UK Election Thread

[Axls Locomotive]

Scrapping council tax and replacing it with a local income tax which will lead to retired millionares paying less tax than a student nurse on ?18,000 a year!

yea thats quite dumb isnt it...what if everyone decided to retire?...theyd have to dclare bankrupcy

[Is he struggling?]

No, it wouldn't change but it's a protest vote, it's why people vote Green and BNP, not to get a government but as a protest vote, I probably won't vote for them but I thought about it.

im voting BNP and NO....its not a protest vote. Something needs to change........if you live where i live then you would see what i mean!!   

Fair enough, I have no problem with that, all I mean is that you're not going to  bring about a new government voting BNP, and the people that scare me are not the BNP but the real fascists are the people trying to ban them from running as a party.

I hate the BNP's policies and views and the way they whip up fear and prejudice as an alternative towards outsiders rather than offering constructive solutions to the problems many depressed working class areas (where much of thier support comes from) face. I also despise the PC mafia who have colonised Briatain's instituions and have tried to smother all non - 'progressive' (also a heavily loaded term) opinions. The best way to silence the groups like the BNP in a democracy is to let them have a platform, and then blow them offit through proper discussion and critique, rahter than name-calling.

Incidnetally, has anyone actually seen the BNP's manifesto? Reintroducing national service?! An assault rifle for every household?! That'll help solve the violent crime problem (though immigrants could find this useful when the BNP sned thier thugs to intimidate and/or deport them).

[axl_rose_700]

No, it wouldn't change but it's a protest vote, it's why people vote Green and BNP, not to get a government but as a protest vote, I probably won't vote for them but I thought about it.

im voting BNP and NO....its not a protest vote. Something needs to change........if you live where i live then you would see what i mean!!? ?

Fair enough, I have no problem with that, all I mean is that you're not going to? bring about a new government voting BNP, and the people that scare me are not the BNP but the real fascists are the people trying to ban them from running as a party.

I hate the BNP's policies and views and the way they whip up fear and prejudice as an alternative towards outsiders rather than offering constructive solutions to the problems many depressed working class areas (where much of thier support comes from) face. I also despise the PC mafia who have colonised Briatain's instituions and have tried to smother all non - 'progressive' (also a heavily loaded term) opinions. The best way to silence the groups like the BNP in a democracy is to let them have a platform, and then blow them offit through proper discussion and critique, rahter than name-calling.

Incidnetally, has anyone actually seen the BNP's manifesto? Reintroducing national service?! An assault rifle for every household?! That'll help solve the violent crime problem (though immigrants could find this useful when the BNP sned thier thugs to intimidate and/or deport them).

That's exactly right, I had a big arguement with my old History teacher and a commie in my group, they were saying they shouldn't have a voice but I said that they should and you should discuss things with them to make them look stupid, which wouldn't be hard!

The assault rifle is for ex-military homes not every home.

They also want to scrap income tax and put a massive increase on VAT. So no-one can call them Nazi's cos there's nothing socialist about that!

[2NaFish]

errm, National Socialist German Worker's Party = Nazi.

Hitler was sent by the german government to infiltrate the Nazi's as they were scared they were too socialist.

The red base of the Nazi flag is to represent the party's socialist base.




Socialism is not directly related to the level of taxation. The BNP can very easily be described as nazis and fascists.

But morons pretty much sums them up best.

[Izzy]

Disappointing election - status quo was maintained no one gained or lost in a serious way.

I liked the way Mr Blair announced this morning he was adopting all the Tory policies

Congrats to the Northern Ireland lot for finally finishing off the peace process - slow clap for them i feel

A government with 36% of the vote, i love the way we claim to be a democracy and yet the government isn't even backed by a majority of the population....

Our system sucks

[Is he struggling?]

Disappointing election - status quo was maintained no one gained or lost in a serious way.

I think we will see the political centre of gravity shift leftward - at least amongst  the elites.

Thanks to the lower than expected majority, Blair will need to appease his (old labourite) backbenchers and may have to abandon some of the more 'new' labour policies, such as public service reform. He will also have to drop his king like command of the civil sercvice, his party and parliament, as I mentioned earlier (huzzah!)

Mr Blair will also have to begin the process of handing over the reins to Mr Brown soon. With their 'co-headlining' campaign and the cabinet resuffle, there appears to be a tacit acceptance that Brown is the inevitable sucessor. As chancellor, Gordon Brown's only real legacy has been the mushrooming of public sector central control and spending centralised control and the beginnings of a kind of wealth redistribution (Tax credits for the poor, 'stealth taxes for the rest of us). Having already broken his 'golden rule' by borrowing to cover deficits, it will be interesting to how he will sort out the financial mess he is creating in the years to come, and I reckon his instincts lean toward higher taxing and spending.

Labour also lost quite a lot of votes to Britain's new kids on the left -the lib dems, especially in northern cities. (And also just enough in London marginals to hand victory to the Tories). Under Charles Kennedy, the Liberals have appealed to the more collectivist, humanitarian instincts of the British public - in both the middle and working classes, with their policies on defence, pensions, tax etc, and are akin to Old Labour stripped of its rampant class hatred. Labour (under both Blair and Brown) will surely attempt to regain voters from the left side in the years to come, especially if it wants to boost its pathetic (for a governing party) 36% vote share.

This gives the Tories a great chance to regain the centre and centre-right vote that New Labour spectacularly siezed in 1997. The next leader should deliver a positive, generous alternative vision on the economy, public services, pensions, transport etc - issues that matter to the whole nation. Thier past campaign has been too negative and focussed on small fry 'dog whistle' issues such as immigration and 'travellers' which were of some use in marginal seats but not much elsewhere (note that their vote share was increased by less than 1%). Still, this is the first election since 1983 where they have made serious gains - I think they have a good chacne of wining the next one if they can pick up votes from the disillusioned and the soon to be dissilusion voters of the centre-right (especailly after Brother Gordon takes charge).

A government with 36% of the vote, i love the way we claim to be a democracy and yet the government isn't even backed by a majority of the population....

Our system sucks

IT is also very significant that the two main parties only gained 69% of the vote between them, which I reckon will herald another change in competition between British political parties. When 2 party support sank in the early twenties, the end result was Labour usrping the liberals as a major party. After it dipped again in 1974, British politics became more polarised as the the economic life of the country slowly unravelled. The outcome was Mrs Thatcher leading the Conservatives to power on a free market agenda as Labour was pulled ever more leftward by the unions and the millitants in its ranks.

The relatively high proportion of people voting for 'minor' parites shows that there is a lot of disillusion with the main parties agendas (which lets face it, were broadly similar on the major issues). Perhaps if the Conservatives can offer bold new ideas on these mjor issues then it can attract a lot of support from fringe party and lib dem voters (as well as recliaming support lost to new labour). For better or worse, Mrs Thatcher was very big on visions and on ideas, and led the Cons to an 18yr rule by picking up the the discontent felt by voters in tjhe 70's and offering them a positive alternative to the trouble and strife of Labour rule.

More broadly speaking, I think a PR-based electoral system could be the only way to get the people more involved in British democracy, just for the sake of making them feel that thier participation matters. It would also prevent the sad spectacle of an over-mighty 'elected dictatorship' ruling against the will of the people from occuring again.

Don't forget though, even with 'pure' PR systems, it is extremely rare to find governments that were backed by over 50% of the voting population (based on first preference votes).

Congrats to the Northern Ireland lot for finally finishing off the peace process - slow clap for them i feel

It's a real tragedy that the forces ofoderation have lost out in Northern IrReland. I guess that ordinary unionists felt that the peace process was too Sinn Fein/IRA friendly(i.e. the realese of paramilitaries from prison, appointing MCGuinness to a senior cabinet post, the failure to stop the IRA from its criminal operations whilst dismantiling the Royal Ulster Constabulry...). Still, voting for the DUP will only pour petrol on the fire - Ian Paisley is a dangerous mix of demogogue and fire and brimstone preacher. This is the man who deployed a band of hecklers to harrass Pope John Paul II on a visit to the UK, so I don't think there is much hope of reconciliation. 

[mrlee]

sadly i finally found out  turd ass labour and tony blair got in again. Another 5 years of retards ruling our country. Why do people vote for assholes? Why not just over throw them.

[nesquick]

Tonny Blair is a good prime minister for England, point of vue of a french guy. 
Now I hope Nicolas Sarkozy will be the next french president in 2007, you'll see, He is fantastic. ?

[axl_rose_700]

errm, National Socialist German Worker's Party = Nazi.

Hitler was sent by the german government to infiltrate the Nazi's as they were scared they were too socialist.

The red base of the Nazi flag is to represent the party's socialist base.




Socialism is not directly related to the level of taxation. The BNP can very easily be described as nazis and fascists.

But morons pretty much sums them up best.

I know what a nazi is, you can call em fascists but not nazis cos i dont see anything socialist from them myself. putting vat up hugely gets rid of sliding scale tax and means everyone pays as much as eceryone else, therefore wholey un-socialist

[Gunnerguy]

errm, National Socialist German Worker's Party = Nazi.

Hitler was sent by the german government to infiltrate the Nazi's as they were scared they were too socialist.

The red base of the Nazi flag is to represent the party's socialist base.




Socialism is not directly related to the level of taxation. The BNP can very easily be described as nazis and fascists.

But morons pretty much sums them up best.

I know what a nazi is, you can call em fascists but not nazis cos i dont see anything socialist from them myself. putting vat up hugely gets rid of sliding scale tax and means everyone pays as much as eceryone else, therefore wholey un-socialist

come on dude the nazis weren't the least bit socialist they just stuck it in the title cause it sounded good to your standard bog level german who was barely making ends meat at the time ........ they were hardly gonna call themselves "The National Satanic German Wankers Party" or somethin

[2NaFish]

i can't be bothered getting in to this, but the nazi's had and maintained socialist leanings.

[Axls Locomotive]

Tonny Blair is a good prime minister for England, point of vue of a french guy. 
Now I hope Nicolas Sarkozy will be the next french president in 2007, you'll see, He is fantastic.  

uhhh its the prime minister of the UK, not England...1 in 5 MP's are NOT english...

[Izzy]

i can't be bothered getting in to this, but the nazi's had and maintained socialist leanings.

Oh, i've just finished my 10th book on the subject..in the last month....damn exams, lets see how much i remember off the top of my head,

The 'Socialist' part was really just to make them stand out and was part of their manifesto even before Hitler took over, Hitler had been sent by the army to investigate them in 1919 with the army believing they were a left wing party due to their name the 'National Socialist German Workers Party' (NSDAP) - he most certainly was not a socialist and choose to distance himself from a significant left wing element of the party led by Gregor Strasser. The Nazi's paramilitary organisation, the SA, was largely working class and left wing too. To cut a long story short - Strasser became increasingly dissilluisoioned with Hitler, Hitler was busy winning the support of industry who were unhappy with any left wing element of the party, Hitler needed their support to get into governement - Strasser then quit.

Fast forward to June 1934, Hitler has been in power for a year and the left wing of his party have been causing problems and increasingly frustrated with Hitler's 'moderate' position. Hitler wishes to secure his position and become President upon the then Presidents death, to do this he needed the support of the 'elites'. The Army is unhappy with the SA, industry is unhappy with the SA, so what does Hitler do - he asks the army for trucks and guns - drives off to the SA's headquarters and the SS shoot the the leadership and Hitler's best friend Ernst Rohm. They also kill 5,000 others as well as our old friend Strasser.

The left wing of the party is effectively dead and the rest of the crazy lot behind Hitler think about mischief that doesn't involve class structure and social mobility....so while they had some left wing leanings, it was effectively killed off (quite literally) early on and wasn't really maintained. But the Nazi's weren't really left or right wing, they were pretty much unique - after all is racial world domination a left or right wing view?

Back to the notes...

[axl_rose_700]

The nazis did actually have some socialist policies although they scrapped some of them to appeal more to the racist nutters in germany

[SLCPUNK]

I wonder if this will go 90 pages like the U.S. election thread did?? ?

I doubt it because Tony is not as polarizing a leader as is George. Plus, Tony tries to court the political center whereas George is mainly interested in placating the extreme right of the Republican party.

Really?? I dont remember when the last bone was that Bush gave to his right wing base.? He seems to be acting against them if you ask me.?

How so?

[GnRNightrain]

I wonder if this will go 90 pages like the U.S. election thread did?? ?

I doubt it because Tony is not as polarizing a leader as is George. Plus, Tony tries to court the political center whereas George is mainly interested in placating the extreme right of the Republican party.

Really?? I dont remember when the last bone was that Bush gave to his right wing base.? He seems to be acting against them if you ask me.?

How so?

He refuses to do anything about the border, and he has spent more money on government programs than most recent Presidents.  In addition, he refuses to give any real support to his judicial nominees.

[SLCPUNK]

I wonder if this will go 90 pages like the U.S. election thread did?? ?

I doubt it because Tony is not as polarizing a leader as is George. Plus, Tony tries to court the political center whereas George is mainly interested in placating the extreme right of the Republican party.

Really?? I dont remember when the last bone was that Bush gave to his right wing base.? He seems to be acting against them if you ask me.?

How so?

He refuses to do anything about the border, and he has spent more money on government programs than most recent Presidents.? In addition, he refuses to give any real support to his judicial nominees.

LOL, yea but that PALES in comparison to what he does give to his base. Give me a break.

[Rain]

Tonny Blair is a good prime minister for England, point of vue of a french guy.?
Now I hope Nicolas Sarkozy will be the next french president in 2007, you'll see, He is fantastic. ?

God forbid 

He's the biggest hypocrite there can be in politics ! 

[nesquick]

Tonny Blair is a good prime minister for England, point of vue of a french guy.?
Now I hope Nicolas Sarkozy will be the next french president in 2007, you'll see, He is fantastic. ?

God forbid?

He's the biggest hypocrite there can be in politics !?

I don't think so. My point of vue is that he is the most brillant and intelligent politician nowadays in France,  he may seem hypocrit and arrogant when you watch him on TV but he is not. I think the guy knows he is the best (or among the best) and he plays with that strenght. that's it. It's neither beeing hypocrit nor arrogant, it's just knowing you are competent. He is also extremely energetic. Our country needs that. To tell you the truth, I'm fed-up with all these old and static politicians, it's time to move on. We need some fresh and young persons. He is the right guy at the right place at the right moment. Well...I hope.

[Rain]

I have to acknowledge that the guy is always on the move ... he seems to be dynamic ... but what are his achievements ? Le conseil du culte musulman (with extremists all over the place ?) ? When he left the government crimes were higher than when he entered ... and what about prostitution ?
To sum up Sarkozy's program : "me me me me blablabla" ! The guy is a total joke ... and I pray god that french people will be wiser than in 2002 ... 
Last post in the topic because here I guess people were discussing UK elections not Mr "When I shave in the morning I'm already picturing myself as president".