Do Americans Hate Themselves?

[nesquick]

It's not like this anti-Americanism is new

+ 1. Very true. In Europe Anti-Americanism is a national sport. It's a shame because you save us twice from the chaos. people have a short memory.

[SLCPUNK]

That's a separate issue, but the fact of the matter is, this view of America has been around a lot longer than just when Bush did his thing.? It's not like this anti-Americanism is new.

I know from talking to a lot of middle easterners (since my dad's job directly relates to working with people all over the world) that a big part of their view of America comes from our movies.? ?That's the simple truth of the matter.

So you can cling to that, but deny that maybe there is a newfound view of America being violent because of our military actions abroad?

You can't have it both ways.

You say America's precieved violent personality is liberal Hollywoods fault; I offer another avenue.

Your perspective can not be the only truth, nor can mine, but I ain't gonna read you saying it's the evil libs at it again. Not when our government is dropping bombs.

[loretian]

Your perspective can not be the only truth, nor can mine, but I ain't gonna read you saying it's the evil libs at it again. Not when our government is dropping bombs.

Well, ya did read it, and I'm all for dropping bombs on tyrants like Saddam. 

[loretian]

It's not like this anti-Americanism is new

+ 1. Very true. In Europe Anti-Americanism is a national sport. It's a shame because you save us twice from the chaos. people have a short memory.

It seems really unfortunate to me.   That's the impression I got from the time I spent in Europe.  Most of the people were actually very nice to me, personally, though.

[nesquick]

sure they are very nice. you were a tourist so you were $$ for them. don't forget it. You'll always be welcome as soon as you are a tourist and you bring $$. But don't be naive, there is a strong anti-americanism in the public opinion, especially since the gulf war 2 as I suppose there might be a strong hostility towards french people in the US and it's also very bad. However, I learnt that the most virulent anti-americanism? comes from Germany. But when you're a tourist all is different, there are things you can't see because you are just in holidays. All is different. Last year I heard someone at school telling me "we must kill all the americans". I was like "WTF?". He was very serious. He was a very well educated person, not retarded, very clever and intelligent but... it's like if he didn't measure the impact of what he said. it wasn't shocking for him, it was natural when he said "we must kill all the americans".?
For me America and Americans are my partners, not my enemies. later, i'd like to create an european/american association.

[SLCPUNK]

Your perspective can not be the only truth, nor can mine, but I ain't gonna read you saying it's the evil libs at it again. Not when our government is dropping bombs.

Well, ya did read it, and I'm all for dropping bombs on tyrants like Saddam.?

Sorry. In my book you can't approve of real life brutality and then cry about liberal hollywood types making films. Makes you a hypocrite, or in denial, or both.

[loretian]

Sorry. In my book you can't approve of real life brutality and then cry about liberal hollywood types making films. Makes you a hypocrite, or in denial, or both.

I approve of the use of violence in specific cases.  I don't see how you can lump all "real life brutality" together - obviously, there are difference cases and different variables.  I strongly doubt you disapprove of all uses of violence, and if you do, then....  I don't know what to tell you.   

[jarmo]

It's not like this anti-Americanism is new

+ 1. Very true. In Europe Anti-Americanism is a national sport. It's a shame because you save us twice from the chaos. people have a short memory.

It's easier to say "I hate USA" than "I hate the foreign policy and the politics of the USA".

Even some Americans themselves don't like what their president is doing and they get labeled "non-patriotic".


You seem to forget the reason why there's people who don't like the USA. It's got nothing to do with WW2. Things have changed since then. Look back at the time of the Vietnam war and compare to today.




/jarmo

[the dirt]

It's easier to say "I hate USA" than "I hate the foreign policy and the politics of the USA".

/jarmo

It boils down to the same thing, though, right?

[N.I.B]

Everybody hates america for one reason:fear. Canadians fea the Americans would counquer them, Europeans fear the Americans because America a war-hungry machine that drags everybody else into it and american people fear america because they're afraid that their government will crumble and everybody will be screwed

[GnRNightrain]

A lot of other non-Americans seem to get their ideas and viewpoints on American culture based on American cinema.? I can't blame them, it's our number one export.

You have to keep in mind - most, if not all, of mainstream American cinema comes from liberals in Hollywood, and they do not represent mainstream America.? They represent the elitist of the elite of the liberals out there, which is more extreme than even your average liberal American.? The obsession with violence and sex all stems from that, even though much of America is nothing like that.

Remember when reading something like this.... the source.

This is from a right wing thinker who uses catch words like "elitist" and "liberal" as dirty words (propaganda speak) to describe Hollywood.

Do they not describe Hollywood?  They are not necessarily dirty words, it is just describing what it is.  You then come to the conclusion that are being used in a dirty way. 

You have to look no further than your dickhead in the whitehouse to see who used VIOLENCE FIRST.

What a stupid fucknig statement.  You attack Loretians characterization of those in Hollywood, then you do the same name calling in regards to this adiministration.

Consider the source.

[journey]

Read this carefully (if you want), it's just something I'm wondering about ---

If Hollywood movies tell the stories Americans want to hear there seems to be some evidence pointing towards my question. In that respect there's at least three different kinds of movies:

first: a plain and simple American fighting evil and corrupt (although fellow American) police, secret service, military, lawyers, lobbyists and government agencies. Examples: the first two parts of Rambo, most of X Files, I guess many others will come to your mind

second: an American becoming a terrorist and turning on the (apparently) even more evil and corrupt American government. Example: Red Alert (doesn't Tommy Lee Jones play a Vietnam vet?), some of the X Files as well

third (and most disturbingly): this whole genre of movies set in they near future where the Land of the Free has come under a post-apocalyptic totalitarian violent regime. Examples: the original Rollerball, Deathrace, Escape from LA I think it's called, even Barb Wire.

Another hint: lots of "disaster" movies (Independence Day for example) or books like The Stand have these scenes of looting mobs and mass panic and, in general, the collapse of order and the government acting violently, lying, covering up, hiding, dissolving.

So --- my question: if all of that actually portrays the way Americans feel, do they hate themselves? How come they don't seem to trust their great system which they put up themselves and which is still the first and most successful democracy in the world?

Sometimes art imitates life, sometimes it doesn't. Hollywood is a very poor depiction of the USA.

Most Americans are good, hard working people. I wish other countries could see that the common American person doesn't have any control over the White House and decisions regarding war. The president makes those choices.

As far as Americans hating themselves, I think there may be a collective frustration, but not hatred.  The system isn't that great. Medicare is lousy. Job wages are low, etc.. Things could be better.

[SLCPUNK]

Read this carefully (if you want), it's just something I'm wondering about ---

If Hollywood movies tell the stories Americans want to hear there seems to be some evidence pointing towards my question. In that respect there's at least three different kinds of movies:

first: a plain and simple American fighting evil and corrupt (although fellow American) police, secret service, military, lawyers, lobbyists and government agencies. Examples: the first two parts of Rambo, most of X Files, I guess many others will come to your mind

second: an American becoming a terrorist and turning on the (apparently) even more evil and corrupt American government. Example: Red Alert (doesn't Tommy Lee Jones play a Vietnam vet?), some of the X Files as well

third (and most disturbingly): this whole genre of movies set in they near future where the Land of the Free has come under a post-apocalyptic totalitarian violent regime. Examples: the original Rollerball, Deathrace, Escape from LA I think it's called, even Barb Wire.

Another hint: lots of "disaster" movies (Independence Day for example) or books like The Stand have these scenes of looting mobs and mass panic and, in general, the collapse of order and the government acting violently, lying, covering up, hiding, dissolving.

So --- my question: if all of that actually portrays the way Americans feel, do they hate themselves? How come they don't seem to trust their great system which they put up themselves and which is still the first and most successful democracy in the world?

Sometimes art imitates life, sometimes it doesn't. Hollywood is a very poor depiction of the USA.

Most Americans are good, hard working people. I wish other countries could see that the common American person doesn't have any control over the White House and decisions regarding war. The president makes those choices.

As far as Americans hating themselves, I think there may be a collective frustration, but not hatred.? The system isn't that great. Medicare is lousy. Job wages are low, etc.. Things could be better.

This post made the most sense thus far.

Most Americans are hard working good people. Most are scared and stretched financially I think. It keeps them from digging too deep for questions, since they don't have time, or more personal issues to attend to.

America is young and heading in a bad direction for the general public. Hopefully it will become what it once was, that is, for the people.

[SLCPUNK]

Do they not describe Hollywood?  They are not necessarily dirty words, it is just describing what it is.  You then come to the conclusion that are being used in a dirty way. 

These are foxspeak words you guys throw out when you don't like somebody. It's become common to hear all the right-wing talking heads use these terms. It is used to draw in the average guy...especially hearing words like "elitist".

Boring drone talk....and no I don't think it describes Hollywood.

Hannity, O'reilly, Rush etc hate Hollywood because there are actors you use who they are to speak out (against what they believe). However you never hear the right wing ditto heads complaining when Mel Gibson or Ron Silver use there Hollywood influence to draw attention to their (right wing) political agenda. Nor do any of you guys complain or call them "elitists".

You watch these shows, hear what they say and repeat it. Nothing more, nothing less. Ignoring the hypocritical nature of your entire "argument".

What a stupid fucknig statement.  You attack Loretians characterization of those in Hollywood, then you do the same name calling in regards to this adiministration.

I'm just giving tit for tat.

If he is going to try to make this an "evil Liberal" issue, which he started, it was his can of worms he opened, then he should look at both sides. Invading a country that did not attack us (yea 50% believe it was ok, but 50% don't , plus the rest of the world), right wing backing of the NRA, pro-death penalty, all may contribute to why people think we are a violent nation.

Maybe you'd be more at home on the Sean Hannity boards.

[Nightfall]

In Europe Anti-Americanism is a national sport. It's a shame because you save us twice from the chaos. people have a short memory.

You seem to forget the reason why there's people who don't like the USA. It's got nothing to do with WW2.


/jarmo

Ok the reason why I "hate" the USA is because they like to change the past in their advantage...changing facts and such..The only reason why they "saved" us in WWII is because their economy was on it's ass and they needed a boost in that (read Marshall Plan), so "helping" out the europeans at a moment that the enemy was at his weakest was only in their own interest.
Where it really only the Americans who saved us? I remember more countries helping us out....

Also all this bad blood against Americans (for me personally) is set by your current president, by saying (when starting the war against iraq) that if you're not with us you're against us....that isn't wise to say...but then again...hmmm...i'm gonna keep that comment to myself

It's easy to project a black/white opinion..but if you (read: americans) just think about it you must know that the ppl don't think about all of the American citizens that way.

[pilferk]

In Europe Anti-Americanism is a national sport. It's a shame because you save us twice from the chaos. people have a short memory.

You seem to forget the reason why there's people who don't like the USA. It's got nothing to do with WW2.


/jarmo

Ok the reason why I "hate" the USA is because they like to change the past in their advantage...changing facts and such..The only reason why they "saved" us in WWII is because their economy was on it's ass and they needed a boost in that (read Marshall Plan), so "helping" out the europeans at a moment that the enemy was at his weakest was only in their own interest.
Where it really only the Americans who saved us? I remember more countries helping us out....

Also all this bad blood against Americans (for me personally) is set by your current president, by saying (when starting the war against iraq) that if you're not with us you're against us....that isn't wise to say...but then again...hmmm...i'm gonna keep that comment to myself

It's easy to project a black/white opinion..but if you (read: americans) just think about it you must know that the ppl don't think about all of the American citizens that way.

One point:  The US did not "help out" in WWII because our economy was on it's ass.

Pearl Harbor is the reason the US "helped out" in WWII.

At least, if by "helped out", you mean with our military going over to actually fight...which is when the actual tide of the war changed.

If you mean "helped out", in the sense that we sold you goods, weapons, and other things at deeply discounted prices (specifically NOT profiteering, in many cases) PRIOR to Pearl Harbor...I'd like to think that was a "we'll scratch your back, you scratch ours" situation.  We WERE in rough shape....largely because of the market crash which was facilitated, in many ways, by the uncertainty and turmoil in Europe.  But the Europeans were also having a rough time getting supplies, since the German Blitzkrieg was doing a number on Englands manufacturing capability and France was, largely, in ruins already.  The "deal" with the US allowed the Europeans to resupply from a "safe" industrialized manufacturing nation...and allowed the US to stimulate, albiet minorly, it's crushed economy.

In reality, most of the economic stimulus that we recieved from WWII was largely attributed to the efficiency of our manufacturing capabilities.  Lines that were, after the war, used to make cars, kitchen appliances, etc had been "fine tuned" during the war to ensure that weapons, mess kits, etc were churned out quickly, with very high quality, to supply the troops.  Sure, we also reaped some other economic benefits by being able to resupply a war torn Europe, once the fighting stopped.  We also lent France and England vast amounts of money....money that, to this day, we have never demanded be repaid.  Now, much of that money came back to the US, indirectly, in goods and services...which, I'm sure, was a motivating factor is lending it in the first place, but still....

[Skeletor]

At least, if by "helped out", you mean with our military going over to actually fight...which is when the actual tide of the war changed.

The tide of the war changed when the Germans lost at Stalingrad.

[pilferk]

At least, if by "helped out", you mean with our military going over to actually fight...which is when the actual tide of the war changed.

The tide of the war changed when the Germans lost at Stalingrad.

True, though you'll note that the offensive to capture Stalingrad occurred in June of 1942 and lasted into 1943, if I remember correctly....More than 6 months after Pearl Harbor, and well after the US had mobilized troops to fight in Europe.? This lead to Germany having to fight a much more vigorous 2 front war than they would have otherwise had to, had the US not been involved.? It caused less resources, and an even thiner supply line, to the troops who were sent to Stalingrad.? Combine that with Hitler's classic blunder of splitting up Army Company South into 2 components (one to capture the oil fields in Caucasas and one sent to Stalingrad) and you have a weakend German army heading right into the lions mouth of a very determined Soviet Army (who, while vastly underequipped, were, perhaps, the toughest "soldiers" of their day).?

Thus, why I said the US's entry into the war was when the tide turned.? The Battle of Stalingrad was, I think, the moment the Allies completely turned the corner.? It reinvigorated moral and blunted the German Army beyond any real chance of recovery.

[Skeletor]

a very determined Soviet Army (who, while vastly underequipped, were, perhaps, the toughest "soldiers" of their day).?

Agreed with everything but this, I've always been under the impression that the Russians sucked in every aspect except their huge numbers, and that their method of winning was just sending hordes of troops at the enemy. Perhaps the image is partly result of the wars against Finland during WW2, where nearly ten Russians died for each fallen Finn. Also, when you look at total losses for USSR during WW2, it's hard to think of the soldiers as very tough...

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Hollywood is not a good portrayal of Americans. Unfortunately, most outside the USA get their info on our culture from movies.

We don`t all agree with our President`s decisions. He won re-election with only 51% of the vote. Many of us wanted a change, but did not have the confidence John Kerry could competently do the job.

I certainly don`t hate myself or my life. I live in Florida and have a good life here & a successsful business.  And yes I do not fully trust my government. ( I form my own opinion rather than believe everything I am told). Blind faith into anything is bad. (Even in Axl)