Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Does that mean that there a two solos on that song (from both Slash and Bumblefoot) or just one solo from Slash?

I see zero reason to keep Bumblefoot on there now.

I think its possible. They kept Bucketheads and Robins guitar solos too when they left the band.

They also were the ones that created it though.

In my opinion, Bumblefoot was only shoehorned onto CD stuff to give the appearance of collaboration.  So you could shut down the taunt he was just a hired hand.

Well, now he's gone, n'er to return.  So I don't see why we have to keep playing pretend.  He was just a hired hand.  We can say it out loud now.

Did I miss something or are we talking hypotheticals here?

There was a rumor that Slash has contributed a solo on that song.

Where did it come from?


EDIT: Ah, I just saw it came from MSL.

I agree with DX here... if Slash is recording these songs, he is rerecording the lead guitar tracks from scratch. I can't see Bucket, Robin, or the other two sticking around. I would guess that only Richards rhythm work will remain.

If you are going to release something under this lineup drop all parts from  Bucket, Robin, Ron, DJ, Tommy, Brain, and anyone else that is no longer here. I think the power of Slash and Duff help legitimize things in the eyes of the label so we are less likely to see an overly layered track that people make Axl continually rework... I would also look to cut Harp arraignments and any of the BS orchestra stuff that muddied up some of the CD songs, but let Dizzy and Chris (if still there) fill in gaps where needed.

Are you serious? Buckethead, Robin, Tommy, Brain and the others helped to create those songs. It would be disrespectful to erase their parts.

No, I agree with you on this point.  For the reason you say, they created this material.  Totally agree.

But I don't feel that extends to Ron, or DJ, for that matter.  People got their panties in a bunch anytime they were referred to as hired hands.  That those years were not a band in the true sense, but rather a touring band for play songs for Axl to sing. 

I'm just asking if we have to keep that up.  Even while they were there, several of us pointed out they were never involved in creating, writing, or recording anything of note.  Now that they are gone...and never created, wrote, or recorded anything of note...can't we just say what it is with those two?

Do we need to keep up that charade?  I say no.

Very serious... If Slash and Duff record parts, re-record all of it. We already got an album with songs that had as many as 5 guitar players on the track... either release whats in the vault as is, or make it the band as currently constituted, but don't add Slash as the 6th guitarist to a song with 12-15 year old Bucket tracks. They cut all of Josh's parts for Brain (he re-recorded it beat for beat) so why not do the same here? Paul, Bucket, and Robin have been gone for 15, 12, and 8 years respectively, and each chose to do it.

Do we know that the song has two solos? I may have missed something here.

Bumblefoot has talked about that song in the past

Oh ok, thanks. I'll search for some more info. :)

"Atlas Shrugged, I was going to tell a little story about that song. Right now on my laptop, I actually have the old guitar solo that I played for that song, when, two days before the album was going to be mastered, I was like, let's see if we can squeeze it on to the album. I busted out some guitar tracks for it, I have my own studio...
But, because the CD could only be 74 minutes max, and it would've taken it past the limit of what a CD can store, we couldn't put Atlas Shrugged on Chinese Democracy. It wasn't worth making a two-CD album with just one song on the other CD, so hopefully, on ChiDem 2, it'll have Atlas Shrugged on there. Interesting song." (Bumblefoot, Eat More Heat, March 2013)
http://www.gnrevolution.com/song.php?pid=253206#p253206

Thanks. This one I remember, I may have actually watched the streaming live by that time. But I didn't find info about two solos and Buckethead being on it.

Outside of Axl, Dizzy, Stinson and Finck... they were all hired hands to me.

bumble and ashba were just hired guitar players, yeah Bucket played on the album too, but he was way too isolated from the band to be considered part of it in whole.

So that's that.

I disagree. This is Axl's machine. He wrote the words for it in some way, either as solo writer or a co-writer. He "owns" the name right boys?

We all love that aspect of him owning the name right? So he can do whatever he wants right...?  :hihi:

For a song that's been in the bucket for going on 17 years now... does it really matter if its being re-recorded by the original/main (save it on Tracii) guitarist?

I'm sure SLash will put his own spin on the track anyways. He's not going to be playing "someone" else's riff that's for sure.

Over the last 16 years... other people mostly have been playing Slash's riffs and Izzy's riffs...

Like I said... that's that.

Yes, at concerts and sessions. They didn't replaced Slashs guitar work on unreleased studio tracks. There is a difference

They actually did something similar when Axl had them re-record Appetite... we heard part of that during the credits of Big Daddy, and if Axl had his way we would have heard it during Black Hawk Down.

I talked about material from the unreleased 1995/1996 album. Nothing from that was used on Chinese Democracy.

What's the difference, they aren't releasing a new album... the speculation is that 1 or 2 songs would be on a Greatest Hits, I don't see how that is different than the CD era members re recording Slash, Duff, Izzy, and Steven's parts for a re-released album or a few soundtracks.

If this stuff is indeed going to be released, and if Slash has indeed added new guitar work to it, then the only reason to leave Ron's parts on there is if they really, really good.  If there's a truly amazing solo on there, and it happens to be Ron's, I would imagine it'll be left on it. 

There is no info of Buckethead being on the track. Brian May worked on CITR and Atlas, and then years later Ron.

Yeah, I now remember May's involvement. Thanks.

It's interesting. The official version is that Brian May was called in first because Axl was too attached to some of Robin's work when he left in 1999 and he thought about asking May because he knew it would be something as good or better. But then he replaced May with Bumblefoot for both Catcher and Atlas. He could have brought back Robin's work on those songs, but didn't want it for some reason. As much as love Robin, I think the real reason is that Axl wasn't satisfied with Robin's work on those tracks to begin with. We don't know if Bucket got involved on those songs either.

This is the reason why MSL may have thought about including Atlas in this rumor, if he made it up. Because it's possible that Axl would have thought about including Slash in Atlas. It's clear that the song had potential, but the lead work was somewhat troublesome. And who better to solve this problem than Slash?

Sorry, but who or what is MSL ?

Read the first post. Is the guy who originated the rumor the article is based on. Also, leaked some CD demos back in the day. And a major bullshitter.

First post doesnt lead me to the MLS thing?

Oh, I see, it was removed or something. Anyways, it is what I said: just some guy on the internet. Not really relevant to the discussion at all.

OK.

I never want to hear the re-recorded AFD. It would just be interesting, but bad. I'm sure the fans of Nu Gn'R would act like its better etc... you can copy something in a different "heavier" style and then think its better. The original will always win.

Just like Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven somewhat... those guys along with Axl make Gn'R what made it so great. Not a revolving door of average to good guitarists.

This is just a lazy argument. Not always the original is better. I much prefer GNR version of KOHD instead of the Dylan's original. Or much better, All Along The Watchtower from Hendrix is miles aways better than Dylan's original. And it's not because both are "heavier".

In the re-recorded AFD case, it's obviously a matter of taste. Or something else, because you already decided it is bad without hearing it.

I'm not even sure why this is relevant anyways. It was just for "rehearsals" or learning. I do believe Axl wanted to release it at some point, but it's clearly not the case since early 2000's. And since Slash and Duff is back, let's just move on.

Lazy argument? ANd you use 1 song covered that is better compared to the original? I'm talking about an entire album covered. That is different. You can't cover an entire album with 1 original member and it be deemed to be better?

You just can't do that. Because they are "covering" songs that were done with other people besides Axl. TOo many fucking liberals in this world.

Maybe you should read again, I used two. But I have some others, like GNR playing Sailing or The Beatles' early rocks (Twist and Shout, Roll Over Bethoven) or Johnny Cash's NIN cover Hurt. But I have a feeling it wouldn't work out because you would say it's just my personal preferences.

Also, I didn't say it would be better, I didn't hear it either. I was just poiting out your conception that "The original will always win". And all I said was: not always.

WTF was that? Just stop it and get back to what's actually been discussed.

If you consider the rerecorded AFD a set of covers then fine.
But in this case one might argue that is not the case.

It feels wrong because of Axl's presence.

Its like Black Sabbath recording the early records with DIO.
That would be odd

I happen to like SCOM from Big Daddy with the ending played by Robin and Paul, I was one of the few who loved Robin's version of that solo. I feel I wouldn't like their take on WTTJ, tho, based on the live version. I don't care about who played what and how many went in and out before. As long as I like it, I see no harm. The original song is still there, it wouldn't hurt legacy like the Star Wars special editions.

Any re-recorded AFD would be met with instant pushback because we've been listening to the one we've come to know for 30 years.

Ozzy tried to pull this shit.  He re-mastered his back catalog, but has some of the guitar parts redone to avoid having to pay royalties to the people that did them.  The fans howled.

Yep, hello! Not everything is a liberal and "it's okay" world. Some things just don't need f'd with. I would listen to it, but considering its probably the 2nd or 3rd greatest album in 30 years, and definitely the #1 debut in the last 30 years... I just don't think you could touch it.

You would get new Gn'R players from the late 90s playing songs already perfected by original members. It would really just kill it for me. I mean what could they do? Have heavier guitars? and vocal effects? It's a joke.

I think you hate more liberals than the CD members. Just get over it. I will, as it's a waste of time trying to have a decent discussion in this thread.

I would like to hear this if it is ever made available...

From the Kurt Loder Interview:

Rose :
No, no, that's not true at all. In fact, actually, I have re-recorded "Appetite" and--

Loder :
You re-recorded "Appetite For Destruction?"

Rose :
Yes, I have.

Loder :
The whole album?

Rose :
Yes.

Loder :
Whoa.

Rose :
Well, with the exception of two songs, because we replaced those with "You Could Be Mine," and "Patience," and why do that? Well, we had to rehearse them anyway to be able to perform them live again, and there were a lot of recording techniques and certain subtle styles and drum fills and things like that that are kind of '80s signatures that subtly could use a little sprucing up... a little less reverb and a little less double bass and things like that.

Loder :
Who are the musicians who have re-recorded "Appetite?"

Rose :
Josh Freese on drums, Tommy Stinson on bass, Paul Tobias on guitar -- you guys know him as Paul Huge, that's how it's been written everywhere. It's Paul Tobias on guitar, and Robin Finck was on lead guitar, but that... that will stay on some of it. Robin's guitar will stay on some, but not all. I don't know what I'm going to do with it, exactly, when I would be putting that out. But you know, it has a lot of energy. Learning the old Guns songs and getting them up, you know, putting them on tape, really forced everybody to get them up to the quality that they needed to be at. Once the energy was figured out by the new guys, how much energy was needed to get the songs right, then it really helped in the writing and recording process of the new record


http://www.w-axl-rose.com/Articles/Art_Axl_MTV_Nov_8_1999.html

Really?  You are talking like, 3 line-ups ago now.

If it ever becomes available I'd probably give it a spin out of curiosity, but unless it's totes amazeballs I would probably leave it at that.

Also, if we're bringing politics into it, I refuse to listen to it unless there is socialist cowbell and nationalist basslines. 

Yeah, I'd give it a listen for the curiosity factor.

Much like my 'The Roots Of Guns N' Roses' CD.  Which got played on my way home from the store that day, and then never again.

Yep...

I mean like I've said before. Nu Gn'R is cool, but when you have Slash/Izzy as guitarists...

and then you replaced it like this....

Izzy>Gilby>Paul (average) Huge>Richard
Slash>Finck>Ashba

Then on the side you need

Bucket>Thal

Just to keep it going... give me a break man.

When you replace the replacement of the replacement... things get stupid.

Time to move on Nu GnR fans. It's over.

Why do I need to move on?

I've followed GN'R since the day I discovered how amazing they were almost 30 years ago by now.
By your definition, I'm also a fan of "Nu GN'R".

So why do I need to move on? Move on to what?
It's all GN'R to me. You're the one with a limited point of view.

Maybe it's time you move on? We get it. You like to whine like there's no tomorrow. But it's fucking boring... Time to move on?





/jarmo

I agree.  But constantly rubbing their nose in it only going to get you pushback and fights.

Take your solace in the fact that the majority of the known universe agrees with you.  The people that want the replacement line-ups and their material to get their just due, they are never going to waver on that.  No more than you would ever waver on the notion they have a point. 

I rolled with it all, and got a few songs I really like.  But, I do feel we've entered a new era where we can stop playing pretend about it.

Yeah I know. I agree. Sorry boys.

Just so much dark years and so much drama for what ? 1 album? It's a fucking joke.

Then you've got these Nu Gn'R fans on here bitching about "CD II" who gives a fuck? Seriously? Right now I don't care about the unreleased CD II album.

I care about Slash and Duff with Axl/Rich and Frank. That sounds good to me. There's NU Gn'R fans hanging onto it all too. it's a 2 way street.

Move on to those that are stuck in the Nu Gn'R era, and actually forgot what a "great rock band" was.

This very thread is about Slash playing on a track that could very well be off that unreleased CD II you speak so lowly of. You don't care about that? Seems a bit odd.

No, I'm cool with them playing and "re-recording" the CD II stuff in their own way. I just don't really care about CD II coming out in it's current and apparently finished state while all this news is going on.

***HOT TAKE ALERT***

I'm not even sure its so much about the band itself, the NuGNR line-ups.

I think the years of squabbling on the internet amongst ourselves, its now become a war with other fans and posters.  It's all about saving face and never giving an inch.

You can predict who fights with who around here, no different than predicting the sunrise in the morning.  But its not just related to the band itself.  Its gotten to the point where people dug in.  They may have initially dug in about a legit topic, but its morphed into just strict opposition to anything that person says.

I know when I am scrolling through a thread, and I see a certain guy or gal has quoted my post, before I even read it, what will follow is fierce opposition to whatever I have said.  And not just me.  There are other feuds between posters where you can see the same thing play out, time and again.

You say up, they say down.  You say black, they say white.

I agree, I'm with you.

I'm just too passionate to not take a stance. I mean Old Guns N' Roses In my ever so humble and respectful opinion are just better than the duct taped feel of Nu Gn'R

I still have CD on Vinyl and cd. I still listen to it every now and again. For some odd reason I find myself burning the hell out of the UYI albums though.

I haven't really noticed those arguments taking place. I think the vast majority of us are looking forward to what the future holds and are excited by the prospects. Not sure what good it does condemning the last 15 years of the band and those who supported it.

not condemning it. I just don't want to see posts about Nu Gn'R stuff and CD II

Those posts have filtered out now, but it was pretty fucking annoying. Glad they've stopped for now.

I'm glad of what Gn'R did, the tours were great. Just wished they did more original music. We got 15 songs in 15+ years. Sucks.

Seriously?
You don't wanna see posts about certain things, but you keep repeating the same things over and over again.

Thanks for the laughs! :D




/jarmo

I'd still want to hear the CD II stuff.  It's not dependent on Slash and Duff touching it up.

I guess where I might get off the bus with some of you is this.  If CD II was dropped, as is, with no Slash and Duff...and they never acknowledged it, or even played one song off it live, ever...I would have no problem with that.

It's sort of the same thing I say about CD tunes in the setlists of the upcoming tour.  If they never played one of those songs again, I would shrug.  I know that puts me at odds with some folks, and that will be a bridge that is never crossed.

On balance, I think both side of this debate could do with some toning down.  People like me, Thorned Rose, or whoever that lean that way...we probably don't need to be so over the top about how its over, we're glad its over, and let's forget about it.

But...flipside...the people on the other side of this divide don't have to put up the fucking bat signal and climb up on the soapbox with the lecture to anyone that sees things that way.  But again, only if that opinion is expressed respectfully.

Is that fair to say?

What's pretty fucking annoying is your constant shitting on the guys who kept this fucking band alive while your hero wanted nothing to do with it.  : ok:

Well I had to deal with as many other did with this fucking biased Nu Gn'R up my ass, and no talk of Slash/Duff or Izzy was really allowed in the big boy board.

Now that the clowns in costumes are gone... I don't want to hear anything about Bucket/DJ/Robin/ (must I name them all lmao)

It's a 2 way street here right? Lets be fair and objective.

Thanks for the attempts. (at busting my balls, but you've missed widely)

Ok, that's it.

I gave you a chance.

You're obviously only here to stir shit up.

Posting privileges removed.




/jarmo

Just saying what no one else wants to say.

No one wants to hear about old Gn'R members since Slash/Duff etc weren't allowed at the dinner room table with daddy.

Your anti-hero wasn't wanting to record a fucking NIN record. Sorry.

He wanted an actual rock record. Since he was cry-childed into signing over the rights. he was fucked and left.

SO stop that line of vision.

hahaha i love people like you who have no idea what they are talking about.  :-*

You've got to be fucking kidding me? lol

Eh, who cares at this point, you know?

Both ways, I'm saying.  Being bitter about Slash or being bitter about Axl, and how each handled things.

It all worked out in the end, looks like.  At least, so far.  We got lucky.

You wish.

:wave:



/jarmo

I care and I really don't give a shit if no one else does. Those guys who you and others shit on wanted nothng more than to help keep the band going when the other "original" guys didnt give a fuck. They deserve respect for that.

I think "shit on" is a little much.  Certainly as it pertains to me, it is.

There are all sorts of posts about how so and so was an embarrassment to the band, or such and such sucked and had no talent.  Not going to find any of those penned by me though.

Are you equating me being ready to move on from them quickly and without much reservation as "shitting on them"? 

I think that's a tough label to hang, no?

Really? You are going to go with the innocent routine?

I may not post much anymore but I have been reading the board for a very long time. I know your posts so yes you do fit into the "shit on" group.

...as you define the term.

Such is life.  You are entitled to your opinion, as you see it.

Final (probably) thoughts re: the rerecording of AFD.

It's true that certain aspects of the sound of AFD sound dated now, but I don't think that's really a problem.  It's very much an album of its time.  It couldn't have been made other than when and how it was, it is a product of specific circumstances and a specific identifiable point in time.  The sound, including the now dated-sounding elements of it, is as much part of what makes that album so special as the lyrics, the guitar solos and the cross and skulls on the cover.  Re-recording would lose a lot of that.

And even then, the rerecording was done, when, late 1990s, early 2000s?  Is the industrial sound Axl is said to have been into at the time not equally pass? by now?  Or will be before too long, anyway.  But it would be dated and pass? without those elements also being an integral part of the album's genesis and legacy. 

Just my ?0.02.

I don't really get this thing on dated sound. When you listen to Beatles, Led Zeppelin and Jimi Hendrix, it's very clear you're listen to something very 60's and 70's. Does that makes them less good? Sure not. The same thing works for newer stuff. I still like late 90's stuff like Smashing Pumpkins. And even early 2000s like some Foo Fighters and QOTSA.

Like that other guy said: "too many liberals". :hihi:

Anyways, I tried many times to have a decent discussion here about music. Glad that can happen again.

Voodoochild makes a fair point.

Just last weekend, I was listening to the 'A Hard Day's Night' album on the putting green.  Its not like I was under some impression that came out 3 years ago.

Didn't mean 'Can't Buy Me Love' still doesn't sound good to me.

Exactly, when I have Zepplin cranked on a Friday Night, Im just enjoying the music, my mind is not on the fact it isn't a new release.

Good music has no expiration date.

Also, the AFD to me is one of the best sounds of the 80s. There's an article saying how it was the last great album mixed on analog stuff. And it does show how "warm" everything sound.

This is one of the things I think Axl was searching for when the first recordings of Chinese took place. Like when Brain used the old church or something to record his drums. But yeah, at the end of the day, it was all mixed in ProTools, so it didn't feel as "warm".