2008 NFL Season - Discuss it all Here

[Axl4Prez2004]

I just thought I'd kick off this thread on the last day of February.  The Eagles just landed Asante Samuel today!  This is a huge signing.  Like I have said before, the Eagles are an automatic playoff team in the '08/'09 season.  This just locks it up.  Why couldn't the Vikings get Asante?  Oh well.  Maybe we'll get Sage Rosenfels from the Texans.  Apparently the Vikes have offered a 3rd rounder but the Texans want a 2nd rounder for Sage. 

Super Bowl Prediction:  the Patriots will have a 14-2 regular season, then finish the deal 17-2 and Super Bowl Champs.  (way to go out on a limb, huh?  )   

[sandman]

i'm not a fan of the Samuel signing at all.

the eagles, who are typically cheap and refuse to overpay, just grossly overpaid a player at a position where they needed the least amount of help. a position that they have been successful in addressing via the draft. a position where they already have 2 pro bowlers.

the eagles need help at so many other positions. i just do not understand the $10M cap hit for a CB.

[faldor]

Here's my take on Asante, as a Patriot fan.  He's good, he's very good.  Some people say he's a product of the system the Patriots ran, not sure if I'd agree with that.  He's definitely talented, and one of the top corners in the game.  He has great hands and makes big plays (although he couldn't hold onto that pass Eli tossed right to him that would've won the Super Bowl, yes I'm still bitter).  With all that being said, I think he is highly overrated and not worth the contract he just signed.  He is not a shutdown corner by any means.  The reason he has so many INT's the last 2 seasons is because QB's aren't afraid to go after him.  Fortunately for Asante there are some pretty crappy QB's in the NFL these days.  Ty Law was a great CB, a shutdown corner, a guy you'd put on the Marvin Harrison's of the world and he'd keep them in check and make big plays in big games.  Asante doesn't come close to comparing to Ty Law in his prime.  If Asante is so good, why was he not covering Plaxico on the Super Bowl winning TD? (again, still bitter)  Asante could never be counted on to take the opposing teams top WR out of the game, not like Ty.  But he was the best CB on the market this year so he got the big payday.  And he already has 2 rings with the Pats so he went for the money, can't blame him.  Not too familiar with the Eagles situation but if they're not really in need of a DB, I think they could've attempted to throw some money at another Patriot free agent.  I'm sure Donovan would've liked to add Randy Moss to the fold.  I hope the Pats can work something out with Randy, but he is listening to offers and apparently he's nowhere close to signing at this point.  Pats are also probably gonna lose Randall Gay so they're in need of some major help in the secondary.  Ellis Hobbs has proven time and again that he's nowhere near a #1 CB.  And of course the LB's aren't getting any younger.  It'll be interesting to see what they do with that #7 pick.  They're notorious for trading down to get multiple picks in return.  We'll see.

[sandman]

faldor - thanks for your thoughts.

the giants proved you don't need shut down corners to win. getting to the QB is so much more important. and Clements big signing last year with SF proved that a top corner doesn't make much of a difference AND is risky when changing teams/systems.

i'm hoping they are able to trade Lito and a pick for a WR. apparently they talked to the Cardinals for Fitzgerald but the asking price was too much. maybe Lito and a 2nd or 3rd rounder to Detroit for Roy Williams?? that's probably just wishful thinking on my part. 

[Axl4Prez2004]

faldor - thanks for your thoughts.

the giants proved you don't need shut down corners to win. getting to the QB is so much more important. and Clements big signing last year with SF proved that a top corner doesn't make much of a difference AND is risky when changing teams/systems.

i'm hoping they are able to trade Lito and a pick for a WR. apparently they talked to the Cardinals for Fitzgerald but the asking price was too much. maybe Lito and a 2nd or 3rd rounder to Detroit for Roy Williams?? that's probably just wishful thinking on my part. 

Sandman, that's some nice wishful thinking.  Roy Williams is a stud and worth that price...but would the Lions bite?  I'm not so sure.  If I were the Eagles I'd be lusting after Fitzgerald, but unfortunately I'm pretty sure he's really expensive. 

Also, Sandman, you make a great point about the need for a great pass-rush.  I think I'm starting to agree with you about Asante...that said, I still think the Eagles are a playoff team with a healthy McNabb and Westbrook.   

[russkwtx]

I just wonder how long the Patriots approach of letting talented players go and plugging in replacements can last. Have they just been lucky, or is it really the system that makes the player? It just is incredible to me how they can lose player after player and continue to compete (and win) at such a high level.

[faldor]

Look at the guys the Patriots have "lost" in recent years.  They made their impact on the Pats but once they left you really didn't hear much from them. Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy, Deion Branch, David Givens, Antowain Smith.  Just to name a few.  Maybe these guys prospered in "the system" and no so much with other teams. Ty Law pretty much said that very thing in an interciew with the Boston Globe this weekend.  Saying he wasn't as effective in KC because he wasn't given the freedom to move around on defense, he was pretty much relegated to the left side.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

So Brett Favre is saying that if the Packers don't get Moss, he will retire.

Interesting.

[Axl4Prez2004]

So Brett Favre is saying that if the Packers don't get Moss, he will retire.

Interesting.

Wasn't that the rumor last year?  Is this confirmed that he's saying it now?  Wow.  I heard Randy was close to re-signing with the Pats.   

PS I forgot to do a happy-dance for my Vikings landing Bernard Berrian!  Berrian and Sidney Rice are a nice pair of wideouts, and we finally dumped that Troy Williamson (#7 pick overall in the draft a couple years ago, he couldn't catch a damn thing, and now we just traded him to Jacksonville for a 6th or 7th round pick, now that's a kick in the balls)  Also, any Cincy fans or AFC fans have any info. on safety Madieu Williams?  Apparently the Vikes were happy to land him.  Any thoughts out there?
Anything to help our secondary is a plus.

[faldor]

So Brett Favre is saying that if the Packers don't get Moss, he will retire.

Interesting.

Wasn't that the rumor last year?  Is this confirmed that he's saying it now?  Wow.  I heard Randy was close to re-signing with the Pats.   

I haven't heard that about Favre.  It does appear that Moss will end up staying with the Pats, although nothing is imminent.  The Patriots apparently stepped up their interest when other teams got involved, sensing that Moss was serious about shopping himself around.  The Patriots have made what they feel is a fair offer and it is still on the table.  Moss is seeing whether he can get a better deal.  Apparently he hasn't found one yet.  If he does, not sure if the Patriots would up their offer but it's not something they would historically do.

[faldor]

So Brett Favre is saying that if the Packers don't get Moss, he will retire.

Interesting.

Wasn't that the rumor last year?  Is this confirmed that he's saying it now?  Wow.  I heard Randy was close to re-signing with the Pats.   

PS I forgot to do a happy-dance for my Vikings landing Bernard Berrian!  Berrian and Sidney Rice are a nice pair of wideouts, and we finally dumped that Troy Williamson (#7 pick overall in the draft a couple years ago, he couldn't catch a damn thing, and now we just traded him to Jacksonville for a 6th or 7th round pick, now that's a kick in the balls)  Also, any Cincy fans or AFC fans have any info. on safety Madieu Williams?  Apparently the Vikes were happy to land him.  Any thoughts out there?
Anything to help our secondary is a plus.

Don't know too much about Williams, but I did read that he's one of the few good "cover" safeties.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Thanks Faldor.  Personally, I thin Randy'd be nuts to go anywhere else.  N'England's a guaranteed winner.  There's no better quarterback a receiver could have.

Did you guys notice the Browns landed Stallworth?  Solid O-line, Braylon Edwards, Stallworth, Winslow, and Derek Anderson/Brady Quinn behind center.  I'm not a big fan of Jamal Lewis, but apparently they like him.  That's one solid offensive unit. 

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

I saw that bit on SportsCenter last night.

I can't wait to see the quarterback situation in Cleveland play out.

[C0ma]

Look at the guys the Patriots have "lost" in recent years.  They made their impact on the Pats but once they left you really didn't hear much from them. Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy, Deion Branch, David Givens, Antowain Smith.  Just to name a few.  Maybe these guys prospered in "the system" and no so much with other teams. Ty Law pretty much said that very thing in an interciew with the Boston Globe this weekend.  Saying he wasn't as effective in KC because he wasn't given the freedom to move around on defense, he was pretty much relegated to the left side.

What Ty Law is complaining about is exactly what the Pats do... they play left-right and don't stray from it. That's why Assante was on the other side durring that TD... he is the LCB. Belicheck has done that since day one. It was the same when Ty Law was here... he was the LCB.

[Sober_times]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Am5cjkfHD4dxDGLjnN72G6lDubYF?slug=ap-patriots-moss&prov=ap&type=lgns

Patriots bring back Moss for another try at title


BOSTON (AP)?Randy Moss is staying with the New England Patriots.

The defending AFC champions re-signed the All-Pro receiver to a three-year deal that?s reportedly worth $27 million. The deal was confirmed by the team on Monday shortly after Moss posted a message to fans on his Web site.

?I want to take time out to thank all of the fans for their support and for wishing me well in my return to New England,? therealrandymoss.com quotes him as saying. ?I?m ready to get back. We have some unfinished business to take care of.?

Paring Moss with NFL MVP Tom Brady, the Patriots set offensive records and breezed through the regular season with a perfect record. They improved to an unprecedented 18-0 before blowing a chance at the league?s longest unbeaten season with a 17-14 Super Bowl loss to the New York Giants.

?What Randy did for our team last year was outstanding,? Patriots coach Bill Belichick said in a statement. ?He is one of our most consistent, competitive and team-oriented players and it is undoubtedly a relationship we are excited to continue.?

ESPN.com reported the deal was worth $27 million. Neither the Patriots nor Moss?s Web site confirmed details of the deal.

A four-time All-Pro, Moss took a pay cut to get out of Oakland and come to New England last April. In his first season with the Patriots, Moss set the league record with 23 touchdown catches in a season and totaled 98 receptions for 1,493 yards.

Moss, 31, has caught 774 passes for 12,193 yards in a 10-year career with the Minnesota Vikings, Oakland Raiders and Patriots. His 124 career receiving touchdowns are fourth in NFL history.


So the speculation of where hes going when we all knew he was staying can now end. 

[sandman]

the Eagles offered Moss similar or slightly more money than the Patriots. this has been confirmed by a few sources.

unbelievable. i give them credit for trying. hopefully they can work out a trade for an impact player on offense. the Cards are denying they will trade Fitzgerald, but i'm hoping they are just playing hardball.

[faldor]

Look at the guys the Patriots have "lost" in recent years.  They made their impact on the Pats but once they left you really didn't hear much from them. Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy, Deion Branch, David Givens, Antowain Smith.  Just to name a few.  Maybe these guys prospered in "the system" and no so much with other teams. Ty Law pretty much said that very thing in an interciew with the Boston Globe this weekend.  Saying he wasn't as effective in KC because he wasn't given the freedom to move around on defense, he was pretty much relegated to the left side.

What Ty Law is complaining about is exactly what the Pats do... they play left-right and don't stray from it. That's why Assante was on the other side durring that TD... he is the LCB. Belicheck has done that since day one. It was the same when Ty Law was here... he was the LCB.

I don't know, I tend to remember Ty Law always covering the other teams top receiver when he was on the Pats.  I remember them flashing the stats of the guys he held in check.  Now maybe they were switching.  I'm sure Ty wasn't on the #1 full time, but I remember seeing Ellis Hobbs covering #1's a lot more than he should've been if Asante is one of the supposed top CB's in the league.  And Ty was talking about how the Pats WOULD switch the defense up and how the offense never knew where anyone was going to be on any given play.  He said, that didn't happen in KC.  He was the LCB and didn't stray from that.  I remember it the way Ty does.  Maybe Bill plays things straight up these days, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case back in the day.

Anyhow, regardless there's gonna be some major changes in the secondary.  I was watching the NFL Network free agency show last night and they were saying how the Pats were making it a priority to change things up in the secondary.  They were 26th in red zone defense and wanted to vastly improve on that.  That sounds good to me, and losing Asante doesn't help the situation.  But they can use that money to sign a few guys to fill certain roles on defense.  It's worked before, so I have no reason to believe it won't work again.

[faldor]

the Eagles offered Moss similar or slightly more money than the Patriots. this has been confirmed by a few sources.

unbelievable. i give them credit for trying. hopefully they can work out a trade for an impact player on offense. the Cards are denying they will trade Fitzgerald, but i'm hoping they are just playing hardball.

Yeah I give Moss credit for not going for the money in this situation, although the contract the Pats offered isn't too shabby.  He obviously realized he's got a good thing going with Brady and as he said, "they have some unfinished business."  Most often players will say that but the almighty dollar wins out, not this time.  Maybe the Eagles should've stayed away from Samuel and thrown even more money Randy's way.  That may have changed his mind.  That being said, they say defense wins championships and that seems to still hold true.  As dominant as the Pats were on the offensive side of the ball last season they only managed 14 points in the biggest game of the season.  (Although I'm still flabbergasted on why they didn't stray from the gameplan that obviously wasn't working until their last drive of the game.  They worked shorter routes and moved the ball down the field with ease.  Granted the Giants D was getting tired by then, but still.  It seemed they figured things out a bit too late.)  So they had 2 major players enter free agency and chose to go with the one on offense.  Not that I disagree with their decision, I think Samuel is overrated, but they still have a great deal of work to do on a defense that already needed improvements before the losses of Asante, Gay, Colvin.

[russkwtx]

The biggest mistake a player can make is leaving a good situation for one not so good just for the money. I applaud Moss. He made the right decision. When you are losing and never make the playoffs year after year, the money does not compensate. You only play so many years, and as a player you want to win. Money is nice, but really, does it really matter if you are making 8 or 9 or 10 mil a year? I would rather make 8 mil and win than 10 mil and lose. Losing takes the fun out of the game.

I don't have the stats, but I would bet that more free agents move from losing clubs to winning clubs than from winning to losing. Just a hunch.

[Axl4Prez2004]

^Randy's got experience on his side.  Life was no picnic and the team was no Super Bowl contender in Minnesota in 2004.  Oakland 2005 and 2006 provide a great life lesson in what happens when you put money over team success. 

I'm happy for Randy.  I still think he's among the top 2 receivers ever to play the game.  If he puts up similar numbers and grabs a Super Bowl ring or 2 in his stay with the Patsies, he'd have to be mentioned in the same breath as the greatest receiver ever, Jerry Rice.

btw, on a side note, has anybody seen a little news story talking about how either in 2011 or 2012 as of now there will be no salary cap that season???  Interesting stuff.

one more thing, congrats to the Jets for getting Faneca.  I'm a huge fan of all-pro caliber offensive linemen.  Hutchinson's been a horse for my Vikings.  Line play is so underrated.