Rights, religion clash in cartoon uproar

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

I was talking about your country (we sometimes wonder if you're french or not ...) , and feelings. not physical security. you always bring *isreal's great, isreal's that, israel's this ... " you sound like the guys who always babble about gay people .... insecurity. lack of confidence. live by yourself. not by your country or your mother's religion. the fact that you are jewish or what ever, is just a coincidence.

The problem is not if I feel "french" or not.? Obviously I feel french, and I am. The problem is that sometimes I do NOT feel "in France". Like million and million of French citizens. When I go to "portes de la chapelle" (just an exemple), I feel in Iran.

wow ... so if i go to New York i feel like where ? africa ?
people from every country are everywhere. but if you want things to change and if you like france, you should stick up more for it, and not for israel. you walking on french streets and using french metro .... after all.

bakc on subject.
it's all politics. and sakib, one question > do you accept that people can think that god does not exist and that religion is bullshit ?
would it have been less insulting, if we said " god sucks ! "
we didnt insult persons. we insluted a concept / dream / faith > unreal.

[nesquick]

but if you want things to change and if you like france, you should stick up more for it, and not for israel. you walking on french streets and using french metro .... after all.

as a jewish, Israel is my 2nd home. this is something you will probably never understand. Both countries are as important for me. half of my family lives in France, and half in Israel. Those 2 countries are like my mother and my father. Do you have a problem with that?

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

but if you want things to change and if you like france, you should stick up more for it, and not for israel. you walking on french streets and using french metro .... after all.

as a jewish, Israel is my 2nd home. this is something you will probably never understand. Both countries are as important for me. half of my family lives in France, and half in Israel. Those 2 countries are like my mother and my father. Do you have a problem with that?

yes. i dont like community feelings and *being part of something*. that's why i hate religion.
but you do as you want. just don't forget that you're in France. cause you dissed paris by saying it looks like iran ..... well people can say " man it looks like israel ! why can't they go home ? " .... it's called racism.

[C0ma]

I just find this whole situation comical.

The point of the cartoon was that groups of muslims (a minority of muslims) use their faith as a rallying cry to spread violence against anyone who doesn't share or opposes their views. As soon as the cartoons surfaced, what is the first thing that happened?? Mass violence against embassies, and groups calling for the beheading of those responsible for the cartoon. (nothing like giving that stereotype legs to walk on)

Also here in the US, the AP has refused to circulate the images to their clients (major news outlets) because it is offensive...... But an art exibit featuring Virgin Mary covered in Cow Dung, or a Crusifix in a jar of piss is more than news worthy and should be covered by the New York times..... Do you know why, fear...... Christians aren't going to burn down the New York times for printing an offensive picture of the Virgin Mary or Jesus Christ. But if the Boston Herald printed the cartoon in question there is a greater than fifty fifty chance that Boston MA would become a one newspaper town because the Herald Headquarters would be blown clear across Rt. 93.

[WARose]

Walk, you really are more biased than i thought. You seem to hate Muslims and thing that we're violent thugs. I could be wrong.

Well if muslims don't want us to think they are violent thugs, then maybe they should stop acting that way?Destroying embasies, and calling for the kidnapping and dismembering of innocent people is most definately the work of voilent thugs. And who was it that ordered these things to happen? Hmm let me think... Oh right I got it, it was muslim religious leaders. Sure paints a funny picture for the rest of the world that's for sure.....

So what? Whats your point? You think i agree with the embassies being destroyed? And no i've never seen south park. Normal Muslims DO CARE because what are people that don't know much about islam think??? If you gave it to a child who doesnt know, what'd they think?  It's kinda like Germany pre-World War 2. Unfortunately, due to unreliable leaders such as Saddam Hussain and ayatollahs, they need some law and order and it seems to them that the more radical parties seem to take more action if that makes sense. Btw, this shit with Palestine and Israel is going back 100s of years not 30. Do you believe everything you read and see on the news??

actually it?s go on for like 60 years.....

and well..... i suppose those guys in indonesia burning the embassy of danemark are "a bit upset", too.....  it`s pathetic.

please notice that it`s not my aim to offend the regular muslims, but what`s going on among the hardliners (they seem to be quite much....) isn`t bearable anymore....   

i have to admit that i use to be a hardliner against bush. and i understand that the people in afghanistan and iraq don`t want american soldiers there, but burning the embassy of danemark goes too far......

i also understand that religion is an important part of the live of a muslim/christ/ whatever, but i can`t understand feeling offended by some fuckin`cartoon.....   get a life


and please read the article posted in post #45.      there`s something terribly wrong..... and i`m not speaking about tolerance !!  people in europe are doing everything to be tolerant and muslims think they can do whatever they want....  or don?t you think the bit about the bugerking ice creamn isn?t ridiculous??

tell me im wrong but you seem to think i wanted to burn the embassies. We're offended by the cartoon because of the image it gives about Muslims. And if you cant understand it, that your problem, as u've ignored so many of my posts (it seems to me that way) i'll say again, i was upset as were many but at least i manage to control myself from being ridiculous and burning Danish flags. I only agree with describing the implications of the idiot who drew that cartoons action in the future. Also, those people dont have to convert, its choice

well you can say whatever you want....  your first reaction here was "kill that fucker!!".... 
i know you wouldn`t say that again, but this statement from an educated muslim (at least i think so...) isn`t casting a positive light on neither you nor the islam in general. i also know that lots of muslims are against violence etc, but every muslim has to accept that there are other oppinions...

and all the religions of the world have way too much influence on the people by the way. it just causes violence and hate..... and to people like me who think there is no god, etc this is insane.... it ought to be insane to muslims, christians etc, too, because basically you`re all believing in the same thing.

and by the way..... why the fuck are muslims even caring about this shit??? it`s RIDICULOUS!!   are there christians burning embassies, because of those jesus cartoons etc?? i don?t think it`s allowed to draw a pic of god, nor to make fun of it in that religion either......     well they did "burn embassies" by the way........ 800 years ago as i said....     

i don? t think it`s right that people have to die, because of a book that was written 1400 years ago.......

[Sakib]

in response to WARose last post, i'm happy to accept people don;t have to believe in a god. And i have to respect that because i go to a school where i'm the only muslim and coloured person (out of 1200 pupils). they arent religious at all. I would get annoyed if some1 said God sucks which is typical of people who see life negatively. However, to talk about someone like a Prophet like that, i'd find it offensive. I also find it offensive if you cuss Jesus as Jesus was a Messenger of Allah before Muhammad according to the qur'an. our story goes differently though toward the end. I'd also get annoyed if you cuss a Jewish messenger that appears in the qur'an such as Musa (Moses) or Ibrahim (Abraham). Unfortunately, due to a lack of education in majority of Muslims nowadays, they dont study the qur'an, thus they dont know how to react and dont know the true detail of the qur'an. as far as making fun of Isa (Jesus), i saw a cartoon to do with his crucifixion. Muslims believe he wasnt crucified at all. Instead, i think it was the Roman general or Judas (I'll check again) who got crucified. I'd be offended if you made fun of some parts of the Torah as parts of them are agreed to be true as theyre mentioned in the qur'an, such as parts of the Talmud (refer to me nesquick if i blunder).

[the dirt]

tell me im wrong but you seem to think i wanted to burn the embassies. We're offended by the cartoon because of the image it gives about Muslims.

So what is the image being given off? This behavior is just reinforcing the attitudes the comics were making fun of. It would be better if the muslim world laughed it off. That would be proof enough that muslims, fanatic or not, are not like that.

[nesquick]

but if you want things to change and if you like france, you should stick up more for it, and not for israel. you walking on french streets and using french metro .... after all.

as a jewish, Israel is my 2nd home. this is something you will probably never understand. Both countries are as important for me. half of my family lives in France, and half in Israel. Those 2 countries are like my mother and my father. Do you have a problem with that?

yes. i dont like community feelings and *being part of something*. that's why i hate religion.
but you do as you want. just don't forget that you're in France. cause you dissed paris by saying it looks like iran ..... well people can say " man it looks like israel ! why can't they go home ? " .... it's called racism.

Stop Hypocrisis. why do you think Le Pen went to the 2nd tour of the presidential in 2002? Open your eyes dude. It's not good to avoid seeing problems.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

but if you want things to change and if you like france, you should stick up more for it, and not for israel. you walking on french streets and using french metro .... after all.

as a jewish, Israel is my 2nd home. this is something you will probably never understand. Both countries are as important for me. half of my family lives in France, and half in Israel. Those 2 countries are like my mother and my father. Do you have a problem with that?

yes. i dont like community feelings and *being part of something*. that's why i hate religion.
but you do as you want. just don't forget that you're in France. cause you dissed paris by saying it looks like iran ..... well people can say " man it looks like israel ! why can't they go home ? " .... it's called racism.

Stop Hypocrisis. why do you think Le Pen went to the 2nd tour of the presidential in 2002? Open your eyes dude. It's not good to avoid seeing problems.

still. religion sucks ass.
and if people wanna say God is a Moron, they can. mahomet, yahve, jesus ... who ever you want.
respecting people is one thing. making fun is another

sakib, what you don't get, is that YOUR SACRED, is not our sacred. and you CANNOT apply your rules of fear - fear of going to hell ? - to us.

see, let's say, i start a cult where britney spears is our godess. will you stop makin fun of her because of us ? nope.

what you don't get. is that your sacred means nothing to us. making fun of mahomet is like making fun of a tree. it's nothing.
then again. respecting PEOPLE is important. so we dont make fun OF Mr. Bob or Mrs. Jane .... we make fun of a concept > religion > and especially when it's used in that way > terrorism.

edit: all that was an exageration to show how people think on different level. no offense you have the right to believe in lies....i mean, books

[MR W,AXL ROSE]

religeon will be the death of us all.its getting so fukin lame that a stupid cartoon can cause so much damage.i have my beliefs but if someone was to mock my beliefs and religeon then thats up to them coz at the end of the day,if i believe it,doesnt mean you have too.

[WARose]

in response to WARose last post, i'm happy to accept people don;t have to believe in a god. And i have to respect that because i go to a school where i'm the only muslim and coloured person (out of 1200 pupils). they arent religious at all. I would get annoyed if some1 said God sucks which is typical of people who see life negatively. However, to talk about someone like a Prophet like that, i'd find it offensive. I also find it offensive if you cuss Jesus as Jesus was a Messenger of Allah before Muhammad according to the qur'an. our story goes differently though toward the end. I'd also get annoyed if you cuss a Jewish messenger that appears in the qur'an such as Musa (Moses) or Ibrahim (Abraham). Unfortunately, due to a lack of education in majority of Muslims nowadays, they dont study the qur'an, thus they dont know how to react and dont know the true detail of the qur'an. as far as making fun of Isa (Jesus), i saw a cartoon to do with his crucifixion. Muslims believe he wasnt crucified at all. Instead, i think it was the Roman general or Judas (I'll check again) who got crucified. I'd be offended if you made fun of some parts of the Torah as parts of them are agreed to be true as theyre mentioned in the qur'an, such as parts of the Talmud (refer to me nesquick if i blunder).

i don`t like how everything you do must be allowed in a 1000+ years old book.......  and well this book can be and is interpreted in many ways....... it`s the same with women etc.....

and by the way i watched a tv show vesterday and some leader of a muslim organistation here in germany told that it`s actually not forbidden to have pics of muhammad..... it`s just the interpretation that makes it forbidden i guess.....

and what really strikes me is that like 99% of the muslims didn`t even see those cartoons....  but are offended though....   i think this all is really bad manipulation.....   these pics were printed in september....   i don`t think these pics are the reason fot this, they`re just an excuse for terrorists and uneducated muslims......

and i heard that the governments of vertain countries are supporting this shit, by making people acting the way they are.....



and my opinion is that there has to be such a thing as respect towards religions and stuff, but since everyone is allowed to think whatever the fuck he wants you can`t press it. you  have to accept that religion is bullshit to lots of people and violence won`t stop that.   what is really ridiculous, is that those cartoons were actually about the violence and stuff. and what do certain muslims do to disprove that??   

[gilld1]

The Muslim population is acting like a three year old throwing a tantrum when they didn't get their way.  Why don't the Arabs clean up their press?  "Curse you for being anti-Muslim but it's OK if we bash the Jews and Christians."  How do you spell hypocrit?  A R A B S!

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

The Muslim population is acting like a three year old throwing a tantrum when they didn't get their way.  Why don't the Arabs clean up their press?  "Curse you for being anti-Muslim but it's OK if we bash the Jews and Christians."  How do you spell hypocrit?  A R A B S!

yeah let's kill them all !!

[gilld1]

Real intelligent post, Wat ever I'm totally not a thinker.

[Sakib]

the fact that its a picture of the prophet muhammad is bad enough

[Sakib]

The Muslim population is acting like a three year old throwing a tantrum when they didn't get their way.? Why don't the Arabs clean up their press?? "Curse you for being anti-Muslim but it's OK if we bash the Jews and Christians."? How do you spell hypocrit?? A R A B S!

yeah let's kill them all !!

the arabs i know are very nice people. All the bad stuff about em i hear is on tv

[WARose]

i watched a tv show vesterday and some leader of a muslim organistation here in germany told that it`s actually not forbidden to have pics of muhammad....

sakib?   are you really sure it?s forbidden?

[Eazy E]

the fact that its a picture of the prophet muhammad is bad enough

Really, who cares?  It's a cartoon.

[SLCPUNK]

I guess the question is: What would Muhammad do?

[AxlsMainMan]

WAT-EVER, im totally buggin':

Im not a church goer and dont really have a certain classification of faith, but Ive been reading about God and my existence over the past few months, and ironically started the Holy Bible just last weekend...only finished Genesis at the moment though...but I can tell you it's the most unreal piece of literature you could ever feast your eyes upon...

Have you ever even read a single page of the Holy Bible?...

You're entirely right that your comments that: "religion sucks", or "god sucks" may not be offensive to the majority, but I do have to admit it does make you look like a total jackass...

Like honestly, at least read and understand what the fuck it is your slamming before you even have the words at your fingertips..

Religion doesnt have to be a "restrictive community" or however it is you put it...

Id urge you to read the Bible and related texts in the comfort of your own fucking home, and deconstruct it's many possible meanings with your friends and family too accumulate how this book has, and could potentially shape your future...

If you choose not too, I dont care..you have free choice...

By the way the whole Bible is essentially emphasizing the gift of free choice that God gave you....

But please dont spam a good debate thread with stupid rumblings like "Religion sucks"

How could it possibly suck if you dont partake in it?