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Off Topic => Fun N' Games => Topic started by: pilferk on January 03, 2017, 03:11:01 PM



Title: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on January 03, 2017, 03:11:01 PM
Here's the new thread for the 2017 season!

Because it's Jan 3rd and pitchers and catchers report in about 5-6 weeks.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: Falcon on January 18, 2017, 07:13:37 PM
Raines, Pudge and Bagwell to the HOF with Hoffman and Vlad just short.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on January 19, 2017, 08:38:43 AM
Raines, Pudge and Bagwell to the HOF with Hoffman and Vlad just short.

Nice to see 2 all time Yankee greats  :P  ;)  and whoever that other guy is, get into the Hall!!

Seriously, though, Pudge's reaction to the call was just a  genuine, touching, moment in sports.  He was a such a great character guy, I'm glad he got in.

Raines might have been the only guy I ever saw, in his prime, as fast as Rickey Henderson.  By the time he joined the Yanks (you're welcome for those two WS rings), his body had broken down and his wheels were not what they were.  But while he was with the Expos...holy crap could that guy move! On the bases AND in the field.

Bagwell was a little bit of a surprise to me....not that he eventually made it in, but that he made it in with as high of a % as he did.  I figured he'd end up around 77% or so this vote.  86%, along with the big increases by Bonds and Clemens (and the fact that Pudge was in Canseco's book, I guess), seems to indicate the steroid stance might be softening (and yes, I know Bagwell's use was only rumored...but writers admitted it effected their vote those first few years).

Congrats to the HOF class of 2017!!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on January 19, 2017, 10:59:50 AM
I know he will be in next year ... but how do people not vote for Vladimir ?

Silly stuff


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: GeorgeSteele on January 19, 2017, 03:47:58 PM
I know he will be in next year ... but how do people not vote for Vladimir ?

Silly stuff

Agreed, Vlad was awesome.  In an era obsessed with on-base % and 15-pitch at-bats, you could always count on him to swing the bat, even hitting pitches bounced off the dirt.  A true hacker, might have been the last of his kind. 


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on January 19, 2017, 07:33:54 PM
I know he will be in next year ... but how do people not vote for Vladimir ?

Silly stuff

Victim of the 10 player limit, for sure!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on January 20, 2017, 12:44:57 AM
Some of thees guys better get in next year cause in 19 and 20 you got Yankee greats Rivera and Jeter and there's no way in hell they aren't first balloters.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: Falcon on January 20, 2017, 08:43:10 PM
Some of thees guys better get in next year cause in 19 and 20 you got Yankee greats Rivera and Jeter and there's no way in hell they aren't first balloters.

Vlad and Hoffman are locks next year on along with Chipper Jones and Jim Thome as first ball ballot guys.

The only effect the Jeter/Rivera inductions will have will be voters who keep them off their ballots for the sole purpose of trying to keep low % guys on the ballot knowing full well those 2 are getting in regardless of a couple lost votes here and there.



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: Falcon on January 20, 2017, 08:49:42 PM
Raines, Pudge and Bagwell to the HOF with Hoffman and Vlad just short.



Seriously, though, Pudge's reaction to the call was just a  genuine, touching, moment in sports.  He was a such a great character guy, I'm glad he got in.


Happy for Pudge too.

Couple of quick stories, I used to see him in the gym a few days a week when he played for the Tulsa Drillers (Texas' AA farm team at the time), he was built like a fire plug eve then and couldn't speak English just yet.

I was also at his wedding, along with about 5000 other people - he got married before a game at Driller Park!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: Falcon on January 22, 2017, 12:17:51 PM
Another one WAY too young has passed, the Royals Yordano Ventura gone at 25.

https://twitter.com/Royals/status/823215569583411200


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on January 23, 2017, 01:22:22 AM
Some of thees guys better get in next year cause in 19 and 20 you got Yankee greats Rivera and Jeter and there's no way in hell they aren't first balloters.

Vlad and Hoffman are locks next year on along with Chipper Jones and Jim Thome as first ball ballot guys.

The only effect the Jeter/Rivera inductions will have will be voters who keep them off their ballots for the sole purpose of trying to keep low % guys on the ballot knowing full well those 2 are getting in regardless of a couple lost votes here and there.


Hopefully all those get in next year. I don't know how many votes Rivera or Jeter will get but i'd hate to see one of those not make it in for another 3 years cause there's not enough votes to get them in. You know the vote total for Rivera and Jeter will be high.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on January 23, 2017, 08:02:12 AM
Another one WAY too young has passed, the Royals Yordano Ventura gone at 25.

https://twitter.com/Royals/status/823215569583411200

This is like the 4th or 5th DR car crash that has taken a young athlete in the past couple years. 

And one boat crash.

Somebody needs to do some Injury Prevention (and I'm not joking or being glib) with these young athletes around operating motor vehicles.  They're engaging in ridiculously risky behaviors, needlessly.  They do programs in the workplace for high risk populations....it might be time for MLB (especially...they seem to be hitting baseball players particularly hard) to take some action.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: Falcon on January 30, 2017, 02:13:19 PM
Cards get punishment for Astros hacking.

2 mil and their first 2 picks in the '17 draft to Houston.

Those 2 picks carry with them $1,853,200 in bonus pool allotment. Cards left with little over $2M for entire draft.

Former Cards scouting director Chris Correa who did the hacking has also been suspended for life from MLB.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on February 02, 2017, 07:12:53 AM
Twelve. Days. ;) !!!!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on February 02, 2017, 12:10:27 PM
Let's go Jays !

In airport.  On way to Vegas to watch the super bowl

Am going to bet the Jays to win it all

If there is a bet for the Yankees to blow and stink and be horrible I will put that one down as well cause that's sure moneyv


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on February 14, 2017, 07:35:36 AM
PITCHERS AND CATCHERS!!!!!!!! :)


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on February 14, 2017, 09:58:36 AM
Its back!  Time to start the road trip planning.  Spring fever is in the air


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: Falcon on February 21, 2017, 10:06:21 PM
MLB has now instituted the "Autowalk" for the 2017 season instead of the pitcher actually having to throw 4 balls to a batter on an intentional walk.

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2017/02/21/report-mlb-approves-new-rule-allowing-a-dugout-signal-for-an-intentional-walk/

 >:( :( ??? ::) :-[ :no: :rant:


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: faldor on February 22, 2017, 07:54:51 AM
MLB has now instituted the "Autowalk" for the 2017 season instead of the pitcher actually having to throw 4 balls to a batter on an intentional walk.

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2017/02/21/report-mlb-approves-new-rule-allowing-a-dugout-signal-for-an-intentional-walk/

 >:( :( ??? ::) :-[ :no: :rant:
At least that's the only change for now. That starting with a runner on second base in extra innings rule sounds utterly ridiculous to me. I hope they don't go there. The autowalk doesn't bother me so much. I mean, I don't think it'll save that much time and I think it's a bit Little Leaguish, but it could be worse.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on February 22, 2017, 09:11:51 AM
Yeah, I'm with faldor on the "no" to the runner on 2nd in extras. Thats lame.

I'm OK with the signal for intentional walks. It both speeds things up and saves pitches on the arms....both good things.

Apparently MLB is going to notify the union today that they are using the CB "nuclear option" to make unilateral changes including adding pitch clocks, modifying (or automating...which they won't do) the strike zone, and limiting visits to the mound.  This after negotiations with the union, which they'd hoped might bring changes THIS season, went nowhere.

I'm pretty much against the first 2...but I'm pretty sure a pitch clock is inevitable.  I'm totally fine with limiting MANAGER visits to the mound to a set number per game, with all other visits leading to a pitching change. It will be interesting to see if MLB includes a rule about CATCHER visits. If they do that, they better also crack down on sign stealing and the like, making those offenses punishable by outs on the bases, fines on the teams, etc.



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on February 22, 2017, 02:02:59 PM
Baseball is and always will be the sport nearest and dearest to my heart... but I will have a heart attack if they completely change the rules of baseball for extra innings.

I HATE what hockey does in overtime ... but this would make me sick beyond belief.


They are obsessed with making the game more fan friendly but at the same time they have record revenues and ticket sales, so I don't know what their deal is.



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on February 22, 2017, 02:25:01 PM
Baseball is and always will be the sport nearest and dearest to my heart... but I will have a heart attack if they completely change the rules of baseball for extra innings.

I HATE what hockey does in overtime ... but this would make me sick beyond belief.


They are obsessed with making the game more fan friendly but at the same time they have record revenues and ticket sales, so I don't know what their deal is.



I do.

It's not the actual fans that are doing all that much complaining.

It's the TV networks.

And since a good chunk of team and MLB revenue comes from broadcast rights of one sort or another, MLB is looking to kneel to their masters and try to get the games to a point they are AROUND 2 hours, with a faster pace.  Because the NETWORKS want to increase their ratings, and pull in more casual viewers, and they feel pace of game stunts that ability.

I DO think that some of the stuff that goes on is nuts. 2 minutes to get a pitch to the plate IS way too much, between all the kerfluffling in the box, and on the mound, and time outs/mound walks when the "other side" is taking too long to get ready.  It's annoying as fuck.

BUT, the answer is not a 30 second pitch clock.  It's "keep the batter in the box, and the pitcher on the mound" thing.  And you can make rules that will do that and NOT install a clock.

The issue with the strike zone is not it's size, it's it's complete lack of consistency, that fans hate. We don't want more runs...we just want the zone to be the same on each batter, from game to game(HELL, from inning to inning). I LIKE the human element behind the plate, but I think the humans you have doing the job (I'm looking at you Angel Hernandez and CB Bucknor) think they're a bigger part of the game than they are, and try to insinuate themselves into things, to get their face and name on TV, to stroke their own egos.  The strike zone, IMHO, isn't a game issue (the zone, as stated, is perfect), it's an officiating issue and MLB could very quickly, and very easily, solve it by actually DISCIPLINING BAD OFFICIATING and penalizing the showboaters.  It's not like they don't know who they are!!

And as for the trips to the mound...OK...on this one we agree (at least with the managers).  Late in games, it seems we're seeing 4 or 5 trips in an INNING (and, yes, pitching changes) and that's just nuts. They have to do SOMETHING to clean that up, because innings 7 - 9 take almost as long to play as innings 1-6, sometimes. But, again, if you do that, you have to provide some way to deal with sign stealing and the ability of a manager to relay actual strategic information to his pitcher without that mound visit. 

OK, rant over.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: GeorgeSteele on February 22, 2017, 02:33:17 PM

A lot can and should be done to speed up the game, but I think signals for intentional walks would be complete bullshit.  The climactic scene in Bad News Bears is when Kelly Leak rips the near inside-the-parker during an intentional walk.  That loses all meaning with this rule change!

Plus, the mere chance, albeit small, that a pitcher flubs an intentional walk pitch (sometimes it happens) while runners are on base makes for great theatre.  If I'm a fan of the hitting team, those moments are always a bit exciting, and if I'm a fan of the pitching team, I always have a small sense of dread in those moments.  Fun stuff!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: Falcon on February 22, 2017, 03:10:35 PM

A lot can and should be done to speed up the game, but I think signals for intentional walks would be complete bullshit.  The climactic scene in Bad News Bears is when Kelly Leak rips the near inside-the-parker during an intentional walk.  That loses all meaning with this rule change!

Plus, the mere chance, albeit small, that a pitcher flubs an intentional walk pitch (sometimes it happens) while runners are on base makes for great theatre.  If I'm a fan of the hitting team, those moments are always a bit exciting, and if I'm a fan of the pitching team, I always have a small sense of dread in those moments.  Fun stuff!

Agree on all points George, it's bullshit.

Punish sign stealing pilf?

For me, I love that stuff  - it's part of the fabric of the game.

As for the strike zone, I wish they'd go back to knees to letters - widen that fucker and get bats off shoulders and speed the game up at the same time.



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: Falcon on February 22, 2017, 03:17:58 PM
Even though it's a college game, this is why the 'autowalk" is just goofy:


https://twitter.com/tengland150/status/834455996869263360


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on February 22, 2017, 03:34:44 PM

A lot can and should be done to speed up the game, but I think signals for intentional walks would be complete bullshit.  The climactic scene in Bad News Bears is when Kelly Leak rips the near inside-the-parker during an intentional walk.  That loses all meaning with this rule change!

Plus, the mere chance, albeit small, that a pitcher flubs an intentional walk pitch (sometimes it happens) while runners are on base makes for great theatre.  If I'm a fan of the hitting team, those moments are always a bit exciting, and if I'm a fan of the pitching team, I always have a small sense of dread in those moments.  Fun stuff!

I enjoy long lasting games.  I hate it live though when they cut liquor service off after a set time frame (experience this is Denver during a hail storm), but watching at home its great.

There are lots of other faster passed sports out there, that that's what they are.    The human element is actually what makes it great.  No ties.  Play until your team can play no longer


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on February 23, 2017, 07:10:32 AM

A lot can and should be done to speed up the game, but I think signals for intentional walks would be complete bullshit.  The climactic scene in Bad News Bears is when Kelly Leak rips the near inside-the-parker during an intentional walk.  That loses all meaning with this rule change!

Plus, the mere chance, albeit small, that a pitcher flubs an intentional walk pitch (sometimes it happens) while runners are on base makes for great theatre.  If I'm a fan of the hitting team, those moments are always a bit exciting, and if I'm a fan of the pitching team, I always have a small sense of dread in those moments.  Fun stuff!

Agree on all points George, it's bullshit.

Punish sign stealing pilf?

For me, I love that stuff  - it's part of the fabric of the game.

As for the strike zone, I wish they'd go back to knees to letters - widen that fucker and get bats off shoulders and speed the game up at the same time.



...punish sign stealing IF they are going to limit visits (especially catcher visits) to the mound. Because otherwise, the defensive team has no recourse...they can't switch signs or manually call pitches.  You can't address just one side of that equation and not the other.

I like knees to numbers, too..but I'd take a strike zone that is applied the same way to every player, by every ump. So..if it's knees to numbers, it's knees to numbers (and over the plate and JUST the plate) on every player, for every pitch of every game. Not "just a bit outside" for Bucknor or "just a little low" for Hernandez...until the 4th inning, against the other teams best hitter, when it's a bit outside and high, but not low.

Again, it's more an officiating issue than a rules issue, IMHO.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on February 23, 2017, 07:27:20 AM
Even though it's a college game, this is why the 'autowalk" is just goofy:


https://twitter.com/tengland150/status/834455996869263360


Yeah, but couple things:

1) That happens a lot more often in the lower levels of baseball (college and below) than it does in the majors

2) Last year there were 12 wild pitches (and ZERO hits..in fact, the last noteable contact with a wild pitch occurred in 2016 and it was a sac fly), in all of MLB, during intentional walks.  And not all of those wild pitches resulted in runners advancing. There were 932 intentional walks in 2016 (the fewest since the strike shortened season of 1990).  That's a 1.2% chance of something interesting happening, and a 98.8% chance of 4 wasted pitches and 120 seconds of boringness (at least). That's like hitting .001

I'm not going to argue the situation doesn't add some drama...it does. But they payoff on that drama is SO rare...it's an artificial anxiety for the fans. It's akin to electing a fan in the stands to come in and stand in against the other teams closer in the final at bat...VERY low chance for any actual payoff...but we're all going to remember the one time every 10 years that a fan runs into one.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on February 23, 2017, 07:31:20 AM
I enjoy long lasting games.  I hate it live though when they cut liquor service off after a set time frame (experience this is Denver during a hail storm), but watching at home its great.

There are lots of other faster passed sports out there, that that's what they are.    The human element is actually what makes it great.  No ties.  Play until your team can play no longer

To a point.

But, for example, the 3 hour and 40 minutes Red Sox/Yanks games are a little nuts.

Now, ONE of the REASONS they're nuts (and so long) is because so many of them end up on network tv (ESPN and FOX) and they take more commercial breaks than the local sports networks do....but the networks aren't going to give up ad revenue...so in their minds, they have to "fix" the running time so they can still run all those ads AND keep run time to around 2 hours.

The OTHER reasons are those two teams like to fuck with each other, in and out of the box, and they have (had?) some of the WORST guys, when it comes to in and out of box, and round and round the mound, in MLB.

I agree, that last bit is boring as fuck to watch.  I have no issue with a 3 hour game of actual interesting things happening. Those games are GREAT.

But when every game is 3 hours long because of wasted fiddling and diddling.....just...no.  Ughhh.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on February 23, 2017, 09:05:02 AM
I enjoy long lasting games.  I hate it live though when they cut liquor service off after a set time frame (experience this is Denver during a hail storm), but watching at home its great.

There are lots of other faster passed sports out there, that that's what they are.    The human element is actually what makes it great.  No ties.  Play until your team can play no longer

To a point.

But, for example, the 3 hour and 40 minutes Red Sox/Yanks games are a little nuts.

Now, ONE of the REASONS they're nuts (and so long) is because so many of them end up on network tv (ESPN and FOX) and they take more commercial breaks than the local sports networks do....but the networks aren't going to give up ad revenue...so in their minds, they have to "fix" the running time so they can still run all those ads AND keep run time to around 2 hours.

The OTHER reasons are those two teams like to fuck with each other, in and out of the box, and they have (had?) some of the WORST guys, when it comes to in and out of box, and round and round the mound, in MLB.

I agree, that last bit is boring as fuck to watch.  I have no issue with a 3 hour game of actual interesting things happening. Those games are GREAT.

But when every game is 3 hours long because of wasted fiddling and diddling.....just...no.  Ughhh.

Oh I like the wasted fiddling and diddling.  I like the human ahole factor of mind games and showman ship.  I prefer 3 1/2 hr games

Like Rus Martin Said

If they want to save more time why not get rid of the homerun, trot around the mound..

And like Johny Gibbons said

What are they saving with this new walk a pitcher rule, 20 secs?   Cool...

Next perhaps golf will make all the players drive carts around and use automatic score cards

its BS

Some sports are slow, some sports have no designed end time. 

I think like you said a little

This has a lot less to do to catering to fans than it does to trying to stream line a sport for maximum TV revenue. 

Indy racing has a set time limit

Hockey has a specific end time

Baseball doesn't, its nice


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on February 23, 2017, 10:14:50 AM

And like Johny Gibbons said

What are they saving with this new walk a pitcher rule, 20 secs?   Cool...


Not to besmirch Gibbons math skills, but:

Average time to deliver a pitch is about 20 seconds (in 2016).

So each intentional walk is saving about 80 seconds....or a minute and twenty seconds.

Now, I agree....that's a drop in the bucket, considering the diminishing use of the IBB.  But it's something.

Another thing: In recent years, the time between batters (from completion of an AB to the next batter getting into the box) has risen by 50%. Some of that is replay time (about 5% of it), some of it is additional ad time (MLB increased ad break duration on network tv..so that's another approx 10%). The rest is just the players fucking around.

I, too, like the human factor and no clock on baseball.  But I'm sorry...watching Derek Jeter (who I LOVED) fuck with his gloves and go through a 30 second "ritual" before EACH PITCH is not gamesmanship. Watching Clay Bucholz (who I HATE) fiddle and diddle on and around the mound between pitches is not gamesmanship.  It's not "getting into the other teams head". It's boring as fuck. Get in the box, throw the damn ball, and play the game.  That's what I want to see: Baseball.  Just like I would not want to see Lebron James sit there and fuck with his jock, tie his sneakers, and wring out his headband between every foul shot (never mind every basket).

I agree: The stuff that's actually "gamesmanship" is cool to watch and I like the more cerebral elements like that, too. I also agree that every sport has it's own pace, and Baseball is never going to be NBA Showtime, nor do I want it to be.  But there are things they can streamline that improves the PACE of play, so that what we're watching is actual game, and not kicking dirt off your spikes (when there isn't any there).  The funny thing is....other than the intentional walk thing...I'm not advocating drastic rule changes to do that. I'm actually advocating going back to the way things were done in the 80's and 90's, routinely.  This stupid fiddling shit in a recent development...not a traditional one.  The "variable strike zone" is a recent thing (mid-90s til now...and it's gotten worse), not a traditional one.  I actually want them to go back to THAT pacing.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on February 23, 2017, 10:29:01 AM

And like Johny Gibbons said

What are they saving with this new walk a pitcher rule, 20 secs?   Cool...


Not to besmirch Gibbons math skills, but:

Average time to deliver a pitch is about 20 seconds (in 2016).

So each intentional walk is saving about 80 seconds....or a minute and twenty seconds.

Now, I agree....that's a drop in the bucket, considering the diminishing use of the IBB.  But it's something.

Another thing: In recent years, the time between batters (from completion of an AB to the next batter getting into the box) has risen by 50%. Some of that is replay time (about 5% of it), some of it is additional ad time (MLB increased ad break duration on network tv..so that's another approx 10%). The rest is just the players fucking around.

I, too, like the human factor and no clock on baseball.  But I'm sorry...watching Derek Jeter (who I LOVED) fuck with his gloves and go through a 30 second "ritual" before EACH PITCH is not gamesmanship. Watching Clay Bucholz (who I HATE) fiddle and diddle on and around the mound between pitches is not gamesmanship.  It's not "getting into the other teams head". It's boring as fuck. Get in the box, throw the damn ball, and play the game.  That's what I want to see: Baseball.  Just like I would not want to see Lebron James sit there and fuck with his jock, tie his sneakers, and wring out his headband between every foul shot (never mind every basket).

I agree: The stuff that's actually "gamesmanship" is cool to watch and I like the more cerebral elements like that, too. I also agree that every sport has it's own pace, and Baseball is never going to be NBA Showtime, nor do I want it to be.  But there are things they can streamline that improves the PACE of play, so that what we're watching is actual game, and not kicking dirt off your spikes (when there isn't any there).  The funny thing is....other than the intentional walk thing...I'm not advocating drastic rule changes to do that. I'm actually advocating going back to the way things were done in the 80's and 90's, routinely.  This stupid fiddling shit in a recent development...not a traditional one.  The "variable strike zone" is a recent thing (mid-90s til now...and it's gotten worse), not a traditional one.  I actually want them to go back to THAT pacing.

So on the sports channel last night after Gibbons comments regarding it saving the game 20secs

They pulled the actual numbers for last year in time spent via the walk.....  Not the standard pitch that you mentions.    The actual time spent on this was 35secs, so as you can see Johny was very close, and no time is actually saved

And

It takes baseball out of the play

Its stupid

Actual baseball happens during some of these pitches, wild throws etc, not always but sometimes.  ITs not automatic.  Until now.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on February 23, 2017, 10:56:41 AM

So on the sports channel last night after Gibbons comments regarding it saving the game 20secs

They pulled the actual numbers for last year in time spent via the walk.....  Not the standard pitch that you mentions.    The actual time spent on this was 35secs, so as you can see Johny was very close, and no time is actually saved

And

It takes baseball out of the play

Its stupid

Actual baseball happens during some of these pitches, wild throws etc, not always but sometimes.  ITs not automatic.  Until now.

He was off by almost double( 75%)  :) 20 vs 35. And it depends on how you look at it.

They got their stat from this tweet, likely, from @MLBStatistics:
Quote
Intentional walks took an estimated 1410 minutes in 2016.
That is 35 seconds per game.

MLB Statistics is dividing the total number of minutes by the total number of games played in MLB last year to get their number. Fair enough, but it's a little misleading...because not every game HAS an intentional walk, and the total number of intentional walks last year was at a historic low.

In the games that DO have intentional walks...it saves about 1.5 minutes (931 intentional walks last year, 1410 minutes, means 1.5 minutes per intentional walk..pretty close to my 80 second "figuring" based on average time to deliver a pitch).

And, as I said, that's a drop in the bucket compared to the "other stuff".

In term of "something can happen", again, 1.2% of the time, last year, there was a wild pitch (and not every one advanced runners).You could draft a fan in the 9th inning, put them in the batters box, in EVERY game, and get a similar result

You want to watch a guy batting .012?  Not me. Not on my team. Waste of time, waste of an out.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on February 23, 2017, 11:23:13 AM

So on the sports channel last night after Gibbons comments regarding it saving the game 20secs

They pulled the actual numbers for last year in time spent via the walk.....  Not the standard pitch that you mentions.    The actual time spent on this was 35secs, so as you can see Johny was very close, and no time is actually saved

And

It takes baseball out of the play

Its stupid

Actual baseball happens during some of these pitches, wild throws etc, not always but sometimes.  ITs not automatic.  Until now.

He was off by almost double( 75%)  :) 20 vs 35. And it depends on how you look at it.

They got their stat from this tweet, likely, from @MLBStatistics:
Quote
Intentional walks took an estimated 1410 minutes in 2016.
That is 35 seconds per game.

MLB Statistics is dividing the total number of minutes by the total number of games played in MLB last year to get their number. Fair enough, but it's a little misleading...because not every game HAS an intentional walk, and the total number of intentional walks last year was at a historic low.

In the games that DO have intentional walks...it saves about 1.5 minutes (931 intentional walks last year, 1410 minutes, means 1.5 minutes per intentional walk..pretty close to my 80 second "figuring" based on average time to deliver a pitch).

And, as I said, that's a drop in the bucket compared to the "other stuff".

In term of "something can happen", again, 1.2% of the time, last year, there was a wild pitch (and not every one advanced runners).You could draft a fan in the 9th inning, put them in the batters box, in EVERY game, and get a similar result

You want to watch a guy batting .012?  Not me. Not on my team. Waste of time, waste of an out.

That's right, Gibbons off the top of his head comment was 15secs off the actual number.  As compared to the one you mentioned based off some logical stats you had time to look up was 45secs.   

Cool

I think you watch a ball game totally different than myself

For example.   Last year.  I think I caught 90% of all all the Jays games last year.  I think I watched a good chunk of other teams play as well.

For me, I am not sitting on the edge of my seat staring at a tv, writing down every stat, sweating every moment of the game

Lots I just have on in the back ground of life

Lots I just have on the radio

Lots I watch with total focus

Lots I don't

I attended 15 live games last year

Nothing better than watching a ball game in the summer live.

But I am not sitting on the edge of my seat for every play.  Its baseball.  Walking around a stadium, socializing, drinking beer, eating, random cheering and booing

Baseball is one of the few sports that has never really changed anything.  Its where if you actually like stats, they actually mean something in this sport as compared to hockey

I love being out at my cottage at the lake and having a game on my outdoor speakers.  It could last for 5 hours for all I care.  They can fiddle around with everything.  Part of the fun of listening to a ball game on the radio is listening to all the filler stories they come up with.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on February 23, 2017, 01:24:41 PM
That's right, Gibbons off the top of his head comment was 15secs off the actual number.  As compared to the one you mentioned based off some logical stats you had time to look up was 45secs.   
Cool

Again, my stat wasn't off 45 seconds...it was off 10 (and under).

My stat was "from the games that have intentional walks in them, it would cut about 80 seconds off those games". In fact, using the actual numbers, it cuts about 90 seconds off them.

Gibbons cited a completely meaningless, misleading stat (assuming he was of the same mind as @MLBstatistics). Because..you can't cut time off a game in which something doesn't actually happen.  So getting an average over every game played doesn't actually mean anything. It's bad data analysis, especially considering the parameters (all time low of walks last season).

And he was still 75% off, even looking at that.

It doesn't cut "20 seconds off the game" or "35 seconds off the game". It cuts about 90 seconds off the games where there's an intentional walk, and 0 seconds off the games where there aren't.

Quote
I think you watch a ball game totally different than myself

For example.   Last year.  I think I caught 90% of all all the Jays games last year.

Man, I bet your knees were sore. ;)

But I typically have, on TV, about the same for Yanks games. Not last year....they were impossible to watch and work commitments were nuts which kept me from screens and broadcast (though MLB.com gameday audio was nice to have). This year, as in pretty much every year prior, I'd expect that to go back to form with me watching 80% of the Yanks games live, and another 10% via tape delay (west coast games are beyond me with a 6 AM Eastern start to my work day).

Quote
I think I watched a good chunk of other teams play as well.

Since I WASN'T watching as much of the Yanks, I watched/listened to a LOT of other teams last year. Every nationally televised game (either on MLB, ESPN, or FOX) that I knew was on, I watched. I listened to games ALL THE TIME on Sirius, when in the car driving anywhere.  I watch a LOT of baseball from end of February til November.

Quote
For me, I am not sitting on the edge of my seat staring at a tv, writing down every stat, sweating every moment of the game

Yeah, that's different. When the games are on, especially Yanks games, I'm pretty focused. Especially late in the games. I'm not sweating every pitch, but close enough.

And I'm a stats guy. Professional hazard, I guess....

Quote
Lots I just have on in the back ground of life

Other teams games, this is true.  Especially the ones on the radio.....but even then, I'll get sucked in.

Quote
Lots I just have on the radio

Lots I watch with total focus

Lots I don't

Uh huh

Quote
I attended 15 live games last year

Last year was the first year we didn't do an MLB game in....IDK how long. At least since 2008. Maybe more like 2004.

We did go see our state minor league team a half dozen times. We'll go more this year, as their new stadium opens, which is like 30 min away (and not an hour).

I've already got 3 Yanks games bought for this year.  Probably pick up 2 or 3 more later in the season once we know who's terrible, and I can get cheapies via stub hub. Might tag along with a buddy who gets to use corp season tickets for a couple more.

15 just isn't practical for me. I'm married, with 3 kids, and 2.5 hours away from the stadium.  That's a game every other week. At YS prices, I'd be bankrupt....and divorced.  Plus, I can drink my own beer at home. ;)

Quote
Nothing better than watching a ball game in the summer live.

Agree.  I probably, between Little League, High School, Minor League games, and MLB games see 60+ games a year.  For me, there is nothing better on a warm afternoon/evening than sitting at a ball field. Nothing.

Quote
But I am not sitting on the edge of my seat for every play.  Its baseball.  Walking around a stadium, socializing, drinking beer, eating, random cheering and booing

Um...yes and no (for me).  I'm into the game, play to play, and do all that stuff.  Because the pre game and innings breaks afford more than enough time to do all that.  Hell, even when we truck the kids up to get ice cream, I'm watching the monitors.

Quote
Baseball is one of the few sports that has never really changed anything.  Its where if you actually like stats, they actually mean something in this sport as compared to hockey

That's the illusion.  In fact, they've changed LOTs, from field dimensions to mound heights to ball make up to bat construction. They've made defensive and offensive rules, back and forth, through the ages, effecting strike zones, slides, base stealing, etc They've added replay.  Baseball is SLOWER to evolve...I grant you..but this idea that "nothing ever changes...so nothing should ever change" is simply not true.

I agree on the stats thing..they've done everything to preserve the sanctity of those stats, and that's fine.  THIS change is so minor, I'm not sure what the ire is. It won't change stats. As you've pointed out, the overall effect on game time is low.  It would prevent 4 to 6 pitches being thrown in a game WITH an intentional walk, which isn't going to really effect work load much.  And it's literally taking a 1% chance of "something" occurring out of the game.  Meh....doesn't bother me.

Quote
I love being out at my cottage at the lake and having a game on my outdoor speakers.  It could last for 5 hours for all I care.  They can fiddle around with everything.  Part of the fun of listening to a ball game on the radio is listening to all the filler stories they come up with.

Yup, in my backyard, with my smoker running and a cold one in my hands. Heaven.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on February 23, 2017, 02:45:24 PM
hahaha even this pointless banter has gotten me pumped to watch the Jays beat those evil Yankees.

The Yankees are so bad they even have a criminal as a closer pitcher now. 


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on February 23, 2017, 03:41:16 PM
hahaha even this pointless banter has gotten me pumped to watch the Jays beat those evil Yankees.

The Yankees are so bad they even have a criminal as a closer pitcher now. 

Criminals are convicted, not accused. Just sayin'. ;) 

And, FYI:

They'll be fun to watch this year...lots of youth.  I don't know if they'll be all that good, but they'll be fun to watch!

You got a LOT more to worry about in the Red Sox.....



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on February 23, 2017, 03:52:30 PM
hahaha even this pointless banter has gotten me pumped to watch the Jays beat those evil Yankees.

The Yankees are so bad they even have a criminal as a closer pitcher now. 

Criminals are convicted, not accused. Just sayin'. ;) 

And, FYI:

They'll be fun to watch this year...lots of youth.  I don't know if they'll be all that good, but they'll be fun to watch!

You got a LOT more to worry about in the Red Sox.....



Injuries I feel will be the biggest Jays worry this year.  Not to mention lack of depth.   

I am booked to fly in to see the Jays in Toronto in May vs Rangers and they July in Seattle.  If I can swing it fly back out to Toronto in Aug with the kidos.  Its not the price of the games that is expensive, its the frigging cost of downtown hotels in these major cities that is just crazy!   


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on February 24, 2017, 07:11:49 AM
First spring training games today!!!!!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on February 24, 2017, 01:41:51 PM
I'm watching baseball, it's near 70 degrees...the only thing missing is a beer, and the smell of grilling meat!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on February 24, 2017, 04:46:17 PM
I'm watching baseball, it's near 70 degrees...the only thing missing is a beer, and the smell of grilling meat!

Aaron Judge just hit a ball that landed on my desk in Brooklyn.

I know this is not going to happen... but hopefully by mid season the Yankee lineup looks like this ... a realistic lineup...

Ellsbury CF
Castro 3B
Bird 1B
Sanchez C
Holliday DH
Didi SS
Judge RF
Frazier LF
and then either Mateo or Torres at second base

Get Headley and Gardner out of the way .. and sprinkle in Chris Carter


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on February 28, 2017, 09:58:14 AM
I am expecting a big year from Joey Bats.  Watching him in a couple of games so far his bat speed looks fantastic.  Looks like he put 10 lbs of muscle on in his shoulders


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on March 02, 2017, 10:00:52 AM
Uh oh ....

David Price with significant elbow soreness ...doesn't sound good.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on March 02, 2017, 01:00:18 PM
Uh oh ....

David Price with significant elbow soreness ...doesn't sound good.

faldor currently holding his breath somewhere....


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on March 02, 2017, 02:15:14 PM
Uh oh ....

David Price with significant elbow soreness ...doesn't sound good.

Oh hopefully this spreads over to Sale now


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on March 02, 2017, 02:48:04 PM
I never root for injuries but if they happen to guys in Boston ..... oh well..... :hihi:


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: GeorgeSteele on March 02, 2017, 03:48:42 PM

This guy is either one cool cat or a sociopath:

http://deadspin.com/mets-prospect-makes-incredible-nonchalant-catch-of-flyi-1792905042



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: faldor on March 02, 2017, 08:57:49 PM
Uh oh ....

David Price with significant elbow soreness ...doesn't sound good.

faldor currently holding his breath somewhere....
I certainly am not jumping for joy over the news. Meeting with Dr. James Andrews usually means we'll see you back in action a year from now.

Although Price had a disappointing first year with the Sox, he was still a horse who would take the ball every fifth day. And I was hoping he'd have a much better season this year with a little pressure taken off. On the bright side, the Sox still have a pretty good starting five without Price. Sale, Porcello, Pomeranz, Wright, Rodriguez. That should be good enough to be in the mix. Unfortunately though they've become very thin and after the top 5, there's a steep drop off. Any more injuries, and that's inevitable, it could get ugly.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on March 07, 2017, 07:06:26 PM
Anyone going to watch this world baseball thingy this year.   I am looking forward to canada anthe DR in a couple of days.  Would be funny to watch joey bats hit a walk off home run against his pro playin country and then be hated here hahaha


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: faldor on March 07, 2017, 08:42:49 PM
Anyone going to watch this world baseball thingy this year.   I am looking forward to canada anthe DR in a couple of days.  Would be funny to watch joey bats hit a walk off home run against his pro playin country and then be hated here hahaha
I've watched parts of some of the games so far. It's hard to take it too seriously with all the pitch count limits and such, but it's entertaining. It's too bad the major league guys can't go all out, but it's understandable why. Too much money on the line.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on March 08, 2017, 02:27:33 PM
Anyone going to watch this world baseball thingy this year.   I am looking forward to canada anthe DR in a couple of days.  Would be funny to watch joey bats hit a walk off home run against his pro playin country and then be hated here hahaha

Nope. I hate the WBC. Hate it with the passion of a thousand burning suns. I won't watch a minute of it if I can help it.

It's funny....on Friday night I literally spent an hour having a bitch fest with a friend at the brewery about this. We both feel the same way, so it wasn't very contentious....but you'd think we were arguing politics or religion by how ticked off we both got talking about it.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on March 08, 2017, 02:31:24 PM
Anyone going to watch this world baseball thingy this year.   I am looking forward to canada anthe DR in a couple of days.  Would be funny to watch joey bats hit a walk off home run against his pro playin country and then be hated here hahaha
I've watched parts of some of the games so far. It's hard to take it too seriously with all the pitch count limits and such, but it's entertaining. It's too bad the major league guys can't go all out, but it's understandable why. Too much money on the line.

They shouldn't even BE there.

None of the teams want their superstars playing in it, because even pulling punches (so to speak) theres at least ONE big injury every fucking time they play. Each team should get two exemptions every time this piece of shit "tournament" happens, that lets them tell their players to fuck off and get back to work in camp. "No, you can't play".

It's during spring training when these guys should be working with THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PAYING THEM A SHIT TON OF MONEY TO PLAY BALL.

You want to be patriotic? Great...do it in the off season. Find a nice, warm place to play (Miami is GREAT) in December and January and have at it.

UGHHHHHH...ok...deep breaths. Don't get me started, eh?


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on March 08, 2017, 04:41:23 PM
Anyone going to watch this world baseball thingy this year.   I am looking forward to canada anthe DR in a couple of days.  Would be funny to watch joey bats hit a walk off home run against his pro playin country and then be hated here hahaha
I've watched parts of some of the games so far. It's hard to take it too seriously with all the pitch count limits and such, but it's entertaining. It's too bad the major league guys can't go all out, but it's understandable why. Too much money on the line.

They shouldn't even BE there.

None of the teams want their superstars playing in it, because even pulling punches (so to speak) theres at least ONE big injury every fucking time they play. Each team should get two exemptions every time this piece of shit "tournament" happens, that lets them tell their players to fuck off and get back to work in camp. "No, you can't play".

It's during spring training when these guys should be working with THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PAYING THEM A SHIT TON OF MONEY TO PLAY BALL.

You want to be patriotic? Great...do it in the off season. Find a nice, warm place to play (Miami is GREAT) in December and January and have at it.

UGHHHHHH...ok...deep breaths. Don't get me started, eh?

I would agree it should probably be played using players not under MLB contract or pure amateurs.....  I could play 2nd, it would be great.

But then nobody other than my kids would watch and it wouldn't last.

Team Canada, with a bunch of unkowns/aaa players beat the Jays 7-1 the other day.  Guess why?  Canada was actually trying haha

In all honesty, have MLB participate in the summer Olympics.  Minus the boring All Star game that year, take a week off, do it right every 4 years.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on March 20, 2017, 01:20:25 PM
And....Gregorious hurt while playing for the Dutch team.

GRRRRRRRRR.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on March 20, 2017, 08:47:21 PM
Donaldson is loooing good.

Mr MVP.   

Lookin to get locked up for a big term contract

Good luck with the cheap ass Jays.    Brutal

Low balling sanchese      Pathetic


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on March 22, 2017, 03:50:47 PM
And....Gregorious hurt while playing for the Dutch team.

GRRRRRRRRR.

Very frustrating. I was hoping they'd let Torres play but they immediately reassigned him after the injury.

Bird looks tremendous.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: faldor on March 22, 2017, 11:22:28 PM
And....Gregorious hurt while playing for the Dutch team.

GRRRRRRRRR.

Very frustrating. I was hoping they'd let Torres play but they immediately reassigned him after the injury.

Bird looks tremendous.
I picked up Torres in fantasy to stash before that injury took place. We have two slots for guys not in the majors. I'm not sure if he'll get much of a shot this year but I'm taking that chance.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on March 29, 2017, 09:20:40 AM
The Yankees have officially won the grapefruit league championship. I declare the rest of the season irrelevant.

Congrats to the Yanks, Champions of Baseball once again!!! :P


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on March 30, 2017, 08:49:20 PM
It's almost here boys


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: Falcon on March 30, 2017, 09:47:07 PM
Yadier Molina and the Cards close to extension, early reports have it in the 55-65 mil range over 3 years.

In other words, Yadi broke the bank.

And should make him a Cardinal for life. : ok:


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: Falcon on April 02, 2017, 03:21:14 PM
Yadier Molina and the Cards close to extension, early reports have it in the 55-65 mil range over 3 years.

In other words, Yadi broke the bank.

And should make him a Cardinal for life. : ok:

Done deal, 3 years (thru 2020) at 60 million for Yadi.

He's going to get a helluva ovation tonight from the faithful on opening night at Busch. :yes:


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: Falcon on April 03, 2017, 11:28:51 AM
Cards locking up their young assets as well, RF Stephen Piscotty gets 33.5 over 6.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: Falcon on April 03, 2017, 06:11:04 PM
All living baseball HOF'ers (less Lou Brock) along with new team HOF'ers (The Cards have their own HOF) Ted Simmons and Joe Torre donning the red jackets opening night

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8hSDXFVoAArqoC.jpg)

Have never gone to a Cards opening day but I'm going to at some point, gotta see the above and the Clydesdales circling the field.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on April 03, 2017, 10:35:17 PM
Well there goes the jays perfect season


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on April 04, 2017, 08:21:47 AM
Well there goes the jays perfect season

I already told you: The rest of the season is just placeholders. These games, and any "post-placeholder" results (like that World Series thing...pffft) are irrelevant. Yanks won the grapefruit league.  They're the champs.

We can now look forward to football in September!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: Falcon on April 04, 2017, 03:47:47 PM
Interesting Jays note via the twitteratti:

Jon Morosi‏ @jonmorosi

#BlueJays have oldest Opening Day roster of any @MLB team -- average of 31 years, 70 days -- per Elliott Kalb of @MLBNetwork Research.


That's like 217+ years old in dog years. ;)


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on April 14, 2017, 07:56:12 AM
REALLY enjoying watching the Yanks this year. Much more fun to watch than the teams of the past few years. Win or lose, this season, they're making it much more enjoyable to cheer for these guys! I doubt they're going to make a ton of noise in terms of making the playoffs (maybe take a run at a wildcard spot?), but you can see these guys growing every day.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on April 14, 2017, 07:57:35 AM
Interesting Jays note via the twitteratti:

Jon Morosi‏ @jonmorosi

#BlueJays have oldest Opening Day roster of any @MLB team -- average of 31 years, 70 days -- per Elliott Kalb of @MLBNetwork Research.


That's like 217+ years old in dog years. ;)


They've gotten off to a BRUTAL start. I doubt it will last very long but...ughhhh...I"d hate to be the Bacony one right now.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on April 17, 2017, 07:30:21 AM
This looks like it's going to be another injury plagued year for the league.....so many notable players going down early.

And the Yanks managed 8 wins in 12 games. Last year it took them 23 (they were 8 and 15).



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on April 17, 2017, 01:31:45 PM
Bacon better not come back here in two months if they straighten out talking garbage .....

As for the Yankees .... life is good right now ... I want whatever headley is smoking !

Can't wait for Sanchez and Didi to get back.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on April 18, 2017, 11:06:10 AM
Bacon better not come back here in two months if they straighten out talking garbage .....

As for the Yankees .... life is good right now ... I want whatever headley is smoking !

Can't wait for Sanchez and Didi to get back.

I heard DiDi might start a rehab assignment late this week...so back up with the big club by the end of April.

Sanchez is probably out til June, by the time he's through his rehab assignment. :(


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on April 20, 2017, 01:44:46 AM
Jays stink.   

So glad I have two road trips already booked to see them

Worst than that would be a fan of this current line up of gnr   Hahah


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on May 27, 2017, 09:33:18 PM
Let's go jays


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on June 06, 2017, 04:35:36 PM
I'm looking forward to a little Yanks-Sox tonight...

It'll never be the same as it was... but if they both are good for the next few years... could be a little fun.

It will be even better when Machado is on the Yankees  ;D


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on June 06, 2017, 06:55:56 PM
How about this kid Aaron Judge for the Yanks?


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on June 06, 2017, 08:37:09 PM
I'm looking forward to a little Yanks-Sox tonight...

It'll never be the same as it was... but if they both are good for the next few years... could be a little fun.

It will be even better when Machado is on the Yankees  ;D

Yeah perhaps then they will get some bums in the seats in New York.  Just like I said last year.  New stadium looks like a ghost town.  Real great fans


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on June 07, 2017, 08:37:08 AM
I'm looking forward to a little Yanks-Sox tonight...

It'll never be the same as it was... but if they both are good for the next few years... could be a little fun.

It will be even better when Machado is on the Yankees  ;D

Yeah perhaps then they will get some bums in the seats in New York.  Just like I said last year.  New stadium looks like a ghost town.  Real great fans

The Yankees did over 3MM in ticket sales last year with a very average team and another team selling close to 3MM in another stadium that you can take a 15 minute cab ride to...

So you obviously don't know what you are talking about... but I guess that has been established before.

Pretty sure you made the same ignorant comments last year.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on June 07, 2017, 09:57:39 AM
I'm looking forward to a little Yanks-Sox tonight...

It'll never be the same as it was... but if they both are good for the next few years... could be a little fun.

It will be even better when Machado is on the Yankees  ;D

Yeah perhaps then they will get some bums in the seats in New York.  Just like I said last year.  New stadium looks like a ghost town.  Real great fans

The Yankees did over 3MM in ticket sales last year with a very average team and another team selling close to 3MM in another stadium that you can take a 15 minute cab ride to...

So you obviously don't know what you are talking about... but I guess that has been established before.

Pretty sure you made the same ignorant comments last year.

A picture tells a million stories

I am just saying what I see on tv.  Enjoy your ticket sales.  The place looks like a ghost town on tv


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on June 12, 2017, 09:15:06 AM
A picture tells a million stories

I am just saying what I see on tv.  Enjoy your ticket sales.  The place looks like a ghost town on tv

Yeah, I'll take the ticket sales since it pays the bills (and fuels the payroll).  I could give 2 shits what it looks like on TV. Sold seats are sold seats.

Ticket sales up 25% this year, so far.

Attendance up 25% this year, so far (almost 7k fans a game, on average).

TV ratings up close to 20%, so far this year.

I will say this: We saw a LOT of people roaming the concourse this year...way more than we have in previous years. IDK why people are not sitting in their seats, but are roaming...but it was definitely a "thing" for the game we went to. So what you're seeing on tv? Not indicative of actual attendance.

But the atmosphere? Getting MUCH closer to the one from the old Stadium.  People are up and rocking and cheering.  We haven't seen that in this new Stadium, not even really in 2009 when they won it all.

And the billion dollar seats behind home plate are never going to fill at the prices they sell at....it's the corporate section. Yes, it's terrible optics. But it doesn't actually mean anything.

But this team? This team is FUN TO WATCH.  I still don't have faith they can manage to do this at the same pace for a whole season....but it doesn't matter. They are actually interesting and fun and dynamic to watch.  I'm totally happy with THAT. Everything else is gravy.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on June 12, 2017, 09:34:58 AM
A picture tells a million stories

I am just saying what I see on tv.  Enjoy your ticket sales.  The place looks like a ghost town on tv

Yeah, I'll take the ticket sales since it pays the bills (and fuels the payroll).  I could give 2 shits what it looks like on TV. Sold seats are sold seats.

Ticket sales up 25% this year, so far.

Attendance up 25% this year, so far (almost 7k fans a game, on average).

TV ratings up close to 20%, so far this year.

I will say this: We saw a LOT of people roaming the concourse this year...way more than we have in previous years. IDK why people are not sitting in their seats, but are roaming...but it was definitely a "thing" for the game we went to. So what you're seeing on tv? Not indicative of actual attendance.

But the atmosphere? Getting MUCH closer to the one from the old Stadium.  People are up and rocking and cheering.  We haven't seen that in this new Stadium, not even really in 2009 when they won it all.

And the billion dollar seats behind home plate are never going to fill at the prices they sell at....it's the corporate section. Yes, it's terrible optics. But it doesn't actually mean anything.

But this team? This team is FUN TO WATCH.  I still don't have faith they can manage to do this at the same pace for a whole season....but it doesn't matter. They are actually interesting and fun and dynamic to watch.  I'm totally happy with THAT. Everything else is gravy.



I keep saying that ... this team is still a year or two away probably... but as we creep on day by day...

I am starting to think that maybe just maybe they can and will win this division. Do we need another top SP to be a real contender..yeah probably.

As far as Judge... what can I say? No I don't think he's going to win the triple crown ha but even when he goes in to his eventual slump... we have gotten NOTHING from the corner infielders... Bird and maybe Torres will only strengthen the lineup in those spots... so with this offense and the back end bullpen...

I think we should be in it all year.

and yes Aaron Hicks must be juicing! ( how can they possibly bench him for Ellsbury...)


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on June 12, 2017, 11:25:31 AM
I keep saying that ... this team is still a year or two away probably... but as we creep on day by day...

I am starting to think that maybe just maybe they can and will win this division. Do we need another top SP to be a real contender..yeah probably.

As far as Judge... what can I say? No I don't think he's going to win the triple crown ha but even when he goes in to his eventual slump... we have gotten NOTHING from the corner infielders... Bird and maybe Torres will only strengthen the lineup in those spots... so with this offense and the back end bullpen...

I think we should be in it all year.

and yes Aaron Hicks must be juicing! ( how can they possibly bench him for Ellsbury...)

Every day that goes by, I ask the same question re: Ellsbury.  Honestly...Ellsbury is the player that made me go "Huh?" when he was signed, and still does, today.

Given the fact the guy is made of glass, and the concussion symptoms seem to be lingering....we may not have to worry about this til after the AS break.

But, even then...you literally can not pull one of the other 3 guys out. Gardie is on pace to shatter his career HR mark, is hitting .270 with 13 HRs...and is the LEAST productive of the 3 regular outfielders playing right now. You can NOT sit one of those 3 guys, or Yanks fans are going to riot.  If one starts to cool off.....I'm sure Girardi will swap the out for the vet (his modus operandi in previous seasons...and it has NEVER served him well) asap.  But until that happens, if it happens....Ellsbury is the odd man out.

They can't trade him. They're not going to release him....

OH, and they have to figure out Tanaka. Either it's time to extend him, and send him for elbow surgery (finally).....or it's time to "find" another injury to get him on the DL so he can figure shit out. He is the only thing not working quite right on the roster right now.

And agree on the corner infielders.  I wanna dick punch Headly every time he weakly flies out to right center/left center.  But you can't fault 1st base right now. Chris Carter was never meant to be the every day player there. I did chuckle at Sanchez taking over at first a couple games ago.  I think that the insurance plan if Bird comes back and still stinks the plate up....which will be interesting.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on June 12, 2017, 07:08:43 PM
They are definitely fun to watch this year. I don't know how long the young guys can keep this pace up but as long as they can i'll enjoy it. At some point they're gonna hit a snag they're young and history says that'll happen. Inexperience always catches up to you.but we're setup really good for the future with this crop of kids. I don't know if we will make the playoffs but even if we do i agree we're probably a few years away from being a true contender. Judge is the real deal though. This kid has superstar written all over him.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: GeorgeSteele on June 12, 2017, 07:19:43 PM
They are definitely fun to watch this year. I don't know how long the young guys can keep this pace up but as long as they can i'll enjoy it. At some point they're gonna hit a snag they're young and history says that'll happen. Inexperience always catches up to you.but we're setup really good for the future with this crop of kids. I don't know if we will make the playoffs but even if we do i agree we're probably a few years away from being a true contender. Judge is the real deal though. This kid has superstar written all over him.

Yes, they're set up very well.  In many ways, these kinds of seasons are the best for fans.  The excitement comes back, the team goes deep into the season as a playoff contender and, even if the run falls short, the experience of playing in late season meaningful games is priceless for a young team.

Sadly, this season as been almost the exact opposite for the Mets.  Performing below expectations, below ability, below basic decency, etc.  Even Mr. Met lost it and flipped someone the finger. 


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on June 12, 2017, 07:20:49 PM
Jays are also my 500

Then time for total world domination!!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on June 13, 2017, 09:00:45 AM
They are definitely fun to watch this year. I don't know how long the young guys can keep this pace up but as long as they can i'll enjoy it. At some point they're gonna hit a snag they're young and history says that'll happen. Inexperience always catches up to you.but we're setup really good for the future with this crop of kids. I don't know if we will make the playoffs but even if we do i agree we're probably a few years away from being a true contender. Judge is the real deal though. This kid has superstar written all over him.

Every night... I shake my head at him...

Then after the game he stands there and answers every question the way a text book would teach it.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on June 13, 2017, 12:04:06 PM
Every night... I shake my head at him...

Then after the game he stands there and answers every question the way a text book would teach it.

This kid read "The Book of Jeter" in the baseball bible, for sure.

Its like Jeter transplanted his brain into a new "physical specimen" of a body. Even his ABs, this year, are starting to look Jeter-esque.  Which is FRIGHTENING for a guy with this kind of power.

Pitching eventually catches up, and with a guy this size.....holes are usually easier to find in their swing.  But right now, this kid is the most dangerous hitter in the league.  Like...Bonds at his peak level of scary.  I just don't see how he keeps up this pace....but man it's fun to watch his ABs every night!

Not to mention: His defense, and speed, are remarkable for a guy his size. Hell, ANY size. It just.....balls are not supposed to fly that far....and men that size are not meant to steal bases like that...and are not supposed to be able to run down and catch balls with that kind of grace and ability.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on June 13, 2017, 12:43:43 PM
Every night... I shake my head at him...

Then after the game he stands there and answers every question the way a text book would teach it.

This kid read "The Book of Jeter" in the baseball bible, for sure.

Its like Jeter transplanted his brain into a new "physical specimen" of a body. Even his ABs, this year, are starting to look Jeter-esque.  Which is FRIGHTENING for a guy with this kind of power.

Pitching eventually catches up, and with a guy this size.....holes are usually easier to find in their swing.  But right now, this kid is the most dangerous hitter in the league.  Like...Bonds at his peak level of scary.  I just don't see how he keeps up this pace....but man it's fun to watch his ABs every night!

Not to mention: His defense, and speed, are remarkable for a guy his size. Hell, ANY size. It just.....balls are not supposed to fly that far....and men that size are not meant to steal bases like that...and are not supposed to be able to run down and catch balls with that kind of grace and ability.

I have no doubt that his batting average will most likely dip down to around 300 by the end of the year (which is still great)... but he already leads the league in walks (I think) and eventually teams will stop throwing to him completely, so his OBP isn't going anywhere.

I have no clue what Soscia was thinking last night...


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on June 13, 2017, 02:17:04 PM
I have no clue what Soscia was thinking last night...

Hottest hitter in the league, who is also the HR leader, with first base open, in a tie game, with one out?

Seems like a no-brainer to walk him, put the double play in place, and avoid pitching to him.

Maybe Soscia doesn't believe the hype so far? Maybe he figured they "had" something on Judge, so they could handle him? Maybe they figured if they walked him, they had to pitch to Holiday....who is also a power threat (and then it's a 3 run bomb)...Castro who's hitting .350 and maybe Didi who was 3-3 at that point and is hitting .340...if they couldn't get the double play? I just don't know.  With this lineup, that middle of the order is fucking murder right now.

But I'm with you....I can't believe they pitched to him


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on June 13, 2017, 06:42:22 PM
I rather read a blank board than all this New York centrick gibber jabber

New York would look great on radio haha


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on June 18, 2017, 07:08:28 PM
God why do the Yankees always suck out west? The teams out there own our asses whenever we're out there it seems.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on June 19, 2017, 10:05:56 AM
God why do the Yankees always suck out west? The teams out there own our asses whenever we're out there it seems.

3 Historic Yankees Kryptonite:

1) West Coast Trips
2) Camden Yards
3) The Trop

Its funny, though...because even though they lost, pretty much every game was fun to watch.  Mostly close games, that literally came down to the last at bats.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on June 19, 2017, 08:26:38 PM
True but the bullpen which is a strength was awful on this trip.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on June 20, 2017, 03:02:28 PM
True but the bullpen which is a strength was awful on this trip.

CC leaving that game early was an ugly spiral for the rest of the week... and then the next day I think Pineda got rocked early... waxed the bullpen.

We knew the slump as coming eventually... hopefully they bounce back at home!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on June 20, 2017, 04:47:17 PM
Another great win last night for the jays

Such a tight wild card race right now.  Of coarse some of these teams will be unloading players right away which will make the jays case of world domination all the much easier

Also making it easier.

The Yankees stink!!!!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on June 20, 2017, 06:52:20 PM
True but the bullpen which is a strength was awful on this trip.

CC leaving that game early was an ugly spiral for the rest of the week... and then the next day I think Pineda got rocked early... waxed the bullpen.

We knew the slump as coming eventually... hopefully they bounce back at home!
Yep and it got ugly quick.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on June 20, 2017, 08:16:24 PM
Looking for another big win tonight for jays

Let's see if your big lefties arm is in it.  I think it will be


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on June 21, 2017, 06:24:30 AM
two more wins in Texas is good enough for me!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on June 22, 2017, 09:42:38 AM
Another huge win for the bluejays

They sure are fun to watch

Smoak for MVP!!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on June 26, 2017, 11:40:53 AM
Jays stink


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on June 28, 2017, 10:13:02 AM
Jays are about 12 and 25 against the al east

Horrible

Let's sell players now!!!!  The ship is almost sunk

Slow and old

Where is my time machine   I want 2015 to come back!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on June 29, 2017, 11:42:25 PM
Well fuck! Fowler carted off in his MLB debut in the first fucking inning!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on June 30, 2017, 12:22:58 AM
Ruptured Patella tendon. Surgery tonight.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on June 30, 2017, 06:15:22 AM
Ruptured Patella tendon. Surgery tonight.

You just gotta feel terrible for that kid. HUGE prospect.....first MLB game...and there's a 50/50 shot his career is over.



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on June 30, 2017, 07:24:51 PM
Yeah just heartbreaking to see him go down like that in his first game. 4-5 months for recovery. So he'll be healthy in time for spring training. You hate to see that happen to any player but to see it happen in their debut is awful.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on June 30, 2017, 07:32:26 PM
I really hope i can see this weekends games against Houston. It's usually blacked out on both home and away feeds on mlb.tv because even though i'm 4 hours from Houston i'm considered Astros viewing area.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on July 01, 2017, 10:45:45 PM
Way to tank that game Yanks!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on July 05, 2017, 06:35:01 PM
Even if the Jays are going to be going into sell mode right away.

It sure was nice seeing them beat those Yankee cowards in there own park again!!!

Another win for the good guys!!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on July 10, 2017, 10:31:32 PM
Aaron Judge my goodness.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on July 11, 2017, 12:00:38 PM
Aaron Judge my goodness.

Not just the number of them...the pace at which he hit them, and the fucking BOMBS he hit.  Holy shit, that was impressive.

I really like the changes they've made to the derby.  Head to head and timed rounds has reinvigorated that event to the point of being compelling to watch, again.

Last night was fun!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on July 11, 2017, 03:16:33 PM
He made it look easy.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on July 14, 2017, 09:33:59 AM
And tonight, back to baseball!



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on July 14, 2017, 10:16:48 AM
And tonight, back to baseball!




The all star break is sports torture....


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on July 14, 2017, 10:31:31 AM
The all star break is sports torture....

YES!

Other all star games...there's other sports being played so its easy to muddle through.

But MLB? NOTHING!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on July 14, 2017, 10:52:12 AM
Sox DFA Sandoval. YIKES.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on July 14, 2017, 12:56:43 PM
Welp... Pinedas Yankee career is officially over...

I feel for him... on his contract year...

Hopefully we see Chance Adams


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on July 14, 2017, 01:21:50 PM
Welp... Pinedas Yankee career is officially over...

I feel for him... on his contract year...

Hopefully we see Chance Adams

I feel for him, too.  But....I think we sorta suspected something was wrong over the last month. He has looked completely different since June 1st.  Something didn't look right.



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on July 14, 2017, 06:13:28 PM
I'm not really up on our prospects. How good is Adams?


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on July 14, 2017, 10:25:08 PM
I'm not really up on our prospects. How good is Adams?

Potentially? Really really good.

But he's green. I worry he might be coming up early, and it will wreck him.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on July 14, 2017, 10:48:12 PM
Chapman needs to go back on the DL TONIGHT! Something is still not right with him.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on July 16, 2017, 08:16:40 AM
Jays lots again.  If there is any doubt about the situation there I think it over now

Trade them all. Including Donaldson, Stoman etc.  Rebuild completely not on the fly.  Young young young    Trade our young pitchers now cause when the jays are going to be competive again will be 7 years from now.  Ugh

I need a new national league team to watch now.   I was thinking about the pirates.  I like pirates


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on July 19, 2017, 08:50:49 AM
Yanks pulled off a pretty good trade.  They've got 2 ELITE bullpen pitchers and a serviceable 1st/3rd basement for Clippard (who has been terrible since June 1st), a VERY green, highly rated prospect who plays a loggerjam position for the yanks (they have a ton of outfield prospects), and 2 guys unlikely to make big MLB impacts any time soon (if ever).

If the Yanks can get their bullpen right, they should be back on track to having a decent season.

Still fun to watch...though almost as much frustration as fun, lately.  And it's all been from the 2 guys who were SUPPOSED to be automatic (Betances and Chapman).  You gotta wonder if something is going on with Chapman...but if it is, Robertson can step right into the closer role.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on July 19, 2017, 10:38:41 AM
Always loved Robertson ... hard to knock this move...


Everything you said is accurate.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: TheBaconman on July 19, 2017, 05:59:37 PM
Awesome.  Early moves drives up trade value

kC
Evil Yankees
Bo sox

Who wants..... 

Mvps.  Young stud starting pitchers, veterans

Take them all please


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on July 21, 2017, 12:21:50 AM
Just had to come and quickly say Sevarino is dealing tonight.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on July 21, 2017, 12:30:49 AM
Just had to come and quickly say Sevarino is dealing tonight.

101.2...fastest pitch thrown by a starter in MLB this year.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on July 21, 2017, 01:51:33 AM
Just had to come and quickly say Sevarino is dealing tonight.

101.2...fastest pitch thrown by a starter in MLB this year.
Just wish Chapman could've preserved the shutout.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on July 21, 2017, 11:41:22 PM
Did you just see where Judge hit that ball Pilf?  :o


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on July 22, 2017, 09:53:45 AM
Did you just see where Judge hit that ball Pilf?  :o

Yup. I'm still not sure its landed yet....


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on July 22, 2017, 05:05:23 PM
Did you just see where Judge hit that ball Pilf?  :o

Yup. I'm still not sure its landed yet....
If the roof were open it might've left Safeco.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on July 25, 2017, 01:56:55 PM
Well...it looks like the level of Jays talk will decline sharply. :(


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on July 28, 2017, 10:46:10 AM
Price had MRI on pitching elbow. Rumor is he's done for this season...and, as we know, if TJ surgery is needed...most of next.

We'll see if the rumors are true.  Up til now...thought was just tendonitis/strain.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on July 28, 2017, 09:22:21 PM
Tanaka dealing in the Bronx tonight.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on July 29, 2017, 04:35:50 PM
Gardner with the walk off in 2 of the last 3.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on July 31, 2017, 12:57:19 PM
Gardner with the walk off in 2 of the last 3.

I am nervous about the package we might be giving up for Sonny Gray... I just don't think he's that good... he's under control for two more years, so that's the real appeal.

I wanted to take Verlander off of Detroit's hands... assume the money and not have to give up any pieces.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on July 31, 2017, 01:43:16 PM
I am nervous about the package we might be giving up for Sonny Gray... I just don't think he's that good... he's under control for two more years, so that's the real appeal.

I wanted to take Verlander off of Detroit's hands... assume the money and not have to give up any pieces.

Gray is a decent #3, with a notable injury history. His upside is he is under team control til 2020...and since CC, Pinaeda, and potentially Tanaka (no way he opts out, but it's possible) could all be gone at the end of this year, it's a cheap, long term, solution to rotation questions not just this year, but next.

But they are buying high, by trying to do this deal in season.  I don't think he's enough of a difference maker to sway the Yanks chances at a WS title this year, either way.  He's essentially replacing Pinaeda in the rotation, and while he's an upgrade over him, he's not THAT much of an upgrade (about a half a point in WAR).

I'm with you, by the way. Cash should not overpay for him.  A's seem to want Mateo AND Florial, plus 2 more top 40 prospects.  That's too rich for my blood.  Either/or, and we're in business.

We'll see.  If they really want him, they could go get him this winter and probably pay a LOT less.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on July 31, 2017, 04:39:59 PM
I am nervous about the package we might be giving up for Sonny Gray... I just don't think he's that good... he's under control for two more years, so that's the real appeal.

I wanted to take Verlander off of Detroit's hands... assume the money and not have to give up any pieces.

Gray is a decent #3, with a notable injury history. His upside is he is under team control til 2020...and since CC, Pinaeda, and potentially Tanaka (no way he opts out, but it's possible) could all be gone at the end of this year, it's a cheap, long term, solution to rotation questions not just this year, but next.

But they are buying high, by trying to do this deal in season.  I don't think he's enough of a difference maker to sway the Yanks chances at a WS title this year, either way.  He's essentially replacing Pinaeda in the rotation, and while he's an upgrade over him, he's not THAT much of an upgrade (about a half a point in WAR).

I'm with you, by the way. Cash should not overpay for him.  A's seem to want Mateo AND Florial, plus 2 more top 40 prospects.  That's too rich for my blood.  Either/or, and we're in business.

We'll see.  If they really want him, they could go get him this winter and probably pay a LOT less.


I am not unhappy with what we gave up... two guys who are out for a long time... and Mateo... lets face it... with Didi and Torres... you knew eventually he was a goner if the right deal came along.

So I am happy with it considering Gray is under control for two more years... and they needed to fill holes in that rotation now and for next year.



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on July 31, 2017, 05:52:45 PM
I am nervous about the package we might be giving up for Sonny Gray... I just don't think he's that good... he's under control for two more years, so that's the real appeal.

I wanted to take Verlander off of Detroit's hands... assume the money and not have to give up any pieces.

Gray is a decent #3, with a notable injury history. His upside is he is under team control til 2020...and since CC, Pinaeda, and potentially Tanaka (no way he opts out, but it's possible) could all be gone at the end of this year, it's a cheap, long term, solution to rotation questions not just this year, but next.

But they are buying high, by trying to do this deal in season.  I don't think he's enough of a difference maker to sway the Yanks chances at a WS title this year, either way.  He's essentially replacing Pinaeda in the rotation, and while he's an upgrade over him, he's not THAT much of an upgrade (about a half a point in WAR).

I'm with you, by the way. Cash should not overpay for him.  A's seem to want Mateo AND Florial, plus 2 more top 40 prospects.  That's too rich for my blood.  Either/or, and we're in business.

We'll see.  If they really want him, they could go get him this winter and probably pay a LOT less.


I am not unhappy with what we gave up... two guys who are out for a long time... and Mateo... lets face it... with Didi and Torres... you knew eventually he was a goner if the right deal came along.

So I am happy with it considering Gray is under control for two more years... and they needed to fill holes in that rotation now and for next year.



No, me either. Great deal, imho, for the yanks. Like...cash used jedi mind tricks great.

Mateo will actually, probably, end up in the of, not if. I think, most recently, he was projecting to ge center fielder.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: faldor on July 31, 2017, 08:35:37 PM
Price had MRI on pitching elbow. Rumor is he's done for this season...and, as we know, if TJ surgery is needed...most of next.

We'll see if the rumors are true.  Up til now...thought was just tendonitis/strain.
He says he'll be back soon. Doesn't sound too serious.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on July 31, 2017, 08:58:30 PM
Man gutsy 5 innings for Severino tonight without his best stuff.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on August 01, 2017, 06:32:48 AM
He says he'll be back soon. Doesn't sound too serious.

Just FYI:

He said the same thing, via SM, shortly after they found the UCL tear/strain/whatever it really is, back in March-ish.  He was super optimistic he'd be back quickly.

It took him all of spring training, and most of the month of May (so about 12 weeks) to recover from it.  And about 7 weeks later, it's back again.

I know they're saying it's "less severe" than in spring training, but I wouldn't take his word for it or the Sox word for it (who, while saying it's less severe, also wouldn't rule out losing him for the season in the next breath), all things considered.

It's definitely not a complete tear...it doesn't look like he's going to opt for surgery...so that's better than originally expected.  BUT....lets see how long until they clear him to actually pitch.



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on August 01, 2017, 11:24:09 AM
I see that Bacoman was finally BANNED.....

No more ridiculous Blue Jay rants huh..... how sad lol


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on August 01, 2017, 11:30:27 AM
I see that Bacoman was finally BANNED.....

No more ridiculous Blue Jay rants huh..... how sad lol

Yeah, I noticed it last week.

I think his ranting and raving leading up to, during, and just after the live stream on Sirius was the final straw for the mods.

And the Jays have been SOOOOOO bad, he'd basically gone away to hide from this thread, anyway.  He tried to talk some smack, during the Yanks swoon, and then the Jays suddenly couldn't win, again.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on August 01, 2017, 11:42:05 AM
I see that Bacoman was finally BANNED.....

No more ridiculous Blue Jay rants huh..... how sad lol

Yeah, I noticed it last week.

I think his ranting and raving leading up to, during, and just after the live stream on Sirius was the final straw for the mods.

And the Jays have been SOOOOOO bad, he'd basically gone away to hide from this thread, anyway.  He tried to talk some smack, during the Yanks swoon, and then the Jays suddenly couldn't win, again.

Do we even still have Mods other than Jarmo? I thought he was the only person really policing anything, maybe I'm wrong.


Jays have been atrocious this year...


Our favorite 150 million dollar bench player played and lead off last night... made me sick lol

I am really curious about what happens when Hicks comes back.... I know Hal won't eat 70 million...but what the hell are they supposed to do...

At this rate... Frazier HAS to play left field every day....


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on August 01, 2017, 01:26:50 PM
I see that Bacoman was finally BANNED.....

No more ridiculous Blue Jay rants huh..... how sad lol

Yeah, I noticed it last week.

I think his ranting and raving leading up to, during, and just after the live stream on Sirius was the final straw for the mods.

And the Jays have been SOOOOOO bad, he'd basically gone away to hide from this thread, anyway.  He tried to talk some smack, during the Yanks swoon, and then the Jays suddenly couldn't win, again.

Do we even still have Mods other than Jarmo? I thought he was the only person really policing anything, maybe I'm wrong.


Jays have been atrocious this year...


Our favorite 150 million dollar bench player played and lead off last night... made me sick lol

I am really curious about what happens when Hicks comes back.... I know Hal won't eat 70 million...but what the hell are they supposed to do...

At this rate... Frazier HAS to play left field every day....

I mean...they COULD, feasibly, DFA Holiday and use the DH as the "odd outfielder out" spot and rotate around. But Judge and Frazier are both not going anywhere.  Gardner is playing center VERY well, and is hitting better than you suspect Ellsbury will, AND has been in the midst of a power display recently.  So, even with Hicks coming back...none of the guys playing the OF should be sat, completely.  Their bats are too important.

So, you DFA Holiday (as much as I hate to do it), who hasn't been hitting great and can't actually play the field all that well.  Ellsbury becomes your backup outfielder/DH, in case of injury.

IDK, we'll see.  The thing is: They only have to really hold down the fort til September callups, when the rosters expand.  But you REALLY want Frazier on the post season roster....ditto Hicks.  So....it's gotta be Ellsbury or Holiday on the outside, looking in. Given the economics, I'm betting Holiday. But maybe they'll surprise me.

What I would LOVE for them to do is swap Ellsbury's contract for Verlanders in a waiver wire deal.  Let Verlander spell Monty (or Sevy) for awhile, since he may be on an innings limit.  Both those guys would likely clear waivers, since nobody wants to take those contracts on.  Straight contract swap and bob's your uncle.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on August 01, 2017, 01:41:38 PM
I see that Bacoman was finally BANNED.....

No more ridiculous Blue Jay rants huh..... how sad lol

Yeah, I noticed it last week.

I think his ranting and raving leading up to, during, and just after the live stream on Sirius was the final straw for the mods.

And the Jays have been SOOOOOO bad, he'd basically gone away to hide from this thread, anyway.  He tried to talk some smack, during the Yanks swoon, and then the Jays suddenly couldn't win, again.

Do we even still have Mods other than Jarmo? I thought he was the only person really policing anything, maybe I'm wrong.


Jays have been atrocious this year...


Our favorite 150 million dollar bench player played and lead off last night... made me sick lol

I am really curious about what happens when Hicks comes back.... I know Hal won't eat 70 million...but what the hell are they supposed to do...

At this rate... Frazier HAS to play left field every day....

I mean...they COULD, feasibly, DFA Holiday and use the DH as the "odd outfielder out" spot and rotate around. But Judge and Frazier are both not going anywhere.  Gardner is playing center VERY well, and is hitting better than you suspect Ellsbury will, AND has been in the midst of a power display recently.  So, even with Hicks coming back...none of the guys playing the OF should be sat, completely.  Their bats are too important.

So, you DFA Holiday (as much as I hate to do it), who hasn't been hitting great and can't actually play the field all that well.  Ellsbury becomes your backup outfielder/DH, in case of injury.

IDK, we'll see.  The thing is: They only have to really hold down the fort til September callups, when the rosters expand.  But you REALLY want Frazier on the post season roster....ditto Hicks.  So....it's gotta be Ellsbury or Holiday on the outside, looking in. Given the economics, I'm betting Holiday. But maybe they'll surprise me.

What I would LOVE for them to do is swap Ellsbury's contract for Verlanders in a waiver wire deal.  Let Verlander spell Monty (or Sevy) for awhile, since he may be on an innings limit.  Both those guys would likely clear waivers, since nobody wants to take those contracts on.  Straight contract swap and bob's your uncle.

Where do I sign for a Verlander swap.....

Holliday... there must be something lingering from that illness... he is behind on every pitch.



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on August 01, 2017, 01:49:06 PM
Despite the obvious upgrades we made ... I still give the edge in the division to the bad guys ...

Sale is such a difference maker.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on August 01, 2017, 01:58:31 PM
Despite the obvious upgrades we made ... I still give the edge in the division to the bad guys ...

Sale is such a difference maker.

A lot depends on Price.

If it really is a minor issue, and he's back in a couple weeks, so do I.

If it's something more major, and he misses significant time down the stretch, or comes on and off the DL over the last 60 games once or twice.....then I think the Yanks have the edge.

Sale is a difference maker, but he can only pitch once every 5 days.  The Sox were NOT GOOD until Price came back and started pitching well.

All this is assuming the Yanks offense continues to chug along like it has, and their bullpen is lights out.  Neither is a sure thing.  These young guys could regress, and fast. We just don't know.....



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on August 01, 2017, 03:05:18 PM
Pedroia to DL with knee something (swelling?).

Edit: To clear up why I can't tell.  The alert I got says "Pedroia to DL with knee adam".

Somehow, I don't think Dustin names his knees, nor do I think naming his knee adam would lead to a DL stint.

I'm assuming they mean edema.....and it's a typo. But I can't tell and haven't seen anyone else comment yet.

Sure they will, soon.



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: C0ma on August 01, 2017, 10:17:24 PM
Pedroia to DL with knee something (swelling?).

Edit: To clear up why I can't tell.  The alert I got says "Pedroia to DL with knee adam".

Somehow, I don't think Dustin names his knees, nor do I think naming his knee adam would lead to a DL stint.

I'm assuming they mean edema.....and it's a typo. But I can't tell and haven't seen anyone else comment yet.

Sure they will, soon.


Boston Herald:

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox/clubhouse_insider/2017/08/dustin_pedroia_to_dl_andrew_benintendi_out_again_for_red#.WYEiyiyGjNQ.twitter

Eduardo Nunez was acquired because of his ability to play third base, but it?s second base where Nunez will need to get comfortable.

Dustin Pedroia, who has missed the last four games, was placed on the 10-day disabled list with left knee inflammation on Tuesday afternoon.

"We?re hopeful he?s back to us at the end of the 10-day stint," manager John Farrell said.

He met with a knee specialist in Boston today after feeling consistent fatigue and soreness over the last week or so. The determination was that the trouble was caused by a cartilage  issue, not a ligament issue, and some rest was necessary


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: faldor on August 06, 2017, 02:58:21 PM
He says he'll be back soon. Doesn't sound too serious.

Just FYI:

He said the same thing, via SM, shortly after they found the UCL tear/strain/whatever it really is, back in March-ish.  He was super optimistic he'd be back quickly.

It took him all of spring training, and most of the month of May (so about 12 weeks) to recover from it.  And about 7 weeks later, it's back again.

I know they're saying it's "less severe" than in spring training, but I wouldn't take his word for it or the Sox word for it (who, while saying it's less severe, also wouldn't rule out losing him for the season in the next breath), all things considered.

It's definitely not a complete tear...it doesn't look like he's going to opt for surgery...so that's better than originally expected.  BUT....lets see how long until they clear him to actually pitch.


Looks like you were right about Price. Nothing official but he's still experiencing general soreness and certainly won't be back as soon as they hoped. I should know better by now to never trust the Red Sox when it comes to injury news. Carson Smith was supposed to be back by June. Still waiting for him.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on August 11, 2017, 04:51:31 PM
Derek jeter led group to buy the Marlins. I wish him the best in this new endeavour. As for the Loria's goodbye and good riddance to bad trash. May MLB never let those scumbags back in the door.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on August 18, 2017, 06:42:09 AM
Nothin' says wakin' up....like a series with the Mets in your cup.

;)


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on August 22, 2017, 09:16:32 PM
Tanaka dealing through 6 tonight in Detroit.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: faldor on August 23, 2017, 12:00:35 AM
Tanaka dealing through 6 tonight in Detroit.
Not as well as Doug Fister. Yes that's right, Doug Fister. Gave up a lead off homer and then didn't give up another hit for a CG one hitter. I can't imagine this will become commonplace so I'll enjoy it while I can. Indians are falling apart health wise. Put Miller and Salazar back on the DL today, lost Santana last night, and Kipnis tonight. What a difference a couple of days make.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on August 23, 2017, 12:47:50 AM
Tanaka dealing through 6 tonight in Detroit.
Not as well as Doug Fister. Yes that's right, Doug Fister. Gave up a lead off homer and then didn't give up another hit for a CG one hitter. I can't imagine this will become commonplace so I'll enjoy it while I can. Indians are falling apart health wise. Put Miller and Salazar back on the DL today, lost Santana last night, and Kipnis tonight. What a difference a couple of days make.
Ouch that's really bad.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on August 23, 2017, 09:12:32 AM
Wrong sport.... but you C fans like the trade?

I did a double take when I woke up and saw Fister throws 1 hitter...


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: faldor on August 23, 2017, 12:46:37 PM
Wrong sport.... but you C fans like the trade?

I did a double take when I woke up and saw Fister throws 1 hitter...

I think the Kyrie trade could be good for both teams. Obvious risks on both sides. I selfishly was hoping the Celtics wouldn't have to give up that much since Kyrie pretty much demanded a trade. But the package was certainly substantial. I like it, just hope that last Brooklyn pick doesn't turn into a generational player. The Lakers pick could end up being better anyway, the lottery and draft itself is a crapshoot.

As for Fister, he has pitched a couple good games this year against the Indians. Obviously he was great last night, but I still won't feel comfortable when he takes the hill against the Yankees next or anytime thereafter. But it looks like he'll be the 5th starter the rest of the way. Price is still nowhere close to coming back and at this point I wouldn't expect anything more than a relief role for him if he comes back for the playoffs. Far from a certainty though, but he's running out of time to build back up the arm strength to be a starter for the stretch run for sure.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on August 23, 2017, 01:37:39 PM
Wrong sport.... but you C fans like the trade?

I did a double take when I woke up and saw Fister throws 1 hitter...

I think the Kyrie trade could be good for both teams. Obvious risks on both sides. I selfishly was hoping the Celtics wouldn't have to give up that much since Kyrie pretty much demanded a trade. But the package was certainly substantial. I like it, just hope that last Brooklyn pick doesn't turn into a generational player. The Lakers pick could end up being better anyway, the lottery and draft itself is a crapshoot.

As for Fister, he has pitched a couple good games this year against the Indians. Obviously he was great last night, but I still won't feel comfortable when he takes the hill against the Yankees next or anytime thereafter. But it looks like he'll be the 5th starter the rest of the way. Price is still nowhere close to coming back and at this point I wouldn't expect anything more than a relief role for him if he comes back for the playoffs. Far from a certainty though, but he's running out of time to build back up the arm strength to be a starter for the stretch run for sure.

Yeah considering they had to trade Kyrie, they did very well to get back an all star and what could be a TOP draft pick. Like it for both sides...but regardless.. for Cleveland... Lebron is going...

I don't think the Yanks are gunna chase you guys down... those blown games last week were hugeeee... the Devers hH and the 6-3 lead we blew in Boston were gross.


BUT where do I sign for a good ol Yanks- Sox ALCS.... we need one... haha


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on August 23, 2017, 01:54:37 PM
Wrong sport.... but you C fans like the trade?

I did a double take when I woke up and saw Fister throws 1 hitter...


I mean..I'm OK with the trade.

I don't think it makes them better. I don't think it makes them worse. I do think KI is easier to build around. And IT is a perfect "piece" for Cleveland, and will fit in much better with Lebrons style (however long he's there for).



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on August 23, 2017, 02:00:37 PM
Yeah considering they had to trade Kyrie, they did very well to get back an all star and what could be a TOP draft pick. Like it for both sides...but regardless.. for Cleveland... Lebron is going...

I don't think the Yanks are gunna chase you guys down... those blown games last week were hugeeee... the Devers hH and the 6-3 lead we blew in Boston were gross.


BUT where do I sign for a good ol Yanks- Sox ALCS.... we need one... haha


It would take an EPIC Sox meltdown (or a sudden Judge resurgance of epic proportions) for the Yanks to make up those 4 loses in 38 games.  It's possible....but I just don't think they are built to do it.  Their youngsters have regressed some, their rotation is...shaky? (and that's being kind) and the back end of their bullpen (*cough* Chapman *cough*) has not been the juggernaut it was supposed to be.

That being said: I didn't expect them to do SHIT this year.....so they are far exceeding my expectations. They have a 4 loss lead for the first wild card, and I think they can probably manage to hold on to that. Realistically, that's better than I thought they'd do, so....I'm good.

NEXT year.....NEXT year I have expectations. ;)


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on August 23, 2017, 02:12:47 PM
Yeah considering they had to trade Kyrie, they did very well to get back an all star and what could be a TOP draft pick. Like it for both sides...but regardless.. for Cleveland... Lebron is going...

I don't think the Yanks are gunna chase you guys down... those blown games last week were hugeeee... the Devers hH and the 6-3 lead we blew in Boston were gross.


BUT where do I sign for a good ol Yanks- Sox ALCS.... we need one... haha


It would take an EPIC Sox meltdown (or a sudden Judge resurgance of epic proportions) for the Yanks to make up those 4 loses in 38 games.  It's possible....but I just don't think they are built to do it.  Their youngsters have regressed some, their rotation is...shaky? (and that's being kind) and the back end of their bullpen (*cough* Chapman *cough*) has not been the juggernaut it was supposed to be.

That being said: I didn't expect them to do SHIT this year.....so they are far exceeding my expectations. They have a 4 loss lead for the first wild card, and I think they can probably manage to hold on to that. Realistically, that's better than I thought they'd do, so....I'm good.

NEXT year.....NEXT year I have expectations. ;)

At this point... I will be disappointed to not win the wild card game... making that game doesn't equate to being in the playoffs to me.

BUT like you said we expected nothing coming in to the year... so it's all gravy.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on August 24, 2017, 03:49:56 PM
Cabrera deserves 80 games for that one.

Total sucker punch and the only punches thrown.

If I were MLB, he'd be done for this season, playoffs, and 40 games of next season, too. DONE.

He'll get 10 games, appeal, and end up out 5.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on August 24, 2017, 04:03:32 PM
Cabrera deserves 80 games for that one.

Total sucker punch and the only punches thrown.

If I were MLB, he'd be done for this season, playoffs, and 40 games of next season, too. DONE.

He'll get 10 games, appeal, and end up out 5.


Baseball is ridiculous... they drill Sanchez because they can't get him out... so we do the right thing... and Cabrera goes ballistic... what a POS.

Sanchez is fucked tho because he got in some real cheap shots towards the end.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on August 24, 2017, 07:35:45 PM
And that whole umpire crew should be suspended. They enabled it all to continue by not issuing warnings.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: faldor on August 25, 2017, 01:15:08 AM
Cabrera deserves 80 games for that one.

Total sucker punch and the only punches thrown.

If I were MLB, he'd be done for this season, playoffs, and 40 games of next season, too. DONE.

He'll get 10 games, appeal, and end up out 5.

Uh, and Sanchez should get? And how about Betances? I freely admit I didn't see the whole thing but Sanchez got a few cheap shots in of his own. Ridiculous for all involved, umps certainly included. No way they can let things get that out of hand.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on August 25, 2017, 03:25:41 AM
All they probably had to do was issue warnings after the first HBP but they didn't and it just spiraled downward.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on August 25, 2017, 07:03:13 AM
Cabrera deserves 80 games for that one.

Total sucker punch and the only punches thrown.

If I were MLB, he'd be done for this season, playoffs, and 40 games of next season, too. DONE.

He'll get 10 games, appeal, and end up out 5.

Uh, and Sanchez should get? And how about Betances? I freely admit I didn't see the whole thing but Sanchez got a few cheap shots in of his own. Ridiculous for all involved, umps certainly included. No way they can let things get that out of hand.


Betances wasn't trying to get anybody ....

It's 6-6 they just tied the game....nobody thinks he hit him in the head on purpose... just really bad timing for him to be Wild which he has been all year.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on August 25, 2017, 10:09:16 AM
Uh, and Sanchez should get? And how about Betances? I freely admit I didn't see the whole thing but Sanchez got a few cheap shots in of his own. Ridiculous for all involved, umps certainly included. No way they can let things get that out of hand.

You should watch the whole thing. Right from the pitch that hit Sanchez until the Yanks TRIED (unsuccessfully, remember) to stick one up Cabrera's ass.

It was over. The Yanks pitcher got thrown out (which was stupid because the umps never issued warnings...which was the entire problem, here), Chapman had warmed up and was ready to go. Basically, all but two people in the whole stadium had gotten over it. One of them was back in the Yanks clubhouse (Joe G), and the other was stepping into the batters box.  Cabrera escalated it all over again as soon as he came to the plate. He started the "conversation" with Romine. It's pretty obvious Miggy came to the batters box with intent to punch out Romine. This wasn't a heat of the moment exchange....the heat was gone. Hell, he didn't even GET HIT.

Cabrera shoved Romine back JUST to get him into range so he could throw the haymaker and sucker punch him. That's not a fight, it's premeditated assault.

Sanchez should get 3 games (appealed to 2). Yes, he took a couple cheap shots...in a situation that wouldn't ever have happened if Cabrera had just come up and taken his AB.

Betances should get nothing because there was zero intent on that pitch.  If you think there was, you're nuts. It's a 6-6 ballgame. He's been a little wild all year..just terrible timing.  I get why McCann was upset. I get (stupid as it is...warnings were in place) why Betances gets thrown out. But there is zero actual grounds for further discipline.  That's not to say MLB won't try...but if you ask what he deserves..the answer is nothing.

And Romine should get ZERO, too.  Cabrera was the aggressor, and he was just defending himself. He even had the balls to drop his mask, unlike some other catchers I might mention. ;)  What's the guy supposed to do? Drop, turtle, and take a beating? Fuck that. If they think Romine's actions deserve a suspension.....whatever number they think he deserves, they should just add those games to Cabrera's suspension.  Make it 90 games. He is the entire reason (well, besides the umpiring crew, but even then) for all of it. Every time the sides left the dugout, they should consider that on him, too, and add 10 games, each. And make his 110 game suspension contingent on 90 days of anger management classes, to boot.

Given the way he's comported himself over the last few years, I've had very little respect for Miggy. Now I have zero.  Punk ass pussy hypocrite. Talk about protecting your teammates, but when you're the target of the other team....you act like a crybaby....and what's worse, you sucker punch someone and then bitch when you get knocked around.  He should take his ball and go home til June, 2018.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on August 25, 2017, 10:22:30 AM
Uh, and Sanchez should get? And how about Betances? I freely admit I didn't see the whole thing but Sanchez got a few cheap shots in of his own. Ridiculous for all involved, umps certainly included. No way they can let things get that out of hand.

You should watch the whole thing. Right from the pitch that hit Sanchez until the Yanks TRIED (unsuccessfully, remember) to stick one up Cabrera's ass.

It was over. The Yanks pitcher got thrown out (which was stupid because the umps never issued warnings...which was the entire problem, here), Chapman had warmed up and was ready to go. Basically, all but two people in the whole stadium had gotten over it. One of them was back in the Yanks clubhouse (Joe G), and the other was stepping into the batters box.  Cabrera escalated it all over again as soon as he came to the plate. He started the "conversation" with Romine. It's pretty obvious Miggy came to the batters box with intent to punch out Romine. This wasn't a heat of the moment exchange....the heat was gone. Hell, he didn't even GET HIT.

Cabrera shoved Romine back JUST to get him into range so he could throw the haymaker and sucker punch him. That's not a fight, it's premeditated assault.

Sanchez should get 3 games (appealed to 2). Yes, he took a couple cheap shots...in a situation that wouldn't ever have happened if Cabrera had just come up and taken his AB.

Betances should get nothing because there was zero intent on that pitch.  If you think there was, you're nuts. It's a 6-6 ballgame. He's been a little wild all year..just terrible timing.  I get why McCann was upset. I get (stupid as it is...warnings were in place) why Betances gets thrown out. But there is zero actual grounds for further discipline.  That's not to say MLB won't try...but if you ask what he deserves..the answer is nothing.

And Romine should get ZERO, too.  Cabrera was the aggressor, and he was just defending himself. He even had the balls to drop his mask, unlike some other catchers I might mention. ;)  What's the guy supposed to do? Drop, turtle, and take a beating? Fuck that. If they think Romine's actions deserve a suspension.....whatever number they think he deserves, they should just add those games to Cabrera's suspension.  Make it 90 games. He is the entire reason (well, besides the umpiring crew, but even then) for all of it. Every time the sides left the dugout, they should consider that on him, too, and add 10 games, each. And make his 110 game suspension contingent on 90 days of anger management classes, to boot.

Given the way he's comported himself over the last few years, I've had very little respect for Miggy. Now I have zero.  Punk ass pussy hypocrite. Talk about protecting your teammates, but when you're the target of the other team....you act like a crybaby....and what's worse, you sucker punch someone and then bitch when you get knocked around.  He should take his ball and go home til June, 2018.



Yup... perfectly said all around... I HATE pitchers who throw at people just because they can't get him out...makes me sick... AND ON TOP OF IT... they get suspended for 5 days and don't even miss a start!!! There is nothing for them to fear so they keep doing it... especially in the AL.

Love the catcher mask dig lol.

That was one of the wildest baseball games I have ever seen...


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on August 25, 2017, 10:29:21 AM
I should also add, in relation to Betances, I feel the same way about the Tigers Smith hitting Frazier in the thigh.  I get why they threw him out, but there should be zero further discipline.  No way that was intentional!

And in both cases, the players that got hit agree. Both McCann and Frazier said they don't think they were getting thrown at. Just bad timing.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on August 25, 2017, 10:37:50 AM
Yup... perfectly said all around... I HATE pitchers who throw at people just because they can't get him out...makes me sick... AND ON TOP OF IT... they get suspended for 5 days and don't even miss a start!!! There is nothing for them to fear so they keep doing it... especially in the AL.

Love the catcher mask dig lol.

That was one of the wildest baseball games I have ever seen...

What really irks me, too, is Miggy's account of what happened at the plate. He outright lies about it. Like...bald faced lie. Give him another 10 games for that! ;)

I'm passably good at reading lips.  If you read Romine's account of what happened, and what was said....it's pretty much dead on (minus an expletive or two).

Miggy said: "You got a fucking problem with me? Do you? Do you have a fucking problem?"
Romine said something behind the mask that I can't see, stood up, took off his mask, and said "This isn't even fucking about you!"

Miggy got in his face, shouted something (back to the camera...I can't see what..but I imagine "Fuck you" is pretty close), shoved, and punched.

He went up looking to punch Romine out. Period. His panties were all in a bunch because a) He'd gotten thrown at and b) afterward, in pursuit of the umpire, Romine said to him (again, clear as day): "I'm not talking to you, man" and stepped around him. I'll say it again: Punk. Ass. Pussy. Hypocrite.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: Axl's Favorite Mechanical Bull on August 25, 2017, 03:24:05 PM
Baseball players should never ever fight.  They always end up looking like Nancies.

If a ballplayer leaves the dugout and bullpen, it should be MANDATORY to throw punches. 

They're SO TOUGH holding each other back and yelling at each other.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on August 25, 2017, 05:48:24 PM
Now Cabrera is trying to claim Judge sucker punched him in the throat.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: Axl's Favorite Mechanical Bull on August 25, 2017, 07:33:05 PM
Now Cabrera is trying to claim Judge sucker punched him in the throat.

Cabrera needs to shut the hell up, is what he needs to do.  Couldn't even land a punch and now he's crying.  You reap what you sow.

Go Dodgers.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: C0ma on August 26, 2017, 10:09:54 AM
Baseball players should never ever fight.  They always end up looking like Nancies.

If a ballplayer leaves the dugout and bullpen, it should be MANDATORY to throw punches. 

They're SO TOUGH holding each other back and yelling at each other.

Nolan Ryan disagrees...


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: Axl's Favorite Mechanical Bull on August 26, 2017, 04:59:32 PM
Baseball players should never ever fight.  They always end up looking like Nancies.

If a ballplayer leaves the dugout and bullpen, it should be MANDATORY to throw punches. 

They're SO TOUGH holding each other back and yelling at each other.

Nolan Ryan disagrees...

Yes he does.  But Nolan Ryan handled his business.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: faldor on August 26, 2017, 07:13:15 PM
Cabrera deserves 80 games for that one.

Total sucker punch and the only punches thrown.

If I were MLB, he'd be done for this season, playoffs, and 40 games of next season, too. DONE.

He'll get 10 games, appeal, and end up out 5.

Uh, and Sanchez should get? And how about Betances? I freely admit I didn't see the whole thing but Sanchez got a few cheap shots in of his own. Ridiculous for all involved, umps certainly included. No way they can let things get that out of hand.


Betances wasn't trying to get anybody ....

It's 6-6 they just tied the game....nobody thinks he hit him in the head on purpose... just really bad timing for him to be Wild which he has been all year.
It wouldn't be the first time a pitcher hit a batter with purpose and the game still in the balance. That's the beauty of it. Nobody is expecting it because the game is still on the line. There's no way anyone can say he didn't do it on purpose in my mind. Only he knows for sure and he's not going to admit it if he did. Maybe he tried to go up and in and it got away from him. Still dangerous, and I don't let him off the hook just because it was a tie game at the time.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on August 26, 2017, 08:25:53 PM
Cabrera deserves 80 games for that one.

Total sucker punch and the only punches thrown.

If I were MLB, he'd be done for this season, playoffs, and 40 games of next season, too. DONE.

He'll get 10 games, appeal, and end up out 5.

Uh, and Sanchez should get? And how about Betances? I freely admit I didn't see the whole thing but Sanchez got a few cheap shots in of his own. Ridiculous for all involved, umps certainly included. No way they can let things get that out of hand.


Betances wasn't trying to get anybody ....

It's 6-6 they just tied the game....nobody thinks he hit him in the head on purpose... just really bad timing for him to be Wild which he has been all year.
It wouldn't be the first time a pitcher hit a batter with purpose and the game still in the balance. That's the beauty of it. Nobody is expecting it because the game is still on the line. There's no way anyone can say he didn't do it on purpose in my mind. Only he knows for sure and he's not going to admit it if he did. Maybe he tried to go up and in and it got away from him. Still dangerous, and I don't let him off the hook just because it was a tie game at the time.

Sorry, but thats you being a homer.

Betances said it wasnt intentional.

Girardi says it wasnt.

The guy HE HIT said it wasnt.

And mlb said it wasnt, when levying suspensions.

Theres a lot more evidence and reason to believe it wasnt than the contrary.

Today, in a 6-2 game, he uncorked one high and tight to the screen against the m's. Him, the catcher, and the batter all looked shocked. The call was fastball, low and away. Hes done it all year. Every so often, he loses the grip early, and goes wild.

AND...you're doing the same thing: assuming intent. But with less evidence. And you're obviously assuming smith hit frazier, same game, on purpose, too. Right?



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: faldor on August 28, 2017, 12:25:15 AM
Cabrera deserves 80 games for that one.

Total sucker punch and the only punches thrown.

If I were MLB, he'd be done for this season, playoffs, and 40 games of next season, too. DONE.

He'll get 10 games, appeal, and end up out 5.

Uh, and Sanchez should get? And how about Betances? I freely admit I didn't see the whole thing but Sanchez got a few cheap shots in of his own. Ridiculous for all involved, umps certainly included. No way they can let things get that out of hand.


Betances wasn't trying to get anybody ....

It's 6-6 they just tied the game....nobody thinks he hit him in the head on purpose... just really bad timing for him to be Wild which he has been all year.
It wouldn't be the first time a pitcher hit a batter with purpose and the game still in the balance. That's the beauty of it. Nobody is expecting it because the game is still on the line. There's no way anyone can say he didn't do it on purpose in my mind. Only he knows for sure and he's not going to admit it if he did. Maybe he tried to go up and in and it got away from him. Still dangerous, and I don't let him off the hook just because it was a tie game at the time.

Sorry, but thats you being a homer.

Betances said it wasnt intentional.

Girardi says it wasnt.

The guy HE HIT said it wasnt.

And mlb said it wasnt, when levying suspensions.

Theres a lot more evidence and reason to believe it wasnt than the contrary.

Today, in a 6-2 game, he uncorked one high and tight to the screen against the m's. Him, the catcher, and the batter all looked shocked. The call was fastball, low and away. Hes done it all year. Every so often, he loses the grip early, and goes wild.

AND...you're doing the same thing: assuming intent. But with less evidence. And you're obviously assuming smith hit frazier, same game, on purpose, too. Right?


Again, I didn't see it all unfold live but yeah I wouldn't be shocked if all the batters in that game were hit on purpose. I could say the very same thing about you being a homer and thinking it wasn't on purpose because he's on your team. I'm not as obsessed with the Yankees as you may think. I really don't care whether he did or didn't do it on purpose, I'm just stating that in my opinion there could have been purpose despite what you think, what he said, what anyone else said.

Chris Sale threw behind a batter on the Orioles in an inopportune time to avenge Machado's hard slide into Pedroia. He said it wasn't on purpose, Farrell said the same, he wasn't tossed and I don't think the benches were even warned. But you're damn right I think there was intent. Kluber hit Nunez this past week with a runner on in a tie game after he went down to one knee on a swing. I thought that was purposeful too. Nunez responded with an RBI double and later a 3 run HR. After the game he said he didn't believe Kluber hit him on purpose. I'm not singling out Betances because he plays for your beloved Yankees. Don't flatter yourself. It's what I believe. Simple as that.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on August 28, 2017, 07:26:19 AM
Again, I didn't see it all unfold live but yeah I wouldn't be shocked if all the batters in that game were hit on purpose. I could say the very same thing about you being a homer and thinking it wasn't on purpose because he's on your team. I'm not as obsessed with the Yankees as you may think. I really don't care whether he did or didn't do it on purpose, I'm just stating that in my opinion there could have been purpose despite what you think, what he said, what anyone else said.

Ok, so, to be clear:

1) The pitcher says it wasn't intentional
2) Both managers say they don't think it was intentional
3) The PLAYER WHO GOT HIT says he doesn't think it was intentional
4) BOTH Home and Away announcers said, in the moment, they didn't think it was intentional.
5) EVERY professional Analyst crew (fox sports, ESPN, MLB) all say they're pretty sure it wasn't intentional
6) MLB DETERMINED it wasn't intentional when handing out fines and suspensions
7) pilferk thinks it wasn't intentional (and is applying the same standard to the Tigers pitcher who hit Frazier).

vs

1) faldor (a Sox fan) and a few Tigers homers think it was (or might be) intentional.

Fair enough. Enjoy your island. I certainly think mine has better company (if you decide you want to join us!).

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Chris Sale threw behind a batter on the Orioles in an inopportune time to avenge Machado's hard slide into Pedroia. He said it wasn't on purpose, Farrell said the same, he wasn't tossed and I don't think the benches were even warned. But you're damn right I think there was intent. Kluber hit Nunez this past week with a runner on in a tie game after he went down to one knee on a swing. I thought that was purposeful too. Nunez responded with an RBI double and later a 3 run HR. After the game he said he didn't believe Kluber hit him on purpose. I'm not singling out Betances because he plays for your beloved Yankees. Don't flatter yourself. It's what I believe. Simple as that.

Again, I'm not singling out Betances, either.  Smith (a Tiger) pegged Frazier (a Yankee) square in the thigh, same game. I don't believe there was intent, there, either.

I didn't see the Sale pegging, nor the Kluber pitch. So its hard for me to weigh in, there. But I don't think, even in the face of coincidence, that every pitch that hits someone is meant to hit them.  I think sometimes a pitcher just wants to claim the inner part of the plate, or has a mechanical issue on a particular pitch, and shit happens.

What I do know, with very little doubt, is that Betances and Smith both weren't aiming for the batters they were pitching to.  Ditto with Robertson who hit a guy in the wrist...on a check swing. Betances has uncorked wild pitches all year.  The only reason you haven't heard more about it is because...there's never anyone on base when it happens. ;)  I'd say once every other appearance, one goes back to the screen, on the right side of the plate.  Has happened vs lefties too (so, you know....the OPPOSITE side from the batter).


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: faldor on August 28, 2017, 08:46:54 AM
I don't think I'm as alone as you'd like to think. I really don't care what Girardi or Betances say. They're most likely going to say it was unintentional if it was or not. And Torre is just looking at the situation, which he always does and assuming it wasn't intentional because it was a tie game. I've seen it multiple times this year. The situation doesn't matter. These pitchers are too full of pride and put sticking up for their teammates over the actual game situation. They hope to get revenge and not get tossed because "no way he'd throw at someone with the game on the line". Then they hope they can regroup and work out of the jam.

I think he should've been suspended, quite harshly. It's dangerous to assume intent. But it's even more dangerous to hit a guy in the head. It really should be an automatic ejection and suspension regardless of the situation. Maybe that would deter pitchers from throwing up and in, especially those with shaky control to begin with. How many batters has Betances hit in the head? Was this the first? In that game, with all that went on. Seems suspect to me.

https://sports.yahoo.com/ugly-evidence-may-signal-intent-yankees-tigers-brawl-062504585.html

https://www.thescore.com/news/1358537

https://www.pressreader.com/usa/new-york-daily-news/20170825/282119226669217

I didn't realize he claimed he meant to throw a breaking ball. Did he forget midway and just uncork a 98 mph fastball instead. That's no breaking ball I've ever seen. It's pretty clear to me there was purpose behind the pitch. Did he mean to hit him in the head? I doubt that. At least I would surely hope not. He may not have meant to hit him at all. But he definitely (IMO) meant to go up and in and it got away from him. That's dangerous. Too dangerous. He got off easy and should consider himself lucky. Hopefully he's more careful in the future.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on August 28, 2017, 11:15:47 AM
I don't think I'm as alone as you'd like to think. I really don't care what Girardi or Betances say. They're most likely going to say it was unintentional if it was or not. And Torre is just looking at the situation, which he always does and assuming it wasn't intentional because it was a tie game. I've seen it multiple times this year. The situation doesn't matter. These pitchers are too full of pride and put sticking up for their teammates over the actual game situation. They hope to get revenge and not get tossed because "no way he'd throw at someone with the game on the line". Then they hope they can regroup and work out of the jam.

I think he should've been suspended, quite harshly. It's dangerous to assume intent. But it's even more dangerous to hit a guy in the head. It really should be an automatic ejection and suspension regardless of the situation. Maybe that would deter pitchers from throwing up and in, especially those with shaky control to begin with. How many batters has Betances hit in the head? Was this the first? In that game, with all that went on. Seems suspect to me.

https://sports.yahoo.com/ugly-evidence-may-signal-intent-yankees-tigers-brawl-062504585.html

Right...first read that opening paragraph.

Then realize Passans numbers are wrong.

Betances has hit 7 betters, and thrown 4 wild pitches is 49 innings.  That's a screw up every...4.5 innings.  Not to mention, wild pitches only count when there's someone on base. Again, I point out that with Betances, baserunners are relatively few.

He's confining his metrics to "fastballs". Well, I have news for Mr. Passan: No matter what MLB labeled that pitch, it wasn't actually a fastball.  His grip (and the catchers call) proves it. It was meant to be his "slurve" (I still say its a slider). It came out of his grip as...something else.

He threw the same pitch against the M's...just didn't hit anyone...and there was no one on base. Called breaking ball, 96mph over the head of the batter (who was short...and it missed by inches...though the guy sat out to avoid it anyway) to the screen.

He threw the same pitch against the Blue Jays in early July, and it cost them a game:

http://www.courant.com/sports/baseball/hc-yankees-jays-0706-20170705-story.html

FYI, the errant breaking ball they'er talking about in that situation? 95 at the screen. It also would not count as a wild pitch...because it was ball 4.

So, again, I'll tell you out right: Passans numbers are wrong, he's massively misinformed about Betances wildness, and EVEN HE ACKNOWLEDGES IN HIS FIRST PARAGRAPH IT WAS MAYBE (probably) NOT INTENTIONAL.

You're (both) reaching.

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https://www.thescore.com/news/1358537

So, the guy who wrote the "opposed" piece agreeing with you? Brandon Wile? Sox homer. You're making my point, masterfully.

https://twitter.com/bwile17?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

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https://www.pressreader.com/usa/new-york-daily-news/20170825/282119226669217

"You can argue intent".  I don't see much support for your point of view in there.....just typical Daily News tabloid sensationalist language (which is in all their articles, fyi).

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I didn't realize he claimed he meant to throw a breaking ball. Did he forget midway and just uncork a 98 mph fastball instead. That's no breaking ball I've ever seen.

He thows his "slurve" at about 92.  He's done the same thing (see article about Jays, above) at least a dozen times (and probably closing in on two), this season, that I can count and have personally witnessed.  And it's always mid to upper 90s', high right, and to the screen. Every. single. time. I swear, it's just about once ever other appearance. If it's "No breaking ball you've ever seen", you're proving my point.  Because I've seen him throw that pitch 3 times within the last week...similar velocity and results.

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It's pretty clear to me there was purpose behind the pitch. Did he mean to hit him in the head? I doubt that. At least I would surely hope not. He may not have meant to hit him at all. But he definitely (IMO) meant to go up and in and it got away from him. That's dangerous. Too dangerous. He got off easy and should consider himself lucky. Hopefully he's more careful in the future.

It's clear to you because thats what you want to see.  That pitch was supposed to be (and was called) down and away. YOU CAN LITERALLY SEE HIS SLURVE GRIP in the replay!

He's wild this season.  He was, a bit, last season, too. 

MLB agrees with me.  Everyone in sports media I've heard talk about this, now with the exception of Passan (who I often disagree with), seems to agree with me. Everyone playing in the game, that was involved in the play (on both sides) seems to agree with me.  That might not make me right...I can't read the guys mind and nor can you...but I'd say it gives me a pretty solid basis for an opinion. General concensus, at least, if not outright validation.

I also have to add, I find your conviction on this issue a little ironic, given some of our discussions about Pedro Martinez in the past. You struck me as a fan of his, during his time with the Sox....


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: faldor on August 28, 2017, 01:56:04 PM
Absolutely a fan of Pedro. I don't recall him ever hitting anyone in the head. I could be wrong. I know he went up and in plenty. All I'm saying is that if you're going to take that dangerous risk of throwing in the vicinity of someone's head then you should pay the consequences if you hit them in the head. You shouldn't get a free pass because he may not have meant to do it. He did it, that's the bottom line. And with everything surrounding the situation it was an awfully ironic time for him to have one just get away from him. I'd be saying the same thing if he played for the Pirates. It has nothing to do with the uniform he's wearing. Matt Barnes hit someone in the head earlier this year and was rightfully suspended. I didn't defend him and say he didn't mean to do it. Again, I don't think he meant to hit him in the head but he did. Can't argue those facts.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on August 29, 2017, 07:10:21 AM
Absolutely a fan of Pedro. I don't recall him ever hitting anyone in the head. I could be wrong. I know he went up and in plenty.

You. Can't. Remember. Pedro. Trying. to. Hit. Anyone. In. the. Head???

We're talking about THROWING, intentionally (and he admitted it), at a guys head? And more than once?

Wow. Just...I don't even know what to say to that response.  Actually, it speaks for itself.

What about Josh Beckett?

I mean, seriously, the Sox had 3 (if you count Clemens early career) of the most notorious head hunters in recent (if not total) MLB history.

It's just a little ironic to hear this argument from a Sox fan, given all that.

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All I'm saying is that if you're going to take that dangerous risk of throwing in the vicinity of someone's head then you should pay the consequences if you hit them in the head. You shouldn't get a free pass because he may not have meant to do it. He did it, that's the bottom line.

So, to be clear, your position is that any pitcher, in any situation, who hits a guy in the head should instantly face a suspension.

Fair enough. But that's never going to happen. And it's not the current rule, so....

Quote
And with everything surrounding the situation it was an awfully ironic time for him to have one just get away from him. I'd be saying the same thing if he played for the Pirates. It has nothing to do with the uniform he's wearing. Matt Barnes hit someone in the head earlier this year and was rightfully suspended. I didn't defend him and say he didn't mean to do it. Again, I don't think he meant to hit him in the head but he did. Can't argue those facts.

It was a terrible coincidence. Yup. But as I've demonstrated, they've been "getting away from him" with regular frequency, all season.

And he was thrown out of the game for it (and I have zero objection to that).

MLB precedent is: You don't get suspended if you weren't trying to hit someone.  Its about intent.  There was no intent for Betances (and, really, that's no longer an arguable point...the "judge" has decided that fact already).  Obviously, MLB felt there was, with Barnes (....like throwing at a guys head who the Sox think injured their second baseman with a spikes high slide). You'd have to take that differentiation up with them, if you don't think there was intent.  I didn't see the play, or the game, so am not even going to venture a guess.

I get it: NO amount of evidence is going to change your mind on Betances.



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: faldor on August 29, 2017, 08:28:32 AM
There is no "evidence" other than people's opinions. That's the silly part of this discussion. You're going on and on posting all these opinions to prove my opinion is wrong. It's my opinion, I'm entitled to it.

I said I can't remember Pedro ever hitting anyone in the head. Pedro pitched up and in, no doubt. He also had very good control. There's a difference between throwing up and in and hitting someone in the head. I'll give you a hint, it's the getting hit in the head part that's different. Betances is a little wild, which makes it that much more dangerous for him to go up and in on a batter. I have no problem with pitching inside. I have a problem with guys getting hit in the head. I also think the situation was handled real poorly by the umps. He should've been tossed right away, not after being pressured into it. In that situation regardless of perceived intent he has to be thrown out right away.

Have a lovely day.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on August 29, 2017, 08:50:34 AM
There is no "evidence" other than people's opinions. That's the silly part of this discussion. You're going on and on posting all these opinions to prove my opinion is wrong. It's my opinion, I'm entitled to it.

Thanks. This proves my point, masterfully.

I've given you data. I've given you multiple examples of Betances losing control that are exactly similar to the pitch in question (and there are many more to be found). I've given you anecdotes from people on the field. I've laid out MLBs opinion on the matter. I've given you things, OTHER THAN JUST "this is the way it should be" (which, really, is all you've contributed...along with "I didn't actually see it, live").  That's EVIDENCE.  And I could give you a mountain more, and it would be pointless.

But it's not just opinions.

But, as you just said: None of that matters. Your opinion is unshakeable in the face of anything else.  I think that sums things up perfectly. And yes, you are certainly entitled to it....as the rest of those reading the thread are entitled to discount it.

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I said I can't remember Pedro ever hitting anyone in the head. Pedro pitched up and in, no doubt. He also had very good control. There's a difference between throwing up and in and hitting someone in the head. I'll give you a hint, it's the getting hit in the head part that's different.

Pedro admitted to trying to hit people in the head. And he succeeded a few times, at least. You're saying "Since batters were ready for him to try to hit them in the heads, because he was a known head hunter, and managed to get out of the way sometimes...all is good". OK....

Betances has hit precisely one person, in his career, in the head.  His pitches have sailed over, behind, and near their heads when he loses his grip.  But precisely one has made contact.

Again, you're proving my point better than I ever could.

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Betances is a little wild, which makes it that much more dangerous for him to go up and in on a batter. I have no problem with pitching inside. I have a problem with guys getting hit in the head. I also think the situation was handled real poorly by the umps. He should've been tossed right away, not after being pressured into it. In that situation regardless of perceived intent he has to be thrown out right away.

Have a lovely day.

And I have no problem with him getting tossed. Immediately. And we agree the umps sucked, and if they had issued warnings right at the start when Sanchez got drilled.....likely none of it would have happened.

But again, if you want every pitcher suspended who hits a guy in the head, you're going to see at least one suspension a week. Maybe more. Somewhere between 20 and 30 batters get hit in the head a season...which lasts about 24 weeks.

MLB isn't going to do it.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on September 01, 2017, 12:24:46 AM
Verlander to the Astros holy shit!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on September 01, 2017, 06:20:51 AM
Verlander to the Astros holy shit!

That is a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE trade!!!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on September 01, 2017, 11:36:53 AM
Verlander to the Astros holy shit!

Sometimes trades just make perfect sense...

this falls under that category.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on September 01, 2017, 11:36:21 PM
They needed him to be a legit contender this year.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: faldor on September 05, 2017, 05:06:37 PM
There is no "evidence" other than people's opinions. That's the silly part of this discussion. You're going on and on posting all these opinions to prove my opinion is wrong. It's my opinion, I'm entitled to it.

Thanks. This proves my point, masterfully.

I've given you data. I've given you multiple examples of Betances losing control that are exactly similar to the pitch in question (and there are many more to be found). I've given you anecdotes from people on the field. I've laid out MLBs opinion on the matter. I've given you things, OTHER THAN JUST "this is the way it should be" (which, really, is all you've contributed...along with "I didn't actually see it, live").  That's EVIDENCE.  And I could give you a mountain more, and it would be pointless.

But it's not just opinions.

But, as you just said: None of that matters. Your opinion is unshakeable in the face of anything else.  I think that sums things up perfectly. And yes, you are certainly entitled to it....as the rest of those reading the thread are entitled to discount it.

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I said I can't remember Pedro ever hitting anyone in the head. Pedro pitched up and in, no doubt. He also had very good control. There's a difference between throwing up and in and hitting someone in the head. I'll give you a hint, it's the getting hit in the head part that's different.

Pedro admitted to trying to hit people in the head. And he succeeded a few times, at least. You're saying "Since batters were ready for him to try to hit them in the heads, because he was a known head hunter, and managed to get out of the way sometimes...all is good". OK....

Betances has hit precisely one person, in his career, in the head.  His pitches have sailed over, behind, and near their heads when he loses his grip.  But precisely one has made contact.

Again, you're proving my point better than I ever could.

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Betances is a little wild, which makes it that much more dangerous for him to go up and in on a batter. I have no problem with pitching inside. I have a problem with guys getting hit in the head. I also think the situation was handled real poorly by the umps. He should've been tossed right away, not after being pressured into it. In that situation regardless of perceived intent he has to be thrown out right away.

Have a lovely day.

And I have no problem with him getting tossed. Immediately. And we agree the umps sucked, and if they had issued warnings right at the start when Sanchez got drilled.....likely none of it would have happened.

But again, if you want every pitcher suspended who hits a guy in the head, you're going to see at least one suspension a week. Maybe more. Somewhere between 20 and 30 batters get hit in the head a season...which lasts about 24 weeks.

MLB isn't going to do it.
I don't remember Pedro saying he tried to hit anyone in the head. Do you have EVIDENCE of that? I'm sorry for using logic that it looked a little sketchy that Betances hit a guy in the head after multiple guys had been hit prior and immediately acted like he meant to throw a breaking ball that somehow went 98 mph. Despite all the EVIDENCE and quantifiable data you've posted. I ain't buying it. You chose to, that's fine with me. I'm well past it. Sanchez somehow got his suspension lowered to 3 games. Not sure what the rationale is there but, it is what it is.

One final thing. I don't want to hear you say another bad word about Pedro since he helped Severino become the elite pitcher he's been this year by helping him craft his changeup. You should be kissing the ground that Pedro walks on. I think that's a story that hasn't gotten enough pub and somehow Pedro gets a pass on it because he helped a countryman of his. The guy still holds some sort of position with the Sox but he's helping out a Yankees pitcher in the offseason? You're welcome for that.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: faldor on September 05, 2017, 05:12:54 PM
I figure I'd get ahead of this and post it now.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/sports/baseball/boston-red-sox-stealing-signs-yankees.html

Without getting too deep into this, their sign stealing hasn't worked very well this year as their offense has been quite anemic. I guess it did work for the series in question though and maybe the one time they knocked Severino around. That kind of came out of nowhere. Other than that, the supposed stealing of signs has been a giant failure this season.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on September 06, 2017, 11:52:14 AM
I fell asleep last night around 10... Boston was losing 2-0 and the Yanks were up 6-2...


wtf lol


As for the stealing signs.... look I hate everything about the Redsox...especially the fucking crybaby manager who complains after EVERY SINGLE pitch.... but I can't get too hot and bothered about this.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on September 06, 2017, 01:34:46 PM
I don't remember Pedro saying he tried to hit anyone in the head. Do you have EVIDENCE of that?

Wow..that's SOME selective memory you got going on there:

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/pedro-martinez-in-book-when-i-hit-a-batter-it-was-90-percent-intentional/  (and he hit people in the head so...logic and math would dictate...he meant to do it, right?)

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox/clubhouse_insider/2017/04/pedro_martinez_says_he_would_have_drilled_manny_machado_in  (note: He says "you RARELY saw me go up to the head..not "you never"...because he hit guys, and threw at guys, in the head before)

http://archive.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2003/10/13/martinezs_reign_should_end/

And, you know, the incident where he POINTED TO HIS HEAD AND THREATENED TO THROW AT SOMEONE?! But, that's right...he meant "I'm gonna remember this".   ::)

Seriously, this is exactly my point.  You "can't remember" when it's your guy. But you instantly assume the worst when it's "the other guy".

I mean, that's really all that needs to be said, right?

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I'm sorry for using logic that it looked a little sketchy that Betances hit a guy in the head after multiple guys had been hit prior and immediately acted like he meant to throw a breaking ball that somehow went 98 mph. Despite all the EVIDENCE and quantifiable data you've posted. I ain't buying it. You chose to, that's fine with me. I'm well past it.

1) You're not using logic.  Logic would take into account the other factors I've outlined when forming your opinion. And listening to the guys on the field. And taking into account the game situation.  You aren't doing any of that. You're simply guessing Betances intent, based on....what, exactly? Something you saw on replay hours later? OK...fair enough. You are certainly entitled to that opinion.  But it's also fair to color that opinion, no? To add some context to it from someone with a different viewpoint?

2) You're "well past it" but are resurrecting a week old response? OK.....

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Sanchez somehow got his suspension lowered to 3 games. Not sure what the rationale is there but, it is what it is.

And Miggy's was reduced to 6.

And Smith's was reduced to 3.

Everyone involved got a game cut just for filing. It's like the standard MLB consolation prize on appeals.

Romine will likewise probably get his cut to 1...which they'll announce tomorrow (or Friday, if the game is rained out tonight), after Sanchez has completed his suspension.

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One final thing. I don't want to hear you say another bad word about Pedro since he helped Severino become the elite pitcher he's been this year by helping him craft his changeup. You should be kissing the ground that Pedro walks on. I think that's a story that hasn't gotten enough pub and somehow Pedro gets a pass on it because he helped a countryman of his. The guy still holds some sort of position with the Sox but he's helping out a Yankees pitcher in the offseason? You're welcome for that.

He was, is, and always be a punk.  I don't care if he helps Sevy win a Cy Young.  He was a punk on the expos. A punk on the Sox. A punk on the Phillies.  The fact he's a talented pitcher doesn't change his character on the field. Nor does the fact he decided to help someone who happens to be a Yankee. Miggy could show Judge the secrets to great hitting (and I mean a baseball..not his wife), and Miggy would still be a punk.

But apparently being a punk when he's on "your" team is fine....and deserves every benefit of every doubt. I mean, when the guy COMES OUT and admits to headhunting and going after people on a regular basis...he's just misunderstood. Right? But being a little wild, with no history of actually plunking people anywhere on their bodies, intentionally, means an instant assumption of bad intent.  The mind boggles at that "logic".


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on September 06, 2017, 01:36:11 PM
I figure I'd get ahead of this and post it now.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/sports/baseball/boston-red-sox-stealing-signs-yankees.html

Without getting too deep into this, their sign stealing hasn't worked very well this year as their offense has been quite anemic. I guess it did work for the series in question though and maybe the one time they knocked Severino around. That kind of came out of nowhere. Other than that, the supposed stealing of signs has been a giant failure this season.

I'm not too dusted up over this, tbh.  MLB seems a little more concerned, though.

Besides, the rest of the country is so used to Boston teams cheating, I'm not even sure why this is a story. :P


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: faldor on September 09, 2017, 01:10:51 PM
I don't remember Pedro saying he tried to hit anyone in the head. Do you have EVIDENCE of that?

Wow..that's SOME selective memory you got going on there:

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/pedro-martinez-in-book-when-i-hit-a-batter-it-was-90-percent-intentional/  (and he hit people in the head so...logic and math would dictate...he meant to do it, right?)

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox/clubhouse_insider/2017/04/pedro_martinez_says_he_would_have_drilled_manny_machado_in  (note: He says "you RARELY saw me go up to the head..not "you never"...because he hit guys, and threw at guys, in the head before)

http://archive.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2003/10/13/martinezs_reign_should_end/

And, you know, the incident where he POINTED TO HIS HEAD AND THREATENED TO THROW AT SOMEONE?! But, that's right...he meant "I'm gonna remember this".   ::)

Seriously, this is exactly my point.  You "can't remember" when it's your guy. But you instantly assume the worst when it's "the other guy".

I mean, that's really all that needs to be said, right?

Quote
I'm sorry for using logic that it looked a little sketchy that Betances hit a guy in the head after multiple guys had been hit prior and immediately acted like he meant to throw a breaking ball that somehow went 98 mph. Despite all the EVIDENCE and quantifiable data you've posted. I ain't buying it. You chose to, that's fine with me. I'm well past it.

1) You're not using logic.  Logic would take into account the other factors I've outlined when forming your opinion. And listening to the guys on the field. And taking into account the game situation.  You aren't doing any of that. You're simply guessing Betances intent, based on....what, exactly? Something you saw on replay hours later? OK...fair enough. You are certainly entitled to that opinion.  But it's also fair to color that opinion, no? To add some context to it from someone with a different viewpoint?

2) You're "well past it" but are resurrecting a week old response? OK.....

Quote
Sanchez somehow got his suspension lowered to 3 games. Not sure what the rationale is there but, it is what it is.

And Miggy's was reduced to 6.

And Smith's was reduced to 3.

Everyone involved got a game cut just for filing. It's like the standard MLB consolation prize on appeals.

Romine will likewise probably get his cut to 1...which they'll announce tomorrow (or Friday, if the game is rained out tonight), after Sanchez has completed his suspension.

Quote
One final thing. I don't want to hear you say another bad word about Pedro since he helped Severino become the elite pitcher he's been this year by helping him craft his changeup. You should be kissing the ground that Pedro walks on. I think that's a story that hasn't gotten enough pub and somehow Pedro gets a pass on it because he helped a countryman of his. The guy still holds some sort of position with the Sox but he's helping out a Yankees pitcher in the offseason? You're welcome for that.

He was, is, and always be a punk.  I don't care if he helps Sevy win a Cy Young.  He was a punk on the expos. A punk on the Sox. A punk on the Phillies.  The fact he's a talented pitcher doesn't change his character on the field. Nor does the fact he decided to help someone who happens to be a Yankee. Miggy could show Judge the secrets to great hitting (and I mean a baseball..not his wife), and Miggy would still be a punk.

But apparently being a punk when he's on "your" team is fine....and deserves every benefit of every doubt. I mean, when the guy COMES OUT and admits to headhunting and going after people on a regular basis...he's just misunderstood. Right? But being a little wild, with no history of actually plunking people anywhere on their bodies, intentionally, means an instant assumption of bad intent.  The mind boggles at that "logic".
I guess I did forget the pointing at the head. Ok, you got me on that one. Did he though ever actually hit someone in the head in his career? I never said he didn't pitch up and in. He obviously had great control, which made it pretty clear there was purpose to it when batters were hit. Although I can't believe he hit Gerald Williams on purpose when he had a no hitter going and he charged the mound. I think Pedro said a lot of things to talk tough. Maybe he did legitimately throw at people's heads instead of just in the vicinity. If so, thankfully he never connected. Or did he? I'm still waiting for an answer to that.

I don't have the time or energy to argue back and forth with you every day, so that's why there's a delay in my responses.

And I am using logic, you just don't see it the way I do. That's fine, but don't tell me what I think is wrong. You want to believe no pitcher in baseball has ever thrown at someone because the game situation didn't dictate it, fine. I'll tell you I've seen it three times this season alone, including Betances, Sale, and Kluber. Joe Torre has loudly let it be known that he factors in game situations when handing out these punishments so a pitcher has the blueprint if they want to drill someone and not get suspended. Hit someone in a tie or close game and you won't be punished. That's all you need to do.

I don't hate Betances, I don't think he was trying to hit McCann in the head. I do think he meant to hit him and it got away from him. I don't believe for one second that he meant to throw a curve instead. I believe he should've been thrown out immediately and suspended based on what went on in the game as a whole, not because it was a tie game at the time. And that's that.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on September 11, 2017, 08:21:10 AM
I guess I did forget the pointing at the head. Ok, you got me on that one. Did he though ever actually hit someone in the head in his career? I never said he didn't pitch up and in. He obviously had great control, which made it pretty clear there was purpose to it when batters were hit. Although I can't believe he hit Gerald Williams on purpose when he had a no hitter going and he charged the mound. I think Pedro said a lot of things to talk tough. Maybe he did legitimately throw at people's heads instead of just in the vicinity. If so, thankfully he never connected. Or did he? I'm still waiting for an answer to that.

I've answered you half a dozen times.

Yes, he hit guys in the head.  At least 4 I can think of off the top of my head (because I saw them). One as an Expo. Two as a Sox pitcher (one of them was a Yankee, one was a Tiger). One as a Philly. And those are just the ones I saw. He also hit a guy in the back of the neck, has one famous incident where he THREATENED to throw at someone's head (that you forgot) and another where he admits to throwing at a guys head and missing.

Were they intentional? "When I hit a batter, it was 90% intentional". 

I don't have video for you...but then, there isn't video on the net of every HBP he ever threw, either.

Also:

https://www.sbnation.com/2013/2/20/4009048/pedro-martinez-hit-batters-new-helmets-mlb-concussions

Quote
In the 2003 American League Championship Series, Red Sox vs. Yankees, Mart?nez threw at Garc?a's head but missed. A bit later, Roger Clemens threw at Manny Ram?rez's head but missed.

That's not speculation, by the way.  That's Pedro admitting it in his book, on twitter, and every time they talk about it on the MLB network.  Keep in mind, this is not the ACTUAL famous drilling in the ribs that's popular all over youtube.  This is the "behind the head, hit the bat" incident.

THIS is why I'm so incredulous about your memory, and you discounting that he threw at, and hit, people in the head.  A couple of these are like "Pedro Highlight reel" moments.

Anyway, I'm done.  I think we've colored your opinion all we need to at this point.

Logic: "Betances did it because I think he did."  We got it.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on September 11, 2017, 09:34:36 AM
Pedro also drilled Jeter and Soriano in the hands back to back to start a game once...and admitted he hit them on purpose.



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: faldor on September 11, 2017, 01:04:47 PM
I guess I did forget the pointing at the head. Ok, you got me on that one. Did he though ever actually hit someone in the head in his career? I never said he didn't pitch up and in. He obviously had great control, which made it pretty clear there was purpose to it when batters were hit. Although I can't believe he hit Gerald Williams on purpose when he had a no hitter going and he charged the mound. I think Pedro said a lot of things to talk tough. Maybe he did legitimately throw at people's heads instead of just in the vicinity. If so, thankfully he never connected. Or did he? I'm still waiting for an answer to that.

I've answered you half a dozen times.

Yes, he hit guys in the head.  At least 4 I can think of off the top of my head (because I saw them). One as an Expo. Two as a Sox pitcher (one of them was a Yankee, one was a Tiger). One as a Philly. And those are just the ones I saw. He also hit a guy in the back of the neck, has one famous incident where he THREATENED to throw at someone's head (that you forgot) and another where he admits to throwing at a guys head and missing.

Were they intentional? "When I hit a batter, it was 90% intentional". 

I don't have video for you...but then, there isn't video on the net of every HBP he ever threw, either.

Also:

https://www.sbnation.com/2013/2/20/4009048/pedro-martinez-hit-batters-new-helmets-mlb-concussions

Quote
In the 2003 American League Championship Series, Red Sox vs. Yankees, Mart?nez threw at Garc?a's head but missed. A bit later, Roger Clemens threw at Manny Ram?rez's head but missed.

That's not speculation, by the way.  That's Pedro admitting it in his book, on twitter, and every time they talk about it on the MLB network.  Keep in mind, this is not the ACTUAL famous drilling in the ribs that's popular all over youtube.  This is the "behind the head, hit the bat" incident.

THIS is why I'm so incredulous about your memory, and you discounting that he threw at, and hit, people in the head.  A couple of these are like "Pedro Highlight reel" moments.

Anyway, I'm done.  I think we've colored your opinion all we need to at this point.

Logic: "Betances did it because I think he did."  We got it.
Right, which is no different than you thinking that Betances didn't do it on purpose because you didn't think he did. I'm glad we finally established that after going back and forth for weeks. You brought Pedro into this and changed the argument by the way. Crafty work on your part.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: faldor on September 11, 2017, 01:11:11 PM
Pedro also drilled Jeter and Soriano in the hands back to back to start a game once...and admitted he hit them on purpose.


Yes he did. Again, I never claimed Pedro never hit guys on purpose. I simply do not recall him hitting anyone in the head. Pilferk says it happened though so I guess we have to believe him. I am quite certain that he never hit anyone in the head under similar circumstances to Betances.

Listen, intentional or not Betances should have been thrown out without hesitation and given a token suspension like the rest of the guys. There was too much going on in that game to let anything slide. Did the Tigers pitcher who hit Frazier afterwards get thrown out or suspended? He should have too if he didn't.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on September 11, 2017, 02:43:00 PM
Pedro also drilled Jeter and Soriano in the hands back to back to start a game once...and admitted he hit them on purpose.


Yes he did. Again, I never claimed Pedro never hit guys on purpose. I simply do not recall him hitting anyone in the head. Pilferk says it happened though so I guess we have to believe him. I am quite certain that he never hit anyone in the head under similar circumstances to Betances.

Listen, intentional or not Betances should have been thrown out without hesitation and given a token suspension like the rest of the guys. There was too much going on in that game to let anything slide. Did the Tigers pitcher who hit Frazier afterwards get thrown out or suspended? He should have too if he didn't.


Up and In is Up and In...dangerous to be throwing at peoples hands...

That was one of the wildest games I had seen in terms of that kind of thing... we of course have no way of knowing what goes on inside somebody's head, and not to repeat what has already been said....it seems unlikely due to the game circumstance that Betances was trying to hit that batter at all.

Throw him out regardless... If that makes you feel better... I don't know.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on September 12, 2017, 06:34:11 AM
Right, which is no different than you thinking that Betances didn't do it on purpose because you didn't think he did. I'm glad we finally established that after going back and forth for weeks. You brought Pedro into this and changed the argument by the way. Crafty work on your part.

Except, it's not.

Let me lay it out for you:

Me: "He didn't do it because a), b), c), d) and e)."  I gave you examples, and reasons, and history.

You: "Yes he did. I have no actual reasons why or evidence or examples of him doing it in the past or...well, anything. He just did. And you're never going to change my mind." You contributed nothing other than repeating that its your opinion and your right to it, over and over.  Which is true.  But it colors that opinion for everyone else reading, too.

Pedro was an example of your hypocrisy. It didn't change the conversation. It further proved my point. And you've continued, by trying to find any reason you can to deny it, to prove that point. When it's not "your guy", it's torches and pitchforks. When it's "your guy", it's "I don't recall" and "He didn't mean it" and "He didn't do that in the exact same specific situation".

So, you're right. Going back and forth is useless. Basically because your "forth" is sticking your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes, and loudly chanting "blah blah blah".




Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on September 12, 2017, 06:44:50 AM
Pedro also drilled Jeter and Soriano in the hands back to back to start a game once...and admitted he hit them on purpose.


Yes he did. Again, I never claimed Pedro never hit guys on purpose. I simply do not recall him hitting anyone in the head. Pilferk says it happened though so I guess we have to believe him. I am quite certain that he never hit anyone in the head under similar circumstances to Betances.

Listen, intentional or not Betances should have been thrown out without hesitation and given a token suspension like the rest of the guys. There was too much going on in that game to let anything slide. Did the Tigers pitcher who hit Frazier afterwards get thrown out or suspended? He should have too if he didn't.


Up and In is Up and In...dangerous to be throwing at peoples hands...

That was one of the wildest games I had seen in terms of that kind of thing... we of course have no way of knowing what goes on inside somebody's head, and not to repeat what has already been said....it seems unlikely due to the game circumstance that Betances was trying to hit that batter at all.

Throw him out regardless... If that makes you feel better... I don't know.

Agree, on all counts.  I get why he was tossed, and had no issue with it. But everything considered, that's where it ends.

It was likely not intentional, by any reasonable and objective measure.  He's STILL being wild and having a hard time with the zone.  And he sailed another one a couple days ago that was, if the batter didn't dive, chin high (though maybe behind...and sailed to the backstop).  Same thing...that slurve grip is being problematic for him right now.

Also, I think at this point we know what faldors assurances about "never hitting a guy in the head in those circumstances" is worth, as his memory regarding Pedro appears a bit spotty. ;)  And, as you point out, a ball at the head is at the head.

I'll also say, again: I would not object to a short suspension, or fine, to ANY pitcher who hits a batter in the head, for ANY reason (even accident). Just eliminate the intent determination altogether. With today's concussion awareness, it would make sense.  But MLB will NOT do it. The MLBPA will NOT agree to it.  They do not want to hand out 20 to 30 suspensions a year for mostly accidental pitches. And, honestly, I don't think it lowers that number any even if they did.  It would just be "for show".  Pitches sometimes get away from guys. It happens.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on September 25, 2017, 03:33:28 PM
Judge just broke the Rookie home run record with his 50th bomb.

After a HORRIFIC 6+ weeks slump, he seems to have woken up for September.  He's hitting .305 with 14 homers in September.....

And people are starting to wonder, again, if he wins the AL MVP.  IDK about that....rookie of the year seems like a no brainer....but he DOES have the exact same WAR as Jose Altuve.

I don't think he wins it, but the fact he's being mentioned is pretty surreal.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on September 25, 2017, 06:11:22 PM
He will be unanimous ROY for sure. MVP? I don't know i still think Altuve gets it but it'll be closer then we thought going into September.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on September 26, 2017, 09:06:07 AM
He will be unanimous ROY for sure. MVP? I don't know i still think Altuve gets it but it'll be closer then we thought going into September.

I think Altuve is VERY popular within the baseball community... and they will probably hold the 6 week slump against Judge.. so I think Altuve wins.

I would argue that Judge was more valuable to the Yankees than Altuve is to Houston.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on September 26, 2017, 08:20:39 PM
Can't disagree with you but all the voters will see is the post all star game slump.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on September 29, 2017, 11:53:50 AM
These playoffs have the potential to be insane... I think assuming Arizona nd the Yankees win the WC games...only because theya re the favorites... I really think all 8 teams have a chance to win the WS.

Some really really really good teams. Dodgers, Nats, Cubs, Indians, Astros, Sox... all have squads... and Yankees and Arizona.. if pitching gets hot... why not them too.

Should be fun...

as a Yankee fan... just beat Minnesota.... please.... lol. Then it's all gravy.




Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on September 29, 2017, 08:34:51 PM
I still think the teams to beat are the Indians/Astros/Cubs/Nats.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on September 30, 2017, 10:35:33 PM
So the Yankees and Twins get to play one game for the right to get their asses handed to them by Cleveland.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on October 04, 2017, 10:31:40 AM
So the Yankees and Twins get to play one game for the right to get their asses handed to them by Cleveland.

Pretty much (good job Yanks!).

But I mean...winning the AL East gets you the honor of getting your ass handed to you by the Astros, in all likelihood.  I actually like the Yanks matchups against Cleveland vs the Yanks matchups vs Houston (they both suck, but the Indians matchup sucks less).

And the Sox matchup AWFUL against the 'stros.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on October 04, 2017, 12:55:37 PM
So the Yankees and Twins get to play one game for the right to get their asses handed to them by Cleveland.

Pretty much (good job Yanks!).

But I mean...winning the AL East gets you the honor of getting your ass handed to you by the Astros, in all likelihood.  I actually like the Yanks matchups against Cleveland vs the Yanks matchups vs Houston (they both suck, but the Indians matchup sucks less).

And the Sox matchup AWFUL against the 'stros.

Last nights win was all I wanted ... it's now a free roll for us!


I see no reason why we can't steal game 1 with some momentum against Bauer and then who knows.

I'm pumped!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on October 04, 2017, 01:33:33 PM
So the Yankees and Twins get to play one game for the right to get their asses handed to them by Cleveland.

Pretty much (good job Yanks!).

But I mean...winning the AL East gets you the honor of getting your ass handed to you by the Astros, in all likelihood.  I actually like the Yanks matchups against Cleveland vs the Yanks matchups vs Houston (they both suck, but the Indians matchup sucks less).

And the Sox matchup AWFUL against the 'stros.

Last nights win was all I wanted ... it's now a free roll for us!


I see no reason why we can't steal game 1 with some momentum against Bauer and then who knows.

I'm pumped!

Agree.

Last night pretty much was "enough" for me, too.  To be honest, I didn't expect even THAT much this year.  So them making the ALDS is pretty much the whip cream on top of the sundae that was this season.

If they can take game one, in Cleveland, all bets are off.  They then need to play .500 baseball over the next 4 to win the series....with 2 home games in that mix.  I think they can do that.

If they lose game 1, don't like their chances of taking 3 of 4, especially with Kubel going in game 2.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on October 05, 2017, 07:45:16 PM
Sox beat up by the 'stros.

3 batters in to the Indians/Yankees and the ump is already proving he can't call balls and strikes. Hope the Yanks get those calls below and inside the zone!  Because those are NOT strikes.

Yup, totally inconsistent strike zone between the two teams.  Crowd umping at it's finest.

Look, I expect the Yanks to lose here, but I don't think the umps need to help out.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on October 10, 2017, 03:47:18 PM
Welp.....

Game 2 was absolutely devastating..... Couldn't eat or sleep!

This should be over and done with... but if you told me we'd be in this game 5 with a chance... I would have signed...

Lets goooooooooooo


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on October 10, 2017, 10:21:26 PM
Time to pray Kluber has an off night.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on October 11, 2017, 07:53:56 AM
Welp.....

Game 2 was absolutely devastating..... Couldn't eat or sleep!

This should be over and done with... but if you told me we'd be in this game 5 with a chance... I would have signed...

Lets goooooooooooo

It just ticks me off. Girardi reviews that foul tip and EVERYTHING breaks the same, and the Yanks win the series 3-1.  Now...likely it DOESN'T break the same (Cleveland would have pitched differently, maybe), but its still frustrating.

I'll take the game 5.  But I will never forget/forgive that lapse in judgement by Girardi.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on October 11, 2017, 08:00:40 AM
Time to pray Kluber has an off night.

....again.  Because he was not good in game 2.

I don't think we can count on another off game in game 5. It would be nice, but...

CCs gonna have to put up zeros for 5 or 6, and then we're gonna have to ride our bullpen, and pray for a "bird" again.

We'll see.  Watch, it'll end up another 9-8 extra innings slugfest.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on October 11, 2017, 09:01:29 AM
Welp.....

Game 2 was absolutely devastating..... Couldn't eat or sleep!

This should be over and done with... but if you told me we'd be in this game 5 with a chance... I would have signed...

Lets goooooooooooo

It just ticks me off. Girardi reviews that foul tip and EVERYTHING breaks the same, and the Yanks win the series 3-1.  Now...likely it DOESN'T break the same (Cleveland would have pitched differently, maybe), but its still frustrating.

I'll take the game 5.  But I will never forget/forgive that lapse in judgement by Girardi.


I didn't want to go in to it... I was glad when I saw nobody brought it up the day after... but I completely agree.. it's sickening.. and unless they win tonight... I will never get over it...

Forget the fact that he ran out there to get CC entirely way too early.. and it's not second guessing.. because I was screaming at the time.

Like you said .. he challenges everything.... but this... it's hard to explain.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on October 11, 2017, 10:10:54 AM
Sox not bringing Farrell back. Which I think is a little odd, given his success.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on October 11, 2017, 11:30:05 AM
Sox not bringing Farrell back. Which I think is a little odd, given his success.

Sounded like it was inevitable since they lost... he rubs people the wrong way I gather.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on October 11, 2017, 05:15:48 PM
This version of Hitchcocks The Birds has an awful lot of guys wearing MLB uniforms in it.....


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on October 11, 2017, 08:58:35 PM
Holy Fuck Weasels I can not believe I saw what I just saw. Double Jacks by didi early....WAY early. But...wow!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on October 11, 2017, 11:35:36 PM
And Gardy with an epic at bat to give Chapman room to breathe.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on October 12, 2017, 06:29:58 AM
I can. not. believe. what happened last night.

Houston, here come the Yanks.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on October 12, 2017, 07:55:18 AM
I'm not gonna lie, Houston scares the shit out of me.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on October 12, 2017, 08:47:49 AM
I'm not gonna lie, Houston scares the shit out of me.

Yeah, so did Cleveland. ;)

I have to say, barring one Girardi non-challenge, the Yanks basically beat Cleveland 4 in a row.  That's impressive.

Houston has had their number all year.  I don't have high hopes. But I didn't think they could manage to get past the Indians, either.  They were THAT good, all year.

Everything after getting into the ALDS was/is gravy.  Nobody expected this team to do ANYTHING this year.  An ALCS appearance seems like a miracle.  And maybe that explains why they Yanks are doing so well: They're loose and playing with house money, while the other teams are feeling the pressure.  I don't know.

All I know is they have at least 4 more games in their season.  Which is about 6 more than I expected they'd have a week or so ago.  Good enough for me!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on October 12, 2017, 08:55:34 AM
I can. not. believe. what happened last night.

Houston, here come the Yanks.


I was at MSG last night.... but I obviously had my eye on the phone the whole time... and I got a gazillion texts during the game...

Derek Jeter might own the marlins... but SIR DIDIIII OWNS NEW YORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on October 12, 2017, 09:00:14 AM
I'm not gonna lie, Houston scares the shit out of me.

Yeah, so did Cleveland. ;)

I have to say, barring one Girardi non-challenge, the Yanks basically beat Cleveland 4 in a row.  That's impressive.

Houston has had their number all year.  I don't have high hopes. But I didn't think they could manage to get past the Indians, either.  They were THAT good, all year.

Everything after getting into the ALDS was/is gravy.  Nobody expected this team to do ANYTHING this year.  An ALCS appearance seems like a miracle.  And maybe that explains why they Yanks are doing so well: They're loose and playing with house money, while the other teams are feeling the pressure.  I don't know.

All I know is they have at least 4 more games in their season.  Which is about 6 more than I expected they'd have a week or so ago.  Good enough for me!


At this point.... WHY NOT US

Houston's lineup is scarier than Cleveland... but yeah... at this point... lets go... lets win it all...why not..

One thing is the Houston pen is NOT good... if we can make it a bullpen battle... I really believe we can win... we beat Cleveland basically 4 in a row with the middle of order doing nothing....

It feels like we might never score a run off Keuchel.... but if we somehow someway steal one vs him... lets go back tot he world series!


I'm all over the place...but im so jacked up... I am also going to Vegas next week for my best friends wedding... so between the GNR shows at MSG this week... the Yankees.. and that... hopefully I am watching game 7 at Cesar's Palace next Saturday night!

Let's go!



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: Falcon on October 12, 2017, 02:56:35 PM
Good luck in the ALCS guys!!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on October 12, 2017, 07:38:31 PM

At this point.... WHY NOT US

Houston's lineup is scarier than Cleveland... but yeah... at this point... lets go... lets win it all...why not..

One thing is the Houston pen is NOT good... if we can make it a bullpen battle... I really believe we can win... we beat Cleveland basically 4 in a row with the middle of order doing nothing....

It feels like we might never score a run off Keuchel.... but if we somehow someway steal one vs him... lets go back tot he world series!


I'm all over the place...but im so jacked up... I am also going to Vegas next week for my best friends wedding... so between the GNR shows at MSG this week... the Yankees.. and that... hopefully I am watching game 7 at Cesar's Palace next Saturday night!

Let's go!



I like the Yanks 2-4 starters (Severio, CC, Gray) over Houston's.

I think Tanaka as #1 makes perfect sense. If he's stellar, great. If not, fine.  Because it makes the next 3 matchups better.

I like Houston's lineup better, top to bottom.

I like the Yanks bullpen AND defense better.

So we'll see.  I give Houston a SLIGHT edge, but then...I thought the Indians would win in 4, so what do I know.

I DO know that Judge and/or Sanchez are going to have to wake the fuck up for this series.  They managed Cleveland without them.  I don't think they can do the same vs Houston.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on October 13, 2017, 09:19:23 AM

At this point.... WHY NOT US

Houston's lineup is scarier than Cleveland... but yeah... at this point... lets go... lets win it all...why not..

One thing is the Houston pen is NOT good... if we can make it a bullpen battle... I really believe we can win... we beat Cleveland basically 4 in a row with the middle of order doing nothing....

It feels like we might never score a run off Keuchel.... but if we somehow someway steal one vs him... lets go back tot he world series!


I'm all over the place...but im so jacked up... I am also going to Vegas next week for my best friends wedding... so between the GNR shows at MSG this week... the Yankees.. and that... hopefully I am watching game 7 at Cesar's Palace next Saturday night!

Let's go!



I like the Yanks 2-4 starters (Severio, CC, Gray) over Houston's.

I think Tanaka as #1 makes perfect sense. If he's stellar, great. If not, fine.  Because it makes the next 3 matchups better.

I like Houston's lineup better, top to bottom.

I like the Yanks bullpen AND defense better.

So we'll see.  I give Houston a SLIGHT edge, but then...I thought the Indians would win in 4, so what do I know.

I DO know that Judge and/or Sanchez are going to have to wake the fuck up for this series.  They managed Cleveland without them.  I don't think they can do the same vs Houston.

Judge can't be any worse right?

I think the Yankees will pound on those 3 and 4 starters for Houston in the Bronx... so let's just not go down 0-2 and we have a great shot here...

This team is not unbeatable.



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on October 17, 2017, 08:47:48 PM
Houston we have a problem.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on October 18, 2017, 11:01:52 AM
Houston we have a problem.

We'll get a better sense of that around 5 PM tonight. Because the Yanks still have to figure out how to hit Keuchel or Verlander....or they go home.

I'm encouraged by the fact the Astros haven't seemed to figure out how to hit the ball, either....and their bullpen seems suspect at best. Judge seems to have woken up at the best possible time (that home cooking seems to be helping).

If they win tonight, I think they win the series.  That's the rub. I think they can take 1 of 2 in Houston.

If they lose tonight.....IDK.  Can they win 2 games in Houston, with Verlander on the mound for one of them?  The Yanks have handled him before, but he looks like a new pitcher since joining the Astros.  I'd say there's a good chance they can't.

BUT, honestly, it's a competitive series.  Its now a best of 3 and will go AT LEAST 6.  The Yanks have already outpaced any reasonable expectations for this year.  So as crazy and anxious as I get watching the games, I try to keep that in mind.  And once the season ends (assuming they're not hoisting the WS trophy), it'll be a LOT easier to make peace with that ending, considering.

Also, if these are the best umps in the game calling balls and strikes, this game has a problem.  BOTH series have suffered from VERY poor plate calling, and inconsistent strike zones. Not 90% right...which I can live with...but more like 60% called strikes are right.  Too many outside and low and away balls being called strikes.  And no, not just on Judge (though at some point that kid has to speak up and give an ump hell...not now, but certainly next season and early).



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on October 18, 2017, 08:32:00 PM
How ya feel now Pilf?


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on October 18, 2017, 08:57:20 PM
How ya feel now Pilf?

A LOT better!!!

Bring on VERLANDER!! ;)

I don't know if they implanted a new bionic elbow into Tanaka or what, but he touched 95 a few times tonight (something he hasn't done in years) AND was pretty much locating every pitch perfectly.  If his defense hadn't failed him a couple of times.....his numbers would have been even better! Just awesome.

Also, I just watched David Ortiz, on the FS1 postgame, do the Sterling "The YAAAANNNNNKKKKKEEEEEEES WIIIIIIN!" schtick, and my life is pretty much complete.

I want that on video, so I can link it forever!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on October 18, 2017, 09:01:17 PM
Is this real life?


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on October 18, 2017, 09:17:29 PM
Is this real life?

...or is this just fantasy?

I legit quoted that line to both Micheal Kay and Jack Curry on twitter.

I'm almost....in shock. In the best possible way, but still....


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on October 18, 2017, 10:59:20 PM
This is pretty much the best scenario for the Yanks. Now we don't HAVE to beat Verlander. I don't know who Houston would throw out against CC in game 7 but it won't be Keuchel or Verlander and i feel very good with CC.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on October 18, 2017, 11:00:49 PM
Hopefully our bats continue to stay hot. Sanchez Judge and Bird have been on fire the last 3 games.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on October 18, 2017, 11:01:56 PM
Just a fyi also. Apparently every time the Yanks have started 5-0 at home int he postseason they've gone to the world series.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on October 21, 2017, 11:37:38 PM
Well i was hoping the Yanks could pull it off but coming into the season i would have been happy to just be in the playoffs. I still feel t hey're a year or two away from being a legit contender. Need another starter or two. The Astros have never one and the Dodgers not since 88 so i can't complain.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on October 26, 2017, 10:37:17 PM
So Girardi out as Yankees manager.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on October 27, 2017, 12:40:11 PM
I was too bummed after Houston to come on here and talk about it...

but I need to chime in on Girardi... I think this is ridiculous...

I don't worship Girardi or anything, but imo he has done nothing short of a great job during his tenure, for a variety of different reasons at different times (handling the retiring hall of famers, always competing while the team is rebuilding, and dealing with the media while for the most part never losing his cool).

What if they beat Houston and then LA? Do they still not bring him back? I mean c'mon... what a year they had with no expectations... and to now go in to an UNKNOWN at this time when the future was so bright is worrisome to me.... the wrong hire could be a major setback next year when expectations will be through the roof... so the new guy comes in with alllll the pressure in the world.

Sounds like this is just Cashman deciding he doesn't want to work with him anymore because of some personal nonsense.



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on October 27, 2017, 09:08:57 PM
I agree i think it is the wrong move. Those kids in that clubhouse would've run through a wall for Joe. Now you're gonna bring in someone new who doesn't know them and could possibly set them back a few years.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on October 30, 2017, 08:55:55 AM
I agree i think it is the wrong move. Those kids in that clubhouse would've run through a wall for Joe. Now you're gonna bring in someone new who doesn't know them and could possibly set them back a few years.

Supposedly, from what's coming out now...that is NOT the case.  The young kids were not happy with Joe's micromanaging and some of his more old school management techniques.  As more information comes out, it seems like mid season (when they slumped), he sort of lost the clubhouse.  It sounds like he was NOT the guy who pulled them out of that, or motivated them to get out of it, or whatever.  That was "other people in the clubhouse" (Todd Frasier has specifically been mentioned...but so has Rob Thomson).


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on October 30, 2017, 03:33:13 PM
I agree i think it is the wrong move. Those kids in that clubhouse would've run through a wall for Joe. Now you're gonna bring in someone new who doesn't know them and could possibly set them back a few years.

Supposedly, from what's coming out now...that is NOT the case.  The young kids were not happy with Joe's micromanaging and some of his more old school management techniques.  As more information comes out, it seems like mid season (when they slumped), he sort of lost the clubhouse.  It sounds like he was NOT the guy who pulled them out of that, or motivated them to get out of it, or whatever.  That was "other people in the clubhouse" (Todd Frasier has specifically been mentioned...but so has Rob Thomson).


I am just concerned with the direction the sport is going in as a whole.... these hot shot general managers just want YES men in there who are going to implement their genius WAR numbers and what not.

The GM wants to be the wizard of all things.

The time of the grizzled hard ass manager is done with (not that Girardi was that).



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on November 02, 2017, 07:12:11 AM
Last night's game not withstanding (it was over early), it was a GREAT world series!!  Nice to see the Astros win their first, ever.

Darvish was tipping his pitches. His hand doesn't move in the glove EVERY time he throws the FB.  And there is obvious movement in the glove for every slider.  I'm not sure how anyone on the Dodgers hasn't noticed and let him know. Or maybe they have and he just can't fix it.

Now the crazy off season to begin!!!  So many teams making managerial changes, and the FA market is going to be interesting!  I expect a LOT of trades this off season, too.  So many teams are "pieces" away from being really, really good.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on November 02, 2017, 11:15:02 AM
Last night's game not withstanding (it was over early), it was a GREAT world series!!  Nice to see the Astros win their first, ever.

Darvish was tipping his pitches. His hand doesn't move in the glove EVERY time he throws the FB.  And there is obvious movement in the glove for every slider.  I'm not sure how anyone on the Dodgers hasn't noticed and let him know. Or maybe they have and he just can't fix it.

Now the crazy off season to begin!!!  So many teams making managerial changes, and the FA market is going to be interesting!  I expect a LOT of trades this off season, too.  So many teams are "pieces" away from being really, really good.


I had trouble getting in to the games after the Yankee loss...

The Dodgers lost the series in game 4... Kershaw CAN'T blow those leads....


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on November 03, 2017, 06:56:02 AM

I had trouble getting in to the games after the Yankee loss...

The Dodgers lost the series in game 4... Kershaw CAN'T blow those leads....

Once the Yanks loss, I started rooting for the Astros.  Besides the obvious reasons, George Springer is a local boy, went to school about 15 miles from here (I'm good friends with one of his old teachers), and he's the cousin of one of our friends (who lives here in town) so we went to rooting hard for him!  It obviously worked!! :)

I know that they have a big MVP party planned up here in a few weeks!!  Might try to get myself an invite. ;)



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: Falcon on November 07, 2017, 07:44:09 PM
Roy Halladay dead at 40, very sad.

Watch this:

https://twitter.com/MLBNetwork/status/928057506701570048



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on November 08, 2017, 07:34:59 AM
Roy Halladay dead at 40, very sad.

Watch this:

https://twitter.com/MLBNetwork/status/928057506701570048



Terrible tragedy. He was one of the guys I most respected (and feared) on the mound. In his heyday, he was almost unhittable.

I will say: These players who become pilots might want to learn their history.  Small planes and ball players have not had a very good track record.  Too many have died way too young when their Cessna (or whatever) went down.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on December 01, 2017, 10:33:23 PM
So Aaron Boone new Yankee manager. Thoughts Pilf? Jaeball?


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: Axl's Favorite Mechanical Bull on December 02, 2017, 07:40:18 AM
A month has passed and it still hurts like hell.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on December 02, 2017, 03:25:21 PM
So Aaron Boone new Yankee manager. Thoughts Pilf? Jaeball?

After seeing who the candidates were.... I guess I am indifferent on the choice...

Not happy, not mad, we'll see....

The only thing I take away from the whole thing was they must have really hated Girardi to part ways after how great of a season they just had... and they didn't really have a replacement waiting in the wings.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on December 03, 2017, 01:51:08 AM
I think he'll do ok. The talent is there for him to succeed with.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on December 11, 2017, 06:57:45 AM
So Aaron Boone new Yankee manager. Thoughts Pilf? Jaeball?

I'm OK with it.

I've watched him a lot in the broadcast booth, and he's a good strategy guy.  I think he'll do pretty well on the player "interface" stuff because he's a relatively young guy, who I think will be able to help those guys out a lot.

BUT......HOLY FUCK WEASELS: STANTON!?!

That fucking blew my mind.  We were down in Orlando, visiting the mouse, and I checked twitter while in line at the Haunted Mansion and thought I must have actually been on Twilight Zone.  No freaking way.

We are, IMHO, one good starter away from being a WS favorite.  The Astros rotation still, in my mind, gives them the edge. But it just got a WHOLE lot closer.

Wonder what the Sox (and the rest of the AL East) will try to do at the winter meetings to hold serve.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on December 11, 2017, 02:14:15 PM
This presser...it's surreal.  It's not quite "CC and AJ" surreal, but it's pretty damn close.

Literally the best player (IMHO) in baseball is joining the Yanks, and.....I mean....I don't feel they gave up all that much for him.  Castro was an exciting, excellent, player...to be sure...but not irreplaceable. The two minor leaguers look like solid prospects, but....even Guzman, with his velocity, isn't ready for prime time.  66 innings with Staten Island last season isn't making a MLB leap any easier (or sooner).  And the SS prospect...DD looks to be the Yanks SS for the next 10 years or so.

I feel like the Yanks robbed the Marlins, blind, and should be sending Jeter a Thank You card and a nice fruit basket.  I get Miami just couldn't handle the contract, but....ye gods......

This lineup could be scary.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on December 11, 2017, 05:18:13 PM
This presser...it's surreal.  It's not quite "CC and AJ" surreal, but it's pretty damn close.

Literally the best player (IMHO) in baseball is joining the Yanks, and.....I mean....I don't feel they gave up all that much for him.  Castro was an exciting, excellent, player...to be sure...but not irreplaceable. The two minor leaguers look like solid prospects, but....even Guzman, with his velocity, isn't ready for prime time.  66 innings with Staten Island last season isn't making a MLB leap any easier (or sooner).  And the SS prospect...DD looks to be the Yanks SS for the next 10 years or so.

I feel like the Yanks robbed the Marlins, blind, and should be sending Jeter a Thank You card and a nice fruit basket.  I get Miami just couldn't handle the contract, but....ye gods......

This lineup could be scary.


 :beer: ;D : ok: :peace: :hihi: :love:


This was an amazing early Christmas present.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on December 11, 2017, 08:54:31 PM
We definitely need one more good starter possibly two depending on if we can get CC back. I don't see Pinaeda returning. The only impact player we lost was Castro. The pitcher could be something but like pilf said the SS had no future here. DD is not going anywhere anytime soon.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: tim_m on December 13, 2017, 03:04:50 AM
Ok so pilf ane jaeball thoughts on the Headley trade? Also our pursuit of Faller from Detroit?


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on December 13, 2017, 07:45:31 AM
Ok so pilf ane jaeball thoughts on the Headley trade? Also our pursuit of Faller from Detroit?

Totally fine with it.  Feels like a precursor to something else, and it basically means Stantons contract (with Castro and Headley off the books) is paid for.

Yanks now have somewhere around 25-30 million to spend and STILL stay below 197.  They need a starting pitcher, a third baseman, and a 2nd baseman.  You have to figure Gleyber Torres fits into one of those spots.  They should be able to get some quality help at the remaining 2 positions with that money.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: JAEBALL on December 13, 2017, 04:57:58 PM
Ok so pilf ane jaeball thoughts on the Headley trade? Also our pursuit of Faller from Detroit?

Totally fine with it.  Feels like a precursor to something else, and it basically means Stantons contract (with Castro and Headley off the books) is paid for.

Yanks now have somewhere around 25-30 million to spend and STILL stay below 197.  They need a starting pitcher, a third baseman, and a 2nd baseman.  You have to figure Gleyber Torres fits into one of those spots.  They should be able to get some quality help at the remaining 2 positions with that money.



Same... never have been a fan of Headley despite his grit. Well it was more I was just mad at that ridiculous contract they gave him.

I think Torres will play second... and they are looking at Drury from Arizona to play third maybe.

I'm holding out hope they could maybe trade Frazier in a package for Cole and put him right up there at the top of this rotation... and I think Frazier could be an all star...so I don't really want to trade him, but I think the corner outfield spots are going to be occupied for a while....



Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: C0ma on December 13, 2017, 07:44:01 PM
I feel like the Yanks robbed the Marlins, blind, and should be sending Jeter a Thank You card and a nice fruit basket.  I get Miami just couldn't handle the contract, but....ye gods......



I had to chuckle reading that line with Jeter's history of gift bag/baskets...


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on December 14, 2017, 06:17:53 AM
I feel like the Yanks robbed the Marlins, blind, and should be sending Jeter a Thank You card and a nice fruit basket.  I get Miami just couldn't handle the contract, but....ye gods......



I had to chuckle reading that line with Jeter's history of gift bag/baskets...

;) I'm glad someone picked up on that.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on December 14, 2017, 06:19:35 AM
Ok so pilf ane jaeball thoughts on the Headley trade? Also our pursuit of Faller from Detroit?

Totally fine with it.  Feels like a precursor to something else, and it basically means Stantons contract (with Castro and Headley off the books) is paid for.

Yanks now have somewhere around 25-30 million to spend and STILL stay below 197.  They need a starting pitcher, a third baseman, and a 2nd baseman.  You have to figure Gleyber Torres fits into one of those spots.  They should be able to get some quality help at the remaining 2 positions with that money.



Same... never have been a fan of Headley despite his grit. Well it was more I was just mad at that ridiculous contract they gave him.

I think Torres will play second... and they are looking at Drury from Arizona to play third maybe.

I'm holding out hope they could maybe trade Frazier in a package for Cole and put him right up there at the top of this rotation... and I think Frazier could be an all star...so I don't really want to trade him, but I think the corner outfield spots are going to be occupied for a while....

If they somehow, someway, by some miracle, pulled off a trade for Machado to play 3rd....they won't, I'm pretty sure..but if they did? 

To quote Scooter:Holy cow!


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: Falcon on December 15, 2017, 10:44:05 PM
Happy for you guys with Stanton, should be fun in the Bronx next year.

Cards landing Ozuna was a helluva cool consolation prize, the dude can flat out mash.

Dealt from organizational strengths so no worries on that, they're flush with pitching and outfielders and the herd had to be thinned at some point.

Nice gesture by the StL brass getting Piscotty to Oakland to be near his mom who's been diagnosed with ALS, sorry to see him leave but there's bigger things than baseball.


Title: Re: 2017 Baseball Season/Off Season Discussion
Post by: pilferk on January 02, 2018, 02:38:24 PM
It's that time again!!!  New thread here:

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=68451.new#new


FYI: I can not wait until Spring Training....