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Sober_times
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« on: April 14, 2016, 01:00:18 PM »

Well, its a new year so new thread.

Rams made a huge trade with the titans today. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/15201946/tennessee-titans-trade-no-1-pick-los-angeles-rams

Titans get: 2016 15th pick - 43(2nd round), 45(2nd round), 76(3rd round); 2017 1st Rd and 3rd Rd

Rams gets: 2016 No. 1 pick, 113(4th Round), 177(6th round)

Big move for rams.

I'm still on the fence over this trade. Its two 2nd round picks, 2 third round picks, and only 1 first round pick actually given up in total since they swap this year. Not really a bad trade on the rams part. However, they are giving up one first round draft prospect, two 2nd round prospects, 2 3rd round prospects, all for one prospect. I don't know if any potential prospect is worth that much.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 01:02:15 PM by Sober_times » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2016, 01:03:07 PM »

You can ONLY make this trade if you are doing it for a Luck or a Manning...

and by all accounts Wentz and Goff are not that.

So time will tell...

if you're a Titans fan... you have to be over the moon happy...especially since they didn't have a clear cut pick at 1 anyway.
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« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2016, 10:35:41 AM »

With the ridiculous trade the Eagles made...

I didn't even realize they gave Chase Daniel 21 million for three years to now be the third string QB...

Sometimes these teams really make you wonder...
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« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2016, 11:37:47 AM »

I just heard that US Court of Appeals has re-instated Brady's suspension.
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« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2016, 11:52:38 AM »

I just heard that US Court of Appeals has re-instated Brady's suspension.

Yup. 4 games is back on.
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« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2016, 12:38:22 PM »

Brady could appeal to the 2nd Circuit or the Supremes, for those wondering....but chances of them taking a case like this are pretty slim.

Interestingly, in the 2-1 decision today, the only dissenting opinion was NOT that the Goodell didn't have the right to institute the suspension (or that he overstepped his authority at all), but that he didn't consider a lesser, more reasonable, penalty more grounded in league precedent.  Given that dissent...grounds for appeal are even less.  They'd have to argue the US court of appeals fundamentally misunderstood the CBA, pretty much in its entirety, in their ruling.

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« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2016, 12:43:52 PM »

Brady could appeal to the 2nd Circuit or the Supremes, for those wondering....but chances of them taking a case like this are pretty slim.

Interestingly, in the 2-1 decision today, the only dissenting opinion was NOT that the Goodell didn't have the right to institute the suspension (or that he overstepped his authority at all), but that he didn't consider a lesser, more reasonable, penalty more grounded in league precedent.  Given that dissent...grounds for appeal are even less.  They'd have to argue the US court of appeals fundamentally misunderstood the CBA, pretty much in its entirety, in their ruling.


Yeah, it pretty much sounds like the NFL "won" in a landslide here and that Brady's chances from here on out are bleak at best. The NFL gave Goodell this supreme power, so they have to deal with. Like a madman running wild. He can abuse his power and hand out overly harsh penalties at will. It is what it is.
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« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2016, 12:54:15 PM »

Yeah, at this point the Pats should just take the suspension.  Personally I don't agree with him getting 4 games, i think its way overboard, especially since they are yet to prove  he did it.  Look I think we all think he was  most likely "generally  aware", but it should take more than that to get a 4 game suspension.

Either way the Pats should just let this go and get on with it.    Let him miss the first 4 games, they are the Patriots, it's not like they are going to go 0-4 here.  Looking at the schedule they are at worst going to go 2-2 possibly even 3-1 considering how inconsistent Rex Ryan teams are.  The opener against Arizona is going to be a loss, but the other 3 are very winnable games.  Then Brady will come back and will literally scorch the earth like he typically does when he is trying to prove something.  This team might not go 13-3 this year but they are still winning that division, and are favorites to reach the Super Bowl again.
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« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2016, 01:05:16 PM »

Yeah, at this point the Pats should just take the suspension.  Personally I don't agree with him getting 4 games, i think its way overboard, especially since they are yet to prove  he did it.  Look I think we all think he was  most likely "generally  aware", but it should take more than that to get a 4 game suspension.

Either way the Pats should just let this go and get on with it.    Let him miss the first 4 games, they are the Patriots, it's not like they are going to go 0-4 here.  Looking at the schedule they are at worst going to go 2-2 possibly even 3-1 considering how inconsistent Rex Ryan teams are.  The opener against Arizona is going to be a loss, but the other 3 are very winnable games.  Then Brady will come back and will literally scorch the earth like he typically does when he is trying to prove something.  This team might not go 13-3 this year but they are still winning that division, and are favorites to reach the Super Bowl again.
Yeah, as a Pats fan I hate to "give up" after all this. But you have to know when to say when. It looks like an unwinnable situation. I'm preparing myself to see what Jimmy G can do in the first four games. If he plays well, he could increase his trade value and get them a possible first round pick the next year. After seeing what the Eagles and Rams gave up to draft completely unproven QB's, the potential is certainly there. Of course if he doesn't play well, the opposite could be true. They do have 3 home games after opening in Arizona, so that should help soften the blow. I still think they win the AFC East easy. The Steelers could take advantage of those 4 games in terms of having a better record come season's end. I think they're clearly the top 2 teams in the AFC. Not sure what to expect from Denver this year. No other team looks that great
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« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2016, 01:27:09 PM »

Yeah, it pretty much sounds like the NFL "won" in a landslide here and that Brady's chances from here on out are bleak at best. The NFL gave Goodell this supreme power, so they have to deal with. Like a madman running wild. He can abuse his power and hand out overly harsh penalties at will. It is what it is.

That's been my thing right along.

I 100% think he was probably generally aware.  YMMV on that front.

I think the fair penalty in all this is the equipment tampering fine...which is...what...50k per instance at the time? Or was it 20k? Either way, it's a fine somewhere betweek 200k and 500k.  And if you want to cut Brady in directly on something, it's a fine and MAYBE 1 game (and even that I think is overly-tough).

BUT, having said that....the CBA says what it says, and it give Goodell VERY broad authority in the "protection of the game/wellbeing of the game" section.  And so...if he thinks it's 4 game worthy...it's 4 game worthy.

And if the players union dislikes that.....they should bargain it out in the next CBA. All the lawsuits and the suing and shit has to stop.  I get the union, and players, don't like what Goodell has done in some spots..and they've even won a couple times.  But it's GOT TO STOP.  It's bad for the game on BOTH sides, even if the players don't see it.  The NFLPA/players reputation is in the toilet (and so is the NFLs, given the concussion stuff).  This just continues to tarnish both sides.

Figure it out in the next CBA and both sides gotta deal.
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« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2016, 05:19:46 PM »

Brady is supposedly reviewing his options, but it doesn't appear that he's ready to throw in the towel just yet. Again though, his options seem to be limited at this point. I think at one time the NFL MAY have been willing to work together to maybe reduce the suspension, but I think that time has probably passed. Especially since they're in a position of power right now. I don't see why they'd all of a sudden back down at this point.
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« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2016, 08:28:31 PM »

Here are hs options:

1) appeal to the 2nd circuit court of appeals (either a re-hearing by the same panel, or an argument in front of the full court). This is a longshot, given the subject matter. This is not the type of case that they usually take or re-hear, since it involves labor disputes. Its not a criminal or punative civil case.

2) appeal to the supreme court. If 1 is a longshot, ths would be considered the hail mary. I don't see any way this is a constitution case, considering the cba.

3) Quit/retire from the nfl

4) serve his suspension

If he has good lawyers, they will advise him to do #4.  If he has expensive lawyers looking to make a ton of money..they will advise #1....and the case appeal will likely be denied before ever being heard.  The panel would have to see compelling evidence that something was NOT produced during the initial hearing.  The full court would have to conclude the panel acted without full understanding of the CBA.
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« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2016, 09:36:09 AM »

Here are hs options:

1) appeal to the 2nd circuit court of appeals (either a re-hearing by the same panel, or an argument in front of the full court). This is a longshot, given the subject matter. This is not the type of case that they usually take or re-hear, since it involves labor disputes. Its not a criminal or punative civil case.

2) appeal to the supreme court. If 1 is a longshot, ths would be considered the hail mary. I don't see any way this is a constitution case, considering the cba.

3) Quit/retire from the nfl

4) serve his suspension

If he has good lawyers, they will advise him to do #4.  If he has expensive lawyers looking to make a ton of money..they will advise #1....and the case appeal will likely be denied before ever being heard.  The panel would have to see compelling evidence that something was NOT produced during the initial hearing.  The full court would have to conclude the panel acted without full understanding of the CBA.

I know it doesn't work this way, but so far Brady won an appeal and lost an appeal. He's had 2 judges rule in his favor, and 2 against. So there would seem to be some grounds for another appeal to break the tie, in essence. But it seems like a long shot at this point. Especially since Judge Berman has been boxed out from the case going forward. They seem to be going the extra mile to end this once and for all.
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« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2016, 10:33:06 AM »

In theory could they still negotiate a 2 game sit?

The NFL already proved their point... it was their right as per the CBA.

Brady could finally put this to rest and help his team out by taking 2 games instead of 4. It won't make Brady look guilty in the eyes of the public, because he already and forever will be.

I guess both sides are probably too sick of each other and too "proud" to get that done.
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« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2016, 11:33:15 AM »

Here are hs options:

1) appeal to the 2nd circuit court of appeals (either a re-hearing by the same panel, or an argument in front of the full court). This is a longshot, given the subject matter. This is not the type of case that they usually take or re-hear, since it involves labor disputes. Its not a criminal or punative civil case.

2) appeal to the supreme court. If 1 is a longshot, ths would be considered the hail mary. I don't see any way this is a constitution case, considering the cba.

3) Quit/retire from the nfl

4) serve his suspension

If he has good lawyers, they will advise him to do #4.  If he has expensive lawyers looking to make a ton of money..they will advise #1....and the case appeal will likely be denied before ever being heard.  The panel would have to see compelling evidence that something was NOT produced during the initial hearing.  The full court would have to conclude the panel acted without full understanding of the CBA.

I know it doesn't work this way, but so far Brady won an appeal and lost an appeal. He's had 2 judges rule in his favor, and 2 against. So there would seem to be some grounds for another appeal to break the tie, in essence. But it seems like a long shot at this point. Especially since Judge Berman has been boxed out from the case going forward. They seem to be going the extra mile to end this once and for all.

As you noted, it doesn't work that way. 

The higher court over ruled the lower court.

And the dissenting opinion didn't really rule "for" Brady.  He ruled that he thought the NFL should have considered a lesser, more precedent driven, punishment.  That's not exactly ruling "for" Brady....who insists he did nothing wrong and shouldn't have ANY punishment.  The judges dissent is entirely that the NFL has the right to levy punishment to Brady, but that the punishment levied was unfair.

That's the point: There's not much there to try to elevate to a higher court.  You have to find fault with the judgement's basis in the court of appeals, or a constitutional violation.  I think you'd have a hard time finding either.  Certainly, I think it's a tough case to push for a rehearing by the same panel.  And I don't see, in review, the basis for a full court review, which would have to be based on the fact the panel doesn't fully grasp the CBA and missed expressed limits to the NFL Commish's authority.

The Supremes are a pipe dream, IMHO.  I can't see any way it would go to them.
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« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2016, 11:35:09 AM »

In theory could they still negotiate a 2 game sit?

The NFL already proved their point... it was their right as per the CBA.

Brady could finally put this to rest and help his team out by taking 2 games instead of 4. It won't make Brady look guilty in the eyes of the public, because he already and forever will be.

I guess both sides are probably too sick of each other and too "proud" to get that done.

They COULD, but the only reason the NFL would do it is to appear magnanimous and compassionate.  I'm not sure they want to do that.

The ONLY way I can see the NFL being willing to budge is if Brady comes out and admits wrong doing and issues a mea culpa.  THAT might get the NFL to drop a game. MAYBE two if Goodell has had his coffee delievered perfectly by that intern and Mrs. Goodell rocked his world the previous night.
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« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2016, 02:27:02 PM »

In theory could they still negotiate a 2 game sit?

The NFL already proved their point... it was their right as per the CBA.

Brady could finally put this to rest and help his team out by taking 2 games instead of 4. It won't make Brady look guilty in the eyes of the public, because he already and forever will be.

I guess both sides are probably too sick of each other and too "proud" to get that done.

They COULD, but the only reason the NFL would do it is to appear magnanimous and compassionate.  I'm not sure they want to do that.

The ONLY way I can see the NFL being willing to budge is if Brady comes out and admits wrong doing and issues a mea culpa.  THAT might get the NFL to drop a game. MAYBE two if Goodell has had his coffee delievered perfectly by that intern and Mrs. Goodell rocked his world the previous night.
Yeah, I don't see the NFL budging one bit now that they pretty much hold all the cards. The scenario you propose they would probably consider, but I highly doubt Brady would go for it. He's maintained his innocence this whole time, I don't see that changing ever.
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« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2016, 03:20:11 PM »

In theory could they still negotiate a 2 game sit?

The NFL already proved their point... it was their right as per the CBA.

Brady could finally put this to rest and help his team out by taking 2 games instead of 4. It won't make Brady look guilty in the eyes of the public, because he already and forever will be.

I guess both sides are probably too sick of each other and too "proud" to get that done.

They COULD, but the only reason the NFL would do it is to appear magnanimous and compassionate.  I'm not sure they want to do that.

The ONLY way I can see the NFL being willing to budge is if Brady comes out and admits wrong doing and issues a mea culpa.  THAT might get the NFL to drop a game. MAYBE two if Goodell has had his coffee delievered perfectly by that intern and Mrs. Goodell rocked his world the previous night.
Yeah, I don't see the NFL budging one bit now that they pretty much hold all the cards. The scenario you propose they would probably consider, but I highly doubt Brady would go for it. He's maintained his innocence this whole time, I don't see that changing ever.

Yeah, I agree. I should have added that part.  The only way the NFL budges even a little is a scenario that just isn't ever going to happen. Brady, innocent or not, is never, ever going to admit wrongdoing.  He simply can't. His legacy is actually LESS tarnished by serving an onerous (and most people would consider it unfair) suspension and maintain his innocence than it would be for him to. serve LESS games and admit wrongdoing (whether he did or not). 

At the end of the day, Brady's time in the NFL is definitely coming to the end of it's duration.  He might have, what...5 more years? Maybe?  Yeah...no way he would ever admit anything just to drop a couple games off a suspension, in this scenario.
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« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2016, 11:57:56 AM »

Can someone explain to me why Dallas would take an RB at #4?  A top 5 pick? REALLY??  I'm baffled (and I'm a Giants fan).  They needed help in the secondary (a lot), there were better options to be had in that type of player (like, for example Ramsey from Florida State), and as good as Elliot is, he's not GOOD ENOUGH to be worth a top 5 pick compared to what Dallas already has.

Pretty much all the picks in the first round made sense (even the Giants...who ended up just taking the best player left on their board, rather than reaching to fill a need).  But this one made me scratch my head.  In today's NFL...taking an RB in the top 10, even, seems like reach, and a wasted pick.
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« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2016, 12:18:43 PM »

Not overly thrilled with the pick my Steelers made, but there wasn't going to be much left to choose from at #25 anyways Sad
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