the album suck" and then "oh no, I never said that" debate?

And Axl has spoken so much bullshit that he can't be trusted in the slightest.? Consider these comments made by the ever-so-truthful Mr. Rose....

Everybody in the [old] band hated everybody else, except for me. -- Axl

Oh yeah, that a REALLY truthful statement, isn't it?? Slash, Duff, Izzy, Steven, Matt Sorum....yeah they all hated each other didn't they?? That's why ALL OF THEM are either in bands together, jam together, or remain in contact with one another to this day.? Except for good ol' Axl, the only one who allegedly didn't hate everybody else.

GOOD ONE AXL!? ?::)

Here's another great comedic line from Axl (paraphrased)...

Certain former members are using the Guns N Roses name without releasing quality material to cash in on their current careers.? -- Axl, Vegas, December 29, 2001

Oh yes, Axl, all the former GNR members are the ones using the GNR name for their solo/current projects aren't they?? They're the ones playing entire sets of old GNR songs without releasing any new material, aren't they?? ?::)

ANOTHER GOOD ONE, AXL!? ?::)

The only way the latter statement could be even slightly truthful is if it were applied to Steven Adler for his Adler's Appetite tour of largely GNR covers.? However, Adler's Appetite did not exist at that time, making Axl's statement a complete load of hypocritical bullshit.  Just because Axl's story is "consistent" DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE.

And those are just a couple examples of Axl's ridiculously absurd lies.? Look around and you'll find more.? And I read your comments above.? It's funny how whenever Axl says something that's proven untrue, such as release dates and promised touring, you always write it off as "well, plans changed".? Ever notice that with Axl, plans always have a funny way of changing?

Dizzy you crack me up sometimes, a few months ago we had a whole post full of all the times slash has changed his story yet you are not claiming he has never changed it once? That is truely sad.? I gave you one example about the horn section and back up singers but I guess in your eyes that is not a lie right?

And Dizzy my statement about Bach is true, I said that if he was on the album it would not have done well because people would have viewed the band as a 80s retread band, I have always said that and I was one of the first people to suggest they should look at Scott when a lot of people on this board were hard for Bach.

Dont put words in my mouth or try to because you are not smart enough to do so.

As for Axl saying "Certain former members are using the Guns N Roses name without releasing quality material to cash in on their current careers.? -- Axl, Vegas, December 29, 2001"

That is 100% true, they quit guns n roses yet still milk the name for everything its worth.

As for your statment
"Oh yes, Axl, all the former GNR members are the ones using the GNR name for their solo/current projects aren't they?? They're the ones playing entire sets of old GNR songs without releasing any new material, aren't they?? ?

ANOTHER GOOD ONE, AXL!? ?"

What name is axl using? The name guns n roses, is that not correct? So of coarse he is going to play guns n roses songs.? Gee I guess axl is not allowed in your eyes to play guns n roses songs when he is in the band called guns n roses.

GOOD ONE DIZZY? ::)

I have failed to see how anything? what axl said in these statements are lies.
Do you even know what a lie is?

As for axl saying the only person everyone liked in the band was him being a lie, well first when did he make that statement? And were you there to prove or disprove that statement?

They can all say one thing to his face then talk shit behind his back, no?

I dont think so.

So try again Dizzy.

So in his buckethead fax(and committing to Rio and not showing up is a lie, regardless of circumstance...he knew Bucket was out of the band and should have done something about it. There has to be some accountability at the head of an organization) when he says we'd hear something in a couple of months thats not a lie....just a change in plans? Or how about we play on the semantics of it and you defend that there is no definition to how many a couple is. Or how about telling the fans at the end of a concert see you all next summer....and nothing ever happens? That is just a change in plans too isn't it? Or saying you are going to play a concert in Vancouver to start your tour....and not showing up? That was just a change in plans too wasn't it? Same thing as in Philly...when you tell the fans you'll be there and don't come....thats not a lie....its a change in plans isn't it. Or in your fax when you tell everyone Slash is gone and that we will see a new album the next year? The fact it doesn't happen doesn't constitute a mistruth because its in the future right?

Ok then.....if he's not a liar then he is definitely a "Flip-Flopper." Given the region of the country you're from Dave that is something you should understand better than any of us. Although at times it feels like we're arguing with George Bush because no matter how many other people on the board tell you something and back it up with defined instances you still can't see the light. Kind of like no matter how many times the weapons inspectors tell W there were no weapons in Iraq he keeps on telling us it doesn't matter because he doesn't deal in fact. It seems kind of like how you interact with your Axl worship, no matter how many other people show you times Axl has lied to us you spin it, find a way to try and justify it and write it off as if it didn't really happen.

Oh so if a show gets cancelled then its a lie? I dont think so.

And again, let me say this again since some of? you dont know what a lie is. Maybe this is just not getting through to you, its really a simple concept.

Like I said before you cant lie about the future only about the past, about something that has already happened.?
Why cant? you understand that?? ?Saying you plan to do something and then it not happening is not a lie.

VRs album got delayed so was it a lie when it got pushed back because it did not come out on the orginal date it was intened?

Slash is trying to change history by changing the facts of what really happened that is a lie.

If you can show me some statements that contradict what axl has said in the past then you can say he is lying but no one has done that yet, you can just give me statements were axl said he plans to put out CD or play a show then he cant make it or it gets cancelled.. That is not a lie.

VR had to cancel a show, so are they all liars because they didnt play that show?

Great, a cancellation is now considered lying.  ::)

Please remember that next time somebody tells you "sorry, I can't make it", call them a liar.

You just called most artists liars with your statement.  : ok:



/jarmo

That was my point though....that he lies every bit as much as the next guy. Certain people like to only look at certain situations as lying as long as its beneficial to the angle they're going for.

Like I said, all you have to do is quote axl where he has contradicted himself from something that happened in the past.
Something where in one interview he gives one version of the story and then in another he gives a different version of what happened. Since none of you can seem to do that, how  can you claim axl has lied about anything esp that has to do with the old band?

Umm no,? You said, AND I QUOTE.....

"Bach would've made the album SUCK"? You didn't merely say "it wouldn't have done well", you said Bach would've made the album SUCK.

That was your fucking statement.? Then you turned around and said you didn't say that.? So I guess that makes you a lying son of a bitch, because you contradicted yourself.


Coming from someone who types as shitty as you do, I'll take that as a compliment.? You are the LAST person who should ever insult someone else's intelligence.? I'd be surprised if your IQ was higher than your shoe size.

Not that it matters, because I didn't put words in your mouth.? I quoted you exactly on the Seb Bach issue.? Look through your own damn posts and you'll find your glaring contradiction.? You're so damn wishy-washy you can't even remember what you say from one post to the next.? This thread is a fine example.? You said you had NEVER heard Slash say Axl wouldn't work on their songs, and you demanded a quote stating otherwise.? I posted one, so you just made a feeble attempt to cover your ass by changing the fucking question.? In the process, you start yapping with your stupid "Slash is a liar" bullshit to distract from the fact that you can't keep your own head straight about the questions that you ask.


That proves your level of intelligence.? All the former members are doing there own things, they have been for years.? Snakepit, Loaded, Neorotic Outsiders, Velvet Revolver.? None of them have anything to do with Guns N Roses, aside from one or two cover songs here and there.? As I said, you might say Steven milked GNR with Adler's Appetite, but Axl's bullshit lie came before Steven started that.  And even if Axl accused Steven of milking GNR, he would a hypocrite, because Steven did exactly what Axl did.  Axl and Steven are both one original member of Guns N Roses playing GNR songs on their tour.


No shit, genius.? That's exactly the fucking point.? Axl is 1/5 of Guns N Roses.? Yet he uses a band that four other guys helped make, he's playing songs that four other guys helped write, and then he hypocritically points the finger at those other four guys who are doing all sorts of other things and says that THEY are milking the Guns N Roses name.? So in that instance, Axl is a goddamn hypocrite and a liar, plain and simple.

Here, let me break it down so even you can understand...

Slash and Duff are doing Velvet Revolver.? They released their own album, and they're touring to support it.? It has nothing to do with Guns N Roses.? Granted, fans will be attracted to them because they're former GNR members, but that isn't their doing, brainiac.  I mean hell, they're always going to carry the stigma of being former GNR members, so fans will always come to see them for that reason, no matter what they're doing.  But they are essentially doing their own thing, yet Axl will say they're milking the GNR name.? That makes Axl a liar.? And given the fact that NOBODY milks the GNR name like Axl does (using the GNR name, playing entire sets of old songs, and not releasing any new material), he's a hypocrite to boot.

Jesus, why the hell am I even wasting my time explaining this?? Everything I said is as blatant as the truth can be, and you still don't listen.? You never will.


You always fail to see whenever Axl is to blame.? Always.? You can't see it because you're insanely blinded by your worship of Axl Rose.? Axl is your superhero, and he can't do any wrong.? Not ever.? He could murder your mother and you'd find a way to excuse him.


It's time you consulted a dictionary, son.? Because apparently, you're the one who doesn't have the slighest clue what a lie is.? As I said before, Sherlock....

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO CONTRADICT YOURSELF IN ORDER TO LIE.

Get that through your damn skull.? Just because Axl's story is consistent doesn't mean jack shit in the way of truth.? He could be lying his ass off, but you say he's telling the truth simply because he's consistent.

Jesus Christ, I could consistently tell you the world is flat.? Does that mean I'm telling you the truth?

Or I could tell you now that the world is round.? Next time, I could tell you the world is a circle.? The time after that, I could tell you the world is spherical.? But that would mean I am changing my story and therefore I am lying, right?? Because the earth can't be all of the above?? It can't be round, circular, and spherical, can it?? I mean, my statements must be consistent in order to be true!? Right?? ? ::)


Yeah, here's a great example of a bullshit lie....




Why bother?? Talking to someone like you is like talking to a fence post.? Hell, it's even worse.? Because at least when the wind blows hard enough, a fence post actually moves.

I just think both Axl and Slash have their own interpretations of what happened in the past.  Maybe Slash has changed his story on some things, but who hasn't when talking about things that happened years ago?  I think he's stayed pretty consistent on the big issue of why the original band split up.  Trivial things about who put the horn section together really doesn't matter to me.  Who knows; maybe it was Axl's idea for the horn section but Slash was actually the one to organize the players.   So, maybe he has changes his story, but I don't know if I would brand him as a liar just because of him changing a few trivial details from years ago. 

One thing that always did bother me was Axl saying the old guys were doing things to capatilze on the Guns N' Roses name.  That's a gutsy thing to say when you are trying to sell a new band as Guns N' Roses even though most of the guys in the band have absolutely no connection to any of the accomplishments that made the band so well known.   I know, I know; Axl owns the name and I accept that.  Still, it just seems a little ironic for Axl to say that in my opinion...

"Everything on that record is exactly the f*cking way we wanted it. I can find a couple of points where a note wasn't quite in time, and a couple of things like that, but everything came out the way we wanted it." - Axl Rose, on the Illusions (Metallix, 1992)

"I gave into a lot of pressure on Illusions both internally in Guns and externally in the press, those albums suffered as a consequence, it's not something I'm too excited to have to live with again." - Axl Rose (Press Release, 2002)

"So, I opted for what I thought would or should've made the band and especially Slash very happy. Basically I was interested in making a Slash record with some contributions from everybody else." - Axl Rose (Press Release, 2002)

"I mean, what people don't know is, the [Slash's] Snakepit album, that is the Guns N' Roses album. I just wouldn't do it." - Axl Rose (MTV, 1999)

"People talk about player haters. Well, I don?t think it pays to be a ?hater - hater." - Axl Rose (Press Release, 2002)

"I think that there?s a little pussy-ass writer over at NME that owes me some rent money... for livin' inside my ass!" - Axl Rose (London show, August 26th, 2002)

Plus countless other insults along the way

"When it comes to Guns n? Roses, I may not always get everything right but I do have a good idea about getting things from point A to point B" - Axl Rose (Press Release, 2002) - Not necessarily a lie, but a ridiculous statement when you think about it.  :hihi:

Just to clarify, I didnt post these to prove Axl is a liar...only to prove how silly and pointless Daves views are.

Booker as? to your first statement, Axl even said "I can find a couple of points where a note wasn't quite in time, and a couple of things like that, but everything came out the way we wanted it"

then he said ""I gave into a lot of pressure on Illusions both internally in Guns and externally in the press, those albums suffered as a consequence, it's not something I'm too excited to have to live with again."

Those two sound pretty similar dont they?

Again like I said earlier about the snake pit album, axl told slash to go back and fix up the songs he brought but slash refused so axl didnt want to use those songs, what did? you not understand about that?

And booker if my views were so pointless? you sure did waste a lot of time finding a few quotes eh??
And the quotes  you found are hardly lies, the only one  you can make a case for is the one about making an album for slash, and thats it.

As for you dizzy you really like to talk in circles dont you?
As for my Bach statement link it so I can read what it is? you are claiming I said.

As for Axl milking the gnr name, I am curious just how is he doing this? He NEVER quit the band guns n roses like slash and duff did, so I dont see why people like? you get so pissed that he is still using the name. Axl unlike slash and duff care about the band guns n roses and wants to keep it a live.?

Guns n roses is his band, he was in the band before slash and he is still in the band after slash left.

It would be like you starting a company with a few friends, then? you leaving the company and getting pissed at? your friend for still using and making things under that company name.

Ps Dizzy you still have no clue what a lie is. You think someone canceling a show is makes that person a liar.
So if a person that contradicts them self a lot about things that happened in the past is not a liar then what is it?

And yes you don't have to contradict yourself to be telling a lie but the point is, axls story has always remain consistent while slash's stories have changed a few times over the years, so what does that make slash? A liar.

Its one think to change your opinion on something that is subject IE music but its another to talk about factual events and keep changing what you say really happened.

Here is an example since I know you love to pull things out of context.

When I was younger I liked the band poison. Now that I am older I don't like them anymore.
Does that make me a liar? No it doesn't.

Now, In 1998 I claim I didn't fight in desert storm, now I claim I? fought in desert storm.
Does that make me a liar. Yes it does.

About axls version of what happened with the  break up of the band, no one knows if its 100% the truth or 100% a lie but its his version of what happened, and like i said its always remained pretty much consistent, where as slashs version of what happened keeps changing, thus that makes him lying about what really happened.

So, what is so hard to understand about that?

No?

Does a minor aside such as that take precedent over "Everything on that record is exactly the f*cking way we wanted it."??

The tone of the second, contradictory quite seems a little more serious than a couple of notes out of time, which Axl clearly illustrates as a virtual non-issue in the first quote.? Nice try though.? : ok:


The Snakepit album was a Slash record.? Axl refused to do it.? Later, Axl says he was interested in making a Slash record... ???? Justify how you will, its a contradiction - precisely what you skewer Slash for on a regular basis.?

Nows the part where you exclaim, "But he said with contributions from everyone else!"? Check the Snakepit credits for contributions from Matt Sorum, Gilby Clarke, Duff McKagan, Teddy Andreadis, and Mike Clink.


Nope.? 7 minutes, tops.? But I did it to illustrate that your views pointless...that was my point and I successfully made it.?


Didnt I do that before??

You started out claiming Slash would fuck up and make the wrong decision, which was Bach over Weiland.

Then he picked Weiland, and you claimed he did it to sell records, and that Bach was a better singer/songwriter, indicating he mustve been the right choice, right?? Not according to you.



So, hes a better singer/songwriter, yet he wouldve really made the album suck and youre glad he wasnt picked.? ?:confused: :hihi:

Truth hurts, doesnt it Mr. Contradiction?


Examples?

Slash has given more than one reasons for the breakup, all of which can be perfectly valid, and likely are since theyre supported by every other bandmate that isnt Axl.  Because he gives more than one doesnt mean hes lying.  But okay, go ahead and prove your case.

lmao!

this discussion is crazy... gnr fans really, TRULY need something new to talk about.

sweet memories though, lol

booker Floyd and dizzy.. I admire your patience..  You have taken apart every little statement that Dave has said, and basically proved him wrong on most of them..  I only wish I had the time to get so deep in to this discussion, because you guys have just written what I was thinking, but didn't have time to write...  RESPECT !! 
If you have almost all of Axl's former friends and partners saying that Axl is a special guy, talented as hell, but a pain in the ass to be around, on one side(like Slash,Duff,Steven,Izzy,Gilby,Matt,Teddy,Traci Guns,Chris Weber,managers,promoters,girlfriends,wives,fellow artists,journalists and many,many more), and Axl + whoever gets his paycheck from him at that particular time on the other side, telling you that Axl is the good guy,and all the others are bad.. don't you kind of start to see a pattern here..? The day one of the current members leaves (and you know it,and I know it: some of them will either quit, or be fired sometime along the way) they will probably badmouth Axl as well. It's happend so many times, it seems to be the standard, not the exception. Everyone here agree that Axl is a incedible artist,singer, writer, frontman, "superhero" and all that, but it doesn't mean he is a easy person to work with (or live with) ,and instead of everyone else having to addapt to his behavior, and be very carefull how they express themselves in front of him, or in the media, maybe he needs to work on his issues and try to be more easy for others to be around.. just like most of us has to do in our lives?  He is just a human like everybody else, and I'm sure his shit smells bad, just like mine, or yours, so don't treat the guy like he's a God, or King, because he ain't....  No offense to Axl if he reads this, but I think Axl has been surrounded by "yes-men" to much already.. Wake up !

This "newgnr" thing is composed by yes-men, so it should be called "Axl & The Lackeys".

Great work Booker.  Glad you see things my way.

Nice to see certain fans turn up in the GN'R section as soon as there's something to whine about regarding Axl.  :P


This is fucking stupid, you don't agree on who's right and who's wrong. There's two sides to the story and you choose to believe different stories. Big deal.

This reminds me of something Axl said back in 1991 in St Louis.

Something like: I'm just trying to figure out. What is it? I must have some huge reputation of
lying my ass off all the time?

I guess that's just it. It's like, basically if you're talking to Axl, argue with
him and don't believe him because he is just known for lying in his music and in his
personal life. He just lies all the time I guess. Is that what he does?


Another thing. How can you prove Axl is lying regarding the Snakepit songs?

Maybe it went down like this:

Slash: Hey Axl, here's a bunch of songs we can do for the next album.  8)
Axl: No, I don't want to do them. They're not done yet, we need to work on them some more.
Slash: Ok, I'll record them then.  >:(

(later)

Axl: Where's the songs?  ???
Slash: You said you didn't want to record them so I did with my own band.  :smoking:


1995:
Slash: Axl didn't want to record the songs, so I took them and did it myself.

2002:
Axl: Slash didn't want to work on his material.


Ok, now what if that happened. Is Axl a liar?


/jarmo

What did you expect, my opinions on breaking news?? ;)

But youre wrong...my post wasnt about Axl, its about the inane mindset of some posters.? I used Axl as an example since thats seemingly the only to get through to some people and point out their blatant hypocrisy.



Thats exactly it, Jarmo.? Youve proved my point, which I hope Dave and others like him understand - seemingly contradictory statements do not make one a liar.? For Axl to say he wanted to make a "Slash record" and then turn down a Slash record is contradictory at face value.? But common sense leads us to believe that its usually not that simple, and if Axl is afforded that benefit of the doubt, shouldnt others be afforded the same?

listen motherfuckers to a song that should be heard, dragged down in the gutter, more than you deserve, kneeling fucking banshee,,,,you know tahts what you are..pussy for a maggot....

On the subject of lying......President Bush says and has said Iraq had the capability to produce WMD's and has been nothing but consistent about it since he started talking about it. It has been proved otherwise that those weapons never existed and he didn't have the capabilities. Does it mean he's still telling the truth just because he's been consistent? To me it would seem like he's lying, but I guess in the mind of some posters consistency equals truth even in the presence of fact.

The statement? you made is false if im not mistaken.? Iraq had the facitlities but no WMD were found in them.
I find this to be very humorous all theses slash lovers are trying to disprove that slash is a liar because he is always changing his story about how the old band broke up.? : ok:

Slash could stay consistent with his story and that would be his version of what happenend and that would be fine but he keeps changing yet.

Like i said before you cant really lie about an opinion just about facts that happened in the past, so what is so hard to understand about that.

You slash fans can? try and twist this how ever you want but its a fact slash? has never been truthful of what really happened since he keeps changing his story.

Yes everytime? you contradict yourself its not a lie but at the same? time it can also be a lie but some of you dont understand that or are just being ignorant.

Here are two defs of what lying is.

"A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood."
"Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression."


So slash is trying to decieve people by contradicting himself, that is why its a lie.
You can change your mind about something and its still not a lie but when you are talking about something that happened then change what really happened thatis not being truthful



But slash fans keep LYING to yourself, its ok, do what ever? you have to do to make? yourself sleep at night.
By the same few who always nitpick are doing it here just prove you know that what I am saying is true, that is why you always try and twist it into something its not. Good job guys  : ok:

What does a Dizzy Reed/Pittman song got to do with this thread..





great debate by the way.

idk i just thought it was better than this thread  :-\

hah..okey, now I got you  :)

I find it funnier that you completely ignored my post...

Dave: "Show me where I said that about Bach!"


Dave: ...

"Its funny that Slash is a liar!"

 : ok:


So go ahead and prove your point...


Haha, its a fact, huh?  Well, feel free to prove your facts.


 :confused:

I think you should pay more attention to your own contradictions and hypocrisy.

If this was a sport game, the score would now be 24-0 to booker floyd !   :peace:

yeah only looking thru slash colored glasses.

And booker link my post where i said that. Thx

...Or 20/20 vision.  :-\


Youre very welcome. (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=12891.40)

And where is the first link booker where I originally said it, I just see where you quoted me yet that quote is not in that thread.? So where is the other one. And booker, that is still not a lie its called an opinion.
You still dont know what a lie is do? you?

I do have one question for booker and dizzy, didn?t your mommy teach you what a lie was when you were two or three..
I have given you guys a few examples and definitions yet you still cant grasp the concept of what a lie is?
Wow, that is pretty sad.

As for a fact about slash lying, I have already? given one but I will do it again since you are playing dumb.
Slash said back in the UYIs days it was his idea to bring the back up singers and the horn section on tour, yet on BTM he bascailly bashed axl saying it was his idea.? That is a lie.? Is that not good enough for you?

I have spelled out what a lie is and what is not a lie but you can't get it? through your head, I am sorry you cannot understand this simple concept.

And booker everyone knows how you love to twist everything around until its taken totally out of context and the only person you fool is yourself, but what ever makes  you happy

 : ok:

Quote from: dave-gnfnr2k on May 13, 2003, 08:24:35 PM

The link is in there...Apparently the thread is missing, but youre not implying that its fabricated, right?  Considering that the last topic on this board is from October 2003, it was probably lost in the server switch.


Is that it?

By the way, it would be great if you could give a source on that original quote.

No booker I am implying its taken out? of context since? you always do that.
You pull one quote from a whole paragraph and it changes the meaning.

As for the slash quote why do you always deny this, we have shown you the quote a lot of times.
Ill try and find it but you know slash said it was his idea.

If you're talking about Slash saying it was his idea for the orchestration on the UYI tour, I actually read that as well in a magazine during that period. Unfortunately I don't remember what magazine it was. And he said it was his and Axl's common idea. I think he said something like: "I wanted to bring backup vocals and orchestration on songs like Pretty Tied Up and Move To The City, and Axl wanted to do something similar with November Rain and Live And Let Die, so we figured, let's go for it!", or something of that effect.

 ???

Are you really going to try convincing anybody that quote was taken out of context?  ::)

what did the rest of my paragraph say?
Like I have always said, the album would bach would have been looked upon as a 80s retred album and wouldnt do very well, that is why they didnt go with him. They went with Scott because they knew it would sell more albums and have a better chance at sucess.

BTW booker its really said it seems like you have a whole file of what I say saved on your computer  :rofl:

You always say that... but lets face it... til you can bring up a shit load of quotes like Booker has done about Axl, what you say is shit.

Slash always said the same thing about the gnr breakup.  Always.

We had a whole thread full of slash changing his story a few months ago and all the examples, I am not like booker and I am going to go searching for them again, what should i have to bring them up everytime booker makes the claim he doesnt change his story when everyone knows he does?
We did it once, so been there done that.
Just look booker always pleads ignorance to that it was slashs idea about the horn section and back up singers then him blaming axl for it on BTM and in other interviews. We always find the link and then a month later he denies it again.

And this lying tangent is a far cry from duff claiming vr is more talented than gnr.

Does it matter?  Your quote is pretty clear to me.


...

You also said Scott was the better choce, the guy you personally preferred.  Yet Bach is the better singer/songwriter?  But he would have made the album suck... ???

As for their motives for choosing Scott, what do you have to base this on, other than your own bias?




Actually, I have an understanding of the sites search function.  You might be surprised at how simple it is.


Where did I deny it?  I asked to see the quote.

Thanks Will for paraphrasing.

Translation: "I got nothing."

Just look booker always pleads ignorance to that it was slashs idea about the horn section and back up singers then him blaming axl for it on BTM and in other interviews. We always find the link and then a month later he denies it again.
Haha, now youre blatantly lying.  Please prove this. 

I can already predict that you will give a cop-out to this, because you made this up.  Simple as that.  Just when you think daves hole cant get any deeper... :hihi:


Yeah..you had nothing to do with that.  Its not like you call Slash a liar in nearly every single thread in which hes mentioned.  ::)

"You also said Scott was the better choce, the guy you personally preferred.? Yet Bach is the better singer/songwriter?? But he would have made the album suck...
As for their motives for choosing Scott, what do you have to base this on, other than your own bias?"

OH so some one cant be a better singer or song writer yet be the wrong choice for a band to make it bigger?
Like I said the album would be viewed as 80s hair metal and it would have sounded like it too.
Understand? I am sure? you dont.

About the search function, booker, I have better things to do than search through threads to finds posts from 6 months ago, I have better things to do with my time unlike? you. Sorry.

Where did I deny it?? I asked to see the quote.

Yeah you asked to see the quote because you don't believe it AGAIN.
If you know its true, like I know you do, why even ask for the quote?
its like axl saying he used to be in hollywood rose, but saying oh I want a quote proving he said that.

You have proven time and time again you dont know what a lie is, so there is no need even discuss this anymore, when you learn what a lie is, maybe we can discuss this further.

Ok you guys, please take the rest of this "conversation" to PMs, otherwise we're gonna have to lock the thread.

Hell, Dave calls Slash a liar even in threads where he isn't mentioned.? Anytime someone criticizes Axl for any reason, Dave attempts to cushion it by dragging Slash into the fray, into matters which have nothing to do with him.


And Dave, quit your bitching about how this thread went askew, because you were the primary instigator of it.? But I guess you're too damn lazy to flip back a couple pages and see for yourself what you started.? I answered a question you asked, and then you started yapping about Slash being a liar.? That's how it started.

And as for your comments about Seb Bach, I read that quote of yours too.? You said "Bach would've made the album suck."? Hell, I mentioned it on this thread even before Booker did, so it isn't like he jogged my memory.? After you said that, you changed your story and say "oh no, Bach is a better singer/songwriter, and he would've made the album sound too retro 80s", and then deny you ever said the former.? Contradiction.? So as I said, I guess that makes you a liar.

And may I also remind you that I pointed out to you that Seb Bach is hardly a songwriter at all, because Skid Row bassist Rachel Bolan wrote the majority of Skid Row's lyrics.? Bach only cowrote one song on the entire first album, he didn't even write vocal melodies on the other ten songs.? He wrote a bit more on the later albums, but not much.? Check out that link Booker provided above for confirmation of that, since you can't seem to remember anything you've ever said.


Obviously spelling properly isn't one of them.? ?:P? Perhaps the reason you refuse to search threads is because you know damn well you'll find all your contradictions, misstatements, and lunacy within your posts.

Basically Dave, your mentality is this: "I have the time to argue these issues to death even when they aren't topical or relevant, but I don't have the time to back up my arguments."

Dizzy I already said i was mistaken about Bach writing some of the skid row songs, but alas we all cant spell perfect or be perfect like? you, sorry. I bet you wish everyone in the world was like you eh?

Like I said link my whole statement about Bach instead of taking one sentence out of context, but you nor booker cant do that, you can just do what you guys always do and take things out of context.

And again dizzy its time to go back to 2nd grade and learn what a liar is since you like booker dont even know what one is,even with my examples a 2nd grader could understand the concept.

Its not a hard concept to understand but its really pitiful you and booker can't seem to get it.
I feel sorry for your ignorance.

So let me spell it out for? you one last time ok?

You can't lie on your opinions on music, since tastes can change. Understand?
But? you can lie when something that already happened in the past, then in the present you claim something else happened to decieve the person you are telling this. Understand?
Its not a lie when? you plan on doing something and then can't do it, or if you cancel a show, that is not a lie, understand?
But it would be a lie if you went to the gnr show at msg in 2002 and now in 2004 say I never was at the guns n roses show in ny 2002.
Get it?
Now if liked a band lets say poison back in the 90s, but now say, oh i hate them now. That is not a lie.
But if you liked poison in the 90s and now in 2004 say oh i never was into, that would be a lie?
Do you guys need more examples, or is it sinking in now?

No, dave, I pretty much agree with him....and my screename is IndiannaRose. I think Dizzy and Booker have pretty much allegedley proved their points with full validity. (by showing examples and showing your actual quotes in points of contradiction) You sadly, have not, but I don't think my help is needed here. Dizzy and Booker have done enough.

They can point out a few contraditions all they want about Axl but they have FAILED to show how slash has not lied. That was the whole point was it not? But of coarse they once again tried to turn it into something else but that is what they do best when they are so clearly wrong.

The fact is axls story about the old band has always remained pretty consistent where as slashs story has always changed, and changed a few times might I add.  That is the point.

Axl has continued to disapoint you and you continue to take it out on Slash. 

Out of respect to will, Ill ignore to continually point out your own laughably apparent contradictions, and lies.

But Ill ask you again to prove yourself with evidence of Slashs lies.? So far youve given one very questionable example.? Since all Slash does is lie, youve got to have a few more examples.? Prove your point..

As for the horns thing, I would appreciate if somebody gave Slashs UYI quote with the BTM one, so we can see how contradictory it is.? I honestly remember neither.? I know he commented on the horns in BTM, but I dont remember what he said.? Ive never seen the other quote, although Im sure it exists.? Id still like to see what was said.

Another quote I find interesting...

"I can hear where the band was leaning away from what Guns N' Roses [had] originally been about.

People may have their favorite songs, and it may be on "Use Your Illusion," but most people do tend to lean towards "Appetite" as being the defining Guns N' Roses record, and I can hear how, in the sound, it was moving away from that there. There's just so much I was able to do in keeping that aspect together." - Axl (MTV, 1999)

So...youre telling me it was Axl that wanted to stick to the AFD sound?? ????? That statement confuses me.

Bashing Dave-fest, isn?t it A shock?  :no:
As repeated in this thread, 10 men, 10 truths and 10 men, 10 lies. Therefore your truth can be a lie for the others.

Back to the topic , Granted, Duffs wording was wrong but I would take it as showing his guts. Spirits wise, it?s much laudable than saying his new band would never attain to the musical height of the one in his glory days and he wouldn?t dare try.

I wish VR would and GNR to surpass it.

And of cause it?s obvious that NEW GNR is more talented. For instance, see Robin?s photo skill.

this could, quite possibly be, the greatest thing i have ever read. Dave, your brain must literally HURT.  :peace:

That is fine, if slash would just stick to one story which he does not.

I hope your brain does not hurt from my examples, i mean you being a blonde and all.

I'm closing this virtual sandbox now.

Thank you to Booker, Dizzy, Dave and the other kids who played.



/jarmo