'Sicko' Shows Michael Moore's Maturity as a Filmmaker

[Drew]

At least the people can make the government accountable for a poor health system.

You mean like the government has been held accountable for the awful shape that our Social Security is in? That accountability has not done any good at all.

Social Security has been pissed away!

[stolat]

Well then the onus is on a better government to learn from those mistakes and come up with a sustainable solution.

Democracy is a work in progress.

There are other countries with way worse of heathcare systems in place, if any at all.....

[Drew]

And that's why I don't think a government controlled health care is anything good to have. It would be screwed to crap just like Welfare and Social Security and all the other givernment controlled programs.

[stolat]

In Australia, I have found that many of our public assests (eg. telephone co) that have been sold off by the current government are not run as efficiently. Things are even run off shore........lots of corners are cut.....profit is the only aim.

[SLCPUNK]

I mean, they done such a great job with social security and other programs haven't they? 

Social security is fine. The fact that it is "ending" is another Bush lie.

You guys crack me up. On one hand we should never question our government and back them when they occupy countries and slaughter hundreds of thousands of it's citizens. On the other you blast them for their inability to run things and scream "Do you trust these people here?" Which one is it?

Why are you all so afraid of health care for all in this country? Why do you ignore our enormous health problem we have now? Michael Moore is the problem? LOL, ok buddy!

[Drew]

Social security is fine. The fact that it is "ending" is another Bush lie.

You guys crack me up. On one hand we should never question our government and back them when they occupy countries and slaughter hundreds of thousands of it's citizens. On the other you blast them for their inability to run things and scream "Do you trust these people here?" Which one is it?

Why are you all so afraid of health care for all in this country? Why do you ignore our enormous health problem we have now? Michael Moore is the problem? LOL, ok buddy!

I don't believe I will ever see a penny of my Social Security. It's not just Bush saying it's going to dry up either.

And I have never said anything about not questioning the government. It's not that I trust everything about the government either. I believe that can do good in some places and not in others. I do not want them to have control of my health care. It would be a disaster.

Michael Moore is a prime example of what's wrong with our health care system now. Look at him, he's obese as he could be. It's over weight people, people who smoke, people who don't work that make health care so high for everyone else. That's why rates are so high because the people who do work and  have medical insurace are not only paying for themselves but paying for high rates for people like the Michael Moore's of this country.

I do not want the goverment in control of what doctor I want to see and when I can see them.

[SLCPUNK]

I don't believe I will ever see a penny of my Social Security. It's not just Bush saying it's going to dry up either.

You also believed in WMD, and you also bought Bush's medicare bill that ripped off our seniors while making a fortune for big pharma.

Bush is saying it, conservative think tanks are saying it, while Wall Street and corporate media are fucking loving it, but it's not true. Don't continue to be a sucker.

All you have to do is read the Social Security trustees' report and see he is lying.

I do not want the goverment in control of what doctor I want to see and when I can see them.

What do you think our health care system does now?

[Drew]

What do you think our health care system does now?

It's not controlling what doctor I see. I can see the doctor I want to, and see them when I want to as well. I do not have to be put on any kind of waiting list. If I want to schedule a surgery I can have the surgery done in a pretty short time and not have to wait some crazy time period like a year or so. Int this case, I can determine when I want to have a operation done. When the time is good for me not the governments.

i can't predict the future so I cannot say for sure regarding the Social Security. But I don't have a good feeling that I'll ever see a penny.

[SLCPUNK]

What do you think our health care system does now?

It's not controlling what doctor I see. I can see the doctor I want to, and see them when I want to as well. I do not have to be put on any kind of waiting list. If I want to schedule a surgery I can have the surgery done in a pretty short time and not have to wait some crazy time period like a year or so. Int this case, I can determine when I want to have a operation done. When the time is good for me not the governments.

i can't predict the future so I cannot say for sure regarding the Social Security. But I don't have a good feeling that I'll ever see a penny.

Of course it does. In an HMO you have to see the doctor in their network. If you go "out of network" you pay for it!

You wait to see a primary doc at least a month and a specialist can be even more. A surgery is usually scheduled a month or so out, but as our Canadian posters said so are theirs. You do not determine when your surgery is performed here in America. They tell you and then you come to an agreement with the days they provide you. Of course there is no promise that an HMO will pay your claim, and in the end while laying in bed the bills may come flowing in.

True economic data shows us that social security will be fine-it has nothing to do with "predicting the future" on a whim. But of course you welcome to believe Bush instead, as he has a sterling record of honesty and leadership.

[Drew]

Of course it does. In an HMO you have to see the doctor in their network. If you go "out of network" you pay for it!

The network is a much better list of doctors though. Wouldn't you agree? I wouldn't want the government to tell me where I can go and when I could have surgery. I want it to be at my own convenience. I do not want the government to assign me to a doctor.

[SLCPUNK]

The network is a much better list of doctors though. Wouldn't you agree? I wouldn't want the government to tell me where I can go and when I could have surgery. I want it to be at my own convenience. I do not want the government to assign me to a doctor.

How would you know? What is the difference? I have a list of doctors either way.

I can only have surgery in my network, which is a group of doctors that a private company motivated by profit have chosen for me. Why is that any better than a government "telling" me where to go? My HMO already "tells" me where to go to have surgery now. I pay to have limited choice of a group of doctors, if I don't like them, I can go out of network but it will cost me tons of money out of pocket to do so.

I don't really see your argument.

Did you read any of the posts from the Canadian posters here?

Waiting, choosing doctors etc, are not my concerns here. My concern is that all Americans get health care (which I see as a basic human right) and not worry about financial ruin because of it. Would you not agree with that?

[Drew]

Waiting, choosing doctors etc, are not my concerns here. My concern is that all Americans get health care (which I see as a basic human right) and not worry about financial ruin because of it. Would you not agree with that?

There not your concern but they are my concern. I just don't want the government to take control and let it be abused like welfare is abused by so many.

[SLCPUNK]

There not your concern but they are my concern. I just don't want the government to take control and let it be abused like welfare is abused by so many.

It's not my concern because based on what our Canadians forum members say, their waits are no more or less than our waits here.

People will abuse any system, be it private sector or government. Should the small instances of abuse be a reason to deny all Americans for health care?

You are aware that most of the "welfare" that gets abused is corporate welfare? The billion dollar companies who wiggle their way out of paying their fair share of taxes. They steal more from us then any "welfare momma" ever could dream of.

[Drew]

It's not my concern because based on what our Canadians forum members say, their waits are no more or less than our waits here.

People will abuse any system, be it private sector or government. Should the small instances of abuse be a reason to deny all Americans for health care?

I've read some articles directly from Canada media saying a little different about the problems and wait time with their universal health care program.

Abuses can't be just thrown to the wayside and saying well it happens everywhere. It needs to be stopped. If somehow we could be sure that it would be stopped and that you could chose any doctor you wanted to and no one has to sit around for a year for surgery or atleast an initial visit, than maybe just maybe I could see the benefit in letting the government manage my health care. But I don't have faith in the government managing my health at all.

[25]

If somehow we could be sure that it would be stopped and that you could chose any doctor you wanted to and no one has to sit around for a year for surgery or atleast an initial visit, than maybe just maybe I could see the benefit in letting the government manage my health care.

You're clearly oblivious to the fact that even with universal healthcare provided by the government you always have the option to choose your own doctor and you always have the option to skip waiting lines by getting healthcare insurance yourself and seeking your own treatment ("going private") just as you do now. Even in a government-run system you'd be able to keep your current insurer and their coverage whilst also receiving free government healthcare.

[SLCPUNK]

Abuses can't be just thrown to the wayside and saying well it happens everywhere. It needs to be stopped. If somehow we could be sure that it would be stopped and that you could chose any doctor you wanted to and no one has to sit around for a year for surgery or atleast an initial visit, than maybe just maybe I could see the benefit in letting the government manage my health care. But I don't have faith in the government managing my health at all.

But by your own logic we should not implement a social program because it may be abused. Should we then get rid of emergency call centers? Firefighters? Policemen? Social Security? Welfare for the poor? And so on, because it will be abused?

Abuse does happen, but we are not talking about how to cure abuse. I am replying to your statement which claims social medicine will not work because of the supposed abuse that will take place.

You do however have faith that the private sector has your health care in it's best interest huh? Answer me that one at least.

[Drew]

But by your own logic we should not implement a social program because it may be abused. Should we then get rid of emergency call centers? Firefighters? Policemen? Social Security? Welfare for the poor? And so on, because it will be abused?

No. I think the emergency call centers, policemen, firefighters do a great job an are not prone to abuse as easily as others. I don't mind helping the ones who are really in need of welfare but the ones that are just lazy and abuse the system just sicken me. If you keep coming up with more and more programs to help people, this country is going to always rely on the government to help them or fix their problems. When I talk about abuse, I focus more on the individual who is the deadbeat and too lazy and will take every free penny he can from the government. i don't mind assistance to the ones that are deserving and really need the help.

You do however have faith that the private sector has your health care in it's best interest huh? Answer me that one at least.

Probably not. But I do not want the government in control of my health care. I'd rather have the government oversee the corporations who abuse the system.

[sandman]

i agree. and i haven't argued what you accuse me of.

but you're trying to simplify a very complicated issue.

Do you mean that you haven't argued that it's a bad system?? Perhaps you haven't said it as such, but as you keep offering up evidence of its failures, I did draw that conclusion.? You're a confounding person, sandman (take that as a compliment).? You offer up moderately conservative views, yet claim to be leaning toward Hillary (I THINK that was you? ).? You give evidence of Canadian healthcare failures, but don't think it's bad.? ? ? ? ?

But I don't mean to oversimplify!? I'm no healthcare expert, by any stretch, but I certainly realize that this is an enormous problem which may require a complex solution.? But I do think it's simple to look at the state of American healthcare and to say that there is a problem.?

thanks for the compliment. and i agree 100% with your last statement. i'm just not convinced canada's system is the answer. it's gonna take a little more than a couple people posting on a gnr message board to convince me a socialist system for health care is better. i post the negative stories to make it clear that other systems have problems too.

i think our system offers benefits that other do not, and our problems are fixable. but as i've said before, i have an open mind.

but remember, our government has the responsibility of regulating all insurance companies. and how's that process working out? not good. in fact, it's a joke. practically a scam.

[SLCPUNK]

An Open Letter to CNN from Michael Moore

Dear CNN,

Well, the week is over -- and still no apology, no retraction, no correction of your glaring mistakes.

I bet you thought my dust-up with Wolf Blitzer was just a cool ratings coup, that you really wouldn't have to correct the false statements you made about "Sicko." I bet you thought I was just going to go quietly away.

Think again. I'm about to become your worst nightmare. 'Cause I ain't ever going away. Not until you set the record straight, and apologize to your viewers. "The Most Trusted Name in News?" I think it's safe to say you can retire that slogan.

You have an occasional segment called "Keeping Them Honest." But who keeps you honest? After what the public saw with your report on "Sicko," and how many inaccuracies that report contained, how can anyone believe anything you say on your network? In the old days, before the Internet, you could get away with it. Your victims had no way to set the record straight, to show the viewers how you had misrepresented the truth. But now, we can post the truth -- and back it up with evidence and facts -- on the web, for all to see. And boy, judging from the mail both you and I have been receiving, the evidence I have posted on my site about your "Sicko" piece has led millions now to question your honesty.

I won't waste your time rehashing your errors. You know what they are. What I want to do is help you come clean. Admit you were wrong. What is the shame in that? We all make mistakes. I know it's hard to admit it when you've screwed up, but it's also liberating and cathartic. It not only makes you a better person, it helps prevent you from screwing up again. Imagine how many people will be drawn to a network that says, "We made a mistake. We're human. We're sorry. We will make mistakes in the future -- but we will always correct them so that you know you can trust us." Now, how hard would that really be?

As you know, I hold no personal animosity against you or any of your staff. You and your parent company have been very good to me over the years. You distributed my first film, "Roger & Me" and you published "Dude, Where's My Country?" Larry King has had me on twice in the last two weeks. I couldn't ask for better treatment.

That's why I was so stunned when you let a doctor who knows a lot about brain surgery -- but apparently very little about public policy -- do a "fact check" story, not on the medical issues in "Sicko," but rather on the economic and political information in the film. Is this why there has been a delay in your apology, because you are trying to get a DOCTOR to say he was wrong? Please tell him not to worry, no one is filing a malpractice claim against him. Dr. Gupta does excellent and compassionate stories on CNN about people's health and how we can take better care of ourselves. But when it came time to discuss universal health care, he rushed together a bunch of sloppy -- and old -- research. When his producer called us about his report the day before it aired, we sent to her, in an email, all the evidence so that he wouldn't make any mistakes on air. He chose to ignore ALL the evidence, and ran with all his falsehoods -- even though he had been given the facts a full day before! How could that happen? And now, for 5 days, I have posted on my website, for all to see, every mistake and error he made.

You, on the other hand, in the face of this overwhelming evidence and a huge public backlash, have chosen to remain silent, probably praying and hoping this will all go away.

Well it isn't. We are now going to start looking into the veracity of other reports you have aired on other topics. Nothing you say now can be believed. In 2002, the New York Times busted you for bringing celebrities on your shows and not telling your viewers they were paid spokespeople for the pharmaceutical companies. You promised never to do it again. But there you were, in 2005, talking to Joe Theismann, on air, as he pushed some drug company-sponsored website on prostate health. You said nothing about about his affiliation with GlaxoSmithKline.

Clearly, no one is keeping you honest, so I guess I'm going to have to do that job, too. $1.5 billion is spent each year by the drug companies on ads on CNN and the other four networks. I'm sure that has nothing to do with any of this. After all, if someone gave me $1.5 billion, I have to admit, I might say a kind word or two about them. Who wouldn't?!

I expect CNN to put this matter to rest. Say you're sorry and correct your story -- like any good journalist would.

Then we can get back to more important things. Like a REAL discussion about our broken health care system. Everything else is a distraction from what really matters.

Yours,
Michael Moore
mmflint@aol.com
www.michaelmoore.com

P.S. If you also want to apologize for not doing your job at the start of the Iraq War, I'm sure most Americans would be very happy to accept your apology. You and the other networks were willing partners with Bush, flying flags all over the TV screens and never asking the hard questions that you should have asked. You might have prevented a war. You might have saved the lives of those 3,610 soldiers who are no longer with us. Instead, you blew air kisses at a commander in chief who clearly was making it all up. Millions of us knew that -- why didn't you? I think you did. And, in my opinion, that makes you responsible for this war. Instead of doing the job the founding fathers wanted you to do -- keeping those in power honest (that's why they made it the FIRST amendment) -- you and much of the media went on the attack against the few public figures like myself who dared to question the nightmare we were about to enter. You've never thanked me or the Dixie Chicks or Al Gore for doing your job for you. That's OK. Just tell the truth from this point on.

[SLCPUNK]

There is still triumph left in this world, and Michael Moore delivers a documentary about the healthcare industry that leaves the mind reeling and stinging

By Tim King / Salem-News

SALEM, Ore. - As Americans die in increasing numbers through the greed of hospitals, healthcare organizations and insurance companies, it adds insult to injury to learn that our lifespan in the states is less than many third world countries.

As our nation struggles in a desperate search for answers, those at the root of the problem do nothing to help. They should be more than embarrassed, and we should be more than angry.

Billions of dollars are flowing into the pockets of the richest CEO's and shareholders pockets as Americans die needless and avoidable deaths. All because our national priorities are exclusively money driven.

As our country descends the ladder of health, enter Michael Moore and "Sicko."

When I watched this documentary for the first time, I was forced to think about my own recent situation in Afghanistan, where I covered the war for two months last winter with a hernia belt holding me together.

I just read a passage about a Las Vegas Vietnam Vet named Mike; "a man with a razor blade scar and a sharp sense of humor," who was found dead in a ditch along the railroad tracks, dead from a gastrointestinal hemorrhage.

Author Matthew O?Brien of "Beneath the Neon" concludes that paragraph with, "I guess he never had hernia surgery. No insurance, no hospital bed."

That is how America treats its vets. They die in agony on the roadside because they don't have health insurance.

So there I was last November, on the verge of shipping overseas to cover my first war. I had to receive a thousand dollars worth of shots, and I had a severe hernia in what one nurse called ?the lower 40.?

I understand lower hernias are fairly dangerous. If it goes, the owner usually goes with it, unless a hospital is very close by. Of course it would also have to be a hospital that accepted a patient without insurance, and those seem to be disappearing in this country.

I tried to work out a plan with my local hospital in Salem; they said they would be happy to arrange the surgery, as long as I could pay the bill on the spot for it. Everyone packs a few thousand bucks around, right? It isn?t like the economy is sagging or anything like that.

Besides, it is hard and expensive to own and operate your own groundbreaking media business, the only independent Internet news site in America, and some expenses like the $1,000+ a month insurance premium are just not on the radar right now. Certainly some will fault me, we are all supposed to be able to pay our own way, but the costs for a hernia surgery are out of line in this country.

I think that attitude about money and health care that I found at Salem, Oregon's hospital, is exactly what Moore is talking about in Sicko. We have dropped to a point where healthcare is only a business in this country; the heart was removed from it long ago.

That is not to say that there aren?t dedicated professionals because there are, but far more seem to be in it for the pay and the golfing.

I went to the war carrying about 120 pounds of gear. The kidney belt worked remarkably well, and I was able to always tighten it just a little more when necessary to put my hernia back inside the old lower stomach wall.

So at the end of my story about hernias and war, a $15 kidney belt from Ebay was the saving grace. I had far better things to say about that Internet commerce group at the time than my local hospital, that?s for sure.

At the time, I was the only staff reporter from any Oregon media organization who was covering, or willing to cover the troops. A reporter affiliated with KGW was in another part of Afghanistan at the time covering Canadian military operations. It seemed important to at least 900 Oregon families.

I admit that when I approached the hospital I naively thought they would be easy to work with, since I was heading out to cover the 900 Oregon combat troops in Afghanistan.

I figured I would get the surgery and make payments, it seemed reasonable at the time. But that is not the reality of people without insurance in the U.S.A. Instead, I was simply told ?no.? Even though I was heading to a combat zone, Salem Hospital could not even consider letting me get the surgery and deal with payment later.

I thought about this hospital one day when I tried to jump aboard an Army CH-47 helicopter at Gardez, Afghanistan, loaded with Afghan combat soldiers on a mission. I didn?t have the strength or stamina to make that last step up the load ramp with all my gear. Two soldiers saw what was going on and they quickly helped me get my stuff aboard. I think I did very well overall, covering a war with a bulging hernia in my abdomen.

I tried to figure out why Moore?s disputed new movie made me so emotional, almost distraught, and then I connected the things I am writing about right now. My own misery at war with a hernia, the denial of the surgery, and the general fear of dying in combat, it all takes a toll; but the story about the Vietnam vet dying because he couldn?t have a routine surgery for a hernia was the true catalyst.

It is noteworthy that Sicko is not a George W. Bush bash-a-thon. It is a movie that grabs your heart and does things that you would never imagine.

The health management organizations like Kaiser Permanente are Moore?s enemies, and the pharmaceutical groups that are raping America in terms of costs, especially our senior citizens. Moore has the courage to call it what it is.

I take it his detractors on this one are all in favor of HMO?s and the pharmaceutical companies.

There is still triumph left in this world, and Michael Moore delivers a documentary about the healthcare industry that leaves the mind reeling and stinging.

In the end, Moore writes a $12,000.00 check to the man who maintains the largest anti-Michael Moore Website in America. It seems the man?s wife is gravely ill, and he had to choose between her health and his anti-Moore Website. He chose his wife.

Michael Moore said that didn?t seem fair or right, and then anonymously gave him the funds to get that anti-Michael Moore Website back on the air.

Top that.