Goodbye Ron (???)

[pilferk]

Are you claiming that a victory? I even remember conceding a price range of $1-3.99! I still do not see what is so absurd in me remembering someone posting up a picture of the albums being off loaded for that price within short distance from its release!

Because it didn't happen.  And evidence was provided via links to Best Buy flyers throughout the time frame 6 months post release, including: week of release, week after release, Black Friday ads (2 weeks post release) showing a very modest discount (a couple bucks..to 11.99), ads on and off from December - February, ads spottily scattered from March through mid April. Best Buy prices nationally, not locally. They are not "franchise" stores..they are a corporate owned chains (meaning store manager does not have discretion to mass price items however they see fit). ALL of those flyers show pricing nowhere near what you remember.

Your evidence is...your memory.

We're not going to rehash this. You were demonstrably wrong.  If you remember something contrary to the hard evidence that was posted at the time of the LAST discussion, either your memory is faulty or it was a pricing error, rather than a discount.

If YOU'D like to rehash it, review the last discussion.  Nobody else is interested.

[pilferk]

Yes, I'm aware they are playing stadiums in the biggest markets. But still, over half of the shows are north of the border!
Also, compare to their European tour.... More shows over here.

Maybe it says something about the state of rock music in the USA.....

/jarmo

I think it absolutely does.

If you start digging down into sales trends and tour grosses.......I don't think you can really deny it.  There are a very small handful of rock touring acts that are big time ticket sellers in large venues around the country.  A few more if you stick to large, or specific, markets (NYC/LA/Chicago and MAYBE Boston/Detroit). And if you look at album sales, in comparison to other acts......traditional rock isn't burning up the charts, either.

There are certainly exceptions, before anyone starts pointing out the ones and twos.  But the biggest selling acts, both tickets and albums, are the pop music artists, and specifically the pop divas/princesses.

[GNR2014]

The current lineup is the best lineup of GNR ever. Fact.

[JAEBALL]

The current lineup is the best lineup of GNR ever. Fact.

Definitely...

Pilferk...I respect ur opinion on topics like this .. you think the declining ticket sales in the US has much to do with just having a lot of choices to spend your dollar? more than some other places around the world?

[pilferk]

Definitely...

Pilferk...I respect ur opinion on topics like this .. you think the declining ticket sales in the US has much to do with just having a lot of choices to spend your dollar? more than some other places around the world?

Partially.

I think, right now, there is still some economic issues in play.  People in the US are still being selective with how they spend their entertainment/discretionary funds. I think it's getting better, especially with the gas price drops of late...but I think there is still a bit of "gun shy" going on when it comes to consumer spending.

And there are a LOT of choices, to boot, for live events.  From sports, to concerts, to wrestling, to ice shows, to broadway style traveling productions.  There's a lot of options out there.

Take ALL that and combine it with the fact that what you and I think of as traditional rock music just isn't all that popular with the current 12 - 25 year old (who tend to have a lot more disposable income...or, in the case of the 12 to 18 year olds, have a larger influence on how FAMILY disposable income is spent) demographics....and you have a supply/demand issue.

That's especially true in the middle parts of our country, where....interestingly enough...country music is much more popular than rock (and, in some cases, even pop). The west coast, and the NE US...you have much better penetration with rock and roll.

It makes it hard to sell huge numbers of tickets, nationwide.  Between diverse (and sort of regionalized) musical tastes, very diverse economic situations, and the sheer number of choices you have to spend your money on.....there are just very few rock acts, relatively, who appeal and can draw "everywhere". 

[jarmo]

No, I don't, you just don't like to hear it.  And that's not what's ridiculous.

The complaints about no update? Yeah, after being offered reasonable explanations and you still complain. After nine months, it's kinda getting old.

Eight German dates to two UK? Are DC significantly that much bigger in Germany than the UK?

Maybe they are. Maybe the Germans don't care about what's trendy and are happy to go see the nostalgia shows. While in the UK people are busy complaining....
 

It is actually just guess work Jarmo, educated guess work.

No, to use your term, it's a spin.
You're quick to spin things for AC/DC and other bands. Not for GN'R.

Imagine if you managed to have the same positive attitude for GN'R. But no.




/jarmo

[JAEBALL]

Definitely...

Pilferk...I respect ur opinion on topics like this .. you think the declining ticket sales in the US has much to do with just having a lot of choices to spend your dollar? more than some other places around the world?

Partially.

I think, right now, there is still some economic issues in play.  People in the US are still being selective with how they spend their entertainment/discretionary funds. I think it's getting better, especially with the gas price drops of late...but I think there is still a bit of "gun shy" going on when it comes to consumer spending.

And there are a LOT of choices, to boot, for live events.  From sports, to concerts, to wrestling, to ice shows, to broadway style traveling productions.  There's a lot of options out there.

Take ALL that and combine it with the fact that what you and I think of as traditional rock music just isn't all that popular with the current 12 - 25 year old (who tend to have a lot more disposable income...or, in the case of the 12 to 18 year olds, have a larger influence on how FAMILY disposable income is spent) demographics....and you have a supply/demand issue.

That's especially true in the middle parts of our country, where....interestingly enough...country music is much more popular than rock (and, in some cases, even pop). The west coast, and the NE US...you have much better penetration with rock and roll.

It makes it hard to sell huge numbers of tickets, nationwide.  Between diverse (and sort of regionalized) musical tastes, very diverse economic situations, and the sheer number of choices you have to spend your money on.....there are just very few rock acts, relatively, who appeal and can draw "everywhere". 

Yeah I can't disagree with ANY of that. People in my age group 30-40... we are all worrying about feeding our kids and paying our bills and the teenagers now are just too much in to the rap and pop... and middle america... all country music.

I'd love to go to more shows and stuff...but I save it for GNR related shows and Giants and Yankee games, and the sports games are the worst... took my son to his first Yankee game last year..he is 5.. cost half a paycheck with everything.

[pilferk]

Yeah I can't disagree with ANY of that. People in my age group 30-40... we are all worrying about feeding our kids and paying our bills and the teenagers now are just too much in to the rap and pop... and middle america... all country music.

I'd love to go to more shows and stuff...but I save it for GNR related shows and Giants and Yankee games, and the sports games are the worst... took my son to his first Yankee game last year..he is 5.. cost half a paycheck with everything.

Exactly. You prioritize. It seems like that's exactly what's going on, in the market, right now.

We do a trip to Yankee Stadium just about every year....there's 5 of us.  Usually find a game, via stub hub, that's during the week, and a typical "non-contender". We get bleacher seats.  It still runs us, between gas, parking, tickets and food....a few hundred bucks. And that's really doing everything we can to control the costs.

Lest someone think that's off topic...it's meant to demonstrate the overall costs of all the options out there for people.  Live events ain't cheap....not concerts, not sports, not the freaking Ice Capades (or Disney on Ice..whatever).   Given all the choices, a limited (and probably more limited by concerns of a return to our recent economic recession) amount of disposable income, and the different musical tastes...I think that sets up for a sort of "rock hostile" environment for nation wide touring.  That's not to say there's not a way to do it, and be successful.  But the 60 city tours of the past...they are a loser for the majority of potential touring rock shows.  Only a very small handful can make those work and be really successful, IMHO.

[FunkyMonkey]

No, I don't, you just don't like to hear it.  And that's not what's ridiculous.

The complaints about no update? Yeah, after being offered reasonable explanations and you still complain. After nine months, it's kinda getting old.

/jarmo

What's getting old is management making the fans guess, for months, what is going on, when they know but don't feel the need to share it with the fans.

[LongGoneDay]

Rock music is dead, period.
The last time popular music was flooded with talented rock bands was the prime years of GN?R, Metallica, Nirvana, SG, AIC, STP, Megadeth, Pantera, RHCP etc, etc, etc.
Then came bands of far less talent, some with none apparent, like Limp Bizkit, Korn, LP and hard to believe, but it actually got far worse from there.
Now everything is pop. Nickleback would have been boo?d out of your local watering whole in the early nineties. Hopefully taken out back and shot.

The world today has gone crazy, but people will always flock to see the few true rock bands that remain.
The Stones look like they could die at any moment, but will be able to print money on tour until that happens.
Aerosmith still brings em out in droves.

If classic Guns had stayed together, and alive, they certainly would too.
Axl is a legendary frontman, but Guns N? Roses without Slash, Duff, Izzy, Steven or Matt isn?t going to be the draw that Aerosmith with Tyler/Perry, Stones with Jagger/Richards continues to be, and rightfully so.

[JAEBALL]

No, I don't, you just don't like to hear it.  And that's not what's ridiculous.

The complaints about no update? Yeah, after being offered reasonable explanations and you still complain. After nine months, it's kinda getting old.

Eight German dates to two UK? Are DC significantly that much bigger in Germany than the UK?

Maybe they are. Maybe the Germans don't care about what's trendy and are happy to go see the nostalgia shows. While in the UK people are busy complaining....
 

It is actually just guess work Jarmo, educated guess work.

No, to use your term, it's a spin.
You're quick to spin things for AC/DC and other bands. Not for GN'R.

Imagine if you managed to have the same positive attitude for GN'R. But no.




/jarmo

I think you could be a little bit more understanding about being frustrated by not knowing for sure if X is even still a member of your favorite band...

I personally don't care if he goes or stays anymore... just saying.. if somebody is upset about the uncertainty... not hard to understand why.

You two seem to have a feud over this topic... not sure why.

[JAEBALL]

Rock music is dead, period.
The last time popular music was flooded with talented rock bands was the prime years of GN?R, Metallica, Nirvana, SG, AIC, STP, Megadeth, Pantera, RHCP etc, etc, etc.
Then came bands of far less talent, some with none apparent, like Limp Bizkit, Korn, LP and hard to believe, but it actually got far worse from there.
Now everything is pop. Nickleback would have been boo?d out of your local watering whole in the early nineties. Hopefully taken out back and shot.

The world today has gone crazy, but people will always flock to see the few true rock bands that remain.
The Stones look like they could die at any moment, but will be able to print money on tour until that happens.
Aerosmith still brings em out in droves.

If classic Guns had stayed together, and alive, they certainly would too.
Axl is a legendary frontman, but Guns N? Roses without Slash, Duff, Izzy, Steven or Matt isn?t going to be the draw that Aerosmith with Tyler/Perry, Stones with Jagger/Richards continues to be, and rightfully so.

Yeah, David and Eddie will be very successful this summer in the states too ... But if either one of them weren't on the bill... they couldn't pull it off.

[pilferk]

Yeah, David and Eddie will be very successful this summer in the states too ... But if either one of them weren't on the bill... they couldn't pull it off.

And even the big acts are selling "slower" than they have, historically, in certain geographic areas.

[JAEBALL]

Yeah, David and Eddie will be very successful this summer in the states too ... But if either one of them weren't on the bill... they couldn't pull it off.

And even the big acts are selling "slower" than they have, historically, in certain geographic areas.

Yes no matter what... there is no HARD ticket to get.

[jarmo]

What's getting old is management making the fans guess, for months, what is going on, when they know but don't feel the need to share it with the fans.

They're not making us do anything. It's your choice!

Most people have made their pick.

I think you could be a little bit more understanding about being frustrated by not knowing for sure if X is even still a member of your favorite band...

I personally don't care if he goes or stays anymore... just saying.. if somebody is upset about the uncertainty... not hard to understand why.

Sure. But when you have facts and are offered possible reasons for not getting what you want, and you refuse to take all that in.... The frustrations are partly your own doing.

"I'm frustrated for not getting the news I want"
"Well, maybe you can't get it because....."
"I'm frustrated!"
"Well, how about you assume X or Y and move on until you know for sure?"
"No! I'm frustrated! I need to know!"

You two seem to have a feud over this topic... not sure why.

The poster has some kind of grudge against me and management for some reason.



/jarmo

[McGann]

I ask: is rock dead?
I answer: it just smells bad.
Current pop divas.

I think, have talent.
Emotional connection,
However...absent.

I am a rock fan
Since the music makes me FEEL
It's more than just hooks.

Marketing focus
Is all upon Tweens and Teens
Who know minor pain

In this day and age
Instant gratification
Holds sway above all

Their problems? Tiny.
Popularity, parties
Reality shows

Rock reflects struggle
Survivors identify
With honest lyrics

Pain in the vocal
Anger, heartbreak, depth of love
We feel, and gain hope.

But most modern pop
Appeals more to the spoiled
Whose issues begin

And end with Facebook,
Breast implants at age fifteen
Shallow, surface "love"

Radio station
That I manage day-to-day
Classics, the Rat Pack

Songs that feed the heart
Lyrics stimulate the brain
Palpable passion.

And so I ask this:
In the industry today,
Would Sinatra fail?

But still, there is hope.
'Twas the same in the eighties
Gibson, Tiffany

Topping the chart then
The youth hungered for something
An Appetite grew

And Guns sated it.
History repeats itself
The pendulum swings

I ask: is rock dead?
I answer: no, it's sleeping.
It is Lazarus.


Splash

/Mike

[pilferk]

Mike...that was amazing.  Like "should be published" amazing.  Might be your best work...and that covers a lot.

[FunkyMonkey]

You two seem to have a feud over this topic... not sure why.

The poster has some kind of grudge against me and management for some reason.

/jarmo

That's absurd.  In fact everything else you just posted is as well.

[McGann]

Damn!  That's high praise, Pilf!
Thank you for saying so!
You rock hard, indeed!!

Splash

/Mike

[LIGuns]

The current lineup is the best lineup of GNR ever. Fact.

Love this lineup....But let's not get crazy..The AFD and UYI lineup put out classic albums and toured extensively...This is my favorite lineup since/alongside the "Classic Era(s).....