Here Today... Gone To Hell!

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/front/14697552.htm

The Immigration Debate | Then vs. Now
An old struggle to adapt to a new country's ways By Gaiutra Bahadur
Inquirer Staff Writer

PETER TOBIA / Inquirer
Joseph Vento, whose grandparents came from Italy, insists that customers at Geno's Steaks order in English. "Why should I have to bend?" he says.How do you say cheesesteak with in Spanish?

Joseph Vento, the owner of Geno's Steaks, doesn't know. And he doesn't care.

Just read the laminated signs, festooned with American eagles, at his South Philadelphia cheesesteak emporium: This is America. When Ordering, Speak English.

Vento's political statement - from a man whose Italian-born grandparents spoke only broken English - captures the anger and discontent felt by many Americans about illegal immigrants.

With a battle looming between the House and Senate on legalizing some immigration violators, the public backlash is framed by two complaints:

One, my grandparents came legally. How come these guys can't? And, two, my grandparents had to learn English. How come these guys don't?

"Go back to the 19th century, and play by those rules," said Vento, 66, whose grandfather became a U.S. citizen in 1921.

But history challenges many assumptions about the hurdles aspiring Americans used to face, say scholars of the last massive migration to the United States, which occurred between 1880 and 1920.

"There was no such thing as an 'illegal' immigrant," said Roger Daniels, a member of the Statue of Liberty-Ellis Island History Committee and author of Guarding the Golden Door: American Immigrants and Immigration Policy Since 1882.

The Old Country often required exit visas, which created the possibility of illegal emigrants. But the United States did not issue entry visas until 1921.

Before that, no meaningful immigration restrictions existed, except for a bar on Chinese enacted in 1882. Congress imposed no other limits on the number of immigrants - from any one country, or in total. About a million arrived each year in the early 1900s. It wasn't until 1924 that Congress imposed an annual cap of 155,000 immigrants.

"If you could get here and weren't terribly diseased, you could get in," Daniels said.

By contrast, backlogs, country quotas and annual caps now make legal immigration a tortuous and nearly impossible process for many, said Thomas Conaghan, director of the Irish Immigration and Pastoral Center in Upper Darby.

Past immigrants, once here, faced a backlash fueled by anxiety about religions, languages and races that were relatively new to the United States. Fear of anarchist and "Red" ideologies and the competition for jobs also played roles.

Help-wanted ads limited applicants to native-born Americans, said Kathryn Wilson, director of education at the Pennsylvania Historical Society.

Current critics of illegal immigration echo earlier generations of nativists, say academic experts on ethnicity.

"A lot of the rhetoric was similar: 'They don't speak English. They don't want to be Americans,' " said Mae M. Ngai, a University of Chicago historian and author of Impossible Subjects: Illegal Aliens and the Making of Modern America.

The Senate bill passed last Thursday, which gives some illegal immigrants a chance to become citizens, included an amendment that would make English the national language.

An English-only movement also took shape in the late 19th century, with an abortive attempt to require newcomers to read a passage in English at Ellis Island. In the end, the literacy test was administered, but in the immigrant's native tongue.

Joseph Vento's grandfather and namesake, a street-corner jeweler from Sicily, had trouble with English.

"They tried," Vento said of his grandparents. "They had a hard time. Look at the price they paid. They were limited."

The Ventos rarely left their South Philadelphia neighborhood. Now, in a way, the neighborhood has left the couple's descendants. Geno's sits at Ninth and Passyunk, the hub of Little Italy turned home to thousands of Mexicans.

Some try to order a cheesesteak. And it bugs Vento if they can't ask for American cheese, provolone or the classic - Cheez Whiz - without pointing.

"If you can't tell me what you want, I can't serve you," he said. "It's up to you. If you can't read, if you can't say the word cheese, how can I communicate with you - and why should I have to bend?

"I got a business to run."

Vento, who lives in Shamong, put up the signs when the immigration debate seized national headlines six months ago.

With Geno's Steaks tattooed on his arm, Vento is used to publicizing things, especially what's on his mind. Speak English signs also poster his Hummer. He has driven through South Philadelphia blaring through the SUV's P.A. system denunciations of neighborhood business owners who hire illegal immigrants.

"I say what everybody's thinking but is afraid to say," Vento said.

That many think as he does may be true. The dominance of Latinos among new immigrants has triggered a backlash, said Peter Skerry, a political scientist at the Brookings Institution.

Spanish-speakers make up about 30 percent of legal migrants and roughly 80 percent of illegal migrants, compared with the 21 percent preponderance of Italians a century ago.

"It's just a huge concentration . . . that raises questions for people about how these immigrants are assimilating," Skerry said.

He and other experts say that current immigrants are taking no longer to assimilate than Vento's grandfather did. Now, as then, English takes hold among the children of immigrants, and native languages disappear by the third generation.

What's different, Skerry said, is that many Americans now value multiculturalism, and technology allows it to flourish. Satellite TV beams soap operas from Latin America to U.S. living rooms, phones make it cheap and easy to connect with relatives back home, and airplanes allow a back-and-forth existence.

In society, "there is a notion that people are entitled to their own culture," he said. "Assimilation is a dirty word in many quarters. Sometimes, we don't even use the word anymore."

Vento is lashing out at that self-assertion by immigrants: "I don't want somebody coming here to change my culture to their culture," he said.

"They want us to adapt to these people. What do you mean, 'Press 1 for Spanish'? English, period. Case closed. End of discussion. You better make it the official language."

Its about fucking time someone took a stand. This is the United States, not a colony of Mexico. If I go to Mexico I dont expect the whole country to learn english and put up english signs so I can assimilate. Either learn some english, or get the hell out.

OMG - I went to that place the first night my girlfriend and I were in the states. It was like 2am and freezing + being Philly it felt like a ghetto round there.

Their cheesesteaks were appaling and the people serving were so rude!

Not pleasant. Hahaha, cant wait to show this to my girlfriend when she gets home.

I guess he is serving freedumb fries on the menu too?

LOL, I'd love to see him try that in Miami. He'd be closed down in a couple of weeks.

This is about as narrow minded as you can get. It is no wonder the rest of the world think we are a bunch of fucking morons..........we are!

No, we're not morons, we're just americans that want our country back. The two of us have discussed something similar to this at your forum. People in my state are sick of having to see everything in spanish. Hell, here in my area, most of the billboards are in spanish. Everywhere you go its spanish shoved down your throat. SLC, have you ever been to the amusement park Paramount's Great America? Its in Santa Clara, and is basically identical to a six flags theme park. For years, thay have had concerts for people to watch. Bands ranging from Kool and the Gang, Warrant, Slaughter, Pat Benatar, and a bunch of bands I cant remember over the years. Now, its 100% hispanic bands. No american performers whatsoever. Also, they cater to spanish people by serving so much mexican food. Is that the kind of america you want to live in? If it is, we all should just move to mexico.

I don't think what that guy is doing is the right way to go about it.

But how does it start then? Someone has to be the first to stand up and fight. Maybe this guy is the next Rosa Parks. :rofl:

Regardless of this I am personally tired of how the country caters to everyone elses native tongue... Years back you came through ellis island, you became an American, and if they feklt soemthing was wrrong they deported you or denied you access to the mainland.. Everyone learned the language and were damn proud of it... When I was in Italy I studied up first then tried my hardest to speak as much italian as possible, it was a sence of pride to me, respect for them... :peace:

Mike, the reason they dont do that anymore is because they dont have to. They consider us garbage. They want everything america has to offer and thats it. It has to be there way. God, I wish we had a real president. Reagan would never have allowed this to happen.

Oh jeez man........

Go to any major city in the USA and they speak different languages all over the place. This is nothing new.

This is a difficult issue - I agree that people living in the U.S. should not expect others to speak Spanish, Italian, or what have you...but I also feel that diversity is also important.   

Regarding Geno's cheesesteaks, their food isn't nearly as good as Pat's cheesesteaks right across the street IMO. 

 :hihi:

I'd bet we could track this back to the manager's office inside of Pat's..........

Just a hunch.

As I've said before, come take a trip out here to California and see if you're so sympathetic on the issue. Its an epidemic here. Believe me, your eyes will open to whats happening. The west coast is turning into a colony of mexico, and apparently no one gives a damn.

Pienso que usted obtiene un poco demasiado trabajado arriba sobre esto. Hay personas aqu? legalmente que no habla ni una palabra de ingl?s. ?Usted est? enterado de este derecho? ?Qu? dice usted a eso?

?Qu? es el punto verdadero? ?Est? la curva lejos personas qui?n no hablan ingl?s yendo realmente resolver nada?

indeed, I'm quite fed up with it myself.

We speak english here goddamnit!  :smoking:

who cares about your damn girlfriend ::)

We have just been on vacation.  On our way home, we stopped to take a ferry to the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island.  Everyone was speaking something other than English and my 6 year old asked if we were still in the United States!  :hihi:  He thought we left the country!

No chief, the Pat's & Geno's debate as to who is better has been going on for decades. And Pat's has been there since the 1930's, and most peope do think Pat's is better.

haha! that's a funny story. they are tough there. sorta like the soup nazi. but there are clear instructions posted on how to order.

and what's with the cheapshot at philly?? "ghetto"?? come on, man. philly rocks.

and you think the cheesesteaks were appalling??? blasphemy!!

and for the record, Geno's are better than Pat's.

Funny you said that about the soup nazi, I don't know about Geno's but Pat's would charge sometyhing like $.75 if they have to ask you if you want cheese or onions.. Or if you change you mind "With Provolone... no wait Wiz" etc. Basically, if they start to get annoyed with you. This is going back before Seinfeld episode.

Haha, Geno's is the first place you went in America?? Wow, yeah I can see how you would see that as "rude".

I'm not gonna get into the middle of the "should he/shouldn't he" Geno's debate.

But, in reading the above passage, I gotta say....I don't see the issue.

See, Paramount is a business. ?I assume they do quite a bit of demographic research (as most theme parks do) with exit surveys, etc. ?And they've found that a good portion of their attendance are of Hispanic decent (or enough of their attendance to make them a demo group they feel they need to address). ?So they're catering to their customers by giving them offerings they will want to consume.

It's the American Way working exactly as intended. ?Supply and Demand.

So what's the problem?

By Dan Whitcomb Fri May 19, 3:31 PM ET

HOUSTON (Reuters) -
President George W. Bush has long opposed making English the country's national language, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said on Friday, the day after the Senate voted to do so.

The vote came in an amendment to proposed legislation overhauling U.S. immigration law and directed the government to "preserve and enhance" the role of English. Opponents said it could affect the status of some multilingual services offered by government organizations.

Adding to the confusion, the Senate also adopted a softer amendment calling English the "unifying language" of the United States. Senators take both versions into negotiations over a final bill with the U.S. House of Representatives.

Gonzales did not directly address Bush's position on the controversial amendment because the Senate has not yet voted on the whole bill. But he said that Bush has in the past rejected such efforts.

"The president has never supported making English the national language," Gonzales said after meeting with state and local officials in Texas to discuss cooperation on enforcement of immigration laws.

He said Bush has instead long supported a concept called "English-Plus," believing that it was good to be proficient in more than one language.

"English represents freedom in our country and anybody who wants to be successful in our country has a much better chance of doing so if they speak English," Gonzales said. "It is of course a common language."

But, Gonzales said, "I don't see the need to have laws or legislation that says English is the national language."

While visiting Arizona on Thursday to press his plan to send up to 6,000 National Guard troops to the Mexican border spoke of the need to unite Americans.

"We've got to honor the great American tradition of the melting pot," Bush said. "Americans are bound together by shared ideals and appreciation of our history, of respect for our flag and ability to speak the English language."

Intervening in a recent furor over a Spanish-language version of the national anthem released by Latin pop stars, Bush said that the "Star-Spangled Banner" should be sung in English.

The United States currently has no official language and the amendment was showing signs of further inflaming an already incendiary issue, with Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada calling it "racist."

 ::)

Humor:

hu?mor Pronunciation (hymr)
n.
1. The quality that makes something laughable or amusing; funniness: could not see the humor of the situation.
2. That which is intended to induce laughter or amusement: a writer skilled at crafting humor.

the mexicans have some kind of underground movement going right now that they are going to take back california.. if not legally they will overrun it with sheer numbers so that its basicly still mexico .. they have a term for it and damn near all of them know about it too...

Yes, it is quite outrageous.

I've uncovered it and it is rather elaborate.

Operation name: Labor.

They come here under the guise of a poor immigrant trying to feed their family. They bust their ass laying tile, cutting grass, installing roofs in the 110 degree heat, picking up trash, cooking food and other jobs nobody wants to do. They'll do this for years, before unraveling their master plan.

Eventually when enough here, they will overthrow the government, put up the Mexican flag and have Jon Secada sing the National Anthem in Spanish (oh wait.......he already did that for Bush. Disregard)

no its some kind of underground assimilation plan they have... The radicals... im sure if you google it you can find the word for it... I know you were being sarcastic about it but there is some kind of radical assimilation plan they have a term for now. Since they claim california belonged to mexico before we "took" it..  some spansish word for "no borders" or something..

Some Mexicans use the term "reconquista," which is Spanish for reconquest, to describe their desire to see California, New Mexico, Arizona and Texas acquired by Mexico and named the new country of Aztlan. They are teaching their youth that the United States "stole" those areas from Mexico and that they should be "returned."

The United States acquired the Southwest a century and a half ago in three ways: part by the 1845 annexation agreement with Texas, which was then an independent republic, part ceded by Mexico in the 1848 Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo after the Mexican-American War, and part by the 1852 Gadsden Purchase.

Mexico's claim to the Southwest originated with the 1494 Treaty of Tordesillas, which drew an imaginary line on the map to divide the Western Hemisphere between Spain and Portugal. Because geography had so many unknowns at that time, Portugal got only Brazil (which is why Brazilians speak Portuguese).

Other countries never recognized this treaty, and Americans consider it ridiculous even to talk about giving the Southwest to Mexico. Most national borders all over the world have come about as the result of war.

Mexicans obviously have no thought of invading the Southwest with troops, so their hope is reconquista by migration, both legal and illegal. According to Mario Obledo, founder of the Mexican American Legal Defense & Education Fund, "California is going to be a Hispanic state and anyone who doesn't like it should leave."

Vicente Fox presented Mexico's Congress with a five-year development plan to eliminate the U.S.-Mexican border. He said he plans to serve "the 100 million Mexicans who now live in Mexico and the more than 18 million who live abroad," and to "strengthen our ability to protect and defend the rights of all Mexicans abroad."

Juan Hernandez, appointed by Fox as special liaison to Mexicans abroad, lobbies to get U.S. driver's licenses issued to illegal aliens and defends the Mexican government's issuance of desert survival kits to those sneaking across the border. On ABC's Nightline on June 7, he boasted: "We are betting that the Mexican-American population in the United States ... will think Mexico first."

Fox's five-year plan calls for building a larger consular presence in the United States, and this is already in operation. In U.S. areas with large Hispanic (including illegal) populations, the Mexican consul donates to the local public schools the same textbooks that are used in every elementary school in Mexico, grades 1 through 6.

The books, written in Spanish and including all academic subjects, teach that America "stole" the southwest from Mexico and that Mexico is entitled to take it back. The Mexican government considers these textbooks a symbol of Mexican national pride, guarantees a set to every Mexican child, and makes it a crime for anyone to sell them.

The only reason we learned about this Mexican plan is that one school in Santa Ana, California, decided to sell the books at a book fair and the local Hispanics kicked up a fuss about it. The school apologized to the Hispanics for selling the books, but should have apologized to the students for accepting the books in the first place.

The question we should ask our Mexican immigrant friends is, are you assimilating or invading?

skilled? ? ( P )? Pronunciation Key? (skld) adj.


1.? Having or showing skill; expert. See Synonyms at proficient.
2.? Requiring specialized ability or training: a skilled trade.

Lighten up, I was just making a joke.

Jeesh.

Ya gotta admit, though, SLC.....

It was a pretty funny burn.

Yea it was.

But I wasn't giving the guy shit, only joking.

So.........

Thanks Pilferk.. My one good post on this site. I should leave now "Thank you, try the fish"

I was only joking as well with the comeback. As for the initial post about Pat's, I was only trying to shed some lite on the other guys post that there is an actual debate about Pat's/Geno's. It'd be like a foreigner from Europe not knowing about the Yankees/Red Sox rivalry, or how everyone hates the Cowboys, or how an American doesn't know Manchester United doesn't like.... eh... er... ahh screw it, I'm American, I don't know anything about soccer.

The soccer quote alone in the above post qualifies it as your second good post (assuming, of course, as you say above you only have one good one on the site).

 :rofl:

Edit: Oh, and on a somewhat different note, I have a friend, Mark, who every month or so hops a commuter jet to Philly in the morning, loads up on Pats cheesesteaks, and comes back that afternoon.? I've been told the smell on the plane has, on more than one occasion, almost caused those sandwiches to be "appropriated" by the flight crew (and, I'm sure, a few passengers).

I'll never forget he was going to make the trip before one of the Yankees/Mets World Series games, and he was carting back sandwhiches for a party at my place to watch the game.? He had called around to all the guys coming to get their "preferences".? One of the guys asked him if it wouldn't be too much trouble to walk across the street and get him a Gino's cheesesteak.? Mark hung up on him, refused to return the guys repeated calls back, and ended up getting the guy nothing at all.? You shoulda seen the look the guy gave Mark at the party.....and Mark calmly explained to the guy exactly what "the big deal" was.? It almost came to blows by the 3rd inning.

So, yeah....I can see the whole Pats vs Geno's thing.

That being said, I've had both...I prefer Pats, too, but like 'em both.? Sacrelidge, I know.

my buddy used to live a block away from pat's and geno's. there was a summer where i averaged about 7-8 cheesesteaks a week. we'd end every night out with 2 cheesesteaks, one from each.

personally, i don't think there's much of a difference between the two.

but for the record, there are a few better cheesesteaks to be had in philly, especially these two:

1. Steve's
2. Tony Luke's

what happens if someone is actually a foreigner who doesnt speak english?

i guess they go to pat's.

I think he's fully entitled to expect people to speak to him in English - in an English speaking contry

I'm sick to death of dealing with people everyday who speak a handful of English words,

If i lived in a non english speaking country i'd learn the language, and have learning the language as my primary concern upon intial arrival - for that matter i'd also respect the customs and traditions of the new country....

What's the problem?? Did you fully read the post? I understand your "supply and demand" argument, but this goes way beyond that. Have you been to California lately? I hope you are going to the GNR show in September. I'll show you how California is now becoming Mexico. If you haven't been to Cali in awhile, you will be shocked.

did  u read the article that i posted above? your very right.

The nerve of the guy! Imagine him actually asking to be spoken to in English, in America. ::)

I agree...when I travel to different countries, I dont expect people to know english...English is the national language...not spanish...

did anyone read the article i posted?

Yeah I did. I've read similar articles over the past few months. Most people just dont care. They'll only care when its too late to do anything.

what i'm not understanding is why would making English the offical language be racist? (i saw that comment made earlier in the thread).  Thats just fucking ridiculous.  We speak English here.  I'm not going to move to France and expect them to all make English their second offical language, and i'm certianly not going to fucking Mexico to live(maybe to party) and expect them to all speak English for me and teach English in all the classrooms and all the nonsense these people are in this part of the country demanding.

Its not racist. The liberals and the mexicans just want people to think its racist.

soon english speaking will be a minority

See, it really doesn't go beyond the supply and demand argument, though.? At least your post doesn't. Your point is "Is that the kind of America you want to live in".? My point is, it's exactly the type of America you want to live in, and have always lived in.? It's a capitalistic, supply and demand society.

Paramount sees a demand and then supplies the goods.

And again, I don't see a problem with that.

Ditto with the billboard companies.

I'm guessing YOUR real point is that you feel your state is being overrun by people not of your race.? Again, I say: So what? As long as they're legal, that is.? America has always been a cultural melting pot.? Hell....look at the food we consume every day.? What many think of as favorite or comfort foods?? Irish, Italian, Polish, French and English cuisine brought over by immigrants.

If they're illegals then yes, it's an issue. One we've been dealing with for quite some time, but is coming to the forefront of public conciousness of late.? But that's a completely seperate issue than Paramount Parks catering to what they see as an untapped or unserviced market.

 Because there are a number of LEGAL immigrants, and legal immigrant decendants, too.? So when you point to a business who is catering to demand, I find it puzzling.? Because it doesn't have much to do with the discussion at hand.

Edit: No, won't be coming out to Cali for the show in September.? Wish I could.? My wife is due with our 3rd child the last week in September, so I'll be sticking close to home.. :)

Why the fuck should people have to speak Spanish in their own country, why should they have to bend their backs for people who can't be arsed to learn English

Where do you live in California, Garry and James, if you don't mind?

So LA is LA? There are no burroughs or districts? All neighborhoods are "bad"?

That section of the country speaks Spanish. Like it or not, it is a fact and you can not change it at this point. So.......if you tried it in Miami, it would not fly. It is just part of the culture down there.

I am in Modesto. Meth capital of the world, home of the wines Nighttrain and Thunderbird, and former home of Scott and Lacie Peterson and Chandra Levy. Great things to be famous for, huh? :rofl:

Man you act like they are out to get you or something...........

You can always move down to Florida and hang out with the Cubans........

Or.......

Idaho and Utah are pretty white states.

Their racial breakdown:

White

Lilly White

And

Transparent.

You'd love it there. Well, until the lilly white people began to creep into your hood........

Your choices are limited pal.

Florida is gonna be too "tan" for you.

Beggers can't be chosers dude.

Looks like a lilly white Utah or Idaho in your future. It's ok, you can stop by my house and ask for a cup of sugar. We can sit on the porch and talk about the good old days without gay people and Mexicans.

No, actually I'm being QUITE reasonable.? You, on the other hand...not so much.

There is a fundamental difference between being concerned about illegal immigration and being concerned that a business is catering to a clientele they see as unserviced or underserviced.

There is also a fundamental differenece between being concerned about illegal immigration and outright racism (something SLC is, I think, subtley trying to point out to you).

MANY of the things you're describing are exactly the types of issues that were dealt with, with legal immigrants, back during the early 1900's...when we trully were becoming a cultural melting pot.? And, like it or not, LA and California are becoming the equivalent to 1900's NYC. And to assume that what you're seeing is COMPLETELY because of illegal immigrants just isn't the complete truth.  There are plenty of LEGAL immigrants in California, and their naturalized decendants, and THAT population is booming as well.

 Does something need to be done about illegal immigration? Yes, not because the majority of them are Mexicans, but because our system can't handle the influx of people looking for benefits from it that are not naturalized citizens.? Because our infrastructure simply can't handle the increase in total population.? Because our economy might not be able to support the influx of population. But, in the grand scheme of things, that has NOTHING to do with the illegal immigrants country of origins.? They could all be lily white Australians and we'd have some of the same sorts of issues.? You need to get a handle on the real issues and leave the color or nationality thing behind.

If i owned the resurant and people came in and couldnt speak english they wouldnt get served unless they can order and i can understand what the hell they want. If they want to speak thier own language go back to were they come from. Im not going to hire linguists to sell fucking balogna sandwiches.

So, um...what if they're deaf?

Or mute?

Or physically disabled with something like CP that prevents them from speaking clearly or writing?

Gonna turn them away, too?

If you owned a business, chance are you'd do what it takes to cater to those who frequent your establishment.? You'd want their money and their continued patronage.  And that doesn't mean you have to learn to "speak their language", be it sign language, Spanish, or whatever.

A couple of "picture" menus that can be pointed to work wonders....

Why should they want to adopt "your way of life"? (if there's such thing that's valid for even over half Americans)

Who built America anyway? Why do you speak English (God Save The Queen!) instead of what the original people living there used to speak?

If people are  moving to another country they need to make an effort atleast

It's funny. I was just reading about this in the school library yesterday.

It's not the logic behind this that's really bad, it's the blunt execution of it. I do agree though, if you want to get by in American, speak at least passable. You need to speak at least SOME basic english enough to order a cheesesteak.

The liberals dont think so. They wont be happy until we all have to order our Philly Cheesesteaks in spanish.

Oh stop it........

Not happy yet? :hihi:

Ok my take as I do work in a restaurant and have dealth with deaf people and blind and those who dont speak english.

I have a little trick it called assimilating :
1 a : to take in and appropriate as nourishment : absorb into the system b : to take into the mind and thoroughly comprehend
2 a : to make similar b : to alter by assimilation c : to absorb into the culture or mores of a population or group.


Beit blind , deaf or dumb, I find ways to interact with people since its what I do, beit creed , color skin secual or other, foriegn or native, and since Im no authority on anythign really, I just do what comews natuaral, and NYC is the melting pot of the world.

But on the other hand I know and see the abuse and get pised off by illegals who use my (our) govt resources, and my govt flips the bills for heathcare, prenatal care and countless others,  for wome who come here to ahve thier babies, who offspring are now US citizens, and are offorded more than your average middle american working citizen, that I have a fuckng problem with. REFORM yes its needed . BUT all I hope is that the govt, (and I am not a fan of this admin by along shot), does the right thing.

Yes here in the US ,I agree english should be the common, my ancestors from italy who came here forbade thier children from talking thier native toungue, because they were proud to be in a free country(hense my lack of knowledge in the launguages, of my past). They wanted thier children to know the launguage of the country they so looked to and were offorded freedoms they never had. I think its time to go back to that kind of thinking!

I'm a democrat and I hate all this shit.... But I'm not left or right either...

There's just a sence of pride moving to start a new life in another country and learning to speak what most people there do..

I hate whoever has been here for a decade or better and makes no effort to learn to speak any english...

I agree, and before people start bashing America, don't the French hate tourists who cannot speak French. Well I imagine most countries would be that way if they were inundated with refugees. At first "Oh how cute, they speak English" then after millions of us moved in "Hey get these fuckers out of here!!".

Funny, English is a desired language to master in countries like Poland, Russia, China and India. And here in America, people are telling us WE should learn Spanish.

they cant hear anyways so if i speak swahili they wont fucking know.

they wont be speaking will they? any language except grunts, gurgles, spits and whistles...


they most likely will have a caretaker with them since they probobly didnt drive to my place to order thier sandwich... and if they dont well then i dont know what to tell them since i wont understand anyone who doesnt speak clearly english or spansih or any other shit.

nope coz anyone like that wont be alone.... they can sit in the corner and drool all day just as long as they have someone who can tell me what the fuck they want to order for them.

your very right.. and i wont....


yep that would work....

Its the same in England.

Only our government are a bunch of pussies. They are so afraid of "insulting" people of other religions/cultures, that shops can't put up Christmas decorations, or even write the word "Christmas"... they have to shorten it to "Xmas". ::)

And get this! I'm not religious, and I have always preferred fun Christmas cards to religious ones, but now, we're not even allowed to have religious Christmas cards!

Why you ask? Because our government don't want to "insult" other religions and cultures. PATHETIC!!

I went to Abu Dhabi on vacation last October, and it happened to be Ramadan. We had to respect their culture and refrain from eating outside in front of all those who were waiting for the evening. If we wanted to eat we had to go to the restaurant or the hotel room. And that's fine! I wasn't insulted!

Its just polite to respect the culture of the country you are in. The country should not have to change its culture to fit immigrants!

Let me tell you now, if it was up to me, I would make all immigrants coming to live in the country take and pass English classes and exams before they were deemed legal.


.... and now everyone's gunna jump on me with pitchforks and start yelling "RACIST! RACIST!"

What-fucking-ever.

If wanting my country's language to remain English and people living in it to be able to SPEAK English makes me a racist, then I'm a racist.

::)

not me.. your not racist.. you just want it to be fair... im with you 10000 percent.. the only people who will claim ur a racist are the ones who want to benifit from a double standard or just want to be a devils advicate.

Thanks Kockstar! :)

Your points are made very well SkynyrdGirl.

true sg, fucking babies, usa  is so politically correct..

God forbid you say the wrong terminology.. Can't call fat people fat, big boned or calorically challenged..

If you have a fight with someone who is of a different race and you throw in a slang word it's a "hate crime" :crying:

Yea, when in actual fact, the entire "political correctness" issue is a hate crime!!

Very true. They can call you a honkey, cracker,etc. and everyone thinks its the coolest thing ever. It makes me sick. The reverse racism is quickly ruining this country.

Wow...This article is awsome...I totally agree weith this guy, we should not have to adapt to immigrants ,they should have to adapt to us, it should be the same way if we want to go to there country, we should have to adapt to them

"Ruining the country?"  Don't you think you're exaggerating just a bit?  Not to start a diff debate, but I can think of MANY other things that are ruining the country a lot faster then the example you gave.  Basically anything Bush and co. have done in the last 6 years.

The scenario you described is BS for sure, but I don't think its going to spell the end of the US anytime soon.

I disagree to some extent, like Pilferk was saying, its all about supply and demand.  If you go to a foreign country that relies heavily on english speaking tourists to drive their economy, the locals HAVE to learn english or they will not be able to do business with the tourists and thus, will lose money.  They are adapting to the foreign presence.

Same here in the US.  If I were to go into an old school Polish neighborhood here in NYC and start a business, the least I could do is learn a little bit of polish to help make a transaction.

Like Jayzme said though, being in NYC, different languages and cultures are seen/heard everyday here - so its no biggie to us.  I'm not sure what its like in CA so I really can't comment on it

I say to some extent though, b/c everytime I do go to a foreign country, I always try to learn basic words like "please, thank you, how much, etc....".

As for the whole immigration debate, I'm on the fence - I think part of it is racist, I think part of it is a little too "to the left", I think full amnesty isn't fair - anyone living here illegally should be paying back taxes, but a full deportation of all illegals is just retarded (and impossible).

I think some of it is politically driven.  Call me a jaded democrat, but when did this become an issue really?  I doubt the illegal immigrant population has suddenly exploded the past year or two right?  This has been going on for decades no?  I see this as the new "gay rights" issue that the Reps are drumming up (creating an issue instead of focusing on the REAL issues) to gain support in the upcoming elections and for 2008.

Most of all, I don't think anyone in this country has the right to tell someone else what language they need to learn or you can't come in here without passing a test.  That didn't happen before, why should it start happening now?  I imagine the vast majority of immigrants from mexico aren't sitting on their asses collecting welfare, they are looking for work (that most americans wouldn't do) to send home to their families or to save so they can go back to their country with some money.

This is America afterall.  The land of opportunity.  If you start doing things like that it will only become more and more rules and regulations.  And this isnt' "liberal paranoia" its the truth.  you give an inch, you will lose a yard.  Freedom isn't shades of gray its black and white

Yea Garry I always say Merry Christmas as well! ONCE, someone came up to me after I'd said it, and said "Oh, aren't you worried about offending anyone?"

WORRIED ABOUT OFFENDING ANYONE!!!? WHAT THE FUCKING HELL!!? JUST by saying "Merry Christmas". THAT is not going to offend the most fanatic people of other religions!

Gaaaaah!!

And I'm sick of seeing signs like "Buy your Xmas trees here". I want to see in big red and green writing "Buy your Christmas trees HERE!"

I'm really thinking of getting a petition started up to end this awful political correctness that IS in fact ruining what we like best about our countries!!

I'm pretty sure that if something is not done now, in four years time, at the next World Cup, England supporters will not be able to hang an England flag out of their window, or even SAY "Come on England!"

It is going much too far!!

And not just in this way either!

I read in the paper a while ago that a tree in a schoolyard (it had been there for at least two hundred years) was cut down to prevent children climbing on it and endangering themselves...

Real reason it was cut down: Because teachers are so fucking scared of getting sued by over zealous parents!

Even trained nurses who work at schools aren't even allowed to put plasters on children's cuts!! They have to call up the parent, get the parent to come into school, and have the parent put the plaster on!!

HOW FUCKING RIDICULOUS IS THAT!!

Jeebus fucking Christ what has the fucking world come to!!?

And Garry, what I hate MOST about living in England is the fact that however bad it is here, however SHIT, a lot of people still find it necessary to slag off America.

It pisses me off!! I'd choose America over England to live in ANY day! L.A. or N.Y. preferably!

And if the petitions ain't workin', CALL FOR A BOYCOTT of those whorporations!

Sg nyc is waiting ;)

Hehe! Well in about 3 or 4 years I'll totally be moving across the pond!

Gotta get my degree first though! :smoking:

actually, this guy is not just pandering to the large majority of his customers. there are plenty of non-english speaking people in philly. and LOTS of foreigners in philly that will be offended by this.

this guy just doesn't care. he believes in what he is saying and he is willing to stand behind it. he's taking a risk of losing business. and taking a huge risk that some special interest groups will make sure he loses business.

this is a ballzy move.

this story finally made national headlines. and people are pissed.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060608/ap_on_re_us/english_only_cheesesteaks;_ylt=AsdZxeNamYYLei.Lw8lsU8IDW7oF;_ylu=X3oDMTBhZDhxNDFzBHNlYwNtZW5ld3M-


PHILADELPHIA - Bistec con queso? Not at Geno's Steaks.
 
An English-only ordering policy has thrust one of Philadelphia's best-known cheesesteak joints into the national immigration debate.

Situated in a South Philadelphia immigrant neighborhood, Geno's ? which together with its chief rival, Pat's King of Steaks, forms the epicenter of an area described as "ground zero for cheesesteaks" ? has posted small signs telling customers, "This Is AMERICA: WHEN ORDERING `SPEAK ENGLISH.'"

"They don't know how lucky they are. All we're asking them to do is learn the English language," said Geno's owner Joseph Vento, 66. "We're out to help these people, but they've got to help themselves, too."

Vento, whose grandparents struggled to learn English after immigrating from Sicily in the 1920s, said he posted the sign about six months ago amid concerns over immigration reform and the increasing number of customers who could not order in English when they wanted Philly's gooey, greasy specialty ? fried steak, sliced or chopped, in a long roll, with cheese and fried onions.

Of course, it's not as if native Philadelphians speak the King's English either. A Philadelphian might order a cheesesteak by saying something like, "Yo, gimme a cheesesteak wit, will youse?" ("Wit," or "with," means with fried onions.) To which the counterman might reply: "Youse want fries widdat?"

The traditionally Italian community near Geno's has become more diverse over the decades. Immigrants from Asia and Latin America have moved in, joining longtime residents and young professionals seeking reasonably priced rowhouses. In the past 10 years, an estimated 15,000 to 20,000 Mexican immigrants ? many of them here illegally, community leaders say ? have settled in South Philly.

Vento said his staff is glad to help non-native speakers order in English and has never turned someone away because of a language barrier.

But the policy has "really upset a lot of a people," said Brad Baldia of Day Without An Immigrant, a coalition of immigrant groups. "For some people, I think we're just going to say, `Le gusta Pat's.'"

Juntos, a Hispanic neighborhood organization, said it plans to send people to Geno's to try to order in Spanish and may pursue court action, depending on what happens.

"His grandparents encountered the same racism and the same xenophobia," said Peter Bloom, the group's director. "Why would he begin that process over again?"

Vento said he has gotten plenty of criticism and threats. One person told him they hoped one his many neon signs flames out and burns the place down, he said. But he said he plans to hold his ground.

Customers placing orders on a recent morning seemed unfazed.

Angelica Marquez, 22 and originally from Puerto Rico, ordered in well-spoken English, but said some of her relatives struggle with the language. "They always come and just say `cheesesteak,'" Marquez said, adding that the policy "bothers her some" but not enough to keep her away.

When a non-English speaking customer showed up at the window a short time later, a clerk patiently coached him through the process. Eventually, both said "cheesesteak."

Vento, a short, fiery man with a ninth-grade education, arms covered in tattoos and a large diamond ring in his ear, also sells "freedom fries" to protest France's opposition to the Iraq war. He rails against Mumia Abu-Jamal, the black man who was convicted of killing police Officer Daniel Faulkner in 1981 and has become a cause celebre among some death penalty opponents. Memorials to Faulkner are posted at his shop.

Those who market the city, often using images of Geno's and other famous steak shops, are watching with concern.

"I certainly wouldn't want a national audience to think it represented all of the wonderful cheesesteak makers in the whole city," said Meryl Levitz, president and chief executive of the Greater Philadelphia Tourism Marketing Corp. "This isn't representative of the Philadelphia attitude."

Competitors are seizing on the controversy.

Tony Luke's issued a statement saying it welcomes all customers "whether or not they speak a `wit' of English."

And a manager at Pat's, Kathy Smith, said of Geno's English-only policy: "That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life. I'd rather listen to the Spanish than the foul language of the college students."

This is a difficult issue. I kinda side with the guy from Geno's, but I think he's taking it a bit too far. I don't think there is anything wrong with expecting someone to order in English at a restaurant in a primarily English speaking country, but this dude is being a little bit of a jerk about it. Also, Philly is a major city and no one in their right mind should expect a major city to be unilingual. However if I moved to France I wouldn't expect everyone to cater to me because I didn't speak French. Quite the opposite. I would learn French so that I could function in society.
              This issue really isn't about immigration at all. I don't see why it's intertwined with this, but let me just say that you're rather foolish if you are against immigration and want to deport all the illegals. First, our economy would completely collapse (I'm no economist but that's what I hear and it makes sense). And second, are we forgetting how against immigration this country used to be. Anyone here of Irish descent would not be here today if the crazies back in the day had their way. We Irish were once considered foreigners to the natives (who weren't native at all, just in the country a little earlier than the Irish and Chinese).

I don't know that he's really 'being a jerk about it'. I mean, he probably sees alot of the same people week after week. And it's not like it's a "Restaurant" This place sells cheesesteaks, sometimes with onions, maybe an occasional chicken cheesesteak, and cheesefries now & then. It's not like he's demanding they pass an English test, he just would expect they learn to say the fuckin' word "Cheesesteak" after going there a few months.

Well this is about as implicitly racist as you can get...

Do you know that these performers arent Americans?

As for this ridiculous Pats policy, thats his prerogative I suppose.  He serves "Freedom fries," what do you expect?  Numb-skulled nationalism is really easy for some people to identify with and its one of my least favorite aspects of this country. 

I've gone back and re-read the original article and I take back what I said about him being a jerk. Some of the other people interviewed in the article are harsh about non-English speakers and the stuff about immigration in the 19th centruy is harsh, but he never says anything that should warrant me calling him a jerk. He is best quote is ""If you can't tell me what you want, I can't serve you," he said. "It's up to you. If you can't read, if you can't say the word cheese, how can I communicate with you - and why should I have to bend?" " A reasonable complaint in my opinion and I should have been more careful.
           That being said, he does serve "freedom fries" which automatically makes him a douchebag. Not a jerk, but a douchebag.

::) Here's the deal. Its in California. Alot of us who have lived here our whole lives speak english. When going out for entertainment, you assume it will be of english speaking variety. If I go to Great America now, it is like walking into Tijuana. The minute you walk into the park, you will have mexican music pounding away at your eardrums during your whole visit there. Doesn't matter whether you are in the section where the concert is at, or you are on a roller coaster, or eating a plate of nachos. That shit is being shoved down our throats. If that's racist, then so be it. If it sounds like fun to you, go to their website and purchase a few season passes.

Ill take that as a "no."  So essentially, you assume these Hispanic bands arent Americans when really you have no idea. 

See thats how fucking smart the mexicans are... A guy puts up a sign in his OWN resturant .. basicly if you cant speak english dont come here to my place
and the mexicans hear about it and want to go there just to fuck with him...

i esp like the part where they might pursue court action... wow they sure would love to use the american legal system to make some free money off a hard working guy with his own buisness but they didnt give two shits about the legal system when they came here or went to the guys restraunt to fuck with they guy... maybe they can make some free money and spend their days sitting in the hammock drinking corona's eating tacos and taking a siesta...

fuck if they are here just to fuck with shit go back to mexico or where ever they are from and fuck with thier own people.. not a hard working man who wants to set a rule in his own shop if you dont like his rule dont go there.. simple.. i dont like dress codes but im not gonna show up at a suit and tie joint wearing a basketball jersey either....  fucking mexicans are so fucking stupid.

fucking beaners.

btw im not a racist so dont label me as one you fucking drama queens on this board... i hate everyone...

Who said anything about Mexicans?

do mexicans speak spanish? "hispanic neighborhood orginization".... in plain english... Mexicans

Actually hispanic doesn't mean Mexicans.

Anyway, if you're concerned that "poor Geno" will lose money in court then maybe it's the American law that you should be complaining about? They should add something about being ok to be racist there don't you think...

actually in this case it does.. stop trying to split hairs and show how smart you are that hispanic doesnt mean mexicans.. how about if i change my post to "beaners"

im not concerned.. i dont give a shit.. i dont have to complain about the american law im complainng about those who are abusing it...


wtf are you talking about... stupid

At what point did I say the mexican band was illegal immigrants? Please point that out. You are trying to twist it into something else. I'm an american. When I go to an american establishment, I want to hear english being spoken, not spanish. Let them build a Great America in Tijuana if they want to hear that shit.

everything will soon be solved we have cameras at the hopping spot :hihi:

 :confused:

Heres what I said:


Heres what led me to make that statement:

Oh Cmon Booker!! You knew what I meant when I said that.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13272368/

Philly officials eye eatery?s English-only sign
City agency expected to file complaint against cheesesteak owner?s effort

PHILADELPHIA - City officials are expected to file a complaint Monday against an English-only ordering policy at Geno?s Steaks, one of Philadelphia?s best-known cheesesteak joints that has entered the national immigration debate.

Situated in a South Philadelphia immigrant neighborhood, Geno?s has posted small signs telling customers, ?This Is AMERICA: WHEN ORDERING ?SPEAK ENGLISH.??

?We?re alleging that the sign itself is enough of an unwelcoming message that it may violate the Fair Practices Act,? Rachel Lawton, acting executive director of the Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations, told the Philadelphia Inquirer.

Owner Joseph Vento, 66, whose grandparents struggled to learn English after immigrating from Sicily in the 1920s, said he posted the sign about six months ago amid concerns over immigration reform and the increasing number of customers who could not order in English when they wanted Philly?s gooey, greasy specialty ? fried steak, sliced or chopped, in a long roll, with cheese and fried onions.

?They don?t know how lucky they are. All we?re asking them to do is learn the English language,? said Vento. ?We?re out to help these people, but they?ve got to help themselves, too.?

Diverse community
The traditionally Italian community near Geno?s has become more diverse over the decades. Immigrants from Asia and Latin America have moved in, joining longtime residents and young professionals seeking reasonably priced rowhouses. In the past 10 years, an estimated 15,000 to 20,000 Mexican immigrants ? many of them here illegally, community leaders say ? have settled in South Philly.

Vento said his staff is glad to help non-native speakers order in English and has never turned someone away because of a language barrier.

The Inquirer also quoted Mary Catherine Roper, a spokeswoman for the American Civil Liberties Union, who said Geno?s ?has a right to express its opinion, however offensive. ... But there are specific limitations on places of public accommodation, because they are supposed to be available to everyone.?

A city councilman quoted in the paper said the signs were ?divisive and mean-spirited.?

Cheesesteaks and ?freedom fries?
When a non-English speaking customer showed up at the window a short time later, a clerk patiently coached him through the process. Eventually, both said ?cheesesteak.?

Vento, a short, fiery man with a ninth-grade education, arms covered in tattoos and a large diamond ring in his ear, also sells ?freedom fries? to protest France?s opposition to the Iraq war. He rails against Mumia Abu-Jamal, the black man who was convicted of killing police Officer Daniel Faulkner in 1981 and has become a cause celebre among some death penalty opponents. Memorials to Faulkner are posted at his shop.

Vento said he has gotten plenty of criticism and threats. One person told him they hoped one his many neon signs flames out and burns the place down, he said. But he said he plans to hold his ground.

Competitors are seizing on the controversy.

Tony Luke?s issued a statement saying it welcomes all customers ?whether or not they speak a ?wit? of English.?

And a manager at Pat?s, Kathy Smith, said of Geno?s English-only policy: ?That?s the most ridiculous thing I?ve ever heard in my life. I?d rather listen to the Spanish than the foul language of the college students.?

Reverse racism bullshit. I hope that guy doesn't cave under pressure. If they refuse to learn english. go look for a cheesesteak in mexico or asia.

Or the place on the other side of the street.

i went to Geno's on sunday at 10:45 in the morning and it was packed with people.

and yesterday Geno's ran out of rolls due to a major increase in business. they told people to go across the street to Pat's.

i don't believe the formal complaint has a leg to stand on. there's no evidence to suggest that Geno's has denied service to anyone due to them not speaking english.   

it's just a sign. people are too sensitive. 

On that, we agree.

I think the city, and any other governemnt agency, should keep their nose out of it.? It's his business...let him run it as he pleases. Either the negative publicity will hurt his business, and he'll have to make a change, or it won't.? In either case, there is a place right across the street that WILL accomodate people, so it's not like there's much of a "denial of service" claim to be made.

I don't agree with Geno's position.? But I do think he has the right to adopt it.

Joey Vento is a man of many parts

By Michael Currie Schaffer
Inquirer Staff Writer

Wanna know what Joey Vento doesn't like? Whiners, that's what.

The whiners who got corporal punishment taken out of schools. The whiners who call him a racist because there's a rebel flag tattoo on his forearm. The whiners who turn every last thing that happens in this country into a potential lawsuit.

Go ahead - ask him what he thinks. Everyone else is.

"I grew up where they called me every name in the book: Wop! Dago! Guinea! Midget! But come on! You've got to roll with the punches," says Vento, the 5-foot-5, 66-year-old impresario of Geno's Steaks. "My attitude is, if you're 6-foot-6, I'm 6-foot-7."

It's breakfast time on a sunny Thursday morning, two weeks into the media circus outside Vento's legendary South Philly sandwich shop. In the gleaming kitchen, Vento has just turned on Kate Smith singing "God Bless America," as staffers and cousins and friends mill about.

A clutch of television cameras is waiting outside. They'll have to wait a bit longer: Vento's monologue is in full swing.

"Guess what? Sticks and stones! These days, there's no humor. Everyone sues. They walk into a pole, they sue you! Way back when, we'd say, 'Look at you, you dumb son of a bitch! You walked into a pole!' And that would be it. No one would say, 'Oooh, I've got a lawyer.' "

Of course, the TV guys aren't waiting to hear what Vento thinks about litigation, or education, or the Confederacy. They've descended on Philadelphia's most famous culinary corner to talk about the postcard-size sign in Geno's window, the one advising patrons: This is America. When ordering please speak English.

Somehow, the sign has become a laminated cardboard battlefield in the culture wars.

As far as Vento is concerned, the only people upset about that sign are an especially whiny class of whiners: The immigrants - or, more often, their self-appointed advocates - who, he is convinced, don't want to force newcomers to learn English.

In fact, the only formal complaint about the sign came not from an immigrant group but from the independent city Human Relations Commission. The Pennsylvania Human Relations Commission on Friday added its support.

Wherever it's from, though, Vento doesn't like that attitude one bit.

He's spent most of June talking about it, an experience that has left him hoarse, excited, and deeply suspicious of the media folks he says have turned him into a caricature.

"Sometimes, I'll be honest with you, you get frustrated. You get forced to say something. It's always 'they're right, we're wrong.' "

Friends say Vento is a bit more complicated than all that.

The man cast as the Neanderthal of Ninth and Wharton is the same guy who last summer forked over $100,000 to support an Elton John AIDS-awareness concert - a donation that Philadelphia Gay News publisher Mark Segal says was "the tip of the iceberg."

"They had been very touched by the issue and are very involved," Segal says of Vento's family. "They have been extremely supportive of the entire community."

Like most stories, Joe Vento's is one of contradictions.

He's the son and the brother of violent criminals. But he's raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for police charities. He's a wisecracking everyman from the streets of South Philly. But he lives on a 13-acre Camden County spread with a stable for horses. He's made more than enough to retire to a sunny golf course. But he still pulls a daily 4 a.m. to 11 a.m. shift at a neon-lit sandwich shop.

And he insists he wants to save immigrants from dead-end jobs in linguistic ghettos. But he has a way of saying things - with constant references to "these people" - that makes a lot of those people somewhat queasy.

Ironically, when protesters raise those concerns - or contradict his assertions - Vento himself can sound a bit, well, whiny.

"Look, I don't want to speak Spanish, OK?" he says. "That's my right."

Ask Vento about the world, and the conversation has a way of circling back to the South Philadelphia of his youth.

The grandson of Italian immigrants, Vento was a hellion of a kid, bouncing through several schools and dropping out of ninth grade. He spent time working for his father, a small-time restaurateur whose steak shop lay across the street from where Geno's now stands.

The pair clashed over how to run the business, Jim's Steaks.

"I would tell him how to beat the guy across the street," Vento says. That would be Pat's Steaks, whose name Vento can't bring himself to say.

"In those days, in the Italian way, it was about discipline, about getting smacked," Vento says.

Vento, naturally, says he didn't go whining about it. Instead, in 1957, for the only time in his life, Vento moved away from the area. He joined the Army and was posted in Hawaii.

"Drinks were $3.50 there," he recalls. "We only made $58 a month! You couldn't do anything - it was just sitting in the barracks." His future wife, Eileen, wrote him every day.

The sitting around came to an end 14 months later, when Vento's father, James "Jimmy Steaks" Vento, was convicted of contracting a murder.

The elder Vento arranged the death of numbers writer Frank Angella, 38. Angella had crossed him by not following through after being hired to kill another man, Joseph Petruzzi. Petruzzi, the initial target, had committed the sin of squealing that Jim's sold horse meat.

The son got a hardship discharge, he says, and headed home to help the business.

Jim's didn't make it. But in 1966, the same year his father died in prison, Vento started his own shop with a $2,000 loan from his father-in-law. Because another store was already named Joe's, he chose the name Geno's. He named his son, born in 1971, after the restaurant.

Steaks cost 45 cents apiece at the time. But Vento had a knack for business: "If they put three pieces of meat in there, I put five," he says. "I never took a backward step."

Pretty soon, business was very good.

Vento says the success has erased the stain of his father and his late brother, Steven "Steakie" Vento, a convicted drug trafficker and mob associate.

"My family history wasn't that great," Vento says. "But I reversed it. I brought the respect back. My father and my brother are laughing now - they're so proud of what I did."

Over the years, Vento has poured his fortune back into the community - donating to charities that include autism, fallen firefighters, scholarships, and random unfortunates that he reads about in the press.

"I have to get him to stop reading the paper," says Diana Vergagni, Geno's bookkeeper and Vento's sister-in-law.

After 9/11, he says, he held a 76-hour fund-raising marathon, taking in $120,000.

Last winter, says the Rev. Gary Pacitti, pastor of Annunciation of the Blessed Virgin Mary Church and School, three blocks from Geno's, he got a call from Vento after his school's snowplow had been swiped. Vento offered to buy a new one. Which wouldn't be unusual, but for one fact:

"We threw him out of the school," Pacitti says. "He was expelled years ago. And he has given thousands of dollars over the years. And as far as the race thing goes, go into our school: It's Spanish kids, Asian kids, black kids, everything."

Indeed, Pacitti is even thinking of adding Spanish-language Masses at the church.

Still, even Vento's charitable activities don't quite steer clear of the live wire. For instance, there are the thousands he has spent to honor the memory of Police Officer Daniel Faulkner, slain in 1981. Mumia Abu-Jamal was convicted of the murder.

The case is one of Philadelphia's racial and political fault lines. But Vento has danced all over it, outfitting staffers in shirts that say Abu-Jamal belongs "six feet closer to hell."

"I don't care," Vento says. "He's a cop-killer."

Ditto Vento's own recreational pursuits. At age 57, he took up motorcycling. On the face of it, it's an unobjectionable pastime. But the gleaming Harley-Davidsons he keeps across the street from Geno's are festooned with Confederate flags.

Another rebel flag sits alongside the panther, snake and tiger he's had tattooed on his arms since he started biking.

Vento says it's an homage to Johnny Yuma, a TV cowboy of his youth. The only people offended by its racial symbolism, he says, are those who want to be.

"Aw, come on," he says. "It was a cowboy show! It's not what they think. Plus, when you're a biker, you're a rebel."

Anyone who doesn't like it, in other words, should quit whining.

"I say things that offend people - what are you going to do?" Vento says. "I still sleep like a baby."

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/14842951.htm

 :hihi:

A rebel flag tattoo on his arm...

Apparently he has no problems whining about people who dont speak English, or the French, or Mumia Abu Jamal, etc.  Its only "whining" when its an opinion adverse to your own, a point the writer almost makes in the article.

are you actually implying that honoring a police officer killed in the line of duty is "whining"??????

Way to go for this guy. Listen, here's the thing....I'd say, oh 99.9% of the people who work at this steakhouse will speak English as a primary language. Maybe, a geneorus 3% will be fluent in another language.......so, that means, yes you will have to order in English...sorry immigrants, thems the breaks. You come to the country, you'd better be prepared to speak the language of that country, it's not up to the other 300 million to learn to speak yours to serve you....don't like it? Stay at home or go to a place that can understand you.......Sorry.

you go to europe, waiters and people will do their bests to speak in english and help you out ....

(Checks profile...Age...)

Ooooohhhh...okay.

Not in France...
umm... sorry but thats not true.. granted alot of people speak it! If your going to a foreign country you better do your best to learn and attemp a few words of there language... cant just expect everyone to speak english..

Things have gone too far,

in England flying our flag is frowned upon in case it offends immigrants, fuck them if you're offended by our country and its flag fuck off somewhere else

Maybe you don?t like the way he worded it, but he makes a good point.

There are many places around the world where Americans can visit without learning an ounce of their language, and they?re fine cause many people speak English.

But try coming to America and speaking German without knowing any English?..you?re screwed.

(English?the official language of HTGTH, the global gnr message board.) ?

Yeah, but Spanish and German are close enough to English you could probably figure it out....Most people anyway.

Yea, on the way back from the Hammersmith gig, me n' my BF got chatting to a guy who works in a pub, and they had quite a lot of England flags hanging up BECAUSE ITS THE WORLD CUP, and his boss told him to take them down because otherwise people would mistake the pub for a BNP pub. He had to take ALL of them down!! Not even ONE little St George's flag was allowed to remain up on the wall!!

ITS A FUCKING TRAVESTY!! :rant: :rant: :rant:

Fuck the government and fuck their shitty Political Correctness laws!!!