Philosophical question of the month-June

[the dirt]

Common sense decisions will be of the selfish sort far more often than "moral" ones.

Evil hampers one's ability to always make the "morally right" decision.

[2NaFish]

god is supposed to be infinetely powerful; surely he could make people more selfish towards making morally right decisions.

or simply have less evil in the world.

[Jessica]

evil is what makes us better people.

It makes us think, it makes us evolve, it makes us want to be better so we never become it ( evil)

If the world was all good, people would become self indulgent and therefore, problems would arise, again and things would probably be worse, as people who self indulge usually tend to have vices and vices become uglier and therefore, we go back to evil.

So either you have a small percentage of evil or the whole society.

God wants a balance.

Fat/thin
Rich/poor
Healthy/ill
................................

Without the balance, it's chaos.

[-Jack-]

I believe life is about being good to others. Being a servant for humanity. To give hope to others.

God or no God why not just be the best person you can be and hope other people see and follow your lead?

[journey]

I believe life is about being good to others. Being a servant for humanity. To give hope to others.

God or no God why not just be the best person you can be and hope other people see and follow your lead?

Agreed. I think a lot of people try to live by that philosophy.

[RichardNixon]

evil is what makes us better people.

It makes us think, it makes us evolve, it makes us want to be better so we never become it ( evil)

If the world was all good, people would become self indulgent and therefore, problems would arise, again and things would probably be worse, as people who self indulge usually tend to have vices and vices become uglier and therefore, we go back to evil.

So either you have a small percentage of evil or the whole society.

God wants a balance.

Fat/thin
Rich/poor
Healthy/ill
................................

Without the balance, it's chaos.

Why would eternal peace bring chaos? Surely it's in God's power to have that, to create people that would be unable to harm, to make it so there would never be natural disastrous. Why not just create an everlasting heaven to begin with. Why bother with tests and making humanity jump through hoops?

[Jessica]

when humanity learns too fast, they self destruct

also, i don't think god has any business with man creation..modified dna over millions of years does

[Danny Top Hat]

Why would eternal peace bring chaos? Surely it's in God's power to have that, to create people that would be unable to harm, to make it so there would never be natural disastrous. Why not just create an everlasting heaven to begin with. Why bother with tests and making humanity jump through hoops?

It's clear to me that God never intervines with everyday life - he created the universe and left it to take its natural course.? Humans are wonderfully complex animals with a wide spectrum of emotion and phenominal intelligence, yet still you're saying that he didn't make us perfect.? That's just nitpicking, dude.? As a race we have collonised the entire planet, we've produced wonderful art, we've reached the moon and all the time we're discovering new things about the world and finding new toys to invent.? Yes there are arseholes in the world and pain and cruelty do exist, but that doesn't disprove God's existence.

[Sakib]

god is supposed to be infinetely powerful; surely he could make people more selfish towards making morally right decisions.

or simply have less evil in the world.

Humans are tested in this world which is why there is so much evil. They're tested till death because life is just one big test. It's an ongoing battle life is. And there'll be select few who will definately go to Paradise not a majority. It's survival of the fittest kinda thing.

[2NaFish]

god is supposed to be infinetely powerful; surely he could make people more selfish towards making morally right decisions.

or simply have less evil in the world.

Humans are tested in this world which is why there is so much evil. They're tested till death because life is just one big test. It's an ongoing battle life is. And there'll be select few who will definately go to Paradise not a majority. It's survival of the fittest kinda thing.

Close, but not good enough.

I can accept that a lot of evil in the world is soul building and a necessity. But not all of it.

What is the soul building benefit of the holocaust, for example?

and i find the idea that god tests us quite insulting. That we are there for his amusement somehow.

[journey]

I can accept that a lot of evil in the world is soul building and a necessity. But not all of it.

What is the soul building benefit of the holocaust, for example?

and i find the idea that god tests us quite insulting. That we are there for his amusement somehow.

God tests on things that help us. Wars and massacres are our own doings. Some people develop a superiority complex, thinking that their lives are more important (for various reasons) than others. That's when the trouble starts. But everyone has a voice inside telling them when they're doing wrong. Some choose not to listen.

God sees all the good, as well as all the bad. Should he destroy the world because of all the bad things? Or should he keep it going because of the good?

[axlrosegnr]

W. Axl Rose  ---  Thats the answer.

[2NaFish]

no. thats not correct. sakib said "Humans are tested in this world which is why there is so much evil". Therefore the evil put in this world comes from god as a test. Including atrocities like the holocaust. Where is the benefit of the holocaust?

And anyway, that just comes back to the point i made a dozen times that you never answered - if all the atrocities in the world which are not soul building come from us why didnt god make us better at making moral decisions. Remember i've already proven that god can improve any of our decision making processes without affecting free will.

[journey]

And anyway, that just comes back to the point i made a dozen times that you never answered - if all the atrocities in the world which are not soul building come from us why didnt god make us better at making moral decisions. Remember i've already proven that god can improve any of our decision making processes without affecting free will.

He did make us better at making moral decisions. There's not one person in my life who's ever murdered anyone, raped anyone, robbed anyone, etc.....

You're concentrating on all the people who do bad things rather than good. Look at Gandhi, Mother Teresa, M.L.K., Dalai Lama and others like them. You think they crashed at making good moral decisions? There are people in this world who would give their lives up for total strangers.

Everyone is equal in morality from the start, but because of free will, the world is divided.

[2NaFish]

you've still not answered my question.

i don't deny that there are good people in the world, why you bring that up i have no idea. But when talking about the nature of evil its a necessity to look at evil. and free will doesnt come in to it. i've already proven that god can affect our decision making without affecting free will

Why did god allow some people to stoop so low in their moral decision making? why didnt he make them better? - as he is able to do.

[GeorgeSteele]

Tuna, I'm trying to understand your motivation. ?I'm assuming that your ultimate point is that God does not exist because if an all-powerful, all-loving God really existed we would be perfect beings and there would be no evil. ?Is that correct? ?

If so, what answers are you looking for? ?The paradox of God co-existing with evil has never been and never will be adequately resolved. ?You seem like an intelligent guy, so I'm sure you understand that issue won't be resolved in this thread. ?

Anyway, what do you think? God or no God, what is the meaning of life?


 

[2NaFish]

basically i'm trying to prove that an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving god wouldn't allow this much evil in the world. not that an all-KPG God would make a perfect world; just a better one. and i certainly understand that the issue won't be resolved here (i lived with a fundamentalist christian for a year. he's a  great guy and we used to debate this issue a fair bit. it never got heated tho, just something to flex our brains a bit. he was also studying to be a lawyer and i studied philosophy so the two contrasting styles were fun)

but this is a philosophical thread and i'm engaging in a philosophical argument with people of a different view point. essentially i'm playing devil's advocate tho, and just providing responses to what people are saying. I feel that too often people of faith fit their answers around the questions i ask, rather than having a belief structure set out that provides an answer to any question i put forward.

my views on the meaning of life are on the first page; however (incredibly hypocritically i must say) i'd prefer not to debate them as i can't back them up as i don't really know the quantum physics involved. its just a theory that interests me. its the one i like the most currently, but i'd be lieing if i said i expected it to be true.

[journey]

you've still not answered my question.

I've tried to answer it the best I can.

i don't deny that there are good people in the world, why you bring that up i have no idea.

Because it seems like your main concern is focused on the evil of the world.

But when talking about the nature of evil its a necessity to look at evil. and free will doesnt come in to it. i've already proven that god can affect our decision making without affecting free will

That's not possible. If someone in your life controlled your decision making, would you consider yourself free?

By the way, I don't think evil is necessary. It exists, because people allow it to.

[2NaFish]

i've aleady proven god doesnt control our decision making; but he can improve it. remember the jumping off a building scenario? we're good at common sense, poor at morals. why not make us better at moral decisions - not perfect, just better so that so much bad stuff doesnt happen.

and what about the asian tsunami? surely that is evil and i'd be surprised if you could say that exists because people allowed it.

also; god is the master creater. he created everything. and since evil exists, surely he created that too.

[journey]

i've aleady proven god doesnt control our decision making; but he can improve it.

To improve would be to control.

also; god is the master creater. he created everything. and since evil exists, surely he created that too.

Maybe there's another powerful force that created evil.