Profiling? -Test Inside-

[Tied-Up]

I am trying to stay neutral on this issue, but I think the analogy is very flawed.? When has the KKK ever been remotely as dangerous as the Al Qaeda?? I have never heard of a KKK killing of more than 5 people.? However, if there are random black churches being blown up by KKK members do you think it would be prudent to search Blacks or Mexicans?? That would be ludicrous.

The analogy is not flawed.? The KKK is a band of terrorists not unlike al queda.?

Hatred fuels terrorism.? While their scale might be a bit smaller than that of al queda, it doesn't make the KKK any less dangerous.? Anyone who is fueled by blind hatred and willing to terrorize and kill other human beings because of that blind hatred is dangerous.?

But this isn't a description of a terrorist: a 17 - 40 year old middle eastern male.

Not all 17 - 40 year old middle eastern men are terrorists.

actually that is the description of a terrorist. No not all 17-40 year old Middle Eastern men are terrorists, but all terrorists are 17-40 year old middle eastern men.

Incorrect.?

Timothy McVey was a terrorist.? He was not a middle eastern man.? He was using forceful methods against his target (citizens of Oklahoma) to intimidate government because of their actions against the branch davidians.?

Illich Ram?rez S?nchez aka The Jackyl was not a middle eastern man.?

There are many terrorist groups throughout the world and are certainly NOT limited to 17 - 40 year old middle eastern males.? For more details, you should read this:? http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/frd.html

[C0ma]

Incorrect. 

Timothy McVey was a terrorist.  He was not a middle eastern man.  He was using forceful methods against his target (citizens of Oklahoma) to intimidate government because of their actions against the branch davidians. 

Illich Ram?rez S?nchez aka The Jackyl was not a middle eastern man. 

There are many terrorist groups throughout the world and are certainly NOT limited to 17 - 40 year old middle eastern males.  For more details, you should read this:  http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/frd.html

Name a terror group that has been active in the last 5-10 years that isn't Islamic based.

like I said before......... I name 100 islamic terror attacks you give me Eric Rodulph or Timothy McVeigh (they are the exception, the Fundamentalist Islamics are the rule)

[Tied-Up]

Revolutionary Organization 17 November:? Most recent attack in June 2000? (based in Greece)

There are guerrilla groups in south america that are still operating.?


These are two examples.? The very fact that there are exceptions makes your? statement that "all" terrorists
are 17 - 40 year old middle eastern men incorrect.

actually that is the description of a terrorist. No not all 17-40 year old Middle Eastern men are terrorists, but all terrorists are 17-40 year old middle eastern men.

Incorrect.  It doesn't follow that just because most of the recent terrorist acts were committed by middle eastern terrorist groups made up of 17 - 40 year old middle eastern males that all terrorists are 17 - 40 year old middle eastern men.

[SLCPUNK]

Revolutionary Organization 17 November:  Most recent attack in June 2000  (based in Greece)

There are guerrilla groups in south america that are still operating. 


These are two examples.  The very fact that there are exceptions makes your  statement that "all" terrorists
are 17 - 40 year old middle eastern men incorrect.

actually that is the description of a terrorist. No not all 17-40 year old Middle Eastern men are terrorists, but all terrorists are 17-40 year old middle eastern men.

Incorrect.  It doesn't follow that just because most of the recent terrorist acts were committed by middle eastern terrorist groups made up of 17 - 40 year old middle eastern males that all terrorists are 17 - 40 year old middle eastern men.

You're good......

[Charity Case]

Revolutionary Organization 17 November:? Most recent attack in June 2000? (based in Greece)

There are guerrilla groups in south america that are still operating.?


These are two examples.? The very fact that there are exceptions makes your? statement that "all" terrorists
are 17 - 40 year old middle eastern men incorrect.

actually that is the description of a terrorist. No not all 17-40 year old Middle Eastern men are terrorists, but all terrorists are 17-40 year old middle eastern men.

Incorrect.? It doesn't follow that just because most of the recent terrorist acts were committed by middle eastern terrorist groups made up of 17 - 40 year old middle eastern males that all terrorists are 17 - 40 year old middle eastern men.

True, there are terrorists out there that are not middle eastern men, but they are not anywhere near the threat to us or in numbers that these islamic based terrorist are.  I hope that your arguement against profiling isn't that profiling won't work because there are guerilla groups operating in South America or there is a terrorist or two in Greece?  There is no way that you can reasonably argue that profiling 17-40 year old middle eastern men won't work because it is n't targeting the right demographic.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

Profiling won't work. because if it worked they would have used it. they're not waiting for some guns n' roses fan to bring up the idea .....

appart from that. someone pointed out that "we need to look at the present"
that is exctly why the world is how it is.
this exactly why the us are in such a bad position.
because they think of the present.
they're attacked, they run to afganistan
then run to iraq
they dont think.

same here, oh !!! man !!  60 middle eastern male attacked us ! let's search all of them !!! yay !! so smart !
you are trying to fight a vague, moving, untouchable, slippery organization (terrorism) by looking at the past and making conclusion.
this is dumb.
even if the more basic strategy you wouldn do that.

you are in a castle. there are like 6 entries in your castle.
the ennemy attacks you on entry B.
what you are doing here, is put all your men on this entry to protect it. D U M B.

i'm sorry. i can see how profiling would give the impression of being secure. i can see GWBUSH doing that. because it will make his people think they're safe.
but that's not how it works. and i'm sure that somewhere in the white house there are smart people, who know that profiling wont work.
because it's a "that's all we got " solution.


i told you. palestine terrorist started using kids and female to bomb israel because male were being searched.

and yes al quaida can hire any non muslim looking guy. why ? because islam is a religion. i can find you white muslim, asian muslim. what ever you want.
and i'm keeping the "muslim" parameter.

but i'm sure that religion is just on of their tool.
they have money. and some people will do anything for money

[Jamie]

How do you think the grandmother everyone keeps using in their argument (which by the way is completely baseless) is going to feel when she sees a Muslim man after everyone telling her that they're the enemy and they need to be checked. All thats going to do is make her feel intimidated and scared shitless everytime she sees a Muslim. Profiling breeds hatred and intimidation.

However she feels, she'll feel that way because it is muslim men who have declared war on the "infidels" of the west and blown up airplanes, embassies, skyscrapers ... you name it. NOT because she's ?been told that they are the enemy.

Profiling does not breed hatred and intimidation. If I get searched because of my tanned skin color before entering an airplane or the subway, people will NOT hate me. On the contrary, they won't have anything to fear because I've passed the check. Neither will I feel intimidated by getting searched. On the contrary, I will safer because I know the security forces are doing their job and protecting me, as well as all Americans and peaceful muslims.

The Muslims who have "declared war on the infidels" are a fierce minority. It is fine to be afraid of a dangerous minority. But pitching the blame of the minority on anyone who looks remotely like some of them people, is putting across the idea that Muslim extremists account for the majority of Muslims, if every Muslim is targeted, that poor grandmother is going to think every Muslim is to be feared. Fearing something leads to hating something, if people are brought to fear every last 17 to 40 year old Muslim man they will grow to hate him. Hate leads to murder. The exact same thing has happened in the past, in the West even, for over 30 years everyone feared Irish people because of the IRA, if the same happens to Muslims it will be a sad day for ethnic freedom

[Surfrider]

I am trying to stay neutral on this issue, but I think the analogy is very flawed.? When has the KKK ever been remotely as dangerous as the Al Qaeda?? I have never heard of a KKK killing of more than 5 people.? However, if there are random black churches being blown up by KKK members do you think it would be prudent to search Blacks or Mexicans?? That would be ludicrous.

The analogy is not flawed.? The KKK is a band of terrorists not unlike al queda.?

Hatred fuels terrorism.? While their scale might be a bit smaller than that of al queda, it doesn't make the KKK any less dangerous.? Anyone who is fueled by blind hatred and willing to terrorize and kill other human beings because of that blind hatred is dangerous.?

Well I agree with most of your post.  However, I do believe the KKK is less dangerous, and I think that is the key.  Show me an article of the KKK killing more than 5 people at a time in the last 20 years?  Of course, if the FBI received a tip that the KKK were going to carry out a bombing would you suggest that the FBI search those that are middle eastern, black men with fros, or white men with bald heads and army boots?

[Surfrider]

Revolutionary Organization 17 November:? Most recent attack in June 2000? (based in Greece)

There are guerrilla groups in south america that are still operating.?


These are two examples.? The very fact that there are exceptions makes your? statement that "all" terrorists
are 17 - 40 year old middle eastern men incorrect.

actually that is the description of a terrorist. No not all 17-40 year old Middle Eastern men are terrorists, but all terrorists are 17-40 year old middle eastern men.

Incorrect.? It doesn't follow that just because most of the recent terrorist acts were committed by middle eastern terrorist groups made up of 17 - 40 year old middle eastern males that all terrorists are 17 - 40 year old middle eastern men.

You're good......

I agree, thats an absurd overgeneralization.?

Profiling won't work. because if it worked they would have used it. they're not waiting for some guns n' roses fan to bring up the idea .....

appart from that. someone pointed out that "we need to look at the present"
that is exctly why the world is how it is.
this exactly why the us are in such a bad position.
because they think of the present.
they're attacked, they run to afganistan
then run to iraq
they dont think.

same here, oh !!! man !!? 60 middle eastern male attacked us ! let's search all of them !!! yay !! so smart !
you are trying to fight a vague, moving, untouchable, slippery organization (terrorism) by looking at the past and making conclusion.
this is dumb.
even if the more basic strategy you wouldn do that.

you are in a castle. there are like 6 entries in your castle.
the ennemy attacks you on entry B.
what you are doing here, is put all your men on this entry to protect it. D U M B.

Certainly, some type of profiling would be efficient wouldnt it?? Say checking all people 17-40?? I dont know, but certainly they can narrow it down so where they arent spending as much time on an 80 year old Irish Nun as they are on myself.? Perhaps middle eastern men is too narrow, but certainly there must be a way to be more efficient.? I would certainly think it would be more efficient to search people of a certain profile for 5 minutes, than every person for one minute.?

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

so here you go.
instead of searching all the middle eastern looking people
we think + analyse + and makes more specific profiles: like people who have records, who are linked to religious groups, we use inteligence systems....

see , we're getting somewhere.

[C0ma]

so here you go.
instead of searching all the middle eastern looking people
we think + analyse + and makes more specific profiles: like people who have records, who are linked to religious groups, we use inteligence systems....

see , we're getting somewhere.

Which is all well and good (and the best way to combat this) but the second we pull 5 "suspected terrorists" out of Logan Airport in Boston the ACLU will be launching frizilous lawsuits against the Airport , the screeners, the government crying for the rights of a terrorist who is probably here illegaly. And their first argument is going to be "profiling" the whole reason I want "racial profiling" to be accepted in this case, is to take away the ACLU's power to intimidate groups like baggage screeners and security personel in airports. How can you do your job when you are looking over your shoulder the whole time.

If Muhammed Atta was pulled off of his plane on 9/11 a disaster would have been averted, but at the same time the ACLU would have launched a campaing that would probably be still going on now in defense of people who illegally over stay student visa's and how they deserver the same or more rights than an American Citizen. That group is the biggest Cancer in this counrty.

[Prometheus]

I started writing this big long winded break down of C0ma and CC and i was going to post it and this massive brick hit me in the back of the head...... so i dropped it all..... and decided to write this.


no matter what the evidence no matter what the occurances no matter what arguements cropup...... you will never look at any principals other then your own. You will look upon the left and think that they are we are all single minded, yet our ideas are multilaterial, they focus on many areas at once to bring about the required end game. You look at force and reduction of civil liberties as the only way in which to exist and to show that the ideals that are hated are the best. yet we no longer enjoy them. For years we listened to countless leaders spout on how the commies are then enemy, how they restrict everythingt hat their people do, now we do the same, under the guise of security. How much more do we have to give up to satisfy the appitie of the power hungry right? too much im afraid...... to much has already been paid for teh new security that we enjoy. But how secure are we really? Do we really live in a safer world post 9/11? Do we live in a safer country?

Air travel is at its safest level ever, which was not exactly a lax security level pre 9/11. Personal freedoms have been reduced, but not suspended. citizens can be held in jail with out being charged, and without legal council under the terroism acts. Most will say this is a fine price to pay for this, this new security. Let me ask you this, your a Middle eastren male between 17-40, and you have lived here for 10 years. you love this country very much. you have a gret job wife kids home in the burbs.. the reall amercian dream. then something happens, you get detained at an airport while flying domestically for business, you are held and interrogated all because you look like someone on a no fly list. The feds question your family frineds co workers investigate the business that you work for. Now when you go back to work what will happen to you? chances are you will be looked at as though you are a terroist, it will ruin your career progression it will hurt your kids at school. Children will beat them up because their dad is/was a suspected terroist........ would you want that to happen to you or your family? of course not!

by profiling in the manner that you both have so veminately supported you have condemmend innosent people to suffer because of what a vast minority have ever done. look to make it simple for you... would you want to get accused of rape? your 100% innocent..... but you know that the accusation will follow you for the rest of your life, in most cases this is the same thing that would happen as what i described for the ME above.

No one is saying assume they are terrorists, what we are saying is rule them out.........
Were not telling them they can't take trains and planes anywhere, we are just covering everyone elses ass by checking every person that fits the description. If you don't agree that 17-40 year old Middle Eastern Men fit the desciption of a terrorist than you don't shouldn't be debating this because you don't know the material.

as i have illustrated above, to rule them out you must treate them as terroists.......... is that a fair trade for the innocents?

Unfortunately, your net of freedom seems to extend to terrorists as well. How is searching people who fit the description of terrorist sacrificing any ideals? I would give up the freedoms of middle eastern men to make my kids safer...any fucking day of the week. If they don't like it, then they can do something themselves to chnage it. They can take actions themselves to fix this problem. Otherwise, they can live with the inconvenience of a few searches. Damn, smallest price I ever heard of to pay.


I love to hear all the bullshit about how profiling sacrifices "the ideals this country was built on". In case people haven't noticed, things have changed considerable since the birth of the US. We have to chnage with it. We have already lost many of our civil liberity....many because of these terrorist attacks. How come you liberals are more outraged by the idea of profiling than you are about the actual terrorist attacks that take place? Are you actually so demented as to feel sorry for the terorist? Can you see and sympathize with their perspective? Are you that pathetic?

again it is not an incovience of a few searches, its the after effects as well..... you keep looking at the short term..... i guess you want to keep dumping tonnes of hydrocarbons into the atmosphere?

im also guessing that you hate the way your country was? really you want me to beleive that you would go all the way to living under a full dictatorship to ensure you security... freedoms be damned?


and no im not putting words in you mouth im just reading ahead... cause you would do anything to secure the security of your kids...... anyone else be damned. look beyond yourself look out 20 yrs and look and tell me what you see the world will look like in that time.. then look at 50yrs..... now look at the cost in money and human life....... now look at he country and world your kids are going to be living in... is it what you want for them?

and again i will close with the same statement. only by striking at the body, not by force but by compassion will you finish off the beast. hoever the heads must be destroy as well..... if not it will take root yet again.

[Prometheus]

so here you go.
instead of searching all the middle eastern looking people
we think + analyse + and makes more specific profiles: like people who have records, who are linked to religious groups, we use inteligence systems....

see , we're getting somewhere.

Which is all well and good (and the best way to combat this) but the second we pull 5 "suspected terrorists" out of Logan Airport in Boston the ACLU will be launching frizilous lawsuits against the Airport , the screeners, the government crying for the rights of a terrorist who is probably here illegaly. And their first argument is going to be "profiling" the whole reason I want "racial profiling" to be accepted in this case, is to take away the ACLU's power to intimidate groups like baggage screeners and security personel in airports. How can you do your job when you are looking over your shoulder the whole time.

If Muhammed Atta was pulled off of his plane on 9/11 a disaster would have been averted, but at the same time the ACLU would have launched a campaing that would probably be still going on now in defense of people who illegally over stay student visa's and how they deserver the same or more rights than an American Citizen. That group is the biggest Cancer in this counrty.

back in my prgional arguement about it i said that the only way to do it is to seach everyone.... you waant to keep the ACLU off your back ... SEARCH EVERYONE!!!!! plus you will be making it more secure without infringing on the right of the people........ no discrimination.... you realise that steping to the point of racial profiling is not too too far away from jsut deporting every single imigrant ... then what would the us economy do? no cheap labour... your fucked.....

[pilferk]

And guess who just bombed London?

Billy Graham??

I'm not in a political mood.

neither am i... however... i guess you better lock em all up eh?

hey didnt the allies do that with the japs in WW2?

fracking hell..... may the gods pee on you for being so anti anything other then your own intrests...... there wa a time when i would have loved to be an amercian citizen... and live within the borders of the most powerful country on earth.... you know what not a chance now.. id rather live where i am.... and stay canadian..... at least here i know that for the most part tolerence is our middle name

Yeah, but, ya know...

We may be warmongering totalitarian fascists (or, our government might be)....

Buy you guys produced Celine Dion and Brian Adams.

(Note: I'm joking.....at least about the US being warmongering totalitarian facists...we all know the real facists are the best at parties. ?But I am pissed about Canada producing Celine and Brian...BLAME CANADA, dam it!)

(Further note: The above opinions do not necessarily represent the opinions of anyone, living or dead. ?Any resemblance to actual opinions is coinicidence. ?In addition, the above expressed opinions should not be construed as support of fascism, totalitarianism, warmongering, Celine Dion, Brian Adams, nor condemnation of any of the above. ?Any persons wishing to express displeasure at the above expressed opinions with their author should email "pullyourheadoutofyourass@itsafuckingjoke.com")

[pilferk]

what do muslim "terroists" dislike about westren civilization? the fact that for teh most part our laws allow freedom for every race and promotes equality among all..........? every freedom that we loose is a victory for the terroists...

You make some good points, but if you think the way to stop terrorism is with words and education, then you are even more left wing than slcpunk.? How come liberals are always satisfied with inaction?? I don't want to make this? political debate between left and right, so I'll stop here.? I agree with some of your post, but I feel that you have to take this fight to the terrorists and not sit back and wait for it to happen again.

as for the next one being big, unless they get a nuke or a WMD, I doubt it will be all that big.? I mean we kicked their asses into the ground in Afganistan and they didn't retaliate at all.? I would think that if they had the capability to do so, they would have done so by now.? Who knows, maybe they will in the future and maybe you will be right.? But if that is the case, they will do so whether we are fighting them or not.? They attacked us at thw WTC and we were not at war with them or Iraq at the time.? Inaction is definately NOT the way to go IMO.

I'm NOT going to jump in the middle of this firefight, but...lets at least be fair.  Prometheus isn't espousing INACTION, he's espousing DIFFERENT actions.  Not using military force isn't inaction. 

You ask why the left wing always are always satisfied with "inaction"...it's the same reason the right wing always jumps up with their guns blazing: a difference in ideology.  Both paths have their uses, in different situations.

[pilferk]

How many of the 9/11 bombers or any other suicide bomber for that matter came from educated countries that didn't have laws similar to the Middle Ages.? Like it or not, most of the countries in the Middle East are 200 years behind the rest of the world.? It's the same ignorance that was utilized by Christian leaders for their crimes in the past.? No one is free from this guilt, but once again, who ethnic and religious group is currently using terrorist tactics??
? ?

Someone may have pointed this out (I don't know and haven't finished the thread) already, but the 9/11 terrorists were actually relatively well off, well educated, intelligent men.   I believe most, if not all, of them were found to have a Western Education, some born in Western countries, and some from Saudi Arabia (hardly a downtrodden, uneducated country with laws similar to those of the middle ages).  Just to clarify...

[pilferk]

That idiot in the white house has even gone on record to say that he doesn't care about Osama, and that it's not his top priority to capture him

When was that?? Not saying it didn't happen but I'd like more than your word on that.

Yes... those crimes HAVE been committed, and if profiling is used to CAPTURE those who perpetrated the crimes, that is one thing, but to search every man between the age of 17 - 40 who bears resemblance to a man from the middle east and to assume that they are guilty of crimes yet to be committed is racism? AND a violation of the freedoms this nation stands for. It's singling out one race and it's assuming one's guilty before proven innoncent.

No one is looking to accuse all Middle Eastern men of crimes then round them up and throw them in concentration camps. We are talking about searches, a random search when looking to stop terroism is pointless. Why search at all?? We know "who" we are looking to stop, it's like an SAT question..... Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim.

The problem with the current philosophy of NO racial profiling and truely random searches is that baggage screeners actually stay away from Middle Eastern looking men because they feel they will be labled as racist and possibly fired. How does that help us stop this problem? What good does it do when a woman getting on flight 523 to LA is searched, whats the best thing you are going to get out of her 1/2 an ounce of medical marijuna? The little blue haired lady isn't going to hijack the plane, but the guy with the carry on bag that contains "How to fly but not land a 767, the terrorists guide to crashing into a building" that wasn't search beacuse the screener didn't want to lose her job for searching the brown guy.

Quotes from GW on Osama's importance:

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

"I am truly not that concerned about him."
- G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts,
3/13/02
 
There are a few others...just google to find 'em.

[pilferk]

gosh you wont understand.
al quaida dont care about muslim or arab or anything.
if you start profiling arab people. they'll use different people they dont care.

this is why palestine started using kids and girls as kamikaze. because 17-40 years male where being search exclusively ...

same thing gonna happen, you gonna search all the black guys, and alquaida will find a way to use that old white woman and blow her bag off ...
but you dont get it. profiling is useless.

How is Bin Laden going to recruit these people?? right now they are being recruited based on their religion..... they are feeding on a misinterpretation of their religion...... so how are they going to get an 89 year old Catholic Woman to blow something up? get a clue before you start telling me that Irish teenage girls are going to hi jack planes in the name of Allah.?

I think the point they're trying to make (again, clarification only..not defending one way or the other) is that it's impossible to look at that 89 year old woman and know she's catholic....just like it's impossible to look at a middle-eastern man and know he's a muslim.

[pilferk]

But this isn't a description of a terrorist:? a 17 - 40 year old middle eastern male.

Not all 17 - 40 year old middle eastern men are terrorists.?

actually that is the description of a terrorist. No not all 17-40 year old Middle Eastern men are terrorists, but all terrorists are 17-40 year old middle eastern men.

Being a 17 - 40 year old middle eastern man is not illegal either, and to operate on the assumption that they are terrorists based only upon their age bracket and their race is called RACIAL DISCRIMINATION.?

No one is saying assume they are terrorists, what we are saying is rule them out.........
Were not telling them they can't take trains and planes anywhere, we are just covering everyone elses ass by checking every person that fits the description. If you don't agree that 17-40 year old Middle Eastern Men fit the desciption of a terrorist than you don't shouldn't be debating this because you don't know the material.

"I don't know where he is. . . I just don't spend that much time on him really, to be honest with you. . . I truly am not that concerned about him." - George W. Bush,
March 13, 2002



You can find the full text on this at:? ?http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html? <Transcript during a press conference

Instead of making Bin Laden his top priority he turned his attention on Saddam.? It would seem to me that the key to stopping terrorist acts that are masterminded by Osama Bin Laden would be to... I don't know... CAPTURE Osama Bin Laden?? ?Perhaps?? Maybe??

That doesn't mean that terrorist acts would stop, I'm not that naive.? what I am saying is that it would certainly curtail terrorist acts that are masterminded by Osama himself.? Since 9/11 was the brainchild of Osama, it seems only logical that he should be our target, not Iraq.

Don't take everything so literaly. That was his sad atempt at dry humor, he means that he doesn't personaly spend his entire day looking for Bin Laden. The US is still looking for him and is being hampered by border politics (Pakistan).

Here's the full quote:

"Deep in my heart I know the man is on the run, if he's alive at all.  Who knows if he's hiding in some cave or not; we haven't heard from him in a long time.  And the idea of focusing on one person is --  really indicates to me people don't understand the scope of the mission.

Terror is bigger than one person.  And he's just  --  he's a person who's now been marginalized.  His network, his host government has been destroyed.  He's the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his match.  He is  --  as I mentioned in my speech, I do mention the fact that this is a fellow who is willing to commit youngsters to their death and he, himself, tries to hide  --  if, in fact, he's hiding at all.

So I don't know where he is.  You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you.  I'm more worried about making sure that our soldiers are well-supplied; that the strategy is clear; that the coalition is strong; that when we find enemy bunched up like we did in Shahikot Mountains, that the military has all the support it needs to go in and do the job, which they did.

And there will be other battles in Afghanistan.  There's going to be other struggles like Shahikot, and I'm just as confident about the outcome of those future battles as I was about Shahikot, where our soldiers are performing brilliantly.  We're tough, we're strong, they're well-equipped. We have a good strategy.  We are showing the world we know how to fight a guerrilla war with conventional means. "

He's not being dry, he's answering the question.  He says he thinks Osama's been marginalized, and that the focus should not be on one person.  How you can interpret that, in context, to be dry humor, I can't fathom.

Again, on the profiling thing, I'm staying out of it.  My opinion wavers too much for me to take a hard line stand, one way or the other.  I see both the pluses and minuses of both arguments... 

[pilferk]

haha, look at the two biggest TOOLBAGS get together on this one.

No SLC, you never open your post with any insults.

I didn't mention your name did I?

 

Was there any doubt who you were speaking about?? No.? And I was SO surprised to hear that you were against real action and for non-action.? Shocker.? ??

I love to hear all the bullshit about how profiling sacrifices "the ideals this country was built on".? In case people haven't noticed, things have changed considerable since the birth of the US.? We have to chnage with it.? We have already lost many of our civil liberity....many because of these terrorist attacks.? How come you liberals are more outraged by the idea of profiling than you are about the actual terrorist attacks that take place?? ?Are you actually so demented as to feel sorry for the terorist?? Can you see and sympathize with their perspective?? Are you that pathetic?

Interesting that you'd espouse changing with the times when, for the most part, the right espouses a literal interpretation of the Constitusion (ie: the words written 200+ years ago) rather than a living Constitution (taking into account the changes of the past 200+ years).    Just a point.