Sen. Barack Obama

[mainline]

The common misconception is that I am "far left". Those who wish to attack me, label me as so. Those who actually read what I say, and have said for years, would see otherwise.

No misconceptions here.  I've read your posts here going on 5 years now and you're just about as far left as they come.

[Z]

I've been reading Punk's posts since 2003 and my opinion he is not far left.  More like he sees the big picture.

I work around politicians.  Have for 10 years now.  The majority, and I mean 9 out of 10, are self serving.

If Obama ran, I would actually begin voting again.

He is a balanced human being who's concern is for the greater good of all of humanity......not himself.

[mainline]

I've been reading Punk's posts since 2003 and my opinion he is not far left.? More like he sees the big picture.

You say that because you're coming from the left as well.? Big picture, my ass.? See, that's the problem.? Everyone claims that they hold the middle ground and are the ones who really see things clearly.? I can admit that I come from the right.? While his posts betray his liberal leanings almost on a daily basis, SLC avoids actually admitting he's on the left.? Maybe he thinks it will detract from his credibility.? After all, he's got people who think he sees the big picture.

I work around politicians.? Have for 10 years now.? The majority, and I mean 9 out of 10, are self serving.

No kidding.

If Obama ran, I would actually begin voting again.

He is a balanced human being who's concern is for the greater good of all of humanity......not himself.

We'll have to see....

[Z]

You like to debate huh mainline??  I said "my opinion".  Pay attention to the words.

You've judged me as far left on, what (?), 4 sentences??

When I say big picture, I mean "outside of the box".  Do you know what I mean when I say that?

You remind me of somebody who has posted here in the past under many different names.  He knew everything about everything as you seem to think you do.  BBBR, mahan, The Joker were a few of his names.

I don't look at Bush as just being the "village idoit" that he is......I see his role as president of this country as "meant to be" and necessary for what the "higher" good is out to accomplish as a whole.

Like, outside of this reality.  Opportunities to redirect the energies behind all these wars that are reincarnations of past "mistakes" made by civilizations thousands of years ago.

But then again I am open to the possibility that those "mistakes" were meant to be.

And yes, very profound of you to end with "we'll have to wait and see......"  How about an "only time will tell".  Isn't that the case with all things in our future?

Obama has a "Buddha" like aura about him.  The first time I saw him, I felt that he had a very important part to play in this world in the future.  "Politicians" like him can help redirect this world to one where parents begin to make their children their primary concern.  It is the only way we can begin to right the wrongs of the world.  To start at the beginning and the children of the world are "our beginning".

[mainline]

You like to debate huh mainline??

?

Not really.? Gave that up a long time ago.? I only come around here once in a while nowadays.

I said "my opinion".? Pay attention to the words.

You've judged me as far left on, what (?), 4 sentences??

That was all it took.? You said you've been reading SLCPUNK's posts since 2003.? It doesn't take three days to figure out where he's coming from, let alone three years.? Yet it was your "opinion" that he isn't on the far left.? To think as much is a good indicator of where you stand yourself.?

When I say big picture, I mean "outside of the box".? Do you know what I mean when I say that?

I think so.? It's the type of thinking that fuels dozens of conspiracy theories and hundreds of blogs by thousands of people who think they can change the world through internet message boards.

You remind me of somebody who has posted here in the past under many different names.? He knew everything about everything as you seem to think you do.? BBBR, mahan, The Joker were a few of his names.

Hmmmm....now what would make you say that?? Me thinks someone has been whispering in your ear.? Tell them "hi" for me.

I don't look at Bush as just being the "village idoit" that he is......I see his role as president of this country as "meant to be" and necessary for what the "higher" good is out to accomplish as a whole.

Like, outside of this reality.? Opportunities to redirect the energies behind all these wars that are reincarnations of past "mistakes" made by civilizations thousands of years ago.

But then again I am open to the possibility that those "mistakes" were meant to be.

And yes, very profound of you to end with "we'll have to wait and see......"? How about an "only time will tell".? Isn't that the case with all things in our future?

Obama has a "Buddha" like aura about him.? The first time I saw him, I felt that he had a very important part to play in this world in the future.? "Politicians" like him can help redirect this world to one where parents begin to make their children their primary concern.? It is the only way we can begin to right the wrongs of the world.? To start at the beginning and the children of the world are "our beginning".

That's all fine and good, but if you are counting on politicians (Obama or whoever) to be the saviors of the world, you're going to be sorely disappointed.

[Booker Floyd]

Im curious to know what the threads conservatives like about Obama?  What makes him so moderate?

[sandman]

Im curious to know what the threads conservatives like about Obama?? What makes him so moderate?

i'm not a conservative, i just play one on these boards.

but i already listed a few things. he's worked closely with mccain on a number of bills that were eventually signed by bush. it appears he tries hard to be a unifier. he respects religion and people's faith and isn't afraid to say it.

i'm still waiting for anyone on the left to say why they like this guy so much. he's been rated A+ by some, but people refuse to say why.

anyone? anyone?

[Surfrider]

Im curious to know what the threads conservatives like about Obama?? What makes him so moderate?

Like I have said, I don't know a lot about him, and I don't believe he has had to express his viewpoint on a lot of controversial issues.  I did see his interview on Meet the Press last weekend - which is never a softball interview - and I actually liked him.  I thought he was very articulate in that interview.  I also think that he isn't a left-wing bombthrower that will oppose Bush just to oppose Bush.  Certainly, his politics are to the left, but he comes off as someone that actually thinks about the issues and that stands on principles.  For example, Russert asked him about his vote against John Roberts.  Obama explained that he was against John Roberts, but was also against a filibuster because Roberts was well-qualified.  Even though I strongly disagree with his vote against Roberts, the explanation that he gave leads me to believe that he has principles and won't oppose the President at all costs.  I think he has an understanding of history and how the process has worked - perhaps just in this particular area since he was a Con law professor - and doesn't just play the ideology game.

[Booker Floyd]

Im curious to know what the threads conservatives like about Obama?  What makes him so moderate?

Like I have said, I don't know a lot about him, and I don't believe he has had to express his viewpoint on a lot of controversial issues.  I did see his interview on Meet the Press last weekend - which is never a softball interview - and I actually liked him.  I thought he was very articulate in that interview.  I also think that he isn't a left-wing bombthrower that will oppose Bush just to oppose Bush.  Certainly, his politics are to the left, but he comes off as someone that actually thinks about the issues and that stands on principles.  For example, Russert asked him about his vote against John Roberts.  Obama explained that he was against John Roberts, but was also against a filibuster because Roberts was well-qualified.  Even though I strongly disagree with his vote against Roberts, the explanation that he gave leads me to believe that he has principles and won't oppose the President at all costs.  I think he has an understanding of history and how the process has worked - perhaps just in this particular area since he was a Con law professor - and doesn't just play the ideology game.

You might feel similarly about Russ Feingold then.

but i already listed a few things. he's worked closely with mccain on a number of bills that were eventually signed by bush. it appears he tries hard to be a unifier. he respects religion and people's faith and isn't afraid to say it.

Many Democrats, even those perceived as liberals by some of you, have worked with Republicans.  And theyve done nothing but be respectful of religion in public.  So the key difference seems to be simple likability, which certainly speaks to his skill as a politician.  Its the reason I think he would make a good candidate for president - nobody seems to dislike him beyond party allegience. 

im still waiting for anyone on the left to say why they like this guy so much. he's been rated A+ by some, but people refuse to say why.

Well, he votes with the Democratic position on almost every key vote (Supreme Court nominees, the Military Commissions Act, CAFTA, budget cuts, Bush tax cuts, path to citizenship, the marriage amendment, the flag-burning amendment, stem cell research, estate tax, the bankruptcy bill, and John Bolton, to name a few).  A possible misstep was the Oman Trade Agreement.  Then theres his political skill that even conservatives admire and seem to like. 

[sandman]

actually, obama has criticized the Dems for their stance on religion.

based on this thread, it appears obama stays away from the tough issues. no mention of the war on terror, iraq, afghanistan or social security.

anyone know where he stands on these issues? or what ideas he has to save social security?

[SLCPUNK]

based on this thread, it appears obama stays away from the tough issues. no mention of the war on terror, iraq, afghanistan or social security.

anyone know where he stands on these issues? or what ideas he has to save social security?

That's your problem. You don't look past the end of your nose, then attack what you don't know..............

Go read.

You are surfing the "internets" on the computer right now. On the "internets" is an amazing tool named "google", type his name in and see what pops up.

[Booker Floyd]

actually, obama has criticized the Dems for their stance on religion.

Yes, one of his shortcomings is his lame use of Democratic strawmen (particularly on religion) for centrist posturing that appeals to conservatives such as yourself. 

By the way, whats Democrats "stance" on religion?

based on this thread, it appears obama stays away from the tough issues. no mention of the war on terror, iraq, afghanistan or social security.

Or you just stay away from researching them. 

He rejects Bushs privatization plans.  He supports Byron Dorgans initiative to strengthen oversight of war contracts.  Those are some broad topics...Hes against terrorists and doesnt like whats happening in Iraq or Afghanistan.  You might want to add some nuance to the issues for more details.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Cant say Ive looked deep into what Obama's stance is on the issues. I tend to lean to the right on some things, but am not binded by any particular party.

But why not run? Hes pretty popular and not been in Washington long enough to be corrupted.

[sandman]

based on this thread, it appears obama stays away from the tough issues. no mention of the war on terror, iraq, afghanistan or social security.

anyone know where he stands on these issues? or what ideas he has to save social security?

That's your problem. You don't look past the end of your nose, then attack what you don't know..............

Go read.

You are surfing the "internets" on the computer right now. On the "internets" is an amazing tool named "google", type his name in and see what pops up.

i wish you were as funny as you think you are. at least then your posts would be interesting.

usually people post links and provide info in these threads, and i learn alot that way in a short amount of time. i like having you lefties do my research for me. that's working smarter, not harder.

but thanks for the heads up on google. i'll give it a try sometime. 

[sandman]

actually, obama has criticized the Dems for their stance on religion.

Yes, one of his shortcomings is his lame use of Democratic strawmen (particularly on religion) for centrist posturing that appeals to conservatives such as yourself.?

By the way, whats Democrats "stance" on religion?

based on this thread, it appears obama stays away from the tough issues. no mention of the war on terror, iraq, afghanistan or social security.

Or you just stay away from researching them.?

He rejects Bushs privatization plans.? He supports Byron Dorgans initiative to strengthen oversight of war contracts.? Those are some broad topics...Hes against terrorists and doesnt like whats happening in Iraq or Afghanistan.? You might want to add some nuance to the issues for more details.

booker - he's against bush's policies. no shit. i'm assuming you recognize that as left-wing "posturing"? 

i don't know the democrats stance on religion, but there is a percieved lack of respect towards people's religious views. and obama has a problem with that. right or wrong he thinks they need to address it. unless like you said, he is lying just to get votes.
 
he's against terrorists? wow. he's got my vote! 

what is he FOR?

[Booker Floyd]

booker - he's against bush's policies. no shit. i'm assuming you recognize that as left-wing "posturing"? 

You asked where he stood on social security, I answered (in part at least).  Posturing?  Thats doubtful since hes a Democrat (and not a nominal one like Ben Nelson) so he subscibes to most Democratic positions; no posturing is necessary. 

i don't know the democrats stance on religion

I suspected this, oddly enough.

but there is a percieved lack of respect towards people's religious views.

Based on what? 

Youre right, that perception does exist, but its a fallacy and is perpetuated by dim or dishonest conservatives.  In fact, the genuine lack of respect for religion comes from the right.

and obama has a problem with that. right or wrong he thinks they need to address it. unless like you said, he is lying just to get votes.

Hes either lying or hes wrong.  Then again, maybe my memory of the rhetoric in question is fuzzy.

he's against terrorists? wow. he's got my vote! 

I appreciate the behind-the-scenes look at a single Bush vote, but I think you missed the point.  You asked about ridiculously vague issue and got an appropriate answer.  If you ask about something more specific, you can either 1) look it up yourself or 2) have me look it up for you, which I dont really mind since I like discussing this stuff.  But asking "where does he stand on the war on terror" is pretty broad.

what is he FOR?

Preventing terrorism.   

[Surfrider]

based on this thread, it appears obama stays away from the tough issues. no mention of the war on terror, iraq, afghanistan or social security.

anyone know where he stands on these issues? or what ideas he has to save social security?

That's your problem. You don't look past the end of your nose, then attack what you don't know..............

Go read.

You are surfing the "internets" on the computer right now. On the "internets" is an amazing tool named "google", type his name in and see what pops up.

Just read the right stuff. 

[Z]

Far left or far right......they are essentially the same IMO.  Both unwilling to view things from the other side.  I don't see any growth in either.  Only battles.  Both sides would do well to compromise.

I was watching Oprah today.  Bill O' Reilly was on there.  He made sense.  Those in teh audience who spoke up opposing his views made sense.  None of us really know what the right answers.  I say the answer is somewhere in the middle of opposite views.  I say it will take a combined effort from us all to solve all major problems.

For those interested:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama


Reviewing Obama's career in the Illinois State Senate, commentators noted his ability to work effectively with both Democrats and Republicans, and to build coalitions.[15][16] In his subsequent campaign for the U.S. Senate, Obama won the endorsement of the Illinois Fraternal Order of Police, whose officials cited his "longtime support of gun control measures and his willingness to negotiate compromises", this despite his support for some bills that the police union had opposed.[17]


[edit] Keynote address
See also: 2004 Democratic National Convention
Midway through his campaign for U.S. Senator, Obama delivered the keynote address at the 2004 Democratic National Convention in Boston, Massachusetts.[18]

After describing his maternal grandfather's experiences as a World War II veteran and a beneficiary of the New Deal's FHA and GI Bill programs, Obama said:

No, people don't expect government to solve all their problems. But they sense, deep in their bones, that with just a slight change in priorities, we can make sure that every child in America has a decent shot at life, and that the doors of opportunity remain open to all. They know we can do better. And they want that choice.

Questioning the Bush administration's handling of the Iraq War, Obama spoke of an enlisted Marine, Corporal Seamus Ahern from East Moline, Illinois, asking, "Are we serving Seamus as well as he was serving us?" He continued:

When we send our young men and women into harm's way, we have a solemn obligation not to fudge the numbers or shade the truth about why they're going, to care for their families while they're gone, to tend to the soldiers upon their return, and to never ever go to war without enough troops to win the war, secure the peace, and earn the respect of the world.

Finally he spoke for national unity:

The pundits like to slice-and-dice our country into Red States and Blue States; Red States for Republicans, Blue States for Democrats. But I've got news for them, too. We worship an awesome God in the Blue States, and we don't like federal agents poking around our libraries in the Red States. We coach Little League in the Blue States and have gay friends in the Red States. There are patriots who opposed the war in Iraq and patriots who supported it. We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America.

[sandman]

booker - he's against bush's policies. no shit. i'm assuming you recognize that as left-wing "posturing"??

You asked where he stood on social security, I answered (in part at least).? Posturing?? Thats doubtful since hes a Democrat (and not a nominal one like Ben Nelson) so he subscibes to most Democratic positions; no posturing is necessary.?

i don't know the democrats stance on religion

I suspected this, oddly enough.

but there is a percieved lack of respect towards people's religious views.

Based on what??

Youre right, that perception does exist, but its a fallacy and is perpetuated by dim or dishonest conservatives.? In fact, the genuine lack of respect for religion comes from the right.

and obama has a problem with that. right or wrong he thinks they need to address it. unless like you said, he is lying just to get votes.

Hes either lying or hes wrong.? Then again, maybe my memory of the rhetoric in question is fuzzy.

he's against terrorists? wow. he's got my vote!?

I appreciate the behind-the-scenes look at a single Bush vote, but I think you missed the point.? You asked about ridiculously vague issue and got an appropriate answer.? If you ask about something more specific, you can either 1) look it up yourself or 2) have me look it up for you, which I dont really mind since I like discussing this stuff.? But asking "where does he stand on the war on terror" is pretty broad.

what is he FOR?

Preventing terrorism.? ?

hey booker - instead of bringing a cocky, smarter than you attitude, why don't you post something of substance. please enlighten me on the Dems stance on religion.

and politics is all about perception. that's all that matters. and if one of your top dogs believes there's a problem, there is.

war on terror is broad, but did he support the war in afghanistan? iraq? does he support the patriot act? these are the most critical issues and no one has said much about them.

but at least you stepped to the plate to say why you like this guy and what you know about him. i appreciate that. 

it's more than i can say for the lefties in these threads who claim to like this guy.   

[Booker Floyd]

hey booker - instead of bringing a cocky, smarter than you attitude

We disagree, because I think I have posted something of substance and illuminated some of you as to where Obama stands on some issues.  Conversely, I think youve taken a willfully ignorant, not-smart-enough attitude by alluding to some imaginary Democratic position on religion that you cant explain.  I dont feel obligated at all to enlighten you on the Democrats position on religion because unlike you, I never asserted they had one.  I only stated that nearly every Democrat I know of has been respectful of religion.  Youre welcome to prove otherwise, but considering your inability to explain their "position," I doubt that you will.

and politics is all about perception.

 

It is?  Maybe to you it is, but I think politics is a bit more meaningful than that. 

and if one of your top dogs believes there's a problem, there is.

That problem is with the perception some people have, not any Democratic position on religion.  And as Ive said, that perception is a fallacy perpetuated by the opposition and sometimes opportunistic Democrats eager to curry favor among "centrists" or conservatives.  Maybe youve read something Obama has said or written that details this so-called Democratic stance on religion - Id like to see it. 

war on terror is broad, but did he support the war in afghanistan? iraq? does he support the patriot act? these are the most critical issues and no one has said much about them.

He was elected in 2004, 3 years after the Afghanistan vote and 2 years after the Iraq one.  However its safe to assume he supported the war in Afghanistan and opposed invading Iraq.  He voted to reauthorize the PATRIOT Act.