Movie : 300 : This is going to hurt.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

we, then, agree

[25]

I'd like to raise a couple of points which may be worth thinking about if you're going to argue the political message of "300".

The comic book was originally published in 1998, in a rather different political climate.
It was largely inspired by the 1962 movie "The 300 Spartans".
The themes of the story are typical of Miller's work, from "Daredevil" to "Sin City" to the "Dark Knight" comics.
Frank Miller became much more of a loud-mouthed, heavy-handed ideologist around about the same time that many other average Americans did, September '01. Yet his most talked-about "political" work pre-dates 9/11. In fact, MIller's overt attempts at political commentary stem, by his own judgment, from reading galleys of "Watchmen," back in 1986.

I think that any attempt to analyze 300 as a political statement is severely lacking if all of the above factors are not taken into account.

As a secondary exercise, it might be enlightening to compare 300 to The 300 Spartans (recently re-released on dvd), to determine just how much of 300 is Miller's perspective and how much is just a half-remembered memory of a movie he saw as a child.

I'd leave the director of 300, Zack Snyder, out of the equation. I genuinely doubt that he has the capacity to recognize, nevermind instigate, any themes or ideas which aren't front-and-center of the piece. 

[Elrothiel]

Ehe, well i thank you for your answer,
but i was not waiting for a technical response on the different on the facts BUT more on what the "average movie goers" will feel when getting the story.

Ok the Persians were black and arabs.
But the way they are presented, the way their "side" fits with the current worlwide situations, incousciouly impact our average joe.

Give me this story, 300 year s ago, it will have a different importance.
Today, it has meanings, that are sneaky and political. Read the Frank Miller interview, he is hardcore.


Then on my "open questions" on American likin to portray themselves as the "weak rebels who fights for justice and protection of invasion" when they actually are the Big Empire who invades ...

it's an interesting one. it really shows how this country, socially, incousciously, does not want to be what they are. maybe.

(There are a lot of blue eyes in the movie, but again,these little details, act deeply in peoples visions to make them feel "at home" , visually and ideologically)

yeah, sorry for the fratboys stuff, never had any problem with them

WARNING! DRUNKEN POST AHEAD

Why do you care so much?

Besides, even if it WAS political...  does it matter? NO! What matters is whether you enjoy it or not. Fine if you do and fine if you don't, its a story. So what if it's been glamorized and glorified to be more suitable as a movie!? Its historical, and who bloody cares if it's inaccurate, because the more intellectual people who don't already know the real history will see the movie and think "hmm, this interests me, I'm going to find out more about it...".
The dumbasses who believe that's what really happened... they're just dumbasses.

People really need to quit being so damn sensitive about un-PC issues! Black is black and white is white and Arab is Arab. If I see a movie about Spartans vs Persians, I expect to see a bunch of mostly Greek-looking people fighting a bunch of mostly Persian-looking people. I don't want to see a bunch of white guys who all look the same fight each other. That is ignorant.
Just like if I see a movie about Aliens vs Predators. I expect to see Aliens fighting Predators. I don't want the director to make the Aliens prettier. I don't want him to make the Predators prettier either. I want to see butt-ugly extra terrestrials kicking the shit out of each other... doing what they do best, and doing it brutally with lots of blood and guts and gore!

So when I see a movie like 300, which is a WAR movie. I want to see a fucking WAR movie! In war, there are no good guys and no bad guys, they're all bad guys. They all kill, wound, maim. The only difference is the reason they're doing those things. The Persians want to conquer the Spartans so they can rule all of that area of the world.

You don't complain that William the Conqueror only won the Battle of Hastings because he shot King Harald in the eye with an arrow! But of course that happened in 1066, before the word "conspiracy" even meant anything remotely suspect.

Gaaaah Nowadays if William the Conqueror had done the same thing... there'd be an inquest into whether or not his actions were suitable and whether he should be put in jail or on death row...
Meanwhile, King Harald would be getting the best treatment in hospital, and although he'd end up with a glass eye, he'd also stay alive. He'd continue to be King, and history would change. We'd probably all be speaking a different language.


Quit your whining Wat-ever. "Wat-ever" you say, its still just a movie.

Fair enough, you didn't like it, but you were looking way too hard for political propaganda.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

I care, cause the movie is bad.
I care because we have enough shit on tv that dumb us down.

"I want a famous face" on MTV is harmless? i don't think so.

as 25 said, on 300

i agree these are universal themes that have been done to death in movies

but this movie stink of this disgusting mixture of extreme moral opinions, and on top of that, considering the moment we are in, the pseudo war the west is takin, it all takes a very bad taste.

but in the end, it all gets cristalysed because the movie is BAD.

[Jim]

You don't complain that William the Conqueror only won the Battle of Hastings because he shot King Harald in the eye with an arrow! But of course that happened in 1066, before the word "conspiracy" even meant anything remotely suspect.

Gaaaah Nowadays if William the Conqueror had done the same thing... there'd be an inquest into whether or not his actions were suitable and whether he should be put in jail or on death row...
Meanwhile, King Harald would be getting the best treatment in hospital, and although he'd end up with a glass eye, he'd also stay alive. He'd continue to be King, and history would change. We'd probably all be speaking a different language.

You what? Have you been drinking? What the bloody 'ell are you on about! Don't worry though, I get the irony!, incredible historical inaccuracy in a thread that, in part, discusses historical accuracy. I get it, I get it! Not sure if it was intentional, but still. The word, urm, tangent, springs to my mind.

But what I really came to this thread to say was, I'm seeing this movie tonight. Maybe.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

Conspiracy? William the Conqueror? I'm lost.

[Jim]

My point exactly.

[25]

The Persians want to conquer the Spartans so they can rule all of that area of the world.

Uh, no. The Persians invaded Greek territory for the purpose of razing Athens in retribution for the Athenians supporting rebels who attempted to raze a Persian city some time prior. If the Persians had wanted to annex the Greek Cities they could have done so, though retaining them would have required an act of genocide which simply wasn't the Persians' style.   

[Elrothiel]

You don't complain that William the Conqueror only won the Battle of Hastings because he shot King Harald in the eye with an arrow! But of course that happened in 1066, before the word "conspiracy" even meant anything remotely suspect.

Gaaaah Nowadays if William the Conqueror had done the same thing... there'd be an inquest into whether or not his actions were suitable and whether he should be put in jail or on death row...
Meanwhile, King Harald would be getting the best treatment in hospital, and although he'd end up with a glass eye, he'd also stay alive. He'd continue to be King, and history would change. We'd probably all be speaking a different language.

You what? Have you been drinking? What the bloody 'ell are you on about! Don't worry though, I get the irony!, incredible historical inaccuracy in a thread that, in part, discusses historical accuracy. I get it, I get it! Not sure if it was intentional, but still. The word, urm, tangent, springs to my mind.

But what I really came to this thread to say was, I'm seeing this movie tonight. Maybe.

I had been drinking actually... and it was 3:30AM when I posted that... so yes, I did go off on a bit of a tangent. Sorry...

The point I was trying to get across is the fact that we take everything the TINIEST bit political so seriously these days, and it is ruining our ability to enjoy certain things. Like movies.
That was the bit about William the Conqueror... although I'm not too sure about how a battle is as entertaining as a movie... :-/

I think its safe to say I shouldn't attempt to post long-ass intellectual rants in here when drunk, tired, and wearing a corset...

PS: 25, yea I was wrong, and I stand corrected.

[freedom78]

The Persians want to conquer the Spartans so they can rule all of that area of the world.

Uh, no. The Persians invaded Greek territory for the purpose of razing Athens in retribution for the Athenians supporting rebels who attempted to raze a Persian city some time prior. If the Persians had wanted to annex the Greek Cities they could have done so, though retaining them would have required an act of genocide which simply wasn't the Persians' style.   

It still comes back to Persia's desire to conquer, though.  They TOOK Greek (Athenian) colonies in Turkey...it wasn't as if those colonies said, "Hey, we'd really like to join the Persian empire!"

[25]

It still comes back to Persia's desire to conquer, though.  They TOOK Greek (Athenian) colonies in Turkey...it wasn't as if those colonies said, "Hey, we'd really like to join the Persian empire!"

True enough, but had Athens accepted their loses and moved on the Persians would have likely left them alone. The Athenians knew they were gambling with their lives by overtly supporting dissent against Persia and, in the end, were probably lucky that the Persians were sensible enough to recognize the Iraq-sized calamity that would have resulted from attempting to occupy the major Greek cities. I think the Athenians would have been better off leaving the Persians alone and instead addressing the looming threat of Sparta. Might have been a good idea.

[Izzy]

Wooo! America rocks, Iran is full of gays woooooooo!

There you go, 300 summarised in one line

300 is so dumb you stay long into the end credits looking for the name ''Michael Bay'' to appear....

''now remember men, we must all die in battle because i dont have the guts just to give the Persians the superficial compliments they ask for!''

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

i wouldnt care if the movie came out at another time, but it really is TOO tied with current news and politics, and smells right wing ideology like nothing else.

and it's a bad movie.

the trailer was awesome, the movie is badly cut, badly edited, slow, pace is unbalanced, repetitive ... i didnt ask for Bergman's but come on ....

[Danny Top Hat]

I just watched 300 Spartians - that was quite good.


This thread is fun.  It's making me really wanna watch this film.

[Izzy]

I just watched 300 Spartians - that was quite good.


This thread is fun.? It's making me really wanna watch this film.

I'm sure you'll love it

you can play games like:

''how many times is the Spartan king compared to Jesus?''

''how many times can the Spartan army be comapred to the 'brave' US heros fighting 'mysticism' (islam) and 'tyranny' (Iran)?''

USA! USA! USA! USA!

[Elrothiel]

Puh-lease. 300 doesn't even touch on any modern political subject! Its Spartans vs Persians. Xerxes, who is an egomaniacal asshole who thinks he's God wants to add Sparta to his list of "Countries I Have Conquered Before The Age Of 30", and turn all the women and children into his slaves, and Sparta; a free area, obviously don't want to give up their freedom.

Yea, I realize the ties between the words "freedom" and "America", but that really has nothing to do with comparing Sparta and America.

Fuck this political bullshit. Its only entertainment for fuck's sake! Leave the assholish political bullshit to the side, it has nothing to do with this film!

Have fun with your conspiring bullshitism, but don't try and get me to believe you. I don't see the ties, and I'm not buying your views.

Wat-ever, Izzy, you two are paranoid and you'd probably even try to spread your politicism all over the least threatening of movies... like Toy Story or something equally kiddie, and then you'd accuse the movie-makers of attempting to brainwash the children into being "pro-America".

There's too much bullshit and paranoia around these days anyway! Can't you just drop it and leave it alone!? At this rate, the only movies you'll enjoy will be Michael Moore style "anti-propaganda" movies, or conspiracy movies on YouTube about how 9/11 was all at Bush's hand... Who cares who's fault it was!? It happened and that's bad enough!! Its fucking terrible! But there's no point in pointing the blame at the easiest target because its not going to change what happened!

For fuck's sake. Quit picking at everything! Why make yourself and other's miserable? Enjoy your life, don't try and find fault with everything! Life ain't perfect, but you gotta make do with what you got!


On a MUCH lighter note... I enjoyed 300 a LOT, and the end made me cry. It was also very eye-pleasing indeed seeing all those ripped abdominal muscles....
On a more critique-ish note... I thought it was all very well choreographed, the fight scenes were fantastic (especially the part where Stelios and Astinos were fighting together... probably because Michael Fassbender and Tom Wisdom are both incredibly sexy men... ), and the design of the whole thing was astonishing, especially the Persian character design. The Immortals were scary, and Xerxes... although he looked totally gay... I don't think he was meant to be. He was just meant to look excessive... like a man who thinks he's God should look. Can't believe how tall he was though! If I stood next to him, my head would be level with his waist most likely...

[Prometheus]

i thought the movie was rather good.... i went expecting a blood bath and boobs...... and i got that.... not enough boobs but i got it all the same.

SG..... though i did grasp most of your drunken rant.... it was a drunken rant... lol... but there is one thing that i ahve realised here is that there are people that will pick a fight cause the sky is blue.... not simplr because its blue but because of the shade of blue.


The thing i find funny is how because of ones education makes one no longer able to just sit and watch a movie but they have to dig through every bit of the movie and say hey because of howmany spears/arrpws are used refers to the use of bullets that kills innocent peole that have not be born......

dont make sence.... no....


people should just fuck off and enjoy a movie for being a movie and not what you want to make of it

[Elrothiel]

i thought the movie was rather good.... i went expecting a blood bath and boobs...... and i got that.... not enough boobs but i got it all the same.

SG..... though i did grasp most of your drunken rant.... it was a drunken rant... lol... but there is one thing that i ahve realised here is that there are people that will pick a fight cause the sky is blue.... not simplr because its blue but because of the shade of blue.


The thing i find funny is how because of ones education makes one no longer able to just sit and watch a movie but they have to dig through every bit of the movie and say hey because of howmany spears/arrpws are used refers to the use of bullets that kills innocent peole that have not be born......

dont make sence.... no....


people should just fuck off and enjoy a movie for being a movie and not what you want to make of it

That's what I was trying to say!

thanks for shortening my entire drunken rant into one sentence!

As for the "shade of blue" thing... if they used a certain shade of blue in a movie, people would go "Oh, but that's political because its the same shade of blue that they use as the background for the stars on the US flag!! NERRR!"

... and I can feel this is gunna turn into another long-ass rant. I'm not drunk, but I think perhaps this issue irritates me so much that I can't help BUT rant... drunk or not drunk, it doesn't matter, I'm still gunna rant because of the patheticness of SOME people!!

I'll stop myself this time. I'm sure y'all don't want to read YET ANOTHER one.

[Jim]

Wooo! America rocks, Iran is full of gays woooooooo!

There you go, 300 summarised in one line

300 is so dumb you stay long into the end credits looking for the name ''Michael Bay'' to appear....

''now remember men, we must all die in battle because i dont have the guts just to give the Persians the superficial compliments they ask for!''

Spoken like a true conservative.

i wouldnt care if the movie came out at another time, but it really is TOO tied with current news and politics, and smells right wing ideology like nothing else.

Nah.

I thought the movie was alright. I didn't know that Dominic West was going to make an appearance though, that was a suprise. One of the complaints that I've seen here and there was the overuse of slow motion. Fair enough, there were a fair few instances when it wasn't needed, but there were also a lot of times when it was. Battle scenes, especially, otherwise you end up with choppy shit like Braveheart.

[freedom78]

One of the complaints that I've seen here and there was the overuse of slow motion. Fair enough, there were a fair few instances when it wasn't needed, but there were also a lot of times when it was. Battle scenes, especially, otherwise you end up with choppy shit like Braveheart.

Hmm...interesting take.  I saw a show on the Discovery or History channel about the making of the film, and here's their reasoning for the slow motion.

Because Spartans train their entire lives for war, in a battle situation their preparedness would make it seem as though the battle slows down from its frenetic pace.  Without that context, however, I can see why it would be annoying. 

Braveheart, on the other hand, seems intent on showing that frenetic pace and the battlefield chaos or medieval warfare.  Since the battles are supplemental to the actual story, it's appropriate that they don't make up the bulk of the film.  In 300, though, the battle IS the story.