Here Today... Gone To Hell!

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well, they need to look at england and how being unable to smack children has brought up a lovely new generation known as chavs.

I'd go further and make a prison sentence mandatory for anyone who hit a child - of whatever age

Its abuse by despicable parents - attacking a child is about as low as you can possibly go and a lengthy sentence is in order. How dare someone assault their own child for their inadaquate parenting?

If you need to hit your child to make them behave you shouldnt be allowed anywhere near a child - but wait, violence and fear is the way to raise children ::)

Send the bastards to jail

i think smacking, not hard, with a warning first  to give the child a chance to stop, is fine.

why dont u try talking with the child - withholding sweets etc?

No wonder people are so aggresive if they were taught violence IS the answer

Children are very impressionable - how the fuck does hurting them benefit them in anyway? What kind of damage does that do - and what kind of emotional wall is that building between you and your child?

If you love your children how could you possibly hurt them - you'd do terrible things to someone if they hit your child, but when you do it....thats okay? Are children your personal toys to be played with as you wish?

Children are naturally naughty - humans automatically test their environment to see what restraits they work within - just because you (the parent) werent prepared for children and the ordeal they can be - that aint the child's fault

by 'you' i dont mean anyone specifically :)

Yeah sending people to prison is the answer........ NOT. Just what we need for our already over crowded prisons here in California. These politicians are going just a little to far with there law making. I do not need the goverment making laws telling me how to raise my child. Giving a child a light spanking is OK but if you spank a child and leave welts or black and blue marks that is a not OK.  Next it will be that you can not yell at your kids,  send them to their room, timeouts sitting in a chair facing the wall or some other punishment will be against the law.

well if your hitting your child then perhaps you do - this law isnt for the parents benefit, but the childs

I understand it is for the childs benefit. Who is to say what hitting is? What if I am at a grocery store with my son and we are playing (which I do alot with him) and I slap him on his butt and the grocery clerk sees this and calls the authorities and now i get a fine because some 16 year old kid thinks i am beating my son. 

(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/397/beatkid4oy6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=beat

Izzy you are out of your mind.  My parents spanked/slapped me and all 5 of my brothers when we misbehaved. NONE of us ever got into fights, none of us ever tried drugs, none of us did anything seriously bad - in other words it didnt effect our behaviour negatively at all.  If anything it made us behave better b/c nobody wanted to get spanked again.  All of us are successfuly, well adjusted, normal adults now.

You want to try to "reason with" a 4 year old????  Thats just ridiculous.  Children aren't equals, they are not your friends.  They are kids. 

If you want to point to aggressive behavior in kids i'd say video games and violent movies have a much bigger impression then a spank or two.

Fuckin' A!  Well said!

Count me in as another one who was spanked as a child.  I rarely got into fights, never did any drugs, and was only nailed for anything by the police once, and it was for a 7th degree misdemeanor trespassing.  Had the old hag across the street not had too much time on her hands and called the cops for us just checking out a half-built home to find out how the hell the builders could want $200,000 for the thing, I would never have been nailed for anything.

I'm now 22, I have a steady job, a B.S. in journalism, and have attended private schools my whole life.  So I'd say I turned out pretty damn well.

California is going to ruin this country eventually.

Obedience is the most important value children can be taught. Maddox explains it best. Children are not the same as adult citizens. They have to be molded with discipline before being the same as men like me. They have to be taught fear of man and God to learn control of their actions.

The law is ridiculous. Any respectable whipping will result in bruises and broken skin. My children will never become like chavs or rednecks when they mature.

dude, i'm sorry but you sound like a damn backwoods hillbilly yourself  :hihi:

passing that law is ridiclous. parents raise their children how they see fit, and the government has no right to say anything about what goes on with children and parents. if the child is being beaten to the point where he or she cant walk, then the parent should be thrown in to jail, because thats child abuse. but for the government to tell you how to raise and discipline your child, is ridiclous. they have no right.

Assemblywoman Sally Lieber, a Mountain View Democrat who is crafting the measure, said corporal punishment victimizes helpless children and contributes to a society "addicted to violence."


I'm sure you'll all be surprised to hear that this woman has never had any children.

so if someone gives his/her child a slap over the ass for something that the child did wrong the police will throw the parent in jail for one year??? so, how would you explain to the child that his mother/father who he's spent his whole life with(0-4 years) that the person he is the most attached to won't be there anymore for him? how can a child so young can cope with not having his parents around? some people are really stupid :rant:

While I personally don't believe in spanking, I think this law is ridiculous.

 :peace:

I think there are two types of smacking, if it's a light slap on the arse like I used to get with a warning giving me chance to stop and behave myself then it is fine but just randomly attacking your child is way over the top and anyone who does that needs to go to jail

Physical punishment really makes no sense.  However, it's very easy to administer and gives immediate results.  Ease and immediate gratification...now those are two attributes our current society can appreciate!

How terrible would it be for parents to learn self-control?  How awful would it be for parents to not lose their cool?  I think alot of new parents don't realize there is an alternative to smacking a kid to get immediate results.  If parents are consistent in severity and style of non-physical discipline, they will be much more likely to raise non-violent children.  To those here in the forum who are proud to announce they were spanked and turned out perfectly fine, that's great.  However, the studies all show you are in the minority on this one.  Sorry.   

I officiated youth basketball for 7 years with ages ranging from middle school to varsity high school games.  The kids are influenced by adults.  When parents and coaches behave like a-holes, so do the kids.  When parents and coaches behave appropriately, so do the kids.  When parents and coaches disrespect officials, so do the kids.  Amazing, huh?

However...a law like this is ridiculous.  First off, how is it alright to hit a 5 year old and not a 4 year old?  Second, I can just see the parent telling the kid, "Just wait till we're outta this store..." and the swatting would be twice as hard when they're out of others' sights.

BTW, has anybody ever spent any time in downtown urban areas?  I have and it isn't pretty.  Needless to say, these teen moms and dads (if they're even around) smack their kids all the time.  In fact I've seen them watching their own kids fight.  There's a mentality that fosters violence.  Kid cries, "Be a man!" is heard.  Fuck that shit.   :rant:

   

Was I the only one who thought Izzy was out of his mind?  :nervous: :confused:

A parent should have the right to spank their kids if necessary.. I was only spanked once in my whole childhood and I turned out fine. Laws are giving children too much control.. they should know their limits and well if you have to spank em once who cares?

My father was hit with a belt growing up and he is one of the most gentle people I know. He is smart and intelligent, graduated from UCLA, is an artist and is now a teacher. Spanking hasn't made him violent OR hate his parents. My grandfather (the one who spanked him) is the kindest person I know and is amazingly good hearted. I look up to the guy and he is certainly not evil or angry.

Personally I don't plan on spanking my kids. Doesn't make this law right either way.

This law is crazy.  The children will be so out of control because they KNOW they can be.

I was spanked as a child and I'll tell you that if I just thought that I would get yelled or something just taken away for a short period of time, I wouldn't have hesitated.

I swore that I wouldn't spank my children too until I had a couple.  They need to know who is boss at a young age.  My kids are spoiled rotten, but they have respect.  My older son wouldn't stay in time outs, if you took something away from him, he would hunt for it and find it.  He was out of control and I had to get a grip on him.  He is now 11 and hasn't been spanked in many years because the limits were finally set.  If they weren't, he would be walking all over me now.

Just a short story of what happened one day at the mall when he was 3 years old.  He was out of control in a store and throwing things around.  I had it with him and pulled him out of the store and into the mall.  I spanked his butt and sat him on a bench.  I saw this woman walking towards me and I thought she was going to give me shit for spanking him but instead she said "I just want to tell you that you are a very good mother.  You can't let children act that way.  Too many people do these days.  I applaud you."  Guess what - my son NEVER threw something in a store ever again.

hehehe, i like how you put the word "BELT" in caps - as if that were really bad! :)  The belt was one of the nicer punishments I got as a kid when I was a little turd. my older brothers got it even worse!  the spankings were probably .000000001% of my childhood, compared to the 99.99999% of the time which was my parents congratulating me on my successes, showed me love and affection and took interest in my life.  I was never bruised or swollen but I knew one thing for sure, DO NOT PISS OFF MOM AND DAD. 

My parents were smart, rather then have 1,000 rules, we lived by one major one - do not embarrass the family.  We were left to our own thinking and understanding to come to terms with what that meant.  sometimes we learned the hard way, most often we figured it out ourselves and didn't get in trouble.

assinine laws like this put the parents on the defense and give kids the options of threatening their parents with punishment instead of the other way around!! 

I had a similar occurrence at a mall before Christmas when my son was 2. ?He saw the food court and wanted what was there apparently. ?I let him know we had some food with us and we wouldn't be stopping. ?He threw himself down and attempted a tantrum. ?I moved him over to the side of the walkway. ?I explained that it's not appropriate to act that way. ?I let him know that if he carried on, we would leave immediately. ?He carried on. ?I picked him up, screaming and crying, all the while I was smiling and walking briskly through the mall to our exit. ?Guess what, he learned the lesson. ?He never asks for anything at the store but he has a great time anyway! ?Both methods work, but consistency is the key. ?Here's the prob. with spanking. ?If you are consistent in talking out problems and providing immediate repercussions that are not physical, your power will continue. ?If you make the physical force the big weapon, or the screaming at the kid the big weapon, guess what? ?You'll have to use these options often. ?Isn't life much more peaceful when your children don't live with the threat of physical force for every transgression? ?At my house it is. ? ;) ?(I'm such a self-important prick ?;D )

PS ?Think about your kid going to school where he or she's not allowed to be struck. ?Hell, if I'm at home and I get hit by my parents, hell, school's a vacation! ?I can sass the teacher and get a punishment that pales in comparison to what I'd get at home. ?Spanking just makes 1 more snot-nosed kid that disrespects authority. ?Why respect authority when it doesn't respect you?????????????????? ?Why respect authority when it doesn't respect you? ?:yes:

PS2 ?My wife asks another question. ?She saw a child hit another child (boy I wonder where the kid learned that) and the mother hit the other kid saying, "You never hit another kid!" ?Okay, makes alot of sense.

PS3 ?I hate to play Monday Morning quarterback Cornell, but I think a possible reason your kid didn't take to timeout was found in your post. ?" My kids are spoiled rotten, but they have respect." ?Really? ?I've met many "spoiled rotten" kids, and the results aren't pretty.
"They need to know who is boss at a young age." ?That's the funniest line you posted though. ?I know who my boss is at work, and he's never once physically punished me. ? :hihi: ?I'm constantly amazed by this. ?Is it a sense of inferiority? ?Are you not confident in your use of language to set boundaries and rules? ?As a parent you set firm limits and a kid will adapt to the system. ?Children are not wild horses that need to be broken. ?It's not the Marines where you break their will and get them to conform. ?Children will naturally conform to the rules of the house. ?Yes, it takes alot of explaining, but, oh yeah, I forgot, that's hard work. ? ?

You're a great father.   :yes:

That's how kids should be raised.  Maybe I agree with Axl4Prez so much because that is how I was raised, but darn it, the results are evident!

Your children shouldn't have to fear you.

Axl4Pres you have great points!  I tried your way for 3 years with no results.  I couldn't find anything that upset him.  If I left the mall, he would have been happy.  I do have something these days.  HE loves to play hockey.  I didn't let him go to practice one night because of something he did and he never did it again.  Now I have my leverage.  :yes:

Also, my 2nd son has NEVER been spanked.  Your way works with him and always has.  Kids are different.

I would even like to say that I feel like the spanking was part of that love and affection. Not that spanking is the only way you can respect your parents (I was only spanked once and respect them greatly) but in the end you really appreciate the discipline your parents dish out because they care. If spanking is just done to abuse and hurt the child the by all means the parent SHOULD be arrested, but when it's for the greater good of the child there is nothing wrong with it at all (assuming that the parent really knows the limits of the law and does not really "hurt" the child.)

And Axl4Prez you really are a great parent. Those are the techniques my own parents used on me and my brother. They were never violent but we knew who was boss. And the one time I got spanked I pretty much deserved it and I knew never to cross that line again (I took shredded cheese and spread it all across my room  ;D ALL ACROSS. EVERYWHERE! Haha looking back good times being a 4 year old.)  :hihi:

I think Axl4Prez2004 has a point, in that spanking isnt effective since it is no longer an option at school (though a call to home FROM the school could remedy the lack of school spanking.) 

I truly don't know if it's effective.  I was a good kid, and I only remember being spanked once.  Either way, there's a BIG difference between spanking and abuse.  I think most people can differentiate between causing a little discomfort and leaving welts or bruises.  The problem is this: spankers don't care if YOU do NOT spank your kids...if they misbehave, that's your problem.  Zealous non-spankers, just like zealous non-smokers, believe they have a right to tell YOU how to live your life and, in this case, how to raise your children. 

Like every punishment, I'm sure that, with repetition, the fear of it wears off, so I don't know that spanking is effective each and every time a child misbehaves.  But once in a while, as long as you draw the line well short of causing physical damage (other than a little stinging and a touch o' redness), it should be a big deal. 

Also, I don't think spanking is the substitute for parenting.  If a child misbehaves because they have crappy parents, then spanking helps very little, I'm sure.     

agreed.   when i did get spanked it was for a GOOD reason.  I tried to run my little brother over with a lawn mower (ok, I wasn't really going to run him over, but i popped it up so the blades were up and chased him a little bit).  wow, my mom saw that and went CRAZY hahah.  but can you blame her?  lets just say I never played around with dangerous equipment again.

axl4prez - i like your style.  i have no doubts you're a great dad and your kids are very well behaved.  you'd make a great VP for me ;) heheh   : ok:

HannaHat, easy there with all that power talk V.P.!  Don't make me smack ya!  I said I'd never smack a kid, not an adult.  :hihi:  Just kidding. 

Seriously, alot of great posts here and you can tell that the folks posting here are not the ones we have to worry about.  Alot of folks here were probably spanked a handful of times and for very good reason.  The lawnmower thing would be pretty damn traumatizing!   :o  If I saw that, yeah, I'd be tempted to smack the living daylights out of ya too!   :hihi:  (but I wouldn't  ;) )
 
Also, thanks for the compliments.  Being a great dad is the most important job I'll ever have.  Being a good role model:  working hard, setting a good example, respecting all people, the list goes on and on. 

Darn, back to the spanking thing.  Wasn't there a line in the movie Schindler's List defining power?  I can't remember what it was, but damn it was pertinent to this conversation!   

Also, -Jack-, my wife got a huge kick out of that cheese story.  That's hilarious!   :rofl:  It could have been worse, other stuff would have stained it pretty bad.   :hihi:  "Grate" stuff.  :D
   

 ;D I was a weird kid.

The only way I could possibly imagine kids ever ever ever being violent is if their parents lightly spanked them at one time before they were 4 years old. ::)

This is one of the worst ideas I've ever seen. I get that hitting a less-than-4 kid is probably somewhat uncalled for, but its but of a vicious epidemic in child 'safety'. Let the kids play dodgeball, let the parents punish their own kids.


Besides, nothing would be better for a kid than to have his parents taken away if they spanked him when he was trying to eat various pieces of furniture.

Settle down Communist China!  Don't drag dodgeball into this!  I'm 1000% in favor of good ol' dodgeball.  And I'm not talkin' about the new cooshy Nerf balls.  I'm talkin' good ol' fashioned red kick-ball style dodge balls that leave welts.  That was some fun stuff.   :yes:
However, you need a good gym teacher around to make sure there are no head shots.   :peace: