Axl's voice. Everything about it.

[Carlos Gunner]

What is your opinion about it?

Past and Present.

[sky dog]

1991 is a long time ago….let it go.

[PermissionToLand]

I have always been confused why it changed so much when he was not touring at all from 1994-1999. You'd think any damage would be done on tour, and be evident by the end of it. But he sounded possibly the best he ever has in 1993 on the Skin N Bones leg. Why would it change when he is at rest? I've noticed the same thing with Brian Johnson, too.

[GNR4LIFEJD]

I have always been confused why it changed so much when he was not touring at all from 1994-1999. You'd think any damage would be done on tour, and be evident by the end of it. But he sounded possibly the best he ever has in 1993 on the Skin N Bones leg. Why would it change when he is at rest? I've noticed the same thing with Brian Johnson, too.

In my opinion the way axl sang in the 80s & 90s when he was in his 20s/30s was not necessarily conducive for someone in his 50s/60s. If we are to get a new album of material I will be very curious to see if there is a different style that won't be as taxing on his vocal chords. Age effects us all in different ways

[ITARocker]

I have always been confused why it changed so much when he was not touring at all from 1994-1999. You'd think any damage would be done on tour, and be evident by the end of it. But he sounded possibly the best he ever has in 1993 on the Skin N Bones leg. Why would it change when he is at rest? I've noticed the same thing with Brian Johnson, too.

If u listen to his voice from 1991 to 1993 he was gettin thinner and cleaner already, with much less "vibrato" (if we can call it this way) and a more nasal sounding voice.

Then he had probably vocal cords surgery, after 1994. Plus i think he had something done (nose-teeth) that changed his enunciation. After surgery he had to re-learn again how to sing in a sustainable way. ANd even without surgery, he'd had to do that...
The rasp in 2006 and 2010, after the "clean voice" years was really good BUT very different at the same time.

He has been using falsetto since 2018 (he lasted a little after the ac dc tour, but that clearly destroyed his voice again) very far from the early 2000s years (where he had good breath sustain and volume), but now he struggles even with that technique.

In any case the voice doesn't need to rest, on the opposite you need to keep your voice trained with a proper technique. If u don't do shit for years, your voice shut down. We are not made for singing, it's like when u leave the gym: you lose your muscles cause we aren't built for having muscles..

[Carlos Gunner]

I have always been confused why it changed so much when he was not touring at all from 1994-1999. You'd think any damage would be done on tour, and be evident by the end of it. But he sounded possibly the best he ever has in 1993 on the Skin N Bones leg. Why would it change when he is at rest? I've noticed the same thing with Brian Johnson, too.

If u listen to his voice from 1991 to 1993 he was gettin thinner and cleaner already, with much less "vibrato" (if we can call it this way) and a more nasal sounding voice.

Then he had probably vocal cords surgery, after 1994. Plus i think he had something done (nose-teeth) that changed his enunciation. After surgery he had to re-learn again how to sing in a sustainable way. ANd even without surgery, he'd had to do that...
The rasp in 2006 and 2010, after the "clean voice" years was really good BUT very different at the same time.

He has been using falsetto since 2018 (he lasted a little after the ac dc tour, but that clearly destroyed his voice again) very far from the early 2000s years (where he had good breath sustain and volume), but now he struggles even with that technique.

In any case the voice doesn't need to rest, on the opposite you need to keep your voice trained with a proper technique. If u don't do shit for years, your voice shut down. We are not made for singing, it's like when u leave the gym: you lose your muscles cause we aren't built for having muscles..

This I like.

[pilferk]

I have always been confused why it changed so much when he was not touring at all from 1994-1999. You'd think any damage would be done on tour, and be evident by the end of it. But he sounded possibly the best he ever has in 1993 on the Skin N Bones leg. Why would it change when he is at rest? I've noticed the same thing with Brian Johnson, too.

I'm not his doctor (or a doctor) so none of this should be taken as diagnostic, or any sort of assessment of his ACTUAL vocal condition. I'm just spitballing.

Spasmodic dysphonia and/or scarring of the vocal folds could result in permanent damage.  Both are not really great candidates for positive surgical outcomes, and both are considered relatively permanent.

Long story short: There are actually vocal conditions that do not get better with rest (but get better through repeated use).  There are also vocal conditions that are permanent, and are just never going to get appreciably better, and don't have a lot of good treatment options to lessen their impact.

[PermissionToLand]

Long story short: There are actually vocal conditions that do not get better with rest (but get better through repeated use). 

This seems counterintuitive to me. What would be an example of that?

[pilferk]

This seems counterintuitive to me. What would be an example of that?

You would think, but, like with muscles, sometimes you need PT (which means targeted, regular, use) and sometimes you need rest. Both are valid treatment, but for different conditions. Without a diagnosis, you just don't know which one is the more apt form of treatment for the condition.

There are several vocal cord paralysis conditions that actually get worse if you don't use your voice. And sometimes extended vocal rest, without re-acclimating your voice to regular use, can actually be the CAUSE of vocal damage. It's not ALWAYS about rest.  It just depends on what's actually wrong.

Now, OVERUSE is never good.  But overuse is largely defined by what your vocal cords are used to, what they're capable of, and pushing beyond those bounds..

[D-GenerationX]

It's hit or miss these days.

Will always sound better in the building than it will on a bootleg live.  In his prime, you didn't have that distinction.  The bootlegs all sound great.  Look at the 1992 Las Vegas show they just put out in the UYI boxset.  That's Axl Rose.

Frankly, it's been hit or miss since the disastrous 2002 tour.  Just different levels of different.  But obviously does not hold a candle to his vocals from 1992/93.

The year I can't figure out is 2006.  He sounded AWESOME that year.  Did not sound all that different from his prime.  Not sure what summoned that up, or why it was never remotely sustained after that one year.

[PermissionToLand]

In 2009 and early 2010 he sounded great as well. That's why I think his voice needs rest to recover. Also, look at 2016 versus today, or even 2018. He always seems to sound the best after a break.

Street of Dreams Osaka 2009:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzOCrSAHs3U

The only exception is 2000, which I think probably had more to do with getting nodules removed so he couldn't go raspy.

[D-GenerationX]

That's a great point.  Those 4 shows in December 2009 are excellent.

[willow]

I think he does a lot of work to get what he does. Some nights are better than others. Frankly I am proud of him for getting up there night after night and giving it everything he has. I remember when I first heard them, and I commented to my cousin I didn't want to get hooked on them because Axl's voice would be shot by the time, he was 30. lol Got hooked anyway and he is still up there giving it everything he has. Much respect!!

[ITARocker]

In 2009 and early 2010 he sounded great as well. That's why I think his voice needs rest to recover. Also, look at 2016 versus today, or even 2018. He always seems to sound the best after a break.

Street of Dreams Osaka 2009:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzOCrSAHs3U

The only exception is 2000, which I think probably had more to do with getting nodules removed so he couldn't go raspy.

I think u are missing a big point: he can even rest for 5 years. But at that point he would be almost 70 years old... It doesn't matter if it gets a little better than before for some shows...he gonna be worse in any case. ANd then you gonna say oh, but he's almost 70 years old, probably he needs some rest...Man, it doesn't work that way.
He kept wasting years and here we are. That's the only truth. You can't buy time, sadly.

[D-GenerationX]

I think he does a lot of work to get what he does. Some nights are better than others. Frankly I am proud of him for getting up there night after night and giving it everything he has. I remember when I first heard them, and I commented to my cousin I didn't want to get hooked on them because Axl's voice would be shot by the time, he was 30. lol Got hooked anyway and he is still up there giving it everything he has. Much respect!!

Honestly, I'm more excited that he seems happy onstage for the first time in his life and the band conducts themselves in a 100% professional manner.

Do I prefer the 1992 vocals, in a vacuum?  Sure do.  But things don't exist in a vacuum.  To get the 1992 vocals, you have to put up with all his bullshit of that era too.  Don't miss all that even a little bit.

Life is often a trade off.  This is ours, as fans of this often maddening band.

[D-GenerationX]

Just as aside, I live in Philly.  Hershey is not *that* far, but I generally need you to come to my town.  No matter who you are.

But have a good friend who, while not a GNR superfan like we are does liek the band a lot.  And this is a guy that goes to like to 30-40 concerts a year.  So he is no novice.

He said the show was great.  I did ask about Axl's vocals.  He said a few rough spots, but the band (Axl included) had some much energy up there, that neither he (nor anyone) cared about a few iffy vocals at times.

[AXLRIVERS]

Not that it matters but il participate ha. I actually loved his vocals circa 2006 to 2010. Even going back to '93 those vocals stated to get a bit too much for me....I dnt know what the word is but just too over screamy or over raspy to point of it being too much and overly forced. But maybe the overlong tour was too blame.
2006 -2010 was the perfect mix for me. That Rock am Ring gig and those new York shows where the pinnacle I felt. . But hey it's not 2006 anymore. As DX says man they alll look happy and healthy. That's way more important.

[Axlfreek]

Axl killed it during his time in Ac/Dc. I think his time with the band may have ended his classic voice. He gave his all out of respect for the band I believe. At the end of the day nobody really knows.

[Axlfreek]

https://youtu.be/CFSxi96o43Q?si=RfVjxWJxdMBOe9_0

He hasn’t sounded like this since 2006 and hasn’t sounded the same since.
Still puts on a great show I believe.

[GNR4LIFEJD]

Does anybody know if Axl still smokes? He was obviously a smoker back in the 80/90s. I haven't seen any photos of him in the last few years of him smoking so maybe he quit but pending on how long he did smoke maybe that had some long term effects when it comes to vocals. Completely speculating on my part.

[C0ma]

Does anybody know if Axl still smokes? He was obviously a smoker back in the 80/90s. I haven't seen any photos of him in the last few years of him smoking so maybe he quit but pending on how long he did smoke maybe that had some long term effects when it comes to vocals. Completely speculating on my part.

I think he still smokes cigars, based on semi recent pictures, at least more recent than anything with a cigarette. If you've watched any recent Metallica videos, James has a sort of pre-show ritual where he smokes a cigar while prepping... and James' voice is arguably better now then ever before, so I would think that has much less impact than the cigarette smoking (on singing not on overall health).

[PermissionToLand]

It's often said that smoking creates a raspy voice, but I question whether that's actually true or just an old wives tale.

[ITARocker]

It's often said that smoking creates a raspy voice, but I question whether that's actually true or just an old wives tale.

I think It can affect vocal cords and general breathing so your voice sounds deeper and raspier because of the damage, the catarrh production and they heavy breathing. But we are talking about severe damage to the speaking voice and your breathing capabilities. When you have to sing it affects badly your breath sustain and power and the eventual rasp you can add with some technique it sounds more irregular and weak than powerful.

The main difference with cigarettes is that when u smoke cigars you don't inhale so it will affect mainly the upper part of the respiratory system, never forgetting in any case that the saliva still goes down to the stomach (creating gastric reflux). Another thing with cigars is that u don't chain smoke.

And don't underestimate alchol: spirits dry out the throat and create gastric reflux which damage vocal cords too.

[PermissionToLand]

I was watching a vocal coach react to Axl recently on Youtube and he said Axl was using falsetto for all the high notes, and that's why it sounds so quiet. He assumed Axl must have been doing that because he was recovering from a vocal injury or sickness.

[ITARocker]

I was watching a vocal coach react to Axl recently on Youtube and he said Axl was using falsetto for all the high notes, and that's why it sounds so quiet. He assumed Axl must have been doing that because he was recovering from a vocal injury or sickness.

Well, he's been using falsetto for at least 5 years and not only for high notes, as "perhaps" shows us. It's not a "recover", his voice is done. If he needed a recover i highly doubt he would keep touring forever. The ac dc thing probably destroyed his voice, and the sad part is that the ac dc fans didn't even appreciate it. And it's even sadder if you think he never pushed that hard for gnr in the new century.
He's unlucky that his falsetto is weak and not beautiful at all, cause many singers use it with good results. But you know, you can't change magically the timbre of your voice. You can see he's slimming down, doing something to help is general health (voice included) like in 2006. But 20 years has gone by, it's not going to work again, I think we are at the point of no return: It's not gettin better so the faster you get use to it the better.

[C0ma]

I was watching a vocal coach react to Axl recently on Youtube and he said Axl was using falsetto for all the high notes, and that's why it sounds so quiet. He assumed Axl must have been doing that because he was recovering from a vocal injury or sickness.

Well, he's been using falsetto for at least 5 years and not only for high notes, as "perhaps" shows us. It's not a "recover", his voice is done. If he needed a recover i highly doubt he would keep touring forever. The ac dc thing probably destroyed his voice, and the sad part is that the ac dc fans didn't even appreciate it. And it's even sadder if you think he never pushed that hard for gnr in the new century.
He's unlucky that his falsetto is weak and not beautiful at all, cause many singers use it with good results. But you know, you can't change magically the timbre of your voice. You can see he's slimming down, doing something to help is general health (voice included) like in 2006. But 20 years has gone by, it's not going to work again, I think we are at the point of no return: It's not gettin better so the faster you get use to it the better.

The in person experience certainly skews perspective slightly... however, I was at each of the last two Fenway Park shows in Boston. In this last one I thought some of his typically weaker songs sound much much better even in comparison to the live performance there in 2021. He has more power and there is more rasp in places and less 'Mickey Mouse'... NOW yes, the man is 61 and for years didn't really care for his instrument in the best way, so this is never going to be 1988 or even 2006 again, but take it for what it is... an AMAZING live show.

I need to look in the mirror on what I'm about to say because I was in the same 'camp'... in 2006 when he was in the best shape he'd been in years and was singing at the top of his game... everyone was focused on where Slash and Duff were... complaining about how Fink looked, why Bumble and not Bucket... etc... everyone is focused on complaining about every little detail.

It's 2023... Axl, Slash, and Duff have been touring since 2016, every leg we get additions to the live set, there have been 3 'new' tracks, Videos, Concert Footage, AFD Box, UYI Box... I mean think about what it was like from 1995-2006 (the 2002 failed tour not withstanding)... you finally had regular shows but were still 2 years away from an album and the Dr Pepper disaster. If 1999 me heard me complain as much as I did, and most of us do, he would slap the shit out of me when he sees the gluttony of stuff we have gotten since 2016.

***Edited to add the last part is a generalization added on and not a direct response to the ITARocker quote... just wanted to clear that up

[PermissionToLand]

Well, he's been using falsetto for at least 5 years and not only for high notes, as "perhaps" shows us. It's not a "recover", his voice is done. If he needed a recover i highly doubt he would keep touring forever. The ac dc thing probably destroyed his voice, and the sad part is that the ac dc fans didn't even appreciate it. And it's even sadder if you think he never pushed that hard for gnr in the new century.
He's unlucky that his falsetto is weak and not beautiful at all, cause many singers use it with good results. But you know, you can't change magically the timbre of your voice. You can see he's slimming down, doing something to help is general health (voice included) like in 2006. But 20 years has gone by, it's not going to work again, I think we are at the point of no return: It's not gettin better so the faster you get use to it the better.

I wouldn't be so sure. He used his full voice with rasp on that Looney Tunes song recorded in 2019. I think he's doing it to save his voice for the studio.

[ITARocker]

Well, he's been using falsetto for at least 5 years and not only for high notes, as "perhaps" shows us. It's not a "recover", his voice is done. If he needed a recover i highly doubt he would keep touring forever. The ac dc thing probably destroyed his voice, and the sad part is that the ac dc fans didn't even appreciate it. And it's even sadder if you think he never pushed that hard for gnr in the new century.
He's unlucky that his falsetto is weak and not beautiful at all, cause many singers use it with good results. But you know, you can't change magically the timbre of your voice. You can see he's slimming down, doing something to help is general health (voice included) like in 2006. But 20 years has gone by, it's not going to work again, I think we are at the point of no return: It's not gettin better so the faster you get use to it the better.

I wouldn't be so sure. He used his full voice with rasp on that Looney Tunes song recorded in 2019. I think he's doing it to save his voice for the studio.

True, but that's a different animal. In studio u can take your time (hours for a 3 minutes song), cut and copy takes etc. And, like in the case of the song you're talking about, u can actually take a soft kind of voice and and pump it up. If u listen carefully at the song, he's not that he's screaming at the top of his lunges. It's a raspy falsetto more than his old style raspy masked voice. It sounds good btw. Technology helps, so i won't be surpised if we will have an album with raspy voice everywhere. But live it won't sound that way and not by choice. You really think he's saving his voice for a studio album to be called mickey mouse by everybody? If he saved his voice for all the albums he made, he would probably sound like prime Pavarotti with 0 efforts even in live shows.

[PermissionToLand]

True, but that's a different animal. In studio u can take your time (hours for a 3 minutes song), cut and copy takes etc. And, like in the case of the song you're talking about, u can actually take a soft kind of voice and and pump it up. If u listen carefully at the song, he's not that he's screaming at the top of his lunges. It's a raspy falsetto more than his old style raspy masked voice. It sounds good btw. Technology helps, so i won't be surpised if we will have an album with raspy voice everywhere. But live it won't sound that way and not by choice. You really think he's saving his voice for a studio album to be called mickey mouse by everybody? If he saved his voice for all the albums he made, he would probably sound like prime Pavarotti with 0 efforts even in live shows.

There's no such thing as a raspy falsetto. And he never was screaming at the top of his lungs. He sang in a way to give the impression that he was, but that's not actually how you sing.

Yes, he has to save his voice in order to continue having a career. It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other; he's sparing his rasp live so that he can save his voice but also still give some of the experience people expect at live shows.

[ITARocker]

True, but that's a different animal. In studio u can take your time (hours for a 3 minutes song), cut and copy takes etc. And, like in the case of the song you're talking about, u can actually take a soft kind of voice and and pump it up. If u listen carefully at the song, he's not that he's screaming at the top of his lunges. It's a raspy falsetto more than his old style raspy masked voice. It sounds good btw. Technology helps, so i won't be surpised if we will have an album with raspy voice everywhere. But live it won't sound that way and not by choice. You really think he's saving his voice for a studio album to be called mickey mouse by everybody? If he saved his voice for all the albums he made, he would probably sound like prime Pavarotti with 0 efforts even in live shows.

There's no such thing as a raspy falsetto. And he never was screaming at the top of his lungs. He sang in a way to give the impression that he was, but that's not actually how you sing.

Yes, he has to save his voice in order to continue having a career. It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other; he's sparing his rasp live so that he can save his voice but also still give some of the experience people expect at live shows.

You can use raspy falsetto 100%, while singin falsetto u close the vestibular folds and with a little addition of air u obtain the sound. It's like a vocal fry but on a higher tone. U can add rasp in many ways, everywhere. When i'm referring to his screaming ,I know he's not screaming (with the exception of his oversingin) i'm referring to his masked voice (pharyngeal voice) that is more demanding. He's not saving his voice at all, cause when he tries to push his voice (and he tries a lot) he can't do what he want (he cannot do the chorus of hard school, he struggles with the high part of perhaps and so on...). Plus if people say he's giving his 100% as a justification for his performances, it means that they notice that he's really trying and he's not saving, and then they start the"he's 60 years old" litany. Listen to a 2016 jungle (which was one of the few he could sing well at the time) and 2023 jungle. It's like he's lost a lung. When carrie underwood joisn the stage axl disappears not because he's saving, but because his voice has no texture anymore.

[SkeletorSerpent]

Axl could have used his low bass and mid register his entire career and still would have been considered one of the top 3, top 5 hard rock vocalists of all time. IF he desired, he could have built an entire career on nothing but his low and mid register vocals and still would have been one of the greatest to ever do it. It's a testament to not only his five octave range, but the warmth and soul of his timbre and the uniqueness of his tone.
As I've said many times on this board, Axl has an intimacy and closeness in his vocals that are more reminiscent of the great R & B singers, classic outlaw country singers, and blues singers than he does with standard hard rock singers. He's more Willie Nelson, Joe Cocker, George Jones, Bob Seger, Janis Joplin, Sister Rosetta than he is Bruce Dickinson, Dio, Halford, Mercury.

That being said, Axl's lower register is just as impressive, emotionally stirring, stunning, mesmerizing, and moving as his highest register. He could have an entire "second career" over the next 10-20 years using just his natural singing voice. He has nothing left to prove. When he wants to, his vocals can be velvet, silk, and butter like any of the best crooners.
He still manages to share his soul with his audience; he can communicate utter rage, nihilistic angst, and demonic fury in his vocals, and then turn on a dime, and break your heart with his tenderness, brokenness, and sadness.

In other words, Axl could use the twilight of his career to show off his unparalleled bass vocals in the same way he spent the past 35 years blowing us away with his unrivaled high notes.

I'm excited for the future of GNR. I think Axl has so much more left in the tank, and so much more music to offer the world. His legacy isn't done, yet.
I think we all need to get ready to be shocked by Axl Rose. With his generational vocal range, soul, and tone, anything is possible vocally. Again, he has another good 10-15 years to produce legitimate, relevant rock n roll music.

As proof, here is Axl singing Estranged in his mid register. Fucking brilliant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q1o187Dw8A