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Author Topic: The Biden administration (was: The NEW 2020 Election Thread)  (Read 83634 times)
PermissionToLand
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« Reply #920 on: October 26, 2020, 01:27:19 AM »

I can't even keep up with how many blatant attempts at election fraud Republicans have been caught in, just this past month.

You had the fake ballot boxes in CA set up by local GOP party establishment (not just some rogue individuals).

You had Trump encouraging people to "vote twice" from the biggest platform in America.

You had a Trump supporting mailman hoard and throw out mail-in votes in PA (a swing state).

And you had a West Virginia postal service worker plead guilty to attempting to defraud the state's citizens of a fair election after he changed the party registration of five primary election absentee ballot requests from Democrat to Republican.

And now, this:

Mike Huckabee tweets about filling out dead relatives’ absentee ballots

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/mike-huckabee-tweets-about-filling-out-dead-relatives-absentee-ballots-and-key-federal-election-commission-member-doesnt-find-it-funny-11603645576

You know, it should terrify everyone of all political stripes when things like this happen. When one party is going off the rails and actively undermining Democracy, it is the responsibility of the people within that party to stop enabling it. Personal responsibility matters. Anyone who allows the continued destruction of this great nation by Trump simply because he gives them the tax cuts they want and he "triggers the libs" cannot pretend to distinguish their self from those who actively undermine democracy. By voting for Trump, you are complicit. This behavior has no place in a democratic society.

It should be a wake-up call when even Republicans, like George W Bush's former speechwriter, are saying this:

"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy." - David Frum
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 01:29:00 AM by PermissionToLand » Logged
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« Reply #921 on: October 26, 2020, 04:35:11 AM »

As for the Senate, we should go back to the way it was in the constitution. Where they were selected by state legislatures.

I don't know about that; people don't really pay much attention to state legislatures, which makes them easy for a dedicated minority interest group to capture outsized influence within. And in practice, that tends to be Christian conservatives. That's why so many state legislatures were swept by right wing candidates in the 2010s. They're also cheaper/easier to buy off than Senate elections.

And so many state legislatures, governorships and supreme courts being republican held is why everyone should be very worried about Trump taking swing state elections to the courts. Out of the four likely swing states, only ONE (PA) has a Dem held court.

I definitely get your concerns about that, but the reason it was done that way in the constitution was because they thought it was the best way they'd be impartial. It probably wouldn't work as well these days.
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« Reply #922 on: October 26, 2020, 04:38:10 AM »

I can't even keep up with how many blatant attempts at election fraud Republicans have been caught in, just this past month.

You had the fake ballot boxes in CA set up by local GOP party establishment (not just some rogue individuals).

You had Trump encouraging people to "vote twice" from the biggest platform in America.

You had a Trump supporting mailman hoard and throw out mail-in votes in PA (a swing state).

And you had a West Virginia postal service worker plead guilty to attempting to defraud the state's citizens of a fair election after he changed the party registration of five primary election absentee ballot requests from Democrat to Republican.

And now, this:

Mike Huckabee tweets about filling out dead relatives’ absentee ballots

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/mike-huckabee-tweets-about-filling-out-dead-relatives-absentee-ballots-and-key-federal-election-commission-member-doesnt-find-it-funny-11603645576

You know, it should terrify everyone of all political stripes when things like this happen. When one party is going off the rails and actively undermining Democracy, it is the responsibility of the people within that party to stop enabling it. Personal responsibility matters. Anyone who allows the continued destruction of this great nation by Trump simply because he gives them the tax cuts they want and he "triggers the libs" cannot pretend to distinguish their self from those who actively undermine democracy. By voting for Trump, you are complicit. This behavior has no place in a democratic society.

It should be a wake-up call when even Republicans, like George W Bush's former speechwriter, are saying this:

"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy." - David Frum

And it gets even worse, after we get rid of this malfeasant narcissistic asshole people will need years of deprograming.

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/fire-set-to-ballot-drop-box-in-bostons-copley-square-disgrace-to-democracy/2218074/
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 04:43:07 AM by tim_m » Logged
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« Reply #923 on: October 26, 2020, 07:04:28 AM »


I don't know where you get this lucid and clear Biden impression from though. I still don't see it in the man and he sounds confused more often than not.


The man struggles with a life long stutter.  He's not confused.  Stumbling over his words, and pausing to control his stutter, are trademarks of Biden's oratory style since...well...the 80's.

He cites policy and figures constantly, and in context.  That's being lucid.
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« Reply #924 on: October 26, 2020, 07:17:34 AM »

I thought Biden threw Obama under the bus a couple of times with his "I wasn't president" remarks.  If he didn't agree with some of the things that didn't work out with that administration, what did he not agree with that did work out?  

He's talked about that stuff in other forums.  There wasn't really time to enumerate every single time they agreed or disagreed.  Obama has said he WANTED Joe in the room during decision making because he wanted people to argue counterpoints with him. 

Quote
He admitted to the problems with Obama care, plans to fix those and call it Biden care.  That's some ego.
He wouldn't call it anything.  He's just offering the comparison.  Republicans named it Obamacare. 

I wonder: Did you think the same when Trump, very briefly, referred to his "big beautiful plan" (that doesn't exist) Trumpcare?

Quote
  How long does it take to charge a car?

New EVs have rapidcharge capability so that question is hard to answer.  V1 and V2 Superchargers said 20min for 50%.  That's gotten and is getting better.

Quote
I'm thinking about cable/cell phone companies, all the equipment for that wasn't put out there by the government, it was the companies who did that.

Ahh...might want to check that out.  Cell towers were heavily funded via tax breaks (state and federal) and grant money.  Cable and landline phone infrastructure was almost entirely taxpayer funded, as well.  If it hadn't been, rural areas would not have gotten service, because it wasn't cost effective to do so.

Now, the monopoly cable and "bell decendent" companies own the infrastructure now....which has stifled competition.

Quote
 What are the companies who would do that saying about this push forward and the timelines?  I had a lot of questions about how his vision is going to happen.

They're frothing at the mouth.  Because they know the US Government will build the infrastructure...and then sell it to companies for pennies on the dollar.  They'll get fully working infrastrucutre to "administrate".

Quote
I thought Trump did well but was lacking in how he's actually going to do stuff too.  I liked his comment about leaving the minimum wage amount up to the states although he didn't say that at first.  Cost of living in different parts of the country is way different.  His talking about little windows wasn't right.  All the buildings I see use passive solar energy and the windows are huge, shaded in the summer but you still have a nice view out.  Using the word nasty to describe other countries was offensive, polluted would have been better.

Because he has zero actual idea what he's talking about.  I mean...his comments on wind were actually idiotic.
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« Reply #925 on: October 26, 2020, 07:17:52 AM »


I don't know where you get this lucid and clear Biden impression from though. I still don't see it in the man and he sounds confused more often than not.


The man struggles with a life long stutter.  He's not confused.  Stumbling over his words, and pausing to control his stutter, are trademarks of Biden's oratory style since...well...the 80's.

He cites policy and figures constantly, and in context.  That's being lucid.

He does sometimes get numbers wrong but i attribute that also to his speech impediment.
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« Reply #926 on: October 26, 2020, 07:23:31 AM »

This is what I'm used to:

You get an envelope in the mail with the paperwork you need to bring to vote. Also included is information on how to.

Depending on the election, you can vote in advance by taking the paperwork and ID to the advance voting place. If you choose, you can also vote on election day.


Whenf I vote in the Finnish elections, it's the same deal. I get an envelope and it also includes the dates and places where I can vote here in Sweden (the dates usually fall on weekends. This is advance voting because it's abroad).


But yeah, not very difficult. You just gotta bring the paperwork and ID to the right place on the right date.




/jarmo





So, here's the problem:

None of us can provide a description to you for all of us. 

Each of our voting processes, including when, how far in advance, and how we can vote will be different based on the state we're in.

Some states really push mail in voting, and voting in advance.  Some (like the state I'm in) have, historically, focused on same day voting.  In elections past, mail in voting in our state could only be done if you were abroad or had some sort of (very narrowly defined) barrier to you voting in person.  And you could not vote early.

This year they've made mail in voting more accessible.  But you still can't vote in person til election day.

In our town,  use optical reader sheets (aka "bubble tests") and a scanner.  They can be confusing and their error rate is generally high.
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« Reply #927 on: October 26, 2020, 07:24:20 AM »


I don't know where you get this lucid and clear Biden impression from though. I still don't see it in the man and he sounds confused more often than not.


The man struggles with a life long stutter.  He's not confused.  Stumbling over his words, and pausing to control his stutter, are trademarks of Biden's oratory style since...well...the 80's.

He cites policy and figures constantly, and in context.  That's being lucid.

He does sometimes get numbers wrong but i attribute that also to his speech impediment.

They all do. Even Obama did.   And you'll see him stumble over numbers and have to correct them...that's the stutter.
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« Reply #928 on: October 26, 2020, 07:32:57 AM »

Not sure what tim_m is talking about but what you (jarmo) described is basically how it normally works in the USA. Actually, it's easier than what you describe because here you can request an "absentee ballot" even if you live in the same place where you would vote in person, or if you're living in another state or living outside the USA or if you're in the military, etc., and you just mail it in. As long as it's postmarked by midnight of election day, it's counted. If choose to vote in person, normally you get your sample ballot through the mail that lists the location of where you are to vote. There they match your signature/ID to your signature/ID on file and then you vote by whatever method is available there.

I'm sorry but...none of that is true.

1) In the US, you have to register.  jarmo does not.

2) You have to request an absentee ballot, which can be a right old pain in the ass depending on the state. And, in years past, "absentee" meant abroad.  Not just "I want to vote by mail". Access to "vote by mail" could be permissive or restrictive depending on the state.  jarmo does not have to deal with any of that.  They just mail him a ballot. Every election.

3) What ballots are accepted and when depends on the state.  Some say "postmarked by the election and received within 3 days".  Some say "arrive by the date of the election".  Some say other things.  It's different in every state and not nearly as clear cut as you are describing.  With jarmo, that's not true.  It's the same across his whole country, and it's intuitively clear.

4) Voter ID varies from state to state.  In CT, for example, you are not required to present ID to vote.  They'll ask, but you don't have to.  In other states, voter id is required.  I don't believe jarmo is required to provide any sort of ID to vote.  His ballot is his ID. And even if he does have to provide ID [edit: he does], there is one, consistent, requirement for his entire country.  No confusion.

tim very fairly, and very accurately, portrayed the voting process.  It is overly complicated, different from state to state, and often requires inconvenient action to be taken by the voter to participate...and that's done specifically to repress and disenfranchise voters.  jarmo doesn't have to do anything other than fill out and send/drop off his ballot.  No registration, no request, no jumping through hoops.  

The process is not remotely the same.

Quote
You (jarmo) probably forgot that you had to have registered to vote at some point in time because how else would they have your address to mail you the paperwork and voting location/instructions?

Many countries have automatic voting registration.  The government already has their information for other purposes (taxes, medical insurance, etc).  It's not hard to get them a ballot.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 12:37:50 PM by pilferk » Logged

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« Reply #929 on: October 26, 2020, 07:41:53 AM »

Not sure what tim_m is talking about but what you (jarmo) described is basically how it normally works in the USA. Actually, it's easier than what you describe because here you can request an "absentee ballot" even if you live in the same place where you would vote in person, or if you're living in another state or living outside the USA or if you're in the military, etc., and you just mail it in. As long as it's postmarked by midnight of election day, it's counted. If choose to vote in person, normally you get your sample ballot through the mail that lists the location of where you are to vote. There they match your signature/ID to your signature/ID on file and then you vote by whatever method is available there.

I'm sorry but...none of that is true.

1) In the US, you have to register.  jarmo does not.

2) You have to request an absentee ballot, which can be a right old pain in the ass depending on the state. jarmo does not.

3) What ballots are accepted and when depends on the state.  Some say "postmarked by the election and received within 3 days".  Some say "arrive by the date of the election".  Some say other things.  It's different in every state and not nearly as clear cut as you are describing.  With jarmo, that's not true.  It's the same across his country, and it's intuitively clear.

4) Voter ID varies from state to state.  In CT, for example, you are not required to present ID to vote.  They'll ask, but you don't have to.  In other states, voter id is required.  I don't believe jarmo is required to provide any sort of ID to vote.  His ballot is his ID.

tim very fairly, and very accurately, portrayed the voting process.  It is overly complicated...and that's done specifically to repress and disenfranchise voters. 

Quote
You (jarmo) probably forgot that you had to have registered to vote at some point in time because how else would they have your address to mail you the paperwork and voting location/instructions?

Many countries have automatic voting registration.  The government already has their information for other purposes (taxes, medical insurance, etc).  It's not hard to get them a ballot.
You do actually need your ID in both Finland and Sweden.
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« Reply #930 on: October 26, 2020, 07:45:51 AM »

You do actually need your ID in both Finland and Sweden.

Fair enough.  But again, at least it's one standard across the entire country.

In the US, ID requirements vary. It's not as simple, or as similar, as Gypsy tried to make it.  The only real similarity is that ballots are filled out and submitted. 
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« Reply #931 on: October 26, 2020, 07:50:11 AM »

You do actually need your ID in both Finland and Sweden.

Fair enough.  But again, at least it's one standard across the entire country.

In the US, ID requirements vary. It's not as simple, or as similar, as Gypsy tried to make it.  The only real similarity is that ballots are filled out and submitted. 

Yep allowing states to set their own rules has made it a mess. I understand states rights but it should be more unform across the country. We have to stop the suppression too which disproportionally affects minorities.
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« Reply #932 on: October 26, 2020, 07:51:12 AM »


I don't know where you get this lucid and clear Biden impression from though. I still don't see it in the man and he sounds confused more often than not.


The man struggles with a life long stutter.  He's not confused.  Stumbling over his words, and pausing to control his stutter, are trademarks of Biden's oratory style since...well...the 80's.

He cites policy and figures constantly, and in context.  That's being lucid.

I'm not talking about stutter.
If it were a younger better speaker fighting him for the chance to beat Trump - you would still be saying "He's not confused"?
Hard to believe that.
Sorry - not buying it.
You are a very intelligent person - who comes with facts to these conversations - but on this one I sense you are reaching -
He is not confused? It's his stutter?

The man is asked direct questions and stares into space for 4 seconds to find his thoughts a lot of the time.
He's well past any prime he may have had on the sharp and lucid level -
He's just what you have now to replace Trump - so we hear how great he did in the debates and how it's incorrect to "think" he's not all there anymore because he stutters.

I think we all deal with people everyday who we know are "lucid and clear"
This ain't it.

Just my read - not the same as yours obviously.
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« Reply #933 on: October 26, 2020, 08:03:28 AM »

I'm not talking about stutter.
If it were a younger better speaker fighting him for the chance to beat Trump - you would still be saying "He's not confused"?
Hard to believe that.
Sorry - not buying it.
You are a very intelligent person - who comes with facts to these conversations - but on this one I sense you are reaching -
He is not confused? It's his stutter?

The man is asked direct questions and stares into space for 4 seconds to find his thoughts a lot of the time.
He's well past any prime he may have had on the sharp and lucid level -
He's just what you have now to replace Trump - so we hear how great he did in the debates and how it's incorrect to "think" he's not all there anymore because he stutters.

I think we all deal with people everyday who we know are "lucid and clear"
This ain't it.

Just my read - not the same as yours obviously.

See, here's the thing.  I think you ARE talking about him struggling with his stutter.  You've just been told it's something else.  How experienced are you with observing someone like that?

Show me some examples, from the debate, where he was asked a question and stared off into space for 4 seconds.

Watch the VP debate from 2012.

"800 million..billion...dollars".

You see the same sort of stumbles you see now.  You (global you) see a younger man, and you discount them because of what you see.

But they are still there.  

Not much has changed in Biden's cadence, language stumbles, or oratory style in the past 10 years.
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« Reply #934 on: October 26, 2020, 02:08:15 PM »

So you have an election to choose the president of the country, but every state gets to decide how they wanna run this election?

Shouldn't there be a standard?




/jarmo
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« Reply #935 on: October 26, 2020, 03:03:05 PM »

So you have an election to choose the president of the country, but every state gets to decide how they wanna run this election?

Shouldn't there be a standard?

/jarmo


Remember, we are not a democracy.  We are a democratic, constitutional, republic.

Since electoral votes actually belong to states, EVERY national election is actually a collection of state elections to determine who those state's electoral votes go to.

So, yes. Every state gets to make their own rules.  There is a set of general federal requirements, but the specifics are left to each state.

And yes, I think there should be a national standard, as well as a national holiday.

You will find most conservatives disagree.
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« Reply #936 on: October 26, 2020, 03:58:24 PM »

I'm not talking about stutter.
If it were a younger better speaker fighting him for the chance to beat Trump - you would still be saying "He's not confused"?
Hard to believe that.
Sorry - not buying it.
You are a very intelligent person - who comes with facts to these conversations - but on this one I sense you are reaching -
He is not confused? It's his stutter?

The man is asked direct questions and stares into space for 4 seconds to find his thoughts a lot of the time.
He's well past any prime he may have had on the sharp and lucid level -
He's just what you have now to replace Trump - so we hear how great he did in the debates and how it's incorrect to "think" he's not all there anymore because he stutters.

I think we all deal with people everyday who we know are "lucid and clear"
This ain't it.

Just my read - not the same as yours obviously.

So nobody you deal with on a daily basis ever stumbles over words? Sorry, not buying it.

Nobody questions Obama's mental acuity, so it's very easy to overlook stumbles that people jump all over Biden for. Obama speaks slowly, but that's accepted as part of his style. If Biden speaks slowly, he's losing it? Come on. For example:

"How many people - anybody here voted, uh, early already? Just - If you haven't, just go to iwillvote.com"

https://youtu.be/IQnlnk6Y7Kk?t=129

Two sentences in a row, he started a sentence and then stopped mid-way through to rephrase it. A very common thing for people to do.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 04:06:52 PM by PermissionToLand » Logged
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« Reply #937 on: October 26, 2020, 04:53:07 PM »

Trump supporter pulls gun on teens after allegedly being splashed with water

https://www.dailydot.com/debug/trump-supporter-gun-teens-water-video/

These people just keep making the case for taking their guns away. This is what happens when the President of the United States shows zero self-control and stokes division from the bully pulpit. This is what happens when the President refers to anyone who disagrees with him as "the enemy of the people" and "radical anarchist antifa terrorists". His supporters then feel justified in treating anyone who disagrees with them as an enemy to be eradicated. This is well-documented as a tactic of Fascist governments.

From Umberto Eco's Ur-Fascism (defining traits of Fascism):

  • Disagreement Is Treason – Fascism devalues intellectual discourse and critical reasoning as barriers to action, as well as out of fear that such analysis will expose the contradictions embodied in a syncretistic faith.
  • Fascist societies rhetorically cast their enemies as "at the same time too strong and too weak." On the one hand, fascists play up the power of certain disfavored elites to encourage in their followers a sense of grievance and humiliation. On the other hand, fascist leaders point to the decadence of those elites as proof of their ultimate feebleness in the face of an overwhelming popular will.

From Yale philosophy professor Jason Stanley:

"The leader proposes that only he can solve it and all of his political opponents are enemies or traitors."

And finally, Jean-Paul Sartre:

"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."

The obvious falseness of Trump's statements is not a bug, it's a feature. It's the same reason why Putin said "there are no troops in Ukraine", and shortly thereafter, "Of course we have troops in Ukraine". It's a display of power to show that they are unrestrained by even the bounds of reality.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 05:00:56 PM by PermissionToLand » Logged
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« Reply #938 on: October 26, 2020, 08:26:20 PM »

Wow, never heard of this:

If Prop D passes this fall, the city would implement an open primary system. Under it, voters could choose any and all candidates they approve of for a given office. Then, in the general election, the top two vote-getters for that office would compete in a runoff.

Not sure how that works or even what to make of that.  You could have two people from the same party running against each other and the other parties not even represented.  I think that only affects local elections.
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« Reply #939 on: October 26, 2020, 10:10:04 PM »

Federal Prosecution of Child Sex Trafficking Significantly Declined Under Trump Administration: Report

https://www.thedailybeast.com/federal-prosecution-of-child-sex-trafficking-significantly-declined-under-trump-administration-report-says
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