The Biden administration (was: The NEW 2020 Election Thread)

[jarmo]

I don't know how you define a "political expert" or what that entails. But I have seen posters over the years that i would consider political experts.

I also know that years ago the political threads on this site were filled with regular debates that were thoughtful and respectful. I saw comments from various people that really made me think and consider different perspectives. that hasn't happened in 4+ years, which is why my expectations are non-existent today. but there was a time....

Political experts, people who have degrees in the subject, and/or work with it.




As an outsider, I've noticed the same thing in your country.

True, some people hated Obama. But it was the more "old style hate". They weren't as open about it.

Then they started going on about how he can't be American.... Then, it was Hillary.

Now, anything goes.




/jarmo

[tim_m]

Ok, for the sake of crying: Are you saying that outsiders didn't interfere with your 2016 presidential election?


If you're against one kind of election fraud, shouldn't everything that doesn't belong in a democratic election be investigated? No matter who did it, who it benefited etc.?

So the Democrats lost in 2016, and they wanted to know what/who had part in that. Certain blame can be put on themselves, but who/what else happened? It's not crying, it's learning...


/jarmo

As usual, he's just trying to gaslight you. We all know that the 2016 election was not secure, and that the GOP spent the entire Trump presidency fighting any kind of investigation into it or attempts to improve security for future elections. Suddenly, the DAY AFTER Trump loses, they are the world's biggest champions of election security and demand investigation.

he set up a voter fraud task force months after his election won and continued to talk about it throughout the past 4 years.

Hey, what ever happened to that task force? Oh yeah, it disbanded with no findings. Trump proves to be a lying sore loser once again.

also, all of your hypocrisy comments can easily be flipped the other way around. for some reason, that really makes you uncomfortable. no idea why that bothers you. but i'll let you in on a little secret....both sides of the political spectrum are loaded with hypocrisy. 

"For some reason, false equivalencies bother you. Can't imagine why" 

as for making myself look better? you think i care what i look like in this garbage can of the online world? This thread is the bottom of the barrel, my friend. lowest of the low. i couldn't care less how i look.

There you go, every time your arguments get obliterated, just claim ironic detachment. 

You're literally the guy who gets his advances rejected and says "I don't care, you're ugly anyway!"

The coping mechanisms are so obvious. Of course, the key difference is that you never saw a Clinton supporter force their way onto a stage and scream "The Trump Crime Family is stealing this election, the media is covering it up! REEEEEE!!!!!"



And of course, Clinton never solicited a mountain of FAKE NEWS affidavits to give her supporters false hope and feed into the kind of very real talks of attempting a coup that are going on right now.

"Eighty and more million of us request that you use the Insurrection Act, Suspend the December Electoral College Vote, and set up Military Tribunals immediately" - Sydney Powell

https://www.thetelegraph.com/news/article/Tweet-encourages-coup-by-Trump-supporters-15795943.php

Michael Flynn tweeted out, two weeks ago, a petition warning that “the threat of a shooting civil war is imminent,” and urging Trump to declare martial law, suspend the Constitution, and order a new Presidential election

The Arizona Republican Party recently sent a tweet asking supporters if they are willing to die to overturn the election results.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/trumps-coup-attempt-isnt-over

You didn't have Democrats leaving their own party in droves because of how anti-American this party of traitors has become:

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/530623-lincoln-project-co-founder-former-new-hampshire-gop-chair-leaving-republican

You didn't have anybody associated with Clinton advocating the barbaric execution of someone who dared counter their lies and propaganda:

“He should be drawn and quartered, taken out at dawn and shot.”

https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/trump-steps-up-terror-threats-in-leadup-to-biden-inauguration/

You also didn't have anything like Trump supporters and Proud Boys stabbing people in DC.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/12/us/4-stabbed-and-one-shot-as-trump-supporters-and-opponents-clash.html

When even a majority of Fox News viewers feel Trump is "weakening Democracy", you cannot any longer deny the reality that this is not remotely comparable to any previous election. At least, not without being a complete loon divorced from reality because you simply can't cope with your candidate losing. Which it turns out a shit ton of Trump supporters are.

https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2020/12/Fox_December-6-9-2020_National_Topline_December-11-Release.pdf

SOME on this board treat their online persona very seriously, and are constantly trying to "OWN" others. ironically, they do that while accusing the other side of trying to "own the libs", despite no evidence to support those claims. i can only imagine how sad and empty their personal lives must be. it's a shame.

Aww, look who's playing the victim card again! I play one obvious little trick on you and all of the sudden the king of "gotchas" is running home crying foul to mommy. You and Blutarsky were dancing in the end zone, spiking the football thinking you got me before I revealed the trap. Everyone knows you care deeply, kiddo.

You know, you really can't make the gaslighting attempts as obvious as saying "SOME people are obsessed with "owning" others, what a bunch of sad little losers, right? Haha, OWNED!"

What's truly sad is that you think it actually takes effort on our end to discredit your weak excuses.

Don't forget about the Republican candidate for governor in Virginia calling for martial law.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

I was here back in the day and I concur it was different. And there was a lot more of us engaged in political discussions.

I agree, the Trump administration really lowered the bar for political discourse.

Trump isn't responsible for how we behave on here.

Social media and how we have been conditioned by it plays a big factor in general with society regarding how we interact with each other..

[jarmo]

The president isn't personally responsible for peoples' behaviors.

But the way he talks, treats people who don't agree with him etc. makes it "ok" for others to do the same.







/jarmo

[PermissionToLand]

“We want them infected.”

https://truthout.org/articles/did-trump-deliberately-pursue-genocide-via-his-herd-immunity-strategy/

U.S. whistleblower was pressed to exaggerate leftist role in urban protests, lawyer says

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN28R33L?il=0

"Wolf also asked Murphy to play down U.S. white supremacist activity, the complaint said."

The administration of "the least racist person you have ever met", ladies and gents. Remember this next time some radical rightist tries to call you crazy for calling out Trump's racism and open defense of white supremacists. Just look at how Sandman bent over backwards trying to defend his Charlottseville comments (words) while completely ignoring actual substantive support he is giving white supremacy.

[PermissionToLand]

Trump isn't responsible for how we behave on here.

Social media and how we have been conditioned by it plays a big factor in general with society regarding how we interact with each other..

I didn't say he was, I said he lowered the bar. When the leader of the free world calls the troops "suckers", other countries "shitholes", women "dogs" and "bitches", sells "fuck your feelings" and "make liberals cry" T-shirts, its going to have an effect on the discourse, and not a positive one. No other president has used such dehumanizing language of "thugs", "dogs", and "animals infesting our country". If we've learned anything from history, it's that comparing human beings to animals is how the public is acclimated to violence against other humans. When the Third Reich's Ministry of Propaganda put out pamphlets comparing Jewish people to rats, it was a purposeful campaign to dehumanize them. We all know where that lead.

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/5/17/17364562/trump-dog-omarosa-dehumanization-psychology

Funny how it's always "the media's" fault. No personal responsibility taken. Who owns these media companies? Radical right wingers like Rupert Murdoch and other wealthy elites whose only concern is profit, not journalistic integrity. It wasn't some liberal blogger in California or college student on Twitter that decided the news had to make a profit now, it was Capitalism. But the media did not substantively change in the past four years. It's been that way for decades. Only the presidency did.

[tim_m]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2020/12/19/trump-reportedly-asked-advisors-about-deploying-military-to-overturn-election/?sh=63d0df94ce2b

Trump Reportedly Asked Advisors About Deploying Military To Overturn Election. Nothing to see here, nope. 
.

[jarmo]

People have been told Antifa is the problem, they're the ones people need to be scared of.

Anti-fascism exists because of right wing extremists... It's like saying the French resistance was evil. Yet, didn't they exist because the nazis invaded their country?


Yes, anarchists and such have existed before. But when you got people yelling Jews will not replace us! openly on the streets of the country, don't be surprised if someone will oppose and protest!





/jarmo

[pilferk]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2020/12/19/trump-reportedly-asked-advisors-about-deploying-military-to-overturn-election/?sh=63d0df94ce2b

Trump Reportedly Asked Advisors About Deploying Military To Overturn Election. Nothing to see here, nope. 
.

And interviewing with whack jobs to be special counsel on voter fraud that didn't exist.

[tim_m]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2020/12/19/trump-reportedly-asked-advisors-about-deploying-military-to-overturn-election/?sh=63d0df94ce2b

Trump Reportedly Asked Advisors About Deploying Military To Overturn Election. Nothing to see here, nope. 
.

And interviewing with whack jobs to be special counsel on voter fraud that didn't exist.

And you got Rudy asking about seizing voting machines. Now Trump wants Powell on his team. We need to start calling this every it is, sedition.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Trump isn't responsible for how we behave on here.

Social media and how we have been conditioned by it plays a big factor in general with society regarding how we interact with each other..

I didn't say he was, I said he lowered the bar. When the leader of the free world calls the troops "suckers", other countries "shitholes", women "dogs" and "bitches", sells "fuck your feelings" and "make liberals cry" T-shirts, its going to have an effect on the discourse, and not a positive one. No other president has used such dehumanizing language of "thugs", "dogs", and "animals infesting our country". If we've learned anything from history, it's that comparing human beings to animals is how the public is acclimated to violence against other humans. When the Third Reich's Ministry of Propaganda put out pamphlets comparing Jewish people to rats, it was a purposeful campaign to dehumanize them. We all know where that lead.

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/5/17/17364562/trump-dog-omarosa-dehumanization-psychology

Funny how it's always "the media's" fault. No personal responsibility taken. Who owns these media companies? Radical right wingers like Rupert Murdoch and other wealthy elites whose only concern is profit, not journalistic integrity. It wasn't some liberal blogger in California or college student on Twitter that decided the news had to make a profit now, it was Capitalism. But the media did not substantively change in the past four years. It's been that way for decades. Only the presidency did.

The Trump-Nazi comparisons are getting a bit tired. Wasn't Bush 43 supposed to be a Nazi? I guess it really doesn't matter, any Republican President will be called one. Even if their son in law, daughter and grand-kids are Jewish. And last I looked,  Zuckerberg, Bezos and Jack Dorsey  were not radical right wingers. 



 

[jarmo]

The Trump-Nazi comparisons are getting a bit tired.

Are you saying he doesn't have tendencies that are extremely right wing autocrat tendencies?




/jarmo

[Dr. Blutarsky]

The Trump-Nazi comparisons are getting a bit tired.

Are you saying he doesn't have tendencies that are extremely right wing autocrat tendencies?




/jarmo

I am not sure exactly what actions would be considered extremely right wing autocrat or what the definition of an extremely right wing autocrat is.

[jarmo]

I am not sure exactly what actions would be considered extremely right wing autocrat or what the definition of an extremely right wing autocrat is.

Attacking free media and making them out to be the enemy of the people?

Using force to get rid off protestors so you can pose for photos in front of a church?

Asking a foreign leader for a "favor" before you help them with military aid?

Refusing to accept a democratic election result, but you accepted it when you won?


The first few things that came to mind and didn't take more than a minute to type... 




/jarmo

[PermissionToLand]

The Trump-Nazi comparisons are getting a bit tired. Wasn't Bush 43 supposed to be a Nazi? I guess it really doesn't matter, any Republican President will be called one. Even if their son in law, daughter and grand-kids are Jewish.

Amazing how you make this comment immediately after it comes out that Trump wanted to declare martial law to violate democracy and destroy America as we know it. I have never in my life seen such reprehensible excuses for treasonous behavior before. If you're tired of your leader being called a Fascist, take some personal responsibility and actually FIGHT against the authoritarian tendencies he is displaying, instead of making pathetic excuses and gaslighting the other side by suggesting they would call a squirrel racist. You know that's horseshit as well as I do.

The fact that Trump aligns with Fascist ideology has been said by leading historical authorities. When you have to accuse all of the actual experts of being hysterical liberals in order to defend your movement's authoritarianism, you are in denial, period.

"Regardless of whether one thinks Trump merits the word "fascist," the US president has undoubtedly embraced fascist politics, trading in fear of the foreign other and the enemy within."

"The fascist ideologue is someone who is always painting his opponents, no matter how centrist they are, as a "commie." (Note: Sound familiar? Biden is somehow a conservative war-monger who singlehandedly created the war on drugs, but at the same time, is a radical Socialist who stole the election with the help of Hugo Chavez's corpse)

"When you set up a system of prisons, of camps — when you have a secret police, essentially, that the administration can deploy, that's independent of local control there's going to be a temptation to use it also against domestic political opponents. And when that organization has been trained to treat people inhumanely, to treat people as gang members and terrorists, well then they're going to treat American citizens that way."

"Trumpism involves a cult of the leader, and Trump embodies that. I certainly think he’s using fascist political tactics. I think there’s no question about that. He is calling for national restoration in the face of humiliations brought on by immigrants, liberals, liberal minorities, and leftists. He’s certainly playing the fascist playbook."

"What we have is this fascist politics — of the "crazed leftists who are going to destroy our civilization". "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" had Jews at its base; the idea was Jews were behind communism. And what we have now is the idea that, you know, there are these leftists everywhere, in our universities and the press, and they're fomenting rebellion."

https://www.businessinsider.com/is-trump-fascist-jason-stanley-says-it-is-wrong-question-2020-7

I also can't help but notice that you fail to even attempt rebutting my argument. You just summarily dismiss it because you have no counter-argument as to why his dehumanizing language not comparable to language of Fascist movements. You never addressed my point at all because you can't. He does use dehumanizing language and that is a distinct feature of violent authoritarian leaders throughout history. These are facts you cannot dispute. Deluding yourself into thinking "it could never happen here" and hand-waving away anyone drawing attention to attempts to build a Fascist movement, is a surefire way to ensure that is does happen here.

I mean, if you want to defend the idea that Trump does not display any signs of Fascism, let's hash it out. We can go through the tenets of Fascism one-by-one. But I think we both know that would not bode well for your stance.

And last I looked,  Zuckerberg, Bezos and Jack Dorsey  were not radical right wingers. 

Only from a deeply partisan right wing perspective could Capitalist billionaires consolidating their respective industries into oligopolies be seen as anything other than conservatives, simply because they pay lip service to progressive social issues. Have you ever even stopped to wonder why that is? Because America is a socially liberal country and their only concern being profit, their PR should then reflect popular opinion. But Jeff Bezos is vehemently anti-union. They are not remotely progressive in any way that would actually materially impact the country. You've fallen for the tricks of 20-somethings with BAs in Marketing.

[tim_m]

The Trump-Nazi comparisons are getting a bit tired. Wasn't Bush 43 supposed to be a Nazi? I guess it really doesn't matter, any Republican President will be called one. Even if their son in law, daughter and grand-kids are Jewish.

Amazing how you make this comment immediately after it comes out that Trump wanted to declare martial law to violate democracy and destroy America as we know it. I have never in my life seen such reprehensible excuses for treasonous behavior before. If you're tired of your leader being called a Fascist, take some personal responsibility and actually FIGHT against the authoritarian tendencies he is displaying, instead of making pathetic excuses and gaslighting the other side by suggesting they would call a squirrel racist. You know that's horseshit as well as I do.

The fact that Trump aligns with Fascist ideology has been said by leading historical authorities. When you have to accuse all of the actual experts of being hysterical liberals in order to defend your movement's authoritarianism, you are in denial, period.

"Regardless of whether one thinks Trump merits the word "fascist," the US president has undoubtedly embraced fascist politics, trading in fear of the foreign other and the enemy within."

"The fascist ideologue is someone who is always painting his opponents, no matter how centrist they are, as a "commie." (Note: Sound familiar? Biden is somehow a conservative war-monger who singlehandedly created the war on drugs, but at the same time, is a radical Socialist who stole the election with the help of Hugo Chavez's corpse)

"When you set up a system of prisons, of camps — when you have a secret police, essentially, that the administration can deploy, that's independent of local control there's going to be a temptation to use it also against domestic political opponents. And when that organization has been trained to treat people inhumanely, to treat people as gang members and terrorists, well then they're going to treat American citizens that way."

"Trumpism involves a cult of the leader, and Trump embodies that. I certainly think he’s using fascist political tactics. I think there’s no question about that. He is calling for national restoration in the face of humiliations brought on by immigrants, liberals, liberal minorities, and leftists. He’s certainly playing the fascist playbook."

"What we have is this fascist politics — of the "crazed leftists who are going to destroy our civilization". "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" had Jews at its base; the idea was Jews were behind communism. And what we have now is the idea that, you know, there are these leftists everywhere, in our universities and the press, and they're fomenting rebellion."

https://www.businessinsider.com/is-trump-fascist-jason-stanley-says-it-is-wrong-question-2020-7

I also can't help but notice that you fail to even attempt rebutting my argument. You just summarily dismiss it because you have no counter-argument as to why his dehumanizing language not comparable to language of Fascist movements. You never addressed my point at all because you can't. He does use dehumanizing language and that is a distinct feature of violent authoritarian leaders throughout history. These are facts you cannot dispute. Deluding yourself into thinking "it could never happen here" and hand-waving away anyone drawing attention to attempts to build a Fascist movement, is a surefire way to ensure that is does happen here.

I mean, if you want to defend the idea that Trump does not display any signs of Fascism, let's hash it out. We can go through the tenets of Fascism one-by-one. But I think we both know that would not bode well for your stance.

And last I looked,  Zuckerberg, Bezos and Jack Dorsey  were not radical right wingers.  

Only from a deeply partisan right wing perspective could Capitalist billionaires consolidating their respective industries into oligopolies be seen as anything other than conservatives, simply because they pay lip service to progressive social issues. Have you ever even stopped to wonder why that is? Because America is a socially liberal country and their only concern being profit, their PR should then reflect popular opinion. But Jeff Bezos is vehemently anti-union. They are not remotely progressive in any way that would actually materially impact the country. You've fallen for the tricks of 20-somethings with BAs in Marketing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwzwRCrHBxU Boom!

[PermissionToLand]

Beau is great. The kind of guy that conservatives would highly respect if they actually believed in any of the things they claim to.

[pilferk]

I am not sure exactly what actions would be considered extremely right wing autocrat or what the definition of an extremely right wing autocrat is.

Attacking free media and making them out to be the enemy of the people?

Using force to get rid off protestors so you can pose for photos in front of a church?

Asking a foreign leader for a "favor" before you help them with military aid?

Refusing to accept a democratic election result, but you accepted it when you won?


The first few things that came to mind and didn't take more than a minute to type...  




/jarmo

They're never going to address the substance, jarmo.

They're always going to concentrate on the terminology.

It's their disingenuous deflection tactic because they know that giving voice to defend what every conservative knows is meant when referring to trump this way makes them look bad.  Or like a whack job. Or both.

They'd rather argue semantics, or clutch their pearls and play dumb, to deflect from the actual substance of what Trump has been, and is, doing.  

More blind partisanship and hypocrisy.

[jarmo]

Some people are fine with him, the way he behaves and disrespects every rule and norm there was.

Because he's not the other guy. But that begs the question, where do you draw the line?

What qualities would make you not vote for someone? Is the only rule the go by "as long as they're not Democrat"?



It's not anything Us specific though. People do this all over the world. Candidates who talk disrespectfully of women get plenty of votes from women etc etc.




/jarmo

[tim_m]

Beau is great. The kind of guy that conservatives would highly respect if they actually believed in any of the things they claim to.

They'd actually agree with it all if it was put in a way they'd understand. Every single one of the things he mentioned has happened the last 4 years. They just can't see it because of their blind devotion to Trump.