Here Today... Gone To Hell!

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9111016&type=product&id=1925065 (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9111016&type=product&id=1925065)

(http://images.bestbuy.com/BestBuy_US/en_US/images/musicmoviegame/pdpimages/9111016.gif)

01 Chinese Democracy
02 Shackler's Revenge
03 Better
04 Street Of Dreams
05 If The World  
06 There Was A Time
07 Catcher In The Rye
08 Scraped
09 Riad N' The Bedouins
10 Sorry
11 I.R.S.
12 Madagascar
13 This I Love
14 Prostitute

Hell yeah! Maybe this should be in the existing thread though?

NO FUCKING WAY!  I'm definitely starting to believe now.  That's awesome, I can't wait.

riad n' the bedovins (sic!) and street of dreams (=the blues?)... strange. no atlas shrugged?

Some comments.

I'm really excited for "Catcher In The Rye" to be there.

"Street Of Dreams" is "The Blues" I guess?

4 songs we haven't heard before.

Or maybe the blues just won't be on this album and thats a song we never heard before. I hope it is formerly the blues though i really like that song and would be bummed to have to wait to hear its official release.

thank god Catcher is on the album!!! i was so worried they would save it for future releases!

i am really happy now :beer:

I really hope Street of Dreams isn't the blues. Guns have always refered to it as The Blues. Odd.

Thats for cover B. Street of Dreams may be an old name for it so maybe cover Bcould be a bemo cd like Metallica did with Death magnetic? Doubt it but I hope.

 :peace:

"Bedovins "

Catcher (in the rye)!
TWAT!
Prostitute (Message for you)!

 :beer:

I knew there was a reason I was up late on here...

I can't see the tracklist on the provided BestBuy url... Is it the source?

mabye its bedouins?

Isn't it supposed to be bedouins or something like that? I wonder who will get chewed out for that typo.  :hihi:

Try this one: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=pcat17080&type=page&qp=crootcategoryid%23%23-1%23%23-1~~q70726f63657373696e6774696d653a3e313930302d30312d3031~~ccat02001%23%230%23%235cvq~~nf300%7C%7C436f6d696e6720536f6f6e&list=y&nrp=15&sc=musicSP&sp=-bestsellingsort+skuid&usc=cat02001 (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=pcat17080&type=page&qp=crootcategoryid%23%23-1%23%23-1~~q70726f63657373696e6774696d653a3e313930302d30312d3031~~ccat02001%23%230%23%235cvq~~nf300%7C%7C436f6d696e6720536f6f6e&list=y&nrp=15&sc=musicSP&sp=-bestsellingsort+skuid&usc=cat02001)

It's on the top two albums.

I dont want to sound like an idiot,

but Jarmo can you confirm this to be a true tracklist?

I just found the misspelling odd...

My fellow gunner i agree 1000% with you. these are some really BIG guns.

This tracklist made my fucking day!  : ok:

Me too. I thought Riad had a H in there somewhere?


 :peace:

I wonder whats become of the song "Silkworms"

I think that might come out after the first album

i was really looking forward to hearing atlas shrugged. and i thought that riad was only a try out track. spelling errors and some strange song titels here (like "street of dreams" and only "catcher" instead of catcher in the rye). any chance that some hacker did this?

Like said by a user on Cd.com

I think it's a tease.
and this isn't just a tracklist...

I think we might be getting more tracklist..... like differend versions.

I wanna believe Street of dreams is the blues but Axl has always and even in 06-07 called the blues the blues..


But like others have said from camp... These are not the final versions. so it just may be all these sogns are very differend then we know them as of today...

yeh, mabye there will be different songs on the other versions that will be released along side it,
and they will all be linked in a similar way to each other..

who knows what axls  plan is, lets just hope we see something on the gnr site soon.

wow! it's deffinately happening! and with a few different covers

can anyone get a bigger version of this cover from the site?
(http://images.bestbuy.com/BestBuy_US/en_US/images/musicmoviegame/pdpimages/9111016.gif)

I can't wait to just sit down and play this album all the way through. 

Sorry, this was the best I could do.  :-\

(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/5837/9111016ek8.th.gif)

Why would he have to? Best Buy didn't pull these titles out of their ass.

CATCHER IN THE RYE-HELL FUCKING YEAH!!!!!!!

Garry asked me to post it because he couldn't upload the picture right.

(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/5837/9111016ek8.gif)

-yes its a joke. i dont think there is a high res picture yet

thats really crap quality man

this is great we got to see the real album cover art and now the real tracklist ;D

an excellent tracklist at that.    this is a GREAT fucking time to be a GnR fan.  Maybe the best ever!

 ;D

I hope theres no baby in that basket on the bike  ;) :rofl:

he got me laughing.. which was the point : ok:



mysteron can u confirm or deny that street of dreams is indeed the blues?

it is the blues listing to the blues leak or live version and you will hear the street of dreams in it ;)

HAHA!

Child abandonment! 

 :rofl:




No.  ::)


Thomas, say that again?  ???

Ah, I see it now. Good find! I wonder if album cover B will be a totally different Chinese Democracy. Two different albums, same name but totally different covers and tracklists. Kinda like UYI 1 and 2 but without the numeric distinction...Would be a neat idea.

listing to the blues and you will hear street of dreams in the song put 2 and 2 together my friend street of dreams = the blues ;)

he means that in "the blues" there's a line axl singing that is

I know its called the street of dreams
But thats not stardust on my feet
It leaves a taste that's bittersweet
that's called the blues

thank you cheapjon well case closed :hihi:

I'm starting to think there will be two different albums  : ok:

nah I don't think so, different covers.     Jarmo said one album.

I do believe there is at least another album coming out in due time.   Thats just my opinion based on comments Axl has made in the past and Brain confirmed he recorded at least 30 songs.   

you mean like uyi1 and 2

could be

Yeah I'm kind of leaning that way but im also open to the Fucking with us senario. lol  :hihi:



 :peace:

This is also quiet possible...axl having some fun with the forums.....

Could it possible that some dick at BB is doing it, if we are being fucked with?


 :peace:

and thanks god there is no "Oh my god"!!!!!!!

And no Silkworms  :hihi:

Thank god for Catcher, but where are Thyme, Seven, Leave Me Alone, Atlas Shrugged etc ???

Did I miss something was there not 3 covers yesterday?

4 covers now - 2 for CD's and 2 for Vinyl - one in each format of Cover A and Cover B, whatever that means....

Concerning "street of dreams", remember that "the garden" is one song, "garden of eden" is another.
So maybe it's "the blues", maybe not.

And what about "Lies They Tell"?? It's not there!!

two albuns?? bonus CD?? Or only for the next record?

Answers in few hours (days) I guess.

Lies They Tell = Scraped.

The more I look at this tracklist the more suss I am. I dunno, maybe its just so awesome that I cant think straight, maybe all the Spelling mistakes (might not be spelling mistakes) I dont know. Im feeling very weird about it.


 :peace:

I think street of dreams is The Blues....

No oh my god and silkworms : ok: :hihi:

I think a re-recorded version of Oh My God would be kick ass,

it has some of my favourite lyrics by axl in that song..
although his voice in it is average at best.

I dunno about the "spelling mistakes" , but cover A cd seems to have the same tracklist as cover B vinyl, which means that if there are different bonus tracks on each cd, they don't know of it or won't tell...

Damn we need some news fast!   :confused:

I don't know why everyone bags on Silkworms so much. I really dig that song.

Is anyone else a bit skeptical about this tracklist?


 :peace:

I don't like Silkworms, but I am definately sceptical about the tracklist as well!

I hope Im wrong but something doesn't feel right. I think I might just be tired though. LOl.


 :peace:

Im pretty happy it will finally come out to make any complain.  : ok:

maybe we will have Silkworms as a b-side...

was hoping for more unheard tracks, so because of that I hope the listing is bogus.
but if it's the correct one, Im definately happy enough!

The lyrics and voice are great but the melody itself doesn't hold up to GNR standard.

There's the tracklist on every version of Chinese Democracy on BestBuy.com now !

I'm not that surprised to see alot of songs we've heard before. I was kind of expecting it.

Again about Street of Dreams, even on the Set list during the Ausralian tour it was down as BLUES. It wouldn't surprise me either way but still not too sure.

I know it's early in the morning in the states but its getting late here and I'm getting keen on bed so could someone please wake the fuck up a tell us something.  :hihi:


 :peace:

Any of you "old timers" remember an alleged Axl quote (reported in a Rolling Stone rumor section I believe) from the late 90's where he said that he wanted the next Guns album (no title at that point) to be made up of entirely "chart worthy singles" or some such thing (The quote may have been from Moby or Youth actually now that I think about it)? Based on the songs we have heard of on this list already (bolded)... all of which I think have solid chart potential... could that be where we're headed here? Especially if you take into consideration: (1) how Bach was raving about "Sorry"; (2) "Street of Dreams" could be "The Blues"; and (3) "This I Love" has long been rumored as a next "chapter" of the trilogy or whatever... That really only leaves "Scrapped" as a complete stylistic unknown as far as I know...

I honestly think Uncle Axl could be making a run at putting out an album where EVERY TRACK charts at some level or another. The ultimate fuck you to the critics and haters. Kind of a Guns N' Roses Achtung Baby of sorts. Incredible. :drool:

Yet there is still no tracklist for AFD limited edition


 :peace:

What a ting to wake up to!!! Incredible! AWESOME!!!  : ok:

You have heard prostitute? is it confirmed that leaked song # 2 is prostitute?

Who confirmed that?


 :peace:

No. Sorry guys. Guessing that "leaked song #2" was Prostitute at this point. Sorry for the false alarm.: ok:

TBH i rkn street of dreams is the blues; there's no way the blues would be cut, and also "the blues" is a pretty gay name, esp. for mainstream people; not epic or meaningful enough..

Also, the fact that "street of dreams" is included in the tracklist has convinced me that thats the real tracklist; i mean cmon, if you were a BB employee/hacker, changing the blues' name to "street of dreams" is a pretty obscure random thing to do. As is shortening Catcher in the Rye to catcher; totally reads like an album tracklist. I'm convinced.

This is awesome....great tracklist....I can't wait to hear the final verison of these songs....I personally do hope "Street of Dreams" is "The Blues" because it is one of my favorite songs that GNR ever did...having said that I am really excited that "Rhiad" is on the album because for a long time now I thought that it wasnt going to be...I can't wait!!!!!!

Fuck yeah! Catcher is on there!, can't wait to hear that one in cd quality :drool:

More good news which has come to us.

Kind of expecting that we've already heard a majority of the songs on the album, but they will sound much better, trust me. There are going to be BIG differences between whatever live versions and incomplete demos/rough mixes are out there and the final versions on the album.

And we get two or three newer songs, not to mention "Catcher in the Rye", that is fuckin amazing.

I really really really hope Brian may's parts are still on there. I love that song!


 :peace:

We can assume that brian's parts MAY be on there
.....


Shut up it's funny :rant:

Don't worry I actually did laugh when I saw that.  :rofl:


 :peace:

gr8 stuff!!!


excellent, just fk'n excellent!!  :beer: :beer: :beer:

I can't believe this is really happening : ok:

I wonder if the new song with the lyrics "fortune and fame, if my intentions" e.t.c is on there?

What is the likely title of this?

W.Axl.Rick.

Good news to wake up to this AM. : ok:

Looks like this may actually be released!

Tracklist sounds cool to me
i do hope "street of dreams" is the blues though............i fucking love that song, be a great shame not to have it on there

everyone saying stuff like "where is this and that song" well there's a big chance this and that song will be on the following records


mysteron, was this the kind of announcement that maybe were going to happen today? but from the website? will we get any kind of announcement today from god?

Yeah, i Think "Street of Dreams" is a better title for "The Blues"
Isnt there lots of songs by other artists called the blues? Elton John?

Anyway, the tracklist looks so amazing.. This i Love! Damn, we are going to hear that song soon. That IS CRACY!

I'm very excited!  :beer:


 :love:

Is 'This I love' the one with the woman who plays the Harp?

agree on all accounts.. (at least elton john has a song called "I Guess That's Why They Call It The Blues")

and about this i love holy fuck yeah! i was thinking about that on my ride home from school on the bus, "damn that song and dylan still means so much to him"  :) it's most likely a fuckin fantastic song too :smoking:

yeah.. Patti Hood have done some harp on that song.. http://www.pattihood.com/

Yeah, i wonder if its a hard song, or a calm one..
By the Title it seams to be a slow rocker, but i think i read somewhere it was pretty hard?

I hate myself for having heard the leaks of some of these songs  :no: I be stoopid.

I call the song "Message for you" and I hear the word "prostitute" in the same song.

i think it's "pianobased" song.. some producer or engineer said that i think?

and somewhere didn't axl say that it was the heaviest song he ever wrote? (but with heavy it means it took a lot out of him, emotionally and shit i think)

Yeah, I'm a little disappointed since I basically already own this album, and have for a long time. Of course it should sound much better. Can't wait to hear Street of Dreams and Catcher studio versions.

only 4  new songs.......  :(

The versions that are out there could be pretty different than the finished song.

Also, other than us, no one has heard any version of these songs yet. ( except Shackler's & If the world)

I can see Catcher in the Rye being shortened to Catcher, as there was much talk over the years about how Salinger would never allow that title to be used.  Maybe Axl fought it for 9 years and then gave in.  It's also plausible for The Blues to be called Street of Dreams.  Both make sense.  I don't think I'm ready to give this 100% authenitcation yet though.

Well nobody made us listen to these songs when they leaked...

On other hand I'm almost relieved to know beforehand that the album is indeed going to be something special.

for fuck sake people what did you think when you downloaded songs?

"hey if i download this then axl will have to put other songs on the record.. i believe that because i'm so stupid"

that's pretty much what you're saying

fuck be happy, i know i am even if i've listened to the songs which i thought back then were fantastic and they still are and listening to the final versions and see what happens with everything will make me fkn proud of the band..

you don't already own this record if you have some songs on your computer, you don't own what you steal

I'm very pleased to see Catcher on there.  Really wish we would have gotten the official annoucement before all this information came out.  Hopefully we get it today!

This refutes the rumor that the different album covers will have different bonus songs in them.

It wasn't even a rumour. It was just some people who believed so.  ::)

It's a very good tracklist. It's normal there are the leaks, Axl don't tell us, "download it now!"
Mr. Rose won't change his plans because gnr fans download the leaks, it's our problem, we can choose to download it or not.

I like this tracklist,  : ok:  :drool:

Axl doesn't have to do anything. I said I'm a bit disappointed since I have heard most of it. I realize that's my fault, but I have a right to be disappointed and don't need you to tell me to shut up and be happy. I stole the songs and now I own them. I'm still very excited about hearing the versions we are meant to hear. I would just like the CD to have more songs on there because I'm a greedy bastard!

Catcher in the Rye!

Very cool to see catcher on there if the list is legit. I thought I had read it wouldn't make the cut. One of my favorites by the new band.

Version C is not yet listed, I think.

I can't wait to hear Rhiad!!  It's one of my absolute favorites.  This is freaking amazing  : ok:

 ;D

To the people saying it's our fault that we downloaded the leaks I say NO !:

SEVEN SONGS were already played live (its not illegal to go to a concert and listen to the songs being played !)

Chinese Democracy
Street Of Dreams (The Blues)
Better
 There Was A Time
Riad N' The Bedovins
I.R.S.
 Madagascar

and two of them were already released elsewhere
3. Shackler's Revenge
5. If The World


so that leaves us with only two illegally downloaded tracks:
Prostitute (if it's the unknown song number two)
and catcher (if it is really catcher in the rye)


7 TO 2...

SO I MOSTLY BLAME THE BAND. :P

At first glance...it just doesn't seem correct to me. I don't know...between mispellings, possible title changes (Street of Dreams = The Blues?) and (Catcher = Catcher in the Rye?)...if it wasn't posted on Best Buy.com I would have thought this was just another bogus tracklisting. I guess the fact that it's on BB.com makes it semi-official...unless there's some kind of ruse in order to detract leakers and DLMFs.

I don't know about this tracklisting. I wish someone would confirm or deny this.

C'Mon GN'R...time to speak up and show us your goods!

So did you blame the band when UYI's came out and they had "Don't Cry", "KOHD", and "Back off Bitch", plus another cover "LALD".  I bet you were so pissed about that?

I DONT KNOW I WAS 10 YEARS OLD  :hihi:

I'm freaking happy over Catcher, I hope that "Street of Dreams" is The Blues though...

But seriously, the songs GNR played prior to releasing UYI's did not amount to half of the material found on the albums.

and to recount, if prostitute and catcher are indeed the songs we have heard, then it's only THREE new songs.

I will still buy it though. :peace:

I would like to say again that there will be 3 different version of the artwork, but I don't think the songs will change any...


just 3 covers will change.

love it!

The man has a point.  :hihi:

I gotta admit it's pretty weird to think it's been over 6 years since we heard Madagascar, The Blues, Chinese Democracy... and only now they find their way on a CD.

I knew that would be your argument.  How many times were Rhiad and TWAT played live?  Twice each?  So you're gonna count those two songs?  You heard them performed a handful of times so you're now so familiar with them?  You've basically got 5 songs, which is about a third of the album, not half.  You can't count Shackler's and If the World, they're on officially released material, just like KOHD was and You Could Be Mine.  And I was 12 when UYI's came out and loved every song on those discs, and it really doesn't bother me there will only be 3 or 4 new (to me) songs on the album.  They didn't tell us to download the leaks or watch live versions of the songs incessantly on youtube.  Those were choices we made, so we've got to deal with that.  Some people seem to be having a harder time than others with that.

You should go back and check some setlists from before 09/91.

Songs I can think of off the top of my head that were played well before UYI came out were:

Right Next Door To Hell
Perfect Crime
Estranged
November Rain
Pretty Tied Up
Live And Let Die
Don't Cry
Knockin' On Heaven's Door
Civil War
Bad Obssesion
Back Off Bitch
You Could Be Mine
14 Years

That's 13 out of 30.

he has a point but he would have whined if they didn't play new songs live back on the old tours..

btw this i love is from the very early 90's and i love that it'll finally see the light of day, it's not weird

Thanks, I completely forgot that they played a good portion of UYI's before the album actually came out.  I was just going from their early days prior to AFD.  I knew the "7 years" argument would pop up, at least 3 songs from those albums were played 5 years before they came out.  Then 10 more prior to the album's release.  To think everyone was screaming for the band to play more new songs when they were touring.  God forbid, some people would have no reason to buy the album anymore the way they are reacting.

The plan was to release another album (and a 3rd) some time after CD too, can always wait for that :hihi:

I think this is just a taste...

there is going to be atleast another record... possibly 2.

Axl didn't spend 14 years working on 14 songs. that's ridiculous. just because these are the supposed 14 to hit the tracklist on this INITIAL release... doesn't mean that's where it ends. Unheard songs??? yeah... there's over 30 that Brain just confirmed... so will there be more?? yes!!!

PATIENCE guys... all we need is a little PATIENCE!!!!

you "completely forgot"  ;D like you knew in the first place  :hihi:

well, the times have changed and I wouldn't say it's fair to compare both releases.
So I stand by what I say, people are blaming the illegal downloads for the fact we have heard most of the songs,  I say NEY !

it's only 2 out of 14 !

and by the way I'll buy the album to have perfect quality songs, not lossless demos and shit !

and as norway says... we can learn a lesson and not download anything (especially live stuff ;) ) while awaiting for the next two albums

holy shit. I am so pumped to hear prostitute and sorry and a studio catcher!

did that RS article say that scraped was a rocker?

I wasn't aware you were familiar with things I do and do not know, kind of scary.  I agree, these are two totally different eras and it's hard to compare.  It's also hard as hell to release an album of completely unheard material these days.  That wasn't as hard in the early 90's.  So if you want your favorite band to never play live music for the fear of hearing new unreleased music, that may be a way to solve the problem.  But I don't think you want that.

add "dead horse" and "yesterdays" to that list...

I remember hearing that Rhiad and Catcher weren't going to be on the album? Weird.

Either way, I'm very interested in hearing it.

Yeah, but then there's no perfect scenario..
However, I think Metallica did pretty good on the last album.
Sure it leaked before the release but it leaked as a whole and it hadnt been leaked years before. So I was able to ignore the leak and wait for the release and when I bought it It felt like the old days, discovering a whole new cd, unwrapping the cd, putting it on  and hit PLAY. ;D

With Guns, one was always under the impression of what if I die tomorrow... or in two ...three years... and I have not heard the songs from chinese democracy? for a long time we were under the impression that it was never going to be released (though I never lost hope the fear was there)
Dying without listening to a new gnr song ? I don't think there's much of a choice for a true gnr fan.. So I hope the next record comes quickly that way I won't have to download them. Sorry if you don't like what Im saying but Im being honest. A friend of mine died from cancer and he was a gnr fan and will never have the chance to listen to CD.
So what if I was afraid that it would also happen to me ?
I like GNR more than Metallica, so no I won't bugger off to a Metallica forum  :P

This seems the perfect moment to play my 'smug git' card  :hihi:  - so here it is:

If the tracklist posted is correct, then it'll mean that there are 5 songs I'm familiar with from live shows, 1 song that I've heard live only once, and 8 songs that are completely new to me.  That's right, 8 brand, spanking new songs in which I'll shortly be wallowing in aural pleasure.  8)

I like GNR more than Metallica, so no I won't bugger off to a Metallica forum 

Please don't, many of us love both bands and cherish that tour.

Holy shit... its finally happening isnt it? 

Either way, the production and sound of the final album should blow away any leaks. Catcher will be essentially a whole new song. I'm getting pretty excited.  :peace:

Also, remember, Axl mentioned he had narrowed the songs being worked on down to 32 in 2006. I will take him at his word and assume there are now 18 finished tracks we still haven't heard. I get the feeling album 2 will be a very quick turnaround release. I hope they do like Radiohead did with KID A and Amnesiac. 2 albums from the same recording session released 6 months apart. If Axl is planning something like this, he should announce it now so that the critics won't rip him with the inevitable "14 years for 14 tracks?" or "14 years for this?".....

No word from Mysteron or Jarmo yet?


The Tracklist looks good but it's even better that there are 7 new songs for me to listen to... :) (Didn't want to spoil anything so I haven't listened to the CD, The Blues, ITW, Rhiad & Song 2 yet...)


All in all:  :drool:

This tracklist is awesome  :drool:

People who have heard the leaks know there is at least 11 classic tracks on that album and i am sure the other 3 won't disappoint !

How come people from both sides of the fence are already posting reviews on Best Buys website?? Those of you who love the leaks: You still don't know that the finished album is going to be "perfect" or "5 stars" yet, so why post it? Those of you who hate the leaks and the new band: Same goes for you, you don't know that you'll hate the finished product or that it's "not worthy of the GNR name" yet so why post it?

At this point, We should only expect reliable info from the band itself. No one else, IMO.

I hate to admit this  ::) but I've listened to live versions/demos of:

The Blues
Better
I.R.S.
Madagascar
TWAT
Catcher in the Rye
song #2
If The World

I've also heard Chinese Democracy and Rhiad, but only once. And lately I've listened to Shackler's Revenge.

But it's been so much fun that I don't regret listening to them beforehand, even if they sound exactly the same on the album (which I doubt!).  :)

Just a rumor from other sites, and I don't know how true they are (as always), but some are saying that the tracklist is correct, but the order isn't.  So maybe someone did "leak" the tracklist, but doesn't have it in their hands, or did it from memory or something.  That's why there's all the misspellings.

That'd be very unprofessional of them (BB). Imagine if the photo or tracklist was indeed fake... They'd be advertising their own exclusive with the wrong details.

But, did I miss something or did they just change the genre from "pop" and something else (can't remember), to "rock".  :hihi:

Its on the best of buy website, and some other mod from anthor site thinks he knows.... better  :hihi:

I don't know why you "hate to admit it"  who cares?   :beer:

When GN"R went after the person who leaked the songs, they said something along the lines of "material that was ready for release" (not the exact words I know)....

If that's the case, doesn't this tracklist pretty much confirm that the leaked song without a name is "Prostitute"?

ill be so pissed if song2 is prostitute

I've felt that this was pretty obvious all along.  Either way, I'm beyond thrilled with this tracklist if it is, in fact, the real deal.

ill be so excited if Chinese Democracy is coming out now!

sorry

so will i. i just thought it was gunna be a crazy rocker so id be slightly let down

Same here.  How anyone can be negative right now is just astonishing.  Like Axl "owes" them certain songs on the tracklist.  Gimme a fuckin' break.

Billboard:

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003874830

Some people will never be happy.

They bitch the album isn't out.

They bitch that not enough "new" material is played at the shows.

Then they download illegal leaks and bitch when they've heard a good chunk of the album already.

+1

Im pumped dont get me wrong but didnt someone describe prostitute as "nightrain part 2"?

i dont see how it could be song 2

no one ever said that
they say: prostitute is like a combination of nightrain and november rain
and: is mid-up song with an aggresive rhythm section...
perfectly fits with song 2

I cannot wait to hear This I Love!  ;D

i believe prostitute will turn out to be what we know as the clip checkmate

I also believe that this I love is song 2

Is there any precedent for bands releasing innacurate tracklists prior to their ablums being released?  If so, what would be the point?  

The band didn't release this, though.  Best Buy did.

Ali

Why? Prostitute and TWAT = 5 stars  : ok:

Why do some people think "Prostitute" is "Message for You"? I hope it is as that would be a great way to close the album.

we should know for sure in about a month  :peace:

My guess is that Song #2 is indeed Prostitute -- that slow, great atmospheric fade-out would be the PERFECT ending to this CD.  I hope I am right.

I also kick myself a bit for listening to the leaks: it would have been an amazing experience to listen to this whole CD through with NO clue what the songs would sound like.  That said, I also needed a little something to get me through this long wait.

I'm feel a bit shit now because I have played most of those songs to death, some of them for years :crying: - its my own fault I know.
So now I have 2, mabye 3 new songs to look forward too - oh well, not what I was expecting but I'm still very excited to hear the finished versions of the other ones.
Its so unfortunate that it has taken such a long time for these songs to be released, 4 of them were played live in 2001 for goodness sake.

I do think the final versions of these songs will blow most people away, its a very strong album,  thankfully the millions who will buy the record wont have spoiled their appetite by listening to live versions and demo's. For most people this will be a whole new experience. Roll on the world tour!!!

Funnily enough I changed my signature last week to refer to my favourite new song, which I now see is called "Street of Dreams". I even had to foresight to give it capital letters as it sounded more like a name, than a desription to my mind.

Yeah, I've always thought that it might be a good way to close the album. I love the way it kinda fades out. Although I'd be happy with almost anything.  ;)

Man, I hope we get a confirmation on this soon. 

Catcher!!  This I Love!!!  I never thought I'd hear finished versions of either of those and now I'm just thrilled at this news.

Mysteron/Jarmo,  To your knowledge can you confirm or deny this tracklist?

everyone bitches...

1. albums is coming. stop bitching.
2. album is coming. stop bitching.
3. album is coming. stop bitching... see where I'm goin' with this?

What excites me even more is that besides the incredible tracklist that we already have for CD, there are many other rumored songs over these years that, eventually, could be on the next records or as bonus.

Oh my God
Silkworms
Checkmate
Oklahoma
Seven
Leave Me Alone
General
Thyme
Ides of March
Atlas Shrugged
Zodiac
Eulogy of a Broken Heart
Cock-a-roach Soup
Suckerpunched
No Love Remains
Friend or Foe
Zip It
Something Always
Hearts Always Get Killed
Closing In On You
Strange Disease

"Zip It" doesn't exists.

How do you know??
And do all the others exist?

We don't know.

Exactly.  Some people are acting like Chinese Democracy is their only chance to hear these other songs.  It isn't.

LMAO

...very hard to please...

from the point of view of the record company or Best Buy, i'm not sure i see the rationale behind releasing an album with at least 5 songs that can be listened to on Youtube the last few years and a few more that can be picked up by anyone with modest understanding of the internet. Every review is going to be "...with only 4 songs not previously heard...". To my mind, that kind of takes away the steam of promoting it as "FINALLY after 17 years..."

also, doesnt the first single, if they're releasing a traditional single, HAVE to be a song no one's heard before?

I am tired of worrying and debating about song titles for heard and unheard tracks. Let's just take what we have now and go with it.  :-*

catcher and this i love to be on the album is indeed very good news, if legit! still i think there must be lots of better songs than riad. i really wanted to have some of those cool sounding titles on there instead: seven, thyme, atlas shrugged (i knew "the general" wouldn't be)... but enough of that. i believe it will be a strong album.

From what I know...

The setlist that was posted on the official GN'R website last year had "Prostitute", "If The World" and "Rhiad" listed on it... then it turns out that three songs get leaked:  "If The World", "Rhiad" and one without a name.

The descriptions of the song over the years seemed to somewhat matchup with the unnamed song and some people think he even says the word "Prostitute" in the song.

Then, GN'R refers to the recently leaked material as being prepared for release and this tracklist shows that Prostitue is on the album, so the unnamed song could only be one of:  Sorry, Scraped, This I Love or Prostitute...  Odds are pretty good that's the name of the song.    : ok:

I listened to the leaks... but it was my choice.
If people/critics are downloading them or listening via you tube.. their choice.
It's not an obligation.

But please, listen/judge unfineshed tracks and still critize the album for having leaked songs.. well that's the normal level hipocrisy that we have in almost every journalist that write something about Axl, GNR and CD.

I'm a fan, I want to buy the album, listen to the finished tracks, no matter if I heard 1 or 14 of them before.

Anybody who's "disappointed". You had a choice.

It's like opening your Christmas presents days early and then sit at Christmas all bummed out because you got nothing left to unwrap.

You made the decision. Nobody else. You did!






/jarmo

That's it. ;D

well, the outro of song nr. 2 sounds as if it was meant to be an album closer. but some people i tend to trust, say it is NOT prostitute.

+1.  Did people really think Axl would rethink the entire tracklist so not to disappoint everyone who indulged in the leaks.   ::)

I always thought There Was A Time was the perfect way to close the album... but I guess that's not meant to be.  Maybe they can use it to close a few shows on the next tour.

I am actually happy that I have heard most of the songs before. Now I KNOW the album is gonna rock! Otherwise it would have been just an opinion, an opinion that would probably turn out to be true, but still just an opinion. And besides there's only so many songs that you can fit on a cd, I wouldn't have wanted to see any of the familiar songs being replaced by something we have never heard before.

This list is disappointing. Not because we've heard most of these songs already, but because there are only three that I really like, and a couple that just suck. I just hope the four new ones are really good.  I was also hoping to hear The General. That's supposed to be the best of the new songs.

but what do you expect from the kids, when christmas is postponed for years and years? those kids have even grown up and still believe in santa. that's something. i saw listening to the leaks more like opening those small doors on my advent calendar... and i still don't know all the presents i'll get. so, i'm a bit ambivalent when i look at the tracklist, but still excited.

NOBODY ever said The General was supposed to be the best of the new songs.....people just make shit up. ::)

I dont think anyone have heard the final mixes yet.. Wasnt the leaks demos from way back?
Anyway. You stil have some new songs there u havent heard..

I am so pumped!

Street of Dreams is such a better name than The Blues and if song #2 is indeed Prostitute, its a killer way to end the cd.

I'm not disappointed. It is what it is. I have played/listen to the songs to death too... i made that choice. In fact my band covered two songs a while back. Chinese Democracy and Better. But that doesn't take away from the record for me. I already know how to play most of the songs... but I still love them.

There's 3 things in it for me...

1. GNR giving the one finger salute to the naysayers.
2. Axl putting out material that puts to rest the "need" of Slash in GNR. (GNR w/out Slash is still GNFR)
3. Having an official copy in my hands...

That's about it. Everyone can have their own... that's what CD means to me.

Christmas wasn't postponed. You just didn't know what Christmas THAT gift was gonna be under the tree. 

Then when you knew it was closer than ever, you decided not to wait.




/jarmo

I'm glad I heard the leaks or live songs! Without the leaks or bootlegs GN'R wouldn't be this popular anymore and this board wouldn't even have as many members.
When CD gets released we'll hear the new / final / improved version of the songs we already know and some totally new songs.

Man, I wonder why people have such level of certainty even knowing a thing.
That's why some tend to think Axl is a freak and stuff. They must believe in Yoda and those other odd GNR Tales.

 ;)

I don't think anyone said Axl couldnt make music w/o Slash, they just said it wouldn't be as good. We will find out soon enough.

AFAIK no new leaks has appeared after the 23:rd November news? Before that we didn't know it was Christmas this year we would get the gift.

The music industry is totally different today. I can't say its better thats for sure, but it's interesting to be able to get your hands on rough demos/mixes when they leak. It's a different way to experience music I guess. It probably will kill the surprise factor a bit when the CD is released, how could it not, but I'm not sure I regret it. I have worn these demos out, and when I think I'm sick of everything on my ipod, I can always turn to GNR.  GNR is the only band I am interested in enough to bother tracking down leaked songs.

I guess all the signs weren't enough for you.



/jarmo

i dont know why but im actually more excited to hear the framiliar songs and see how the final versions stack up.

apparently the chinese democracy (the song) that was played for those BB employees was covered in new guitar work and vocal layers and a totally ew mix

AFAIK no new leaks has appeared after the 23:rd November news? Before that we didn't know it was Christmas this year we would get the gift.
[/quote]

Agreed, the news just came out, judging by how long the album took, there was always a chance this woulda took another god knows how many years.
And NO im not complaining about the setlist or anything. They waited way too long to put this out. You ppl that are on here blaming the fans are blaming the wrong people. Not saying the cd wont be awesome, im saying it should have been out a long time ago, and it does take away from the finished product, and anyone that will come on here and say that the fact that most of the songs have been leaked DOESN'T take anything at all away from the album are lying through their teeths

I wouldnt like to presume either way about the proposed song title of the Blues, I'm just looking forward to hearing this baby because I have avoided every leak and shitty version over the years, ready for the big event!!

But one thing I will say about the Blues is that during one of the 2002 shows Axl introduced The Blues as, a new song with a working title of The Blues. Maybe this is the proper title of the song, who knows!

Mike

Uhh,where do you think Best Buy got that tracklisting from? GNR forums? It is clear that GNR signed off on the tracklisting and cover going up. I would love to know what GNR are waiting for as far as making an announcement.

I just hope they let us know who is in the band. It is fairly silly that this close to ChiDem we do not know the status of Finck and Brain.

And where do you think BB got it from? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm????

I dont think the intention is to BLAME anyone, unless u are complaining on the tracklist..
We dont know shit about whats been going on behind the scene in the GNR camp, so no one is
in any position to blame them for when to release theyr music... Waited to long? Maybe you have
waited to long.. and if thats the problem, then things have come back to bite u in the ass now.
Myself have had and interesting ride in music all thease years. Guns N Roses isnt everything. I have
discoverd lots of new music the past 10 years. And lots of the new GNR members have made me got
into theyr music, as solo acts, previous bands, and side projects... It has also given me many cool ideas
to develope my own music, (as i play in a band). We should be happy that GNR years for sure are ahead
of us now.. and im sure the next couple of months will be really interesting in many ways.. so why complain?

I am not complaining.I have heard Demos so for me it would be worth it to pay $20 just for a real version of Catcher.Not knowing who is in the band is not acceptable at this point in the  game.

In 2006, on the setlist (paper) of the shows, it was still written The Blues 8)
So the title change has been made between 2007 and now.

We know who is in the band..
just go here and take a look www.myspace.com/gunsnroses

On their first opening show with the new band, 01-01-2001, he said it was called the Blues.

Me too, I've never looked for demos of any other band at all. Nor do I visit forums unless a tour is on that I fancy going to see or a new album is coming out.

Its because we know fuck all and every day we hope to gain an insight into our favourite band, all we get hints and whispers and the enigma of this version of GN'R.

Its very addictive, I dunno why. Mabye the release of this record will resolve a lot of the mystery and bring the enigma back down to earth with a bump. I doubt I will have the same anticipation for the next album, but thats hardly suprising, I dont know if anyone will. This has been a completely unique experience and I think it will go down in folklore.

Maybe Song 2 is Scraped -- it is the 2nd song on the track list...

So going by that Brain is out? Well that sucks.Please don't tell me Finck can be in 2 huge bands.This isn't liek jumping back and forth between two local bar bands, I highly doubt he can be in both NIN and GNR.What is he gonna do, toss a coin and decide what band he is going play live with on a certain day?

The status of Robin and Brain is that they are both on the album ... as is Buckethead and Frank and Bumblefoot and Tommy and Richard and Chris and Dizzy and Axl.

What is silly is looking for something negative with all the positive things happening.

NIN isnt a band in the same way.. NIN is driven and written by Trent Reznor
Robin have played for NIN before.. and gone back to Guns.. Maynard has 2 big bands.. Tool and A Perfect Circle
lots of people have different projects..

'Song 2' refers to the order in which the last batch of Leaks (aside from Shackler's) came out...in other words file 1, file 2 and file 3. It became known as 'Song 2' because it was the second song released and nobody knew the actual title.

It's nice to see how the thread went from everybody excited and happy to bickering and bitching overnight...

ahh... the memories of Yesterday...  :no:

What the hell?I didn't ask who played on the album, I asked if they were in the band.
Wanting to know who is in my favorite band is not silly, especially when Finck/Brain have apparently played a big role in writing for the album(s)

Bucket is on the album too, however I know his status in the band.

Maybe you don't care who is in the band but others of us do.

I must not be a fan though,after all I am probably only buying all 3 covers and 3 different vinyls.

No one have said your not a fan.. comon Lets put the discussions like that to rest for a second, and just injoy whats happening..

I think that's the whole point.

Why do you need to "worry" about that now?



/jarmo

I am not worrried, I just think it would be cool for Brain and Finck to still be in the band.I have no problem with Frank and if Finck has chosen to go back to NIN then so be it.We have heard of plans for an 09 tour and a new video  so this issue is going to have to be resolved sooner rather than later

And their writing credits and other contributions will be listed in the album booklet. 

My point is why worry now about who the touring band members will be when right now the album is coming out and it's already been confirmed that Robin and Brain's parts are on the album.


I pre-ordered all 6 versions too!!!  ;D

Wow!!! I'm impressed. 14 new songs that I've never heard. (Yeah, I know I could hear them else were but I'm a cd kind of a guy who likes to purchase the finished product of the artists. )
This is fantastic. And this is just the first one...........In all the freaking bullshit that's been going on this year this will make me happy and lift the dark cloud above. Thanks G&R.......

And im sure it will be.. I dont think Axl wont solve that issu, "when" the tour plans starts.. like he have said on www.gunsnroses.com

:beer: Cool! I guess that we will know either way before the tour as I would HOPE there will be band photos released shortly.Surely they have to have group photos in the album booklet as a lot of people think of this as not GNR but the Axl Rose band and group photos will help show this is more of a band and not a one man show.

No shit, but the tracklisting still wasn't put out by GN'R on their website.  That's the only way it is official.

Ali

As excited as I am, I am waiting for the word of Axl before I truly go nuts with this news.

Of course it is official.Do you think Azoff/GNR gave BB a fake tracklisting?

thought about the same thing.

Do you guys think that by putting "Catcher" Axl tried to avoid a lawsuit from Salinger, the author of the book?

Also, I remeber hearin that "Rhiad" wouldn't be on the cd... There's still some mistery on the air.

I'm so excited to finally hear mastered versions of these songs.  Hearing TWAT, Better, CD, Street of Dreams aka The Blues, IRS all on one official CD excites the living hell out of me, then hearing being able to hear IF the World, Prostitute, the much talked about This I Love is goign to be something else.

dizzy said general is his favorite. so did baz.

Just enjoy the album.  How many times did we hear that once we hear the mastered tracks that the demos wont even compare

I love the tracklist when I first read it I was like where is The Blues ??? but then I saw Street Of Dreams and then I got it.  I can't wait to hear Better, Catcher, and Sorry those are the most im looking forward to in hearing.  Im REALLY EXCITED TO SEE THE FIRST SINGLE AND VIDEO !!

Sorry is Baz's favorite.  He also said Axl told him that The General is the sequel to Estranged and will be released in a future album, not CD.  So we knew it wasnt going to be on CD from that interview.  I dont remember Dizzy saying that though, when was that?

yeah, we kind of knew general wouldn't be on the album. but axl said at a certain point, catcher won't be either. things can change pretty quickly. glad that catcher made it. it's so beautiful. but i think baz mentioned in one of his interviews, that general was the one song he was really blown away when he heard it (and then axl told him it wil be on the 3rd record). to dizzy: he mentioned that in an old interview, saying that brain wrote the track. i'll try to give you a link. hold on, i hope i find it.

sorry was his favourite, then in a later interview he referred the general as his favourite..

never ever heard him say anything about the general have any connection with estranged? it's a brain song.. (and i've read every interview with baz since i dunno how long..)

dizzy said so at some frat party in 05 or 06 i think..

Axl never said Catcher in the Rye wouldn't be on CD. He said that the demo version with brian may's parts might not be on. So he basically said the guitar could be rerecorded by a member of the band.

^ and he said that in the eddie trunk interview in 06

Well, I like the tracklist. Seeing Catcher in the Rye (if it is Catcher in the Rye...) possibly making an appearance has just about made my day. And as for all of you fff... pieces of shh... Who have downloaded a massive amount of the material already, well... All the more reason to look forward to the next album!, and the next...

axl said - at least that was what people were reporting - that chatcher would be on the 3rd album during some of the first cd tours, long before the trunk interview.

the dizzy mention of "general" is from metal sludge interview

I: In terms of the tracklisting on Chinese Democracy, what is your favorite track on the album?

D: umm... I don't know... last year Brain had this song called 'the General' that was really cool... and another song called "we were lying [not sure if thats the name he said]" ... I don't know [Dizzy shrugs]

Hmmmm, "we were lying"??? Could this be "Lies They Tell" otherwise known as "Scraped"?

Yea i remember people saying that back in 2002, but it was never confirmed. The Eddie trunk Interview was much more recent and during that interview he said that the version with Brian May probably wouldn't be on the album, and he wasn't referring to the song in general.  :peace:

Agreed.  I couldnt be happier with this tracklist.  To me, "This I Love" is a real treat to see on the album.  Back in I believe 1993 Axl spoke about it in an interview as being the "heaviest" song he ever wrote and how he wants it to be on the next album.  I honestly did not expect it to survive the original band's separation.  It must be a very special song for Axl.  Can't wait to hear this one.

Here is Axl's quote regarding This I Love...

"I wrote and recorded a new love song that I want on the next record called This I Love, that?s the heaviest thing that I?ve ever done."
-Axl

Oh yeh I agree with you mate, it has always been known as The Blues during the shows.

It's just I remember one of the bootlegs during the 02 tour had that particular quote from Axl before he introduced The Blues referring to it as the working title. It just made me wonder when I saw this track listing today if this working title thing meant that for the album version it would have a different name!! Just a thought really!! I will get out the old bootlegs and see what show it was in!!

Mike

Yeah, well, err... Eh? What does that have to do with me?

By heaviest, does he main heavy, musically/aggressiveness or heavy lyrically? Ala, Estranged.

the interesting about that "old" question, is that its about to get answered..  : ok:

Im lovin the tracklisting.  So glad Catcher made it

Didnt he find writing the lyrics to coma "heavy" as well?

I prefer The Blues as a title rather than Street Of Dreams, mabye its because of familiarity. Street of Dreams sounds too optimistic, The blues sounds sombre and reflectfull.

Just so fucking chuffed to find out that Catcher In The Rye will be on it and I will soon be able to hear the finished article.
I'm not to keen on the intro though, its not that I dont like it, its more that I think it could do with a little more constructive piano. I heard "Loving Cup" on Exile on Main St and I thought Catcher would sound great with a little piano interlude like that before the main piano riff. I also prefer how that Stones piano sounds, more wholesome  and warm :)

I agree 100% with this...and I would be lying if I said I did not hear all of the leaks.  Some of these songs were unavoidable if you went to several shows like I did.  I think anyone that went to a show or two heard  Better, IRS, Madagascar, The Blues, Chinese Democracy and TWAT.  Or if you own rockband you heard "Shacklers Revenge."  I know for a fact we have been hearing "The Blues" , "Chinese Democracy" and "Madagascar" since Rio in 2001.  The only real solid "studo quality" tracks that I have known to come up were the ones from the Antiquiet site a few months back and I believe it was Ron who said he wa relieved when he head it because those were not finished versions of the songs.  

Jarmo is right that anyone who decided to download any of the leaks shouldnt be upset that  you chose to download the songs before they came out.  I am actually very excited now that I saw the tracklist, because I LOVE those songs that are on the record..and now we will actually have REAL official versions of them...

Not to be negative, but am I the only one who is just slightly bummed that there are only 3 new songs we havn't heard yet?  Sorry and Scraped are new, Prostitute and  This I love could be new songs, although one could be the Message for you leak, other than that everything else we'v heard allready. 14 years for 3 or 4 new songs and people are loving the tracklisting??

I like the leaks and i'm sure i'll love the disk, but I will admit I was expecting more surprises, I'm hoping for another tracklist, maybe a double disk with some BIG guns we havn't heard yet.

I always thought of Elton John when I heard the title "The Blues"..."I guess thats why they call it the Blues" was always the first thing to come to mind...

it's a piano song..

Axl: I wrote and recorded a new song that I want to have on the record called "This I Love."1

Howard Karp (Engineer): I only worked with Axl, no one else, it was a solo piano piece. I heard nothing else. Axl was cool, two short evenings, nothing too eventful.

Dave Dominguez (Engineer): "This I love" is actually an old GN'R song that the original GN'R wrote and recorded for the "Illusion" records. I like that song a lot. It took a couple of weeks to find all the tapes because they finished recording "Use Your Illusions" on the road and one tape was in Paris, another in London and another in Sydney I believe.

http://www.gnrsource.com/songinfo/cd/thisilove.htm

that the point..from one "downloading motherfucker" to another, you really have no right to be pissed...you decided to hear the album early...there are 14 NEW songs on this disc, but only 4 or 5 that you have not been able to steal yet... :hihi:

I have heard alot of different versions of these songs on the tracklist and I am not disappointed at all...quite the opposite...I was actually quite relieved to see that the songs i have come to know and love over the years made it onto the record....

You should be bummed at yourself for listening to stuff you weren't suppose to.

If you were like Me and some others on here, you would have 14 brand new songs to hear. :hihi:

OK damn it, I get 3 new ones as well, but hearing them finished etc will be amazing.

I can't wait to hear Sorry and This I Love.

When he says "HEAVY" does he mean heavy as in musically heavy, like WTTJ heavy or just lyrically and emotionally heavy?

What if they changed it because it's a better title for a single? (radio voice) "This is guns n roses: street of dreams"... Nah, probably wishful thinking... I love that song. ;)

I wonder how big input baz will have on sorry if it's only harmonies and no real lines, i don't think it's more then that tbh


look just a couple of posts above yours and you'll most likely find that out..

Well the piano always made think Elton John, well, at least 7 odd years ago it did.

Since the first time I heard "Chinese Democracy" i knew it would be the open track, even in my unnofficial bootleg  Chinese Democracy is the opening track. And "Message for You" is the closing one, right after "Catcher"!

 :confused:

I didn't steal anything, I paid money to seem them live in concert and listened to one or two demos posted on Youtube briefly.

I mean, the last track on the "album". Apologies from a ESL dowloading motherfucker! :-[

For those of you hoping that version B is a second album, the thing that makes me think it's VERY unlikely (other than Jarmo's word on the matter, which seems like enough) is that ALL of the leaks are on the tracklist we've seen.  Imagine if songs from UYI had leaked.  Wouldn't the law of averages say that some of them would end up on I and some on II?  Since all the leaks are on this tracklist, my thought is that this is all we're getting.  (And by "all," I of course mean a mind-fucking kickass sonic bowel-emptier that will have everyone who listens to it cursing the heavens that no other album they ever hear will be worth their time after Chinese Democracy brain-rapes them in the most rawking way imaginable.)

and the dude from best buy said "i hope we dont have to wait another 14 years for the second album"

i'm saying more from a sales/ marketing point of view...it's not really a new album. Madagascar was on MTV 6 years ago. They dont have to sell it to the choir (us) they have to sell it to a million or two other people as the triumphant return etc etc, but with more than half the album available online for years, the return is more of a trickle-again, from a marketing perspective-than an explosion

to be clear, i will buy the album and probably each song on itunes, so chalk me up for two.....however, i listened to all the leaks and burned most of them to CDs or ipod. Why? because it'd been a long time and we had no reason to think the album was coming anytime soon, as of the last leaks. If Axl would have written a note saying "the album IS coming, please wait to hear it as a singular entity" or something to that effect, i personally would have held off.

i dont mean to bring negativity to something i've been waiting 13 years for, it's just a bit of let down when i can sing probably 4-7 of the songs along with the track on first listen.

I know where you're coming from, I guess at times even I wondered if we'd ever see the album.  But deep down, you didn't really think Axl worked on an album, put a new lineup(s) together, toured, played tracks for Baz and others, laid down 3 tracks on Baz's album, wrote an open letter to the fans clearing stating the album was being worked on and wrapped up, that it really would NEVER come out.  If that's the case, you have no faith.  So yes you are to blame for giving up and downloading the leaks.  I'm not gonna condemn you, or anyone for that, because that would make me a hypocrite.  But to now complain that the songs you've already heard because you lost hope are gonna be on the album, I'm sorry but that doesn't fly with me.

Dude - did you read what you wrote, before you posted?  You stole the music, which you wouldn't have done if Axl told you to wait...and now you are bummed because you have been listening to these stolen songs, and it is a letdown?   :confused:

Yeah I cant believe people are complaining ! man can't please some GnR fan's. Good tracklist here's my order of the tracks im most eager to listen to.


1. Better
2. Catcher
3. This I Love
4. I.R.S.
5. Street Of Dreams
6. Prostitute
7. Madagascar
8. Scraped
9. Sorry
10. TWAT
11. Shacklers Revenge
12. If The World
13.Rhiad
14. Chinese Democracy

I'm listening to the leaks right now as I type this and read about all those who are disappointed. I'm not disappointed, quite happy in fact. If I get killed on the way home from work (knock on wood) at least I can sit at the pearly gates knowing I got some of it in.

It's like dying before getting laid, but you had a chance with an ugly girl and took it, nothing wrong there. Now I get the ugly girl and the hot girl. Works for me, and I'm all practiced up for the hot girl.

I'm actually more excited now that I have the leaks, because before I had almost lost interest in GN'R, but the leaks brought back all level of high interest! LOL.

Peace,
a.

The same with me. I downloaded all leaks, but of course that I'm still waiting very anxious for the cd, for the new songs and for the definitive versions of the leaked ones.

But I can't help but remember of people saying that these leaks wouldn't be on the album, and I kind of hoped for the album to be 13 new songs...

seems as if i was WRONG and song nr. 2 is prostitute. according to mygnr and cd.com...

Some people are bummed because they expected the release of this album to match the last release of original works from Guns N' Roses, Use Your Illusion 1 and 2.

People are just commenting their opinion thats all.  For anybody to saddle up on the High Horse Sanctimony and strike them down as infadels cuts no mustard with me at all. Its deeply unimpresive, the vast majority of people who listen to leaks - love the band, love the songs and will  buy the album.

Its a sad state of affairs that I think twice before posting here that I'm suprised that it has taken until nearly 2009 to get these 14 songs out. I am very suprised that so many old song titles appear, I thought with the delays something bigger was coming. But I can hardly wait  for the follow up, because I havnt heard a note of it, nor do i want to!
I thought Chinese Democracy would be a huge musical acomplishment and unique expression of unparalleled creativity, but for the time being it appears to be a mere mortal rocking album thats only fucking brilliant.

Thats not whining.

objectivity would have led someone to at least entertain the thought the album would never see the light of day. I always held out it would, but when nothing was told to us for quite a while, one has to get objective about it.

again, as i said, while i'm a bit let down i know half the songs, i will get the album and wear it out listening to it. My posts are with regards to marketing the album to the general public.

and by the way, as far as the "you stole the song so why are you complaining" BS, at least 5 of these songs have been played live very often. My concern is with the ready availability of at the very least those songs played live, the hype surrounding the release will get muffled somewhat. IE. what will reviewers be reviewing? three or four  songs. MOst every major music publication i;ve read has done some sort of write up on the leaks and the live material. Didnt one review cover the leaks song by song as an album review would? Point being, an 80% complete initial reaction has already been made by the people who will or would have written reviews.

The leaker who was arrested confirmed it is prostitute, because he was charged with violating it's copyright

Anyone think we may see some kind of official announcement tonight regarding this track list?

 I think an official confirmation or denial would end a whole lot of debating and confusion among fans.  : ok:

I agree with this completely.

I know downloading the leaks is wrong but I was very eager to hear the music and I wasn't sure when or if I would ever get to, and that music has had a great impact on me and continues to. Now, it can only be better getting to hear the songs in their completed format as the band wants them to be heard. Like Aaron said, hearing this music has made me so much more excited for the album, even if I've heard some of it already, in a incomplete state.

And now, so close to the album? I've stopped listening to the leaks. I've gone back to the live versions from Pittsburg 2002 and Rock in Rio 3. Oh yeah, and "Oh My God' :D

This is going to make the first listen of the CD even more exciting.

Hopefully at the very least Mysteron might have some update to give us?..

Yeah I'm waiting with some other french fans, it's 1.15am here, we'd like to know if we can go to bed ? ;D

I wonder how many of those same people thought UYI wasn't great at first because it wasn't AFD....





If you look back at what GN'R has gone through since the last album was released, wouldn't you still think it was a huge accomplishment, and not only musically, to get the album released?




Unless you went to multiple shows on the tours, you wouldn't really know the songs.

But things are a bit different if you downloaded them, either pirated versions or live recordings.





And now you know why we're against leaks on this site.

Thanks for explaining it so nicely.  : ok:


At the end of the day, I'm still amazed of the ones who feel "let down".

This is the moment you all claim you've been awaiting for since 1993.

And what happens?




/jarmo

i wouldnt have listened if Axl said the album was coming, but he didnt, so i listened because frankly i (we?) were desperate for new material. To say someone stole the music is kind of leap. I'd be more than willing to pay for it, but we were never given a sense of when or if we'd ever get the chance.

hypothetically...say the leaks come out, but we never get to where we are now, 5 weeks short of a release. At what point would you or anyone else then listen to the leaks? Are you willing to say you'd go to the grave never having heard those songs, on principle? Of course not because that's ridiculous. So everyone has a line. For Better, IRS, CD etc, my line was "i already heard em live" for the rest it was "we've heard nothing indicating these will come out, and it's been 13 years already (for me)"

for what it's worth, the leaks i downloaded off limewire i've set it so those songs specifically cant be uploaded by anyone off my computer, so i'm not sharing them. And i will be buying every single one of them probably twice (assuming an Itunes release) so it's not like i "stole" them as a replacement for physical property. I downloaded them in temporary lieu of physical product with the hope of replacing them with official, sanctioned releases.

lol at people saying they downloaded the music because they "didn't know the album was coming" and "were desperate for new material" :hihi: :hihi:

Obviously the album was coming eventually. For those disappointed, you spoiled the album for yourselves, and people even WARNED you about it. Having downloaded the leaks and listened to them, I'm still very excited for the album, and even if I wasn't, I wouldn't have the balls to complain about it since it would be MY fault I've heard most of it. lollllllllllllll.... people  : ok:

It's all about the liner notes...that's gonna be some interesting stuff!!

is there ANYONE on this board who heard of Better and didnt at least check it up on youtube multiple times? The show i went to was Dec 6, 06, when everyone already knew better was out and there were multiple live recordings on youtube. Were we supposed to not watch those? At the very least, the most pious, legal minded person on this board who would never download leaks, has most likely heard Madagascar, Better, the Blues, CD and IRS many many times on youtube.

i get why the board, you and the band are against leaks. I would have much preferred it didnt leak, but given the circumstances of the wait and the multiple false starts and the lack of communication from the band as to what/ when/ why, it should be at least understandable that people listened to them.

So Jarmo, are you still pleading the 5th on whether this set is legit?

yeah well, n 2006 "santa" threw 4 or 5 presents live from the stage to me... I didn't unwrap shit !

the album was "obviously" coming in 1999 when OMG and the rolling stone article came out. It was "obviously" coming in 2001 after rock in rio, it was "obviously" coming in 2002 after MTV, it was "obviously" coming in 2006 after a successful tour and Axl saying he hoped it'd be out by March the next year...back to my point above: at what point do you say "gee, it might never come, i'm gonna listen to these songs"? How long do you reasonably wait?

When did Axl ever say the album WASN'T coming?  I never heard him say that.  I've heard him say it's coming countless times.  Granted, we went awhile without hearing much, BUT at no point did anyone close to the project say it was not coming out.  You made that assumption yourself.  I just don't get the disappointment, especially since you plan to still buy the album possibly in 2 forms.  I'd understand more if you said, screw it, I already have the leaks.  I'm thrilled as hell we're gonna get the album in our hands and get to hear the tracks finished, the way they were meant to be heard.  It's almost a relief in a way.

Well said.  I am not judging anyone - its between you and your God - but how can you justify complaining if you gave in?  I have only one thing to complain about - tomorrow is Oct.17th and not Nov. 23rd. :hihi:

I never said I was disappointed. I willingly chose to listen to the new music when it surfaced, but if anything it has kept me more interested in following the GNR news and now I'm more excited about the album than I might have been before. I personally wouldn't give a shit if the whole album was just the 8 or 9 songs that have already come out, whether live or leaks. I consider it a bonus that there'll be another 3 or 4 songs that are completely brand new.

On one hand you talk about the general public and on the other you talk about fans like yourself.

Make up your mind.

Yes, it's possible some casual fans thought the new material was great and went on Youtube looking for it.

So they heard other live versions. It's not really the same as listening to the album on your stereo....



I understand people wanting to hear new music.

That's not the point.

The point is some of you not taking any responsibility for the choices you made.

You chose to download and listen.


Nobody forced you no matter how much you claim otherwise.

The proof is the fact that many people here didn't make the same choice you did.



You chose to open the presents because you didn't know what day it would be ok to open them. It just wasn't enough to know that the day would come. You had to know when.

Now you're all upset because the date is almost here and you already ruined some of the surprises.

So you blame Santa Claus!




/jarmo

As I said before, I'm not condemning you for downloading the leaks.  I did it too, I couldn't wait to hear the music, and it was GREAT.  I'm thrilled I'll get to hear them how GNR intended them to be heard once the album is released next month.  But for you to say, I couldn't wait, I've already heard those songs Axl, come up with 11 songs I haven't heard please.  Do you see how that's a little ridiculous?

i never made the assumption it wasnt coming out, but common sense seems to dictate time was the enemy of the album's release. Hypothetically Axl is the one person who would never say it wasnt coming out. But i had read many what seemed to be reasonably informed sources, saying the album was dead (purported label execs, etc) on another board i had a sound engineer who worked on the album tell me Axl had nothing done vocally about 3 years ago...point being it's dishonest to say there were never any legitmate concerns that the album was dead.

of course i'm excited as hell for the album. I've waited longer for this than anything in my life and been through a lot directly for this band/ album, as my name will attest. And if he's actually got three albums canned, then we get two whole new albums. But from a marketing perspective, which is what my original posts were concerned with, it would seem to make sense to have the hyped comeback album be completely new, with the exception of the title track which obviously has to be on the album.

But the songs are new to most people....

November Rain or Don't Cry weren't new when they were released officially. It didn't stop them from becoming what they are today, classics.




/jarmo

Yes and no, being ignorant of what has actually been the fundamental reasons for such long periods of inactivity I can only imagine. Looking back over the last 8 years,excluding the live shows and some other brief periods, it seems most of the members of Guns N' Roses have kept themselves busy with their solo work have not been working on this album. So who knows where the the real story lies or when it will be told, if ever.
I have my own thoughts on such matters, I have a massive respect for Axl Rose and I feel a connection to him through his words, deeds and music. My own thoughts on what some of the personal matters are, that may have made this whole process slower to many people than what they would consider to be the norm, are  no more than my own thoughts and considerations.
There is no doubt in my mind that this is the greatest achievment in the history of Guns N'Roses, I cant imagine how many times Axl has pulled the plug and walked away, only to suck it up and struggle on.
The turning point for me, this is no word of a lie, was in 2006 to see Axl Rose looking so comfortable with himself, so happy,content and pleased to be where he was and with what he was doing.
Thats when I knew that one day he would release this album.  Prior to that he seemed a shadow of himself, he really did.

I think the day this album is released the weight of the world will be lifted from his shoulders and I am completely thrilled for him.

saying i lacked responsibility for my choice seems to be making a bit much out of this. The only thing ruined for me, one among the many die hards, is the initial reaction. This isnt like seeing half a movie before it comes out, because whereas i'll watch the movie once, twice, three times, i'll listen to great songs 100s or 1000s of times. So while it is my fault i wont have the initial excitement of hearing completely new stuff, that would only last a short while.

if you read what i initially said, my concern was with how this affects the marketing of the album and the reviews of it. My having listened to the leaks is of no concern either way to the reviewer who has when he writes his coloumn. That they exist at all is the focus, because his job isnt to promote GnR, it's to report on GnR. And his reporting will reflect the lack of an initial, complete reaction.

as an aside, have you, Jarmo, listened to If the World prior to the movie, or Catcher in the Rye or the other non-sanctioned (lets be honest) leaks? And if not, at what point would you have listened to them?

Exactly, we kind of get blinded some time and think that EVERYONE in the world knows about the 9 songs leaked earlier this year, and EVERYONE went searching for those songs and downloaded them.  The only people to do that were the hardcore fans from these boards.  People may know a little about the saga, but "Joe Plumber" (sorry John McCain) isn't at home saying how lame it is that the album is gonna contain 11 tracks that he COULD'VE already heard.  Just yesterday someone came on this board and posted in the Body of Lies thread that he went to see the movie and thought he heard Axl singing at the end of the movie so he came to this site to find out if it was true.  I was shocked he didn't already know, but some, no LOTS of people who are gonna buy the album know very little of what has gone on over the last nine years.  You've got to take that into perspective.  We are crazy addicted fans, for better or worse.  We know the ins and outs, others don't.

obviously i'm expressing a selfish concern...again, i will direct to my initial post here which was about the marketing of an album which has for all intents and purposes already been 75% released.

Oh Lord, I hope we get an update ASAP so we can end all this debating over leak ethics.   ::)

There you have it.

Now please move on.



/jarmo

Have what Jarmo?

That tells me nothing. Its a long winded way of reaffirming the fact that we dont know anything without revealing anything whatsoever.

This is sooooo pointless....Mysteron where are you?!

in 1991 there were like 3 rock music magazines and the only way you knew of Rock in Rio is if you were there. Look how quickly this present news has spread about the release. The AM news only radio station where i live had a by line about Axl Rose finally releasing his album etc etc. The info is all over the place and is readily available for anyone. Does ayone think every review wont be something like "After 17 years and untold millions of dollars, Guns n Roses is finally releasing Chinese Democracy. The album contains 14 songs, 10 of which have been floating around the internet for months and in some cases up to 7 years...". The label is concerned about getting their money back, hence the exclusive deal, and now more than ever movies and album releases hinge on opening week numbers to generate buzz. With that in mind, i just think it's a poor marketing decision.

Why the hell do you need details? It's been a rocky road. Why isn't that enough for you?


Fucking amazing how you like to focus on this now.

During the most exciting days we've seen!

You have the release date, so you focus on "but it's not the songs I wanted" or "but it took too long".

You probably said that it took too long five years ago. Leave those comments in 2003.




Who do you make music for then?

The fucking reviewers or yourself?

Honestly.


If you should be angry at somebody, it's the people who decided to put these songs online.

They ruined it for you, they fucked up things for the band, they ruined it for the people marketing the album (as you put it) and so on.

But you're not doing that. You're just pointing out how the songs were leaked and how the band shouldn't have released their music based on that.

You're not angry at the car thief, you're angry at the car owner.





/jarmo

Poor marketing? How so?  The marketing of the this album has only begun with the Best Buy deal.  I am floored by all this negative drivel by these people who are disappointed that all the songs some of us have already heard are indeed shockingly a majority of the songs on the album. MOST of the world has NOT heard these songs.  There great songs, enjoy them.  I am so pleased that the good songs I heard are gonna be heard on the album and they were not put aside because they were not "fresh" to bunch of die hards who wont be happy anyways..   I mean if 6 of the leaks were not on 14 song tracklist... This entire thread would be about "Where did all the songs we been hearing go?"   This is rediculous

the album isn't released yet and people are saying shits about marketing and setlist?  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

this is hilarious.
people bitching about stuff they aren't even sure about yet!

we won't know anything until an official release. it would be nice if the track list was true on Best Buy, but who knows...it could be a ploy by Best Buy to screw with fanatical GNR fans that will go crazy at the littlest thing (...think it's working? :hihi: )

Mysteron said at the earliest an announcement would be Thursday, today. give it some time, RELAX, and let things play out people.

if you have some pro and contra arguments, trying to see things not only in black and white, there's not much space here sometimes. it's a bit sad, that these discussions always get so polarising and personal.
 

I can't believe some of the negativity on this board...well i can because it is nothing new...Im not talking about the majority of you, but a small minority...THIS IS A GREAT DAY...A FUCKING TRACKLIST FOR SOMETHING WE HAVE WAITED OVER A DECADE FOR!!!  So what if you have heard a good portion of the songs? They are great songs!  And I have heard most of them and I am  more excited now then I ever was...for those of you complaining Bumblefoot even said alot of what you heard were not finished versions...How could anyone be complaining today?

Even if you heard some/most of the songs, they were incomplete unfinished versions. Now you will get to hear finished mastered and mixed versions.  : ok:

exactly...having some songs downloaded off the internet means nothing to me...I care about things like the album cover, the artwork, liner notes, song order and the whole package that is album....Thats what I care about...the fact that I have had a few of these songs downloaded for a while means NOTHING to me...im still buying every version there is...

Even if you don't consider reworked vocals, extra guitar parts, string additions etc, there is going to be a big different just in the way the sounds sound with proper mixing etc.

For instance, the difference between the leaked version of "If the World" and the final version as it was heard in the movie.

There are no major changes to the song itself from what I've heard (apart from a new guitar lead going into a chorus), but the drums are much heavier, the bass line is more defined and together with the drums drives the song with a killer groove. Pitman's synth/strings also don't sound so flat - it gives the song a fuckin epic, cinematic feel. And of course, Axl's vocals lead the song, strong and clear in the mix.

You might have heard this song hundred times already but when I heard it during the film I was blown away all over again.

Yea, I cant wait to see the liner notes, cover art, and all that has to do with CD

Agreed!  I'm excited for the rest of the world to be exposed to what many of us already know.  

I'm curious why Axl changed the name from The Blues to Street of Dreams.  If I heard that song on the radio I'd assume it was called The Blues and would look it up under The Blues.  The average person may hear it, like it, but not realize that Street of Dreams is that song.  

You will be able to walk into a store and buy Chinese Democracy.

That alone should generate enough excitement for quite a while for GN'R fans.






/jarmo

There are actually a whole album of new songs. Now if you had done what Axl and the band wished and not downloaded the leaks like some of us then you would be just as excited as us.

**ends father mode**

It's like faldors been saying all day; people wanted to hear new music on the tours, people wanted songs to leak. Now they don't want the album to contain anything they've heard. Strange.

you are totally right. catcher and better for example: im looking forward to hearing these songs in their final versions. they are nothing but stunning and have the potential to become classics. like the songs you mentioned. it doesn't matter if you already heard them (and most people haven't). you will probably love em more when you get them in a proper version. but i think that some people - and that's because they know the demos - are a little disappointed that axl (after all those years) also chose some songs that might not be at that great level (e.g. riad, irs).

It's more than enough for me. I can't wait to plop down $20 and get the album and some change.

Sheesh! So I take it you have only heard the songs live, when you went to a gig. You don't have them downloaded at all? That would mean you've heard LIVE versions only and then only a couple of times each AT THE MOST. You should be PUMPED to hear them over and over again in high quality.

"You try and hold me down
With your complaints
You cry and moan and complain
You whine an tear"

Man, we're beyond crazy, we're borderline esquizofrenic...

How come we spend 10 years or more demanding, asking, begging for news and when they come we bitch about the very news we've been asking for?!

Those who think the CD is full of "known" songs don't see two things: every band perform new songs live before they release them on an album and, yes, shit (or leaks) happens to almost every band.

I, for one, am glad that I could see my favourite band live on RIR 3, where not only they performed the classic songs which I loved and made me a fan in the first place, but also brand new songs from an album I was and I would expect for years to come.

Those brand new songs transformed me from a huge fan to a follower.

And since then I've been seeking for every single piece of news and information from this band, avid for words such as "RELEASE DATE", "COVER ART", "TRACKLIST".

And now, here they are. At last. And I'm happy.

And above it all, I'm happy that I'll hear those songs I've heard live in 2001, or on youtube videos of other shows, or in the end credits of a movie, or on a videogame, all at once, and with the certainty that this time I'm gonna hear it the way the band wanted me to hear it. The way they spent years perfecting it to be the best piece of work they could make.

And, man, I'm really looking forward to it.

: : Vicente : :

So the Rubber in your wallet has passed its used by date, buy another in-case that hot chick you've had your eye on decide to say "go to town" - your GNR song virginity is always broken the first time you hear it, will it stop your hearing it again? not if you are anything like me you won't.

Its abit like getting laid with somebody new, it won't be the same as the last bird. I don't regret listening to leaks, are they the finished article? Better, Maddy et al you've heard live won't be anything close to an album. The quality with the real deal will also be better.

Still there's always the next album to look to, in "saving yourself for" if you don't like your experience this time round, be strong, restrain yourself next time, and look forward to using a wallet full of rubbers next time.

Can't believe some people are bitching.  ::)

Anyway, looking forward to hearing the album.  Because songs can be good, but it's the album, as a whole, that is a true work of art.  All the songs, in an order designed to take you from one experience to another.  :drool:  That's where the real joy of it is.

We haven't heard the real versions of any of the songs except for Shackler's, and 90 seconds of If The World

If The World in the movie sounded pristine.  I can't wait to hear the songs the way they are meant to be heard.  For example I think IRS on the album is going to capture the raw, massive sound of it live.  These songs all have so many layers and nuances that, as great as they are, they can't be fully appreciated until you hear the final product

People are going to complain if the booklet is made of recycled materials.

I'm pretty pumped that "Catcher" is on there. I was disappointed by a false report a while back with a tracklisting where it wasn't mentioned.

yeah, i know quite how you feel. catcher is maybe my all time gnr favorite...

Same here.

I'm completely satisfied with the track-listing, there are some amazing songs on there. It just seems weird how it looks to have been quickly thrown together, with the spelling errors and whatnot. Weird. For what it's worth, I TOTALLY think 'Madagascar' should close out the album, though. I think it would if this were a concept album  ;)

posted on billboard.com
http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003874830

and a blood curdling Axl scream doesn't open my leak of the song "Chinese Democracy", so maybe they are very different versions.

I am at a loss for words I'm so fucking happy.   :love:  So many years.  I think I'm most happy for Axl...November is going to be unreal!!!   :beer:

THIRDED. "Catcher" is right there with "Estranged" and "Rocket Queen" on my best of the best of the best list. Absolutely phenomenal song.: ok:

November is set to be a kick ass month for me, new president to make fun of, Metallica concert :headbanger: and CHINESE DEMOCRACY :headbanger: x5

:peace:

of course you make music for yourself, but froma label point of view they have to worry about things like this. There's no point being mad at the leaker at this point because it cant be undone, which is why i think they should have tried to maneuver around it.

It's not there for me, but I believe TWAT can hold it's own with the classics.

What i think is interesting and great is that even us hard core fans have differing opinions on all the songs. Some say that catcher is among GNR's greatest songs, and then others say they disagree but think TWAT is among GNR's greatest. Ive also heard many say this about better, the blue, maddy, and so on.  : ok:

Basically im saying that there is probably gonna be something on this album for everyone to like.

I definitely look forward to finished versions of these songs.


I haven't listened to them in a very very long time, so they are once again going to be very fresh to me when I do listen.

Its gonna be difficult calling The Blues something different.


I really hope they changed "Street of Dreams" back to more of the RIR3 version. I don't want to sound bitchy or whiny, but RIR3's version to this day ranks up there with Estranged for me as far as emotion etc.

The 2002-2006 versions didnt for some reason. I can't put my finger on exactly what is different............. it seems slower maybe? less guitar?? The way Axl sings the part at the end after the last "All in Memories"

I loved at RIR3 how he did the screams

seems he changed them and they don't hit my heart the same way as they do at RIR3.

but anyhow I look forward to seeing some of u guys at GNR shows

Im praying they come somewhere remotely close to me

SO GNR, Atlanta or Nashville, or even Cincinnati Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i get, in chrono order Chris Cornell live, the orchestra in my city is playing all 9 Beethoven symphonies in order in late Nov, Chinese Democracy, then Metallica in concert... : ok:

even know i heard all the leaks it great there going be on the album and i can not wait hear the studio version of the songs we heard and the new songs  ;D

You don't think the fact that FBI agents were arresting that guy proved anything?


Maybe they believe that once people hear the real deal, it'll work out?




Funny how forgiving you can be.


Were you ever upset at those people because of what they caused you? They ruined your special day...... You didn't have much of a choice, you had to listen. They basically made you.



You're worried about marketing issues that are the direct result of the leaking of music before its release.

So your worries are caused by these individuals.

Maybe you should take it up with them and tell them how you feel? How you think they're fucking things up for the record companies and artists who want to be able to decide when the music should be heard and not have leaks affect their marketing work?





/jarmo

TWAT is the stuff of legend

The real name for The blues is: OK NEVERMIND  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Two points that seem fairly obvious to me:

1) Anybody who is surprised that the leaks take up most of CD should go back and retake Understanding the Obvious 101.

2) Anybody who is more disappointed than excited over the recent spate of information is categorically not a Guns N' Roses fan.

Questions?

 :beer:

So this was neither confirmed or denied today, correct?

Correct.  Still waitin' on word from Mysteron, management, gunsnroses.com, or The Man himself.

ok, nevermind ;)

Why are you so aggressive? I left my thoughts on the topic and you leap on the defensive and start shouting me down, you have no right to tell me or anyone what to think. I'm not focusing on one issue or any another, theres a big picture with lots of components and I'm trying to look at all of them.

This is a huge event, I'm very excited about it: excited about the next tour, excited to hear from Axl sometime soon, excited to hear new songs, excited to hear the album the way it should be heard, excited about a new single and video.... I'm excited. Theres nothing wrong with saying "hmmmm... I wonder why it took so long?"

seems that they changed the tracklist:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9111043&st=chinese+democracy&lp=3&type=product&cp=1&id=1925068 (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9111043&st=chinese+democracy&lp=3&type=product&cp=1&id=1925068)

thats the final tracklist

yeah, that's what I think...


1. Chinese Democracy
2. Shackler's Revenge
3. Better
4. Street Of Dreams
5. If The World
6. There Was A Time
7. Catcher N' The Rye
8. Scraped
9. Riad N' The Bedouins
10. Sorry
11. I.R.S.
12. Madagascar
13. This I Love
14. Prostitute

That looks much better :)

Thats a killer album, IRS looks like the last rocker. Seems like the last 3 songs are a very deep and thoughtful which is nice.

I wonder if Riad will have changed much from the original performances, it had a lot of potential.

I guess they learned how to spell bedouins!  :rofl:

Catcher N' the rye?  ::)

funny thing is , I love it when he says it  ;D it flows so well with the song at first I thought they were lyrics.

 ;D

I'm not sure that this is the real tracklist, it could be made up by the record company to avoid further downloading. There is only one 'new' name on that tracklist.
I would be surprised if weaker songs like I.R.S and Riad would end up on CD.

1. Chinese Democracy
2. Shackler's Revenge
3. Better
4. Street Of Dreams
5. If The World
6. There Was A Time
7. Catcher N' The Rye
8. Scraped
9. Riad N' The Bedouins
10. Sorry
11. I.R.S.
12. Madagascar
13. This I Love
14. Prostitute

Ah, that looks better.

The sequence of the first five songs is pretty much how I've had them set up myself. Start off with two hard rockers, go into something more melodic, then take it down a little bit more with "The Blues" leading into the funk/soul/pop of "If the World".

I always thought that "There Was A Time" would be the perfect album closer, but I can see now that it would be the closer to the first half/first side of the album.

I like this sequence much than other tracklist.

It's gonna be a GREAT N' KILLER ALBUM

I wonder why the setlist got changed?

J? any comments?

Because the first was in the wrong order and with titles spelled wrong.

last three songs, madasgascar, this i love, prosititue,   sounds like something along the lines of  DC,NR, Estranged.  Anyone else feel thay way???

Yes. Big expectations from This I Love then  : ok:

Tell me about it Jarmo.

As I have always said though, a lot of people just moan for the sake of moaning!!

Just be happy people. In fact be very happy! I know I am.

Does it really matter what the tracklisting is? It will be what the band have decided and that is good enough for me. Surely it is for all the fans?

Mike

For me that has heard all leaks it's more of a new beginning now.

GunsN'Roses is coming out again and intend to release new music.
There will be more albums after this one which is already completed according to Axl :peace:

Whats important is that they're back in action with a new album :beer:

For you, I.R.S. is weak.  For me, it's one of my favorites.  That's why a random fan doesn't choose which songs should/shouldn't be on an album.  I know a lot of people on this board aren't big on I.R.S. but I remember one of the magazine's that reviewed the tracks listed I.R.S. as the best and something that they could've sneaked in on the UYI's and no one would've noticed it was by the new lineup.

I totally agree with you. There's still a mistake here, I mean: Catcher N' The Rye is like Catcher and the Rye, as the title of the book is The Catcher in the Rye.

These guys are justing messing up, the definitive tracklist will be released by the band only.

Maybe Salinger wouldn't let them use Cather IN the Rye, so they dropped the "I".  Not sure if that would be enough of a difference to avoid litigation though.

because the first one was incorrect, I guess

And for me, Rhiad (or Riad) is among the best of the new ones, along with Better and TWAT. But I agree, IRS is a fucking killer song, especially the live version. :)

Two things: "N'" makes it more GN'R style and avoids copyright problems. I guess.

They should've really dragged this out and list ONE song a day, starting from the top, then Axl makes an official announcement after the 14th track is announced.

That would be a fuckin' clash of titans in a court of justice, W. Axl Rose versus J.D. Salinger. "Catcher" is by far my favourite new GNR song. I hope Brian May's guitar is still on it, it would add a lot of class to the album! 8)

Good point, Guns N' Roses, Dust N' Bones, Rhiad N' The Bedouins, Catcher N' The Rye.  Still not sure if that's enough of a difference to appease J.D. Salinger though.

Shouldn't it be Catcher 'n the Rye, the ' replaces a letter Otherwise it would be Catcher NA, NE, NI, NU, NO the Rye?

I'm just wondering if the sequence is correct.

They could title every thing "Song 1" "Song 2" etc for all I care.

?hmm What happened to MOTHERMOUTH ?
That one was listed on one of the first track liste that appeared on best buy , wasn't it ?

Maybe we are in for a two disc release CHinese Democrazy I & II, simillar to what happened in 1991 ?
Or cover a and B contain the same songs with some exceptions ????

 :love: ???

It wasn't on the first on best buy. All the tracks are the same, different order and spellings.

thanks for clarification ! : ok:

Wait - the tracklist changed?  I can't believe it!  I never saw that happening.   ::)

I have class from 12-2, I better see an announcement about CD when I get back!

Oh and I like this tracklist, I quit listening to the leaks about 5 days ago, so this cd will kick ass when I get it.

only the order, it's the same songs and it was only like 2-3 songs switchin' places

The sequence of songs now looks pretty good - I might have put TWAT a little later in the sequence because it is so epic that it seems better placed toward the end.   As someone mentioned, it would have been a great closer of Side 1 on an LP (or cassette), back in the old days.  With CDs and Itunes, we have sort of lost the ability to get as much of a flow going. 

Still, lots of epic tracks on here.   

By the way, I always thought Rhiad was a VERY weak song, until I heard the (apparently) final mastered version, and it sounds really great.  Same with Chinese Democracy -- the live versions are hard to sing and it is hard to capture the punch that they deliver in a studio setting.  I think the album will have a real nice balance of "rockers" and epics.

I agree. We know Axl likes to get pissed and rock out some of the time, but we all know how he loves the "epic" tracks now. I love both, so I'm very excited for this...

I know.  My point is that I posted that there was speculation this was incorrect a couple of days ago.  With the horrible spelling, it was obvious that someone jumped the gun. 

Hmmm...
(http://filmfanatic.org/reviews/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/Gulch.JPG)
(http://images.bestbuy.com/BestBuy_US/en_US/images/musicmoviegame/pdpimages/9111016.gif)

The next 4-5 weeks shall be exciting (website updates, interviews, questions answered, a single, THE ALBUM, etc.).

 8)

why should we trust this tracklist knowing that the last one was wrong ?

I don't remember very well, but wasn't catcher going to be on the second or third album ? and wasn't rhiad going to be a b-side...

I vaguely remember reading something about it somewhere.

hmmm...shackler's in the 2 spot? Was hoping they'd bury that at the end or leave it off altogether. Oh well, looks like I'll be skipping tracks 1 and 2. Cant wait to hear the finished version of catcher in the rye. Brian May is nasty.

Checkout my post here http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=53264.1780 (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=53264.1780) there are changes to the tracklisting on some of the pages.

-Larry

CD and Shackler's can make together one of the most aggresive and outstanding startings of a rock album in history and you're gonna skip them?  ???

when you think you've seen it all in the GNR world, something like this appears...

Check out the main page!! I guess it must be official as Jarmo NEVER posts rumors.  ;D : ok:

this is cool. catcher after twat. pretty daring, but i love that! first 4 tracks... excellent order.

 
Credible rumour/assumption still ;)

This is existing, am curious how all the unheard songs will be like. I love SE :peace:

http://www.brianmay.com/brian/briannews/briannewsoct08.html#04

Brian May posted the news in his official website.

I guess the intern/person for Best Buy put the names of the songs up real quick and didn't worry about spell checking them.  I think it might change again....

But he makes it clear that is according to Best Buy. He's the first one to say the will only be official when it comes from GNR.

Well I'm happy for you that you'll enjoy them, but it's your opinion. In my opinion Shackler's is a train wreck and the worst thing Axl has ever attached his name to. Chinese doesn't bother me, just doesn't do anything for me. Music is eh, and lyrics are weak.

my track listing for the past few months has been:

1. chinese democracy
2. oh my god
3. better
4. street of dreams
5. there was a time
6. riad 'n the bediuons
7. irs
8. catcher 'n the rye
9. prostitute
10. madagascar
11. shacklers revenge
12. if the world

i noticed that what they have is close, if not in song order, at least in feel.

give it a listen, it flows pretty nicely. let me know what you think.

Thats cool, he played on Cather, maybe it will be on the album?

I like that. I'd prefer yours, with OMG 2nd as opposed to Shackler's. Maybe I'll shuffle the songs, remix by kunzerd.

What are you talking about?  Jarmo?  I just posted what I found on Best Buy's site.  There are different track listings if you check the different links.

im waiting to hear the whole album to hear where the new songs fit in, but yeah, im also considering shifting the tracklisting on my ipod to fit how i have it currently. i just thing the tail end epicness of prostitute and madagascar works well, then shacklers gets me pumped up, then if the world does a great job of winding me down. it really caps off the experience nicely.

Deleted all the leaked demos yesterday. Waiting for the real stuff now.  : ok:

Does that tracklist include all of the songs that leaked? I remember reading about another new song apart from If The World - was it Message For You?

What is funny is that all of the July leaks, those are the finished versions.

So I don't know why people think we're going to get something new on the real CD.

The 9 song leak, and Shackler's Revenge, those are the real things...

the over 4 songs, no clue.

OMFG!!  :o :o :o

(this is all I can say... for now)

The July leaks aren't finished.

New song #2/Message for you = Prostitute.

leaks weren't finished. songs we haven't heard are: scraped, sorry and this i love.

Well, we believe Message For You is Prostitute, but remember on that website it said every song had leaked except "Scraped", "Sorry" and "Prostitute"

so does that mean Message for You could be "This I Love?"

No, they aren't.  If The World played in Body of Lies and at the Best Buy convention is different that it was in the leak.
 
The version of Chinese they played at the convention has some very blatant new, heavy guitars during the verses that have never been there on the leaks

Ron even confirmed that the songs leaked in the summer were old demos from before he recorded with the band.  If you missed his quote, he states that he plays on every track.  He's not on those leaks.  So don't spread misinformation

The only "real" that have been heard so far are Shackler's in Rock Band and the 90 seconds of ITW in Body of Lies, both are different from the leaks

Jarmo is NOT saying the info is official.   He is CLEARLY stating that this is what is currently listed on the Best Buy site.  Unlike the other fan sites that are implying they have some kind of "inside" info when all they are really doing is taking what is already on the www and posting it as their own.


http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=1927

It's not, because Patti Hood who plays the harp on This I Love confirmed that it's not the same song

No they aren't If The World has a way different mix and there are glitches in those songs, hicups at the end ect.

Lol - after all these years, we get only three new songs on the album!!!

U cant make this stuff up!

Well that's what you get for downloading demos. I deleted all mine today, I expect the full versions to be a lot different anyways.

Exactly.  The other songs are only "old" to those of us who've heard the leaks.  It's the risk we all took by listening to them.  It's no one's fault that those songs aren't "new" but our own.  To complain and/or blame the band for that is ridiculous.

Ali

No. It has taken all these years, and you think the leaks from July weren't finished songs?

I know there's no way to tell for sure, but IMO those are the done tracks.

So most of us have 10 of the 14 tracks off chinese democ.

It's just the truth! I mean how long could you rework a song for?

This is what kills me. Yeah we listened to the leaks, our fault. I get that.

Why... just why did most of us succomb to listening to the leaks?

think...

some more...

Probably because this album took a fucking decade to come out. Makes sense? Yea...

So? It took 10 years, but does that give you any right to do it?

Lots of people downloaded, I did. But we don't have any right to complain about the tracklist, because they didn't worked in all those amazing songs we heard just for some of us. It's just not fair to demand such a thing.

Anyways, it's getting tired. It should be a Frustration Tracklist Thread for that.

Just listen to Chinese Democracy from the Best Buy event (or from any 2007 shows) - straight drums and fretless. There's no such a thing on the July demo.

Agreed.

Plus, Its not like we will have to wait 14 years for the follow up. Hell the follow up could come Spring/summer 2010.

so.... what would you take..

a long ass press release that takes 8 minutes to read or a press release saying:

"Ever been in an earthquake motherfuckers?

Chinese democracy starts now!"

i'd take the longass motherfucker, and i think it will be one like the personal letter from late 06 early 07

There are numerous ways to know for sure.  One is to go see Body of Lies and listen to If The World, it is different from the leak.  Another is to hear the footage from the Best Buy convention, where Chinese Democracy has new, heavy guitars during the verses that have never been on any leak.  Another way is to listen to Ron.  He stated that the songs that leaked in the summer were old demos that are from before he joined the band.  He also said that he plays on every track on the album including a lot of solos, and is clearly not present on any of the songs leaked in the summer.  And finally, there are numerous additions that were made on the 2006/2007 tour (e.g. the drum fill before the outro on The Blues, some of the rhythm guitar on IRS) that are not on the leaks.  They are not final versions.  They are not fully mixed and mastered, that is blatantly obvious if you watch Body of Lies and hear If The World

I'm not complaining.

I just think that the leaked songs from July are the ones that will be on C.D.

it was just 3 months ago people.

I think they are current.

So we have most of the album now. THat is all i'm saying. I love the tracklisting!

I'm not sure about the logic behind this.  1999 versions of IRS, TWAT and Catcher leaked in 2006.  Does that mean they were current? 

It's not even about opinions.  It's an indisputable fact, that can be verified by either listening to someone in the band who knows what's going on, or by listening to the versions of the songs in the movie and at the convention.  Those leaks are not final at all

Those who have somehow "obtained" the leaks knew the possibility of ruining any surprise, but at the same time we have been waiting what...17 years?  I can understand not only the impatience...but the feeling (mine included) that it would NEVER actually see the light of day.

I see both sides of the tracklist argument. Although I feel both the band and the fans are to blame, ultimately we the fans cant say anything. We downloaded the leaks and have listened to them non stop.

My only issue with the band is that they played the majority of the leaks on tour countless times. I just wish they never played the new songs until the album was ready and they were ready to get the ball rolling. I was always of the opinion that I rather see the album before any gnr tour. I have said that since day one. But there is nothing we can do about it now.

What I am going to try and do is not listen to the leaks from now till release day and I def will not be re arranging the order of the leaks to the official track list. I will also be listening to the album straight thru so that I can get a natural first impression of the songs we havnt heard..


btw the main reason I am pissed at the band is because they didnt rename "The Blues" to "Ok, Nevermind" ..lol how great of a title would that have been!

Although I love Rhiad I am dissapointed it made the cut. I always thought it should be on a follow up and not this album. I could do without IRS as well...I think its an ok song but maybe the studio version will change my opinion.

Above all I am really looking foward to the album as a whole. The songs we have heard are amazing and I still listen to them non stop after all of these years. Out of the old songs I am anxious to hear CITR and TWAT studio versions. I think the other old songs will pretty much sound like what we have.


Cant wait!!! Soon IS the word!

I think people kid themselves a little with thinking new versions are going to be different.

sure, there may be some guitar here and there, a drum fill here and there, a backing vocal

but you've heard the main riffs, vocals, lyrics and melodies.

If you hated IRS back in 2004 or whenever Trunk/Piazza leaked it, u will probably still hate it in 2008.

I am very excited about a proper version of Catcher in the Rye.

Amazing song.