Here Today... Gone To Hell!

What is the meaning of life?

OK, now I realize that this is probably the most generic philosophical question of all-time, but it's also the most widely asked and discussed. So, for this installment of PQOTM, it's back to the basics.

I have spent many a day smoking cigarettes while watching passerby's, or spent many a nights awake, lying in bed, thinking about what is the meaning of it all. I've tried to make sense of what life is all about, often coming to different conclusions, sometimes depending on my mood.

Right now I don't think that there really is a meaning. I don't see a grand plan, a cosmic scheme, or much meaning or point to anything. I think we come into being from emptiness, we live, we die, more emptiness. Life is but a brief state of consciousness? sandwiched between two eternities of nothingness.

That said, I don't think that everything need be all gloom and doom. Does there really need to be a point? While we are here we can just enjoy the time that we have. Perhaps the brevity of life makes it all the more precious.

Bit early for June, isn't it? This old lady in the retirement home I used to know sums it up nicely. She was terminally ill and talked about not believing in god or heaven. She believed when life ended, that was it. One of my colleagues asked her if she wasn't afraid to die because of her beliefs, and wouldn't she be more comfortable if life didn't end when we die. She looked at my co-worker in disbelief and replied " But dear, isn't this enough for you?" There you go, life doesn't really have a point, just enjoy the ride!

Needless to say, as I'm a girl, my point of view changes every 5 minutes. Ask me again in half an hour and you might get a different answer! :peace:

While I find it logical that life has no meaning and we should just ?enjoy the ride,? I also find that answer to be completely unsatisfying. It?s not enough. I want to wake up and go to bed believing that there is a reason. But what if there is not? What if there is no God? Sometimes I take comfort in this belief because I feel less stress; even if I am a failure, it ultimately doesn?t matter. But I also feel disillusioned by the thought that life has no meaning.   

sometimes i feel like the whole universe is a series of coincodental set of events. like one event inspires the next to happen, like there is no such thing as fate. but like godiva said my point of vewi changes alot too (even though i'm not a female).

but if you do look at the big piture, wheather there is a god or not, what you do during your life, what kind of things you buy, what people you meet, what you acomplish, really doesn't make any difference at all. life has a 100% death rate and in 500 years nobody will remember you or aknwoledge what you have done. but that still doesn't mean im not gonna try and be succeful and do good things and treat people the way they would treat me.

All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be...


Still, cheer up Dave Gilmour, it's not all bad!? Our universe is a wonderful gift - whether it be a gift from science, God, or both - and all we can do while we're here is enjoy ourselves and try to experience as much of the world as we can.

*Ahem*

But that's not actually answering the question, so i'm gonna start again.? The meaning of life is to live and reproduce - that's the goal of every animal on the planet and humans are no different.? It's why we enjoy sex, it's why we enjoy food, it's why we fear death and it's why we were given the gift of free thought.? Our intelligence is the ultimate survival machanism, more effective than big jaws, hard skin or fast legs.? Humans have always organised themselves and formed towns so that everyone can be safe together and our race (the human race) can expand.? We're not all that different from a virus in that respect, though we are maybe a little more evolved than that. ;D

now that my philosophy courses are finished for summer, i'm looking at physics - y'know, going a bit crazy and letting my hair down - and at the basis of it is essentially probability. which is kinda frustrating.

it either means god (assuming He exists, and created ALL) gave not only us free will but the universe free will too, or that god (assuming he exists, but is not all powerful) created the universe but does have complete control of the basics - sort of a caretaker - or that essentially we are just dust in the wind (dust....wind...dood (Bill & Ted)) and we're randomly floating about and there is no real, greater, meaning to life. I go for option 3

time, matter and energy will all eventually cease to be.

"whats'a problem? you came from nothing, you're going back to nothing. what have you lost? Nothing"


Thats the short answer

Its your life - it has whatever meaning you choose to give it

Dude!? When you die, you lose everything!? Just because you start life from scratch it doesn't mean you have nothing to lose.? If you were in mortal danger you would surely fight for your life, to be able to see your loved ones again or to be able to eat pizza for one last time.? Am I wrong?

Life is everything and we have everything to lose. : ok:

I should have given credit to that quote. Its what eric idle says to brian of nazareth when they're up on the cross and about to start singing "always look on the bright side of life" at the end of the life of brian.

Sort of a jokey answer to the grand question of "whats the meaning of life?" after the bullshit i'd spouted before.

It wasn't tecniqually the short answer anyway, as in reality even when there was "nothing", there was something; and where there is "nothing" nowadays there is still something; and even when time, matter and space cease to exist and everything has become "nothing" there is still something. So you are right; when it comes to life, there's no such thing as nothing, really. But it was eric idle who said that, not me.

Anyway, who really cares. Wouldn't it be better just to look at this cute kitten and forget all our worries?

(http://www.cute-kittens.com/kitten20.jpg)

Awwwwwww.

Yup.

So if you think that counting blades of grass is the meaning of life, than that's just as meaningful as anything else? Charles Manson's life was just as meaningful as Mother Teresa's then. All meaning is subjective?

sex.
more sex.

die.

Seriusly tho, I think that's down to the root of things, if earth would be at it's primitive state and there would be no tv etc that's all I would do, and throw rocks at lions if life got too boring.

And I'd also invent something to better the life qualitees, like a waterbed, or a roller coaster.

But yeah, I'd agree life is about survival instinct, getting some offspring, and  making your life better with the spare time you have left. For an example getting good memories.

Yup.

the meaning of life is to play.
it's all a big game.
rules are written. we all play. it's all one big inter-dependencies system.

I've realised the majority of philosophical questions set by Nixon usually involve an element of religion.

As a Muslim, life is a test set down by Allah and we have to pass it in order to get into the best afterlife. A lot of you think it's silly but i disagree. All time in life is valuable and we must keep our worldy gains in order as well as our religious gains.
The thing is Allah already knows what's going to happen so the question is, why are we living? Why aren;t we already in our destinations of jannat/heavenly gardens and jahannam/hell?

Well i believe it's because it's like you can;t be caught red handed for committing a crime you haven;t yet committed or planned to commit. There maybe some other explanation only Allah knows as Allah knows best.

I respect you all may think i'm loony but thats my answer.

"Well i believe it's because it's like you can;t be caught red handed for committing a crime you haven;t yet committed or planned to commit. There maybe some other explanation only Allah knows as Allah knows best."

Then why doesn't God create people without the ability to commit sin. Why not create people who are perfect and unable to harm others. People can still have free will, it's just that they wont have it in them to hurt.

On a side note, in Islam, I really like the saying that Allah is closer to you than your jugular vain.

"I've realised the majority of philosophical questions set by Nixon usually involve an element of religion."

The two (religion and philosophy) are inseparable, no?

i like that quote

charles manson never killed anyone... either did mother teresa...

I think life is a learning process. Maybe we're supposed to learn the true meaning of love, that unconditional kind of love. If you can get to a point where you care about everyone, even the ones who don't care about you, then maybe you've learned a lot.


Then that wouldn't really be free will. God wants us to learn why we shouldn't hurt others.

Thats not correct journey. God could (as god is infinetly powerful and infinetly wise) make you better at moral decisions. Our conscience is already quite powerful, why didnt he make it more powerful?

Journey, when you are the top of a building and want to get to the bottom do you jump off the roof or take the stairs? You take the stairs. Why? Because God made you good at making these sorts of decisions. But it doesnt affect your free will. You can still jump off the roof if you want, its just that God made you better at making those choices.

The exact same goes for moral decisions.

what about when i shoot an african kid in the head with my ak-47 ?

It's as powerful as it gets.
 

Well most people take the stairs and most people don't hurt others. But there are a few who choose to take a more painful path and that's not God's fault. God's not a puppet master, therefore he can't control us or choose for us.

Journey, now your taste in music makes complete sense to me.  I mean that as a compliment and not a back-handed one. 

My problem with God and free will is that God allows innocents to be harmed by others' exercise of their free will.  And what about natural disasters?  How can God allow that?  Is he merely an observant bystander watching us fuck up our lives and having a good laugh at it?

Sometimes it seems that God is punishing humans for choosing free will.  God told Adam and Eve not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, but when they did, he made them pay for it.  This theme is consistent with many Christian religions that tell you to "surrender" your life to Jesus and only then will you be saved.  The message is that free will is a bad thing because we ultimately make bad choices; so let God make them for us.  I find it impossible to reconcile that image of God as all-loving and all-merciful.

Not sure what any of that has to do with the meaning of life, but I think the dude with the picture of the kitten was on to something.   
   

To say our consience is as powerful as it gets is a cop out. Ofcourse it can be more powerful - God should be able to do anything being all powerful and all knowing. If not then the whole thing falls apart.


99.9% of people take the stairs 99 times out of a hundred  - God made us good at those decisions.
No where near that amount of people do the morally right thing in every situation - God made us poor at those decisions.

I'm not saying that god wants to control us - but i've proven he can make us better at choosing things without affecting our free will; so why didn't (or cant) he make us better at choosing the morally right thing more often.

I always struggle with those two questions. There's no easy explanation. As far as innocent people being harmed, that can be prevented. We as a people, have a personal/moral responsibility to protect one another. The natural disaster element is very puzzling though. But I'm certain that God doesn't get any enjoyment from it.



I don't think God wants to do the thinking for us. I've always seen it as he wants to be trusted as someone we can turn to when we do find ourselves in difficult situations. He's there for guidance rather than rulership.


It all circles back to our innate selfishness. Of course a person will take the stairs instead of plummeting to his death, because he wants to preserve the life he values (his own). That's the moral dilemma. The lesson of life is to understand the importance of everyones lives not just your own.

You sidestepped my question.

I've proven that god can improve our decision making process without affecting free will. Why didnt God make us better at choosing the right moral path?

If we all came equipped with the all-knowing mind, then things would be easy breezy and fair weathered forever. But what would we learn from that? What would be the point of the whole earthly experience? There would be no need for it. Our minds are strong from the beginning, but we have to evolve emotionally and spiritually through trail and error in order to become that well-rounded person. It's a natural process.

you've sidestepped my question again, and misrepresented me. i never said god should make us all knowing. i said he should've made us better, not perfect.

just as we are good at making common sense decisions why didnt god make us BETTER at moral decisions?

Well most common sense decisions are instinctive. Morality is the most complex element. The common sense parts of our lives keep us surviving. The moral situations allow us to keep learning and building our conscientious structure.

I think if God were to have made us better in that sense, then that would've tampered with us learning how to become better on our own. Which is the point I was trying to make about the meaning of life. We have to learn to become that "better" person, in order to come full circle and experience true enlightenment.

The lesson can be pretty harsh.

But some refuse to see God.

Also, don't forget that every decision you make has consequences.

For every good move, there are negative consequences.
For every horrible thing, there are good consequences.

Our world has martyrs, yes.

Our world has shitheads with the possibility to steal murder rape and kill, yes.

Bu then, who's to say we don't vome back ?
Who's to say we don't have to make amends in the future to people we once hurt ?

Couldn't it be the why we arent better at decisions?

Could it be that we to learn HOW to take the decisions ?

so god thinks its more important we struggle (and in most cases fail) to learn lessons about life than actually living in a world where people treat each other well.

sorry, but thats absolutely crazy. if that is what god wants then He is dememented and is fucking with us.


No, if God were truelly all-loving then he'd have made the world better.

The meaning of life is really whatever a person makes of life. Meaning the meaning of life is decided by the person who is control of his life and what he/she decides for his/her life is all up to them or SHOULD BE UP TO THEM. 

as has already been pointed it this theory it pretty much flowery nonsense. the universe isnt completely subjective and simply because i say "the meaning of life is shiting yourself, steweing the feaces in your underwear for days on end and then dumping said poop on the Pope's head" does not make it so.

whhy would WE be in the center of your questions ?
we're just human.

then again, 2nafish, your example is correct, that would be the meaning of "your" universe.
and as you must know, you are just one little element in MY universe, eveyrthing revolves around me. and you must think the same way.

i agree with you. The reason why Allah doesn't create "perfect beings" in every manner is because Allah challenges mankind to be the best they can. He probably has created the perfectly harmless beings like you mentioned but we don't notice or know. Anyway the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is our model of perfection. He's the most perfect human being. Not any of his close relatives or friends could say anything negative about him. Whether you believe this or not is not in my hands.

Religion and philosophy are inseperable.

religion and philosophy are not inseparable. for you religion involves itself with every stage of life; but not for everyone. (unless you loosely categorize any sort of faith whatsoever as a religion)

bessam, you are indeed the shining star in my world; i'd wither and die without you.

Because evil exists.

so because evil exists God didnt make us better at moral decisions? I don't understand that.

Common sense decisions will be of the selfish sort far more often than "moral" ones.

Evil hampers one's ability to always make the "morally right" decision.

god is supposed to be infinetely powerful; surely he could make people more selfish towards making morally right decisions.

or simply have less evil in the world.

evil is what makes us better people.

It makes us think, it makes us evolve, it makes us want to be better so we never become it ( evil)

If the world was all good, people would become self indulgent and therefore, problems would arise, again and things would probably be worse, as people who self indulge usually tend to have vices and vices become uglier and therefore, we go back to evil.

So either you have a small percentage of evil or the whole society.

God wants a balance.

Fat/thin
Rich/poor
Healthy/ill
................................

Without the balance, it's chaos.

I believe life is about being good to others. Being a servant for humanity. To give hope to others.

God or no God why not just be the best person you can be and hope other people see and follow your lead?

Agreed. I think a lot of people try to live by that philosophy.

Why would eternal peace bring chaos? Surely it's in God's power to have that, to create people that would be unable to harm, to make it so there would never be natural disastrous. Why not just create an everlasting heaven to begin with. Why bother with tests and making humanity jump through hoops?

when humanity learns too fast, they self destruct

also, i don't think god has any business with man creation..modified dna over millions of years does ;)

It's clear to me that God never intervines with everyday life - he created the universe and left it to take its natural course.? Humans are wonderfully complex animals with a wide spectrum of emotion and phenominal intelligence, yet still you're saying that he didn't make us perfect.? That's just nitpicking, dude.? As a race we have collonised the entire planet, we've produced wonderful art, we've reached the moon and all the time we're discovering new things about the world and finding new toys to invent.? Yes there are arseholes in the world and pain and cruelty do exist, but that doesn't disprove God's existence.

Humans are tested in this world which is why there is so much evil. They're tested till death because life is just one big test. It's an ongoing battle life is. And there'll be select few who will definately go to Paradise not a majority. It's survival of the fittest kinda thing.

Close, but not good enough.

I can accept that a lot of evil in the world is soul building and a necessity. But not all of it.

What is the soul building benefit of the holocaust, for example?

and i find the idea that god tests us quite insulting. That we are there for his amusement somehow.

God tests on things that help us. Wars and massacres are our own doings. Some people develop a superiority complex, thinking that their lives are more important (for various reasons) than others. That's when the trouble starts. But everyone has a voice inside telling them when they're doing wrong. Some choose not to listen.

God sees all the good, as well as all the bad. Should he destroy the world because of all the bad things? Or should he keep it going because of the good?

W. Axl Rose  ---  Thats the answer.

no. thats not correct. sakib said "Humans are tested in this world which is why there is so much evil". Therefore the evil put in this world comes from god as a test. Including atrocities like the holocaust. Where is the benefit of the holocaust?

And anyway, that just comes back to the point i made a dozen times that you never answered - if all the atrocities in the world which are not soul building come from us why didnt god make us better at making moral decisions. Remember i've already proven that god can improve any of our decision making processes without affecting free will.

He did make us better at making moral decisions. There's not one person in my life who's ever murdered anyone, raped anyone, robbed anyone, etc.....

You're concentrating on all the people who do bad things rather than good. Look at Gandhi, Mother Teresa, M.L.K., Dalai Lama and others like them. You think they crashed at making good moral decisions? There are people in this world who would give their lives up for total strangers.

Everyone is equal in morality from the start, but because of free will, the world is divided.

you've still not answered my question.

i don't deny that there are good people in the world, why you bring that up i have no idea. But when talking about the nature of evil its a necessity to look at evil. and free will doesnt come in to it. i've already proven that god can affect our decision making without affecting free will

Why did god allow some people to stoop so low in their moral decision making? why didnt he make them better? - as he is able to do.

Tuna, I'm trying to understand your motivation. ?I'm assuming that your ultimate point is that God does not exist because if an all-powerful, all-loving God really existed we would be perfect beings and there would be no evil. ?Is that correct? ?

If so, what answers are you looking for? ?The paradox of God co-existing with evil has never been and never will be adequately resolved. ?You seem like an intelligent guy, so I'm sure you understand that issue won't be resolved in this thread. ?

Anyway, what do you think? God or no God, what is the meaning of life?


 

basically i'm trying to prove that an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving god wouldn't allow this much evil in the world. not that an all-KPG God would make a perfect world; just a better one. and i certainly understand that the issue won't be resolved here (i lived with a fundamentalist christian for a year. he's a  great guy and we used to debate this issue a fair bit. it never got heated tho, just something to flex our brains a bit. he was also studying to be a lawyer and i studied philosophy so the two contrasting styles were fun)

but this is a philosophical thread and i'm engaging in a philosophical argument with people of a different view point. essentially i'm playing devil's advocate tho, and just providing responses to what people are saying. I feel that too often people of faith fit their answers around the questions i ask, rather than having a belief structure set out that provides an answer to any question i put forward.

my views on the meaning of life are on the first page; however (incredibly hypocritically i must say) i'd prefer not to debate them as i can't back them up as i don't really know the quantum physics involved. its just a theory that interests me. its the one i like the most currently, but i'd be lieing if i said i expected it to be true.

I've tried to answer it the best I can.


Because it seems like your main concern is focused on the evil of the world.


That's not possible. If someone in your life controlled your decision making, would you consider yourself free?

By the way, I don't think evil is necessary. It exists, because people allow it to.

i've aleady proven god doesnt control our decision making; but he can improve it. remember the jumping off a building scenario? we're good at common sense, poor at morals. why not make us better at moral decisions - not perfect, just better so that so much bad stuff doesnt happen.

and what about the asian tsunami? surely that is evil and i'd be surprised if you could say that exists because people allowed it.

also; god is the master creater. he created everything. and since evil exists, surely he created that too.

To improve would be to control.


Maybe there's another powerful force that created evil.

That is exactly correct and judging from your thoughts on the meaning of life, you're no different. ?I think the reason for that goes back to our self-preservation instinct. ?Having a rigid belief structure leaves you open to the possibility of total disillusionment, which has the potential to shake the foundation of our lives, cause a nervous breakdown, etc, etc. ?

i've already proven that it would not be to control with the jumping off a building analogy.

as for your second point. Go read the bible. You should find out why your point is wrong within the first paragraph.

i'm sorry, i don't quite get what you mean with the first sentence.

the only thing i would say is that up untill i read this thread i'd honestly never seriously asked myself what the meaning of life is. mine was just the first theory that came to mind. on any other given day i'd probably have spouted off some utilitarianism shit. generally i just like playing devil's advocate.

and what if life had no meaning ?

No purpose ?

can't it be we are stupid animals with no directions apart from eat, sleep, fuck and die ?

Your stair analogy doesn't prove the point, for me anyway.

As for the bible, it's been tampered with so much in the past.. Who's to say what's been taken out and added on. Besides, not everyone goes by the holy bible. There are other religions.

yeah, but not the opening paragraph of genesis stating that god created everything. and most other religions say god created everything. Anyway, if you honestly believe that something else cause natural disasters (evil not caused by man, like you said) then id love to know what that is.

the stair analogy, one last time.

humans 99 times out of a hundred will take the stairs. we are good at those types of decisions. great in fact. we are great at them because god made us great at them. we still have the free will to jump if we choose to, but we dont. why? because we're great at those decisions.

we don't have as high a rate when it comes to moral decisions why, because god made us poor at those decisions. we've always got the free will to do wrong, but why didnt god make us better. so that more often than we do now, we do the morally right thing?

if you can't see how that proves that god can tamper with decision making and not affect free will then i despair.

"Today, a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration... that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There's no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves......Bill Hicks

here's tom with the weather.

That is very possible, but what difference would it make?  We'd still rather be alive than dead and most of us would still care about being decent, moral people.

Sorry I wasn'y more clear... sometimes it gets hard to sneak in posts while I'm at work!   : ok:

Anyway, my point was that most people, including yourself (seemingly, at least), prefer not to invest too heavily in a rigid belief structure and a be all, end all meaning of life because if it turns out that everything you've believed is wrong, then what?  So, basically, I was just giving that as the reason why many people's responses to your interrogatories are adapted to your questions (as opposed to having a belief structure that can adequately respond to every question you pose).

With that said, it seems that your driven to prove that no belief structure can stand up to your interrogation. ;) :peace:

well, i do try.....


....i don't think people need a rigid belief structure to enter into a debate like this. but if you're going to believe in something then do a little research. i mean faith is one thing, but alot of the questions i've asked have had responses from people that are clearly thinking on their feet. they've never conceived these sorts of situations could come up and if your not questioning your on faith then you're doing it a disservice.

like you said earlier, this situation isnt going to be resolved here - which means there must be adequate responses to every question i've posed. and there are, loads of them; i'd be happier if people knew what they were buying in to before they signed up to having a particular faith.

my role here was not to try and change or destroy peoples faith (i made my fundamentalist christian friend from the last page question his faith once and felt terrible and spent half an hour proving to him how i'd "tricked" him into the situation were i'd "proven" god didnt exist) but too many people are blind with their faith and that annoys me. and something tells me if the god they believed in exists he'd be annoyed at that too (actually, thats monumentally presumptuous)

That was a test for Hitler and the Nazis and the fact that they managed to corrupt Germany and maybe have a domino effect on a few other countries, it just goes to show how pathetic racial grudges are. It could actually be considered a test for others to show don't be so easily deceived (as people thought Nazis were great) and never over or underestimate anything (people thought Nazis were a joke at first. little did they realise they'd make history big time). It could be that Allah wanted to test faith of people in hope that they'd turn to Allah and the right religion/right path by putting them in extremeties of awful conditions (german economy was awful).
If we were all better at making moral decisions life wouldn't be a test now would it? Life is a trial remember and like a test, some elements of the test are harder than the others.

Allah knows best though

I highly doubt life has no meaning as all of us are a bunch of atoms compiled together constructed of so much information it's enough to fill 1,000,000 pages of information and that's just one molecule of DNA and that's invisible and then the conditions of the Earth are too perfect for us to live in that to say it all happened as a mere coincidence is an empty and baseless statement.

why would life cease to be a test if people were better at making moral decisions? if people were perfect id say that was true, but just making people better? not at all.

And considering that there are infinite chances (my theory comes down to probabilty at the most basic level) then it is no longer mere coincidence. Just because things are infineltly complex does not prove creationism (Intelligent Desing is simply a trumped up way of disguising a tired theory) as there are infinite possibilities. A thousand monkeys at a thousand typewriters will give shakespeare.

which creationism? The one in islam? Christianity? Hinduism? And if people were slightly more perfect life would cease to be a test because nobody's challenged to the appropriate degree

any and all creationism effectively. i'm not arguing against a religion, just god.

so you're saying the world is perfect and as it needs to be? the holocaust is a necessity? asian tsunami too? 9/11? etc, etc.

If thats God testing us then he's having a joke at our expense.

well yes the world is perfect and Allah isn't having a joke. All these events, as morbid as they seem are perfect in Allah's yes because he's made the events happen. How could anyone learn or be tested without these events?Indonesia, a muslim state has had an earthquake/eruption of some sort. Why? Maybe because the muslim community is way too weak than maybe 500 years ago. A lot of muslims nowadays are less educated statistically and as a result less interested in islam than maybe a few centuries ago

A follow-up, related question:

Does life need to have meaning for it to be worth living?

What's driving your life forward if you don't have the meaning to it?

Whatever it is, offspring, career anything.

You don't really need something to drive your life forward. Everyday can be without meaning or hope. It becomes a choice. It?s either living, or committing suicide. If you don?t commit suicide, life is the only other choice, by default.

True, but I think there's something driving you forward anyway, whatever it is a hope or better tomorrow, or just getting laid the next time. Or getting a plate of hot soup. As opposite the lack of these will propably lead to suicide, for as I see that's what some people do when they feel everything is hopeless, or have you heard a happy person killing him or herself?

And this pretty much get's me to conclusion that your life happiness is caused by some goal of your life.

I don?t think achieving the goal causes happiness?It?s the hunt, the craving, the going after the goal. Once you have achieved what you wanted, it is less desirable and life has lost its luster. 

Wasn't that what I was saying?

But I think think achieving the goal also gives satisfaction, or do you think a team winning the worl championship don't feel good about it afterwards?

Briefly. But the thought of dying alone and spending the rest of eternity in a state of nothingness is always on the back of my mind. 

Perfect, there's your meaning of life for you - avoiding that.  Good luck!

Indeed it does otherwise we wouldnt't have any rubbish and we would be just exactly like any other animals in the woods. Anyway,

I really doubt human creation was a coincidence because how could so many atoms combine together to make a molecule so complex that it could take a million maybe more pages to record all that information within the DNA molecule and those pages encyclopaedia style. All that million pages of information isn't even visible, we have to use powerful microscopes. When DNA is copied, there is also a gene which creates Enzymes to help DNA replication and there are other protein molecules to fix the cell if any of the replication goes wrong.

Surely someone too intelligent for us must have created us. Surely it can't be mere coincidence. Surely what other possible reason could there be? Evolution is a pathetic baseless theory that has wasted maybe 150 years or so of Scientific history. There can indeed be effect without cause as shown by an experiment you maybe interested in but i want to stay on topic.

you're only argument is "surely it can't be coincidence".

That is not a logical argument. It is a hope.

I disagree. How can it be with the evidence i've given. It's logical that it must have been purposefully created.

your argument is not logical as it passes off hope as fact.

i never said the conclusion you reach is illogical, just the reasoning behind it. it is plausable that the world was purposefully created.

but your argument against evolution is that reality is too complex to have merely happened; which is no argument at all. just a whismisical hope. a thousand monkeys working at a thousand typewriters will produce shakespeare given eternity.

Given eternity? That's what gets me. Couldn't it be that got just decided to create animals based on a similar structure since there's no real evidence for evolution. The so called "Ancestor of Birds" was actually a bird. No evolution there. and a fossil like 70 million+ years old was found to be exactly like common birds today. Evolutionists were shocked.

o yeh and justs for the record, the so called ancestor of birds which actually was a bird is called the Archaeoptryx or summat like that

no real evidence for evolution? well thats patently a lie.

yet the evidence for god is overwhelming i suppose.

A few months back scientists discovered what they considered the missing link in regards to evolution.

Did you know that we thought we had our first " man" and last year, a team discovered another " man" who lived at the same era but who's physically more advanced, like this"other" man had physically fast forwarded 5.000 years ?

Also, they tested genes to know more about the new one and compared it the other and they found out the two manly species were totally imcompatible and yet lived at the same time.

So there was a genetically advanced specy along with a more" monkey like" one.

Interesting, " innit" ?

PLEASE don?t tell me that there are some people on this board that doubt the theory of evolution. You can believe in God and evolution as well, you know. You don?t have to pick one or the other.

Now, keep in my mind that this is coming from a 15 year old...


the meaning of life.
there is no meaning of life.
i am unsure what you mean by "meaning."
do you mean purpose?

the meaning of "guitar" for example, is an instrument, with six strings, etc.

but the meaning of "life" i am not so sure.

i think there are a few things that are certain, regarding life.

for one, life is precious. this thing we've got, conscious life, is rare and precious.

another thing is that all life, for plants to humans, dogs and cats, insects and reptiles, all life experiences suffering and non-suffering. life is surrounded by suffering. people find it everywhere. but, in real reality, suffering is caused by dillusions.

and since life is precious and filled with suffering, i believe that the purpose of life is to have compassion for all living things, and put effort into ending suffering and its causes, for the benifit of all living things.

The problem is the theory of evolution is rubbish, the evidence actually suggests against it. Secondly the theory is not anything new but is actually an ancinet greek-paganism ideology of some sort.

lets bring this topic back up 8)

c'mon ya'll.. what do u guys think? do u agree with my above post?

The theory of evolution is rubbish? It?s actually not so much a theory as it is a scientifically accepted fact by all scientists.     

Produce a link or something.............please.

evolution has yet to be proven unequivocably in every single case everywhere, therefore to it's "opponents" there is no proof whatsoever. there's little as powerful as denial.

It actually saddens me that in supposedly enlightened times people actively campaign against reality and would prefer people to believe the universe simple happened on the whim of some mystical entity.

Look for HARUN YAHYA book on THE MIRACLE OF THE CREATION OF DNA.


That is the reality that there was an actual creator. Again, HARUN YAHYA's book THE EVOLUTION DECEIT

You know what kind of makes me sad? If there is no afterlife, then there really is no justice. Think about all the immoral people that will just "get away with it."

life cant be that cruel

that can go the other way round. the good people don't get rewarded for what they do. does that mean we should just live. is there no purpose for doing good things? if we'll all die and there's nothing after that what's the point of living?

it's logical everything happens for a reason

EDIT: However those anti god believers on here there's various experiments that have occurred that've had an effect without cause. But then that suggests everything doesn;t necessarily have a cause. It also suggests a higher power in control in a cause we can't find