The "I don't like three guitar players in the band because I don't get it" thread

[4tus phenomenon]

To me,3 guitars sound like a mess. Add TWO keybords and it is a torture to mix.

As the guy said, it's really really hard to find enough space for everybody. So you're in a band and nobody can hear you because there are 10 people onstage.

Really, Axl should drop this idea and get back to a classic sound and a classic configuratrion:
- 2 guitars (taht's enough!)
- 1 bass
- 1 drummer (that's enough!)
- 1 keyboard

and that's it. There should be one superstar guy on guitar too. You can't with 3. You can with 2.

[Satapher]

To me,3 guitars sound like a mess. Add TWO keybords and it is a torture to mix.

As the guy said, it's really really hard to find enough space for everybody. So you're in a band and nobody can hear you because there are 10 people onstage.

Really, Axl should drop this idea and get back to a classic sound and a classic configuratrion:
- 2 guitars (taht's enough!)
- 1 bass
- 1 drummer (that's enough!)
- 1 keyboard

and that's it. There should be one superstar guy on guitar too. You can't with 3. You can with 2.

You really need to check out Iron Maiden man and then give a proper conclusion...

[Voodoochild]

To me,3 guitars sound like a mess. Add TWO keybords and it is a torture to mix.

As the guy said, it's really really hard to find enough space for everybody. So you're in a band and nobody can hear you because there are 10 people onstage.

Really, Axl should drop this idea and get back to a classic sound and a classic configuratrion:
- 2 guitars (taht's enough!)
- 1 bass
- 1 drummer (that's enough!)
- 1 keyboard

and that's it. There should be one superstar guy on guitar too. You can't with 3. You can with 2.

Let me guess: the superstar guy is Richard Fortus?

[4tus phenomenon]

To me,3 guitars sound like a mess. Add TWO keybords and it is a torture to mix.

As the guy said, it's really really hard to find enough space for everybody. So you're in a band and nobody can hear you because there are 10 people onstage.

Really, Axl should drop this idea and get back to a classic sound and a classic configuratrion:
- 2 guitars (taht's enough!)
- 1 bass
- 1 drummer (that's enough!)
- 1 keyboard

and that's it. There should be one superstar guy on guitar too. You can't with 3. You can with 2.

Let me guess: the superstar guy is Richard Fortus?

Of course, he is the best so it's normal. But we all know you don't like Richard. We get it now.

[Voodoochild]

I like Richard, who said I don't?

I just think he's not "the best", which is my opinion, so it's normal.

[Christian]

Voodoo doesn't like him because Richard has a bigger nose than Voodoo 

Just kidding...

Richard is a good guitar player, but not THE guitar player! He is very generic, IMO... so as Ashba. Robin has a very different style, so as Ron

[AtariLegend]

I used to not get it, but probably the best soundboard of 06/07 suggests it can work;

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=56555.0

[AtariLegend]

However on the downside, Tommy does play alot of cool bass that we sometimes don't get to hear, because theirs just a little bit too much guitar on a few tracks.

[jarmo]

I guess it would be ok with him if it was just Ron and DJ playing on stage. It would sound better than with three guitar players? 



/jarmo

[Christian]

that bass thing is a mix thing.

Rock in Rio 3 was a show that i heard the bass much more than anyother GN'R show. and there were 3 guitars there...
ps: other shows that we can hear clearly the bass: Las Vegas 2001, Rock Am Ring 2006, Donnington earmix, anyother show from 2002 european/asian tour

I used to not get it, but probably the best soundboard of 06/07 suggests it can work;

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=56555.0

that's not a soundboard =P

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

I guess it would be ok with him if it was just Ron and DJ playing on stage. It would sound better than with three guitar players? 



/jarmo

Sounds like a plan.

[AtariLegend]

that's not a soundboard =P

It's better sound quality than "Boston 02".... 

[seely]

Iron Maiden do it fine, so can GN'R

Like Axl said, usually on studio recordings, a guitarist will double his playing, making effectively 4 guitar tracks when you have just the 2 players
On CD, each player just did each part once presumably, so there's not that big a difference

[4tus phenomenon]

I guess it would be ok with him if it was just Ron and DJ playing on stage. It would sound better than with three guitar players? 



/jarmo

How much money did Axl put on the table to buy your integrity?

[NicoRourke]

^ Haven't you seen the cartoon ?

You're ... Well, funny.

[jarmo]

I guess it would be ok with him if it was just Ron and DJ playing on stage. It would sound better than with three guitar players? 



/jarmo

How much money did Axl put on the table to buy your integrity?

Even with all the money in the world, you still wouldn't have enough to buy yourself a clue.

Last warning.




/jarmo

[4tus phenomenon]

last warning about what? there was not even one to begin with.

[jarmo]

You've been banned before.

Don't think you get the same treatment as everybody else.



/jarmo

[4tus phenomenon]

yeah, but that was a long time ago.

[jarmo]

And you didn't change.




/jarmo

[mrlee]

dont forget lynyrd skynyrd!!!

[4tus phenomenon]

And you didn't change.

/jarmo

Did you?

If you expect me to accept the 3 guitar players thing, trust me, you can wait forever 
Now, this is your role to accept that people have diferent opinions. This is something called... life.

You see Jarmo, there isn't one truth, one though,one way of thinking.


If you ask Slash, I'm sure he will tell you GN'R don't need 3 guitar players. If you ask Axl, he will tell you GN'R need 3 guitar players.
And if you ask the band... welll... I know the answer for several of them...do you?
And if you ak the fans... well... read the forums, not only this one but also other ones... I know the answer.... do you?


Axl is alone against everybody on this one. Accept he can be wrong. If you don't, accept people can think he is wrong 

[jarmo]

Now, this is your role to accept that people have diferent opinions. This is something called... life.

What's with this "different opinions" excuse? You're still acting the same way you did when you got banned. It has nothing to do with your opinion, it has more to do with how you act.

I don't need to accept people who who got banned because they acted like morons and come back still acting like morons.


So stop blaming "different opinions", it's about your personality and your problem with respecting others.



/jarmo

[mrlee]

tbh.

If you dont like having  3 guitar players. Then you dont have to watch the shows. You have have to get the bootlegs from the eras in which they use 3 guitar players.

you can quite easily live off old bootlegs of previous line ups.

I can appreciate if you constructively talked about having 3 guitar players spoiling the music on CD and why.

But how it makes the live show bad, and they cant be "superstars". Come on man, thats just dumb!!!

[4tus phenomenon]

Now, this is your role to accept that people have diferent opinions. This is something called... life.

What's with this "different opinions" excuse? You're still acting the same way you did when you got banned. It has nothing to do with your opinion, it has more to do with how you act.

I don't need to accept people who who got banned because they acted like morons and come back still acting like morons.


So stop blaming "different opinions", it's about your personality and your problem with respecting others.

/jarmo

That's wrong.

I respect others and others respect me. However, because I have a diffrent opinion, an opinion that goes against the guy who employs you, then you, and only you, don't respect me.

There's a sense. It's you against me, not me against the others or even me against you. Really. If you want to litterally FORCE me to accept any Axl's decision, then forget that, because in my humble opinion, Axl is wrong.

It's easy to threaten people of ban when you don't agree with them... I didn't insult anyone here.


Stop seeing problems that don't exist.

[mrlee]

Dude. Everyone knows Jarmos opinions.

Why the hell do you even bother getting personal over it. Let it go.

[4tus phenomenon]

Dude. Everyone knows Jarmos opinions.

Why the hell do you even bother getting personal over it. Let it go.

Yeah, after all I think you are right. Good post.

I'll let it go, whatever. 

[jarmo]

It's easy to threaten people of ban when you don't agree with them... I didn't insult anyone here.

You insulted me. That's when you act like a moron.


I made a reply about the three guitarists thing and you made your reply to be about me.

That's not very clever of you.

Instead of respecting my opinion, you try to come up with some shit about me. I'm not one of the three guitar players, I have nothing to do with the topic. Yet you feel the need to bring me up, time after time.


That's the fucking problem, that according to you does not exist.


Now, should we talk about you and your man crush om Richard? No, of course not.

Next time you try to make a topic to be about me, I will kick you the fuck out.

I haven't forgotten what you did last time you were banned so don't fucking act all "respectful".



/jarmo

[IKnowWhereIAM]

I am a very amateur guitar player...more like a guitar noise producer...I tuned my guitar, adjusted my amp, and could not figure out how to copy GnR's 'sound'...only recently have I found that the 'something extra' is the layered effect of 2-3 guitarists playing the same riff...it is definately a more rich, whole sound.  This made me focus on that effect much more - and now it really jumps out when I hear 'mono' bands like Aerosmith.  Keep up the great work GnR.   

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

I respect others and others respect me.

Who is this mystery person/people?

[estebanf]

that's not a soundboard =P

It's better sound quality than "Boston 02".... 

you got no idea what you're talking about, or maybe you are confusing Boston 2002 with another show.

the Boston 2002 audio has probably the best quality of ALL the GNR bootlegs, all lineups.

we have got a 100% genuine lossless / complete / digital soundboard recording from Boston 2002

the bootleg you mentioned is not even a soundboard recording.

[Voodoochild]

Actually, the Boston 2002 bootleg released by GNR.us team got mixed with some crowd noise to make it sounding fatter. I'd say the Pittsburgh 2002 one sounds cleaner IMHO.

And yeah, I guess people think the word "soundboard" means quality and not the source.

[4tus phenomenon]

Message for Jarmo : Listen man, I'm not here for an internet fight. I have other things to do in my life than to have a dispute on the internet. I hope you also have much more important things to do in your life too. don't you? So whatever. Think what you want about me, you will not change my mind. Deal with it. Not so much to argue about.

[4tus phenomenon]

The problem is not Ashba, he's a good guy, it's Axl's choices over the years. He goes against the fans, and most important, against the band.
There are people in the band for years, like Fortus, but Axl brings another guy to take his place and to neutralize him. It's very political. He doesn't let anyone to be too important. This is EXACTLY the same thing Axl did years ago by bringing Paul Tobias in order to reduce Slash's influence in the band.

It's like if you're working in a company for 7 years, you prooved you can be a manager and be important in the society, but your boss just recruit another guy who is just here to take your place. That's what happened with Robin and he left. He was there for years, but the more time pasted, the less he was given. I'm afraid it's going to be the same with Richard. Why DJ Ashba when you already have Richard Fortus? is it to push him to leave the band or what? Richard is there, he prooved he is good, why doesn't Axl put his trust in him?

Once again, the 3 guitar players thing is just an Axl's thing. Nobody is really convinced it's necessary but him. He is alone. And he is more than alone when on top of that he recruits other players to take the place of the players who are already there. Nobody really understands what the hell he is doing. Believe me, many bandmembers are scratching their heads. They don't understand and they feel frustrated and betrayed.


Expect other departures in the future.

[Bodhi]

Once again, the 3 guitar players thing is just an Axl's thing. Nobody is really convinced it's necessary but him. He is alone.


Expect other departures in the future.

It's Axl's band, he can do whatever the fuck he wants.  Thats really the end of the story.  I saw the new line-up 6 times over the past few years.  In the front row 4 of those times, I have no complaints about what he is doing with the line-up.  They are awesome.

[Voodoochild]

Oh boy...

There are people in the band for years, like Fortus, but Axl brings another guy to take his place and to neutralize him. It's very political. He doesn't let anyone to be too important. This is EXACTLY the same thing Axl did years ago by bringing Paul Tobias in order to reduce Slash's influence in the band.

Paul Tobias was there to replace Izzy, not Slash. Slash wanted to work alone rather than writing with someone who could bring good guitars. And maybe you should start to realise how not only Axl, but a lot of people don't think much about your hero.

It's like if you're working in a company for 7 years, you prooved you can be a manager and be important in the society, but your boss just recruit another guy who is just here to take your place. That's what happened with Robin and he left. He was there for years, but the more time pasted, the less he was given. I'm afraid it's going to be the same with Richard. Why DJ Ashba when you already have Richard Fortus? is it to push him to leave the band or what? Richard is there, he prooved he is good, why doesn't Axl put his trust in him?

Maybe he's a good performer but not writer in Axl's view? IMO, Richard is good, but just like a lot of random session musicians out there.

Once again, the 3 guitar players thing is just an Axl's thing. Nobody is really convinced it's necessary but him. He is alone.

Love how you just assume your opinion is the same as the rest of the world. Talk for yourself only, please.

And he is more than alone when on top of that he recruits other players to take the place of the players who are already there. Nobody really understands what the hell he is doing. Believe me, many bandmembers are scratching their heads. They don't understand and they feel frustrated and betrayed.


Expect other departures in the future.

That's why Richard left when the album was released, huh?

[Jim Bob]

The problem is not Ashba, he's a good guy, it's Axl's choices over the years. He goes against the fans, and most important, against the band.
There are people in the band for years, like Fortus, but Axl brings another guy to take his place and to neutralize him. It's very political. He doesn't let anyone to be too important. This is EXACTLY the same thing Axl did years ago by bringing Paul Tobias in order to reduce Slash's influence in the band.

It's like if you're working in a company for 7 years, you prooved you can be a manager and be important in the society, but your boss just recruit another guy who is just here to take your place. That's what happened with Robin and he left. He was there for years, but the more time pasted, the less he was given. I'm afraid it's going to be the same with Richard. Why DJ Ashba when you already have Richard Fortus? is it to push him to leave the band or what? Richard is there, he prooved he is good, why doesn't Axl put his trust in him?

Once again, the 3 guitar players thing is just an Axl's thing. Nobody is really convinced it's necessary but him. He is alone. And he is more than alone when on top of that he recruits other players to take the place of the players who are already there. Nobody really understands what the hell he is doing. Believe me, many bandmembers are scratching their heads. They don't understand and they feel frustrated and betrayed.


Expect other departures in the future.

Stop talking like you speak for everyone and that you have knowledge about what goes on behind the scenes.  You are full of shit.

Seriously, do us all a favor and unplug your computer right now.

[ppbebe]

The problem is ...... blah blah blah
yack yack yack

Stop seeing problems that don't exist.

[PJ]

50 posts and this guy floods the place with crap and insults
you should ban him jarmo

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

50 posts and this guy floods the place with crap and insults
you should ban him jarmo

He did, like three years ago.   

[PJ]

yeah i know
obviously he hasnt changed.. so why complicate things more?

[ppbebe]

yea he's still funnah.

[jacdaniel]

I dont have ANY issue with GNR having 3 guitar players although i don't think its neccesary.
it would only be neccesary if they were doing harmonies (like maiden), which they arent.

[-Rob-]

I'm kind of torn on this "three guitar players" thing.

On one hand, I think it's unnecessary, and at times, too cluttered.

On the other hand, the band doesn't have a real guitar virtuoso at the moment, IMO. So I'm unsure if any the current guys have the ability to play those solos with the intensity that they need to be played.

While I personally think BBF is a pretty stand up guy, I'm not the biggest fan of his style of playing. His rhythm in the track 'Chinese Democracy' sounded pretty cool. But aside from that, I wasn't overly impressed with his other contributions to the record.

Bucket/Tobias combo would have been the next best thing to Slash/Izzy. JMO.

[Voodoochild]

OMG, you just dismissed Ron as a "real guitar virtuoso". You can't be serious.

I dont have ANY issue with GNR having 3 guitar players although i don't think its neccesary.
it would only be neccesary if they were doing harmonies (like maiden), which they arent.

Which would be the chesiest thing in the whole GNR history to do.

It's fine to have 3 guitar players. People can't understand how it brings other styles in a same song rather than having just the same thing over and over. It's not about being "neccessary", it's just a different approach. I don't know how so many bothers so much about it - the band sounds bigger and heavier with them, why is that so bad?

The new songs all have several guitars sounding at the same time. Why people would trade this over a simplistic approach with just 2 guitars making the tune sounding flat?

[jarmo]

Why does it bother people that they have three guitar players? Because it's not the AFD line up!





/jarmo

[Jim Bob]

Why does it bother people that they have three guitar players? Because it's not the AFD line up!





/jarmo

I wonder if they would bitch if it was Slash, Izzy, and Gilby :p

[jacdaniel]

I wonder if they would bitch if it was Slash, Izzy, and Gilby

Look, im a guitar player.  I know that its kinda difficult as it is with 2 guitar players in a band.  (for timing and shit).
More guitar players can be used for harmonies, which sound fucking awesome.   (Metallica, thin lizzy, maiden)

But if Jimmy page, eddie van halen and Randy Rhoads can sound SO good on their own, why the need for 3?

But, as i said, I DONT have a problem with this!  Its nothing to do with the line up.

I simply wanted to get other musicians opinions on the subject. 

[Voodoochild]

Ok, let's have mine, as a guitar player too: I think it sounds better with 3 guitar players. There's no such a problem with timing and shit when you have talented people.

And harmonies are cheesie, but you had this when Robin and Bucket played a small section of the Paradise City ending solo togheter. It was good, but only because it wasn't more than 15 seconds.

To me, it's awesome to have three different guitar players doing it. They are all too different to each other and that's why it worked.

[jacdaniel]

Ok, let's have mine, as a guitar player too: I think it sounds better with 3 guitar players. There's no such a problem with timing and shit when you have talented people.

And harmonies are cheesie, but you had this when Robin and Bucket played a small section of the Paradise City ending solo togheter. It was good, but only because it wasn't more than 15 seconds.

To me, it's awesome to have three different guitar players doing it. They are all too different to each other and that's why it worked.

Thanks man, nice to hear a musicians opinion!  Mind you, i love some harmonies but its never being a Guns thing really.  Listen to Thin Lizzy for some cool harmonies. (Emerald!).  As a guitar player though, you want to be the main man playing the cool parts all the time lol

[Voodoochild]

I know Thin Lizzy, its not my cup of tea.

I used to play in a band where I was the only lead. While is cool to have all the solo spots, I always thought we could benefit with more variety in one song. Like Izzy playing lead sometimes in Nightrain or Think About You.

Also, having more than 2 guitars, I can worry about nice little details in the song to fill the spots with more than just chords/power chords without making the song sounding thinner.

[D]

There isn't anything wrong with 3 guitar players, it does sound better live etc


I like defined roles. Lead singer, drummer, bass player, guitar hero, rhythm guitar player who holds it all together etc

with GNR, the solo's are so shared, its hard to truly identify with that one guy.

I understand having the virtuoso position with bucket and now Ron, but it kind of seems Richard and Robin could easily handle the other duties very easily on their own.

Like when Bucket was in the band. His TWAT solo and Sorry solos prove that he isn't only a great shredder, but also the absolute best guitar player on all styles. I would've LOVED to have heard what he could've done with solos on every single song.

I just think bucket is so above the other guitar players on CD, that the solos go from amazing when he is playing to good or ok when the other guys play them.

Robin does well on SOD and Better
Ron does well on CD Shacklers and Riad

but I would love to have heard Bucket on Catcher and This I Love which are two of my favorite songs that i really don't care for the solos esp Catcher.

[ppbebe]

so can we all agree that robin/dj is this, bh/bumble is that and Richard is Richard.

in the 21st century GNR has those 3 outstanding guitar parts.