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shelly60
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« on: March 12, 2005, 06:57:42 PM »

http://p087.ezboard.com/fgunsnroses14385thegnrbar.showMessage?topicID=26831.topic

Follow the link to the bar and that will explain it all.
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« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2005, 07:12:05 PM »

PETA does have an agenda in showing the worst videos they get their hands on.  I doubt that video is reflective of the entire fur trade right now.  That is sick though.  I am not a supporter of PETA by any means, mostly I am against them, but that video is inhumane to say the least and is downright disgusting. But please don't add my comments because I do not want to support a PETA operative.
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« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2005, 02:32:54 AM »

I didn't watch the video. I can't handle that sort of thing. I'm vegan and I love animals, but I don't support PETA. They're too extreme for my taste. However, if writing a letter helps in any way, that'll be good.
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« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2005, 07:02:54 AM »

thats absolutely disgusting...i abhor any pain that animals have to suffer...

it may not represent the fur trade as a whole but noone needs real fur anymore because fake fur is readily available...

these images may not truely be associated with Jennifer Lopez...but by showing herself wearing fur will more than likely make many more people wear fur because its trendy or whatever...which will undoubtedly lead to increased cruelty by unscrupulous people trying to cash in...
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« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2005, 09:32:45 AM »

 Huh Huh Huh Huh

Wow that's just a bit extreme isn't it ? Are you vegan, yourself ?
I'm not pro death penalty for human beings so killing a man for killing animals I can't even picture it ...
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« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2005, 11:11:22 AM »


They're like the Michael Moore of animal rights. Some talk, some thought, and then back to business as usual. They never changed anything and they never will because they are lame fuckers who are too busy with being in love with their own popularity. Same goes with the people from Greenpeace.


you know jack shit about Greenpeace...what about the whale hunting ban, the fight against nuclear testing, raising awareness of environmental issues like recycling, sustainable energy sources...just because you dont hear about all the local things that they do doesnt means they are ineffective...
in the last year worldwide http://www.greenpeace.org/international_en/victory/

you arent likely to read it...most people are ignorant anyway and tend to voice their opinion based on a minute proportion of information...
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« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2005, 01:23:48 PM »

The reason I don't support PETA is because they're supposed to be ethical people, yet they limit their ethics to only animals. They treat people who don't believe in what they believe unethically. Throwing red paint on someone for wearing fur is cruel. I don't wear fur and I don't like when other people do, but I'm not gonna walk up to them and throw red paint on them. It's a violent act. And JLo isn't the only celebrity who wears fur. They don't need to single out individuals, because that won't solve the problem. They need to take their claims to the supreme court. Have fashion-fur legally abrogated.
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« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2005, 03:27:41 PM »

I didn't watch the video. I can't handle that sort of thing. I'm vegan and I love animals, but I don't support PETA. They're too extreme for my taste. However, if writing a letter helps in any way, that'll be good.

I agree.   Sometimes I wonder if PETA does more harm than good by being so extreme.  There's even a PETA parody site called: People Eating Tasty Animals.

Remember those ads 'I'd rather be naked than wear fur' from a long time ago?  I think those ads helped more because it made all fashion-conscious people of this world realize they can still be cool w/o fur  Roll Eyes   But that was such a 90's trend.
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« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2005, 03:28:24 PM »

I think PETA people are a step below a cult, sending death threats to people etc

i love and support animals but id almost guarantee that 50 percent of PETA's membership are hypocrites

i guarantee at least half of em own a leather belt or a leather pair of shoes.


People who bitch about this should ask themselves a question

cause if u eat meat or wear leather,suede or anything else made of animals u have no right to bitch or complain, by eating and wearing you are indirectly contributing to the torture of animals

so be sure you are vegetarian and leather,fur and suede free
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« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2005, 03:46:03 PM »

i love and support animals but id almost guarantee that 50 percent of PETA's membership are hypocrites

i guarantee at least half of em own a leather belt or a leather pair of shoes.

you're probably right  hihi

I have plenty of leather shoes, but no fur coats.  Some people could argue that fur coats are necessary if you live in very cold climates (like Eskimos, etc).   But I think the average person does not need one. 

Unfortunately, if we tried to ban them, it will only make them more desirable - like Cuban cigars.  It will become a contraband good.
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« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2005, 03:55:43 PM »

I guess i take the wrong attitude with stuff, i mean i am a vegetarian but its more for health/weight issues

I dont really approve of slaughtering animals, but it happens and i really dont let it bother me because u cant worry bout stuff u cant control

thats one of my main personality attributes

i may come off like an insensitive asshole sometimes but i just dont worry or concern myself with things that have happened since the beginning of time and will continue to happen

stress and worry arent good for you and why worry bout this stuff? worry and stress,protest all u like

u are never gonna change it

bad attitude to have:maybe  realistic: yes
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« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2005, 08:21:52 PM »

Dang Jennifer is hot.
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« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2005, 03:10:47 AM »

Well at least you're in harmony with your position !

But I really don't feel it isn't right to care and value more human life. I really love and care about my cat but there's no way in hell I'd save her before my neighbor I don't even know if the building was on fire ... just a silly example but you get my point.

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« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2005, 09:27:59 AM »

Alright, I watched the video ... that is a bit upsetting,

but the bottom line is that people have the right to choose to wear or eat whatever they want.  Animals are not people, and there is a fundamental difference between the two.  I don't wear furs personally, but that's because I'm a man, I can't afford them, and I would look like an idiot wearing them.  I enjoy eating meat, and I don't plan to stop because an animal had to die so that I could eat.

Before everyone goes off on J-Lo, perhaps you should also consider that Axl Rose has also been reported to wear furs ... just further food for thought.
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« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2005, 10:55:02 AM »

Alright, I watched the video ... that is a bit upsetting,

but the bottom line is that people have the right to choose to wear or eat whatever they want.? Animals are not people, and there is a fundamental difference between the two.? I don't wear furs personally, but that's because I'm a man, I can't afford them, and I would look like an idiot wearing them.? I enjoy eating meat, and I don't plan to stop because an animal had to die so that I could eat.

Before everyone goes off on J-Lo, perhaps you should also consider that Axl Rose has also been reported to wear furs ... just further food for thought.

I agree with you on the principle that everyone has a right to choose what's best for them. I disagree, however, about animals being less important. They may not possess the human form, but that doesn't mean they lack emotion or desire to live. Would you ever consider eating your dog or cat? I wouldn't. That's because most people have an emotional bond with their pets. If you had a pig for a pet, you wouldn't eat it either. It makes it easier to remove yourself when you're not connected to a creature. Six degrees of separation is what it's called.

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« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2005, 11:30:13 AM »

First off most fur is not taken off when the animal is alive. Most fur farms kill the animal first. When the animal is still alive it is MUCH harder to skin the animal due to the fact it has working muscles. If the animal is still alive its muscles will pull on the fur stretching it. They don?t want this.

PETA purposely go out and look for half ass fur farms in poor ass countries that abuse animals just to get these videos.

Its no one else?s fault but them shit whole countries that have no laws for things like this. I hate PETA, because they will never stop people from buying fur in the United States. They should go to these shit whole countries and protest. Or go over there and blow up the farms were this takes place. Fuck, it wouldn?t take much to find out were some of these half ass farms are. Go over there, buy some guns and kill them fuckers. Then blow the damn farm up. After 3 or 4 people would get the hint and look for other ways to make there ones of dollars.

This brings me to another point. The United States should take over this world. No joke. We have to protect ourselves and this planet from the fuck heads over in China, Russia, and them shit whole mid eastern countries. Fuck, I say we drop Hbombs on all of em. It would save a lot of time, our people lives and money. We better use them damn bombs before they expire.
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« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2005, 11:41:04 AM »

I'm sorry to say this, but unless the race of the animal is in danger, i will not stop wearing fur because nothing is as warm and it's soft too.

Anything you eat or wear has downsides to it, plants are ripped off the amazonian forest to produce medecine to cure diseases, animals are gazed so you can eat meat, and some animals are deprived of their fur so you can wear it.

If you want to change our world, you may as well get rid of the human race because it's not likely to change.
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« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2005, 03:50:48 PM »

First off most fur is not taken off when the animal is alive. Most fur farms kill the animal first. When the animal is still alive it is MUCH harder to skin the animal due to the fact it has working muscles. If the animal is still alive its muscles will pull on the fur stretching it. They don?t want this.


as much as what you say is true, the fact is that much of the fur comes from the middle and far east and is sold in western countries...these countries dont have the same regulations that western countries have and they have far more barbaric practices...you may blame these countries for acting the way they do but you forget who pays them the money..want to know what its like?

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/campaign/sport/catsdogs.htm

anyone who thinks its not an issue is fooling themselves

slightly askew of the topic but 300,000 seals are skinned alive every year...

Quote
I'm sorry to say this, but unless the race of the animal is in danger, i will not stop wearing fur because nothing is as warm and it's soft too.

ive never said this to anyone before...but you disgust me...typical arrogant upper class selfishness
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« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2005, 08:13:46 PM »


Quote
I'm sorry to say this, but unless the race of the animal is in danger, i will not stop wearing fur because nothing is as warm and it's soft too.

ive never said this to anyone before...but you disgust me...typical arrogant upper class selfishness
Quote

 rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

Yeah, right, like all women who like fashion..Didn't know fashion was upper class...
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« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2005, 08:15:00 PM »

I'm sorry to say this, but unless the race of the animal is in danger, i will not stop wearing fur because nothing is as warm and it's soft too.


Get well soon, silver spoon.

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I wear mongolia sheep ..hardly a luxury, but sooooft, although it's a fur.

Do any of you two wear suede ?
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« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2005, 10:15:04 AM »

PETA are a bunch of extremist freaks
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« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2005, 10:18:26 AM »

"slightly askew of the topic but 300,000 seals are skinned alive every year..."

That is true and very sad in my eyes. But do you know how many women and children are murdered every day in third world countries. Probly more than 300,000 in one year. Do you know how many children die in third world countries because of hunger and fucked up dieses?

This world is fucked up. Human rights, and PETA people are a good thing. But a lot of the time they (PETA) take it to far. As much as I hate to say this it is true. They are freaks about things such as hunting and how animals are killed in the USA (which was bad back in the 60s-70s-80s, but they changed all the laws now). Im sure there are thousands of animals who get eaten alive every day by other animals. Its called the chain of life. A seal gets chased down by a polar bear and eating alive, a bear kills a deer and eats it alive. We live in a cruel world; animals do what they have too, to stay alive. Even the animals who walk on two legs. ?
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« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2005, 03:31:51 PM »

"slightly askew of the topic but 300,000 seals are skinned alive every year..."

That is true and very sad in my eyes. But do you know how many women and children are murdered every day in third world countries. Probly more than 300,000 in one year. Do you know how many children die in third world countries because of hunger and fucked up dieses?

This world is fucked up. Human rights, and PETA people are a good thing. But a lot of the time they (PETA) take it to far. As much as I hate to say this it is true. They are freaks about things such as hunting and how animals are killed in the USA (which was bad back in the 60s-70s-80s, but they changed all the laws now). Im sure there are thousands of animals who get eaten alive every day by other animals. Its called the chain of life. A seal gets chased down by a polar bear and eating alive, a bear kills a deer and eats it alive. We live in a cruel world; animals do what they have too, to stay alive. Even the animals who walk on two legs. 



are you saying that i shouldnt be concerned with animals being skinned because there are hundreds of thousands of children dying of disease every year? ...on the contrary...i am concerned about both

i have no love of PETA from what I have heard about them...i would rather be shown the truth than be manipulated by an agenda which obviously they have...yes we live in a cruel world and yes animals have to do what they have to do to stay alive...but wearing a fur because they think it looks good strikes me as having a lack of concern about the practices that are being used in foreign countries to satisfy the demand of these pretentious snobs (i.e. France)...animals being skinned alive is just savage...there is no need for it...we are in the technology age...and we dont need such garments because non-natural substitutes are available...there is a difference, animals kill other animals to survive, we dont need to kill animals in any way that increases their suffering, unless you are put in a position where you have to do it...


I wear mongolia sheep ..hardly a luxury, but sooooft, although it's a fur.

Do any of you two wear suede ?

not me


Yeah, right, like all women who like fashion..Didn't know fashion was upper class...

i know plenty of women who love fashion, and they dont wear fur, skin leather nor use products tested on animals...i find most women are animal lovers...and besides French designers are pretentious pricks who tend to stick anything on a models head and call it fashion...
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« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2005, 03:51:39 PM »


Quote

i know plenty of women who love fashion, and they dont wear fur, skin leather nor use products tested on animals...i find most women are animal lovers...and besides French designers are pretentious pricks who tend to stick anything on a models head and call it fashion...
Quote

Designers are mostly italian, american, belgies and english nowadays. 

Why is it that to you, anyone who seems to enjoy a little bit of luxury is " pretentious" ? aside from fur i mean. It seems in your vocab that you have issues regarding the riches ?
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« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2005, 05:46:24 PM »


Why is it that to you, anyone who seems to enjoy a little bit of luxury is " pretentious" ? aside from fur i mean. It seems in your vocab that you have issues regarding the riches ?

i have no issues with someone being successful, i prefer people who believe they are equal with all others, anyone else who thinks theyre above me i will ignore or criticise them for their faults...there is no other reason to wear fur other than to improve your social standing with others of the same ilk
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« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2005, 05:30:35 AM »

You're judging people on what they're wearing ? I own a leather jacket and doc martens pair of shoes I don't think it makes me look like a pretentious prick ... what's the difference between leather and fur ? Not much if you asked me.  Roll Eyes
By the way Axl wore and guess still wear fur ... my grand mother used to wear fur and I can tell you she was everything but pretentious or interested in fashion ....  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2005, 02:58:02 PM »

You're judging people on what they're wearing ? I own a leather jacket and doc martens pair of shoes I don't think it makes me look like a pretentious prick ... what's the difference between leather and fur ? Not much if you asked me.  Roll Eyes
By the way Axl wore and guess still wear fur ... my grand mother used to wear fur and I can tell you she was everything but pretentious or interested in fashion ....  Roll Eyes


the leather industry is far more regulated and very little suffering of animals occur ...the fur industry is far from being regulated and suffering occurs far more often...you wear fur, you encourage the unscrupulous to make the suffering of the animals worse...do you like animals suffering? i dont, so imo its pretentious to wear fur

your grandmother lived in a different age...an age of ivory traders,  racism, hunting down species for fun among many other things...

btw im not a vegetarian, i just dont like animals suffering...
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« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2005, 04:20:28 AM »

I don't actually agree w/ your vision of the fur trade vs leather trade ... and fur is not only vison ... it can be rabbits or foxes or whatever ...
And about my grand-mother living in the dark age well I guess we're not done yet with racism or even Ivory trade ...  Roll Eyes
I just think condemning and juging people on what they wear or what they eat is pretty narrow-minded ...
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« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2005, 03:48:28 PM »

I don't actually agree w/ your vision of the fur trade vs leather trade ... and fur is not only vison ... it can be rabbits or foxes or whatever ...
And about my grand-mother living in the dark age well I guess we're not done yet with racism or even Ivory trade ...  Roll Eyes
I just think condemning and juging people on what they wear or what they eat is pretty narrow-minded ...

for the majority racism is now unacceptable, and the ivory trade is nothing like it used to be...

funny i was thinking someone who wears fur for no reason was narrow minded

and you didnt answer my question either, do you like animals suffering?
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« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2005, 05:11:20 AM »

Well I don't wear fur ... I don't like having hair sticking up my back ... I just don't condemn people for wearing them ... see the difference here ? People can wear whatever they feel like ! I do wear from time to time a leather jacket and leather shoes and a leather belt ...  Shocked - reminder : leather is the skin of a dead animal without hair ...
Do I like to see animals suffer ? No, when one of my cats died I was really in grief ... but I do eat meat and I know animals are to be killed for that. I have the feeling it's really politically correct to condemn people for wearing fur and I just think this is a total hypocrisy.

And about racism being acceptable when my grand mother was still alive, she only died  10 years ago so I don't think the world situation changed that much since then.
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« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2005, 07:13:47 AM »

i am far from being a politically correct person...i dont condemn others for wearing leather or fur where the animal has been humanely killed, if it has been inhumanely killed then i do condemn them...and the fur trade isnt a regulated industry...until that industry is regulated to a degree where 99%+ of the animals are killed humanely then i condemn people for wearing fur...and i only eat meat from this country where i know its regulated so i believe that isnt hypocrisy on my part

i disagree with your "people can wear what they feel like" statement...where does your statement stop? sheep? dogs? elephants? endangered animals? humans? and why does it stop there?
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« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2005, 01:55:00 PM »

"i dont condemn others for wearing leather or fur where the animal has been humanely killed, if it has been inhumanely killed then i do condemn them"

You see we agree ...  hihi yes
But that's not what you said previously ... you were saying people wearing fur where pretentious or something like than ... too lazy to re-read the whole thread.

"i disagree with your "people can wear what they feel like" statement...where does your statement stop? sheep? dogs? elephants? endangered animals? humans? and why does it stop there?"

I know you're clever than that ! When I was answering to the thread this morning I was like ... "Do I have to precise that I'm not including illegal stuff like tiger or human skin ?".
I really don't want to have an argument over an issue I'm not even that interested in. So I guess I won't be answering here. I'm not pro-fur or whatever ... If I started to post in here it was because of some extremist views on death penalty for killing animals ...  Undecided
And futhermore I don't want to start a "fight" with you because until now I kinda liked your posts !  yes
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« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2005, 05:18:23 PM »

noooo, there is no fight involved...i just like to challenge people opinions and for others to challenge mine...it makes people think more about these issues...if you or I have learned something about yourself then to me thats good...cheers for the challenge Smiley
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