Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Say you knew for certain that God didn?t exist and that there was no afterlife, would you act any differently? In what ways would you change your life or treat others?

I wouldn't act any differently. Treating people with kindness shouldn't be to score brownie points with God, it's just the right thing to do. The world would fall apart if everyone were just out for themselves.

Would it matter if the whole word falls apart? We are all going to die and all traces of our lives will be gone forever someday anway. What does anything matter? Why not be cruel? Is life either (1) scoring browinie points with God or (2) doing the right thing AKA being a sucker? Sounds bad either way.

Turn every church into a rock venue with male AND female poledancers and cage-dancers.

The only rule? Rock as hard as you possibly can, and sleaze it to the max! All night long!!? :beer: :smoking: : ok: :peace:

That's my heaven, and if heaven don't exist, then create your own, QUICK! BEFORE YOU DIE!!! : ok:

Why the fuck would you be cruel?? ????
Doing the right thing doesn't make you a sucker... silly boy? ?::)

But personally? . . . I would track down Steven Tyler and proclaim my undying love? ?:love:


 :hihi:

So you would declare your undying love for a man that you have never met. Sounds juvenile and asinine, sorry.

And why not be cruel? If there is no God, no final reward or punishment, why should people treat other people humanly? If there are no external factors binding, why not act as we want? And who?s to say what is cruel, not cruel, right or wrong? Those are all human creations, social constructions.

Don't be sorry, sweetie.? I was just kidding ...? ::)


Why would you be cruel?? Or rather, why would you try to cause someone else pain?? And I asked you first, genius.

Why not? The question is, without God, is their a moral compass? And who's to say what is right or wrong? Who sets the standard?

No, I asked you why first, smartass! 


 ;D

People who care set the standards. Some things you just know. And as for acting as you want, some people are happy being nice to others, rather than causing chaos all the time. Peace is bliss.

And I am answering your question by (1) turning the table on your question and (2) asking your question in the context of who is the ultimate judge of morality.

1. Why be kind?
2. Why be cruel?

This is getting redundant, but I will ask again; who is to say what is right or wrong? Is it not all subjective? Without God or reward or punishment, why should we act one way or another?

Why are some people "happy to be nice to others"?

By "acting nice to others" Are they just not

A. Being positively reinforced with praise?
B. Being negatively reinforced by the removal of guilt?
?

No.

It's obviously subjective.

Take God and reward away and you're left with mortal punishment. For example, if you kill someone, that person's family might kill you or someone you love. It's an endless vicious cycle.

Hell no. ?

Personally, I feel much happier when I'm kind to others. ?Being cruel would not make me happy, whether God is around or not.

Indeed.

It is all about intent anyway isn't it?

If you are acting kind for your own selfish reasons then you are lying to yourself as well as God (if you believe in her.)

God probably is a woman. 

But how will you know for sure why you're acting the way you are?

Indeed.

It is all about intent anyway isn't it?

If you are acting kind for your own selfish reasons then you are lying to yourself as well as God (if you believe in her.)




Are you saying I'm selfish?? ?????

Why is everybody mean tonight?? ?:'(

Going to sleep, before I say something else dumb ? :-[

This makes sense. Act kind for your own benefit. Don't hurt others so you wont be hurt. A survival instinct, to pass on the genes. An innate biological basis for "morality." ?

Well the moral is to treat others as you would like to be treated.

It's not just humans. Even monkeys groom each other and take care of one another physically and emotionally.

I did not mean you per se.........

For example: If somebody is acting kind to another person for their own reasons* then they act is not sincere. If there is a God he/she/it will know that. But deep down, so does the person who is acting in that manner. They are lying to themselves.

* (If a person is only kind to another because they want something from that person, IE money, a chance at something else, whatever........)

so you're saying you're a monkey ?

So are you asking if humans should act more civil just because we have a tad more intellegence than most other beings? I have no religion, but I worship Earl! Karma rules!? :peace: What you do will come back and bite you in the ass. So if you want to kill, rape and pilage, just be prepared for the come back. May not happen in this life, but it should!!? :D

I'm waiting for the aliens to come take me away....

Hey!! You watch My Name Is Earl too!! :o That program rocks! :D

You only get to live once, as you get older you should be able to develop your own ideas of how you should live your life.  Make your own morals, decide for yourself what makes a person good or bad, but always aim to be as good a person as you can be.

You don't need religion for any of this.  Religion is the easy option.  There's no reason to think that they've got it wrong, there's every possibility that there is a creator and a heaven and a hell, but i'd rather live by my own rules instead of following a book all my life.

So, in answer to the question, I wouldn't act very differently at all.  I guess I might kill one person (just one) if they really pissed me off, but most of the time I would be just the same.

I propably wouldn't change a thing.

The thing is (as some have already said in this thread), it's not about if there's a prize at the end waiting. It's not about heaven or hell for me. My main guideline in life has been to enjoy it as much as I can so that I, and the people around me would be happy, and so that my actions wouldn't hurt people. The last point is sometimes impossible to achieve, because a lot of times, no matter what your actions are, people will get hurt.

But as for the original suggestion about going on a rampage and killing people.. That would give me no pleasure what so ever. Sure I'm angry at some people from time to time (usually here.. in my real life people will not try to talk about the same topics with me 4 times in different threads.. :)).  But violence would most propably solve nothing. When I do something good for someone. It usually makes me feel good too. I don't do it out of fear of God. I do it because I hope they'll be happy too.

I won't change a thing anyway human beings are animals of costumes (costumbres is in spanish anyone know the word for the exact translation?  :nervous: , cause I think costumes is for halloween)

It's customs. But some people are animals of costumes too, in relation to pretending to be something they're not. :)

I wouldn't change, because of the life history i have, it made me as i am and i don't think my beliefs change anything if not help me hang on to something some call life.

See... that is the reason why in my first post in this thread... I didn't say how I'd change as a person, I just said what I'd do! I'm nice because I'm nice, not because some omnipotent higher power written about in a 3000 year old story book has told me to be nice (except on here... gotta be nice otherwise I'll get banned! :hihi: ). ::)

I am who I am, and "God" and "Religion" don't hold precedence over my life in any way anyway! So I'm home and dry on that one! :smoking:

Ooh... True, true   :peace:

I have acted kind to many people in my life and i have been a monster with some others ( and the word is weighed)

When i have been kind, the ones who know me questionned it, because they see me as cold and ruthless or when i'm not, passionate and volcanic.

And the ones who don't know me questionned too, with a usual " what does she want ?"

Well, fuck, i want nothing but people to be happy.

Why ?

Because i'm not.

Is it sad ?

Probably.

Is it bad ?

Not.

Fullstop.

would do nothing different, i'm nice cos i am not cos i think God might be pissed if i'm not

God sucks anyway. ::) Goddam prudes! :hihi:

God is awesome!  :)

But that doesn't make me a prude.  :beer:

I believe we all would act differently, and those who say they wouldn't are either lying or don't no themselves that well.

Example:How about all those family members and co-workers who you deeply hate? Would you be nice to them anymore? I doubt it, sometimes I feel people are nice to each other just to get a free ride to heavan.

I wouldn't change the way I am at all.

I'm nice because I choose to be. Sure people piss me off sometimes, and I get mad and annoyed at them, but unless they do something completely disrespectful for no reason, there's no reason not to be nice. Some people say that I'm too nice and I get taken advantage of, but I think it's just my nature. My mum is one of the nicest people in the world, and I've always tried to be like her.

I don't think I would change at all...I would still act as I do now.     

I find that I'm a better person than most "church-goers" anyway. They say Dont steal, Dont drink, Dont fornicate, Dont lie... Funny how they steal your money with an offering plate and get to be tax free, they go boozing right after service while fucking a prostitute and then lie to the other churchies that they don't do that...WHATEVER!!? :rant:

As Bill Hicks says, Nothing more--- :smoking:

Be kind to the other viruses though.? ;)[/color]

No, were there no laws then we would all act differently.

As for no God...Well, the majority of the western world are athiests anyway, so what's it matter?

I feel that there would be far more difference in society as a whole, rather than the individual.

As far as my faith goes, I'm very undecided. I'd like to believe, I really would.

I don't think though that, were I to find out that there was no afterlife, none of that stuff, that I would become an arsehole over night.


That was one of the dumbest things that I've read on this forum all week,

and given the current trend that's pretty impressive.

Good god, I actually agree with Jim  :nervous:

Anyway I'd act the same....

Well as i do not believe in the Afterlife or God or Religion the answer is No id be just the same as i am now

That's true, but I do love the Bill Hicks quote she left after that.

Fuck, I must have been wrong then.


Aye, for is why I didn't include it in the quote.

Extra points for including that.

Thats kinda hard to answer because if there were no GOD and our parents and our parents parents etc acted like viligantes, then it would definitely had an affect on how we act today.

I think the world would be an unlivable place if not for beliefs in GOD

say what u want to about God and religion but I think it helps humans for the most part behave and function as a society.

If u had no GOD u probably wouldnt have any laws and I cant imagine this world without any laws.

I'm not saying you would be an asshole or a lawbreaker. I'm just implying we wouldn't put up with as much shit we get from others than we do right now. If I heard there was no god, I'd go up this kid Matt and I'd tell him, "You're an immature little fuck-off who annoys everyone because your brother is talented and you're not. Go fuck yourself and stay the hell away from me!"

Obviously I wouldn't say that to him today. But if there was no afterlife, I probably would.

So the only reason that you haven't gone and said that to this kid called Matt (why you would want to is beyond me) is because you want to get into heaven?

You're weak dude, real weak.

No, it just seems like carma would act negatively to me. If I knew there was no god, I wouldn't worry about carma either.

 :hihi: :hihi:

I think *Izzy* and Jim will be brothers in their next lives.

What, Carma Electron? What's she going to do to you?

(See what I did there? Acting 'negatively' towards you...? Never mind.)

Anyway, I've made up my find that this debate is pointless.

Not only would the certainty that there is no god, and consequently no afterlife, completly change common ethics, but it would entirely change human nature.

At least if you want to believe, like Descartes', that we are born with a priori knowledge (innate ideas), being the notion that there is a god (as well as maths, and...something else) is inbended from birth; every functioning society since the monkey's have held some concept of a god or higher power, and because it would seem that we can never view the infinite, our notion of it must come from somewhere. We, as finite beings, must have inherrited this idea of the infinite from somewhere, seeing as the human mind is only capable of replicating in various ways, it cannot create anything new; painting a picture is done by taking all sorts of things that you have seen with your eye and rearranging them. Scientific formula is built upon what is already known. And so on...

My point is, this is a baseless question of the month, being that were you to be certain that there was not a god nor an afterlife, not only would you definatly cease to act in the same way, but you would cease to be the same person.

I already know that...

How?

I think rationally thats how - stories told to ensure control over peasants and make money told thousands of years ago have as little relevance today as they did then

Hey have some respect to AXL  :rant:

 :D

Oh I have respect for Axl! IMO Axl should replace God. He'd do a better job! : ok: :love:

But AXL = God so that means you are saying Axl music isn't good?  :o  :nervous:

 :hihi:

If I thought that, I wouldn't be here would I! ;)

I know :D

Good! : ok:

I think the Dalai Lama said it best.

Consider the following. We humans are social beings. We come into the world as the result of others' actions. We survive here in dependence on others. Whether we like it or not, there is hardly a moment of our lives when we do not benefit from others' activities. For this reason it is hardly surprising that most of our happiness arises in the context of our relationships with others.

Nor is it so remarkable that our greatest joy should come when we are motivated by concern for others. But that is not all. We find that not only do altruistic actions bring about happiness but they also lessen our experience of suffering. Here I am not suggesting that the individual whose actions are motivated by the wish to bring others' happiness necessarily meets with less misfortune than the one who does not. Sickness, old age, mishaps of one sort or another are the same for us all. But the sufferings which undermine our internal peace -- anxiety, doubt, disappointment -- these things are definitely less. In our concern for others, we worry less about ourselves. When we worry less about ourselves an experience of our own suffering is less intense.

What does this tell us? Firstly, because our every action has a universal dimension, a potential impact on others' happiness, ethics are necessary as a means to ensure that we do not harm others. Secondly, it tells us that genuine happiness consists in those spiritual qualities of love, compassion, patience, tolerance and forgiveness and so on. For it is these which provide both for our happiness and others' happiness.

I would be a lot more spontaneous.

Be spontaneous anyway.  It's the best way to live.

God is irrelevant.  There is only Synergy.

^ this guy is starting to piss me off.

OK, I learned what "synergy" is.

Its a positive relationship between two things. I hope that explains something...

No, I knew and know what synergy is. He just won't stop talking about it. He isn't adding to any conversations, he's just mentioning synergy in every bloody thread.

Yea I know. But I wasn't sure if anyone actually knew what it meant, regardless of the annoyance of the constant "There is only Synergy" posts.

god is a concept by which we measure our pain.

Are you turning into MoombaBiotch, Axlfreek? :rofl:

When Axlfreek and MoombaBiotch cum come together there is good synergy.

:rofl: Just like when George Bush and Tony Blair come together there is BAD synergy?


:puke: AAAGH BAD THOUGHTS!!

kinda like me and your mom

Jeez... the "Your Mom" jokes. Tsk tsk tsk. I thought you were better than that Axlfreek!! :hihi:

i was being sarcastic.

In a philisophical debate?

:hihi: Philosophical debate my ass!

Lets get back to the actual philosophy part now! : ok:

I think that if I knew for certain that there was no God, I wouldn't act any differently anyway cuz I don't believe in God anyway! : ok: :hihi:

You must believe in something though, surely, even if it isn't a God?

Otherwise everything just seems pointless.

Yep! I believe in reincarnation. It just seems the obvious thing really... when you think about it.

Obviously.

Care to explain how it is obvious?

Well, all that Heaven and Hell stuff is complete bullshit, but I refuse to believe that you just ... stop existing.

And if you don't stop existing, and you don't go to Heaven or Hell, then you MUST come back as someone/something else.

Think about it. You're alive. Look at something... anything, and then imagine trying to think how to look at it when you're dead. You can't.

Personally what I think happens is this: You die, you lose all your memories, and for a while, you lie in the ground until you rot away, and then you're reborn as someone or something else. Perhaps on another planet, perhaps even in another universe, but you come back. And it continues.

The only reason the Earth's population has risen so much is because we're destroying all the forests and natural animal habitats, and killing thousands of millions of animals, and they're all coming back as humans.

And becoming activists! : ok: :hihi:

I hope I come back as a donkey. Or a cow. No, not a cow. Cows get abducted by aliens too much.

I hope I come back as a cat. : ok:

Wolf. :yes:

The Gladiator?

Yeah, the Gladiator.

Thank god for that, I'd thought you'd gone all weird on us and were considering comming back as that dirty animal.

You come back as Wolf, I'll be Hunter, and together we'll take over the world.

What'll Jarmo come back as I wonder? : ok:

Jarmo will never die.

Of course not! His soul will live on! But his body will eventually die! But his soul will find another being to inhabit. : ok:

I'm just wondering what it is! :yes:

Jarmo will inhabit a hedgehog :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

But does there have to be a point?

Ha! :hihi:

He meant there has to be a point to Life. AKA if there's no nothing after we die, then why do we exist in the first place!?

'I can well imagine an atheist's last words: "White, white! L-L-Love! My God!"?and the deathbed leap of faith. Whereas the agnostic, if he stays true to his reasonable self, if he stays beholden to dry, yeastless factuality, might try to explain the warm light bathing him by saying, "Possibly a f-f-failing oxygenation of the b-b-brain," and, to the very end, lack imagination and miss the better story.'

Everything has a point.

that would suck to come back as bateria

Because of a scientific occurence that happened purely by chance. God was invented merely because early man needed an explanation for an existence they couldn't explain or, in some cases, needed the threat of eternal hell to keep them in line.

Well, we've been asking these same questions since the very beginning and, dispite all that mankind has discovered, we're not getting any closer to finding answers.  There's only one way to discover the truth and I don't wanna go that way just yet.  I'll find out what's out there one day, just like we all will, but I reakon the real meaning of life is just to get on with it - live through the curiosity, reproduce if you can and prepare the next generation for what's to come.  In the end, death is the great adventure. :yes:

Communist China... yes, but why are WE so intelligent? Why are we the ones ruling the earth? Why not dogs, or horses, or cats? Why are WE so special that we're the ones to invent cars and buildings and jobs and music and all the things that separate us from animals?

That's what I asked. NOT "How did we get here?". We know how we got here! We evolved over millions and millions of years from single cell life-forms.

The question is WHY.

We rule because we have thumbs. Thumbs rule.

Yeah, thumbs are great.

Our intelligence is our defence mechanism, it's what keeps us alive and makes us prosper as a species. ?Some animals have horns, some have poison and some have wings. ?We have intelligence. ?And I don't know why.

We're best adapted to survive in this world. Our intelligence and thumbs come from an evolutionary process, the same process that made it beneficial to be a giant reptile with huge teeth (dinosaurs) some time ago. Nows it's our turn, and eventually a different species will inhabit the earth.

Wow... I wonder what that species will be!! :peace:

Our physical traites play a role and how it relates to the earths enviorment, like you mentioned, so the next dominent species will probably come from the sea. Especially with how the enviorment is changing ( ie: global warming, the polar ice caps melting, destruction of the ozone and rainforest). I read somewhere that the next dominent species that will evolve will be the dolphin. Dolphins are supposed to be more intelligent than we are right now.

Yes... dolphins will soon take over the world. "Soon".


:rofl:

Just like on the Simpsons!!!  :rofl:

Oh yea! I fuckin' love that episode!! Its hilarious! :rofl:

If anyone's up for a good read, just check out the book The End of Faith by Sam Harris.

Would I change how I act?  Of course not.  People who behave a certain way they consider "moral" just so they can get into heaven after they die are what I call "lunatics."   :yes:

I don't consider those people lunatics.  However, to me it's not relevant to lead a good life to have eternal happiness.  I feel that it's more important to lead a good life for the sake of being a good person.  Small things that people of differing religious views fight over (like premarital sex, birth control, and alcohol consumption) shouldn't matter.  Instead, the fundamental principles under which a normal person would lead a life should be observed (such as not causing harm to another person).  To me, everyone is entitled to their own views, but a concern for an afterlife should not impact how a person acts.  This is because not everyone believes in an afterlife or superior being, and people can neither prove nor disprove their existence.  In the meantime, we are here, so we should lead civil and sociable lives.