Fall to Pieces video now at Launch.com

[jarmo]

Oh shut your stupid cakehole.? Boring old bag.

Having a bad day (again)?

 



/jarmo

[K-Rock]

ding ding ding. its totally played out. maybe if you are a 15 year old boy you are tickled by two girls kissing, but if this band wants real credibility, they need to appeal to more than the horny teenager male fanbase.?
take this tip guys: midgets and girls kissing are all very OVER concepts in rock videos.

Sorry to inform you that 95% of straight men are "tickled by" two girls kissing.? In fact I'd rather watch 2 girls kissing than porn.

To those who think 2 girls kissing is "lesbianism"......straight girls "hook-up" now and then.

I've observed it first hand many times in normal party or bar settings.? And it's no longer only for the enjoyment of men.? Some "straight" girls enjoy kissing other girls.

Later in this thread, badgirl, you speak of "negative representations" and "stereotypes".? What's the negative represention?? If a girl wants to kiss another girl, it's a negative representation??? Two girls together is no longer negative.? If it's so negative then why do women, even those who would not think of being with another woman, enjoy watching porn with 2 women together??

[TyRod Tulip]

Sorry to inform you that 95% of straight men are "tickled by" two girls kissing.? In fact I'd rather watch 2 girls kissing than porn.

I think that number might be a little low K-Rock.   

I know of exactly zero men that don't like watching women kiss each other (my guess is that there are some gay guys out there that don't but I don't know any personally).  Hell, I'm 33 and happily married and I can watch women kiss each other all day (wish I could get my wife to do it )

The video is great, even if the femenist movement has a problem with it.

-TyRod-

[badgirl]

ding ding ding. its totally played out. maybe if you are a 15 year old boy you are tickled by two girls kissing, but if this band wants real credibility, they need to appeal to more than the horny teenager male fanbase.?
take this tip guys: midgets and girls kissing are all very OVER concepts in rock videos.

Sorry to inform you that 95% of straight men are "tickled by" two girls kissing.? In fact I'd rather watch 2 girls kissing than porn.

To those who think 2 girls kissing is "lesbianism"......straight girls "hook-up" now and then.

I've observed it first hand many times in normal party or bar settings.? And it's no longer only for the enjoyment of men.? Some "straight" girls enjoy kissing other girls.

Later in this thread, badgirl, you speak of "negative representations" and "stereotypes".? What's the negative represention?? If a girl wants to kiss another girl, it's a negative representation??? Two girls together is no longer negative.? If it's so negative then why do women, even those who would not think of being with another woman, enjoy watching porn with 2 women together??

look, i really don't want to argue about this. however, since you asked me a question i will do my best to answer: women making out in the framework of rock videos (which have a long history of being completely mysogonistic) is not done because the girls like it. Velvet Revolver is made up of men, the video was directed and (mostly likely conceptualized) by men, and it is trying to appeal to men with that provocative little clip (what, you think girls are going to watch that and get turned on?). so yes, the girls were not forced to do anything but that is not the point. female sexuality has a long history of being depicted as a male entity- meaning that women hook up for men, not for themselves. Pornography is very guilty of this but it trickles down into many other avenues of pop culture or anywhere else where sexuality is displayed prominently (but largely in pop cuture because we all know that sex works terrificly as a marketing device). SO...since women's sexuality is rarely depicted as something FOR us, about OUR pleasure and is instead depicted as something we do "for you guys", that is a bad thing. Those girls were not making out with each other away from the camera or alone, but in front of Matt, doing it to tittilate him and to titillate the viewers.
Look, this is all theoretical but most of you don't even realize the way women's sexuality is represented because you (and many women too) are so used to it. But its not the best thing, and i don't like to see it perpetuated by a group that i like.
Do i still like Velvet Revolver? yes. Am i still going to buy their albums? obviously. But this is an observation i am making about the video, supported by lots of study i have done on this very topic (as well as being a somewhat astute and aware female living in this world).
take it for what its worth.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

man, the old american " 2 girls kissing"
i dont get it.
i mean, who's gonna take care of me if the 2 girls start kissing ....

and badgirl is right. when i saw that scene i was like " .... how original ......".
i personnaly don't dig lesbians. i am a lesbian.

anyway.
i love scott's wife haircut, but i hate her clothes, man, that puffy shirt ( jerry ?? lol ) ....

[badgirl]

man, the old american " 2 girls kissing"
i dont get it.
i mean, who's gonna take care of me if the 2 girls start kissing ....

and badgirl is right. when i saw that scene i was like " .... how original ......".
i personnaly don't dig lesbians. i am a lesbian.

anyway.
i love scott's wife haircut, but i hate her clothes, man, that puffy shirt ( jerry ?? lol ) ....

are you a lesbian? because if you are, i am curious if you are at all tired of the one-dimensional representiations of women's sexuality, specifically, bi-sexuality or lesbianism.
Scott's wife is beautiful. they both have a great unique sense of style.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

man, the old american " 2 girls kissing"
i dont get it.
i mean, who's gonna take care of me if the 2 girls start kissing ....

and badgirl is right. when i saw that scene i was like " .... how original ......".
i personnaly don't dig lesbians. i am a lesbian.

anyway.
i love scott's wife haircut, but i hate her clothes, man, that puffy shirt ( jerry ?? lol ) ....

are you a lesbian? because if you are, i am curious if you are at all tired of the one-dimensional representiations of women's sexuality, specifically, bi-sexuality or lesbianism.
Scott's wife is beautiful. they both have a great unique sense of style.

i mean, i'm a guy so i wasnt THAT serious abouyt the lesbian thing ...
i just wanna say that people take sex WAAYYY too seriously. i mean, it's supposed to fun .... deep throat's fun ?_?
about scott's wife, she is kinda hot, but i really love a hairstyle and look. she has a weird face but very attractive anyway.

[younggunner]

she has a weird face but very attractive anyway.

That comment might ignite a fury of posts that would analyze and justify the dimensions of Ms Sour Girls face

[mikegiuliana]

Very cool video! 2 thumbs up! No doubt it'll goin' straight to #1
You can put it in the same category as many of the old GN'R.

? ? Velvet Revolver Rock!?

I hope so, be sure to vote for them on mtv2 link pinned to the board..

Video is wesom, doesn't that look like duff's old bass with the pretty tied up sticker..?

[Booker Floyd]

Look, this is all theoretical but most of you don't even realize the way women's sexuality is represented because you (and many women too) are so used to it. But its not the best thing, and i don't like to see it perpetuated by a group that i like.

You mustve had a hard time with Guns...

By the way, VH1 has been running a lot of promos about premiering "Fall To Pieces" tomorrow at 9 PM.  Its almost being treated like an event, which I find pretty cool.  I cant recall them doing this for any recent videos - does anybody else? 

[Ignatius]

Sure it does...Its the guys having fun and drinking at a Starwood party.? The guys are all with their chicks - 4 of them happened to be married.? Matt isnt, and thats quite clear.? And like Ive said three times - You dont see that the scene is meant as a contrast between the bands good time and Scotts pain?? Its obvious thats the purpose.

That's your perception, not mine. To me it's just " hey, what do we do with Matt"? " let's just have a little scene with a couple of girls so we can have the whole Rock and Roll image going"

And its nothing new as you know.? Guns did it (in a much more obvious and gratuitous manner) in "SIDHY".

Yeah Book, but that happened 10 years ago. It made more sense doing it then...also with SCOM 17 years ago.

So if Matts actually with multiple young women, it doesnt make sense?

I'm sure it does to him in real life. But not in this video. This video is not about each band member's life...otherwise we would have seen Duff showing everybody he has mastered the secrets of Kung Fu!!!?

Yeah...that doesnt have much to do with this particular complaint.

It does if the band wants some credibility. I'm not saying they don't have it, but things like the issues here mentioned make me go " Man, this made sense 10 years ago, not now"

[badgirl]

^^^ Reilly, doesn't it almost seem like, when they were sitting around the conference table conceptualizing this video, they had a checklist: rock n roll? check. drugs? check. sex?..... shit! no sex, okay Matt, you have to whore it up a bit to complete the holy rock n roll trinity.
 

p.s. i don't really remember Guns being exploitative of women in their videos... if anything, i thougt it was the opposite? (remember, Its So Easy never was released)
am i missing something? sweet child, paradise city, jungle (which, aside from the shot of the chick in the beginning..), Patience (women in and out of Slash's bed was all), YCBM, obviously the 3 main videos from UYI were all about love and loss. furthermore, i specifically remember Axl saying that, in casting Stephanie, he wanted to make sure this wasn't a "tits and ass" video. garden and garden of eden, no? Live and Let Die... i would say they were shockingly un-exploitative. 
 

[Booker Floyd]

p.s. i don't really remember Guns being exploitative of women in their videos... if anything, i thougt it was the opposite? (remember, Its So Easy never was released)
am i missing something? sweet child, paradise city, jungle (which, aside from the shot of the chick in the beginning..), Patience (women in and out of Slash's bed was all), YCBM, obviously the 3 main videos from UYI were all about love and loss. furthermore, i specifically remember Axl saying that, in casting Stephanie, he wanted to make sure this wasn't a "tits and ass" video. garden and garden of eden, no? Live and Let Die... i would say they were shockingly un-exploitative. 

I was alluding to their lyrical content (you going to defend that?)...but since you brought up videos, youre forgetting...

"The Garden" (Tons of strippers, girl-on-girl stuff)
"Since I Dont Have You" (Like I said, thats truly gratuitous lesbian action)

And why would you simply say "Women in and out of Slashs bed is all"?  You could just as easily say "Matt making out with two girls is all" about "FTP".  And saying "ISE" wasnt released is a cop-out because they still made it.  They still, as you say, demeaned women 50 times worse than in "Fall To Pieces".

I'm sure it does to him in real life. But not in this video. This video is not about each band member's life...otherwise we would have seen Duff showing everybody he has mastered the secrets of Kung Fu!!!

Yeah..or we would see Duff dealing with Scott and his heroi...oh wait.    It doesnt have to be about Matt Sorums life to feature elements of his life...I mean, this is getting silly.  Im puzzled to see fans of bands like GNR and VR actually take such issue with something as trivial as two girls kissing. 

[badgirl]

i don't have any problems with two girls kissing. what i have problems with are
1. women kissing for the tittilation and entertainment of men
2. women kissing being overused as a concept in popular culture (especially now- once Britney Spears does something, i would pretty much say "its over".)

I suppose another issue i have with it, and yes, i do understand the contrast they were trying to create, is that it is a heavy, serious video. i know that they wanted to show the band in a lighter mode (much like they did in the Don't Cry video), but i thought the girls kissing was too much, almost disrespectful to the rest of the video (which i felt was amazing and powerful). It was also distracting. I was really into the video and that scene takes me out of it every time (and, truth be told, it is just another example of Matt's overcompensation). what i think? i think Matt hates being the only single guy in the band. Its cool when you are in your 20s, but in your 40s, most men realize how trivial one-nighters are and they long for something more. i think that's why Matt talks so much about getting laid by 21 year olds. thou dost protest too much.

just a little armchair.

[Mattman]

Just saw the video premiere on MuchOnDemand, and I was really impressed.  I liked the video for Slither, not so much as a concept, but because it showed the band could do a powerful performance, showcased Scott's charisma and Iggy Pop-ish stage movements, and made the song rock even harder.  But just as a lot of people have said, it did remind me a lot of the Don't Cry/November Rain -type GN'R videos, when it showed the band partying and having issues.  It was pretty ballsy, actually to deal with heroin addiction in a mainstream music video.  I knew as soon as I saw it that this was a different animal than any other video in this corporate age.  Velvet Revolver didn't convince me earlier that they're gonna bring danger back to rock 'n' roll - come on, they're all like 40.  But this video at least showed that they were willing to take chances and provide a different concept than other bands.  Like Amanda said on MOD, it presents the "seedy underbelly" of rock culture, and I can't remember the last time I saw that in a music video.  Good job, Velvets. 

And now, because this thread has also become somewhat of a debate on lesbianism in videos, I feel obligated to contribute my own two cents to the situation...

Sorry to inform you that 95% of straight men are "tickled by" two girls kissing.? In fact I'd rather watch 2 girls kissing than porn.

I think that number might be a little low K-Rock.? ?

I know of exactly zero men that don't like watching women kiss each other (my guess is that there are some gay guys out there that don't but I don't know any personally).? Hell, I'm 33 and happily married and I can watch women kiss each other all day (wish I could get my wife to do it )

The video is great, even if the femenist movement has a problem with it.

-TyRod-

Well, TyRod, I might be your first exception.  It's not that I don't like I don't like watching girls kiss each other - it's titilating enough - but I really don't understand this whole fascination that other guys have with lesbianism.  Why?  Because it's two girls kissing EACH OTHER.  Call me selfish, but I would much rather be kissing a girl myself.  If I wanted to just watch, I would have stayed home and watched porn on my computer.  The whole point about lesbians is that THEY DON'T LIKE MEN.  And for me personally, I've always had a big complex about how women seem to hate men or be disinterested in them, when you compare how most men feel about women.  I mean, this one time I was at a party and these two girls said, "hey, let's put on a show for Matt," and started making out.  But I just got up and left.  The whole thing just seemed stupid and pointless to me.  When you're not picking up any girls that night, the last thing you want to see is two of them making out with each other instead of with you.  I mean, the thought that straight girls would rather make out with each other than with you, a guy, is a little unflattering, don't you think? 

See, I don't know if women kiss to impress guys or because they like it themselves - probably a combo of both.  But I think I really do have to side with badgirl in this situation.  The women kissing thing in popular culture is totally played out - I would almost rather see two guys kissing at this point, just because it would be different.  And if women are making out only for the titilation of men - fuck that.  I don't think they are, though.  To me, the instance of "straight" women kissing each other just reminds me that women dislike men so much they're willing to go for each other instead. 

That said, I thought the thing in the video was not a big deal - just showed the overall carnival atmosphere that the band profuses to practice.  Me personally, I just rolled my eyes at the lesbian kiss.  Way to go, Matt - you're watching two girls kiss.  You don't have to be a rock star to do that, you just need to own a computer.  A minor detail, rather insignificant.  It's not wrong, just boring.  Unlike the video as a whole, which was riveting.

Rock on, VR.

[Eazy E]

I just caught the video on MuchOnDemand... it was their "Premiere" this week.  The fan they spoke with after said they thought it was awesome (and they'll probably like the band more).

This video looks a hell of a lot better when I'm not watching a 300k version on Launch.  I can see this catching on.   

[Booker Floyd]

Way to go, Matt - you're watching two girls kiss.?

He was kissing the girls himself...It was a threesome, which kind of negates most of the points you make.  He wasnt just sitting there watching, he was participating in a group encounter.

[Ignatius]

Yeah..or we would see Duff dealing with Scott and his heroi...oh wait.? ? It doesnt have to be about Matt Sorums life to feature elements of his life...I mean, this is getting silly.? Im puzzled to see fans of bands like GNR and VR actually take such issue with something as trivial as two girls kissing.?

And I even feel more puzzled that you don't get my point!!!!

For me it's not the kissing thing that annoys me. I've already explained that. It's the Rock and Roll image they are trying to sell with that scene. It's way out their league now....

Anyway, I like the video. That's the bottom line....

[jarmo]

Booker, those GN'R videos were made 10-15 years ago. Things have changed in that time wouldn't you say?

Do you think if somebody made an all animated video today people would say "Wow, that's really groundbreaking!"? No, things have changed a bit since the 1980s.

Here's something else for you Booker, since I know you love my posts asking questions. Does anybody find it a bit funny that VR are now filming the kind of videos Axl wanted GN'R to make? The kinds that tells a story? At least they didn't make Slash "act" like he did in the GN'R videos. 



/jarmo

[jabba2]

Theres nothing wrong with Matt and the boys having some fun with lesbians, while Scotts dying in the next room of heroin overdose. So maybe they treat lesbians badly in this video... they make great music.? But i think someone needs to drive Duff over to Axl's mansion so he can straighten him out. Right now Axl is probably laying sideways a chair strung out on coffee or something.