Street Team/Gnr status update

[Nacho Man Randy Salsa]

Thanks Mysteron.Reliable as always.

Possibly the start of that 2 and a half year tour we heard from Rikki Rachman?

[Will]

Thanks for the heads up, Mysteron. That's always appreciated. I don't think Sanctuary will be able to stop the GH CD (we're talking like 10 days before the European release) but that's good to know the band is still together!

[Smoke]

I think you have a better chance of getting struck by lightening than you do going to a Guns gig.  And you have even a better chance of dying from that lightening bolt than Guns showing up.

Probably not  

Well, all that is left to do is just wait and in a few days we will find out a lot of info regarding what is going to happen with the future.  Till then I will be on the edge of my seat.  Nervous as hell  

[Crowebar]

Crowebar would like to believe this is true but isn't prepared to get his hopes up at this time.


My heart has been broken too many times.


I'll take a wait and see approach.


Thanks for the info though Mysteron!!!

Im very dissapointed Crowe.. where was your legendary infamous puke?

Well, Suki kind of got mad at me the other day because she felt I was overusing the puking smiley.  

 


But, just for you GunnerDownUnder, I officially [puke] all over this whole thread untill the real truth is known!!!

 

Uhhh.....


Thank you, thank ya' very much. [bow]

[axe]

I am as much a hardcore GNR fan as anyone on this board and I own all the albums, both on vinyl and on cd, but I still would like to see the Greatest Hits coming out. I would even buy it. Actually, I'm very much looking forward to buying it.

I understand where Axl's coming from with all this old band - new band thing, and that all the promotion should be for the new and not the old. But the truth is that the band's name is still the same so promoting the old is promoting the new guys, too.

The GH is not for me, it's not for you, it's not for any of us on this board. It's for the "new people", the ones who are not hardcore fans but who know Welcome To The Jungle and November Rain. They don't have the albums and they won't buy the albums. They are not willing to learn the brilliance of Coma or appreciate Right Next Door To Hell to get that damn November Rain. But many of them will buy the GH because they get all the songs they like in one package. I know I have done the greatest hits thing with bands that I'm not that obsessed with but who have a couple of decent songs. I'm sure most of you have done that too.

Promoting the old songs is promoting the new album. The GH tracklist is too "easy" and not too "deep" for us, but it's perfect for those who don't know that much of GNR in the first place. They will pick it up because of the biggest hits, learn that it's a good band with good songs that go even further than just those basic hits that they already knows and when Chinese Democracy hits the store a month or two later, maybe they'll give it a try.

We are a very minor group amongst all the possible record buyers. We are anticipating Chinese Democracy, but the majority of people aren't. There are lots of people that would look at CD in the store, have vague idea who and what the band is, and then put it aside and buy something they know better. The band vanished from the public 10 years ago. Everyone is not reading the GNR pages on the web, everyone is not reading even the magazines with their "What ever happened to Axl Rose?" articles. These are people who were like 10 when GNR were big and not all of them really knew about the band even then, let alone now. Now they're in their twenties with money and a desire to listen to good music. And they know Paradise City when they hear it. And they know WTTJ. But still they should be taught who the band behind those songs is.

That's where the Greatest Hits fits nicely.

And this could be in another thread....

[Mysteron]

Without sounding disrespectful. Can I ask what relationship you have with the band. Are you a friend of Axl's. Or do you know people on GNR infamous inner circle. The only reason I ask is that everyone treats every word you say as the absolute truth. I have no problem with this and if you have the inside track then great I wish I was you. For my own benefit can you tell me where you get you info from.
 Thanks

I am not anyone special, and I personally have no direct relationship with Guns n'roses. As I have explained before, I have family members who are musicians, and friends who are influential people in the music industry. I'm just seeded that way. And although I have done some work in the music industry, mainly favors etc, I actually work in a totally different industry sector  

Anyway, get back on topic now  

[Bahad]

Stopping GH seems impossible with 10 days remaining to release. Good to hear them touring again. Mysteron do u know anything about the tour promoting? I think CC will not again.

Thanx for the info.

[pilferk]

i don't understand all the hate towards the label.

axl HAS all the power to stop the GH!!!!!

just turn over CD and give them the ok to release it!

then there would be no GH.

Well, that was/is the theory.  I certainly haven't seen that confirmed anywhere, by anyone remotely "official".  You sorta state it as fact....and it very well may not be.

[Ignatius]

Does it have to be this difficult?

I've never seen so many obstacles in the process of releasing a fucking album. Legal battles, Label dsiputes, band members departures, cancelled gigs...shit, GNR should be covered on a "Law and Order" episode. Shit, they could even have enough material for the entire season.

I'm not a lawyer, not a label shark, not an insider. I'm just a fan. Are these records ( the Greatest hits/ Chinese democracy as well) done for the fans or done to fill up the lawyers, labels, management pockets? Why are so many interests? Why does it look like this band is not a people's band anymore?

So the band are still together. Together meaning the current members still receive their monthly paychecks? I don't see them together. Tommy, Dizzy, BH, Brain...they all touring...solo!!! They are all updating their solo sites and having a blast touring in front of 400 people. Shit, I wish they were half as enthusiastic when they talk about GNR.

As for the GH release, it's just another brick in the wall. Another legal battle, another label-management dispute. They will eventually reach an agreement so both parts are happy, but how'bout the fans? Do we want that (GH) album? Do we need al this legal nonsense bullshit?It seems to me that the label/managemnt/band don't really give a fuck about the fans. However, at the end of the day, how will fill their pockets with loads of money?

[pilferk]

I doubt they can stop the GH now. As you can see here
http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3801671159&category=60738 , promotional ads have already been sent to the media. This particular ad says that there will be 40 commercials of 30 or 20 seconds on four French TV channels, two of which are big. It probably means that those commercial slots have already been bought, so I don't see the record company cancelling everything  

Again, allow me to reinterate: Cancelling and being compelled to remove CD via court order are completely different animals.  I agree...the label isn't going to cancel GH, of their own accord, come hell or high water at this point.  However, a court issued injuction, telling them they CAN'T sell GH, regardless of promotional expenses already incurred, would.  You can't "choose" whether or not to obey an injunction.....

[sandman]

i don't understand all the hate towards the label.

axl HAS all the power to stop the GH!!!!!

just turn over CD and give them the ok to release it!

then there would be no GH.

Well, that was/is the theory.  I certainly haven't seen that confirmed anywhere, by anyone remotely "official".  You sorta state it as fact....and it very well may not be.

you're right, that is just speculation on my part....partly based on rumors started by others on this board that there was a threat given to axl - release CD (in 6 months?) or we release GH.

and i think most people would agree that my point is probably true.

true or not, i still do not understand the anger towards the label.....they have been more than patient with their investment in CD. and where has it gotten them? in the hole a couple million.

[pilferk]

Are these records ( the Greatest hits/ Chinese democracy as well) done for the fans or done to fill up the lawyers, labels, management pockets?

Ummm...unfortunately for us, all of the above.....

[pilferk]

i don't understand all the hate towards the label.

axl HAS all the power to stop the GH!!!!!

just turn over CD and give them the ok to release it!

then there would be no GH.

Well, that was/is the theory.  I certainly haven't seen that confirmed anywhere, by anyone remotely "official".  You sorta state it as fact....and it very well may not be.

you're right, that is just speculation on my part....partly based on rumors started by others on this board that there was a threat given to axl - release CD (in 6 months?) or we release GH.

and i think most people would agree that my point is probably true.

true or not, i still do not understand the anger towards the label.....they have been more than patient with their investment in CD. and where has it gotten them? in the hole a couple million.

I think the anger is routed not just in GnR's dealings with the labels, but in the overall way labels do business.  Trust me when I say that the labels "patience" isn't remotely altruistic.  The "patience" is motivated, I'm sure, by the bushels and bushels of money they think will be made from release of CD...just like the release of GH is motivated purely by greed....by their wanting to "cash in".  That overall pattern of greed over consumer satisfaction, or artist "rights", is something that has been evidenced over the past 20 years...and I think the growing dissatisfaction with their standard "modus operandi" fuels the anger in this case, as well.

I think most of us realize that music is a business.  But there are certainly very different ways to run a business, and the record labels (and there is plenty of evidence out their to suppor this, FYI, though I'm not going to provide examples..others may) seem to choose the smarmiest, nastiest, most foul way to conduct business.  Essentially, the artists get screwed, the fans get screwed, and the labels make billions....

[sandman]

the ONLY negative to releasing the GH is that it might piss off axl a little bit.

but who the hell cares if axl gets pissed off a little?? and don't tell me that if he's pissed it will delay CD. the label has bent over backwards for him for years and look where that has gotten them.....NO WHERE!

i think it's about time they played hard ball.

and all axl has to do is let it be known that he is 100% against the GH. it'll be good publicity and he'll even gain some sympathy in the public eye.

[sandman]

i don't understand all the hate towards the label.

axl HAS all the power to stop the GH!!!!!

just turn over CD and give them the ok to release it!

then there would be no GH.

Well, that was/is the theory.  I certainly haven't seen that confirmed anywhere, by anyone remotely "official".  You sorta state it as fact....and it very well may not be.

you're right, that is just speculation on my part....partly based on rumors started by others on this board that there was a threat given to axl - release CD (in 6 months?) or we release GH.

and i think most people would agree that my point is probably true.

true or not, i still do not understand the anger towards the label.....they have been more than patient with their investment in CD. and where has it gotten them? in the hole a couple million.

I think the anger is routed not just in GnR's dealings with the labels, but in the overall way labels do business.  Trust me when I say that the labels "patience" isn't remotely altruistic.  The "patience" is motivated, I'm sure, by the bushels and bushels of money they think will be made from release of CD...just like the release of GH is motivated purely by greed....by their wanting to "cash in".  That overall pattern of greed over consumer satisfaction, or artist "rights", is something that has been evidenced over the past 20 years...and I think the growing dissatisfaction with their standard "modus operandi" fuels the anger in this case, as well.

I think most of us realize that music is a business.  But there are certainly very different ways to run a business, and the record labels (and there is plenty of evidence out their to suppor this, FYI, though I'm not going to provide examples..others may) seem to choose the smarmiest, nastiest, most foul way to conduct business.  Essentially, the artists get screwed, the fans get screwed, and the labels make billions....

of course there's greed in business ("greed is good...." WS).

and it sucks that fans get screwed.

but this is NOT an example of a record label screwing anybody over.

[pilferk]

"the ONLY negative to releasing the GH is that it might piss off axl a little bit. "

Maybe, maybe not.  It's certainly going to garner ill will with the fans toward the label.  Whether that ill will has any effect is debateable.  From the sounds of the email being described from Sanctuary, it's not "it may delay CD", it's "it WILL delay CD".  I'd say that's certainly a negative.  It also may lead to an extended legal battle between GnR and the label...and that's not good for anybody (not GnR, not the fans, and not the label) and COULD lead to a breech of contract judgement, on one side or the other, which could not only delay CD, but wipe it off the map for 20 years or so (when the vaults open up).  Obviously, not being a direct party to any of the goings-on, I'm making some drastic assumptions, but I think it's grossly oversimplifying things to say "the ONLY negative to releasing the GH is that it might piss off axl a little bit".  I think the scenario you present is actually the BEST case scenario..and I hope that's all that happens if GH is released.

[pilferk]

"of course there's greed in business ("greed is good...." WS).

and it sucks that fans get screwed.

but this is NOT an example of a record label screwing anybody over."

It's not?  How do you figure.

Axl and GnR get screwed because they don't approve of the GH.  

Axl and GnR get screwed because, due to the song selection, their cut of the album sales is going to be VERY, VERY small.

Axl and GnR get screwed because the GH could very well lower the sales on their existing catalog, where their royalty rates are much higher.

The fans get screwed because it delays CD.

The fans get screwed AGAIN because they're "bilked" out of their 15 bucks for a compilation CD with nothing new.

Sure looks like an awful lot of screwing going to me....

[sandman]

"the ONLY negative to releasing the GH is that it might piss off axl a little bit. "

Maybe, maybe not.  It's certainly going to garner ill will with the fans toward the label.  Whether that ill will has any effect is debateable.  From the sounds of the email being described from Sanctuary, it's not "it may delay CD", it's "it WILL delay CD".  I'd say that's certainly a negative.  It also may lead to an extended legal battle between GnR and the label...and that's not good for anybody (not GnR, not the fans, and not the label) and COULD lead to a breech of contract judgement, on one side or the other, which could not only delay CD, but wipe it off the map for 20 years or so (when the vaults open up).  Obviously, not being a direct party to any of the goings-on, I'm making some drastic assumptions, but I think it's grossly oversimplifying things to say "the ONLY negative to releasing the GH is that it might piss off axl a little bit".  I think the scenario you present is actually the BEST case scenario..and I hope that's all that happens if GH is released.

every one of your "drastic assumptions" would be axl's doing......which would stem from "axl getting pissed off".

and if he wants to take that far....he's an asshole.

and maybe he will blow things out of proportion like you suggest. maybe he wants an excuse NOT to release the album.

[sandman]

"of course there's greed in business ("greed is good...." WS).

and it sucks that fans get screwed.

but this is NOT an example of a record label screwing anybody over."

It's not?  How do you figure.

Axl and GnR get screwed because they don't approve of the GH.  

Axl and GnR get screwed because, due to the song selection, their cut of the album sales is going to be VERY, VERY small.

Axl and GnR get screwed because the GH could very well lower the sales on their existing catalog, where their royalty rates are much higher.

The fans get screwed because it delays CD.

The fans get screwed AGAIN because they're "bilked" out of their 15 bucks for a compilation CD with nothing new.

Sure looks like an awful lot of screwing going to me....

i think your comments are ridiculous.

- axl has already screwed the label
- the song selection is a matter of opinion (i think the selection does maximize sales....it's a "commercial" list)
- i could argue catalog sales will increase since more people will be turned on to gnr
- CD being delayed is 100% axl's call
- i'm a fan and i have the choice NOT to buy CD

the ball is in axl's court.
it has always been in axl's court.
and it always will be in axl's court.

if and when CD comes out, and how gnr fans get treated is totally up to him.

[pilferk]

"every one of your "drastic assumptions" would be axl's doing......which would stem from "axl getting pissed off".

and if he wants to take that far....he's an asshole.

and maybe he will blow things out of proportion like you suggest. maybe he wants an excuse NOT to release the album. "

Again, that's a gross oversimplification.  I would argue that the label is just as much to blame for all of my drastic assumptions, since they could have avoided any chance of them by NOT releasing GH...something they know Axl/GnR didn't want.  It takes two to tango, as it were.

As for the other arguments, I guess it all falls down to why you assume Axl wants to stop GH.  If, in fact, it's just because he doesn't agree with the label promoting the old band over the new band, then I tend to agree.  That's a bit childish.  However, if it's a matter of contractual rights OR a matter of the material not being what Axl considers to be GnR's best..well, that's different.

I also would venture that protecting what he thinks (and his lawyers would have to agree) are his contractual rights/artistic rights doesn't make him an asshole.  It makes him a smart businessman.  Trust me when I say that the label, if IT'S rights within the contract were being violated, would do the same thing.

Now, as to the question of him "blowing things out of proportion", I guess that's a question of perspective.  I think that if his interpretation of his rights to the material is correct, and he's not just fuming mad because he doesn't want people thinking of Slash when they think of GnR, then he has every right to protect GnR any way he sees fit.  He has to...GnR is his livelyhood, it's not the labels.  To the label, GnR is just one more tree, in a whole damn forest, to pluck apples from...someone has to be the one looking out for the well being of GnR.