2008 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[sandman]

from USAtoday.com...

Evolution of the steroid policy

2002

? Before 2002, Major League Baseball had no official policy on steroid use among players. As part of a collective bargaining agreement, players and owners agree to hold survey testing in 2003. If more than 5% of results from the anonymous tests are positive, formal testing and penalties will be put into place the next year.

2003

? Baseball announces after the season that 5% to 7% of test results were positive, triggering the new policy in 2004.

2004

? Each player is tested once a year in season. A first positive test results in treatment, followed by a 15-day suspension for a second positive and up to a year suspension for a fifth positive. The result is no player is suspended for steroid use.

2005

? Baseball agrees to a new policy. Banned substances include steroids, steroid precursors, designer steroids, masking agents and diuretics. There will be one unannounced mandatory test of each player during the season. In addition, there will be testing of randomly selected players, with no maximum number. And there will be random testing during the offseason. The penalties for a positive result are, first positive, 10 days; second, 30 days; third, 60 days; fourth, one year, and all without pay.

Baseball's new steroid policy

Banned substances

? Steroids, steroid precursors and designer steroids, as well as masking agents and diuretics.

[faldor]

Clemens files defamation lawsuit against ex-trainer McNamee

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3184646

Not sure what to make of this.  I still don't believe Clemens at all, but if he IS indeed innocent, this is the move to make in my mind.

[The Dog]

Clemens files defamation lawsuit against ex-trainer McNamee

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3184646

Not sure what to make of this.  I still don't believe Clemens at all, but if he IS indeed innocent, this is the move to make in my mind.

i really don't know what to believe anymore.  amazing how easily influenced one can become by the media.

[freedom78]

Clemens files defamation lawsuit against ex-trainer McNamee

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3184646

Not sure what to make of this.  I still don't believe Clemens at all, but if he IS indeed innocent, this is the move to make in my mind.

i really don't know what to believe anymore.  amazing how easily influenced one can become by the media.

I don't know that it's media influence on our opinions as much as an increase in the belief that we should have access to all truth, everywhere.  Of course, either the trainer or Clemens is lying/completely mistaken.  I don't claim to know which is true.  But the 24 hour news cycle feeds a NEED to know these things, and the net feeds our ability to get an opinion from any Joe Schmo, and to give one as well. 

I can't tell you how long I had been watching MSNBC today before I started thinking "show me some fucking new New Hampshire poll numbers, already!"  It's insane.  Sometimes we just need to step back a moment.  The truth is what it is, whether I know it or not, and my knowledge of these issues which I don't really affect is fairly unimportant in the grand scheme (or even in one of the little schemes).

[tim_m]

Clemens files defamation lawsuit against ex-trainer McNamee

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3184646

Not sure what to make of this.? I still don't believe Clemens at all, but if he IS indeed innocent, this is the move to make in my mind.

I agree cause people will think why would he fight it so hard if he's not innocent and be more likely to believe he is imo.

[faldor]

Clemens files defamation lawsuit against ex-trainer McNamee

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3184646

Not sure what to make of this.? I still don't believe Clemens at all, but if he IS indeed innocent, this is the move to make in my mind.

I agree cause people will think why would he fight it so hard if he's not innocent and be more likely to believe he is imo.

Yeah he says he's ready and willing to go in front of congress and answer whatever questions they may have for him.  In other words, not take the McGwire, Sosa route.  I give him some props for that.  If he is really guilty, he has balls of steel.  Although Palmeiro lied in front of congress, I just don't know what to believe.  I do know that that phone call they played at the press conference did absolultely nothing for either side.  Both parties were SO careful in what they were saying/not saying.  That's 17 minutes of my life that could've been much better spent.

[tim_m]

Clemens files defamation lawsuit against ex-trainer McNamee

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3184646

Not sure what to make of this.? I still don't believe Clemens at all, but if he IS indeed innocent, this is the move to make in my mind.

I agree cause people will think why would he fight it so hard if he's not innocent and be more likely to believe he is imo.

Yeah he says he's ready and willing to go in front of congress and answer whatever questions they may have for him.? In other words, not take the McGwire, Sosa route.? I give him some props for that.? If he is really guilty, he has balls of steel.? Although Palmeiro lied in front of congress, I just don't know what to believe.? I do know that that phone call they played at the press conference did absolultely nothing for either side.? Both parties were SO careful in what they were saying/not saying.? That's 17 minutes of my life that could've been much better spent.

I meant to listen to that at espn.com but i completely forgot. Sounds like its not worth it though.

[faldor]

Clemens files defamation lawsuit against ex-trainer McNamee

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3184646

Not sure what to make of this.? I still don't believe Clemens at all, but if he IS indeed innocent, this is the move to make in my mind.

I agree cause people will think why would he fight it so hard if he's not innocent and be more likely to believe he is imo.

Yeah he says he's ready and willing to go in front of congress and answer whatever questions they may have for him.? In other words, not take the McGwire, Sosa route.? I give him some props for that.? If he is really guilty, he has balls of steel.? Although Palmeiro lied in front of congress, I just don't know what to believe.? I do know that that phone call they played at the press conference did absolultely nothing for either side.? Both parties were SO careful in what they were saying/not saying.? That's 17 minutes of my life that could've been much better spent.

I meant to listen to that at espn.com but i completely forgot. Sounds like its not worth it though.

Nah, it's really not.  McNamee asks Clemens 100 times "What do you want me to do?"  And Clemens never responds "I want you to admit you're lying" or anything along those lines.  He gives a vague, "I want someone to tell the truth".  And Clemens does deny any wrongdoing but McNamee never says anything to the contrary.  It really didn't do anything for either side, in my mind.

[C0ma]

It's a pretty piss poor exlination, but I was watching ESPN last night an they were saying that the reason Clemens didn't press him to "Tell the Trutch" or "Admit you were lying" is because it could be viewed as witness tampering and intimidation. Their goal was to get him to give something up without asking for it... It seems like they think they got that.

[D]

I definitely think Clemens is innocent.


To get out of jailtime McNamee had to deliver something big. The info he gave wasn't worthy of him not getting jail time.

He panicked and turned in Roger who I believe is completely innocent.


Why would Roger only take steroids those two seasons and no others?

it makes no sense.


Roger's stats didnt jump either. He did great things for a long time but I believe with the pitcher friendly Houston ballpark and hardwork he could pull off what he did.


its not like he was still throwing 98MPH.


Tom Glavine and Greg Maddux are still able to get hitters out in their 40's and to me, if u watch Roger, u can see the subtle declines in his ability, its just he had so much he is still able to pitch well.


After hearing all the evidence *SOMETHING I BELIEVE EVERYONE SHOULD DO BEFORE JUDGING* I am now starting to believe Roger.

[COMAMOTIVE]

I'm not sure what to make of this now. When I first heard the Mitchell report, I was not surprised to hear Clemens' association with Roids.

But then he goes on TV a couple of times, and you've gotta wonder what the hell is he thinking if he is in fact guilty?  Is it worth all of these headaches, just to protect his legacy?  I mean, he's gonna get in the HOF anyways, I think. He was pretty dominant before the roids accusations.

That fucking phone call he played was suspicious. Why did'nt he just say to Macnamee " Why did you lie"  " Can you tell them I never took a roid in your presence? "   

I'm at a loss on what to think, honestly.

[freedom78]

Goose got called to the Hall!  One season, but always nice to see a former Cub get in.

Jim Rice came up short...REALLY close.  But next year is his last of eligibility, and guaranteed HOFer Rickey Henderson will be on the ballot...and you know how those HOF voters are about shit like that.

Hawk once again denied. 

[faldor]

Goose got called to the Hall!? One season, but always nice to see a former Cub get in.

Jim Rice came up short...REALLY close.? But next year is his last of eligibility, and guaranteed HOFer Rickey Henderson will be on the ballot...and you know how those HOF voters are about shit like that.

Hawk once again denied.?

Yeah, poo Rice.  Just 16 votes shy.  Unless voters feel some remorse in his final year on the ballot, I doubt he'll get in.  He'll have to wait for the Veteran's Committee.  Unfortunately his career numbers don't blow you away, but he was dominant for a 12 year period (75-86) and probably the 3rd best hitter during that time after Mike Schmidt and George Brett.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Goose got called to the Hall!? One season, but always nice to see a former Cub get in.

Jim Rice came up short...REALLY close.? But next year is his last of eligibility, and guaranteed HOFer Rickey Henderson will be on the ballot...and you know how those HOF voters are about shit like that.

Hawk once again denied.?

Yeah, poo Rice.? Just 16 votes shy.? Unless voters feel some remorse in his final year on the ballot, I doubt he'll get in.? He'll have to wait for the Veteran's Committee.? Unfortunately his career numbers don't blow you away, but he was dominant for a 12 year period (75-86) and probably the 3rd best hitter during that time after Mike Schmidt and George Brett.

Keeping Jim Rice out of the Hall is part of why baseball is a joke.  He played in a relatively dead-ball era.  Some writers didn't like his surly attitude, but that shouldn't matter.  His numbers kicked ass compared to his peers.  What a crock o' poop.

[tim_m]

Both Gossage and Rice deserve to be in i think and both should've gotten in this year. Gossage only the 5th relief pitcher inducted and i think we all know who the sixth will likely be Rivera.

[cotis]

or hoffman.

[D]

I dont think the hall of fame should be so influenced by sports writers with an axe to grind.

[tim_m]

or hoffman.

Thats quite possible but only if he plays another season or two cause i think its pretty safe to say Rivera plans to retire after his new contract is up after the 2010 season. If Hoffman isn't retired before then Rivera gets in first or they at the same time, but there is no doubt Rivera is a first ballot entrant. Anyone that doesn't vote for him needs a CT scan for brain damage.

[faldor]

or hoffman.

Thats quite possible but only if he plays another season or two cause i think its pretty safe to say Rivera plans to retire after his new contract is up after the 2010 season. If Hoffman isn't retired before then Rivera gets in first or they at the same time, but there is no doubt Rivera is a first ballot entrant. Anyone that doesn't vote for him needs a CT scan for brain damage.

Did Eckersley get in on his first try?  I think he did.  Either way, he was the first of the "modern day" closer to get in.  He was pretty good starting pitcher back in the day but he made the hall on the strength of his domination as a closer.  Closers are now starting to get the respect they deserve.  But not so much for the guys who dominated the 80's.  Sort of the forgotten decade.  Rice, Mattingly, Dawson, Morris, Murphy, guys were stars back then.  I really think the "juiced ball", steroids, expansion, etc. which led to inflated offensive numbers in the mid nineties and on has hurt those guys.  You can't compare the numbers, it was a different game back then.

[tim_m]

or hoffman.

Thats quite possible but only if he plays another season or two cause i think its pretty safe to say Rivera plans to retire after his new contract is up after the 2010 season. If Hoffman isn't retired before then Rivera gets in first or they at the same time, but there is no doubt Rivera is a first ballot entrant. Anyone that doesn't vote for him needs a CT scan for brain damage.

Did Eckersley get in on his first try?? I think he did.? Either way, he was the first of the "modern day" closer to get in.? He was pretty good starting pitcher back in the day but he made the hall on the strength of his domination as a closer.? Closers are now starting to get the respect they deserve.? But not so much for the guys who dominated the 80's.? Sort of the forgotten decade.? Rice, Mattingly, Dawson, Morris, Murphy, guys were stars back then.? I really think the "juiced ball", steroids, expansion, etc. which led to inflated offensive numbers in the mid nineties and on has hurt those guys.? You can't compare the numbers, it was a different game back then.

I can't remember if he did or not. I agree except for Mattingly what hurt him most was is injury and lack of post season play. If he sticks around another 4-5 years i think quite possibly he's in the hall right now. Its such a shame he got hurt and declined so rapidly. He was on the fast track to being one of the greats. He was a guy who played the game right played hard respected and loved the game. He's also a great guy. I've had the pleasure of meeting him back in 89 and he couldn't have been nicer to me and my dad. I remember he shook our hands said hello how are you nice to meet you, took several pictures with us and signed everything i asked him too. I hope one day he finds his way to the hall. If not as a player then a manager. I still think he should get in as a player. His numbers are comparable to kirby puckett's. I know Puckett was a big part of two world series titles and thats probably what put him in but with mattingly you gotta consider his defense. He might be the best defensive first baseman ever or at least top 2-3.