Duff in BassPlayer mag March 04

[GypsySoul]

BASS PLAYER (mag) MARCH 2004 Issue

Welcome Back to the Jungle
Duff McKagan
RELOADS WITH VELVET REVOLVER

BY JOHN FERRANTE
PHOTOGRAPHS BY ANNAMARIA DISANTO

the scene: Late afternoon at a hit-making recording studio in North Hollywood.  Intense energy buzzes around the building.  A guitar player known as Slash sits inside the green room drinking coffee.  Duff McKagan emerges from Room A looking balanced and full of positive energy, having just completed tracking with Velvet Revolver, a powerhouse band featuring former members of Guns N? Roses (Duff, Slash, and drummer Matt Sorum) and former Stone Temple Pilots singer Scott Weiland - an explosive combination of talent and history, and a group of men not without their demons.

One of history?s most volatile and exciting bands, in the late ?80s Guns N? Roses brought it?s high-energy, sleazy blues riffs and attitude to a mass audience with huge hits like ?Welcome to the Jungle? and ?Sweet Child o? Mine.?  At a time when metal hair bands pumped out formulaic commercial pabulum, GNR provided a shot of honesty and reckless excitement into the music biz.  Unfortunately for their fans, the band?s best-known lineup self-destructed shortly afterward, scattering the members in various musical directions.

Since departing from the Roses camp, McKagan has been living in Seattle with his family, studying finance, and touring as a vocalist and rhythm guitarist with the band Loaded.  We sat down with Duff to discuss his new project.

Is your playing different with Velvet Revolver compared to GNR?
Bass is a very important element of a band; if done right, it can be awe-inspiring.  With Scott?s complex melodies, I can?t get in the way, so I am playing simpler.  Not that I?ve ever overplayed in the first place - I?m not going to dazzle you with really fast runs - but I might hold back on runs that I would have done before with Guns N? Roses.  I play more back in the pocket with Matt now.  The songs that we?ve written aren?t extremely difficult to play, but the most important part about them is that they all have this deep pocket, the deepest pocket I?ve ever played in.  It?s important for me to be in the pocket; if I?m not, then it?s all going to fall apart.  It?s all about the groove, man.

How would you describe the chemistry you have with Slash and Matt?
It?s intangible.  It goes all the way back to when Guns N? Roses formed - there was a different first lineup, with a different guitar player and a drummer, and it wasn?t great.  As soon as Slash and [drummer] Steven Adler joined, it clicked.  In the first five minutes we could tell; there was like electricity in the air.  After Adler, we went through a lot of drummers but we just weren?t finding that guy with the connection.  We finally saw Matt playing with the Cult; it was their last gig on the tour, and Slash and I went down to check it out.  We were blown away.  The three of us just have this special thing when we play together.

How did Velvet Revolver come together?
Slash, Matt, and I played at a benefit in Los Angeles for our friend Randy Castillo.  Josh Todd from Buckcherry got up and sang with us, as did Steven Tyler from Aerosmith.  It felt good to play with Slash and Matt again.  We had kind of forgotten about the chemistry we have together.

What is the Velvet Revolver sound?
Matt is always saying, ?We?ve got to keep it modern,? so he is always listening to records and coming up with great drum beats.  With him it?s easy just to find the groove, and then all of a sudden there?s the song.  Then Scott comes in and sings a melody.  He is a master melody writer; he can write a melody over a turd.  And [guitarist] Dave Kushner adds a whole other element; he?s got all these effects.  He is a classic rhythm guitarist.  To play with Slash you can?t play like Slash - you have to play in a whole different place. [Former GNR rhythm guitarist] Izzy Stradlin played completely different from Slash; when Slash was hitting down, Izzy was hitting up, and it worked.  Dave came in and knew what to do.  Whether our sound is modern or not, it?s our own thing.  It?s us.

How do you write songs?
It?s really a band process.  Nobody ever brings in a complete song.  Slash might have a riff and he?ll just start playing it.  Maybe we?ll play the exact same thing, or maybe we?ll turn it upside down.  Or Matt will start a drum beat, or I?ll bring in a bass thing.  It?s a band process.

Do you have a daily practice routine?
Hell no.  For me, playing bass without drums or other instruments - just to practice bass - is so unfulfilling.  It doesn?t make me any better of a player.  Instead, I?ll strum an acoustic guitar at home.  I like my playing to be a little rough around the edges.  I?m not technically the best bass player in the world, but I grew up with a musical family, so I know how to feel - and that?s so much more important than anything else.  I worry that if I get too good technically, I?ll lose something in my feel.

Do you stay up to date on music technology?
We recorded this album to tape, but we used Pro Tools as well.  Matt and Scott are great at it.  I try not to get caught up in Pro Tools; I?d rather play a song all the way through than sit there and edit parts together.  We tracked this record as a live band, and on most of the tunes, we didn?t use a click track.  Sure, some of the tracks speed up at the end, but they do so for a reason: because the music and the feeling are getting more intense.  I think the listener wants to hear that, too.

You?re studying finance.  Do you see a correlation between math and music?
Yes.  Math to me is easy.  I didn?t graduate from high school, so in college I?ve been taking algebra and business calculus - lots of math.  It just makes sense.  It?s a puzzle, like doing a crossword puzzle.  There is totally a correlation with music, absolutely.

What is the connection exactly?
None of us reads music - we never have - so we have to remember sequences and stuff, how many verses, where are the choruses, is your verse going to lead to a pre-chorus?  How many times?  Not that we have an equation for a hit song; we don?t.  We?ve done songs that mathematically don?t make any sense, but they still make sense.  I don?t know how many formulas I have in my head and how many songs I remember how to play - too many - but with music, you?ve got to put feeling into the math.

What are your expectations regarding Velvet Revolver?
We know how high the bar is raised, so we wouldn?t have done this unless we were confident.  Initially we were hesitant to say anything officially; we said, ?Oh, we?re just jamming together.?  But once Scott came in and sang the first song with us, it was like, ?Okay, now we can go ahead and do this.?

Are you looking forward to getting on the road?
Playing live is what this band is made for.  This is going to be Old School in the way that we are real players.  It?s not politically correct; it?s going to be questionable what will happen every night.  Scott is a rational and sane guy, mild-mannered in everyday life - but when the guy gets onstage, he is fucking great.  Stone Temple Pilots are a great live band, but the other guys don?t move; Scott was the mover.  In Velvet Revolver, everybody moves and there is a lot of energy.  Scott, Dave, and I all do martial arts together, so there is a whole other intensity level that we know we each have.  Martial arts are pretty violent and the workout is intense.  That brings a lot to this band.

How so?
If you?ve ever played a sport like football, sometimes there?s that one teammate you can count on to knock the shit out of somebody else.  All three of us are that guy - so we can all count on that guy being onstage.  And for me, going onstage is almost like going to war.  It?s combat.

It sounds like the tour will be entirely different from the GNR days.
Absolutely.  I don?t remember the Guns tours.  There are literally stamps in my passport where I?m like Whoa - I went there?  I?ve toured a lot since the Guns N? Roses days, since I?ve been sober, with the Neurotic Outsiders and Loaded.  Touring when you know what?s going on is a lot more fun.  It?s a lot easier than trying to cop drugs in every city you are going to.

What do you think about the current state of music?
I wish I could say there are a lot of new bands that I absolutely love, but the groups I love are guys that are my age - bands like the Foo Fighters and Audioslave.  I really like the new Jane?s Addiction record.  Some great bands have come out in the last ten years, but they are underground.  I love the Refused, and Queens Of The Stone Age are a perfect example of a great, dangerous rock band, especially if you see them in a small place.  They are great players, but you never know if one of those guys will jump off the stage and kick your ass - I love that!  I miss that about a band.  When I see the Queens, I am so glad I play rock & roll. BP

Gypsy note: There?s some quotes from Duff (and a pic) in the write-up about his gear that I posted in the ?Nice Boys? section.
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=10565

[GypsySoul]

PHOTOGRAPHS BY ANNAMARIA DISANTO

[Booker Floyd]

Thats a really great interview...Those recording and songwriting details are fascinating to me.

[jarmo]

Thanks for typing that out Gypsy.

Did Slash change his mind about Pro-Tools or did he just let the others use it anyway?


I read something about [your use of] ProTools [audio editing software] on one song, and said you couldn't even look at the computer.

Oh, yeah. I had this thing on a song called "Speed Parade" where I wanted a car sound on it. So where do you go and find a car sound? For me, it's go to the video store, pick out a Clint Eastwood movie and just loop or dub it in there somehow.

And they said, "No, they have these books of nothing but sound effects." ... So it took a while to find it, and the way they applied it was using ProTools. Once I saw that I would just sit behind the computer, I couldn't stand to look at it. It was just so f---ing tedious. That was my first--and pretty much last--introduction to ProTools. [laughs]


http://www.livedaily.com/news/2282.html

---

Another thing, Duff says Matt wants to keep the sound modern.

Didn't Slash quit GN'R because he didn't want them to change?


There was most definitely a clash of attitudes. ?Axl had a vision that GN'R should change and Slash had an attitude that Guns N' Roses was Guns N' Fucking Roses and that?s who they were,? Zutaut realises, ?I don't think they could get over their breakdown in communication.?
Total Guitar, June 2003


Or maybe he just accepted Pro-Tools and the idea of change since Snakepit and since he left GN'R...

It just seems like Slash has changed his opinion on some things or just let the others do what they want.


Oh, and this isn't about Axl. So no need to tell me it's all Axl's fault and how he's an asshole for making Slash leave GN'R.



/jarmo

[Booker Floyd]

Did Slash change his mind about Pro-Tools or did he just let the others use it anyway?

Did Duff say that Slash was using it?  Slash said he doesnt like it, but hes not the one using it and hes obviously not completely opposed to it if it was used on a Snakepit record.

Slash also didnt care for the production and effects on the Use Your Illusions, did that change anything?

Another thing, Duff says Matt wants to keep the sound modern.

Didn't Slash quit GN'R because he didn't want them to change?

First of all, this isnt Guns N' Roses...

Second, do you think Matt or Duffs definition of is making industrial music?

Who knows what Matts idea of "modern" is and who knows how its being manifested in this band?  Seems like youre just grasping at straws for contradictions that really arent there.

Or maybe he just accepted Pro-Tools and the idea of change since Snakepit and since he left GN'R...

Pro-Tools was used on that Snakepit record, no?  

It just seems like Slash has changed his opinion on some things or just let the others do what they want.

Its convenient for your defending of Axl (or blaming of Slash) to say this, but the situations dont compare.  Matt isnt Axl, hes not bullying anyone for name rights, or making industrial music, or doing any of the other things Axl did to drive the former members away. The circumstances arent the same, and neither are the compromises (if any) being made.  As for the Pro-Tools thing, the quote given states that Slash personally doesnt like it; I didnt  see any zero tolerance Pro-Tools policy...

Oh, and this isn't about Axl. So no need to tell me it's all Axl's fault and how he's an asshole for making Slash leave GN'R.

Well, it wasnt about Axl...

[jarmo]

How surprising Booker. You even managed to split the post into small sections and skip the Tom Zutaut part, excellent.    

Anyway, somebody who basically didn't want GN'R to change is now in a band that is looking for a modern sound. Personally I think it's great since I liked The Cult's latest album and I also liked the things Duff did in Loaded.

I think change is good, I think it might just bring the best out of Slash.

You just assume I'm trying to make Axl look better. I even said it's not about Axl.  

All I said that maybe Slash decided to "go with the flow" and allow VR to do stuff he wouldn't do himself if it was his solo band. Is that possible? Is it possible he thought "hey, this could be interesting, let's try it!"?

For a guy who's supposed to dislike Pro-Tools, it's sure being used on his albums.  


Since when is modern sounding the same as industrial sounding?  




/jarmo

[Doc Emmett Brown]

All I said that maybe Slash decided to "go with the flow" and allow VR to do stuff he wouldn't do himself if it was his solo band. Is that possible? Is it possible he thought "hey, this could be interesting, let's try it!"?

Maybe it's easier to 'go with the flow' when all the band member are easy-going people  

Again, this is not about Axl, but if you or Slash or anyone for that matter are introduced to a new thing in the right way, it can completely change your opinion about that new thing.

Also, it seems like this VR dont spend forever and a day in the studio playing with Pro Tools.  They just use it when they feel like it.

Duff said they recorded the album to tape?  What does that mean?  Does it mean they used one of those old-fashioned cassette tape recorders??

[jarmo]

Duff said they recorded the album to tape?  What does that mean?  Does it mean they used one of those old-fashioned cassette tape recorders??

I think so.

Maybe they used PT for effects....  



/jarmo

[Booker Floyd]

How surprising Booker. You even managed to split the post into small sections and skip the Tom Zutaut part, excellent.    

 

The hell did the Tom Zutnat quote have to do with anything?  What does it prove?  

Anyway, somebody who basically didn't want GN'R to change is now in a band that is looking for a modern sound.

Velvet Revolver is not GNR.  GNR was an entity that was already established and his vision for that might not be exactly the same as another different entity.

Then theres the change part.  GNR did change, from AFD to GNR Lies to Illusions, and Slash was there and a part of it.  Eventually, he didnt agree with Axls ideas for change...Do you believe that Axls ideas (industrial-stylings, snythesizers, etc.) will exist in this band?  So you cant compare Axls desire to change Guns N' Roses to Matt Sorums vague idea of "modern" with Velvet Revolver.  Go ahead and define modern for me, so I can see where youre getting this comparison of Matt to Axl.  I know Axls of modern was electronic/industrial...the only implication Duff made to Matts idea of modern is listening to records and coming up with great drum beats

You just assume I'm trying to make Axl look better. I even said it's not about Axl.  

Okay

All I said that maybe Slash decided to "go with the flow" and allow VR to do stuff he wouldn't do himself if it was his solo band. Is that possible? Is it possible he thought "hey, this could be interesting, let's try it!"?

Its a given that since this isnt his solo band theres likely to be some compromise, but nothing comparable to the situation with Guns, which is what youre making it seem like.

For a guy who's supposed to dislike Pro-Tools, it's sure being used on his albums.  

That quote only shows that he himself doesnt like using it.  He says its tedious to sit behind a computer.  Does that autmoatically mean he wont have anything to do with it, especially if its someone else using it?  Obviously not.  Now if Duff said "Slash is on Pro-Tools all the time, he loves it" youd have a point...itd be a contradiction.  Matt and Scott are fans of it apparently, he didnt say anything about Slash.  It sounds as if Duff and Slash are on the same page with Pro-Tools, they dont care to use it themselves but clearly arent dead-set against it.

Since when is modern sounding the same as industrial sounding?  

Thats what I was asking you...

We know that Axl was going into an industrial direction, and we know Slash was against it.  So you cant compare Slashs reluctance to make that kind of music to Velvet Revolver sounding "modern," because theres been NO definition (or even a hint) of what modern even means here...But is it going to be something like "Oh My God"?  I highly doubt it.

[Doc Emmett Brown]

As far definition of 'modern' music:

Duff mentioned that he likes Audioslave - now this is a band with a modern sound but it's not industrial.   So I think we have a pretty good idea of what VR means when they say 'modern'.

[jarmo]

I don't hear industrial sounds when I listen to some of the new GN'R tracks, besides according to Slash Axl wanted to be Pearl Jam at some point. Not exactly your most Pro-Tools friendly bands out there.


I'm not sure if Duff and Slash are on the same page regarding recording technology. Compare Dark Days to Ain't Life Grand. Loaded's album sounds more modern to me.

I think Matt's idea of modern sounding is basically using computers in the music making. By that, I don't mean adding some car sounds to a song.

Digital editing and stuff like that.

We'll have to wait and see if they used any Pro-Tools on Slash's stuff or only on the rest of the band's stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if Dave likes to play around with things like that.



/jarmo

[Doc Emmett Brown]

I don't hear industrial sounds when I listen to some of the new GN'R tracks, besides according to Slash Axl wanted to be Pearl Jam at some point. Not exactly your most Pro-Tools friendly bands out there.
/jarmo

See - I think that was the main problem.  One minute he wants to sound like Pearl Jam/Nirvana, the next minute NIN, and after that put in a huge piano ballad. I'm not dissing Axl, but I can imagine the frustration the other guys must have felt.

back on topic:  
I think it's cool that Duff went back to school.  He's mentioned that several times in other articles.  He seems to have grown up a lot since his reckless life days, so hopefully we see some of that in the new songs.

[Falcon]

Being the resident Cult fanatic, I think I know what Matt is implying by wanting to "keep it modern".

VR will have a more rhythm and groove sound, as Duff said, "keeping it in the pocket".  Gone will be the the extended guitar wanking, replaced with stealth solos that go as quickly as they come.  No excessive layering, but keeping the sound full with heavy rhythm guitars that can actually be heard and distinguished as their own entity underneath descending riffs and melodic vocals.  

From the get-go, I thought "Set Me Free" sounded more Cultish
than anything GNR or STP.  After reading the above article, I couldn't be more excited.  

It sounds as though the guys have found their musical identity.

[Booker Floyd]

I don't hear industrial sounds when I listen to some of the new GN'R tracks

Some, but by Axls own admission he has dobe that type of music and itll supposedly show up on the CD follow-up (as if such a thing will ever occur).

When I listen to "Oh My God," "Silkworms," or even "My World," I understand what Slash is talking about.  Those songs do feature a heavy industrial/electronic edge.  Like them or not, thats clearly not Slashs style, or Guns N' Roses style.
 

besides according to Slash Axl wanted to be Pearl Jam at some point. Not exactly your most Pro-Tools friendly bands out there.

Slash didnt want to sound like Pearl Jam either, its not about Pro-Tools at that point.

I'm not sure if Duff and Slash are on the same page regarding recording technology. Compare Dark Days to Ain't Life Grand. Loaded's album sounds more modern to me.

 

I said "Pro-Tools".  

"I try not to get caught up in Pro Tools; I’d rather play a song all the way through than sit there and edit parts together. "

I think Matt's idea of modern sounding is basically using computers in the music making. By that, I don't mean adding some car sounds to a song.

Digital editing and stuff like that.

Digital editing would mean Pro-Tools, and it doesnt necessarily make anything sound modern, its just a modern recording technique.

And like Ive said a few times, something like that (if thats even what it is) still doesnt compare to the relatively radical changes Axl had in mind (songs like "My World," "Silkworms," etc.).  

We'll have to wait and see if they used any Pro-Tools on Slash's stuff or only on the rest of the band's stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if Dave likes to play around with things like that.

How would you even tell if its only editing?  

This is where the "modern" confusion comes in.  Youre guessing that Matts idea of modern is digital editing or somehting...I dont see how anyone can have any clue what his idea of modern is based on what we have.  Axls idea of modern ("taking the band into the 21st century") is electronica.  Two entirely different concepts as far as I can tell.

I guess I can only go on whats there so far: "Set Me Free," "Slither," and "You Got No Right".  Havent heard studio versions of the last two, but I dont see any electronic or especially "modern".  Nothing out of the ordinary on "Set Me Free".  Compare that to any of the new GNR songs save for maybe "The Blues" (which is shaping up to feature synths ) and "Chinese Democracy".  Thats at least 3 tracks with industrial influence ("OMG," "SW")  or synths and samples ("Madagascar").  "Rhiad" has some of that too, right?  Either way, thats 3 or 4 out of the 6 songs weve heard so far.  Who knows what the other stuff even sounds like?  But its safe to say its a different direction and idea of modern than Velvet Revolvers.

[jarmo]

Yeah, two different ideas.


Basically Slash didn't want his previous bands to try new things. GN'R should be GN'R according to him, Snakepit wasn't exactly groundbreaking, Blues Ball played covers. His fourth band since joining GN'R are hoping to be something else than the traditional bluesy hard rock bands that he's been in so far.

You don't think that's interesting?

The guy has played with everybody from Iggy Pop to Blackstreet, but his own bands were supposed to keep doing whatever they were doing without any major evolution.

When VR started I was kinda worried that it might be Snakepit3 (luckily I was proven wrong).

From the get-go, I thought "Set Me Free" sounded more Cultish
than anything GNR or STP.  

Funny because I thought Set Me Free didn't sound "modern" enough. I thought it was a step back for Matt compared to Beyond Good And Evil.


The modern sound thing might also explain why they chose the producer they did.


/jarmo

[madagas]

You know what is funny? When people like Booker say Slash did not like what Axl was doing. Actually, and this was confirmed by Slash and Axl, it was Axl who flatly rejected the majority of proposals that Slash wanted to put on the next Guns record. Basically, told him they were shit and it was proven when he took that music and put out the Snakeshit record. I believe alot of Slash fans still hold a grudge against Axl for what is essentially a pretty big "diss". Now, before you go off on this, hear me out. Personally, I believe the band should have broken up. They were done personally and professionally. No blame to either side. Both play equal parts in the divorce. Slash is better off without Axl at this point and vice versa. I hope both bands do well and prosper.  

[Falcon]

From the get-go, I thought "Set Me Free" sounded more Cultish
than anything GNR or STP.  

Funny because I thought Set Me Free didn't sound "modern" enough. I thought it was a step back for Matt compared to Beyond Good And Evil.


The modern sound thing might also explain why they chose the producer they did.


/jarmo

I agree, it was a step back for Matt in comparison to "Beyond Good and Evil".  Nonetheless, a positive step forward into a modern rhythm and groove direction Slash and Duff had never ventured into, showing growth while utilizing their strengths as musicians.  

I think their direction into modern rock was evident from the start, choosing Weiland over the likes of Bach was clearly an effort to break into a genre Slash and Duff had never cracked.  The selection of Josh Abraham adds even more credibility to the band.

Alot of GNR fans consider Axl's forays into electronica and industrial music "growth".  Others consider it a grasp at staying current.  

It looks as though VR has found a path that shows growth
as musicians without chasing the coat tails of whatever is trendy
at the particular time.

True evolution with credibility.

[madagas]

Falcon, come on! Maybe Axl is just doing what he likes for christ sakes!! He has released one studio song in twelve years. You have no idea what he is doing, how the album will sound and what trend if any, it will follow. It is natural for Slash but not Axl??? Horseshit. Again, no sides chosen here but don't pigeonhole Axl because of a few songs played live.

[madagas]

and another thing..What the fuck is "modern" about STP/Weiland and the Cult. Plug in guitars, play chunky traditional rock riffs and sing radio friendly melodies?? All this "modern" shit is something created by radio programmers and alleged music critics. It's horseshit. It is rock and roll. Simple as that. Axl isn't doing anything Pink Floyd didn't do in the 70's (all the synthesizer stuff) either. This stuff is getting very irritating....I imagine it will be worse when the records come out but at least we will have a finished product to debate.

[Booker Floyd]

You know what is funny? When people like Booker say Slash did not like what Axl was doing.

He didnt...

Actually, and this was confirmed by Slash and Axl, it was Axl who flatly rejected the majority of proposals that Slash wanted to put on the next Guns record.

Whats your point?  That doesnt change that Slash ultimately left because he didnt agree with Axls direction...

Basically, told him they were shit

And then asked for them back...

and it was proven when he took that music and put out the Snakeshit record.

Your opinion...Its not a GNR record (it couldnt possibly be) but its far from being bad.  Most of it is pretty good...

And lets not forget that Axl himseld has said that Slashs work during that time was the best hed heard in years...

I believe alot of Slash fans still hold a grudge against Axl for what is essentially a pretty big "diss".

Maybe so, but not me.  Dont me wrong, I hold a grudge about a lot of what Axl did/does (critical is a better description), but thats not really one of them.

Now, before you go off on this, hear me out.

Personally, I believe the band should have broken up. They were done personally and professionally. No blame to either side. Both play equal parts in the divorce. Slash is better off without Axl at this point and vice versa. I hope both bands do well and prosper.  

I basically agree.  I wish they could have worked it out, but they couldnt so...