The GH story, the IRS connection, the possible future..

[HoldenCaulfield]

The reason I won't give my source is because of several things: I let it slip once and I was bombarded with emails and PM's, and if I say something that turns out not to be true, I don't want any of the blame to be put on my source. Plus, I'm not sure about the details, but a lot of things I'm told are in complete confidence, so if someone found out I had repeated them, it could mean trouble for someone.

[younggunner]

IF the day ever comes when Geffen drops Axl/GN'R THEN we can really talk about why...
... in the meantime, whats really hard to ignore is the FACT that whatever/however Axl does/has done... they are dealing with it.  And no one knows their reasons for that better than they do...  I for one can only assume that its because ultimately they see it to be in thier best interests to do so.  No one is doing anyone any fucking favors here.  The record company is not doing Axl any favors... Axl is not doing them any favors...  Its business between them.  As far as the fans - Axl does not owe us a damn thing... No guarantees have ever been issued...  If you are waiting for this album then thats your own damn decision... If you are pissed about havign tickets to a cancelled show - fine thats understandable BUT you must understand that THAT is all part and parcel of being a fan.  THE SAME WAY GEFFEN ACCEPTS THAT WHAT IS GOING ON IS PART AND PARCEL OF HAVING AXL/GNR ON YOUR TALENT ROSTER.

No one is forcing anyone to put up with anything.  No one is doing any one any favors here.
Its entertainment.  When BOTH Axl and Geffen agree that everything is in order the product will be made available to us.

I KNOW its difficult to put things in this perspective because for many of us we see it as so much more than entertainment.  But if you strip everything down to its most common denominators thats all it is - a commodity.

Axl/GN'R produce the product.  Geffen peddles it.  We choose to buy it or not.
For us hardcore fans it could come out a year or 10 years from now and we will still buy it - they don't need to 'sell it' to us.  They are preparing to sell it to the masses.  

And they ARE fighting a negative perception (regardless of the baisis for that)... they are very well aware of the controversy that surrounds the product they hope to peddle...  So who knows what it is that they are hoping to do to deal with that.  Could be that they are figuring that they will try and use Axl's 'reputation' to their advantage to gain publicity.
Could be that they REALLY ARE trying to piss him off so that he will speak out.

Motherfukers...  when i think about it...  ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS MONEY - that is what the art we love is reduced to in their eyes.  But hey thats the reality of things.  The record company has no heart.  I WOULD HOPE THAT YOU ALL CAN AT LEAST GIVE AXL THAT MUCH CREDIT.  HE IS ALL HEART.  This is his life's work for the past decade of his life.

Who here can attest to dedicating such an extended period of time on any one goal.
Other than raising my children and nurturing my marrige I can truly say that I have not.

So you gotta expect that this is a showdown.  A showdown between a cold calculating money making machine... and a man's blood sweat and tears and what he is or is not willing to sell or compromise.

as far as all the other stuff in this thread about Axl's temperment - so fucking what - i've said it before as have MANY others who are wise enough to see it - ITS IS ALL PART OF WHAT MAKES AXL WHO HE IS - you can't expect a person to only have positive passions... where waters run deep for love and creativity.. they also run deep for frustration and anger... and sadness.  Anyone who is capable  of feeing so intensely - is bound to experience it at both ends of the spectrum.

I've gone on longer than I intended and sorry for going off topic (I think!)  hehe
Bototm line...  obviously I have deep appreciation and respect for Axl and what he has exposed himself to (he doesn't NEED any of this shit)... what he has done not for us - but for what he has shared with us.

If Geffen is out to teach Axl a lesson... then I think they are really trying to fuck the wrong tree.  Its been said a million times - Axl is the rockstar that people either love or love to hate.  Eitherway  people give a shit - and will fork over the dollar for the priveledge to do so.

Excellent fukin post! I would add more comments but that post says it all......Good Stuff  

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

great post KV...

 

what i hope is that Axl and the whole band and thier management - that GUNS N' ROSES gets what they need from the record company to accomplish their goal - which is to come out with Chinese Democracy and take over the world!

Give 'em hell Axl!  Give 'em hell GN'R!  

GUNS!!! N!!! RO-SES!!!

GUNS!!! N!!! RO-SES!!!

GUNS!!! N!!! RO-SES!!!

[killingvector]

"Again , you say the tracklist sucks..I say it rocks!! These are the songs the original GNR CHOSE to put out as singles!!! They ARE great songs! Thats MY opinion. It does nothing for loyal fans who've hung around this long because this wasnt created for "loyal" fans..this is a nice lil album for the non-hardcore fans a bunch of songs that WILL get some people hooked on GNR who probably never heard them before."

5 cover songs on a GH is pathetic. these are not the best GnR tracks. my opinion of course, but shared by many. As for loyal fans, who the hell else is around? why not throw a new song or an old unreleased demo or video extra on there to get the loyal fans to buy it.

"You say no new song , no promise of a new song? Well how on earth do you expect the label to put new songs on there? You want the label to learn to play and sing and record them thereselves?! Axl aint giving them shit... they cant just pull new songs from thin air. And how can they promise new songs when they probably dont hear from axl any more often then we do?"

lots of GH contain one or two new songs on it as a carrot to buy. if axl isn't compromising with this then maybe it is because they are wrong.

"You say the label must give the new guys credit... credit for what exactly? They havent done shit all since joining GNR. One new song , OMG has been released. I liked it..but it wasnt a "hit" .... they tried touring , that bombed big time , they went on MTV and were redicled by everyone except us hardcore fans."

the old band is dead. if the label is going to get a new album it will be from the new guys. i assume that the new guys are under contract and GnR is under contract with the label; therefore the new guys are under contract from the label. Why release old stuff from a band that is dead when the new guys have completed their work on the new album.

"You got one thing very right there...this band doesnt seem to exist anymore."

sorry you are on your little soapbox today but i am right about alot of things here. you are wrong.


"few songs? 4 albums jammed with great songs is more like it. The new band will have a hard time creating the body of work the old band did in such a short amount of time. "

AFD was great. UYI I and II were loaded with filler. TSI were all covers and Lies had only four decent songs on it.

"Money making play? I would hope it is...I certainly dont blame the label for wanting to finally make back a little money since axl hasnt made them a dime in years and years. "

axl wants to make his art. the label wants to cash out. this is a cash out ploy which doesn't make any effort to give back to the fans. it sucks. they could do alot of things for us; there is alot of material to draw from, either Live Performances or a second tier new song, but they would rather toss together a pathetic singles album of songs every one has heard instead of marketing the new band to old and new fans at once.


"Promote the artistry of the new band?! WHAT artistry of the new band? Buckethead is the only guy in the band constantly releasing new music... you want the label to start sellimg prints of robins collages? Seriously , what artistry from this new band is there to promote..seriously..answer that."

the new guys rock. If you don't realize this they you haven't been paying attention. I don't get why you chose today to formulate an opinion like this and spew it all over the board but you have. My point is that the label should be loyal to the people in the band now and not simply look to cash out. The new band is so good, the label has a great deal to draw from, live performances and some studio material. If the GH were a vehicle to get to know the new guys, i would say it's ok. But it is not. why not put the studio or live version of maddie or rhiad on there to showcase what the new band can do.

"I love the new band to death..I'm a staunch supporter but we aint hearing from them , they aint throwing us a bone..they havent spoken in over a year..they fucked up a tour and went home. And locked the door."

they don't hate on those of us who want to see them succeed.
"

"This GH album wasnt hurting anyone , nobody had to buy it..but one things for sure , that tracklist woulda won over a few younger people if and when they get a chance to buy it."

it does hurt GnR because it is a pathetic tracklist. Gnr isn't about 5 covers or about the old guys anymore. if there is to be a new album and new players, the time for the bucketheads and robin finck's is here. To remind everyone what it used to be makes it even more difficult for the public to accept the new guys.

"Just because me or you have heard all these songs a million times , just because we own the songs or dont think it's the BEST gnr songs dont mean squat. These ARE the singles GNR chose to release..."

then let the public get Live Era or better buy the albums because it's all out there. The general public doesn't care about remastering.


J"As for the new band.. axl outta just put out an album or shut his fucking mouth about "you'll see it" "we'll be back next summer with a whole bunch of new songs" & crap like that...."

who knows what is going on.

[loretian]

The reason I won't give my source is because of several things: I let it slip once and I was bombarded with emails and PM's, and if I say something that turns out not to be true, I don't want any of the blame to be put on my source. Plus, I'm not sure about the details, but a lot of things I'm told are in complete confidence, so if someone found out I had repeated them, it could mean trouble for someone.

Just a heads up, guys, but TiedHands is legit.  I spoke with him a little, and I went to great lengths to validate him, and I'm 100% certain he's telling the truth.  This is a fact, not a conjecture on my part- I've directly confirmed that he's telling the truth.

Give him a break though, he's just trying to fill us in and keep us informed, he doesn't need to be barraged with PM's or anything.  He's telling us what he can already, and I really don't want to see him annoyed so he stops visiting.  

[Saul]

I think the tracklist rocks , I cant wait to hear the "remastered" afd songs , it'll be nice to have all the "singles" on one official compact disc , it will be GREAT to go into a store and buy a new GNR disc.

If Axl doesnt like it then he shoulda did something a couple years ago to stop it..release his album. If he really had faith in himself and his band and/or cared about fans he woulda had an album thats been 99.9% done according to everyone close to GNR out years ago.

If the label are looking to make a dollar by doing this then BIG SURPRISE!!! Thats what record labels do..try and make money. How many new releases has axl given them last few years to make money off of?

Thought so.

The greatest hits album is coming out no matter how much crying you all do , no matter how many threads you create and no matter how many petitions you sign... too bad. Buy it or ignore it.

It might be the only official GNR release you will be able to buy this year.  

[killingvector]

saul and i have nothing but love for each other so no matter how harsh my language gets, there is always respect, something i must remember sometimes when i hold onto my opinion as hard as i do.

[Saul]

I dont know this guy.  

[Thumper]

I dont know this guy.  

But it sounds like he'd like to know you    Back on topic please.

[killingvector]

ok the mods beat me to the bunch.

i hope this album gets pulled and quick.

[Midnight Gunner]

I wonder what Dark and Mysterion have to say about things now?

[Bucketofguns]

Isn't it funny that it is exctly one year after this thread is first created?  Well it did take a year, but we did get TWAT and half of Better, maybe as a slap to AXL maybe as a promotion or maybe just by an innocent mistake.  One thing is clear, it seems likely that we will get an official statement from Sancuary this week.  The more WAAF and other stations play IRS, the greater the chance that this whole leak was planed and CD is finally coming out.

[Midnight Gunner]

I dunno, my brain is tired of these little games everyone keeps playing with us.  I just hope somebody says somsthing soon...if they do, it's obviously good I guess...if not, than you know it's gotta be bad news for Axl and the rest of us.

I dunno...nice link to Milf Hunter though. LOL 

[Bucketofguns]

I dunno, my brain is tired of these little games everyone keeps playing with us.? I just hope somebody says somsthing soon...if they do, it's obviously good I guess...if not, than you know it's gotta be bad news for Axl and the rest of us.

I dunno...nice link to Milf Hunter though. LOL?

Thanks, what I really should do is just go to WAAF myself and ask the DJs what they know.  I do work in the same building and know a few of them.  Hopefully I will have a report tomorrow night.

[Wando]

"This point is big - its the 3rd time I've heard (from two different people now) in the last 8 months that there is a huge desire to 'punish' Axl for all of these delays.  IRS was step one in that punishment.  GH is step two.  leaks are step three.  step four is 'cut our losses and just drop this failed project'
"
Doesn't look too good. Though it took suspiciously long for the GN'R management to react. Is there any chance that Axl agreed to a realesedate and then they (=management) began to get the tracks off the radio and internet?

[kyrie]

I wonder what Dark and Mysterion have to say about things now?

This is the type of thing that should have a fresh post for... else people like me just read page one of the thread and wonder WTF is going on...

[kyrie]

"This point is big - its the 3rd time I've heard (from two different people now) in the last 8 months that there is a huge desire to 'punish' Axl for all of these delays.  IRS was step one in that punishment.  GH is step two.  leaks are step three.  step four is 'cut our losses and just drop this failed project'
"
Doesn't look too good. Though it took suspiciously long for the GN'R management to react. Is there any chance that Axl agreed to a realesedate and then they (=management) began to get the tracks off the radio and internet?

You're replying to a thread that's from 2004. This is why ppl should not ressurect old threads.

Also, dark's original theory was entertaining but highly unlikely for a number of legal reasons. We know why IRS was leaked the first time.

[Midnight Gunner]

I wonder what Dark and Mysterion have to say about things now?

This is the type of thing that should have a fresh post for... else people like me just read page one of the thread and wonder WTF is going on...

We already have enough duplicate threads.

[Stupid Head]

Isn't it funny that it is exctly one year after this thread is first created??

2 years actually.?

[Wando]

"This point is big - its the 3rd time I've heard (from two different people now) in the last 8 months that there is a huge desire to 'punish' Axl for all of these delays.  IRS was step one in that punishment.  GH is step two.  leaks are step three.  step four is 'cut our losses and just drop this failed project'
"
Doesn't look too good. Though it took suspiciously long for the GN'R management to react. Is there any chance that Axl agreed to a realesedate and then they (=management) began to get the tracks off the radio and internet?

You're replying to a thread that's from 2004. This is why ppl should not ressurect old threads.

Also, dark's original theory was entertaining but highly unlikely for a number of legal reasons. We know why IRS was leaked the first time.

Yes. I'm aware of that. Just trying to bring "the new point of view" in discussion. And I don't know why IRS was leaked the first time, care to explain?