Has Ron heard Chinese Democracy?

[Slipdisc]

Maybe once you are capable of forming cohesive sentences adhering to the English language (and not Slipdisc grammar) you will find people are more liable to take you seriously.

 

Lol, is this the best you can do? Attacking people on their grammar? Are you this desperately grasping for straws? Next time write your posts in Dutch we?ll see what?s better, my English or your Dutch. As long as people understand what I'm saying (illustrated by you meandering reply), I'm doing just fine. What?s next, are you going to attack people on their avatars too? You just gave the word "pathetic" a whole new dimension.?

That doesn't make sense.

Buckethead is nothing like GN'R.

He was a member of GN'R at one point but his solo work is incomparable.

Yes it does make sense. Times have changed and what was mainstream then is totally different from what?s mainstream now. If Buckethead would have been at this point in his career in a decade in which the electric guitar still would dominate mainstream music chances are big he would have been a whole lot more popular (for what it?s freakin?worth, but hey it?s you to whom popularity equals quality) and the link to GNR, a guitar driven band, even more obvious.

Malmsteen was never even half as popular as GN'R and he never had as much mainstream appeal, either. GN'R played to all crowds and the teenagers from the early '90s loved them and girls liked them (you won't find many average teen girls who were ever fans of Malmsteen) because they wrote ballads like SCOM, NR and Don't Cry.

Where were you in the eighties? When ?Rising Force?came out Malmsteen was HUGE. His fanbase contained the whole spectrum of fans. He was as big as one person could get. The way people all over the world played guitar changed over night. Your efforts to marginalize it all are as assbackwards as they are delusional. He wasn't just for the virtuoso crowd.

You are missing my point.

I never said Ron and BH couldn't write good songs.

I love Electric Tears.

What I said is that the assertion that Ron and BH are without doubt a superior songwriter to Izzy Stradlin is ridiculous, especially since as of yet - like it or not, no matter how hard you try to prove otherwise - these two guitarists have not had as much of an influence or as much success as Izzy did.

No you are missing the point here.

The fact that you: A) blame me for bringing him into discussion and B) Say that I stated that Ron and Buckethead are obviously better songwriters, is just plain laughable.

First of all, look at the posts before mine to see who brought Izzy into this discussion. Furthermore, I said that Izzy would never be able to write similar things. The styles of these players are just way to different. That?s what I said. Is it really this hard to grasp that a player with blues roots isn?t likely to write the same stuff a classically rooted player like Ron would come up with? Is it really that hard to see why I think Ron and Buckethead are more suitable for a new GNR with a contemporary sound than someone of the past? Especially when the creative mind of the band has stated wanting to move away from the things this band did in the past, into new musical directions?? That?s what I said and you (for the benefit of your fantasies) ripped out of it?s context. Nice going there, you eloquent mastermind. I never said Izzy's writing was inferior to theirs, it's just stylistically different and not what Axl is looking for with the new GNR (illustrated by the efforts Axl makes to have a modern virtuoso in his band)

Outside of the Bumblefoot cult - and it was significantly LESS before he joined GN'R - does anyone even know who he is? When he was announced as the new guitarist at Hammerstein few of us knew who he was and we all started posting pictures for reference.

Don?t project your own ignorance on others. I can?t help it that you don?t know what?s going on in music outside of GNR.

He may be a great virtuoso and he may have songwriting skill but that doesn't change the fact that nothing he's written has had the success that Izzy's work within GN'R did, and this is fine except for the fact that you (like a complete ass) tried to say Izzy is "obviously" inferior to these two guys as a songwriter. Bullshit.

Again it?s only in your world where I called Buckethead and Ron better players. And you?re the ass here for twisting and turning it all into something that suits your fantasies. The only obvious difference between these players I pointed out is the level of technical proficiency and the stylistic differences. Which even a deaf and blind person would acknowledge (you?ll be seeing this again later on).?

And hey, guess what - that wasn't my criteria for judging a guitarist. You need to spend more time comprehending what you are reading rather than jumping on everything and going off on a wild, incoherent tangent.

And hey guess what? I wasn?t talking to you!?

That comment was directed at Axlrosehunny.

You should be the last to complain about people not reading your posts and going of on a tangent. So tell me who?s jumping on everything here? Who should take some more time comprehending what people are saying? Next time you feel a need to get on that high horse of yours, make sure you actually understood what was being said. This makes you look like the hypocrite you obviously are.

That's irrelevant to our discussion. My point was that if Ron is playing these songs by Izzy and Axl then obviously your assertion that Izzy is an inferior songwriter is complete bullshit.

Again it?s only in your world where I called Buckethead and Ron better players. And you?re the ass here for twisting and turning it all into something that suits your fantasies. The only obvious difference between these players I pointed out is the level of technical proficiency and the stylistic differences. Which even a deaf and blind person would acknowledge (you?ll be seeing this again later on).

The only thing I pointed out was that because of their technical abilities Ron and Buckethead can play all of Izzy?s stuff (and tweak it), but Izzy could never play Ron and Bucket?s stuff. Or did he visit some MAB clinic to raise his chops? Izzy could never be a substitute for typical Buckethead playing, where Buckethead can be (and has proven so) be a substitute for Izzy.

I never said anything about Chinese Democracy or whether or not Buckethead and Ron are capable of writing songs. They are. Especially Bucket - but their work decidedly appeals to a certain target audience of listeners. Your behavior towards Izzy's abilities is what bothered me most and the fact that you tried to insinuate these two guitarists are "obviously" better than him at writing songs.

Again it?s only in your world where I called Buckethead and Ron better players. And you?re the ass here for twisting and turning it all into something that suits your fantasies. The only obvious difference between these players I pointed out is the level of technical proficiency and the stylistic differences. Which even a deaf and blind person would acknowledge.

-PEACE-

Ps. I'm done with you now this is a very dead horse by my standards and I'm not going to defend myself for things I didn't even say to begin with. So have fun playin' another round of twister!!

[HamsterDemocracy]

Lol, is this the best you can do? Attacking people on their grammar?

That's hardly an attack. It's pointing out hypocrisy when you insult the intelligence of others and then don't even use correct grammar. Don't try to imply it doesn't matter because you speak Dutch as a first language. This is an English message board and if you're going to go around trying to offend people by insinuating they are stupid then you'd better make sure your own posts aren't littered with grammatical errors. Don't blame your ineptitude on a language barrier or try to imply that you're better than I am because you (ignorantly) assume English is my first language, or that I don't speak any other languages. Low, man. Real low.

Are you this desperately grasping for straws?

How many paragraphs did I write in my reply to you? How many did you respond to here? How is it grasping for straws when I give you a full-length reply and mention your grammar one time? If I gave you a two-sentence reply I could see where you're coming from.

What?s next, are you going to attack people on their avatars too?

Huh?

Yes it does make sense. Times have changed and what was mainstream then is totally different from what?s mainstream now. If Buckethead would have been at this point in his career in a decade in which the electric guitar still would dominate mainstream music chances are big he would have been a whole lot more popular (for what it?s freakin?worth, but hey it?s you to whom popularity equals quality)

Stop making an ass out of yourself. I already said I don't equate quality with popularity, so stop trying to make little digs like that. It'd make sense if I had actually said that at one point, but I already said it's not true and you continue to bring it up.

Furthermore it's your opinion that Buckethead would have gained more popularity. I don't think he ever would have gained popularity in any era because he is decidedly non-mainstream and he doesn't want to be mainstream.

GN'R, a guitar-driven band, even more obvious.

You find GN'R to be guitar-driven? Really?

Where were you in the eighties? When ?Rising Force?came out Malmsteen was HUGE.

Maybe in the Netherlands. In America he was not. He was much more popular than he is today, but your point is pretty much moot since you admitted he's not popular today and GN'R is. It's a testament to the strength of GN'R that their popularity has barely faltered over the years. They've in many ways become legends. Malmsteen wasn't selling out stadiums like GN'R back in the '80s and his records didn't sell 16 million copies either. Start learning the difference between fact and personal preference and you'll realize arguments will be a lot easier. It's a statistical fact that Malmsteen didn't sell a well as GN'R or as well as many solo artists in the '80s.

His fanbase contained the whole spectrum of fans. He was as big as one person could get.

Malmsteen?!  As big as one person could get, eh? So I guess Michael Jackson releasing Thriller in the '80s was just a predecessor to the rise of MALMSTEEN! 

Malmsteen wasn't a big celebrity, he was popular but not mega-popular and he didn't appeal to as many outside of his target audience.

The way people all over the world played guitar changed over night. Your efforts to marginalize it all are as assbackwards as they are delusional. He wasn't just for the virtuoso crowd.

The Neo-classical thing influenced a lot of virtuoso guitarists. It didn't change the way everyone played overnight. 

No you are missing the point here.

Furthermore, I said that Izzy would never be able to write similar things. The styles of these players are just way to different. That?s what I said. Is it really this hard to grasp that a player with blues roots isn?t likely to write the same stuff a classically rooted player like Ron would come up with?

No, this is what you said:

Izzy?

Yeah, let nostalgia do the talking. Izzy, Robin and Richard (and most of the rest out there) can't play/write the parts people like Ron and Bucket can play/write.

Now maybe if your intent was to say Izzy is just a different style guitarist/songwriter, you should have been more specific and clarified what you were writing.

Is it really that hard to see why I think Ron and Buckethead are more suitable for a new GNR with a contemporary sound than someone of the past?

I agree. But if that's what you were trying to say from the start then why did you start arguing with us when we challenged your claims?

Whether it was your intention or not, it sounded like you were slamming Izzy and the other guitarists and claiming they were inferior songwriters/guitarists. It's a different style. It doesn't mean they're worse.

Don?t project your own ignorance on others. I can?t help it that you don?t know what?s going on in music outside of GNR.

This is another example of your complete ignorance and lack of respect. We were discussing the popularity of Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal outside of GN'R. Fact is a lot of people - the majority of people - have no idea who he is. And a LOT of us had no clue who he was when he was introduced at Hammerstein. How many MySpace friends did he have then compared to now? GN'R brought him more fame than ever before. He said so himself. Just because I'm pointing this out doesn't mean I have no idea what is going on in music outside of GN'R, and how dare you try to bring such low bait into a discussion.

If you can't discuss things maturely or with respect then you really shouldn't bother at all. I didn't say you were an idiot and I didn't insult you but from your very first reply to me you've shown a lot of attitude and disrespect. You'd better work on that, buddy, if you want people to show you respect in return.

[The Legend]

Lol, call me when you start making sense. Robin Richard and Izzy are ten times the players Ron and Bucket are in GNR?? If that version holds any water RiR IV shouldn?t have been canceled. Robin, Richard and Izzy CAN?T substitute for Ron and Bucket, it?s as obvious you are delusional, the players are just too different style-wise and the gap in technical abilities between those three and the two big B?s is miles wide.

Maybe. But none of the songs leaked/live i've heard so far, sound all that 'complex'. Slash could play most of the riffs, and i'm not even a Slash fan. I certaintly am not diminishing Ron & Bucket's work, but just because it sounds cool & complex doesn't mean they can write better than Izzy Stradlin. All i've got to say is Izzy's been behind some of rock's modern classics (Patience for one). Where's Ron & Bucket's hits?

The fact that Axl puts so much faith in substituting one of the worlds most well versed virtuosos

That's a matter of opinion.

 

with the other (two people who frequently got compared to each other), should tell you something about the necessity of Ron and the big influence Buckethead has on CD and inability of any of the other guys to do something similar.

Bullcrap. The only person that has a heavy influence on CD is W. Axl Rose. I'm all for this equal shit with this band being Guns N' Roses, 'cause they are goddammit, but to say Bucket is a huge influence is a joke. Axl calls all the shots, including instrumentals. He's been doing this since the Illusion days.

 

If Axl wanted a cheap trip down memory lane he could have added Izzy a whole lot earlier to the bunch. Now he?s just using him to raise credit with the older fans. To show that a key player of the old band supports this new thing.

Axl would've added Izzy back to the lineup, if Izzy gave a shit about wanting to be back in the Guns. He doesn't. At least not full-time. Izzy didn't like was Guns became, and probably still doesn't to an extent. Izzy always envisioned GN'R being a club band, like a Ramones or New York Dolls, and always staying right there. He didn't like how they became a modern Stones or Zeppelin, and became arena rock. Izzy i'm sure would want to write & contribute in the studio, but he's just not a road guy, and probably never will be again, at least not on the caliber of GN'R. I don't think the guy has any interest, or he would've been back a long time ago.

And to say this is only Axl's attempt at providing credit with the older fans is bullcrap. Axl & Izzy reconciled their differences, and Axl wanted to make him apart of this. How does this provide credit? Axl Rose & Izzy Stradlin are the founding members of Guns N' Roses. NO ONE ELSE. If Izzy wants to come on stage, and drink a martini and eat shrimp rolls for half the set, by god he better be allowed to do so.

Again, if Axl is interested in presenting a coherent new line up he will keep Ron. And I think he will. The fact that Ron is an ace producer and Axl could finally have somebody behind the buttons of a studio that actually is a band member, somebody who?s totally into the creative process, makes it even more plausible.

I'll agree with that. But I also have to re-state. No one will ever have their hand in Guns N' Roses' future other than Axl Rose for the rest of it's existance. He's been burned too much, and has felt since the early-90's that to direct his band the way he wants, he needs full & sole creative control.

The original players where at it in a time this music could actually become mainstream.

The music became mainstream because it was good. Saying this, is like saying GN'R were only successful, because they were on the rocket when it took off.

Chances are slim that GNR will ever have much mainstream appeal again,

Agreed. I'm not on board with all of these Axlites that think 2007 is gonna be 1992 all over again.

 

which is the same reason people like Buckethead aren?t likely to have much mainstream appeal as well.

Bucket's music doesn't have mainstream appeal, because what he does is not radio-ready. He does his thing, and it's not what the biz is looking to market.



 

Look at Malmsteen who was huge during the 80?s and early 90?s, where is he know? I know where he is and he?s doing exactly the same as back then, does it have mainstream appeal?

Malmsteen was never huge.

Buckethead and (especially) Ron have written tons of catchy stuff.Ron is actually known for being one of the few virtuosos who can write very accessible and catchy songs.

Matter of opinion.

? If your only criteria to judge these players writing abilities is the amount of mainstream appeal, then you might as well stop wasting your time and call Axl and tell him to add a DJ and an MC (because that?s what?s mainstream).

I agree with what you're saying in theory. But every band in that time 'sold out' (I guess?) to become more marketable. People said Guns N' Roses sold out when the Illusion's dropped and songs like Don't Cry & NR were the biggest hits.

People said Metallica sold out with the Black album around the same time because Enter Sandman was too melodic & Nothing Else Matters was a power ballad.

Dude this happens with everyone who is successful. At one time or another, every artist in rock was underground. They either stayed there, or crawled out of their shell to a broader world.

Make sure to check CD?s liner notes as well and tell me how much of it was written by mr. Stradlin. If these players are forced by the circumstances to play mostly the old stuff it?s not their problem and it adds nothing to this discussion.

The new players are forced to play old stuff, because the casual fans want to hear the classics right now, not new shit. The difference between GN'R and say the Aerosmith & Motley Crue's of the world, is GNR's new stuff is actually good. When old artists get booed off of stages for playing their new material, it's because it sucks, and they should get a clue.

It doesn?t say one iota in terms of how well Izzy could substitute for Ron and Bucket (which he never could).

And vice versa. And if this was a 'factual' discussion, you wouldn't have added that "which he never could" part. That explains right there you're on some campaign to be pro-Ron & Bucket, and anti-everyone else with a guitar in their hand on stage.

As a matter of fact, the fact that both Ron and Bucket played the shit out if Izzy?s songs, tweaking some of them (like nightrain) to a new level should tell you how assbackwards your comment is. If you hate it so much when people say idiotic things, then why are you spreading that kind of crap in this thread?

People hate when people say idiotic things like Ron & Bucket IMPROVED Nightrain. Are you for REAL?!?!?! I'm not all into this 'Robin played Slash's solo better' & 'Ron played Izzy's solo' better. Fuck that shit.

That's like saying Axl sings Live and Let Die better than Paul McCartney. If it wasn't for Paul McCartney, Axl Rose wouldn't fucking know what Live and Let Die was.

and speaking of that, 'this is a song called Live and Let DIE!'

[NicoRourke]

I don't think Ron has heard the whole album.

Maybe only the songs he's been asked to learn (TWAT, Better, Maddy, The Blues, IRS and CD)

[HamsterDemocracy]

Lol, call me when you start making sense. Robin Richard and Izzy are ten times the players Ron and Bucket are in GNR?  If that version holds any water RiR IV shouldn?t have been canceled. Robin, Richard and Izzy CAN?T substitute for Ron and Bucket, it?s as obvious you are delusional, the players are just too different style-wise and the gap in technical abilities between those three and the two big B?s is miles wide.

Maybe. But none of the songs leaked/live i've heard so far, sound all that 'complex'. Slash could play most of the riffs, and i'm not even a Slash fan. I certaintly am not diminishing Ron & Bucket's work, but just because it sounds cool & complex doesn't mean they can write better than Izzy Stradlin. All i've got to say is Izzy's been behind some of rock's modern classics (Patience for one). Where's Ron & Bucket's hits?

The fact that Axl puts so much faith in substituting one of the worlds most well versed virtuosos

That's a matter of opinion.

 

with the other (two people who frequently got compared to each other), should tell you something about the necessity of Ron and the big influence Buckethead has on CD and inability of any of the other guys to do something similar.

Bullcrap. The only person that has a heavy influence on CD is W. Axl Rose. I'm all for this equal shit with this band being Guns N' Roses, 'cause they are goddammit, but to say Bucket is a huge influence is a joke. Axl calls all the shots, including instrumentals. He's been doing this since the Illusion days.

 

If Axl wanted a cheap trip down memory lane he could have added Izzy a whole lot earlier to the bunch. Now he?s just using him to raise credit with the older fans. To show that a key player of the old band supports this new thing.

Axl would've added Izzy back to the lineup, if Izzy gave a shit about wanting to be back in the Guns. He doesn't. At least not full-time. Izzy didn't like was Guns became, and probably still doesn't to an extent. Izzy always envisioned GN'R being a club band, like a Ramones or New York Dolls, and always staying right there. He didn't like how they became a modern Stones or Zeppelin, and became arena rock. Izzy i'm sure would want to write & contribute in the studio, but he's just not a road guy, and probably never will be again, at least not on the caliber of GN'R. I don't think the guy has any interest, or he would've been back a long time ago.

And to say this is only Axl's attempt at providing credit with the older fans is bullcrap. Axl & Izzy reconciled their differences, and Axl wanted to make him apart of this. How does this provide credit? Axl Rose & Izzy Stradlin are the founding members of Guns N' Roses. NO ONE ELSE. If Izzy wants to come on stage, and drink a martini and eat shrimp rolls for half the set, by god he better be allowed to do so.

Again, if Axl is interested in presenting a coherent new line up he will keep Ron. And I think he will. The fact that Ron is an ace producer and Axl could finally have somebody behind the buttons of a studio that actually is a band member, somebody who?s totally into the creative process, makes it even more plausible.

I'll agree with that. But I also have to re-state. No one will ever have their hand in Guns N' Roses' future other than Axl Rose for the rest of it's existance. He's been burned too much, and has felt since the early-90's that to direct his band the way he wants, he needs full & sole creative control.

The original players where at it in a time this music could actually become mainstream.

The music became mainstream because it was good. Saying this, is like saying GN'R were only successful, because they were on the rocket when it took off.

Chances are slim that GNR will ever have much mainstream appeal again,

Agreed. I'm not on board with all of these Axlites that think 2007 is gonna be 1992 all over again.

 

which is the same reason people like Buckethead aren?t likely to have much mainstream appeal as well.

Bucket's music doesn't have mainstream appeal, because what he does is not radio-ready. He does his thing, and it's not what the biz is looking to market.



 

Look at Malmsteen who was huge during the 80?s and early 90?s, where is he know? I know where he is and he?s doing exactly the same as back then, does it have mainstream appeal?

Malmsteen was never huge.

Buckethead and (especially) Ron have written tons of catchy stuff.Ron is actually known for being one of the few virtuosos who can write very accessible and catchy songs.

Matter of opinion.

  If your only criteria to judge these players writing abilities is the amount of mainstream appeal, then you might as well stop wasting your time and call Axl and tell him to add a DJ and an MC (because that?s what?s mainstream).

I agree with what you're saying in theory. But every band in that time 'sold out' (I guess?) to become more marketable. People said Guns N' Roses sold out when the Illusion's dropped and songs like Don't Cry & NR were the biggest hits.

People said Metallica sold out with the Black album around the same time because Enter Sandman was too melodic & Nothing Else Matters was a power ballad.

Dude this happens with everyone who is successful. At one time or another, every artist in rock was underground. They either stayed there, or crawled out of their shell to a broader world.

Make sure to check CD?s liner notes as well and tell me how much of it was written by mr. Stradlin. If these players are forced by the circumstances to play mostly the old stuff it?s not their problem and it adds nothing to this discussion.

The new players are forced to play old stuff, because the casual fans want to hear the classics right now, not new shit. The difference between GN'R and say the Aerosmith & Motley Crue's of the world, is GNR's new stuff is actually good. When old artists get booed off of stages for playing their new material, it's because it sucks, and they should get a clue.

It doesn?t say one iota in terms of how well Izzy could substitute for Ron and Bucket (which he never could).

And vice versa. And if this was a 'factual' discussion, you wouldn't have added that "which he never could" part. That explains right there you're on some campaign to be pro-Ron & Bucket, and anti-everyone else with a guitar in their hand on stage.

As a matter of fact, the fact that both Ron and Bucket played the shit out if Izzy?s songs, tweaking some of them (like nightrain) to a new level should tell you how assbackwards your comment is. If you hate it so much when people say idiotic things, then why are you spreading that kind of crap in this thread?

People hate when people say idiotic things like Ron & Bucket IMPROVED Nightrain. Are you for REAL?!?!?! I'm not all into this 'Robin played Slash's solo better' & 'Ron played Izzy's solo' better. Fuck that shit.

That's like saying Axl sings Live and Let Die better than Paul McCartney. If it wasn't for Paul McCartney, Axl Rose wouldn't fucking know what Live and Let Die was.

and speaking of that, 'this is a song called Live and Let DIE!'

Exactly what I was trying to say.

[killingvector]

Since this is dead horse, I can get away with this: the band should definately make Ron a permanent member if there is no chance that Buckethead will come back. I never understood the lack of stage chemistry argument b/c the band was very entertaining in 2002: Axl may have not been himself but finck/bucket played dr. jekyll and mr. hyde on opposite sides of the stage. It was fun.

[Demon Wolf]

For the love of god, do not take Buckethead back. Sure, as a guitarist he's talented, but he feels way outta place in GNR. Ron is cool, got amazing stage presence and is a brilliant guitarist.

Bumblefoot for president!

[killingvector]

For the love of god, do not take Buckethead back. Sure, as a guitarist he's talented, but he feels way outta place in GNR. Ron is cool, got amazing stage presence and is a brilliant guitarist.

Bumblefoot for president!

I thought he felt right at home. I wish some fans had treated Bucket better.

[jameslofton29]

I wish some fans had treated Bucket better.

They will KV. When CD comes out, and BH is on it, they wont be able to praise the material without offering any kudos to BH. They have trouble doing that now, and it'll be even worse when an actual album is out.

[The Legend]

For the love of god, do not take Buckethead back. Sure, as a guitarist he's talented, but he feels way outta place in GNR. Ron is cool, got amazing stage presence and is a brilliant guitarist.

Bumblefoot for president!

I thought he felt right at home. I wish some fans had treated Bucket better.

He didn't fit in GNR's image. Period.

[HamsterDemocracy]

For the love of god, do not take Buckethead back. Sure, as a guitarist he's talented, but he feels way outta place in GNR. Ron is cool, got amazing stage presence and is a brilliant guitarist.

Bumblefoot for president!

I thought he felt right at home. I wish some fans had treated Bucket better.

He didn't fit in GNR's image. Period.

Correction: he didn't fit into GN'Rs' old image.

I thought his style was perfect considering this is a reincarnation of the band. Axl even changed his look in '02, it's just a pity he choose the gansta rap style.

[The Legend]

Axl in 2002 didn't fit GNR's image either.

[HamsterDemocracy]

Axl in 2002 didn't fit GNR's image either.

Exactly.

Old GN'R.

What is GN'R today?

New GN'R.

It's not the same band. Like it or not. It's Axl and Dizzy. And Dizzy Reed was not an original member.

Axl said he wanted to take the new band in a new direction, musically and stylistically. He did. People bitched because it wasn't "old" GN'R.

Now he's gone back to the old look. It's nice but also kind of redundant and makes you question whether he went back in 2002 and restructured Chinese Democracy after getting all that bad press.

I really hope not, because style-wise or not the music from '02 was stunning stuff. Too bad his voice sucked, but then again I think it fit the new songs like Rhiad.

[The Legend]

Dude they looked like clowns in 2002...

They went back to the old look because they were a laughing stock.

[HamsterDemocracy]

Dude they looked like clowns in 2002...

They went back to the old look because they were a laughing stock.

There's a very thin line between brilliance and insanity; genius and stupidity.

I think what Axl did in 2002 was absolutely brilliant. I am not an Axl dick licker either so don't think I am. I hated them in '02 (not hated, but I hated their IMAGE). Now looking back in retrospect I realize what Axl was trying to pull off and it was great. The problem is that he went too far and in too short a time. He was trying to transform the band and he did. He was trying to merge styles and he did. The musical styles were superb - listen to Blues from '02; the '80s-fashion techno synth in the background with the keyboards, the high vocals and the stunning Bucket melodies underneath the outro with power chords by Fortus.

That band was touching on something revolutionary but they were just a bit to the side and veering into stupidity; Axl's gangsta rap image was the backfire, as was Robin Finck's goth look. The sound of the band was better.

And, dare I say it, I loved the chemistry between Axl and Bucket - that was perfect and bizarre and it was 100% compelling. RIR3 - It's So Easy - Axl jumps the stage as Buckethead leaps through the air behind him; love it.

Axl and BH are both enigmas and they had chemistry; Axl pursued BH for the band for months and I hated BH when he was in the band but realize his brilliance now. Axl knew what he was doing. It just was misunderstood.

If they had kept with it and changed the image of Finck and Axl back then - and Axl had dressed as he did at RIR3 with the dragon shirts - that band would have been amazing.

[The Legend]

Interesting theory.

But personally I think that's looking far too deep into it.

[HamsterDemocracy]

Interesting theory.

But personally I think that's looking far too deep into it.

Probably. 

I do think there was something special and ambitious there. If they hadn't named themselves "Guns N' Roses" and drawn comparisons to the old band, and Axl hadn't gotten himself braided, and Finck hadn't done the goth look, and they hadn't attempted to play old songs that required the "old rasp," that would have been great. The new songs sounded great with the new voice; in comparison when they play The Blues now I feel it's missing something special.

[The Legend]

I agree. There's a few of the new songs, like Maddy & The Blues that just don't sound right with the old rasp, and sound better with the 2002 voice.

By the way, love your Marty McFly avatar!