recording with computers the real down fall of music

[D]

is it a coincidence that all the classic and great riffs and songs came in a time where no one really used computers to record? back when it was guys in a studio with reel to reel tape and capturing magic on tape.

Now people manipulate and record music via computers which strip some of the heart and soul from it in my opinion.

Music use to be raw and just in your face, now it is too processed and the production is too clear, not enough raw, realness.


bands record songs now without even being in the same room with each other, does anyone think it strips some of that chemistry and vibe?

I know that bands and musicians didnt all of a sudden start sucking, thats not possible, but yet i cant tell u one riff since the computer era that will be remembered. hell not really even one song that i can say is classic and timeless.

[Chris Misfit]

bands record songs now without even being in the same room with each other, does anyone think it strips some of that chemistry and vibe?

Yes. Of course it does. But as I've said before, take away the money, and you'll get raw.

thats not possible, but yet i cant tell u one riff since the computer era that will be remembered. hell not really even one song that i can say is classic and timeless.

Probably not remembered, but Riffs and solos by EF, Turbonegro, Wildhearts and Winnebago Deal, are some of my favourites from a record collection that spans nearly 60 years of music.

I personally think that the commercial rock scene has got so far removed from "whats real" that if kids heard a raw song today, they'd turn their nose up like they were a 70 year old. It's like, everything is too perfect, and yeah, well I don't listen to commercial music, as I said before I like bouncing riffs, amazing solos, and alot of noise, and you just don't get that with commercial music.

[jarmo]

is it a coincidence that all the classic and great riffs and songs came in a time where no one really used computers to record? back when it was guys in a studio with reel to reel tape and capturing magic on tape.

No, the thing is, people always look back and think "those were the days".

Now people manipulate and record music via computers which strip some of the heart and soul from it in my opinion.

It depends how you use the computers.

Music use to be raw and just in your face, now it is too processed and the production is too clear, not enough raw, realness.

That's just because the trend is a certain way. An album has to sound a certain way to be trendy.

bands record songs now without even being in the same room with each other, does anyone think it strips some of that chemistry and vibe?

Hasn't that been around for years?

I know that bands and musicians didnt all of a sudden start sucking, thats not possible, but yet i cant tell u one riff since the computer era that will be remembered. hell not really even one song that i can say is classic and timeless.

Didn't you think VR are awesome?





/jarmo

[D]

VR are awesome but when i first heard GNR i knew it was something special, Nirvana Nevermind, Pearl Jam's ten, i mean u just knew.

I agree with Misfit about the commercial music.

Jon Bon Jovi said it best that record labels are all about the singles now, they dont care about a complete album from beginning to end that moves listeners they only care about the digital download or the single or the first week sales and they find a formula of band that kids are buying and mass produce it and move on to the next.


VR are different cause they are old school guys, they wrote the music together, they sit together and wrote and worked on it, then used a computer etc

im talkin bout bands like the hip hop guys, or the way some rock bands record now, u jam on your guitar for an hour and then copy and paste different parts together till its a song

i just dont like that process.

[jarmo]

im talkin bout bands like the hip hop guys, or the way some rock bands record now, u jam on your guitar for an hour and then copy and paste different parts together till its a song

i just dont like that process.

Not everybody does it that way.

It's just a trend. Like disco.....


Oh, and I wouldn't be surprised if GN'R has used some of these technologies.



/jarmo

[D]

u know something scary, there are probably kids out there who think Good Charlotte and Simple Plan are better than GNR.

does music suck these days cause im gettin older? does it really suck? i mean to teenagers does music today rock as hard to them as music did to us when we were teenagers?

[jarmo]

does music suck these days cause im gettin older? does it really suck? i mean to teenagers does music today rock as hard to them as music did to us when we were teenagers?

Most music sucks. 


I discovered a bunch of bands in the early to mid-90s. Then after that, the amount of bands I've discovered just decreased.

So the majority of music I listen to, is what I listened to ten years ago.




/jarmo

[Chris Misfit]

does music suck these days cause im gettin older? does it really suck? i mean to teenagers does music today rock as hard to them as music did to us when we were teenagers?

When you look back, you can pick 3 or 4 classic bands, so you compare those bands to the hit of the week bands, who won't be around next month. Music is still as good, better I think,  it's just the things around the music that have changed.

[nemo]

.

does music suck these days cause im gettin older? does it really suck? i mean to teenagers does music today rock as hard to them as music did to us when we were teenagers?

i think it does yeah, there are a few decent bands around, but none deserve to be remembered in 30 years time the way zep or sabbath are today

[D]

thats my point, i mean people who grew up with that think zepplin and sabbath, rolling stones whoever are just the greatest bands on the planet where as ill take a bon jovi prince or guns n roses cd over any of those bands stuff. is it cause i grew up listening to that and not zepplin,sabbath etc?

just like kids today probably think Good Charlotte or Linkin Park are the next led zepplin *which isnt true* but to them i bet its the greatest deepest shit ever whereas we think its crap. *except linkin park i think they kick ass!*

[DEAD HORSE]

is it a coincidence that all the classic and great riffs and songs came in a time where no one really used computers to record? back when it was guys in a studio with reel to reel tape and capturing magic on tape.

No, the thing is, people always look back and think "those were the days".


I dont think "those were the days" attitude  has anything to do with today's music tastes, I mean  Im a kinda guy who loves music like from Frank Sinatra to Slayer.
I listen to a lot of electronic ,new age music and i enjoy listening to it and its made with computers and stuff like that. But Listening to today's music, makes me  realize everything they do was done before, theres nothing new to offer in any way, lyrically or musically with exceptions for instance A perfect Circle wich i respect as a band. 
so when i listen to a band like White Stripes or The Strokes or shit like that Im the first one to say "fuck!!  Where is the deepness, the soul, or maybe  the dark side of this "band"?  Its nothing new to me, its a "recyclable band" as i  call them.
By the way computers have nothing to do with it, i mean, look at Depeche Mode last album , simply Brilliant!
and as u say , I bet Chinese  Democracy will have this new technology on it.

[MadmanDan]

Computers turn art into shit.Look at today's cartoons,like Shrek,Finding Nemo,etc. Sure,they're fun,they have an excellent script,but give me old cartoons drawn by hand anyday.

Music,like cartoons,is art,and computers will never be able to do it like a human,because art comes from the soul

[Slashly]

The problem with computers and digitall shit is that it makes all sound perfect, at the exact same volume every fucking perfectly pitched and that, my friends, just sucks.I mean, how can you feel that it?s and actuall band playing or just a computer making sounds?!Music, rock, jazz, blues, etc MUST HAVE IT?S ROUGHNESS!!If not, you just cant feel it.
Look at pop comercial, now a days products, say Britney Spears.That woman basically stays 3 day in the recording studio and then the producer  and  digital bastards saty 6 months making everything sound perfect.That may work for her, but not for rock or blues.Can you imagine Robet Johnsons album, being recorded nowadays??That would just be horrible, all perfect and  recorded in 3 years time!!If you play that RJ record you almost feel like you?re in the same room as him.That was the good thing.
I should say from, like 94,95,96 there hasnt been a record that makes me feel that way, and that just depreses me.....
Just my 2 cents.





Baby Slash//

[Mattman]

Computers aren't necessarily a bad thing in music.? They're a tool, like any other instrument.? It's not the computers that make riffs unmemorable, it's the musicians behind them.? After all, 80s hair metal is one of my favourite genres of music, and a lot of that is very highly produced.? But that's not a bad thing if it's done properly.? Def Leppard probably used a lot of computers and stuff on albums like Hysteria, one of the most meticulously recorded albums ever made.? But that album is packed with memorable riffs.? It's all because the band used the production techniques and computers to enhance the music they already had.

I think that we are simply in an age of highly produced music, just like the 80s (except for bands like GN'R on Appetite).? If the riffs and songs are unmemorable, it's solely the fault of the bands and the record companies.? Highly produced doesn't have to? mean bad, if the music at its heart is done well.? But I have to agree with you; things are getting a little too highly produced for my taste.? You can tell when a band uses production to cover up weak songs.? Just compare Green Day to Good Charlotte.? Green Day are the original grandmasters of punk-pop and they just produced an album packed with great songs that don't require a lot of spiffy production to get their message across.? Good Charlotte are a band that, more often than not, covers up lackluster songwriting with lots of production and computers.? I mean, their new single, "Predictable", is a very weak song - nowhere near as catchy as some of their other songs have been - but the enormous amount of production in it clearly tries to make you think it is.

It's an ironic fact to me that Nirvana came along in 1991 to wipe out the overproduced 80s hair bands (which I like just as much as the flannel set), but it wasn't long before "alternative" music was corporatized, to the extent that now we're right back where we were, but the music isn't as fun.? It's an irony that they still use the label "alternative" to describe some of the most corporate rock music ever.

Of course, all this has been just talking about the effect of computers on rock music.? Rap, R&B, and pop are all far worse - it all feels so bubblegum, too sugary and overproduced.? Rap, by definition, is not based on people playing instruments, so I guess you can't really fault them for using computers.? But it's still a far cry from NWA's "Fuck Tha Police" to anything by 50 Cent.? Just reflective of the general castration of popular music, aided and abetted by computers.? After all, where would Britney Spears be today if it weren't for computers?? She'd maybe be trying to get onto the Mouseketeers reunion tour.

[Chris Misfit]

It's an ironic fact to me that Nirvana came along in 1991 to wipe out the overproduced 80s hair bands (which I like just as much as the flannel set), but it wasn't long before "alternative" music was corporatized, to the extent that now we're right back where we were, but the music isn't as fun.  It's an irony that they still use the label "alternative" to describe some of the most corporate rock music ever.

Funny you mention that, and it's probably the most intelligent thing ever said on this board! Go to the thread I just started and check out what  Steve Albini (Nirvana, Dog Toffee producer) had to say about it!
 

[Eazy E]

Out of curiosity... how do you write most of your songs D?  Do you have a group of musicians come together and you just jam until you get something you can sink your teeth into, then hit the studio with that energy?  Or do you mess around with your tracks on the computer until you get something you like?

I don't know if I'd say computers have been hurting music.. I just don't think writing a quality song is a top priority anymore, since you only need one hit song and a gimmick to get in the public eye.  However, I think someone like Axl Rose, who is determined to write quality songs, will only produce better material with a computer.

[D]

i use the old fashioned home 8 track studio that u put your instrument in and play till its perfect, if i fuck up i cant fix it with my mouse, which is why my vocals are a little off sometimes, i dont have the capabilities to click my mouse and make my vocals perfect.

so basically its almost like recording live, i dont have any type of studio magic to improve anything, so i have to play a song maybe 20 or 30 times to get it done great and i have to sing it maybe 50 times.
i write the song by playin guitar and singing till i get a good melody and an idea of how i want it to go and then i write the lyrics, sometimes it all comes in my head at the same time, other times ill have the lyrics and write music around them. before i record ive usually spent months playin it and singing it and gettin everything right with it.


i write and play the instruments, so ill come up with the bare bones acoustic guitar part and ill find a drum beat to fit it, ill record the drums with the guitar.


next ill sing a placement vocal just to have something to guide off of to record other instruments *its hard to do a guitar solo without hearin the vocals*

next ill do bass, then ill try to do some texturized keyboard thing *when it fits* ill add another guitar part or two,  and then im ready for the vocals. i sit down with the instrument and play over and over till i get something that adds to the song, like with my guitar fills, sometimes those are one to two takes, but other times ill play over and over till i have something im proud of, same with the keyboard, if i doodle for a couple hours and write something cool ill stick it in there, if i dont come up with anything i dont use it.


in tommy lee's book he writes where a band can play a guitar part and then manipulate it with the computer by choppin it up into 16th notes and all kinds of other stuff, to me thats not authentic, its not comin from inside, the computer is manipulating the sounds.

i dont think axl is going to use the computer in the same way as most bands do.

i think u can have a good marriage of todays technology and yesterdays methods, VR's record for instance is awesome.

i think axl uses the computers for sound effects and weird shit but i think the guitar riffs and overall music will come organically from guys creating.

[D]

look at metallica's ST Anger for example, they wrote a bunch of riffs and let Bob Rock randomly mix em up to make songs, after the cd was complete they didnt even know how to play any of the songs, i mean what kind of shit is that? u know and is it coincidence that its their worst cd ever?

[Mattman]

It's an ironic fact to me that Nirvana came along in 1991 to wipe out the overproduced 80s hair bands (which I like just as much as the flannel set), but it wasn't long before "alternative" music was corporatized, to the extent that now we're right back where we were, but the music isn't as fun.? It's an irony that they still use the label "alternative" to describe some of the most corporate rock music ever.

Funny you mention that, and it's probably the most intelligent thing ever said on this board! Go to the thread I just started and check out what? Steve Albini (Nirvana, Dog Toffee producer) had to say about it!
 

YES!  A compliment from Chris Misfit.  I'm touched to have this rare honour bestowed upon me. 

You know...about songwriting...I think it was Robert "Mutt" Lange, ironically, who said that it's only a good song if you can play it alone on an acoustic guitar or piano, and it's still a good song.  I definitely agree with that.

[Walk]

Robert Lange doesn't know what he's talking about. Most of the greatest songs are examples of "the whole greater than the sum of its parts."